Dancers Bodies

[pygmalion]

Sagitta raised a really interesting question in another thread. The question of women's bodies, what's allowed to show, what's attractive, and how important physical attractiveness is to dancers. Anybody have thoughts?

I have many, but I'll throw out one to get the ball rolling. I wear a dress size six. When I go to department stores to buy clothes, that translates into a size small, sometimes extra small. When I go to buy dance clothes, that translates into a large, sometimes extra large. Why the seeming bias toward skinny, skinny women? And is it just women? Or do very thin male dancers have an advantage too? If so, why?

[SwinginBoo]

Well essentially being thinner helps your body move more quickly and theoretically more gracefully (hence ballet dancers). It's one thing that I have always been very uncomforatable with, but will say no more in a public forum. :(

So I don't know how much real truth there is in the idea that thinnest is the best. But our society seems to place a certain value on it. :?

[pygmalion]

I'm uncomfortable with it too, Boo. And being thinner may make it easier, but folks with a few extra pounds can still dance. One of the best Viennese waltz ladies I saw at my comp last week was VERY heavy. And Viennese waltz is one of those dances that rquires serious balance, lightness, and some good use of the physics. But you should have heard some of the comments people made. "I'm surprised she can move so well." was one of the least offensive things I heard. And there were other things said, for sure.

And I think about Paula Abdul, who developed bulimia because she had coaches who told her she didn't "have a dancer's body." What the heck IS a dancer's body?

[SwinginBoo]

It's someone who's on the verge of collapse because they are walking around in a skeleton covered with a semblance of skin.

[Sagitta]

A dancer's body [Man/Woman, lead/follow] is one that is in sync. with the music! So there :P

Hey. I mentioned attractiveness but I swear I wasn't talking about people being thin, or even thinking of that. It's interesting that you bring this topic up as my lindy teacher was just talking about this past wednesday, when referring to John Lindo, from NYC, who is down in Ithaca this weekend. That is if I remember correctly, since Wednesday is eons ago.

As you have said there are certain stereotypes out there!! [These are western stereotypes by the way!] However, I have seen "big" leaders who are wonderful dancers and never get a rest as they are in such high demand. I've also danced with "bigger" women who are dream follows and put me to shame :oops: They probably were taking pity on me!

If you know how to dance and are having fun I love dancing with you.

As a dancing newbie I do find it easier to dance with people or are closer to me heightwise/body type. Unfortunately, due to my own inadequacies I find it very hard to dance with newbie followers who are "big" in either respect/aspect.

[Spitfire]

I should mention one of the ladies that I know here who must be in excess of 250lbs and yet she is very light on her feet when she dances. :wink:

[msc]

Being tall and trim really helps body lines, no question. C'est la vie.

[bouncybouncyweee]

Being tall and trim really helps body lines, no question. C'est la vie.

I dunno. I think you have a point. I wouldn't be so surprised if the "bigger" dancers had to work it a little more to achieve it. But also, there's the idea that if a person ISN'T a stick, they may very well become one because of all the exercise.

Leading from the anti-skirt campain that I was on in the P A N T H O S E thread, it does have something to do with my thighs. I'm a race mutt (Hispanic and "white") and I've decided that it came into play in my body type in the sense I'm white from the waist up (skinny arms and tiny wrists and small waisted) and Hispanic from the waist down (larger thighs, a butt, and larger hips). (hope there aren't any geneticists in here...) and my avoidance of skirts has a tiny amount to do with the fact I have thick Hispanic thighs.

But there is something to be said about the uber-skinny girls. They look like twitching sticks in my opinon... there's a problem there too.

[Swing Kitten]

I don't think that I know any guys who actually perfer bony women. There is something to be said for vulumptuousness.

As I gather, A LOT to be said about it! ;)

[pygmalion]

:lol: True. I've never met a guy who didn't appreciate my lumps and bumps! :lol: But msc has a point. Those clean straight lines that dancers (especially ballroom dancers) are trying to creat ARE much easier to hit if the lumps and bumps are of manageable size. Isn't there a happy medium somewhere, I wonder. Hmm. :?

[Swing Kitten]

I say if you're healthy and happy what else can you possibly ask for?

[bouncybouncyweee]

a kitten.

[Swing Kitten]

too true!

[borikensalsero]

Are we talking about social dancing or performing? If you are a performer and are over weight it takes away from what you are trying to achieve. It is so because we are visual beings, it calls our attention and think to ourselves he/she shouldn't look that way and wearing the clothes they wear. It is a sweeter eye candy to look at Josie Neglia in a tight dress doing cuban motion during a performance than an Anna Nicole Smith look alike doing the same. That is where our sexual nature takes over our judgment.

Now, social dancing is a different topic all together. A greater number of the best followers, most flava dancers I've danced with have been the Mambo mamas in NY City( a group of larger salsa dancers). They seem to translate their passion into their dancing. They are light on their feet and have flavor that many skinnier ladies do not even come close to. They shake and wiggle like snakes, while their skinnier counter parts sit and wonder how in the world do they dance as they do... My answer to them is usually heart. I've even seen people laugh at them because of their size, yet their are a 100 times more pleseant to dance with.

The skinny girl is worrying about what she looks. OMG, is this move right? do I look good doing it? she looks better than I do! blah blah blah. I've heard it all.

Over weight girls seem to only care about dancing and getting their groove on despite what anyone thinks. That turns to great followers and lovers of the music. I love dancing with the not as skinny girls because they display passion in their dancing instead of 5 years of classes. However I agree that it is easier to lead a skinny girl through some moves and their body makes them look "Hotter" dancing.

[bouncybouncyweee]

something else to point out.

Remember I am saying this IN GENERAL! I am not a genetisist, or an anthropologist! this is just observation!!

Salsa is often considered a "hispanic" origins dance. (Along with merengue, cumbia, etc.) And hispanic women tend to be thick, meaty women. (I know i am. Well, at least from the waist down) So when they shake that thang (tee hee), that's whats "in their blood," and it looks more natural to us than the skinnier women. (Not that there aren't skinnier Hispanics. But, I haven't seen to many as of yet. Yay refried beans diet!!) So, social dancing these "hispanic" dances is more in place for people, and the body type of that culture.

Before my mother converted to pentecostal and stopped dancing, she was the one who taught me how to shake my hips. And she is well over 200 pounds, but she still could move!

[pygmalion]

Good point, bouncybouncyweee.

There is a big cultural difference when it comes to preferred body type. Without making any unnecessary generalizations (which are, in my mind almost always false!) I've noticed that African-American men are big fans of bigger derrieres. Listen to rap songs or watch the videos, if you have any doubt. Those dancers are seriously shaking their tailfeathers. Big tailfeathers.

So maybe boriken is right -- it depends on your goal in dancing. If you're a competitor or performer, or a ballerina or a ballroomer, thin may be in. But in the club doing salsa or hip hop, well, who knows. What do you think?

[borikensalsero]

Good point, bouncybouncyweee.

There is a big cultural different when it comes to preferred body type. Without making any unnecessary generalizations (which are, in my mind almost always false!) I've noticed that African-American men are big fans of bigger derrieres. Listen to rap songs or watch the videos, if you have any doubt. Those dancers are seriously shaking their tailfeathers. Big tailfeathers.

So maybe boriken is right -- it depends on your goal in dancing. If you're a competitor or performer, or a ballerina or a ballroomer, thin may be in. But in the club doing salsa or hip hop, well, who knows. What do you think?

I'm rican and I hear a lot of people refer to latinos liking thick women. However, I must mention that thick doesn't mean over weight. A lot of people mis-use the word, they fool themselves into thinking that they are thick and not over wieght. A thick girl is one with shapely muscular body and with somewhat minimun body fat. Not the over chuncky girl people think latinos like. We don't. We like the meaty girls, but we can't confuse meaty with over weight. I myself like skinnier women and I know more than my share of skinny latinas who can shake it like no one's business. That is because I live in a place where latinos are all shapes, sizes and colors and have see it as the norm as opposed to what mainstream america sees.

BTW... Those ladies shaking their bootty at high speeds on TV are called rump shakers. =)

Yeap, pygmalion, in the social dancing body type or weight is relatively un important, at least to me.

[msc]

I agree that in terms of social dancing, appearance doesn't really matter. Well, except for the fact that all eyes will be on the toned dancers who know how to move, so maybe from an attention-grabbing perspective it matters, but not from a lead/follow point of view.

[Sagitta]

I agree with Boriken. I have danced with and seen latinas of all shapes and sizes.

Virgilio

[bouncybouncyweee]

I haven't really seen all overweight hispanics. I live usually in Los Angeles, and although I am often called skinny, I'm far from being a stick! I mean nice thick thighs and hips when I say "thick." You're right, salsero, over weight isn't the same thing. I just see way fewer sticks is all, but many toned lovely women with curves. Yay curves!

[borikensalsero]

The voluptuous latin curves... It will make the gayest of man double look... hehe

[Vince A]

I do not care what you look like . . . tall or short, fat or skinny, male or female . . . I'll dance with you if you want to dance . . . what the hell does looks have to do with dancing???

I've seen as many fat ladies compete and win as the thin ones, albeit the there are more thinner ones who compete. I believe this is because most heavier women are self-sconscious of their weight and tend to stay out of the limelight, so to say (my opinion only)!

I've also seen downright ugly (in my eyes) males win.

I've even danced with gay males.

Dancing is what I'm there for and dancing is what we'll do - Ladies, your dancing abilites, the smile, and twinkle in your eyes is what matters most to me!

[bouncybouncyweee]

Speaking of gay males...

(Nothing to do with bodies by the way)

But last year when the UCSD dancesport team competed at Standford, four people on the team, two girls and two guys, betted each other that the girl couple could beat the guy couple in Bronze Cha-Cha. So, the two same sex couples went onto the floor... the girls didn't get called back, but the boys did. Again. And again. And the ended up taking second place. Our coach went up to them later to explain why they only two second instead of first. He said if the judges had given them first place, there were many girls who probably would have gone out back and shot themselves. hee hee. And no, they actually weren't gay in the least!! hee hee! :lol:

[pygmalion]

Wow! Check out these photos of the Mambo Mamas in action! Now that's what I call dancers with bodies! :D

http://www.planetsalsa.com/quepasa/mad_about_mambo.htm

[Vince A]

It's someone who's on the verge of collapse because they are walking around in a skeleton covered with a semblance of skin.
I think my wife, Carolyn, would disagree with you.

She is a size 1, sometimes a 2 at the most. She is not bony looking!

She works 24 x7 at her job (really), is quite a capable mother, wife, and homemaker. She walks over 2 miles everyday, and practices Prop-Am 2 to 5 times a week, and then we go dancing on weekends, and we attend every dance event that we can. Oh . . . she is in her 40s.

She may be thin, but she can out dance and out work "any person" that I know. She is just the epitome of someone that IS motivated.

Yes, there are exceptions to every situation I know. I just wish I could keep up with her. I can only hope to be thin again . . .

[SwinginBoo]

Sorry Vince, I didn't mean to offend. I actually was mostly joking on that comment. :oops:

[danceguy]

Hi,

Great thread everyone...its got me thinking about several dancers I was watching a few weeks ago. At one of the dance spots I frequent, there are these two male leads that are really fun to watch. I've seen them dance with ladies who don't know the particular style but can follow really well, and these guys make them look awesome! Both men are tall, thin and watching them is akin to seeing a conductor at a symphony...very precise movements and timing, very serious faces.

But last time I was at this particular venue, a new gentleman came to our dance, one that I'm almost certain was not a regular. Although he was quite large (at least 300 pounds), it became very evident when he stepped on the floor, that not only could he dance...but there was something about him that made the rest of the men around look pale in comparison.

As I watched this same guy dance...and I don't exactly know the word to use...he was just "smooth"...but more than that. His body was in total sync to the music..and a deaf person could have known the style he was doing due to his movements (unlike some people I've watched who tend to look the same during different dances).

And the aura this man exuded...he had a smile that seemed to cover his body from head to toe...he loved to dance and it showed! The women were lining up to dance with him...and I saw his skill in dancing as something to aspire to myself. Perhaps he wasn't as quick as some of the thinner guys...but he had soul and rhythm, and watching him and his partners wasn't like watching a conductor lead a band...rather it was two people dancing as one. 8)

Best,

SG

[SDsalsaguy]

Great description and account SG...

Last Friday night there was an older Cuban style couple at my local salsa spot… nothing flashy or what anyone would consider “advanced” by any stretch of the imagination… but man, more flavor then any of the more “accomplished” dancers by a mile!

[suek]

interesting thread.

i've been dancing for almost four years, and as the addiction took hold, have been dancing more and more (been five or more nights a week for about a year now). and although i was eating really healthy for the most part, i wasn't losing any weight.

am 53 years old, menopausal and even though dancing was making me fitter and fitter it wasn't until i started dropping weight (through major eating changes) that i began to feel "light on my feet."

i've lost a bunch of weight since september first and have dropped one or two sizes. my hips, knees and feet are happier (less aches), i'm dancing better (i think) and i'm much happier about the way my body looks...a sleeker look better matching the internal excitement i have about the dance.

i will confess to a bias here...i know i like myself better thinner (concomitantly struggle with self-hatred when heavier). only hope that i can like myself just as well if some of those pounds sneak back onto my frame.

it's pervasive and insidious, this cultural "thin is good, heavy means you got something to fix."

hooray for all of us for getting off our butts and taking whatever risks we each had to take to be present for all this fun and joy.

[Sarah]

interesting thread.

i've been dancing for almost four years, and as the addiction took hold, have been dancing more and more (been five or more nights a week for about a year now). and although i was eating really healthy for the most part, i wasn't losing any weight.


Oddly enough the opposite occurs to me - it doesn't seem to matter what or how much I eat, the only thing that seems to change my body is the amount and sort of excercise I do. I dropped a couple of dress sizes by crashing my car and having to bike everywhere for 3 weeks.

Cheers
Sarah


Cheers
Sarah

[Sagitta]

Wow!! Sarah!!! Wish I was like you. Then I could pig out on all those delicious fattening foods without a worry in the world :)

Actually I don't really care that much. I had this ice cream craving two weeks ago and was going through more then one box of ice cream a day, for over a week.. Not those small containers, but the family sized ones!!! :D I haven't even checked my weight!

Then when I go home and visit relatives and parents in Goa....I really go crazy!! One month of indulgence...desert is my main food, and lolling about.

Speaking of dancer bodies and moving....what really catches my attention on the dance floor is when the bodies actually are part of the music, the movement of the bodies in dancing becomes part of the music performance. I have noticed that it is only when the two clash that the critiquing starts...

[Vince A]

Sorry Vince, I didn't mean to offend. I actually was mostly joking on that comment. :oops:
I'm sorry too, Boo.

I must have sounded defensive . . . I didn't take it from you as offensive. I understood where you were coming from.

[salsachinita]

But last time I was at this particular venue, a new gentleman came to our dance, one that I'm almost certain was not a regular. Although he was quite large (at least 300 pounds), it became very evident when he stepped on the floor, that not only could he dance...but there was something about him that made the rest of the men around look pale in comparison.

As I watched this same guy dance...and I don't exactly know the word to use...he was just "smooth"...but more than that. His body was in total sync to the music..and a deaf person could have known the style he was doing due to his movements (unlike some people I've watched who tend to look the same during different dances).

And the aura this man exuded...he had a smile that seemed to cover his body from head to toe...he loved to dance and it showed! The women were lining up to dance with him...and I saw his skill in dancing as something to aspire to myself. Perhaps he wasn't as quick as some of the thinner guys...but he had soul and rhythm, and watching him and his partners wasn't like watching a conductor lead a band...rather it was two people dancing as one. 8)

I know (almost) the exact guy you are talking about here :!:

My salsa mentor/ex was the EXACT picture here! :shock: He has the ability to make women GLOW in his arms......even the most ordinary person look like a goddess when they dance with him...... thus he became somewhat legendary.

Needless to say he was highly sought after on the dance floor :roll:

Back to the point, a less than ideal body shape DOES NOT stop you from having more 'sabor' (flavor!) when it comes to salsa!

[salsachinita]

I would like to explore how self-image relates to our dancing.

Now that you are hooked on dancing, do you find that your self-image has improved? Or have you become more critical of how you look (as some models/ballerinas would)?

Being born & spent the first 14 years in an Asian country, where the petite beauty is the norm, your weight/appearance is open to public discussion/criticisms (=everyone has the right to tell you that you are fat, lose wieght or no-one would like you).

Now, I have to clarify that even though I was a somewhat too-tall, too-large child (due to my mixed genes) compared to the norm locally, I have never been obese per se. I am an Australian standard size 12 (US size 8 or 10?) and 165cm in height. The trouble was that I reached this size as young as 12yrs of age.

I grew up believing I was unattractive (therefore unloved :cry: )

This changed when I discovered salsa. Aged 19. I realised that almost none of the great dancers fit the ballerina/model image. They are well-toned but by no means petite. (even the petite ones are curvy!)

This was when I tossed the mainstream idea of body image out of the window! (that, plus the many cases of the bulimic models I came across as a fashion designer)

Does anyone have similar experience to share?

[Swing Kitten]

I was a chubby kid growing up-- 'til I was about 15. Siblings weren't always king when I was young-- it's amazing how things like that stick with you!

Nowadays I could use some fine tuning I'm sure but I'm happy.

[Sagitta]

Kids can be vicious without realizing it, especially if a person is senstive. I was chubby too when small, not able to run fast etc. I soon outgrew it with the only remnant of those days big thighs...talking of being chubby / tall when small brought the memories back....

Speaking of self-image the only thing that bothers me is my hands. I've really small hands. Smallest in my family -- small kid sized hands -- difficulties in doing quite a few things. Irritating!!!! :evil:

Dance really has not affected my self-image. Well, I'm more aware of my body, so posture has improved etc, but I have not "become more critical of how you look (as some models/ballerinas would" as I think salsachinita is talking about... I simply have increased the variety of strength and endurance building exercises I do in order to allow me to do more and more dancing.

[redhead]

I never understood why so many latinos like me 'til I started salsa. Booty! :P
Hey, it's normal if female body has some extra weight;whatever I do, I can't lose those 3 pounds, but never go over another 3. Chocolate makes you happy, right? Nobody doesn't like happy people, right? :wink:
Have you noticed that skinnier guys may be faster, but their lead is... eh...a little chunky, no matter how good they are. Bigger guys are smooth. Is it because fat in your muscles let you stretch better?
Females have greater percentage of body fat; is that why we are considered more flexible?
Height may be a bigger problem for me than weight.

[Sarah]

Wow!! Sarah!!! Wish I was like you. Then I could pig out on all those delicious fattening foods without a worry in the world :)


Oh, it doesn't quite work like that - greasy fatty stuff just tends to come straight out through my skin. Yuck. My body is pretty good at telling me what it wants though, and I'm pretty good at listening.

Cheers
Sarah

[Sarah]

I would like to explore how self-image relates to our dancing.

Now that you are hooked on dancing, do you find that your self-image has improved? Or have you become more critical of how you look (as some models/ballerinas would)?


Improved, definitely. I will now wear really short skirts in public! I think I've come to see my body, imperfect as it may be[1], as a really good tool (or maybe toy) to do fun stuff with. I've also enjoyed seeing it change in the various ways it has, without me really trying. My calf muscles are really cut now :).

Cheers
Sarah

[1] I am far from the `ideal media image'. Aren't we all?

[borikensalsero]

Comming from a guy my otter self image (facade) has gone down. I used to be called GQ, until I started dancing and got into alchemy. I stopped really caring about how my outside looked to people and started worrying when my next dance was going to be, and how happy I felt inside.

Now, I wear what I want when I want, and I'm only concerned with self happiness and those around me. :D :D It costs less too, so I have more money for my CD collection and dance shoes... :D :D :D

[salsachinita]

Now, I wear what I want when I want, and I'm only concerned with self happiness and those around me. :D :D It costs less too, so I have more money for my CD collection and dance shoes... :D :D :D

More evidence here for the Gift of Dance :D .

This means your self-image (how you see yourself) has improved. As you no longer cared about superficial qualities & focused on how you FEEL about yourself instead......!

Good on you, Borikensalsero!

[pygmalion]

New/related topic, I guess. Pregnant dancers' bodies. Gotta ponder that, because virtually all the dance clothes out there are totally non-pregnant friendly. In fact, non-normal body size friendly. If you're bigger than a size four, you're out of luck.

Hmm. Think I'll take a look over on another ballroom bulletin board. I seem to remember several of the women over there mentioning their large dress sizes and rolls of fat, when talking about fashion. I wonder what they have to say about this topic, if anything ...

[DancingMommy]

Found this one too! And I'll just jump right in... Teeheehee

I'me 5'2" and have bstayed around 130-150 lbs for most of my adult life (except when I was seriously anorexic in college). I know I did drop a bunch of weight when I started dancing - dancig 40 hours a week will do that to you.

I know I'm less in pain from overworked joints when I'm close to 120, but after 2 pregnancies, I doubt I'll ever see a size six again... Not that I've seen one in a while............

As for dancewear, I'm just plain hopping MAD MAD MAD :evil: :evil: :evil: that there aren't more choices for the person who is under-tall and over-sized. I mean how many 7' tall 95 lb women are actually out there??????

I finally have one standard dress I'm in love with and paid a mint for (by my standard) used, but can't yet fit into becuasde of pregnancy. You can BET I'll be getting into that dress by next fall, though!

And along the smae lines, why does dancewear have to be so flipping expensive???? I know how to sew, but for the life of me I can't find a place to get patterns to make the durn things. I have a portfolio of designs, but no way of "making a pattern" for them since the pattern-making software companies are also charging an arm and a leg for a pretty straightforward item that wouldn't take TOO long to code (DH is a programmer). I may start another thread on this.....

[pygmalion]

Yes, yes and yes.

I wear a size six and you'd think I'm a pig, it's so difficult to find flattering dancwear that fits. One company, which I shouldn't mention, actually would charge me extra as an oversize person, based on my measurements, which I think is totally ridiculous.

I sew too, but I haven't found a way to keep the costs down. I've only found one company that does custom standard/smooth patterns, and they are quite pricey -- $100 or more. For a pattern? Ridiculous. There are a couple "discount" ballroom dress makers out there -- meaning about $500 for a costume, but that's not cheap, and you can really see the difference, particularly in the quality of the stoning. Check web sites forum -- there are a couple listed. Those dresses are adequate for amateur comps, though, and look very nice from a distance.

Also, someone posted a Vogue pattern number on another board that might be suitable for smooth dancing -- Vogue 7824. A simple dress with spaghetti straps and godets in the skirt. You might be able to adapt it to fit your current figure. Wait until Joann Fabrics has a pattern sale, though. Vogue patterns are quite expensive, but Joann often has them for as much as 75% off.

Hmm. I checked. As it turns out, the current Joann sale doesn't include Vogue patterns -- only Simplicity. But it's worth the wait. The Vogue website, mccallspatterns.com, has Vogue patterns 50% off, with free shipping on orders of five or more patterns.

[Sagitta]

Wow! Check out these photos of the Mambo Mamas in action! Now that's what I call dancers with bodies! :D

http://www.planetsalsa.com/quepasa/mad_about_mambo.htm

Maybe someone can check these ladies out and ask them, about other size dance wear?

[pygmalion]

The thing I'm beginning to appreciate more and more as I get into competitive dance is that fat or thin is not the issue. Fit versus unfit is the issue. To be a competitive dancer, you have to be aerbocially fit at a minimum. And having good muscular development and control is a big plus.

[KevinL]

Sagitta raised a really interesting question in another thread. The question of women's bodies, what's allowed to show, what's attractive, and how important physical attractiveness is to dancers. Anybody have thoughts?

Everybody has thoughts, but oftentimes guys won't actually share their thoughts on this topic...

What's allowed to show? That very much depends on the venue, and the type of dance, I think. Brazilian Samba is done in beaded and feathered bikinis, while often ballroom competitions have women fully clothed. At Lindy in the Park, or in really humid areas, as little clothing as possible is acceptable.

What's attractive? That is much too personal a question for anyone to answer for anyone but themselves. Personally, I like swimmers bodies, what someone else described as "thick" - muscular and fit. However, I also like thin women and women with curvy bodies as well. (OK, so I mostly find all women attractive, so sue me, 8^) I find really overweight people (men and women) less attractive because I know that their weight limits what they can do, and threatens their health.

How important is physical attractiveness in a dance partner? Unless you are talking extreme body odor, "attractiveness" doesn't come into play. The only criteria I have in a dance partner is if they look like they want to dance? Sometimes locally there are extra guys at dances, so I'll ask the guys to dance. One of my favorite dance partners in California was obese, probably around 300 pounds. I liked dancing with her because she enjoyed it so much, even though her body, and lack of fitness, really limited what we could do together.

I have many, but I'll throw out one to get the ball rolling. I wear a dress size six. When I go to department stores to buy clothes, that translates into a size small, sometimes extra small. When I go to buy dance clothes, that translates into a large, sometimes extra large. Why the seeming bias toward skinny, skinny women? And is it just women? Or do very thin male dancers have an advantage too? If so, why?

Dancers tend to exercise a lot, and therefor are thinner? I don't know. Dancing a lot certainly hasn't helped me! According to a recent Body Mass Index chart I need to lose 45 lbs...

[Sagitta]

Yes I tend to agree with you Pygmailion that fitness plays a big role. When I dance with those who aren't quite there I feel them beginning to lose it during the dance, and that's not much fun!!

I've dance with some people whom my "ignorant" acquaintances would never ask for a dance, because they look old and may not be that physically attractive!!! BUT, right from the start the lead-follow connection is perfect, I can completely feel what my partner is doing and it's like being in paradise!! :)

[pygmalion]

Jus for kicks, I googled "ballroom dance fat," and guess what I got? A listing of curriculum requirements from the BYU ballroom dance programs, which sets maximum and minimum body fat percentages for men and women. Hmm. What do you think of that?

http://ar.byu.edu/dept_academ_advise/gemajor/98/mr/663930mr.html

[Vince A]

Of all the dancers that I have competed against from BYU (individual Pro-Am and dancers from "Fire and Ice," let me tell you that each one of them was at the peak of conditioning . . . no one was (is) too thin or overweight!

If you have never seen their dance teams perform, then you are really missing some well-choregraphed routine dance and dance-skits!

I can understand why they have such demanding standards . . . it prevents anyone from just applying because they want to dance . . . you also need to look the part and have the body well-conditioned enough before you began . . . each student knows this from the get-go!

It's like having a "disclaimer statement at the very beginning" (hint) of the class decription. Yes? No? Kinda-sorta maybe?

[SDsalsaguy]

They also have height and waist/hip measuremnts for their respective teams (I'm not sure if this is for all teams or only there trop two though...)

One thing this *does* achieve, is a very clean look to their formations...

[Pacion]

My Dancesport teacher (from a thousand moons ago) said that some bodies suited ballroom better than latin and vice versa. It was all to do with the centres/power.

A good latin dancer has their centre (of gravity I guess?) closer to the floor so that you get that sexy, sexy hip action, which basically translates into shorter legs :?

A good ballroom dancer has a longer back and their centre is higher up so that they can hold that frame (?) in their upper body and their legs just glide around the floor :(

As much as I loved the ballroom dances, he felt that my bodyshape was better suited to latin - nothing to do with my personality/temperament

(okay, so I loved latin more and eventually conceded that latin was more me, but I still enjoyed the ballroom :D )

[dancin_feet]

I have always been relatively skinny, people think on first sight that I could be anorexic, until they see me eat! I recently have had a couple of comments from people saying that I have gotten even skinner. Panicing I checked my weight and it hadn't changed, so I think that it is just moving around because of my constant activity. It is a bit disconcerting though. Thought I couldn't get any skinnier!

One of the best Street Latin dancers at our studio, who is also a good friend of mine carries a bit of weight, but you wouldn't notice when she dances. During an exam late last year, the examiner told her she couldn't fault her samba at all!

[mhgroove]

First of all, I just read all four pages to this topic. I wanted to read everyone's opinion because this topic about body size has always been a fascinating one to me. I do agree with most of the posts about performance dancing that being thinner is better for competition because the judges can focused on the dance, technique,etc...

However, with social dancing that's a different story all together. To me social dancing has always been sensuality, movement , and communicating with your partner in a way that words could never express. Since I've been dancing salsa, I've noticed that women who are curvy, voluptuous, shapely(or whatever adjective you want to use) tend to express those qualities I just mentioned. I know some women are going to read those last few sentences and say that's typical for a man to write. However, it's not just a lustful, sexual thing I'm writing about.

Men and women's bodies are different and dancing to me is one of the best ways to reveal that difference. I have seen older couples..where the woman is quite round and the man is skinny as a pole but when they dance together and they now how to dance..I can help but smile in delight because I can see the interplay to those bodies moving together. I can't describe it...maybe it's subconscious. But it looks right and it feels right.

Unfortunately, a thinner woman or woman who is shaped like a man doesn't bring that same quality when they're dancing with their partner.

I know there is a whole cultural aspect to body shapes and sizes. The sad part to me is we have all different body shapes and sizes for a reason. Our body types are inherent to who we are and yes you can lose or gain weight for a certain period. However, our body shapes are natural and we should be more concern about being healthy and accepting your body for what is.

Also, I disagree with the notion that beauty comes just from the inside. Beauty comes the from inside and outside. Both qualities are important into making you a whole person..not just one-dimensional.

Thank you for this topic..I believe this is a very important issue!

[Sabor]

fabulous thread!

i'm a social dancer, 6'3 ft.. 205 lbs. with hardly an fat.. in that context i dont care much how relatively good/or bad that is .. or how biologically fit for a certain dance over another etc.. but i do care for how i feel in motion alone + w/ a partner.. very very much so.. and if that feels right then, hey, i love it no matter what shape/size i am .. or what shape/size u are.. just so long its smooth, light and smelling goooood.. just give me my chemistry, a little 'salsa love' and i'll be your dancing slave :D

[salsachinita]

My Dancesport teacher (from a thousand moons ago) said that some bodies suited ballroom better than latin and vice versa. It was all to do with the centres/power.

I had this very same conversation very recently as well. This angle has never occuredto me before...but it makes a lot of sense.

Being (relatively) tall & leggy my centre of gravity would have been higher than some of the other girls who seemed to just 'get' salsa so much more easily (I'm refering to newbie stage), whereas I've always had to work so much harder/longer to get the same results.

Another interesting point that has been brought to my attention: being accustom to dancing with Latinos (who tend to be my height or shorter)most of my dancing life, I've subconciously adopted a somewhat "shorter" stance :!: so I feel shorter than my real height when I dance with someone tall.........

Then I got told that my body shape would have been naturally more suited to ballroom :shock: ........!

(just thought I'd share that here in this thread....)

[bordertangoman]

Have you noticed that skinnier guys may be faster, but their lead is... eh...a little chunky, no matter how good they are. Bigger guys are smooth. Is it because fat in your muscles let you stretch better?
Females have greater percentage of body fat; is that why we are considered more flexible?
Height may be a bigger problem for me than weight.

I beg to disagree with this as a thin man. I am often complimented on my smooth lead, the last time by a ballet dancer.
Of course Newton's law of Motion apply so a larger person will require more energy to slow down and speed up and they will develop greater inertia. Fat and muscle stretchiness are not connected
F=M*A

[Blondie]

Well, it certainly seems that all sorts of opinions are expressed here, and rightly so. Not everyone has the same attitudes toward bodies and weight and I'm glad to see it's not all biased in one direction.

As for a competitive dancer, there is certainly something to be said for a lighter and fit body. It helps to move better for sure. I've been on both sides of the weight issue. When I first got into ballroom dancing, I was about 80 pounds heavier than I am now. Loving dancing so much, I was quite inspired to lose the extra weight. I work out regularly in a gym, have lost all extra weight, have developed muscle tone and needed strength, and oh yes, work on cardiovascular exercise too so that I have great endurance for dancing. I remember when I was heavier the extra stress on my feet and ankles and also the extra effort it took to move quickly. It's definitely nicer to be lighter on my feet and not to be self conscious when I dance in front of others.

Someone mentioned here that shorter bodies are better suited to Latin and taller better for smooth. Yes, I have observed this. Shorter limbed people do move quite well in Latin/rhythm. I love the quick moves in rhythm and Latin, and even though not a tall person, I keep plugging away at smooth. I've seen very short people (pros) dance it extremely well. Just pay attention to technique!

:banana:

[blue]

I know this thread has been dead for more than half a year, not sure if it is along DF standards to revive old threads?

I wear a dress size six. When I go to department stores to buy clothes, that translates into a size small, sometimes extra small. When I go to buy dance clothes, that translates into a large, sometimes extra large. Why the seeming bias toward skinny, skinny women? And is it just women? Or do very thin male dancers have an advantage too? If so, why?

Well, it was a few years ago that some American clothes companies admitted they had gradually changed the sizes of their clothes, simply because people get happy and buy more if they fit into a smaller size. Maybe your dance clothes manufacturers did not follow on this?

What social dancing is concerned, I suppose overweight people often (but not always) feel uncomfortable about their bodies and because of this are less likely to get involved in physical activities where they feel others will judge both their performance and their appearence.

And regarding elite dancing - anorexia is actually quite common in young female athletes in ceratain sports. Gymnastics, diving and long distance running comes to my mind. One part is physical advantage of a light body, that might be true for all these sports - and possibly also in dancing. Another factor is sports where the body is very visible and the performace of the body is being judged in itself, rather than measured by the marks after your feet in a box of sand or a ball placed in a basket. The last thing is true for dancing also; both in competition and in social dancing (yeah, we are judging the dancers we are watching all the time. Right?) It would be a fair guess that dancing makes people more aware of their bodies and appearance. It could be both good and bad I guess, and almost anything taken to it's extreme is harmful...

[MacMoto]

I know this thread has been dead for more than half a year, not sure if it is along DF standards to revive old threads?
No problem reviving old threads -- it's always welcome (by me anyway :wink: -- I like it when an old thread I missed the first time round gets another airing).

[Purr]

Sometimes it feels like I don't fit into dancing, especially dancing at a competition, because I don't have what you would call the ideal body type. I'm 5' 7 1/2" tall, I weigh 150 pounds, and I wear a size 10. To most people, that's just about average. However, on the dance floor, compared to a lot of the other girls, I look like huge.

[blue]

Do men prefer dance partners smaller than themselves? I suppose most guys would not prefer a taller woman, but would they prefer shorter than the same height? I always think it looks better when two people of approx. the same size dance, but hey I'm a newbie so what do I know.

[etchuck]

Competitive dancing is a completely different issue, but in social dancing, well... I'd dance with anyone of any size as long as they know how to move their bodies and follow my leads. And have a great time.

[love2swing]

Sometimes it feels like I don't fit into dancing, especially dancing at a competition, because I don't have what you would call the ideal body type. I'm 5' 7 1/2" tall, I weigh 150 pounds, and I wear a size 10. To most people, that's just about average. However, on the dance floor, compared to a lot of the other girls, I look like huge.


I'm 5'9". I tower over most of the other girls there.

[Sagitta]

Socially, there are challenges dancing with people of different sizes as well as different pleasures. My main criteria is not size really, but connection. There are a few people whom I trully connect with and really enjoy dancing with whom I'll dance anything anytime. If they ask me, even if I wasn't feeling well I perk up and enjoy the dance.

[mhgroove]

Sometimes it feels like I don't fit into dancing, especially dancing at a competition, because I don't have what you would call the ideal body type. I'm 5' 7 1/2" tall, I weigh 150 pounds, and I wear a size 10. To most people, that's just about average. However, on the dance floor, compared to a lot of the other girls, I look like huge.

I do exercise, besides dancing, and I'm in the best physical shape I've ever been in. But, because of my bone structure, I'll never been that much smaller. I think I might have a self-image problem I need to work on.

Purr,

I would love dancing with you..especially if we connected on the dancefloor. Some of my best dances have been with taller women. I must admit I enjoy being able to look at my dance partner at eye level. There is something about that which delights me. I'm 5"10 with long, thin arms..so dancing with short women can be a problem some times. Obviously, I have adjusted...but I love dancing with taller, built women.

Also, I hope you're not ashamed of your size...you shouldn't be. Beauty comes in all shapes & sizes.