how often to compete

[Kitty]

how often is optimal and what does it depend on?

I know couples in Europe compete almost every weekend. On one hand that is more intense and probably makes them better performers. On the other hand, probably takes time out of practice schedule and is tiring. What are the pros and cons?
I'd like to compete more often, but all comes down to cost: in the US one has to travel for comps + pay large entry fees on to p of travel/hotel cost. I would love to be able to go to more local comps... there are very few though (once every 2 months). Is that not enough? doens one have to be seen by judges more? have more experience?

[tanya_the_dancer]

how often is optimal and what does it depend on?

I know couples in Europe compete almost every weekend. On one hand that is more intense and probably makes them better performers. On the other hand, probably takes time out of practice schedule and is tiring. What are the pros and cons?
I'd like to compete more often, but all comes down to cost: in the US one has to travel for comps + pay large entry fees on to p of travel/hotel cost. I would love to be able to go to more local comps... there are very few though (once every 2 months). Is that not enough? doens one have to be seen by judges more? have more experience?

I compete pro-am twice a year (for now, and so far I have competed 4 times total). The two comps I go to are 2 hour drive from my house, so at least I don't have to pay for airplane tickets (but I have to stay in the hotel). I might do more in the future, but I can't see myself being able to afford more than 5 comps per year.

[saludas]

Am/am, of course, is cheap and, if you have a good crowd to compete against, very rewarding and a great learning experience.

I think one reason that competitive couples from Europe do well here is because of the availability and frequency of well-attended comps. I think that a couple that does many comps is more attuned to the vagaries of competition that include density of the floor (amount of couples), elimination of 'butterflies' thanks to comps being such a frequent and therefore 'unspecial' event, and such.

I don't think that the quest for more comps works well for Proam (at 5-6 times the cost per comp the only people this works well for is the pro) but perhaps seeing am/ams doing 8-12 a year might prove to be a 'push' to the Proammer to seek alternative ways to dance well.

Some negatives with frequent competing include the 'dumbing down' of your learning curve to accomodate the shorter practice times because of less time between comps, and perhaps the 'specialness' leaving (esp for beginners, or proams who are there as much for the glitter and excitement as for the 'climb' up the competitive ladder) but the positives outweigh these, IMHO...

[Kitty]

pro-am comps are different. they are too expensive practically by definition.
I was talking about amateur couples...

as an amateur couple in NY I'd be able to compete once every 2 months locally (locally = within reach by public transportation for reasonable p, including close NJ and close CT)

but I want to know often is better for the couple and for what reasons. If more is better then I'd need to travel for comps which takes time and money...

[star_gazer]

Am/am, of course, is cheap and,
Cheap? hardly...less expensive I agree.

[tanya_the_dancer]

Even if I went to my 2 local comps with an amateur partner, I would still have to pay a lot for the entries and the hotel. It wouldn't be much cheaper.

[saludas]

Cheap? hardly...less expensive I agree.

Well, cheapER than a proammer paying thousands of dollars at a comp compared to hundreds by an am/am couple.

[saludas]

Even if I went to my 2 local comps with an amateur partner, I would still have to pay a lot for the entries and the hotel. It wouldn't be much cheaper.


Yes, the cost of entry and hotels etc are the SAME, but the cost of the comp etc can be significantly CHEAPER when you factor in the 'proam grab' of added charges to the student for entries going thru the studio, 'packages', the cost per dance of the pro, etc.

Another thread might be useful to discuss how to make comps cheaper for the am couple....

[mamboqueen]

I have yet to pay thousands at a pro/am comp. But, I agree it is inherently more expensive.

Kitty...it seems to me the more exposure you have to the judges, and the more you are performing in front of crowds, the better it has to be. Can you swing one a month?

[fascination]

cant imaging doing more than 8...I think 5 is plenty for me....I for one am looking forward to a break from december though feb....certainly costs can be controlled by a variety of decisions....including hotel choices and number of heats you dance....I am paying nearly two grand for OSB and that is the most I have ever paid

[mamboqueen]

cant imaging doing more than 8...I think 5 is plenty for me....I for one am looking forward to a break from december though feb....certainly costs can be controlled by a variety of decisions....including hotel choices and number of heats you dance....I am paying nearly two grand for OSB and that is the most I have ever paid


Ditto on the break. Collect myself...and my dollars!

[Kitty]

Even if I went to my 2 local comps with an amateur partner, I would still have to pay a lot for the entries and the hotel. It wouldn't be much cheaper.


going to a comp with an am partner is a lot less expensive actually.

entry fee multidance event, split in half), say $40, you pay $20 and your partner pays $20,
entry to the ballroom, say @ $30 per person.

total of $50 per person. + travel. (max I can imagine is $40 per person)

why would you need to stay overnight in a hotel? I'm sure you can find 2 local comps a year in your area...

[tanya_the_dancer]

going to a comp with an am partner is a lot less expensive actually.

entry fee multidance event, split in half), say $40, you pay $20 and your partner pays $20,
entry to the ballroom, say @ $30 per person.

total of $50 per person. + travel. (max I can imagine is $40 per person)

why would you need to stay overnight in a hotel? I'm sure you can find 2 local comps a year in your area...

In my case my am partner would be my husband (although competing is not his idea of fun), so there would be no splitting anything. As for those 2 comps, those are my local comps, in the 2 big cities closest to mine. My town is roughly a half-way point between them. If I have to dance there in the morning (say 9am, that's when morning events tend to start), I have to either stay overnight or leave home at 5:30 am to have time to get ready (and I don't function well when I get up at 5:30am). That's life in Mid-America, I guess.

[Kitty]

In my case my am partner would be my husband (although competing is not his idea of fun), so there would be no splitting anything. As for those 2 comps, those are my local comps, in the 2 big cities closest to mine. My town is roughly a half-way point between them. If I have to dance there in the morning (say 9am, that's when morning events tend to start), I have to either stay overnight or leave home at 5:30 am to have time to get ready (and I don't function well when I get up at 5:30am). That's life in Mid-America, I guess.

It is personal choice. I've gotten up at 5:30am and even at 5am and even at 4:30am in order to get at 9 am to a comp which is 4 hours away. I just didn't have the money, so staying in a hotel wasn't an option.

[saludas]

It is personal choice. I've gotten up at 5:30am and even at 5am and even at 4:30am in order to get at 9 am to a comp which is 4 hours away. I just didn't have the money, so staying in a hotel wasn't an option.

You got up at 5:30am to get to a comp at 9am that is 4 hours away? Wow, please inform us of your route next time so that we can clear the roads - you must have been going 100....

[mamboqueen]

she might have to change her user name to "cheetah"!

[Katarzyna]

You got up at 5:30am to get to a comp at 9am that is 4 hours away? Wow, please inform us of your route next time so that we can clear the roads - you must have been going 100....
She's quick

[alemana]

in my ideal scenario, i would compete probably every 2 months or so. that would give me time to work on my stuff in between comps. i can't afford that rate, however.

a pro i know bemoans the insane competition schedule he feels he needs to keep. at his level, the improvements he can make from one comp to the next are incremental, so he doesn't get to have the breakthrough performances that he might be able to if he were on the floor less often.

additionally, he says, most pro competitors are overexposed to the judges; to make up for that, they are pushed to look for "new" and "different" things all the time, from costuming to makeup to tricks to other 'improvements.' since their dancing cannot appreciably improve in such short timeframes, they really have to reach for other indicators of "growth," and i think honestly this is behind a lot of the more unfortunate tendencies in dancesport today.

[Kitty]

You got up at 5:30am to get to a comp at 9am that is 4 hours away? Wow, please inform us of your route next time so that we can clear the roads - you must have been going 100....


no I was waking up at 4:30.
point is, always before 5:30!


I don't have to do that anymore cause now I usually be dance in the evening/afternoon session. I miss it a little bit. Early early morning, sun is still down, empy roads, stop for a quick breakfast on the way, drink coffee in the parking lot, do hair/makeup quickly, put costume on and warm up for 5 minutes... then dance several rounds. enjoy the placement and participate in every fun event possible. Cheer (loudly) for friends.
It is not the same anymore. Not as special.

worried about results. When you've been dancing for a few months, you don't have as much pressure to get good results as when you are a veteran. Dancing has to be worth the word "prechamp" now. the comps I attended were never big enough to prove that I belong.
The dress maters now: I have to look good next to other open couples! same for hair and make up.

also there used to be an element of surprise in competing: "we made the cut?! will we make the final?!" Now i pretty much know where I'll place before I even compete (cause the field is so small). Not as fun.

Innocence lost.

[Kitty]

She's quick


well, my partner was driving... same partner that frequently attempted double-speed quickstep...

[Katarzyna]

well, my partner was driving... same partner that frequently attempted double-speed quickstep...oh yes, I forgot Sasha's driving

[Kitty]

a pro i know bemoans the insane competition schedule he feels he needs to keep. at his level, the improvements he can make from one comp to the next are incremental, so he doesn't get to have the breakthrough performances that he might be able to if he were on the floor less often.

additionally, he says, most pro competitors are overexposed to the judges; to make up for that, they are pushed to look for "new" and "different" things all the time, from costuming to makeup to tricks to other 'improvements.' since their dancing cannot appreciably improve in such short timeframes, they really have to reach for other indicators of "growth," and i think honestly this is behind a lot of the more unfortunate tendencies in dancesport today.

thats interesting. If he is overexposed, why does he feel he needs to keep up crazy competition schedule?
what does "overexposed" mean? judges are getting bored of seeing you?

this is exactly what I wanted to talk about. What is this "exposure thing" and how to optimise it.

[fascination]

Ditto on the break. Collect myself...and my dollars!
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE avatar

[VTDancer]

For me I think the ideal comp schedule would be to have a series of about 3 comps at 2 week intervals, then about 2 months off, then repeat the whole sequence.

Don't you ever finish a comp and think, I know I could do better. Or, that was a real breakthrough, I want to do it again before I loose it. So I think I get into a "comp mode" for a while. But then I need to back off and work on the underlying technique, fixing problem figures, etc. Alternating between "comp mode" and "learn mode" would be perfect.

Too bad it never works out that way for me.

[lynn]

This is a general comment about overexposure:

Sometimes when a judge remembers you from a previous comp - he/she remembers the mistake as well. One danger is that he/she will be focusing on THAT instead of noticing other areas of the dance.

[standardgirl]

I like to compete intensively (like once a month - well, this is a lot for proammers) over a period of time, let's say about 3-4 months, and then not compete for a while. This allows me to be at "peak" during my competitive season and allows time to work on techniques and other things when I am not heavily competing.

as a side note, the cost of proam competition could be cut significantly if you only compete in one style and if you find a pro with reasonable rate.

[fenixx]

I like to compete intensively (like once a month - well, this is a lot for proammers) over a period of time, let's say about 3-4 months, and then not compete for a while. This allows me to be at "peak" during my competitive season and allows time to work on techniques and other things when I am not heavily competing.

as a side note, the cost of proam competition could be cut significantly if you only compete in one style and if you find a pro with reasonable rate.

A pro with a reasonable rate?... Like Donnie (j/k)

I like the "season" approach to dance as well. I have this weird thing where I approach dance like a sport so bear with me: many sports have games at least once a week with an off season. Meet sports, such as tennis, who are not limited seasonally, do have a sort-of season and tournaments occur on a regular basis. In college there is a season feel: fall semester and spring semester. Entry rates are very reasonable, so its possible to do these comps as long as you can get there. The one problem is most college people are just learning, so tons of competition is not very useful if they don't know what they are doing. For the mid-level dancer tons of competition is very helpful. I think more silver - pre-champ dancers should take advantage of the college system to gain experience and exposure. Also, more college students in the middle levels should use the non-college comps to fill out there season, though I understand the hesitation brought on by expensive registration fees.

Those involved at the highest level compete similarly to tennis pros: they go to the grand slams (Worlds, UK's, International, Blackpool, German Open, etc) and fill in the rest with secondary competitions. What you dont hear about is their bread-and-butter: shows. These shows are performed very often and contribute to a lot of a top amateur/pro's polish and showmanship. A midlevel dancer does not have the performance to put such shows together, so they should compete more. In Europe it is very easy to compete often due to the amount of comps that occur weekly and the inexpensive entry fees. We just don't have the numbers in the US yet (at least not in such concentrations) which is why I mention the college scene which seems to be our greatest hope at the moment for such massive involvement.

So, I think with the limitations set upon most of us, a healthy amount of competition to keep skills sharp for a midlevel dancer would be monthly to twice-monthly for about 4 months. Take a small break (all star break) for about 2 months, then restart similarly. I know comps take place every weekend in some part of the country, but this is my very general approach to competition. Obviously, you need to weigh the comps you want to go to, money, time, etc.

[Joe]

In my case my am partner would be my husband (although competing is not his idea of fun)
So do you consider putting up with his bitching and moaning about having to compete with you as an additional cost of sorts? :D

[tanya_the_dancer]

So do you consider putting up with his bitching and moaning about having to compete with you as an additional cost of sorts? :D

Yeah, sort of. I actually competed with him once and I know what he can do in this area (I mean complaints, not dancing).