For those who prefer Power 2(Palladium on2)

[shdni]

I have no idea which on2 do u guys dance,I do Power 2,I guess most of ppl from NYC do the ET on2.

Whatever,I wanna share a file here to those who wanna learn Power 2,I think it is very helpful.(It's a PDF file)

Before u download it,I have to declare this file is made from dancestudent.com,they have the rights to explain anything,lol.

The url for download:

3.eop.cn/contentPane.aspx?down=ok&filename=on2_mambo.pdf&filepath=%2fon2_mambo.pdf

(Sorry I just noticed a problem in this url,no matter how I modified it,the word "filepath" after the "&" always break up,I guess u should change it first)

[itorres]

Try here:

http://www.dancestudent.com/On2_Mambo.pdf

[itorres]

I had seen this document before. Now after reviewing it again I must point out that they describe the measure as containing 8 counts. This is not accurate.

Technical Note: Salsa music is written in 4/4 time (pronounced four by four), meaning that there are 4 beats to a measure (the 4 on top) and that the quarter note in the music staff will get the duration of one beat (the 4 on the bottom). Contrast this with 3/4 time as, let's say, a Waltz in which there are 3 beats to a measure - every third beat is accented.The Salsa basic step and the clave pattern takes place over a duration of two measures having four beats. That is where the counting 1 to 8 comes from. It is sometims called a dancer's phrase or dancer's measure, but they are two separate musical measures. A measure is often also called a "bar" even though the "bar" is the line in the music staff that divides one measure from the next.

I also found a glaring omission in the example of the Conga rhythm given to help find the "2". They present a clip of the Conga hits on 4,4& and 8,8& and omit the Conga slap that almost invariably hits on the "2". :confused: If you're trying to show where the "2" is why not play the slap in the example?

I found the following gem in the Berklee music site (there are more there too). It is a Quicktime video explaining the basic Conga pattern with the full count as it is being played. Notice how the only slap in the pattern occurs precisely on the "2". Also notice that accents are on the 2, 4, 4&....that is one of the arguments for stepping 2-3-4 as you step on two of those accents. If you step 1-2-3 you only step on one of them.

http://www.berkleeshares.com/drums__percussion/afrocuban_conga_rhythms

If you match your first step to this slap you'll be dancing Power 2. If you can count the 8 beats in your head and listen for the slaps (2 and 6) as a confirmation that you're on the right timing, that's all you need. There's no need to think about the Clave pattern. Dancing "En Clave" just means you step first on the 2.

I hope this helps a bit to shed some light on the music and notation...

[shdni]

I also found a glaring omission in the example of the Conga rhythm given to help find the "2". They present a clip of the Conga hits on 4,4& and 8,8& and omit the Conga slap that almost invariably hits on the "2". :confused: If you're trying to show where the "2" is why not play the slap in the example?

I found the following gem in the Berklee music site (there are more there too). It is a Quicktime video explaining the basic Conga pattern with the full count as it is being played. Notice how the only slap in the pattern occurs precisely on the "2". Also notice that accents are on the 2, 4, 4&....that is one of the arguments for stepping 2-3-4 as you step on two of those accents. If you step 1-2-3 you only step on one of them.

If you match your first step to this slap you'll be dancing Power 2. If you can count the 8 beats in your head and listen for the slaps (2 and 6) as a confirmation that you're on the right timing, that's all you need. There's no need to think about the Clave pattern. Dancing "En Clave" just means you step first on the 2.

I hope this helps a bit to shed some light on the music and notation...

Thank u for such a nice video clip,I learn a lot from it.
Yes,u r rite,the slaps hit on the 2nd(6th) beat,and if we break on the slaps,the whole thing becomes very easy then,but why the PDF file still ask us to hear the conga drum to start or stay on 2?
I think although the slaps just hit on 2(6),but it is not that easy to identify from a complex salsa music with a lot of other instruments mixed comparing to conga drum.Conga drum is more reliable,isn't it?
And another reason is if u hear the 2 and then dance on it,there must be a delay time,that means u can find the right beat,but then ur cerebra sends the dictate to ur muscle and then ur muscle carries out the dictate,this whole process costs time and when u really break,it is not on 2 but somewhere after 2.By hearing the conga drum,u can easily find 4( 8 ),then we pause(hold) 5(1) and break on 6(2).So this method gives u enough time to prepare and complete ur moves.The more accurate explanation here is we r waiting for the 2 to come and break on it.

Hey,guys,it seems that we r not talking about dance,like proving a theorem,Jesus Christ.

[itorres]

Thank u for such a nice video clip,I learn a lot from it.
Yes,u r rite,the slaps hit on the 2nd(6th) beat,and if we break on the slaps,the whole thing becomes very easy then,but why the PDF file still ask us to hear the conga drum to start or stay on 2?
I think although the slaps just hit on 2(6),but it is not that easy to identify from a complex salsa music with a lot of other instruments mixed comparing to conga drum.Conga drum is more reliable,isn't it?
It seems you are talking of the slap and the Conga independently, as different instruments. The "slap" refers to hitting the Conga with a flat hand and not letting it resonate. If you think of the sound of "Cun- Cun - PA" the PA is the Conga Slap on the 2.
And another reason is if u hear the 2 and then dance on it,there must be a delay time,that means u can find the right beat,but then ur cerebra sends the dictate to ur muscle and then ur muscle carries out the dictate,this whole process costs time and when u really break,it is not on 2 but somewhere after 2.By hearing the conga drum,u can easily find 4( 8 ),then we pause(hold) 5(1) and break on 6(2).So this method gives u enough time to prepare and complete ur moves.The more accurate explanation here is we r waiting for the 2 to come and break on it.
Well, the process is not waiting to hear and then step. You feel the overall beat, the speed at which sounds are coming around and your body matches that tempo. I'd say the Conga slap is a landmark letting you know where you are in the sequence. Hey,guys,it seems that we r not talking about dance,like proving a theorem,Jesus Christ. :) It looks complicated at the beginning, particularly for people who haven't had music training. Whoever doesn't know what a measure is, how there are beats (quarter notes) and there are notes (eights) in between the beats, how many beats in a measure and how to describe or notate them could find it overwhelming.

We're not really proving anything. We are just describing what goes on, how we dance, how we see others dancing and what the instruments are doing. It's just a language for describing the music and rhythm. When you learn it, it is a way simplifying things not complicate them.

[shdni]

It seems you are talking of the slap and the Conga independently, as different instruments. The "slap" refers to hitting the Conga with a flat hand and not letting it resonate. If you think of the sound of "Cun- Cun - PA" the PA is the Conga Slap on the 2.

Well, the process is not waiting to hear and then step. You feel the overall beat, the speed at which sounds are coming around and your body matches that tempo. I'd say the Conga slap is a landmark letting you know where you are in the sequence. :) It looks complicated at the beginning, particularly for people who haven't had music training. Whoever doesn't know what a measure is, how there are beats (quarter notes) and there are notes (eights) in between the beats, how many beats in a measure and how to describe or notate them could find it overwhelming.

I found the defination of Tumbao from salsanewyork.com saying:
"The tumbao refers to the rhythms accented by the conga drum player in mainstream classic salsa music. Specifically, the conga is struck with 2 quick beats and then a 3rd "slap", usually on the outer edge or rim of the drum, in the pattern of quick-quick-slow. Sometimes this is audible in both 4 beat measures, and sometimes only in the first measure. The 2 quick beats are on "8 and..." (actually, 8 and 8 1/2), and on "4 and ..." (actually, 4 and 4 1/2). These 2 quick beats serve as a lead-in to the 1st and 5th beats of the measure, the 2 heavy downbeats that we step on when dancing On 2. In fact, when the 2 quick beats of the tumbao are very clear, they have the effect of "rushing us" into the 1 and 5 steps, making us hit them more emphatically and, sometimes, slightly early, which gives our style of dancing a snap and quickness in the look and feel.
Sometimes the "slap", or the "slow" hit of the tumbao is not audible. But when it can be heard, it is often the heavier and more emphatic sound coming from the conga drum. That sound comes on the 2nd beat of the measure. This means that if the tumbao sound can be heard during both 4 beat measures making up the 8 beats we dance to, then the strongest points of emphasis are on the 2nd and 6th beats, which is where we "break", or change our body movement direction, when we dance On 2. "

Yes,first I shouldn't talk "conga drum sound" without the "slap",they r a complete unit.I should describe it as the "2 quick beats",lol.
But the slap is not always audible in the music,in this case,we have to rely on the 2 quick beats to check where we r.

[itorres]

I found the defination of Tumbao from salsanewyork.com saying:
"The 2 quick beats are on "8 and..." (actually, 8 and 8 1/2), and on "4 and ..." (actually, 4 and 4 1/2). These 2 quick beats serve as a lead-in to the 1st and 5th beats of the measure, the 2 heavy downbeats that we step on when dancing On 2. In fact, when the 2 quick beats of the tumbao are very clear, they have the effect of "rushing us" into the 1 and 5 steps, making us hit them more emphatically and, sometimes, slightly early, which gives our style of dancing a snap and quickness in the look and feel.
Sometimes the "slap", or the "slow" hit of the tumbao is not audible. But when it can be heard, it is often the heavier and more emphatic sound coming from the conga drum. That sound comes on the 2nd beat of the measure. This means that if the tumbao sound can be heard during both 4 beat measures making up the 8 beats we dance to, then the strongest points of emphasis are on the 2nd and 6th beats, which is where we "break", or change our body movement direction, when we dance On 2. "

Yes,first I shouldn't talk "conga drum sound" without the "slap",they r a complete unit.I should describe it as the "2 quick beats",lol.
But the slap is not always audible in the music,in this case,we have to rely on the 2 quick beats to check where we r. Well, I might perform a random sampling of Salsa music later on and check on the percentage of songs where the Slap is audible. :D A good "trick" to use is to continue the "Cun - Cun- PA" rhythm in our mind...you'll notice that most of the time the slap, a bongo hit, one hit of the clave or something is there.

Note: The salsanewyork.com site is dedicated eclusively to Eddie Torres On 2 style. In fact, when the 2 quick beats of the tumbao are very clear, they have the effect of "rushing us" into the 1 and 5 steps, making us hit them more emphatically and, sometimes, slightly early, See, they talk about stepping on 1 and 5. Remember this thread was about Power 2.
We have to be careful about interpreting when people say On 2, if they don't specify ET 2 or Power 2 we'd have to ask them. Unless we know where they are from and/or what they dance. This is a pet peeve of mine :roll: . People sometimes don't realize there's another "On 2" besides theirs.

[shdni]

Hey,Itorres,u r almost a professor here,one more question.
Is there any problem for a Power 2 dancer dancing with ET 2 dancer?

In ET on 2:
1&5 close
2&6 break step
3&7 step in place
4&8 pause

In Power 2:
1&5 pause
2&6 break step
3&7 step in place
4&8 close

Have u ever noticed Milton Cobo,which on2 does he do usually?

I will give u one of his video clips here:

media.putfile.com/BA3253

[itorres]

Is there any problem for a Power 2 dancer dancing with ET 2 dancer?
Have u ever noticed Milton Cobo,which on2 does he do usually?
I will give u one of his video clips here:
media.putfile.com/BA3253
I haven't danced with an ET 2 dancer, but I've heard they should be able to dance together without a problem. Given the different timing I would expect that 3rd step when P2 steps 4 and ET2 steps 5 would not feel as nice as if they stepped together.

I've heard Milton Cobo's name before. Is he the maximum expression of ET2 style?
He is steppiing 1-2-3,5-6-7. ET2. Actually he's keeping a crisper timing than most other ET2 dancers I've seen. Some seem to waver and not step on the beat. Particularly that 1 and 5 steps are sometimes hurried into 8& and 4&, and that's not bad as long as it's done consciously and not by accident. :)

[shdni]

I will give u more to watch ( I am a big fan of Milton Cobo,lol)

http://media.putfile.com/nyc36

http://media.putfile.com/nyc3543

[shdni]

http://media.putfile.com/nyc25

http://media.putfile.com/nyc24

http://media.putfile.com/nyc23

[shdni]

http://media.putfile.com/nyc22

http://media.putfile.com/nyc14

http://media.putfile.com/nyc632

itorres,I still think Milton in the video was doing Power 2,especially the one "nyc22".in this video,pay attention to another couple on the top right of the screen,they r very obvious ET 2 style,they stepped on 1( 5 ) and paused on 4& ( 8& );But Milton stepped on 4& ( 8& ) obviously.


In the end,recommend a salsa radio station,very good music inside.

http://www.100-percentsalsa.com/100percentsalsa.htm