Feeling the floor?

[pygmalion]

Especially when I first started learning Latin motion, and also when I first started some serious work on spins and turns, I always got the same feedback -- connect to the floor. Feel the floor. Press into the floor. Of course, I had no clue what that meant, althuogh I'm beginning to get the idea now. :oops: :)

Does anybody out there have tips or pointers, especially for newer dancers, on how to form that connection to the floor? How do you dance "into the floor," not just on the floor?

http://www.eijkhout.net/lead_follow/connection.html

[Sagitta]

I know you asked for experienced DF help, but I thought I'd throw out what I know right now to see if it helps, and also to see if I am on the right track...

As a newbie I find that Latin motion really helps, particularly having one's weight on the inner part of the foot. Stepping with the whole foot feels like stepping ON, while the emphasis on one side of the foot seems to result in FEELING /GRIPPING the floor. To describe just two steps as I feel it...Left foot forward with knee flexed and most of body weight on inner front part of foot naturally results in right foot being straighter and a little body weight on front outer part of the foot. Left foot is feeling the floor. Body weight transfer to inner right front foot, results in left foot straightening out and partial weight on outer front foot. Right foot is know feeling the floor. The first step results in the left knee angled to the right, while the second step results in right knee being angled to the left.


SDsalsa's comments on the "Help for the Hips" thread in the salsa forum has helped me out, I think...(I think as I am not sure whether I'm following it as it should be :oops: ) http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1106&highlight=hip+motion

[Spitfire]

This is the same advice I was given when learning latin motion and to keep the feet close together.

Works for me. :D

[Sagitta]

Yess!!!! Wide stance means weight between feet, so feet are ON the floor.

Also, the image of knee flwexing as a foot arrives on the floor to "load the spring" and the subsequent push off rather then thinking of "placing the foot" images....

[SDsalsaguy]

Sagitta…glad to hear some of my comments have been of assistance! Just for clarities sake I wanted to point out that your “load the spring” analogy is fine for American style, but doesn’t work in International cha cha or rumba where the whole point is to arrive on a straight leg.

As far as the larger floor use issue is concerned, push into the floor! What I mean is, if you are stepping forward, do not do so just my stepping forward but, rather, by pushing backward with your off leg. Same thing for side steps, etc., – if you want to go left do so by pushing to the right with your right leg until you force yourself to step left. Also, don't prematurely disengage that foot & leg – keep pushing through them until you settle the opposing hip and draw that leg “in” to take a step on it. Sorry if this isn’t clear… I know what I want to say, just not sure if it came out that way… :?

[pygmalion]

Yup. Makes sense to me. And that was the feedback I got on my ISTD exams, as well. Increase use of the supporting foot and leg. Hmm. Practice time! :lol:

[Sagitta]

Definitely. I get what you are saying SDsalsa. Just get a little confused now and then. :oops:

Got to get going as a couple friends are having a dance party. Let's see if I can put all this advice to good use.

[msc]

I agree with Jonathan 100%. Push into the floor with the supporting foot, the receiving foot, any time your foot so much as touches the floor, push. Maybe the only exception is if a woman needs to stride forward onto a heel in high heels. Even in Int'l Latin, you can still use your leg and foot muscles to "dig" into the floor.
In fact, often you need to push before your foot makes contact (resulting in a "flexed" or "pointed" foot, depending on the nature of the stride,) so that as your foot makes contact, you already have power into the floor. Then you have to learn to use that power to increase the volume and the speed of your shaping (easier said than done.)

[pygmalion]

Thanks, msc. I value your input so much. Yes. I think a lot of it is pushng. I mean, really pushing into the floor, in order to make the necessary connections. Hard to describe, if you've never felt it.

[Vince A]

From Skippy Blair:

Hold onto the back of a chair, the kitchen sink, or whatever - just for stability and balance. Now spread your toes wide apart - as if you were trying to make a shoe tree out of your foot. (If you are so inclined - go ahead and take your shoes off so that you can SEE the difference.) Press all three toes (Big one & next two) down into the floor. If you stay in place, and don't buckle your knees, this action should push your body upward. Now use that same pressure into the floor and send your body to the SIDE - or BACK - or FORWARD - instead of UP! The same pressure that moved you UP - can move you OUT!

Some people find it physically difficult to stretch their toes - particularly if this has not been part of their daily routine. However, stretching the toes is a vital, necessary practice, if you want to have strong, healthy feet. Stretching the toes takes pressure off of bunions. - And if you DON'T have bunions, stretching the toes will serve as a form of prevention. Stretching the toes allows the arch to settle into the floor and redistributes your weight. Ladies have reported dancing all night without discomfort, once they learned to spread their toes, inside their shoe, instead of scrunching the toes together.

Many dancers "work out" to keep their bodies in shape. Feet also need a "work out": Press yourself up onto your "3-Toe Base" - Stretch the toes as wide apart as they will go. Move your body up and down through the flexibility and control of your ankles - (not the knees) Repeating this exercise can become a good "workout" for the feet. In a few short weeks you will enjoy more flexibility and strength in your toes. Your dancing will improve and your feet will feel wonderful!

If you want to know what the "3-toe Base" is, let me know, I'll copy and paste it for you. It'll change your dancing.

Vince

[msc]

Thanks, msc. I value your input so much. Yes.

I appreciate the confidence Jenn, but anything I post should be taken as a suggestion rather than gospel truth. And like Jonathan said, it's easier to show these things than to describe them, so sometimes important details get lost in a written desciption.

[suek]

I haven't read all the posts, so if someone else brought this to the table, forgive me.

Just took a lindy workshop with Steven and Virginie over the weekend and they did an exercise for "feeling the floor" that is really great. (They had done it in Catalina over the summer too and as usual I could use the repetition.)

Get in side-by-side figure skating position with your partner. Follow is on lead's left. Clasp forearms (better connection than hands) like you're skating. Connection is in hand/forearm and follow's ribs to lead's left side.

Lead starts (duh!) and follow lags just a hair and you move around line of dance pushing into and out of the floor, gliding/skating around the room.

Awesome exercise. Hope this verbalization of something visual and kinesthetic works.

Thanks

Sue

[pygmalion]

Thanks, msc. I value your input so much. Yes.

I appreciate the confidence Jenn, but anything I post should be taken as a suggestion rather than gospel truth. And like Jonathan said, it's easier to show these things than to describe them, so sometimes important details get lost in a written desciption.

Yes, msc, I am confident in your advice and suggestions, because you haven't misled me yet. That doesn't mean I accept everything that's said here without question. I am a somewhat critical thinker, after all. But here's the thing I've learned from my time at DF. Whatever advice you get, get up, go to the practice floor, and TRY IT. It's amazing how much I've learned that way. No, not everything I've read has clicked for me, but hey. I'm going to try it. :D

[suek]

Ooh just read Vince's post from Skippy Blair and tried it. Feels great. Don't have bunions, have a Morton's neuroma and have been living with it/working around it for six months or more.

This feels great. Skippy Blair, whoever you are, thanks!

[Vince A]

Skppy Blair is a extraordinary lady. Rolling counts, dance intensives, 3-toe base, and so on, are things that she truly bleieves and teaches.

Check out the company she joins at the bottom of the following:

http://www.swingdancecouncil.com/WSDCSDHOF.htm

Vince

PS. Glad those exercises work for you . . . I do them daily . . . most of the time!

[msc]

Hmm.

Are you supposed to use a "three toe base" while dancing? If so, the Latin technique I've learned is slightly different.

[SDsalsaguy]

msc...I think this is just a version of using inside edge vs. whole foot pressure...especially as I read this as being particularly targeted to WCS which is less particular/extreme on this then is dancesport. Does this sound right to you Vince?

[msc]

My thoughts exactly Jonathan. I'm so used to having pressure from the middle of the big toe inward, it's just totally strange to me to think of using those other two toes on a consistent basis, as odd as that probably sounds to Vince. Even in Standard, I generally stay well to the inside of the foot, although there are some exceptions.

[pygmalion]

My new teacher (feminine/arm styling -- she's great :D ) gave me an interesting new perspective on this. She suggested that, rather than thinking of my foot connecting to the floor, I think of one whole side of my body stacked on top of that foot and connecting to the floor. And that mental imagery really helps me to feel connected. Pretty cool. We tried out for rhythm dances. Haven't tried smooth yet. :D

[Vince A]

Jenn,
I've had that presented to me in a recent private lesson, but kinda of said in the reverse. She told me to think "connected" to the floor starting just under my armpits down through me feet to the floor. She had said this before to me a few lessons back, but it finally sunk in just recently!

[pygmalion]

I had another great lesson Monday afternoon -- and more talk about connection to the floor. This time, we talked about rocks steps and checking action -- changes of direction. Turns out, I've been moving/releasing the supporting foot from the floor, thereby losing both my connection to the floor and my ability to use the supporting foot to propel me into further action. A tough habit to break, I admit, but at least now I know what I'm doing wrong. :? :D