Wait a sec.... Polka? [Archive]

dancingdoc

01-04-2006, 07:22 PM

For me, I think knowing how to dance polka in a CW venue is just another tool in your toolbox. Yes, if all you know how to dance is two step, you could also dance a very fast two step to the typical polka songs played where I dance (they are very fast); but doing a polka just "fits better" to the music. On the ballroom side I know I feel frustrated when a samba song is played because I don't know how to samba. I suppose I could dance another dance that I DO know to it, but it just wouldn't fit.

The music suggests the dance to me, not the other way around. And there are definitely polka friendly country songs that are popular. By the way, I love picking up new albums and then figuring out what songs can be danced to each song.

Larinda McRaven

01-04-2006, 09:26 PM

Ballroom competitions have polka as an entry as well.

Vince A

01-05-2006, 10:05 AM

I speculate that you could question the same vis-a-vis Cha Cha, or Waltz, or NC2S, or WCS, or ECS . . . leaving only the 2 Step and Triple 2 for C&W dances to be danced to C&W music. Who assumed that any of those dances are "strictly ballroom" (pun intended)?

It's just that, somewhere, along the way, someone happened to do a Waltz to 6 count C&W music, then someone tried a Cha to Cha type C&W music, then of course, WCS developed into it, and when the WCS music was too fast to dance to, they tried an ECS. Isn't it fair to add a Polka to Polka-possible music?

Then somebody in the C&W dance world said . . . "Hey, let's have a dance competition, but we can't have only 2 dances, so let's add the Waltz, the Polka, the Cha Cha, WCS, the ECS, and the NC2S." Now there are eight dances that are seen most often, and a few others that are infrequently danced!

As a final point, not all dances are strictly constrained to specific dance venues . . . believe it or not, I shockingly heard a 2 Step begin to play during a break at a "Ballroom Only" event, and many, many more of those in the audience who previously didn't get up for the ballroom music, got up to dance to the 2 Step music!

However . . I hear ya . . and so to are many of the rulemakers for most C&W venues. Dances are getting more and more structured to look like the ballroom equivalency.

Boynextdoor

01-05-2006, 04:32 PM

Hahahaha, Vince, you're a nut.

Wow, I didn't know country western places had all those types of dances...

Wait... How do you waltz to a 6 count?

So what's the verdict to the Mickey mouse Club March?

Vince A

01-05-2006, 05:28 PM

Wait... How do you waltz to a 6 count?

1,2,3 4,5,6

ANd yes, I guess you could Polka to the MMC theme song . . . but not me!

Boynextdoor

01-05-2006, 05:53 PM

Haha! Success!

How do you do the feet?

Steve Pastor

01-06-2006, 02:19 PM

Many Germans immigrated to Texas. They brought their music and dance with them, and they had an influence on "cowboy" dances. Hence, polka in country western.
The ballroom people seem to adopt popular dances. They then standardize them and teach people the "correct" way to do the dance. They are very specific in how things are done.
A good example is Tango. Argentine Tango is now very different than the various styles of ballroom tango, and AT people aren't very interested in codifying how to do their dance.
The 1998 "Dance with Me" highlights the difference between ballroom Latin dance, and what is sometimes called "street style".
And let's not forget some other country western dances that are done several times each evening (at least here in Oregon): schottiche, cowboy cha cha, and horse shoe.

waltzgirl

01-06-2006, 07:46 PM

At a recent ballroom social I attended, there was a couple who were obviously very proficient country dancers. They didn't know all the ballroom dances, so they danced a Two-step to Quickstep music. It worked great and was really fun to watch. They also did WCS to rumba music, which worked but not as well.

Vince A

01-07-2006, 08:11 PM

How do you do the feet?
It is essentially the exact same dance, albeit, less of a box-step look. More about traveling CCW around the dance floor, and much, much, more moves, and combinations of moves. Same whisks, hesitations, twinkles, chasses, relevees (spelling - someone???), etc., etc., etc.

Different clothes give it a different look. Different music gives it a different sound, but if you blocked out the look of the clothes and put earplugs in, and watched a couple C&W dancers doing a Waltz . . . you'd know it was a Waltz.

Steve Pastor

01-08-2006, 03:18 PM

Vince and all:
Ballroom dancers are taught to affect a very specific posture. They also do things like put their arm and hand out parallel to the ground with the hand curved downward when they separate.
Country western is a lot more relaxed. Look carefully and you might see a lot of what I call the "cowboy slouch".
When I see "ballroom dancers" dancing at a country western place, I think the way they dance shouts ballroom.
But, yeah, you would know it was a waltz.

Vince A

01-08-2006, 06:12 PM

Good points, Steve . . .

chachachacat

01-08-2006, 06:32 PM

Did somone call

"Super Speller"

to the rescue?:D

Releve with an accent` over the last e. From the French, from ballet.

Hey you ol':cowboy: ! I was just thinking of you. Long time, no see.
Did you miss the 2005 DF Awards?

chachachacat

01-08-2006, 06:35 PM

Vince A

01-08-2006, 11:15 PM

Hey ccc,
How are you? How is the bod doing? Are you dancing?

Thanks for the spelling help . . . and to think, I write for a living. I should have looked like I normally do!!!

Yea . . . I agree with working the arms and hands, and my Pro and my coach would skin me alive for "slouching" . . . not only in Waltz, but any of my dances. Hell, they yelled at me if I stood in anything than third position while being introduced . . .

chachachacat

01-09-2006, 12:04 PM

Hey ccc,
How are you? How is the bod doing? Are you dancing?

I am doing pretty well, thanks. How are you?
"The bod" enjoyed the holidays - there's a good excuse!
I danced with my SO a couple times on vacation, meaning he fakes a swing and a fox-ish thing. No, he won't let me teach him.
Here's to more dancing in 2006!

Vince A

01-09-2006, 12:28 PM

I am doing pretty well, thanks.
That is good to read!!!
How are you?
Good for right now . . . weight coming off ery slowy, but Pro-Am Showcase training starts next week, so I should lose 20 pretty quickly! Plus, we have a World Champion (female) swing dancer coming to our house next weekend for both days to work with my wife . . . I hope to get a few privates in-between with her! More weight adn great training.
"The bod" enjoyed the holidays - there's a good excuse!
Is there a smile on your face???
I danced with my SO a couple times on vacation, meaning he fakes a swing and a fox-ish thing. No, he won't let me teach him.
Some men are just hard-headed . . . not me of course:raisebro:
Here's to more dancing in 2006!
A lot more dancing . . wish I had the energy of my wife . . . three hours Friday night, five hours on Saturday, and six hours on Sunday. Yeow . . . I do have other priorities . . . there were football games on this weekend!!!

Take care . . .:kissme:

Boynextdoor

01-17-2006, 03:56 PM

Wow, all this time apparently I've had a country western posture!

SuzieQ

04-17-2006, 01:58 PM

[QUOTE=Steve Pastor]Vince and all:
Ballroom dancers are taught to affect a very specific posture. They also do things like put their arm and hand out parallel to the ground with the hand curved downward when they separate.
Country western is a lot more relaxed. Look carefully and you might see a lot of what I call the "cowboy slouch".
When I see "ballroom dancers" dancing at a country western place, I think the way they dance shouts ballroom.QUOTE]
And what's wrong with that? As more and more ballroom dancers get into C&W, that is becoming the norm and more expected.
And I love the polka! I have been doing it pro-am for several years and now my husband and I are going to add it to our repetoire!

Steve Pastor

04-21-2006, 05:41 PM

I did not write that there was anything wrong with dancing ballroom style when you are doing country. It was an observation of what to me is obvious. Last night I watched a woman line dancing with a very erect posture, arms held straight down at her sides, and tight, intricate foot work. Irish step dancer, I'll bet. A good friend of mine who danced jazz for a long time looks like a jazz dancer when she line dances, an observation I've shared with her many times.
As I've learned different dances and styles, I know that the way I approach things has changed. Doing the Irish inspired line dance "Whirly Reel"? Hey, I want to look like the River Dance people (as best I can). When I do the line dance "Hip Hop" I want to look like the dancers in "You Got Served". Dancing to Ricky Martin's "Uno Dos Tres"? Guess what I try to do there.
"Save the Last Dance" has a scene I really enjoyed about a ballet dancer learning to do hip hop.
You get the point - different music - different styles.
But, that's just me. As long as you are willing to share the floor, do what makes you happy.
Country western really isn't the Dark Side, but it IS different in some ways.
And, yeah, I like polka, too, but hardly anyone does it where I dance. (I try to look like Frankie Yankovic when I dance polka (just kidding!))

PasoDancer

04-21-2006, 05:51 PM

[When] I see "ballroom dancers" dancing at a country western place, I think the way they dance shouts ballroom.

Yes- that's the general idea, for us, at least :twisted:.

The reason we're AT the country/western place is only because we couldn't find any ballroom venue at that particular last moment.

How can we spot country two-steppers at a ballroom venue? Betcha it isn't the posture OR the styling...

Easy... the two-step is the only thing they know, and do... to every single song.

:D (all in good fun, and yes, that was a broad-stroke, tongue-in-cheek generalization. If anybody is curious as to why the two-step joke, it's a long story, Lol)

PS: If you were dancing to Martin's "Maria", the original version would be a samba, the Nevins remix would be a cha-cha, and who knows what the other mixes would be. :)

kayak

04-21-2006, 11:15 PM

Now, we have to ask for the long story! Even I can dance more than just the two-step :)

PasoDancer

04-21-2006, 11:43 PM

This gent down here is eighty-four years old. When he asked us if we danced, we said yes, he said "Oh, come on, then, let's dance!"... it was a waltz playing at the moment, so when he started "two forward, one back, draggin' them feet allllll the way around", I was shocked. I felt like a pack mule being dragged around. "What, don't you know how to dance? You said you did," he started.

"Well yeah- we've been doing beginner ballroom and social stuff... "

"Oh! Well that's crap... nobody does that stuff, the two-step... that's what all the kids is doin' now..."

I sat down, puzzled. My partner was sitting there snickering at me (so I whacked him upside the head).

The next place we went to dance, a guy came up "Would you like to two-step?"... it was a west-coast-swing song.

Everywhere we GO here, it's the same fossils doing the SAME TWO STEP to EVERYTHING. When they lead you into something, they treat you like modeling clay- they just throw you right into it and through it, then yank you back out, and then stand there for ten minutes and tell you what you should have done to not screw up, LOL. I felt like I was going to get a switch taken to me a couple times.

Later on, the first old guy who knew "ballroom dancing" finally told some friends of mine "Well... I'd danced IN a ballroom... I thought that counted... I mean, ain't street dancin' when you're out in the road in the summer when they play bluegrass?".... :headwall: LOL

kayak

04-26-2006, 11:56 PM

Well, that explains everything. All you really needed to do was turn up his hearing aid.

Yea, there is no lack of bad dancing at a country bar. But think of all the money you are saving on yoga sessions with all the extra stretching?

SIBruno

05-04-2006, 01:30 AM

Are there alot of steps in polka? All I know of is that hoppy step that almost looks like a quickstep move. I don't really know country western so just curious :)

kayak

05-04-2006, 03:43 PM

You can have a great time just doing triple step left, triple step right and bounding around the floor. However, there are a bunch of inside, outside turns, cuts and whips.

PasoDancer

07-14-2006, 01:47 AM

I liked polka. I was advised, however, that it was uncouth to so much as say "the P word" in our studio, so I've sadly abandoned it for now.

I miss polka.

blue

07-14-2006, 05:18 AM

Why is polka in C&W? I realize it is a great dance and it transcends borders, but I thought it was more... Ballroomy...

Haha, to me polka primarily is Swedish/Nordic folk dance... no kidding! although variants of polka such as "polkett" is more common, and the polka is quite a bit younger than the other dances in the genre. Actually most "traditional" social dances in Europe originally were dances for the nobility danced at the courts in like 17th century, and then spread to common people. It seems the polka made a similar transition later on, on more than one place on the globe.

Just as a comparison the Nordic folk dance also includes a variety of waltz. I have no problem with the ballroomers doing their version, but it is quite different and also danced to music a bit different - bot clearly waltzes, but different.

SuzieQ

07-14-2006, 08:17 AM

You can have a great time just doing triple step left, triple step right and bounding around the floor. However, there are a bunch of inside, outside turns, cuts and whips.

Don't forget skips!

SuzieQ

07-14-2006, 08:21 AM

I liked polka. I was advised, however, that it was uncouth to so much as say "the P word" in our studio, so I've sadly abandoned it for now.

I miss polka.

Hugs to you for your "location." I love the polka, too. It's just fun. Even though a lot of people at our studio compete in c&w, we never do polka in class or at parties. Occasionally they will play one at the USADance dance, and my husband and I will do our routine--I can't even drag my teacher out to do it with me!

Vince A

07-14-2006, 10:02 AM

Don't forget skips!
. . . backwards, at that . . .

SuzieQ

07-14-2006, 11:17 AM

. . . backwards, at that . . .

Ha!...Yes! With arms, and while turning!

Vince A

07-14-2006, 12:02 PM

Ha!...Yes! With arms, and while turning!
. . . and usually holding hands with your parner!

Who said the Polka was easy!

Steve Pastor

07-14-2006, 03:07 PM

I guess this is mostly for PasoDancer, but it applies to everyone.
My two favorite "categories" of dance are country western and Argentine Tango. The thing they have in common is that these forms are not dominated by studios. Maggie complains that she can't even find a syllabus for AT.
And, although there are competitions for both CW and AT, one AT saying is that "ballroom competes, Argentine Tango connects".
I made up my own dance to "Save a Horse (Ride a Cowboy)" and have danced it for over a year while everyone else did the line dance "Hip Hop". Some people told me they liked what I was doing. Some people asked what the heck I was doing. But No One told be I shouldn't be doing it. (course they knew they would be wasting their breath)
What does this have to do with polka?
If you want to dance polka, try going to a CW place, and wait for a fast two step. All you need is two people. If someone questions you, tell them you are doing polka, and tell them it goes really well with that music. Ask if they wanna' learn. Tell them the old cowboys used to do it. Heck, that's not even a lie.
If you aren't running into other people, and are respectful of how They are dancing, I would be willing to bet they will accept what you are doing.
You might even start a trend.

Vince A

07-14-2006, 04:57 PM

In almost every C&W place that I've been to dance, many do Polka. Never knew it was even questioned . . . it's a natural dance, as is the 2 Step and the Triple 2, at a place that plays C&W music . . . the music makes you do the dance that fits!

PasoDancer

07-15-2006, 03:00 PM

The problem with all the C&W places here is that the floor is completely and rudely dominated by linedancers. Some places have liners over here, partner-ers over there... most are courteous... but not at places like Kornbread (yes,) Junction in Tunnel Hill. The partner dancers will already BE on the floor, THEN the linedancers bump into people and maneuver everyone out of the way- and then start dancing. To a waltz.

We'll just practice on our own, and then, if the opportunity ever presents itself, we'll do it again sometime.

kayak

07-16-2006, 03:15 AM

One thing I noticed is that the word polka sounds old, so calling it a triple step makes it sound like something different.

Didn't the triple-2 step get started because so much of the cw music was fast enough that everyone was getting exhausted doing polkas?

VRRDA

08-02-2006, 09:13 PM

I am really enjoying the topics posted on Dance Forums, so I cannot resist commenting on the ideas coming up in this thread.

Why Polka? Probably because, like Swing, Rock and Street Latin, it is a people dance, spontaneous, boisterous and joyful. Not studied and overly formularised.

It is easy to hear the German, oompah band, influence in Mexican music.

We use a Polka move in Rock dancing for a bigger, faster triple step.

Lately we have had a flood of Ballroom people coming to social Rock’n’Roll. They are easy to pick by their upright posture, the studied arm gestures and the numbers on their backs.

Vince A

08-02-2006, 10:14 PM

. . . "They are easy to pick . . . by their . . . numbers on their backs."
LMAO . . . a perfect description!

dancergal

08-04-2006, 05:54 PM

I took one class in Polka during a County and Swing convention. It sure was a lot harder than it looks. Most of the people in the class were country dancers and they all commented on how hard the class was. And of course, I don't remember any of the moves today, but it was a fun class.

kayak

08-06-2006, 12:26 AM

Plus, it is a great workout :)

tangotime

08-06-2006, 05:10 AM

Point of interest, by 1921, the world champ. had 7 dances, one was the " Spanish Schottische ", thus placing it firmly in the ballroom genre . This was pre dated in the early 19th cent. by plain Polka danced in the " Assemblies " ( public dance halls " ). The origin of the word is " half step in each bar " from the czech. word " Pulk "

Steve Pastor

12-09-2006, 02:43 PM

Not convinced polka is country yet?
Tex Williams was a very popular Western Swing musician in the 1940s. He also starred in about a dozen cowboy movies.
http://www.b-westerns.com/texwill2.htm
Hey, look! Three polkas in this Tex Williams collection.
http://www.rootsandrhythm.com/roots/NEWSLETTER129/newsletter129_country.htm
I wonder if he played them in LA when he was popular there? That would be just about the same time he was playing Western Swing that people were jitterbugging to. Come to think of it, lots of those folks were from Texas and Oklahoma and were there for jobs in the defense industry because of WWII. By golly, they probably liked to dance polka, too. Never thought of that one before.

folkfiddle

12-19-2006, 08:21 PM

1,2,3 4,5,6

ANd yes, I guess you could Polka to the MMC theme song . . . but not me!

I think that people who REALLY love to polka... will dance the polka to almost anything! We played for an anniversary party several years ago... the family LOVED to polka! They danced to all of our music! Fiddle tunes, bluegrass songs, folk songs, etc. However... when we played waltzes.... they waltzed. :)

Vince A

12-21-2006, 09:59 AM

Ya' gotta know that we're mainly Swing dancers, so with that said . . .

We went to a similar party, and no matter what they played . . . with the exception of a Waltz every 4 or 5 songs, everyone did a continuously-turning-'til-your-dizzy Polka to the same music by the same accordian-playing singer and his band (which sounded great BTW) . . . and although I tried my best to look and act comfortable, my wife and I, and our friends could only take so much of the same sound . . . we left very early!

We went to a ballroom dance on the other side of town, watched all of those "happy ballroom dancers," then we left there, and went back to the more exciting Polka fest!

Steve Pastor

01-24-2007, 10:43 AM

After running across "Tennessee Tango" I looked around for some info on Pee Wee King. Turns out he wrote and recorded "Tennessee Waltz" in 1947. Patti Page recorded the better known, bigger selling version in 1950.
Pee Wee was from Wisconsin, was Polish, and played polkas, among other things, on the Grand Ole Opry in the 40s.
Read all about it here http://www.cmt.com/artists/az/king_pee_wee/bio.jhtml
So, there you go, polka on the Grand Ole Opry. It doesn't get any more country than that.

Gypsy Wishing

01-24-2007, 02:48 PM

Is their anyone else out that thinks country music, with a strong syncopate, goes thumpa dump instead of om pah pah, and that samba stying and steps are a better listening fit than polka.

Steve Pastor

01-24-2007, 03:36 PM

I'm going to assume that your "thumpa dump" wasn't written with a certain intent and go on to country music in general.
A few days ago I wrote about the sophistication in some songs that come under the broad umbrella of "country". That example was Garth Brooks' "Cowboy Bill", a waltz.
"Country" music has embraced many different rhythms, instruments, styles, etc during the past century. Country Western dance includes a bunch of different dances to go along with the variety of music that is "country".
One dance that is popular at country venues is Night Club Two Step, which is mostly danced to slow songs. If the song is fast enough, I'll throw in a bunch of salsa stuff, which feels more natural with a faster beat, but stays with the quick quick slow of Night Club.
Give a listen to Cowboy Troy's "I Play Chicken with the Train" on CMT.com and think about how you would dance to that one.
Western Swing is another kind of music that is labeled "country", but is a lot more swing/ jazz, and in its heydays back in the 1940s rivaled the much better know Big Band Swing outfits ala Swing Kids.
If you hear samba in a "country" song, dance samba. If you hear samba in every "country" song.....

kayak

01-28-2007, 10:46 AM

Steve, I always get intrigued with your mixing of dances. How do you keep in the character of a the dance? For instance, throwing salsa moves in NC2? Just taking something simple like a cross-body lead. How does the lady know you want her to run, run, run as in NC2 vs salsa's 5,6,7 in-place? I think any of the ladies I know who are good enough to follow my core are good enough to know my awesome latin hip motion isn't making a very smooth NC2?

Steve Pastor

01-29-2007, 12:56 PM

In my world view there are steps that you do, and there is how you do the steps. How you do the steps, combined with posture and other elements, is style. Steps are steps. Moves are moves. How you do them is styling.
These are the basic steps for the two dances, Salsa, and Night Club Two Step, as I have learned them.
The Night Club Two Step Basic is quick quick slow with the quick quick being a rock step, and the slow being a side step.
Salsa Basic is quick quick slow with the quick quick being a rock step forward starting with the left foot for the man.
The "timing" (ie qq s) of the steps is the same.
In salsa I was taught to step onto a basically straight leg when stepping forward, with my feet at about a 45 degree angle outward. This emphasizes the natural hip motion when stepping. The connection is a bit "tight" and occurs with the leader’s and follower’s arm being nearly perpendicular. This tighter, more energized connection between partners aids is exchanging and directing the higher energy level in salsa (the music is faster).
NC2S is much more relaxed. There is less energy in the music, so the connection is less intense, and hip motion is "natural" since there is no specific way to stand or move.
(I see people doing a pivoting movement to the side that is chained together in NC2S. I do that, too. But when I do it, we are still doing quick quick slow, quick quick slow. Not run run run.)

All of this is of course in general, and maybe we should note that I only took Salsa lessons for three months, and don’t really consider myself to be a Salsa dancer.
So, with one of my better partners, when the music is faster, but it's at the country place, I just switch to moving forward and backward instead of side to side, and leave out the salsa styling by stepping "naturally'.
Sometimes I will ask them to create a better connection with my left hand as in salsa. (Teaching on the dance floor! You know what? The women who accept input on the floor learn stuff for free that the other ones take how long, and how many bucks to learn? If it's not welcome, I just leave them alone.)

OK. Cross body lead.
The way I learned salsa, and any other dance (except Argentine Tango) is that the timing of the steps does not change no matter what you are doing. So, the timing for a cross body lead is the same as a basic: quick quick slow. * (see the next post for more on this) I am just asking her to step forward and "around" me when she steps forward on her right.
Doing this usually is disconcerting for most women, the first time. Because, after all, they never learned this in a lesson. Maybe it’s not even a NC2S move! But, the better ones figure out that I’m not asking them to do anything except move in a direction that they aren’t familiar with (sometimes with a little verbal hint to "just keep doing your steps"). There's a bit more to it than that, but that is the essence of it. We work out the details through repetition.
The partners that I cherish are the ones who enjoy trying out new things. One of my best dance buddies used to say, "No blood on the dance floor" when something went weird and I apologized to her for messing it up.
I enjoyed dancing with her so much that I would literally think through new things to do while I was falling asleep at night.
So, just try leaving out the awesome Latin hip motion when you do NC2.

Steve Pastor

01-29-2007, 12:59 PM

No matter the dance, if the steps change it creates a lot of confusion (again except for AT). At "my" country western place one of the instructors teaches the turns as quick quick quick for the woman. He does not, however, tell the men to change their steps from the two step quick quick slow, slow. This explains why so many women who take his lessons have to look at the guy’s feet to figure out what foot he is on.
If I can get the woman to stay with quick quick slow, slow in two step (Again, teaching on the dance floor!), and can get her to think about her feet rather than which way she is going next, etc; All of a sudden, I, and we, can just start improvising, and doing whatever, and it works out, almost like Magic. Women who have never had a lesson in what I’m leading can do the "moves", because, really they are just stepping quick quick slow, slow. (The other really important things are to keep your feet under your center, and take smaller, rather than larger steps)
One of my favorite memories is the time I was dancing with one of our better gals. I have no idea what we did, or what I led, but it went on for quite some time. At the end of it Diane looked down at my feet, and said, rather surprised, "You’re still on the right (she meant correct) foot!" I said, "Yeah?" So was she.

kayak

01-30-2007, 05:06 PM

Cool, lots of stuff in those two posts. Sounds like cw dancing is quite a bit different up in your area. I have a hard time imagining how your 2-step turn works. It seems like a beat is missing?

The run, run, run in NC2S is qqs rythm. We just take the pivot energy of a CBL and make the third basic sideways again. The run part is to remind us not to make the dance too small.

I'm not much for teaching on the dance floor. I'm not even close to being a pro. So as the guy, the odds are better than even that my lead is as messed up as her turn. It is amazing how just changing my arm motion a couple inches makes the difference between working great with almost any woman and not working with hardly anyone.

Steve Pastor

01-30-2007, 06:14 PM

Maybe I focused too much on the phrase "2 step turn", since I wrote this about 2 step!? Let me know if I'm not answering your question about the missing beat.

Usually the woman does a 360 turn on either the slow slow, taking 2 steps, or on the quick quick, again taking 2 steps.
The better guys can do the same thing.
The main thing is to not take 3 slow steps in a row while turning, or 3 quicks in a row. If the woman or the man does that, one of you is on the "wrong" foot. If it takes 3 steps to do the 360, no problem. But if you've just done 2 quicks, your next step should be a slow.
All of the preceeding assumes that the non turning partner stays with the qq s s.
But what happens if you both turn at the same time? It works out if you both stay with the qq s s .

There are lots of people that can only do things big. They run into other people more than people who can vary the size of their steps (Closing on another couple or the edge of the dance floor. Take small step, or step in place.)

P.S. I've danced a bit in Vegas, San Antonio, the East Bay, and in Orlando, and most of the women didn't have any problems with any of this. In San Antonio one woman was very uncomfortable when we ended up in a sweetheart position. I've since learned that "In Texas once you've got a woman in your arms, you don't let her go." So, I guess lots of stuff is not too common there.

kayak

01-31-2007, 03:24 PM

Cool, so now we need a name for Steve's Polka/Tango and NC2S/Salsa combos :)

connectionjunkie

03-05-2007, 10:56 AM

I haven't read through this whole thread..but the beginning question brought me in...

As it should be, the music inspires the dance that is danced. It is as simple as that. IMHO, I don't think the 'label' is ever important when you are dancing.

CW music has a lot of variety, so of course two-step, although that is what most people are familiar with, doesn't cover it all!

Steve Pastor

03-29-2007, 12:49 PM

Hey look, a polka at #2 on the country charts! OK, it was 1947.

Hot Country Songs 1946 Complete Chart at Billboard.biz
Position Artist Name Title Imprint | Distributing Label
1 Bob Wills New Spanish Two Step Columbia
2 Al Dexter Guitar Polka Columbia

Al Dexter. You all remember him, don't you? (not me!)

Steve Pastor

07-28-2007, 04:57 PM

Hey, Elvis included a polka on his first album!
"Just Because" was a big hit for Frankie Yankovich in 1948, and was recorded by Elvis early in his career. I heard the Yankovich version growing up, but had never heard the Elivs one.
Tell your dj you want him to play that polka by that country guy, Elvis.
http://www.clevelandstyle.com/alltimehits/justbecause.html

tangotime

07-29-2007, 05:34 AM

[quote=Steve Pastor;370725]
These are the basic steps for the two dances, Salsa, and Night Club Two Step, as I have learned them .
.
Salsa Basic is quick quick slow with the quick quick being a rock step forward starting with the left foot for the man.
.
In salsa I was taught to step onto a basically straight leg when stepping forward, with my feet at about a 45 degree angle outward. This emphasizes the natural hip motion when stepping. The connection is a bit "tight" and occurs with the leader’s and follower’s arm being nearly perpendicular. This tighter, more energized connection between partners aids is exchanging and directing the higher energy level in salsa (the music is faster).

. There is so many things incorrect about your salsa experience .
sounds like you have been taught to dance it the same way that we teach International latin.

All you have stated, is exactly the opposite .
Latin dances are predicated on the "call and response " theory .In otherwords, it commences the break ( 1 or 2 ) backwards on the mans right foot ( side left prep ) . As does , Bolero ( on 3 ), Cha Cha and Mambo .

We tend to teach breaking forward on left- IF you understand the bar upon which you are dancing ( 2nd of the octave ) always explaining the fundamental reasons for the approach . The problem here? most teachers do not know the difference !. The chain schools still teach the traditional method, as I have described above .

Also, the leg action, is completely different . I teach and dance " authentic " cuban style , after multi yrs of immersion into the latino community , which replicates the casino style, that is still danced in cuba .

My guess, is that you have been taught the slot ( la style) which in some ways , parodies w .c. .swing . This is a comparatively new style approach to the dance, but departs from the format so drastically, they look like 2 different dances .

So many people, have the incorrect impression about music speeds . They are NOT all fast by any stretch of the imagination. On the contrary, there are far more slower tempos recorded, than fast !( salsa dura and descarga being the fast tempi )

You should pay a visit to " Latino " club, and experience how the latin dances are performed.

As is usual, people teaching genres, with no researched background , churn out carbon copies of the " instant " variety of dance .

The " flash and trash " styles, invariably attracts the more superficial , and casual social dancers. Let me add, that is NOT the fault of the student-- but those who have found a way to make a quick buck , by teaching it !

The usual reponses to the " style " change (came out in the early nineties ), was music .-- Reality ?-- there were no radical music changes in that time period .
Again , a v,good marketing tool , that occurs time and time again in the industry (latin hustle to 3 count -- bolero to Intern. style rhumba, etc. ) .

Were these changes for the better ?-- a moot point . Pretty much all latinos would disagree !!!

Steve Pastor

07-30-2007, 10:55 AM

Odd that this follows a post about Elvis doing a polka.
I'll just say that my salsa instructor was from Guatamala and was a very respected leader of the Salsa community in Portland, Oregon. His name was Eric Gonzalez. I hear he has returned to Guatamala.
Eric was certainly no "chain school teacher'. I would have continued studying with him, but for some reason he was let go from the "studio" where he had been teaching. He started teaching somewhere else, but I had discovered Argentine Tango, which suited me much better.

tangotime

07-30-2007, 11:11 AM

[quote=Steve Pastor;449257]Odd that this follows a post about Elvis doing a polka.
I'll just say that my salsa instructor was from Guatamala and was a very respected leader of the Salsa community in Portland, Oregon. His name was Eric Gonzalez. I hear he has returned to Guatamala.

If I hear one more time -- that because someone is Latino-- then they must be correct -- I believe thats your inference ? . Now i dont know him neither he-- me. i can only go on what you said-- and that is emphatically incorrect. Have studied this genre and danced it forclose to fifty yrs. EVERY world class teacher ( latino ) from torrres to frankie, would agree with what I posted, as far as the structural and musical interpretation has been designed.
The technique you described in foot positions, is categorically international latin--I teach that genre-- however-- it does not transcend into " street " salsa .

Those concepts ( street ) date back to the thirties, being borne out of Son and Danzon .

Because someone gets results in their teaching methods, it does not always mean that they are correct. I could delineate a whole host of " teachers ? " who are successful in churning out students . the problem ? much of the info is incorrect.--
Its not that I am against what they are doing perse-- but when one claims to be authentic, then they should at least understand the rudiments of the genre .
And incidentally-- when did Guatemala become a hot bed of Salsa ??