Just what is a ballroom dance?

[Spitfire]

As I best understand it ballroom actually refers to the smooth dances - waltz, foxtrot, tango and I think quick step. It is one of a subset; the others being latin and swing.

The term ballroom does seem to be used loosely though and I have come to believe that it's thought of as any dancing between two partners where contact is used as a means of lead and follow and requires instruction and practice to become proficient at.

[pygmalion]

Hmm, spitfire. Is this another one of those shifting perception things? Meaning, to a lindy-hopper, rumba is ballroom. To some ballroom people, only smooth/standard dances are ballroom, where rumba, cha cha, etc. are considered rhythm or Latin. Does it depend on the perspective? Or is there an official definition somewhere? It's probably worth a google, so I will. :D

[SDsalsaguy]

Yes, "ballroom" can be used in two different ways... (1) in the general sense of all ballroom dancing, and (2) the Standard/Smooth dances.

Spitfire... you left out Viennese Waltz, and while quickstep is a Standard/Modern dance it is *not* a Smooth dance. The competitive divisions of ballroom are as follows:

Int. Latin -- Cha Cha, Rumba, Samba, Paso Doble, Jive
Int. Ballroom -- Waltz, Tango, Fox Trot, Viennese Waltz, Quickstep
American Rhythm -- Cha Cha, Rumba, ECS, Bolero, Mambo
American Smooth/Ballroom -- Waltz, Tango, Fox Trot, Viennese Waltz

Notice that there is no "swing" category. Many ballroom studios and instructors also teach such dances as WCS, salsa, etc., but – in the strictest sense – these really aren't ballroom dances.

[pygmalion]

Cool. 8) You saved me valuable googling time and resources. :lol: (I need to go find some new topics! :lol: ) As you mentioned, just to add to the confusion, people will sometimes lump in all sorts of other partner dances. For example, at my comp last week, hustle, WCS, and several other technically speaking non-ballroom dances were all lumped in under rhythm/Latin dances. Don't ask me why. And at "ballroom" studios in the West or Southwest, many country western dances, such as two-step, country waltz, etc, often outnumber "true" ballroom dances in the number of students. :?

[Spitfire]

Spitfire... you left out Viennese Waltz, and while quickstep is a Standard/Modern dance it is *not* a Smooth dance. The competitive divisions of ballroom are as follows:

No, not really; I was thinking of both when I said Waltz.

[Spitfire]

Hmm, spitfire. Is this another one of those shifting perception things? Meaning, to a lindy-hopper, rumba is ballroom. To some ballroom people, only smooth/standard dances are ballroom, where rumba, cha cha, etc. are considered rhythm or Latin. Does it depend on the perspective? Or is there an official definition somewhere? It's probably worth a google, so I will. :D

There is probably an official definintion somewhere, but to put this another way I think that any dance taught in a studio is often loosely termed as a ballroom dance; at least that's been my impression.

[Frodo]

I've generally thought of the term Ballroom to be an abbreviation of Ballroom [and Latin [American]].

As an abbreviation it would cover the ten (international) dances, but not WCS, ECS, Lindy, LeRoc, Salsa, Argentine Tango etc.

[msc]

As an abbreviation it would cover the ten (international) dances

Plus the nine American style dances (Smooth + Rhythm,) at least here in the USA.

What's LeRoc? Never heard of that one.

[Spitfire]

LeRoc?

I've never heard of it either.

[SDsalsaguy]

Plus the nine American style dances (Smooth + Rhythm,) at least here in the USA.
Which is why, at least in North America, it includes ECS (but not WCS, etc).

Also, to say that Waltz includes Viennese is rather similar to failing to differentiate between Slow Foxtrot and Quickstep....

[Sagitta]

Is Argentine tango included in ballroom, similar to how we have jive for international and ECS for American, or do both the international and American styles do American tango, the dance with the 5 step basic? If they do what's the difference, stylistically, between International and American?

Also, I've never heard the LeRoc. Sounds interesting. What's that Frodo?

[SDsalsaguy]

AT is actually separate from both International and American style tango and is not considered a ballroom dance. The international tango, unlike the American, does not actually have a set basic step. Stylistically the biggest difference, of course, is that – as with all international ballroom dances – the couple never breaks frame. There is also a difference in dance tempi with American tango at 120-128 bpm and international at 128-132 bpm.

[msc]

International Tango is generally sharper than American Tango. It tends to have a very, very, very aggressive look. AT is a completely different animal.

Interestingly enough, there is a "five step" in Int'l Tango, but it's a gold level move, generally used to turn a corner.

[Frodo]

What's LeRoc? Never heard of that one.
LeRoc?
I've never heard of it either.
Also, I've never heard the LeRoc

I should have used the more generic term 'Modern Jive'. You may have heard of 'Ceroc' which is a major trademarked form of 'Modern Jive'. LeRoc is the non-trademarked form dominant in my area.

Regardless of the naming it grew out of French style Jive imported into the UK in the 1980's and adapted. I think it is mostly danced in the UK, Australia and New Zealand.

It is a very accessible dance, with little emphasis on footwork, that can be danced to a wide range of music.

Without LeRoc I would have an awful lot less dancing options - 'Modern Jive' is probably comparable to Salsa in popularity here, with nothing else close.

[MadamSamba]

Saggita, here in Australia, Argentine Tango is considered Street Latin, which also includes Salsa, Merengue and Jive and Rock 'n Roll for some odd reason, probably the same reason Jive is lumped into Latin. The coolest medals to do and watch are the Street Latin medals! They're awesome fun to learn.

[pygmalion]

Street Latin medals? Huh? Things must be different here. can anyone clarify? Are you talking about the one dance exams, like the ones administered by the ISTD?

[Sagitta]

Saggita, here in Australia, Argentine Tango is considered Street Latin, which also includes Salsa, Merengue and Jive and Rock 'n Roll for some odd reason, probably the same reason Jive is lumped into Latin.

I can definitely see how Argentine Tango, salsa and merengue would be considered Street Latin, BUT Jive and Rock 'n Roll....? Jive cannot be ballroom jive, but the modern jive that is popular in Europe, and that can be danced to any music that is relatively fast, with a 4/4 count, so latin muisc could ba danced to it. Am I correct? Then does Rock 'n Roll refer to latin pop/rock music?

At the latin club I go to it is a lot of fun watching the dramatically different styles of the good dancers. I can see how it would be a lot of fun watching street latin competitions. :)

[DancingMommy]

And lest we forget the American Smooth alternative to Quickstep..... The Peabody! Although I've *never* seen it danced and I've only heard of it by way of my old dance albums from the 50s (and of course the regulation syllabi).

Is Peabody still danced anymore and if so where? :lol:

[DanceMentor]

It's pretty much a gold level dance taught at franchise studios for the most part. To give you an idea, it is very much like a travelling, smooth merengue (one step to every beat at a fast tempo).

Oh...and welcome to the forums, DancingMommy!

[pygmalion]

And it has a sort of bouncy appearance to it. I've seen ads for a couple dance camps in upstate New York where Peabody is taught. It's a way fun dance, and so, so fast. It reaminds me a lot of quickstep, actually -- just not as smooth.

[Blondie]

Whenever I mention to non-dancing friends that I compete in ballroom dancing, they always respond with "Oh that's nice. Such nice slow dances." They're thinking primarily of slow waltzes until I fill them in. I start talking about the rhythm and Latin dances that are included, as well as the others that have been mentioned in this forum (smooth and standard). Anyway, I've found a common perception that ballroom dancing means slow waltzes and nothing else. As a serious competitor, I take it to mean smooth, standard, rhythm, and Latin dances. :)

[Sagitta]

Welcome to the forums Blondie!! :D I agree that many people think waltz when you say "ballroom dance". We are very happy to have another experienced ballroom dancer join our forums, and participate in our discussions. I look forward to seeing you around. :)

[dancin_feet]

The studio I go to has their syllabus split up thus:

Ballroom / Latin
Tango, Waltz, Foxtrot, Cha Cha, Rumba, Swing, Triple Swing (similar to Jive)

South American
Merengue, Argentine Tango, Samba, Salsa, Mambo, Lambada

South American would probably therefore be classed more as street latin and the ballroom / latin is more the ballroom style (if that makes sense), though in competitions samba is considered latin.

Depends on your perspective, I guess.

[GGinrhinestones]

Re-awakening an old thread...

So, I have six definitions for the term "ballroom" (in somewhat increasing specificity). Any others out there?

1. All-inclusive term for any partner dancing typically taught in a ballroom studio
2. Any of the American style (nine-dance) or International style (ten-dance) competitive dances.
3. Any of the American Smooth or International Standard dances.
4. International Standard (five) dances.
5. A dance studio specializing in ballroom dances.
6. The location of ballroom dance competitions.

Okay, I realize it's unfair to use the defined term in the definition, but we dancers do it all the time. I've heard all of the various definitions above at random points in time. Any that I missed?

[ViviDancer]

Well, in my country, our context of Ballroom Dances are the 10 international ballroom dances. 5 standard, 5 latin. Waltz, Tango, Slow Foxtrot, Viennese Waltz, Quickstep and Cha Cha, Rumba, Samba, Jive, Paso Doble. However, barely anybody teaches smooth or swing here, so that's what we have come to consider Ballroom Dances.

But I guess different people will have different perceptions of what is a "ballroom" dance. Just like how social dances are different everywhere. Here, socially, we do rhythm, argentine tango, salsa, disco rock (a simple version of rock & roll), rock & roll and bachata.

[tangotime]

Re-awakening an old thread...


1. All-inclusive term for any partner dancing typically taught in a ballroom studio




I just re read the posts and there are some interesting conclusions ( T/Arg.. street dance ) I suppose in its broadest sense ALL latin dances were originally " street ".. the term that connotes indigenous.

Back when in A/M. ,there were dances in the Syl.mainly at Gold level that did not survive the advancement of music style changes..like.. Guaracha, Balboa , Peabody... and heres 2 that got lost.. Sambuco and Calypso.( even Twist and Pachanga made it onto a list ) .The 3 that still remain in some form as a partnership dance outside the syl...Guaracha, Balboa and Peabody . And in Salsa, solo Pachanga moves are somewhat common .


All "misfits" if you will, in most peoples ideas of B/room dancing, they are all very indicative of an era.They, with 2 exceptions, would fit into the Rhythm/Latin category

As to the word " Ballroom ", it was initially used to make it a distinctive formalised method of learning. In real terms ? a place where " Balls " were held .

The " Split " seemed inevitable when new Latin rhythms became part of the Syl. in the 50s , when the term of Standard started to emerge in the 80/90s the remainder became Latin .

The Latin/Rhythm side of things ,has grown to huge proportions with the advent of new dances

[opendoor]

As to the word " Ballroom ", it was initially used to make it a distinctive formalised method of learning. In real terms ? a place where " Balls " were held..

Interesting aspect, you mean that what now is taught in dance studios or dance schools (interchangeable with BR) and follows a standardized syllabus once started dolled up right before the ball as a taster course in the dance hall?

Instead of that street and club variants of the same dances, that were taught where the fat really was on fire (or that were not taught at all, cause already kids had cut their teeth on it).

So it´s not a question of the dances, styles, and numbers, but a question of the didactics and above all a question of the venue.

So folk and country dances are those dances that you learn by doing on local feasts,
firemen´s balls, and family celebrations in the country.

Only Tango de Salón (which is not a ballroom style) may be a exception, although salón and ballroom seem to be the same for me. But, the Tango de Salón craze in the Golden Age may also been an upper class phenomenon, instead of the confiteria and quilombo tango in the said barrios.

[duffypratt]

A ballroom is a room where balls are held. What's a ball? It comes from the french word "bal," which in turn derives from Latin "ballare" which means "to dance." Thus, "ballroom dance" seems oddly redundant.

The traditional ballroom dances are not the smooth dances mentioned here. Rather, they are the Minuet, the Gavotte, the Courante, the Musette, etc... Waltz, which is probably the oldest of the dances we still practice, was at first considered scandalous and indecent, largely because of the closed position.

I guess what I'm getting at is that it's probably foolish to ask for some "official" definition of the term. In many ways, the term is already anachronistic and it carries a great deal of historical baggage. It seems pointless now to try to pigeonhole ballroom dances to modern Dancesport. A ballroom dance is anything that people would dance at a ball. Once upon a time, that was the Minuet and other courtly dances. Among poorer people, it might have been the Landler. In Argentina, it's Tango. And in junior high schools and at proms across the country its the sweetheart shuffle and the white man's overbite (well maybe that's stretching it too far).

[GGinrhinestones]

I guess what I'm getting at is that it's probably foolish to ask for some "official" definition of the term. In many ways, the term is already anachronistic and it carries a great deal of historical baggage. It seems pointless now to try to pigeonhole ballroom dances to modern Dancesport.

I think it is impossible in any case to come up with a single "official" definition, just a working definition based on context. I'm just curious how many common definitions we have in the ballroom world today. In an historical context, I don't think pretty much any of the commonly used definitions today would apply...but that is the beauty of English, it's a constantly evolving language. Hence, so many definitions for one seemingly simple word.

And welcome to DF!

And in junior high schools and at proms across the country its the sweetheart shuffle and the white man's overbite (well maybe that's stretching it too far).

This would definitely be a definition I haven't heard yet. ;)

[tangotime]

A ballroom is a room where balls are held. What's a ball? It comes from the french word "bal," which in turn derives from Latin "ballare" which means "to dance." Thus, "ballroom dance" seems oddly redundant.



Tautology.. just like River Avon ( river river ) there are numerous e.g. for rivers and mountains .

[tangotime]

The traditional ballroom dances are not the smooth dances mentioned here. Rather, they are the Minuet, the Gavotte, the Courante, the Musette, etc...


Pretty much all of that has been covered here on past posts.. point.. we (I) am using the modern day e.g. of partnership, however if you want to go into origins, then we better start with the Drum !

[rbazsz]

Re-awakening an old thread...

So, I have six definitions for the term "ballroom" (in somewhat increasing specificity). Any others out there?

1. All-inclusive term for any partner dancing typically taught in a ballroom studio
2. Any of the American style (nine-dance) or International style (ten-dance) competitive dances.
3. Any of the American Smooth or International Standard dances.
4. International Standard (five) dances.
5. A dance studio specializing in ballroom dances.
6. The location of ballroom dance competitions.

Okay, I realize it's unfair to use the defined term in the definition, but we dancers do it all the time. I've heard all of the various definitions above at random points in time. Any that I missed?

#1 is the only definition that works in the real world. All dances that require a lead and a follow are ballroom.

[opendoor]

A ballroom is a room where balls are held. ..ball? It comes from the french word "bal," ....they are the Minuet, the Gavotte, the Courante, ... Waltz...

You mean, BR has yet however got to do with these upper-class, aristocratic, large land-owners background?


Re-awakening an old thread...

1. All-inclusive term for any partner dancing typically taught in a ballroom studio
...

#1 is the only definition that works in the real world. All dances that require a lead and a follow are ballroom.

No, it doesn´t work, because TA, Salsa and Swing do not belong to BR in narrow sense, but do require lead and follow. It must have got to do something (as I wrote before) with the location (ballroom instead of club, brothel, neighbourhood), or with the social class for which some dances used to be typical.

[rbazsz]

You mean, BR has yet however got to do with these upper-class, aristocratic, large land-owners background?



No, it doesn´t work, because TA, Salsa and Swing do not belong to BR in narrow sense, but do require lead and follow. It must have got to do something (as I wrote before) with the location (ballroom instead of club, brothel, neighbourhood), or with the social class for which some dances used to be typical.

In my area we are far less dogmatic: TA, Salsa, and Swing are all done in social ballroom parties. Last night I was at a WCS dance and they even played a waltz. To me that's ballroom!

[opendoor]

Think so, too. Thats why I used the term narrow/wider sense of BR...

:applause:

[Ray Sison]

It's interesting how diverse the opinions are on this topic... :cool: