Brown comp

[Kitty]

how is everyone getting there?

[Katarzyna]

What do you suggest? Chinatown bus ?

[Kitty]

i've never been to the venue...
I guess yeah. will go with the cheapest. As long as the chinatown bus will bring us to the venue.

would you be staying overnight?

[Katarzyna]

since the event is so early, probably yes

[Merrylegs]

This event takes place in a suburb of Boston. The Chinatown bus won't take you all the way to the event, you'll need to coordinate the 2nd leg of your travel to Moseley's. Maybe the commuter rail goes out there, but I'm not sure.....

[Chris Stratton]

In theory you can get there on boston public transit (city bus most likely), but if staying overnight at Brown you want to take the intercity bus to providence not boston (probably return from boston though)

[Kitty]

In theory you can get there on boston public transit (city bus most likely), but if staying overnight at Brown you want to take the intercity bus to providence not boston (probably return from boston though)

are there buses that go to providence?

[Chris Stratton]

Yes, both traditional and I think one of the chinatown companies.

But two couples with the same plans might find renting a car simpler. It looks like you can save a bunch by picking it up outside the city but returning it inside.

[Kitty]

yay! 7 couples at Brown!

come on, couples, register!

[Katarzyna]

At least the #s are going up :o)

[Katarzyna]

10 registered now, couple more to go and I will be very happy :)

[Kitty]

10 registered now, couple more to go and I will be very happy :)
would be nice to have at least 4 more couples and have a quater.

[Katarzyna]

So far I think only couple people from Brown registered:confused:

[Katarzyna]

17 couples, now we are getting somewhere:)

[Chris Stratton]

Does anyone know what or where "Dance Fever" is? Whole lot of couples at a full range of levels registered with that as their affiliation.

[Katarzyna]

isn't it a studio?

[Chris Stratton]

Presumably... just never seen a studio so well represented at a college comp (or really at any comp, for such a wide range of levels)

[Matt Sorrentino]

It is a studio somewhere near boston. The majority of the instructors and kids, are from Russia and Checklosovakia, and Israiel I belive. They are rather young for the most part. I rember one of the kids was dancing at bronze at Brown a few years ago and then the next year at MIT he was pre-champ. Amazing.

[mamboqueen]

googled --> studio is in Needham

[tanz15]

This is probably one of those studios whose kids dance open routines in syllabus at college comps, get a warning, dance the same routine in the next round, and then get disqualified because they have no idea what syllabus is (their open routine being the only routine that they know).

[Matt Sorrentino]

In Fact, you hit it right on the nose. Last year they did all get disqualified from the gold level for dancing open rountines. Then they just put them in open levels after that. Still though their dancing is very impressive, and rather disheartening to myself because they were once dancing on the floor next to me and then a few competitions later were at pre-champ. *sigh* Can't help but feel like I got burned ^_^

[Kitty]

so are hose dance fever couples mostly junior couples?

curious how strong they are...

I'm pretty sure Kat is going to win the open standard though...
curios if Boris + Jessica and my partner and I will be in the final...

I guess all depends on what these dance fever couples really are...

this comp has an "Open" level that is not subdivided into precham champ and novice... so I have no idea what we are getting... especially since I've never been to Brown comp.

[Chris Stratton]

Unitary "open" was the norm at collegiate comps until the last year or two. Last I looked at the registration, most of the couples I'd expect to see in the open event are there. I can think of a three who've done it in the past who could still show up, and one who clearly won't. Factoring out changes in partnerships or competition interest and incidental conflicts, Brown, Harvard, and MIT tend to have fairly similar open entries amongst the local couples.

[Katarzyna]

I'm pretty sure Kat is going to win the open standard though...
curios if Boris + Jessica and my partner and I will be in the final...

I guess all depends on what these dance fever couples really are...
Kitty, you can never be sure.:) Don't know any of those couples either...

[nevsky]

I don't think Dance Fever kids have ever done much Standard, so I doubt they will do open at Brown. And judging by the fact that the same 5 Dance Fever couples are registered for all 4 open levels, including american style, something funny is going on, most likely a registration error - like marking "all open levels" instead of just "open latin", or whatever the labels are.

Eric Nielsen (if you're reading this): I think it's a hint to reconsider some of the UI choices.

[Katarzyna]

If that's true, standard might be back to barely being a semi ? :(

[Kitty]

If that's true, standard might be back to barely being a semi ? :(


:-(
aren't there more couples doing open standard in New England??? where are they. I've heard some years brown had a quater...


nevsky, it was a very good point...

[Katarzyna]

2 years ago it was nice and big, last year was a small semi.. Not sure what happened to all the couples.. Graduated ?

[Chris Stratton]

2 years ago it was nice and big, last year was a small semi.. Not sure what happened to all the couples.. Graduated ?

Graduated, split up, and/or moved away, and haven't been replaced at the rate at which that was happening.

Note sure why - overall shift from standard towards more interest in latin? breakdown in team programs? Overdependence on team programs without the private lessons needed to move into open? Increased awareness of increasingly higher level of competition outside the collegiate circuit making the outlook for collegiate and post-collegiate amateurs more discouraging?

[Kitty]

Increased awareness of increasingly higher level of competition outside the collegiate circuit making the outlook for collegiate and post-collegiate amateurs more discouraging?

definitely that one...
sometime very discouraging...

maybe people stick to gold longer?

[Eli]

What happened to all the boston open latin couples?

[SDsalsaguy]

Welcome to the DF Eli! :)

[Joe]

Perhaps they all moved to NYC.

[Eli]

That's no excuse. I'm in NJ and i'm going!
Oh, and Thanks SDsalsaguy,

-Eli

[Katarzyna]

That's no excuse. I'm in NJ and i'm going!
Oh, and Thanks SDsalsaguy,

-Eli:banana: :banana: So happy I will be seeing you again

[Matt Sorrentino]

I'm glad as well. Tim always speaks of you, but I've yet to see you in competition! That NJ regional was bogus last year, wanting us to pay to see you guys compete. It sure was fun sitting in the lobby waiting :( Well regardless, that's awsome Eli. See you soon

[Eli]

Katarzyna, I haven't seen you dancing in a very long time. Matt I'm not sure if I ever saw you dancing. (Although your brother talks about you too sometimes). I hope that I'll get to see you both compete finally! It's my first competition with a new partner in a very long time, so hopefully you won't be paying too much attention to me :)

See you soon!

[Joe]

I'm glad as well. Tim always speaks of you, but I've yet to see you in competition! That NJ regional was bogus last year, wanting us to pay to see you guys compete. It sure was fun sitting in the lobby waiting :( Well regardless, that's awsome Eli. See you soon
I'm shocked--shocked!--that they actually wanted you to pay to watch! The nerve those people have, trying to make some money! They should have let you in for free, because you're so special!

[Katarzyna]

Katarzyna, I haven't seen you dancing in a very long time. Matt I'm not sure if I ever saw you dancing. (Although your brother talks about you too sometimes). It's my first competition with a new partner in a very long time, so hopefully you won't be paying too much attention to me :)

See you soon!Good luck with the new partner. I think I saw your ex dancing at Embassy, but could be confused.

I am so happy you will be at Brown :)

[Chris Stratton]

I'm shocked--shocked!--that they actually wanted you to pay to watch! The nerve those people have, trying to make some money! They should have let you in for free, because you're so special!

It was a bit atypical from the rest of the series, in that competitors from other sessions had to pay for the evening session. But that was true of the previous regional, MAC, as well.

Very few competitions are held in facilities large enough to permit unrestricted attendance of spectators at high-interest sessions. Most rooms adequate for ordinary functions just get too small when you rope off a dance floor in the center.

[Eli]

Good luck with the new partner. I think I saw your ex dancing at Embassy, but could be confused.


Yup that probably was the ex partner. After years of trying to avoid dancing with eachother, I'm dancing with the GF now. I hope I dance well, otherwise I won't get any! :) J/K

[Katarzyna]

Yup that probably was the ex partner. After years of trying to avoid dancing with eachother, I'm dancing with the GF now. I hope I dance well, otherwise I won't get any! :) J/K:D Don't you ALWAYS dance well :rolleyes:

[pygmalion]

Hi Eli. Not sure how I missed you a couple days back. But welcome. Late, but sincere. :)

[Kitty]

Yup that probably was the ex partner. After years of trying to avoid dancing with eachother, I'm dancing with the GF now. I hope I dance well, otherwise I won't get any! :) J/K


haha
you better:-)

[Katarzyna]

haha
you better:-)We need entertainment at Brown :-D

[Egoist]

Yup that probably was the ex partner. After years of trying to avoid dancing with eachother, I'm dancing with the GF now. I hope I dance well, otherwise I won't get any! :) J/K

So you're saying you've been celibate for years?
:)

[Eli]

So you're saying you've been celibate for years?
:)

I'm still a pure and wholesome virgin :)

[mamboqueen]

About that Brown comp.....

[Kitty]

About that Brown comp.....

:-)

well, open standard, if everyone shows up, is now a quater. 15 couples registered.
curious who will make the final. I better add some floats to my dress before the event, or I risk getting lost in the crowd of dancers in championship gowns...

BTW it will be the first time I'll dance on the same floor with Kat! (if you don' count rhythm at MIT)

[Chris Stratton]

BTW it will be the first time I'll dance on the same floor with Kat! (if you don' count rhythm at MIT

Now, now, what happens in Cambridge stays in Cambridge

[Kitty]

especially the things that happen in hotel rooms...

[Katarzyna]

:rolleyes:

[SDsalsaguy]

:shock:

:eyebrow: :eyebrow:

[Katarzyna]

:-)

BTW it will be the first time I'll dance on the same floor with Kat! (if you don' count rhythm at MIT)

Will be fun to compete against you :):kissme: :kissme:

[Kitty]

Will be fun to compete against you :):kissme:
scaaary:):kissme:

[mamboqueen]

:-)

well, open standard, if everyone shows up, is now a quater. 15 couples registered.
curious who will make the final. I better add some floats to my dress before the event, or I risk getting lost in the crowd of dancers in championship gowns...

BTW it will be the first time I'll dance on the same floor with Kat! (if you don' count rhythm at MIT)


Well, I might have to come see this one!

[mamboqueen]

lmao....if it wasn't for the recent eye exam, I wouldn't have even noticed!

[Egoist]

scaaary:):kissme:

Enough of this shmoopie crap. Get a room.

[Joe]

especially the things that happen in hotel rooms...

Enough of this shmoopie crap. Get a room.
Apparently they already have! :-D

[Katarzyna]

Well, I might have to come see this one!You should :)

[mamboqueen]

I'm confused; is it in RI or Cambridge?

[Katarzyna]

It's Mosely's ballroom. I think it's like 45 min from Boston...

[mamboqueen]

Dedham! Doable!

I didn't see a date...when is it?

I'll bring the cookies!

[Katarzyna]

November 13th I believe :)

[Merrylegs]

**bump**

Roll Call!

Who's attending this competition? What are you dancing and with whom? Give us details. Physical descriptions are good too so we can cheer you on.

[Katarzyna]

I think all the people planning to attend already mentioned it.. Would be great to seee who else will be there:D

So far Tuan will be there

[Eli]

Who's attending this competition? What are you dancing and with whom? Give us details. Physical descriptions are good too so we can cheer you on.

I shave my head so I'm easy to find. :)

[Merrylegs]

I shave my head so I'm easy to find. :)

Good! Are you a man or a woman? Just kidding.

What are you dancing?

Just trying to drum up a little excitement.....

[Eli]

Good! Are you a man or a woman? Just kidding.

What are you dancing?

Just trying to drum up a little excitement.....

I would make a really ugly woman! I'm just dancing latin. How about yourself... what do you look like? what are you dancing?

-Eli

[fenixx]

I will be there with UConn DanceSport. No dancing for me :( . Eli, do you dance with Christine Demaio?

[Eli]

I will be there with UConn DanceSport. No dancing for me :( . Eli, do you dance with Christine Demaio?

Yes I do. Poor girl :) How do you know her?

[fenixx]

I almost danced with her years ago.

[Eli]

It's a small world :) Now I'm curious.. who are you?

[Kitty]

Kat and I and couple of other people from NY are coming, but we are only going to be there for standard, leaving right after our event,
so don't look for us during open latin.

wish I could stay and watch all of the events. If Boston was closer...

[NielsenE]

I'll be there, scrutineering...

[Katarzyna]

I'll be there, scrutineering...Great. btw I noticed you already include the result tracker on your registration site. Wouldn't it be great if you could get a database of even at least all the college comps in the region :)

[NielsenE]

Great. btw I noticed you already include the result tracker on your registration site. Wouldn't it be great if you could get a database of even at least all the college comps in the region :)

I just got the data from Harvard Beginner and UConn and am working to get it loaded. There are plans for the DCDI data as well -- and Brown's will be trivial as I already have the scripts needed to load competitions I scrutineer.

[Katarzyna]

I just got the data from Harvard Beginner and UConn and am working to get it loaded. There are plans for the DCDI data as well -- and Brown's will be trivial as I already have the scripts needed to load competitions I scrutineer. That's great, it should become a very good resource soon

[Kitty]

I just got the data from Harvard Beginner and UConn and am working to get it loaded. There are plans for the DCDI data as well -- and Brown's will be trivial as I already have the scripts needed to load competitions I scrutineer.

how will you get around problem of people registering under different variations of their names or misspelled names?

for example, if Kat registers as Katarzyna one time, and as Kat another time and as Katherine third time, will the results be tracked as for 3 different people?

[Chris Stratton]

for example, if Kat registers as Katarzyna one time, and as Kat another time and as Katherine third time, will the results be tracked as for 3 different people?

Yeah, she might never place out of pre-champ Vw!

[NielsenE]

how will you get around problem of people registering under different variations of their names or misspelled names?

for example, if Kat registers as Katarzyna one time, and as Kat another time and as Katherine third time, will the results be tracked as for 3 different people?

No. There's a manual step during the import when I go through the "close matches" to determine if a person is actually a variation or not. So its not completely automated, but it also doesn't require a globally unique identifier. As I start to get more competitions into the database, I'll need to find some assistants from ther other areas of the country -- I tend to know which duplicates are real or not in New England given names, partner names, and schools. But I'ld be relatively clueless about say the DC, mid-west or California area teams.

[Katarzyna]

Am I placed out of VW in anything. i don't believe I danced it at any comp this system tracks... ?

[NielsenE]

Am I placed out of VW in anything. i don't believe I danced it at any comp this system tracks... ?

Most of last year's events have already been loaded: so you have some results from both Brown 04 and MIT 05 in the system.

[Katarzyna]

Most of last year's events have already been loaded: so you have some results from both Brown 04 and MIT 05 in the system.Oh, we scratched Vw at MIT, but I guess yes, we did Vw at Brown..

[Chris Stratton]

There are some online USA Dance results that should be imported too, to accurately categorize some of the couples.

[Katarzyna]

That's what I thought, probably USA Dance events can be easily grabbed, same goes for things listed under dancesportinfo...

[Kitty]

That's what I thought, probably USA Dance events can be easily grabbed, same goes for things listed under dancesportinfo...
yeah, but that would involve some really dedicated team of grabbers + the results on dancesportinfo are only for the champ events... which is not of much significance for the collegiate YCN world.

also, how will the USA dance results be imported: as a USABDA points 1:1 ratio and points only awarded for first place? or as YCN points with YCN point-awarding system? Maybe there could be an option of tracking one's USABDA/NDCA points and YCN points separately?
this is interesting cause people will probably finally adopt one single way of converting points - the one that you choose, just cause it will be conviniently online anyway... will hel get rid of some of the mess.

[Katarzyna]

hm.. you're right kitty..

[Chris Stratton]

also, how will the USA dance results be imported: as a USABDA points 1:1 ratio and points only awarded for first place? or as YCN points with YCN point-awarding system?

Unless he's changed it, the system is not actually storing points, but results, expressed as number of cuts made and placement in final.

When you query a name, it then calculates points based on those results under a variety of systems currently in use for various competitions, with the idea that whatever accounting is needed can easily be added.

[NielsenE]

Unless he's changed it, the system is not actually storing points, but results, expressed as number of cuts made and placement in final.

When you query a name, it then calculates points based on those results under a variety of systems currently in use for various competitions, with the idea that whatever accounting is needed can easily be added.

That's still the case.

The system at present would also do the "incorrect" thing with USA Dance Inc competitions as it would re-tally the points under the YCN system and not under the point-for-point system. However, that because most collegiate organizers I've talked to prefer the "incorrect" system I've implemented. IE a first place at a USA Dance Inc comp, with a semi or quarter iwould register as 3 YCN points, not 1.

[Chris Stratton]

They may prefer the logical system, but few besides MIT actually state on their competition pages that this is how elgibility for their comps is to be calculated.

[Chris Stratton]

Hmm... well, between the organizers forgetting to provide any sort of general dances or warmup round, or divide the floor until after total gridlock ensued in the waltz, and me forgetting the critical part of the quickstep not once, but also when I set us up for a second try at it...

...we'll just leave it as saying the gown project came out well

(PS congrats to Kat and Ben and their partners)

[chrisjohnston]

Just got home from the comp.I enjoyed myself and was glad that the comp ran on time.As a former amateur dancer I never expected to get a warm -up so Chris is this a new rule that Amateurs get a warm -up dance.Cheers Chris

[Chris Stratton]

Just got home from the comp.I enjoyed myself and was glad that the comp ran on time.As a former amateur dancer I never expected to get a warm -up so Chris is this a new rule that Amateurs get a warm -up dance.Cheers Chris

There are a variety of alternatives: general dances, warmup area, etc.

This event provided none of these. It was also inexcusable to pack 14 competitors on such a narrow floor - an MC with real knowledge of dancing would have seen this before the first dance, not after it. Given that most of these competitors danced only a single event, surely the time to do it right could have been justified. I'm really not sure why the COJ let her get away with that.

I have never seen a more poorly organized competition from the perspective of competitor practicality. There's a reason Harvard and MIT are two day affairs for these field sizes.

The big thing though is how what they were forced to do ended up taking nearly as much time as being willing to do it right from the beginning would have - only that would have avoided the complaints. If they'd started out splitting the quarter, and realized they needed to run it as a quarter rather than trying to make it a semi, this would have taken two minutes more than actually spent in splitting all but the waltz. Toss in 3 minutes of warmup / "how slick is the floor" time before the preceding event, and it would have been a very enjoyable competition.

Ah well, college comps = rounds in costume.

PS - music often under standard lengths (ie, what would be required at a sanctioned comp - just timed a tango at 87 seconds - another classic college comp fault)

[Katarzyna]

To add to this, there was no intro of couples in the open, not even during the awards. The awards were read out so fast that some people didn't even get to hear what was their placement. Our event run always as a surprise out of nowhere, and the music would start before everyone was on the floor... even in the final...

Chris, well there was a sort of warm-up area downstairs...

Of course all the newcomers got the nice music, the music during open was well.. .uninspiring...

It was good to just get out there and dance, but I agree with Chris, this comp was not the best organized one... Actually, should have expected that. I e-mailed organizers re schedule about 3 weeks ago and nobody ever got back to me... last year I e-mailed about housing and I got a reply the day before the comp.. oh well..

On the positive note it was so nice to see Eli again :D (although I couldn't stay to watch him dance )

[Katarzyna]

btw, There was a photographer at the comp. does anyone know the website. I briefly saw goddard..something.com

[Chris Stratton]

Of course all the newcomers got the nice music

I wouldn't say that... there were some fairly ambiguous things played.

One general comment - above there was some comparison to what would be required at a sanctioned competition. I've long been an advocate of letting college comps do things their own way. The hope is that they will do better in their unique situation than the sanctioning rules would allow, or at least as well. Some cost should be exepcted as a consequence of experimentation in trying to make things better. But when freedom is taken as license to attempt the impractical, particularly the same mistakes that have so often been made in this sort of competition and particular venue in the past, they should expect to hear about it!

[Katarzyna]

I wouldn't say that... there were some fairly ambiguous things played.!
Well, newcomer music sounded a lot better to me than our music.. What was that waltz in the semi (sounded closer to tango to me)... not saying all the newcomer music was good, but the bit I heard sounded a lot better than what we had to dance to...

[Chris Stratton]

Well, newcomer music sounded a lot better to me than our music.. What was that waltz in the semi (sounded closer to tango to me)... not saying all the newcomer music was good, but the bit I heard sounded a lot better than what we had to dance to...

Middle round of the open? A very nice waltz - has something in common with a tango in accent instruments and flavor, but clearly lyrical and waltz-like, used to use it for practice a lot. Trying to remember, possibly it's called Recuerdos del Alhumbra?

I could have done without the spider man quickstep, but that was hardly our biggest problem. One of the newcomer cha cha numbers was atrocious though... sitting in the far corner we couldn't even figure out what it was supposed to be until I got a look at the floor (and my partner did 10 dance until recently)

[Katarzyna]

I just found that it was throwing me off. Yes it had waltz melody, but I kept being spaced out in the semis and then hearing music and going oh no we are competing oh my feet are dancing waltz.. oh the music is playing tango, oh no it's a waltz... WAKE UP!!!!

[mamboqueen]

btw, There was a photographer at the comp. does anyone know the website. I briefly saw goddard..something.com

Moses Goddard. I think Supershag's website might be the place to look/inquire.

[Katarzyna]

Moses Goddard. I think Supershag's website might be the place to look/inquire.Thank you :)

[Eli]

On the positive note it was so nice to see Eli again :D (although I couldn't stay to watch him dance )

It was nice to see you too! I don't watch Standard very often, and I enjoyed your performance a lot. Oh Christine and I were wondering if you had dance experience before you started ballroom? Like ballet?

As for missing our dancing, don't worry about it. Since we're both in the NYC area, I'm sure we'll see each other lots. :)

[Katarzyna]

It was nice to see you too! I don't watch Standard very often, and I enjoyed your performance a lot. Oh Christine and I were wondering if you had dance experience before you started ballroom? Like ballet?

As for missing our dancing, don't worry about it. Since we're both in the NYC area, I'm sure we'll see each other lots. :)Well, I danced ballet for less than a year when I was like 7 or 8 soo not much (and that was only 2 hours a week) .. But I used to be a competitive skier and so my lower body was fairly well trained and prepared for dancing.. The upper body I'm still struggling with...

I just can't believe I never saw you really dance... King's ball perhaps :)

[mamboqueen]

Skiing? Wow, I'm impressed. Not a good mix with dancing, though. Do you still do it???

[Katarzyna]

Skiing? Wow, I'm impressed. Not a good mix with dancing, though. Do you still do it???recreationally only, and not too frequently. I had a really bad rollerblading accident, and now I get afraid where I go fast :(

[kaycee]

any results for the open standard and open latin?

[Chris Stratton]

Standard:
1) Alex & Katarzyna
2) Pat & Denise
3) Ben & Jennifer
4)
5)

Would expect the whole thing will be online shortly as the Eric who runs a results site was the scruitineer. Doesn't look like he got many breaks during the comp though, so probably enjoying some well deserved rest. (Seriously - I don't think folks got off the podium once in the entire time I was in the venue, unless maybe during the newcomer team match?)

[mamboqueen]

Congrats, Kat! Which dress?

[Katarzyna]

Standard:
1) Alex & Katarzyna
2) Pat & Denise
3) Ben & Jennifer
4)
5)

Would expect the whole thing will be online shortly as the Eric who runs a results site was the scruitineer. Doesn't look like he got many breaks during the comp though, so probably enjoying some well deserved rest. (Seriously - I don't think folks got off the podium once in the entire time I was in the venue, unless maybe during the newcomer team match?)I think 4 Ty and Katya and 5 Boris and Jessica, but could be reverse...

[Katarzyna]

Congrats, Kat! Which dress?Thank you!

The red one :) We'll see if I find some photos

[Ithink]

Standard:
1) Alex & Katarzyna
2) Pat & Denise
3) Ben & Jennifer
4)
5)

Would expect the whole thing will be online shortly as the Eric who runs a results site was the scruitineer. Doesn't look like he got many breaks during the comp though, so probably enjoying some well deserved rest. (Seriously - I don't think folks got off the podium once in the entire time I was in the venue, unless maybe during the newcomer team match?)

I guess David and Liva didn't dance? I'd expect them to be in the top 2 if they did...

[Katarzyna]

No they didn't dance. I think Liva has been too busy and too tired from work :(

[ghanima]

1) Alex & Katarzyna
2) Pat & Denise
3) Ben & Jennifer
4) Ty & Katya
5) Boris & Jessica

[kaycee]

thanks

open latin results anyone?

[Eli]

open latin:

1) Steve & Dionne
2) Eli & Christine
3) Filip & Jennifer
4)?
5)?
6) Boris & Jessica.

I have a really bad memory so I might have even screwed these results up.

[nevsky]

open latin:
....

Almost.

1. Steve & Dionne
2. Eli & Christine
3. Boris & Jessica
4. Guy & Sofiya (? - could be wrong here)
5. Eugene & Katie
6. Blake & Beth
7. Filip & Jenny

[Eli]

I stand Corrected. Thanks

[Katarzyna]

btw, for the syllabus section, what did everyone think of each judge having to judge on only one of the 3 criteria assigned to them (I think presentation, partnering and technique).. Read that in the program an dfound it very interesting...

[Chris Stratton]

I doubt it's very workable, as it asks many of the judges to ignore what may be the most important characteristic of a given couple to concentrate on something that might be comparatively trivial for that couple. If there were time you could ask all the judges to award a score in each skill aspect, but there isn't - so usually they are just asked to award a composite placement/recall decision.

May also make posting the marks a bit more complicated, especially if any judges had more than one assignment (if each judge only ever judged one thing, standard forms would work with the aspect listed as part of the judge's name - or you could have Barry Fife, technique and Barry Fife, syllabus each with a unique judge letter or number)

But experimentation has its place, and the college comps are it. Anyone aware of any outrageous results? Most of what I saw seemed to make sense, but I only saw a tiny bit of syllabus.

[Katarzyna]

what the program said was that each judge had only one assignment. one person judges only technique, one person only presentation. Did they actually end up doing it. how did it work?

[Chris Stratton]

what the program said was that each judge had only one assignment. one person judges only technique, one person only presentation.

In any given round of an event, or for the entire competition?

Also, I think this is an experiment of a magnitude which really must be mentioned in the entry materials beforehand. I don't know that it would impact anyone's decision to attend, but providing full infomration would seem like a necessary component of the kind of respect for the competitors that was so badly lacking yesterday.

[Kitty]

Aside from being somewhat disappointed with the result (but not my dancing), I was very disappointed with how the event was run.

first, there were way too many couples on the floor in the first couples. As Chris already said, they split the quater into 2 heats after the first waltz, but that first waltz left everyone nervous and disappointed: most people couldn't do their routines and were constantly ran into by other couples. We spent a lot of time standing in a traffic jam or recovering from being hit. And it wasn't due to bad floorcraft skills of open couples, but due to the small size of the floor.
after they split us in two heats and we had to go on/off the floor between each dance, they started playing music BEFORE the couples from the next heat were on the floor and took their places. This resulted in us always running to our spot and never taking neccessary time to take the hold. Which made us very nervous and left us disappointed. On top of that they played music for less than the standard time (I know that cause I know exactly how my routines are timed to the music). So we were always worried that the judges didn't get a chance to see us.

the event would always start at an unexpected time. They originally told us it was a semi. SO after what we thought was a semi, not a quater, we went downstairs (warmup area, where there was no way to know what's going on upstairs) cause we thought we had a lot of time till the final as it would run after all the other standard finals... out of the blue we overheard they were recalling couples back for the semi...

The recalls and the final placements were read so fast (and only once) that couples didnt' have a chance to hear them. So we spent some time during our semifinal round standing next to the floor trying to figure out if we were recalled... how can we dance well if we are all the time running and are nervous like that.

oh and if one of the couples wasn't on the floor (cause they had to run to the floor from the other side of the room, through a crowd, and dind't hear if their number was called on top of that) you'd think they'd stop the music and wait for 5 seconds for them, but NO!

the final consisted of 5 couples instead of 6 for no apparent reason! I know sometimes they do that if there are too many couples with the same number of recalls, however in this case it didn't make any sense:
both last 2 couples that made the final had 23 marks, we had 22 marks and the next couple after us had significantly less recalls. So you would think they'd logically recall 6 couples in to the final in such a close case... but no.

[Kitty]

(PS congrats to Kat and Ben and their partners)

don't know if i should be mad at you or thankful for leaving me out

[Katarzyna]

In any given round of an event, or for the entire competition?

Also, I think this is an experiment of a magnitude which really must be mentioned in the entry materials beforehand. I don't know that it would impact anyone's decision to attend, but providing full infomration would seem like a necessary component of the kind of respect for the competitors that was so badly lacking yesterday.the program said that that's how the syllabus portion of competition will be judged... didn't psy attention during the comp but saw that in the program before we left... so I was really curious what really happened...

[Another Elizabeth]

After they split us in two heats and we had to go on/off the floor between each dance, they started playing music BEFORE the couples from the next heat were on the floor and took their places. This resulted in us always running to our spot and never taking neccessary time to take the hold.

Was Kay Teague the MC? I've frequently noticed that she does this to try to speed up a competition (even if the competition is not running late). I think it's disrespectful to the dancers if they are not dawdling in getting onto the floor.

The final consisted of 5 couples instead of 6 for no apparent reason! I know sometimes they do that if there are too many couples with the same number of recalls, however in this case it didn't make any sense:
both last 2 couples that made the final had 23 marks, we had 22 marks and the next couple after us had significantly less recalls. So you would think they'd logically recall 6 couples in to the final in such a close case... but no.

How many couples were the judges told to recall? If possible, they are supposed to bring back the same number of couples that the judges are told to recall, whether that is 5, 6, 7, or 20. See Rule 2. (http://laurent.riesterer.free.fr/skating/rules.html)

[Chris Stratton]

the final consisted of 5 couples instead of 6 for no apparent reason!

Well the semifinal was seven couples, I think because they were hoping that the second round would be the final. You don't cut from seven to six. Arguably they could have run that 7 as the final, but I get the sense someone realized they owed the survivors big time for the carnage in the first round.

Instead of 14 -> 7 -> 5 something like 14 -> 10 -> 6 probably would have made more sense, but would have put the middle round in the (too big to share the floor / too small to split when paranoid about time) dilemma.

Also, people really have to learn not to put anything in front of the stage in Moseley's - it's already a natural choke point, putting speakers and judges there just makes it worse.

[Katarzyna]

Was Kay Teague the MC? I've frequently noticed that she does this to try to speed up a competition (even if the competition is not running late). I think it's disrespectful to the dancers if they are not dawdling in getting onto the floor.

the most annoying part was that they started the final waltz before we got on the floor. My partner just needed to grab his jacket but they wouldn't wait couple more seconds...:-?

[Katarzyna]

Well the semifinal was seven couples, I think because they were hoping that the second round would be the final.

Instead of 14 -> 7 -> 5 something like 14 -> 10 -> 6 probably would have made more sense, but would have put the middle round in the (too big to share the floor / too small to split when paranoid about time) dilemma.
.Semi had 8 not seven...

[Kitty]

Was Kay Teague the MC? I've frequently noticed that she does this to try to speed up a competition (even if the competition is not running late). I think it's disrespectful to the dancers if they are not dawdling in getting onto the floor.
thats exactly what I was thinking, I thought this was very disrespectful to us, dancers. Some of us have travelled very far away to participate in this event. and for all couples but one I believe, this was their only event at this comp.

playing music too short, having the floor too small and not splitting couples into two heats, and starting to play music before the couples are on the floor, not letting couples pick up jackets (Kat, my partner had same problem) doing recalls at unexpected times and everything-everything... the finalist couples were never introduced (though this obviously dind't affect me personally too much), the placements and recalls were said too fast and not clearly...

[Chris Stratton]

thats exactly what I was thinking,I thought this was very disrespectful to us, dancers. Some of us have travelled very far away to participate in this event.

Well, if that was Kay she came from further away to disrespect us ;-)

(I don't actually know who it was though... think I've actually seen the same person at an MIT comp, but following the procedures established for that)

EDIT: It seems the MC most likely WAS NOT Kay. Ordinarily I'd be hesitant to speculate like that, however Kay's name entered the conversation based on the similarity of her, um, trademark style to some of what went on at this comp.

[Ithink]

Wow, it sounds like this comp was a mess!! Next time you should come to DCDI, which was excellently run:)

[Kitty]

Wow, it sounds like this comp was a mess!! Next time you should come to DCDI, which was excellently run:)

good point.
maybe next year we will...

[Katarzyna]

Wow, it sounds like this comp was a mess!! Next time you should come to DCDI, which was excellently run:)Perhaps if it makes sense

[tendancer]

Almost.

1. Steve & Dionne
2. Eli & Christine
3. Boris & Jessica
4. Guy & Sofiya (? - could be wrong here)
5. Eugene & Katie
6. Blake & Beth
7. Filip & Jenny

Actually Eli won, it should've been
1 Eli & Christine
2 Steve & Dionne

Because it's missing Dale Bennet's marks in paso

121241 3556666 = 2
213112 3566666 = 1

should've been

1121241 4667777 = 1
2213112 3677777 = 2

Eric did you realize this? Missing one judge in paso reversed the results for the top two for the entire event.

[Chris Stratton]

Wow, it sounds like this comp was a mess!! Next time you should come to DCDI, which was excellently run:)

Hmm, well, you were saying that two years ago, so we went and tried it... typical mix of factors, some very good things, some fairly problematic, and at the time a very rapid dropoff in participation towards the higher levels. Would have gone back this year except for some last minute conflicts - had actually planned to do DCDI and probably not Brown, but then that got flipped when we weren't free last weekend.

[Chris Stratton]

are marks up somewhere or are you all going by memory?

[Katarzyna]

Actually Eli won, it should've been
1 Eli & Christine
2 Steve & Dionne

Because it's missing Dale Bennet's marks in paso

121241 3556666 = 2
213112 3566666 = 1

should've been

1121241 4667777 = 1
2213112 3677777 = 2

Eric did you realize this? Missing one judge in paso reversed the results for the top two for the entire event.Wow, they should change the results online at least when they get posted somewhere.. I'm glad Eli won.. Don't Know the other couple, but I usually usually cheer for friends :)

[Another Elizabeth]

are marks up somewhere or are you all going by memory?
Ballroomregistrar seems to be down at the moment - I assume that's where the marks will be.

[Chris Stratton]

Ballroomregistrar seems to be down at the moment - I assume that's where the marks will be.

Probably got tired of me trying to load the likely URL every 10 minutes...

[Kitty]

How many couples were the judges told to recall? If possible, they are supposed to bring back the same number of couples that the judges are told to recall, whether that is 5, 6, 7, or 20. See Rule 2. (http://laurent.riesterer.free.fr/skating/rules.html)

thanks for letting us know how the number of couples in the final is determined. We were wondering about that yesterday...

[Chris Stratton]

http://www.ballroomregistrar.com/results/Brown05/

Pat & Denise seem to have danced as 452 rather than their assigned 261

Looking at things it does seem Kitty is right that the big gap is after six couples, really quite dramatically, however it may be that final sizes are supposed to be decided procedurally, without taking the magnitude of the differences into question.

[Katarzyna]

just looked at results. It appears that they had separate judges for technique, presentation etc.. did anyone dance syllabus at Brown? If yes, how do you feel about this judging method?

[Another Elizabeth]

Looking at things it does seem Kitty is right that the big gap is after six couples, really quite dramatically, however it may be that final sizes are supposed to be decided procedurally, without taking the magnitude of the differences into question.
This is correct (both for final and preliminary sizes), with a caveat. According to the rules, if the "correct" number of couples (the number that the judges were requested to recall) can be recalled, then they must be. If you can't get the exact number, it is at the discretion of the Chairman of Judges whether to go up or down.

This competition presented an interesting dilemma in that they ended up inserting an extra round. They asked for seven from fourteen, and got a choice of six or eight. They couldn't go with six, because it would mean cutting more than half the couples in one round. They could have run an eight-couple final, but apparently they decided to run an extra round instead. I think (but I'm not sure) that once they had decided they needed an extra round, they could have called back nine or ten, instead of running an eight-couple semi. They also had a choice whether to ask the judges to recall five or six couples for the final, and chose to ask for five. I think that was probably the wrong call. Presumably they were worried about ending up with a seven couple final, with only one couple eliminated, but choosing to do it the way they did made it almost equally likely that they would get a four-couple final - also a non-optimal result.

If I were running things, I probably would have looked at the fourteen-couple field (who were already scheduled to run as a quarterfinal anyway), and just asked to bring back ten couples for a semi, rather than trying to cut them to exactly seven couples. There's just too much potential for ties, leading to exactly the problems they had, especially since there were only five judges in the first round. But hindsight is always 20-20.

(And for a final bit of speculation - does anyone know whether there was actually a couple 373 on the floor? They only got one mark, while couple 273 missed the first cut by one mark. If that mark was due to a typo, it would really suck for 273. In my experience, the most common errors for judges to make are to mix up the first digit of three digit numbers or to transpose the last two digits. Unfortunately, in most college comps, there's no time for catching and fixing that type of error.)

[Kitty]

this is an interesting issue you pointed out.

there are 17 couples listed.
actually danced the first round only 14

we can throw out one of the numbers since martones ended up dancing under a different number, not the one they were assigned
we can throw out david and liva's number as they didn't dance

we are left with one extra couple listed that didnt' actually dance the event.
could be any of the 2 couples that have no marks listed for them or the couple that another elizabeth pointed out with only one mark. I remember that I saw at least one of the couples that got no marks on the floor, dancing. so that means that there probably was no 373... unless it was another couple wiht no marks that didn't dance

I don't know if anyone besides me can make sense of my logic, but to me it seems another elizabeth has indeed found an error... which resulted in one less couple making the semi...
if there was one more couple in the semi, they probably would have asked for 6 couples to be recalled to the final... and then :-))))...

sucks for 273 though

[chrisjohnston]

Hi Katarzyna,I am sorry you did not like the music.I actually played the Viennese especially for you as I knew you had come from New York and when I Ifound it I decided to play some other so -called Classic tracks from the same album.(The Best of Ballroom Vol 4) As for photos ,we shall be posting all the Moses Goddard shots as soon as he has "fixed" the way people look in them.Cheers Chris

[Kitty]

Hi Katarzyna,I am sorry you did not like the music.I actually played the Viennese especially for you as I knew you had come from New York and when I Ifound it I decided to play some other so -called Classic tracks from the same album.(The Best of Ballroom Vol 4) As for photos ,we shall be posting all the Moses Goddard shots as soon as he has "fixed" the way people look in them.Cheers Chris

can't wait to see the photos! hope there are some of me as well!

[mamboqueen]

Hi :)

[Kitty]

Hi Katarzyna,I am sorry you did not like the music.I actually played the Viennese especially for you as I knew you had come from New York and when I Ifound it I decided to play some other so -called Classic tracks from the same album.(The Best of Ballroom Vol 4) As for photos ,we shall be posting all the Moses Goddard shots as soon as he has "fixed" the way people look in them.Cheers Chris
actually when I heard that viennese, thats what I thought - how nice for peopel from NY!
Thank you!

[Merrylegs]

Hi Katarzyna,I am sorry you did not like the music.I actually played the Viennese especially for you as I knew you had come from New York and when I Ifound it I decided to play some other so -called Classic tracks from the same album.(The Best of Ballroom Vol 4) As for photos ,we shall be posting all the Moses Goddard shots as soon as he has "fixed" the way people look in them.Cheers Chris

Oh, do you use Photoshop? You have my permission to improve any picture that someone from you studio may take of me. Ya know, younger looking, taller, etc. As long as you don't add Dracula fangs or give me cat eyes, go for it.

I've made myself skinnier in pictures. :-)

[RIdancer82]

just looked at results. It appears that they had separate judges for technique, presentation etc.. did anyone dance syllabus at Brown? If yes, how do you feel about this judging method?

I danced Silver level and I'm not quite sure how I felt about the method. It seems that in a perfect world, it could help prevent unfair judging. When you have couples who go out on the floor with very elaborate styling and routines but are lacking in technique, and other couples with less exciting routines, but are very technically proficient, this system could help prevent the first couple from beating the other one simply because they are "flashy". However, nothing's perfect and biases and politics can still play a part in judging. Having said that, I think the system was a good idea in theory, but in reality, it doesn't change much.

[NielsenE]

Notes from the scrutineer :)

1. Yes, Dale Bennet's marks were missing in the Open Paso. Its been correct in the on-line copy of the marks and the two affected coupled have been notified.

2. I think that Russell's expierment with the Technique,Presentation,Partnering was ... interesting. Most of the judges I talked to were strongly negative on it for early rounds, but thought it could work in semifinals and finals. Most said it was too hard to focus on just their assigned topic when the fields were still highly varied... IE should the presentation judge care if a couple is off-time, but looking great, etc. It greatly complicated the callbacks as the marks were much more scattered than I'm used to. The early newcomer rounds had a lot of very odd callbacks.... We wanted say 63 from 110 (pre-registered) and could do either 50 or 80. The deck captain reported just under 100 in the line. So we often had to "take less"... I hate doing that, but their schedule was already bursting. I would have preferred a five judge panel in the early rounds as that normally helps avoid this.... and Tim and I often had free time so we could have handled more judges.

3. The MC was not Kay, but Tracy and Jenette (sp). However, I agree that the speed-reading of numbers and the pre-mature music starting would feel identical to they way Kay often runs Harvard's Invitational. I also partly blame Mosely's for some of the problems -- its a horrible venue for a large competition. Insufficient seating, no useable practice area, and no good aisles for getting people on/off the floor quickly. Unless you're all piled up in the front you have a hard time hearing callbacks, so we always had missing couples, etc.

4. The funny cuts in Open Standard... Elizabeth basically already called it -- it started out being run as a 14 couple semi. Once it finished I was told "It wuld be nice if it needs an extra round." and yes the choice was 6 or 8.I informed the CoJ that 8 were recalled and he made the decision to run it as an 8 couple sesquafinal (sp).

5. I'm not sure what happened to some of the warm-ups. The schedule did show warm up for gold/open; however in most cases it seemed to end up being: call them to floor, count them, either run the event then or dismiss them until later. instead of the warm-up.... However, the MC's were having to deal with fitting in a LOT of extra rounds.... Anytime we caught up with the schedule we had to add 2-3 extra rounds it felt like.

6. The marks are on-line and have also been loaded into my Result Tracker (along with UConn and Harvard Beginner).

7. Brown probably needs to bite the bullet and either cut a pair of newcomer events or split to a two day event.

[Chris Stratton]

It is interesting that the major Boston fall comps, Brown and Tufts, are one day while the two major spring ones, Harvard and MIT are two. A greater wealth of first year events (for the crowd that does newcomer in fall, "bronze" in spring) is one explanation, particularly with the 19 dances at all levels tradition at MIT - but it may not be the whole story. BU fits in one day in the early spring, but perhaps does not get large out of town teams?

Cutting newcomer events would be unfortunate... much as they take tons of time and all those huge fields are the core and the future of the collegiate circuit and in a way need respect more than the open crowd does.

Would cutting the team match(es?) have made much difference?

[Katarzyna]

Hi Katarzyna,I am sorry you did not like the music.I actually played the Viennese especially for you as I knew you had come from New York and when I Ifound it I decided to play some other so -called Classic tracks from the same album.(The Best of Ballroom Vol 4) As for photos ,we shall be posting all the Moses Goddard shots as soon as he has "fixed" the way people look in them.Cheers ChrisI really don't remember the VWaltzes too well... One of the rounds when I danced I totally spaced out and don't remember at all.. not sure why ... perhaps it was the 3 hour sleep I got on the yoga mat since we run out or beds at our friends place.... I will check it when I see the tape... :) I remember there was one song I liked for Vw, but have no idea which round it was.. My mind went totally blank during some parts of the event.

:( sorry to be so critical.
It's not that I didn't like the music, but it just didn't move me. And I heard a lot of nice (nicer) pieces during the syllabus event... I think I was kind of dissapointed with some aspects of the event.. and it affected how I looked at the other aspects. It was like they just were rushing to get the event over with without any regard for the competitors...

[Kitty]

Cutting newcomer events would be unfortunate... much as they take tons of time and all those huge fields are the core and the future of the collegiate circuit and in a way need respect more than the open crowd does.

I agree abuot newcomers deserving all the best and being the future, but how would you cut an open event? you can either not have one at all, or you have to have all 5 dances

on the other hand if you can cut just one newcomer dance out of the program (cause they are not multidance events) and save time that way.

[Katarzyna]

I danced Silver level and I'm not quite sure how I felt about the method. It seems that in a perfect world, it could help prevent unfair judging. When you have couples who go out on the floor with very elaborate styling and routines but are lacking in technique, and other couples with less exciting routines, but are very technically proficient, this system could help prevent the first couple from beating the other one simply because they are "flashy". However, nothing's perfect and biases and politics can still play a part in judging. Having said that, I think the system was a good idea in theory, but in reality, it doesn't change much.Actually, i am curious if the judges were able to focus on just one aspect.... I am not sure I could if I evealuated a couple...

[NielsenE]

BU hasn't gathered the critical mass to explode yet, same as say UConn in the fall. Those are actually my preferred size of competitions, (I just hope that the Holy Cross event can reach that size and stop fluttering with extinction... their ballroom is just so beautiful.) BU is likely to be slightly smaller this year with its close proximity to the earlier Harvard inviational.

Cutting the team match would have saved some time: the march on, 3 rounds, was probably close to 90 minutes all told. The march on alone probably wasted about 20 minutes.... Of course at that time I was still catching up with the International Standard finals (the only session their wasn't a second scrutineer) so I wasn't too aware of what was happening around me, aside from the happy lack of new sheets arriving.

I agree that newcomer events shouldn't get cut; you know that I'm one of the most vocal proponents for them; but I feel the time-saving "rapid reading/early music" are worse for newcomers than losing an event would be. You don't want them feeling flustered and rushed and confused.

[NielsenE]

Actually, i am curious if the judges were able to focus on just one aspect.... I am not sure I could if I evealuated a couple...

I've been looking over the syllabus finals in the session that ran with 9 judges (3 on each) area (I think that was Rhythm and Standard). It looks like the marks in Technique are typically more correlated than "normal" while the other two show the "normal" variability, maybe even less correlation than "normal".

To me, this would suggest that the individual judges agreed more on what it means to judge technique alone and perhaps its a more objective section to judge. I suspect Partnering and Presentation are amorphous enough that even if the judges were solely focused on their interpretation of that section, its still highly subjective.


I think it would be a great thing to try again, restricting it to just Semis (everything before and after judged normally). I liked that the "Partnering" section gave a reason to avoid marking couples who look great but are dancing their routine without any real awareness of each other, simialrly for its floorcraft component. Thought I did see way too many collisions in the silver latin... Numerous couples doing three chas through/into other couples fans, repeatedly.

[Kitty]

I agree that newcomer events shouldn't get cut; you know that I'm one of the most vocal proponents for them; but I feel the time-saving "rapid reading/early music" are worse for newcomers than losing an event would be. You don't want them feeling flustered and rushed and confused.

yes that's what I was thinknig too.
Loosing an event is unfortunate, but the way the comp was run (I can only speak for the open standard really, but assuming other events were run in a similar manner) is just not acceptable.

It is very disappointing when you go to a comp and in your only event or two, you feel you didn't get your full chance to dance cause the music started and ended too early.

[Kitty]

It is interesting that the major Boston fall comps, Brown and Tufts, are one day while the two major spring ones, Harvard and MIT are two. A greater wealth of first year events (for the crowd that does newcomer in fall, "bronze" in spring) is one explanation, particularly with the 19 dances at all levels tradition at MIT - but it may not be the whole story. BU fits in one day in the early spring, but perhaps does not get large out of town teams?

hmm and the one fall comp that people regard as well-organized - DCDI - is a two day event!

[Katarzyna]

hmm and the one fall comp that people regard as well-organized - DCDI - is a two day event!I thought DCDI was one day?

[fenixx]

I think the newcomers, dancing only one dance in standard and latin, don't have much to go in terms of cutting. One of the issues I have with the Brown comp is that it is run on a Sunday in a small space. Running it on a saturday in a more accomidating space would greatly improve round quality and time allotment. The comp ended at 8 PM which is early for a competition, but because it is on a Sunday, you need to end by then to get everyone home at a descent hour. If the comp were held on a Saturday, you can run the events past 10PM, giving you lots more time. Also, adding more judges in a larger space will allow you to run good size rounds for the newcomers and help ensure enough eyes are catching the deserving dancers.

As for Open competitors, I do not think their events should be held at the end of the level on long day comps that do not have a show. The Open Latin and Open Standard should be the show. This will help draw better competition throughout the higher levels and gives the less experienced dancers an opportunity to see where they can go.

[Katarzyna]

As for Open competitors, I do not think their events should be held at the end of the level on long day comps that do not have a show. The Open Latin and Open Standard should be the show. This will help draw better competition throughout the higher levels and gives the less experienced dancers an opportunity to see where they can go.I totally agree with yo on this one. Actually the e-mail I sent to Brown that I never hear any response to was regarding this exact thing. I was trying to find out if they will run open at the end of each category or in the evening for all open divisions. I was hoping to drive up to boston on the day of the comp... but that was impossible since the standard was run so early.

On another note last year the event made me really tense. I remembet hearing that we will be dancing next, I still didn't have hair or makup or gown on. I run out on the floor. They decided to just count us and run the event later.. but that kind of got me really nervous...

[Kitty]

brown only offered one dance for newcomers in each style? Thats not a lot, no way to cut. That means that bronze or silver could be the ones that are cut. Can't imagine cutting an open event...

Chris also had a suggestion to cut the team match...

I wouldn't want to be dancing my open event at the end of the day on a Sunday. If it is a show, it should be run sometime during the day/early afternoon.

[fenixx]

Yes, I agree about open being at a designated time of the day; probably around mid-afternoon to allow for travel and preparation. They should separate these events and treat these competitors with the respect they deserve. They put a lot into competition and the performance. So rushing them is not the way to get a good draw of talent. Treating them well, even using money that might go to a show and using it as a scholarship, would also help. When you have good top level dancers and a large newcomer and bronze base the rest will fill in.

[NielsenE]

As for Open competitors, I do not think their events should be held at the end of the level on long day comps that do not have a show. The Open Latin and Open Standard should be the show. This will help draw better competition throughout the higher levels and gives the less experienced dancers an opportunity to see where they can go.

This is one of the things that I think there is no winning on. If you run an open block you typically either waste a great deal of time to give adequate rest periods and allowing for costume changes. Its especially bad for the competitions with a unified open level as there is nothing to interleave. Plus the 10-dancers (or the almost extinct 14-,15-, 19-dances) hate it if you can't give them a decent about of time between their events.

I also hate it when the advanced dancers from a team only show up for a few hours and then disappear. Theres no team spirit or support.

[Kitty]

Eric, that's a good point about 10 or 9 dancers.

what if you run awards between the rounds of open?

[Kitty]

I thought DCDI was one day?

it is a two-day event

[Katarzyna]

I also hate it when the advanced dancers from a team only show up for a few hours and then disappear. Theres no team spirit or support.I see your point, but is it really displaying "team spirit" if the advanced dancers at there during the day only because they have no choice?

[fenixx]

I understand that, but there is something to be said about making the open competitors wait a large amount of time to compete. Doing a before lunch and after lunch open isn't bad either. Yes, the 19 dancer probably wouldn't be able to perform in such an event where you might do open Rhythm and Open Standard before lunch, and open Latin and open smooth after lunch. Maybe you even run the gold or pre-champ in between.

keeping people around to cheer is good, but that is not a good enough reason to hold them to the end of an event. By the time open latin came around most people had left brown already. I am sure many would have rather seen that than the team match.

[Joe]

recreationally only, and not too frequently. I had a really bad rollerblading accident, and now I get afraid where I go fast :(
Afraid you'll get injured and be unable to dance for a while? ;)

[Joe]

Wow, it sounds like this comp was a mess!! Next time you should come to DCDI, which was excellently--but quite tardily--run:)
FTFY. ;)

[Joe]

Brown probably needs to bite the bullet and either cut a pair of newcomer events or split to a two day event.
Or take a page from the MAC handbook...

[Joe]

This is one of the things that I think there is no winning on. If you run an open block you typically either waste a great deal of time to give adequate rest periods and allowing for costume changes. Its especially bad for the competitions with a unified open level as there is nothing to interleave. Plus the 10-dancers (or the almost extinct 14-,15-, 19-dances) hate it if you can't give them a decent about of time between their events.
The "open block" seemed to work quite smoothly at DCDI. Perhaps the small number of American Style entries helped make it so, but...

[Katarzyna]

Afraid you'll get injured and be unable to dance for a while? ;)Actually, I'm just really afraid of pain

[Chris Stratton]

You can't run an efficient "open block" with one-level open without making life very difficult for 10-dancers (and 19 dancers who can settle on just two costumes). It's not like you have a senior II rhythm to schedule in the gap, all you have that doesn't conflict are syllabus events, and they might as well be in the same style.

The concept of putting all the finals last could be broken, and open finals possibly run earlier in the same session if they have fewer rounds...

On open dancers showing up midmorning and leaving midafternoon... guilty I guess. Looking at the field though, less than half still have any meaningfull involvement with college teams on a regular basis. The open events, and even to a degree upper syllabus, start to look more like regular amateur events in their makeup. As the system has developed, we may be getting to the point where the higher level events are for the most part beyond the range where a tightly integrated team is really effective. Teams have also grown... one or two advanced couples per style on a team is an asset, more than that may not really have room to be heavily involved with the lower level dancers, since there can be a lot of turf battles in the larger teams. Many of these things, while in a way breakdowns, are symptoms of the success of the system in doing what it needs to at the fundamental levels. Another thing to note are the number of lasting friendships across team boundaries and amongst the independents.

[RIdancer82]

6. The marks are on-line and have also been loaded into my Result Tracker (along with UConn and Harvard Beginner).

I see that UConn has been loaded into the results tracker, but the actual results (with judges marks and all) don't seem to be posted... any idea how long till those are posted? Especially since not all competitors (some of which even made finals) are not listed in the results through the tracker.

[Another Elizabeth]

I think the newcomers, dancing only one dance in standard and latin, don't have much to go in terms of cutting.
There are more dances offered for newcomer in American style than in international - it would be possible to cut those (although not necessarily advisable).

[Chris Stratton]

Would not have to cut all of the newcomer american dances, I assume by a pair Eric meant one each from the smooth and rhythm which would leave two each for six total.

Worth noting is that Brown is the first four style, full-teams local competition expeience for Boston/Providence newcomers - Harvard seems to have gone back to the traditional newcomer american focus (for the fall comp) after past experiments. Of course it's worthwhile for them to go down to UConn the weekend before, but the greater the distance, the fewer the numbers who try it.

It's not quite clear what else Brown could cut though - team matches would save a little. Open has never expanded past a single division, without dual registration permitted. Short of eliminating or combining some of the post-newcomer levels of american styles, there's just not much way to stay in a single day.

[NielsenE]

I see that UConn has been loaded into the results tracker, but the actual results (with judges marks and all) don't seem to be posted... any idea how long till those are posted? Especially since not all competitors (some of which even made finals) are not listed in the results through the tracker.

I wasn't the scrutineer at UConn; all I got wass a result summary from their scrutineer which didn't have mark/individual judge placement information. Hence what's up there is probably all that there is, unless UConn is doing any sort of scanning the printout they might have

Regarding the people who aren't in the tracker -- that's almost always caused by them dancing under a different number and/or a late add. If I don't have names for them I can't assign them results...

[NielsenE]

There are more dances offered for newcomer in American style than in international - it would be possible to cut those (although not necessarily advisable).

Yes I was implying that they'd need to explore cutting a dance from each of Smooth and Rhythm, or splitting to two days. Cutting the team match could also work, but given its history with their team I doubt they'd consider it. (The event is named in honor of their deceased coach.)

In either case cutting events or the team match would only be a stop-gap measure buying them about one year of "non-stressed" schedule until the enrollments push it back into the rush mode -- especially if the higher levels continue their slight growth. The number of new teams popping up is amazing with multiple high schools and community colleges showing up to competitions as first timers -- if any of those teams grow and thrive to next year we could see a very significant spike in newcomers (as we've seen the past 2-3 years already).

Changing the event to saturday and going a little latter could also help buy some slack. Being willing to run late rather than rush should also be something that MCs and CoJs are more lenient on, as long as there isn't a hard and fast "we must leave the venue by N" deadline in the contract with the venue, etc

[Kitty]

Brown pictures are up! Yay!
lots of very nice pictures of Kat, and several pictures of me.

Thank you, Supershag, so much!
my first pictures with this partner!

[Katarzyna]

Kitty, thank you for letting me know, thank you supershag

[Kitty]

Kitty, thank you for letting me know, thank you supershag

waiting to see how fast you will change your avatar...:-)

[Katarzyna]

waiting to see how fast you will change your avatar...:-)Maybe I will keep this one for a while

[chrisjohnston]

Glad you appreciated the photos.Moses puts a lot of effort into "touching up" his work.If any of you are coming to Ohio check out some more of his photos that are being displayed at the Global Booth in the lobby outside the main ballroom.Cheers Chris

[Katarzyna]

Glad you appreciated the photos.Moses puts a lot of effort into "touching up" his work.If any of you are coming to Ohio check out some more of his photos that are being displayed at the Global Booth in the lobby outside the main ballroom.Cheers ChrisAgain, Thank you!

[Kitty]

new avatar, Kat!:-)

[Katarzyna]

new avatar, Kat!:-)kitty, you should call your partner, he's been looking everywhere (sorry to use public forum)

[IlyZislin]

I thought DCDI was one day?
DCDI is a two day comp, however all of Open (smooth, rhythm, standard and latin) is on Saturday night.

[Chris_Broderick]

Chris suggested I add my thoughts on the newcomer portion of this competition, so here are my observations. (Sorry if anything has been said earlier, I didn't read the entire thread)

I thought the music choices were poor. Many of the songs had hard to hear beats, and the music itself wasn't clearly audible from all spots on the floor. One song (don't recall which heat, but was a chacha song in theory) was particularly bad.

The floor itself was too small for the number of people on it at any given time. I understand the newcomer group is extremely large, but having 20+ couples doing waltz on that floor was absurd. I was nearly knocked down when I was hit by two other couples at the same time in a multi-couple pileup in one corner. Also, the area in front of the judges was a tight spot, and had some issues there as well - especially with the judges standing there and speakers right there also.

The biggest problem I felt was that I felt rushed, and recalls were read much too quickly to hear, and they'd need to stop and restart the music because there were missing couples on the floor. I also think the warmup room that was downstairs needed a speaker from the floor to hear callbacks and what not from down there.

The judging system seemed flawed also. I'm not sure how a judge can ignore something they see and don't like when it's their job to judge something else. There were far too many couples on the floor for that to work. I think the system would work for smaller groups, maybe semi's and finals, but using it for the first rounds where 40-60 couples get cut is just too much to see in a few seconds.

Overall, the comp went well I thought, but those were the issues I noticed as a newcomer who's only been to a few comp's. If anything else comes to mind I'll add them later.

~Chris

[Merrylegs]

Overall, the comp went well I thought, but those were the issues I noticed as a newcomer who's only been to a few comp's. If anything else comes to mind I'll add them later.

~Chris

(SNIP)

Chris, this is good feedback. Does anyone know if the Brown Comp organizers are reading any of this stuff?

[Katarzyna]

(SNIP)

Chris, this is good feedback. Does anyone know if the Brown Comp organizers are reading any of this stuff?I doubt it... They don't even respond to e-mails.. And they should, there really is a lot of good feedback and comments they should take into account...

[Chris Stratton]

The organizers may not be the necessary target: in a lot of cases, once the competition opens it is handed over to hired/recruited staff and the organizers have little ongoing role... in only a few cases (MIT, Harvard to an increasing extent, perhaps some others) are the organizers able to maintain actual control during the competition. One of the reasons for that is that it takes a large team to both run the competition and dance in it, and it takes a team with a lot of long-term members to build up the experience to do the key jobs.

This isn't to say that it's necessarily the outside run staff's fault either - they can very easily be handed an impossible set of circumstances (not enough time to run the competition properly). But there is a real structural problem when one group plans the competition and a different group runs it, because the cross communication between planning goals and execution experience is lacking.

[chrisjohnston]

As the D.J at the comp I would like to thank you all for your input.Chris Broderick mentioned that the selection was poor so I would like to know if that was the American or International or both.In the Rhythm I played a lot of new music which seemed to get a strange reaction from some people.In the Standard I played it really safe and people called it boring.It really helps me if you can let me know about specific songs and then I can decide if we use it again(I personally like the Spiderman quickstep).
The floor is a strange shape so we are limited as to where we can position speakers.Next year we will probably bring more and if there are any sound engineers out there please help me with your suggestions.
No-body has mentioned the fact that the comp ran on time which I think should count for something
The judging system in my opinion does not work even in the finals
Anyway I would love to write more but my dog is ill and I have to take him to the vet.Cheers Chris

[Chris Stratton]

sorry, no credit for running on time when you use unnaceptable means to do it - Brown is going to need to go to two days, or cut events.

nothing, neither speakers nor judges belongs in front of the stage at moseley's - it's just too narrow

spiderman quickstep was a little undignified, but not problematic... "boring" is a complaint of preference, while "can't hear the beat" is a complaint of problem. in general competitions are not a time to try any new music, without first testing it on the type of dancers involved...

[Joe]

I like the Spiderman song. It's fun. Who the heck doesn't want dancing to be more fun?

...does whatever a spider can...

[chrisjohnston]

Well once again I apologise for the poor choices but I would like to point out that we did not use the comp to try out new music.The music had already been tryed either by us or other professional competition djs but was new to the bulk of the people attending the comp.While Chris Stratten has suggested that the speakers cannot be in front of the stage please give me some ideas as to where they should be placed.Chris if you would also like to give me some music choices then I shall consider playing them at the Harvard comp.Please also let me know any other suggestions for Harvard as I shall be helping advise them on running the event.Cheers Chris

[Another Elizabeth]

Well once again I apologise for the poor choices but I would like to point out that we did not use the comp to try out new music.The music had already been tryed either by us or other professional competition djs but was new to the bulk of the people attending the comp.While Chris Stratten has suggested that the speakers cannot be in front of the stage please give me some ideas as to where they should be placed.Chris if you would also like to give me some music choices then I shall consider playing them at the Harvard comp.Please also let me know any other suggestions for Harvard as I shall be helping advise them on running the event.Cheers Chris
I wasn't at Brown, but when I've officiated at competitions at Moseley's, we've either used long speaker wires to get the speakers all the way to the corners, or we've put them on the stage, instead of in front of it. Both of these solutions are less convenient for the officials, but more convenient for the dancers. I think that in such tradeoffs, convenience for the dancers should be more important. In many cases (and I'm not talking about you, Chris), long-time competition officials seem to feel that the point of competitions is for them, instead of for the dancers.