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Salsero_AT
11-04-2003, 05:35 AM
Hi everyone !

A quick question: What is a pretzel ? Perhaps i know the move but not under that name. Could you please give a short description ?

Thanks :)
borikensalsero
11-04-2003, 08:39 AM
The way I look at a pretzel is; any complicated combo pattern. If there is such name for a move, I have no idea.
Spitfire
11-04-2003, 09:30 AM
I do have a description, but I'm not sure if the Salsa pretzel is like the one used in swing. :?
DanceMentor
11-04-2003, 09:34 AM
There are 2 forms: the man's pretzel and the woman's pretzel

The women's pretzel an start with a sweetheart. The you turn her 1.5 times until she is facing you and her right hand is out to her side and her left hand is behind her back (call this position 2). The you pass behind her and come thru under her left arm. This position looks just like position 1 except you are on her left side instead of her right. Then turn her to her right until she is in position 1 again. If you reverse this it is called the Reverse Pretzel.

The man's pretzel is just like the women's pretzel but the roles are reversed. Usually the man will start with a 2-hand hold and then turn to his right until he is facing his partner with his left hand behing his back and his right hand out to the side. Then the lady passes behind him like above. Then he turn until he is in position 1 again. This one is also reversible.

That make 4 pretzels total. Now all we need is some mustard! :lol:
DanceMentor
11-04-2003, 09:35 AM
Yes, as Spitfire noted, the description I used is from my knowledge of swing, but these patterns can also be used in whole or in part in salsa.
Spitfire
11-04-2003, 09:40 AM
And I didn't know that the pretzel was used in Salsa. I actually learned it as a beginner years ago though it is regarded as a more intermediate to advanced move.
Spitfire
11-04-2003, 09:50 AM
Hi everyone !

A quick question: What is a pretzel ? Perhaps i know the move but not under that name. Could you please give a short description ?

Thanks :)

Ok, this page has a video clip which demonstares the pretzel as it is done in swing:

http://www.brown.edu/Students/Swing_Club/videos.html

Appreciate any comments on how this may differ from what is done in Salsa. :)
Sagitta
11-04-2003, 10:31 AM
I have done the pretzel in merengue, but I have never done it with salsa! I find it easy to adapt all my swing moves to merengue. I too would like a description of how it differs, if any, when done in salsa. I would imagine it would differ as in ECS it is done in 18 beats, 3 x 6 count basic, while in salsa we have a 4 count basic.
Salsero_AT
11-04-2003, 11:17 AM
Ok, this page has a video clip which demonstares the pretzel as it is done in swing:

Aaaahh ! I recognize it ! :D I know it from Casino where this is the main part of a figure called "Setenta y Cinco" (75). In the Casino version you go under the ladies arm on 567, and then turn the arms on 123 and 567.

Thanks for the video :)
Spitfire
11-04-2003, 11:28 AM
Ok, this page has a video clip which demonstares the pretzel as it is done in swing:

Aaaahh ! I recognize it ! :D I know it from Casino where this is the main part of a figure called "Setenta y Cinco" (75). In the Casino version you go under the ladies arm on 567, and then turn the arms on 123 and 567.

Thanks for the video :)

I'll have to try it in Salsa.
brujo
11-04-2003, 06:20 PM
I always thought pretzels were complicated arm patterns that involve a lot of wrapping and twisting.

Something like the moves in Salsa a la cubana (http://salsaville.com/salc/video_clips/SALC-4_online_clip_small.wmv)
DanceMentor
11-04-2003, 06:45 PM
That Salsa a la cubana is a one-man show. He is REALLY good, but I'm not sure how showing where the women fits in. :D
brujo
11-04-2003, 06:48 PM
That Salsa a la cubana is a one-man show. He is REALLY good, but I'm not sure how showing where the women fits in. :D

It's a difference in styles. In casino, the man normally shows off more. This is in contrast to NY/LA, where the woman is the focus. The woman would mark the timing so he could improvise. For myself, I think salsa and casino strikes a perfect balance, if you do 50% casino moves and 50% salsa moves, you both end up showing off...
youngsta
11-04-2003, 06:50 PM
I always thought pretzels were complicated arm patterns that involve a lot of wrapping and twisting.

Something like the moves in Salsa a la cubana (http://salsaville.com/salc/video_clips/SALC-4_online_clip_small.wmv)
That's exactly what i'm talking about. Eric Freeman teaches here in the Denver area so I see him out at the clubs fairly often. He does some VERY complicated arm patterns.
Spitfire
11-04-2003, 09:13 PM
It's been my experience that the pretzel works best with follows who are tall and have long arms, but shorter women have often done very well with it. In either case it is most optimum when the follow keeps the arms as flexible as possible.
danceguy
11-23-2003, 08:30 PM
Hmm, I know this is an older thread but I just learned something called a Pretzel in my Salsa class. It was basically how DanceMentor described it...the lead would go into a hammerlock as he faced the follow, then make a window with his right arm for the lady to pass through. Then a slight step the side as she passed behind, then make a window on the left where she passes through, and then from there you can spin her or add something else. I did find it very difficult to do with tall women, and much easier with shorter ones.

I have never done this in Swing...is it similiar to an Eggbeater?

SG
Sagitta
11-23-2003, 09:58 PM
You can also change the pretzel so that you face the follow and open a window with your left arm....etc

In swing it can be done in 3 x 6 counts. 1st 6 count the leader goes into hammerlock via a leader's turn. Seecond 6 count you open the window so follow goes through, step to the side and make a window so follow steps through. Finally in the last 6 count the leader unwinds to be back in open position with follow and leader facing each other. I'm not sure if this is similar to an eggbeater as I've never heard of it. Does this help?
danceguy
11-24-2003, 12:21 AM
Sagitta,

Thank you for the well written explanation! I'm not quite adept enough to pull a pretzel off on the dance floor...I'm just starting to learn some more fancy type moves and it will be a while before I can really "feel" them well enough to put them into my skill set.

Besides...I've noticed that pretzels are a really good way to cause a dance floor accident if you aren't really careful and your partner doesn't know them! :shock:

Best,

SG
Spitfire
11-24-2003, 05:26 AM
I did find it very difficult to do with tall women, and much easier with shorter ones.

I find taller women the easiest to do the pretzel with.
Salsero_AT
11-24-2003, 08:32 AM
I did find it very difficult to do with tall women, and much easier with shorter ones.

I find taller women the easiest to do the pretzel with.

I think that depends on the way you do it. If you step under the lady´s arm it is easier with a tall woman, if she steps under yours then it is the other way round.