Helping to keep salsa alive

[Pacion]

This has been a pretty amazing year full of mucha Salsa!! I have had the opportunity to share my music with hundreds of thousands Salsa lovers from all parts of the world in 2005. Dancing brings great joy to many and I always take great pride in what I do best.

It makes me extremely happy to see so many people learning how to dance the music which I was born to. The Salsa events around the world have played a major role by offering dance workshops by top instructors. I hope that 2006 can bring more awareness to the music. For many years there have been musicians, promoters, club owners, dancers, DJ's, etc... who do this primarily for the love of the music. Now is the time to begin to pay more attention to the music and learn about the artists who are recording & performing the music which you are dancing.

In order to keep Salsa alive, it will require an effort from everyone.
1- Try to purchase at least one CD a month (not a bootleg) to support the musicians who put their blood, sweat & tears into these recordings.
2- When you are dancing to live music, at some point stop for a few minutes and look at the band and find out who is on stage. This will give you more awareness and help educate you more to the music. Aside from that, it shows a bit of appreciation to the musicians.
3- When you go to a salsa club, try to buy at least (1 or 2) bottles of water if you don't drink alcohol. This will help in maintaining the salsa nights open. Many clubs have discontinued their salsa nights, because they can not cover the overhead (expenses) with the money generated at the bar. Remember that the money generated at the bar is what covers the expenses (rent, insurance, security, promotion, electric bill, etc...) I know a bottle of water may seem expensive at a nightclub, but you have to look at it as a drink...not a bottle of water.
4- Dance Instructors... Please mention at some point in your workshop these points. Ask your students to try and purchase at least (1) CD a month. You can compile a list of the proper music to recommend to them, because most people do not know what to buy. I will be more than willing to compile a list for any instructor. Stress the importance of supporting the clubs by buying at least (1 or 2) bottles of water, to maintain the night open.

If we all come together to make everyone aware of these points, it will help keep Salsa alive and strong! And remember it is all about the music... Dancing is an _expression of the music.

May you have a Healthy & Happy New Year!

~ DJ Henry Knowles


I like the idea that he has mentioned about trying to get to know the music. I hope though, this does not give certain DJs the idea that they can talk incessently "by way of introducing a song"!

[africana]

huh another DJ from LA has been posting this exact message on multiple forums and without attribution...huh (yea i'm skeptical that salsa might dying lol plus it's DJs who sell those bootleg compilation CDs, go figure...)

[alemana]

i have never heard a DJ in new york get on the mic and talk about the songs they're playing. typically there is no mic anyway. at jimmy anton's, he gets on once or twice in the 4-hour period to welcome people or announce a performance, but that's it.

and i'm very glad it's so. don't need to hear any chatter, and the mic sound usually sucks.

[borikensalsero]

That's such nice set of statements. Thank you for posting them Pacion and giving Henry props as well.

[HothouseSalsero]

These are going to be some self-righteous responses to start off with, but what the hey:

1- Try to purchase at least one CD a month (not a bootleg) to support the musicians who put their blood, sweat & tears into these recordings.

I have been doing this.

2- When you are dancing to live music, at some point stop for a few minutes and look at the band and find out who is on stage. This will give you more awareness and help educate you more to the music. Aside from that, it shows a bit of appreciation to the musicians.

"What's this band again? Sonora Poncena? Hey, I think they have real potential. No seriously, that guy on the piano could probably quit his day job. I'm going to have to write this name down. . ." The point being, one doesn't usually accidentally stumble into going to see La Sonora Poncena or Eddie Palmieri or Grupo Niche, to begin with. Some local bands are frankly not worth taking much note of. On the other hand, if I am not on the dancefloor, I am sometimes the person who gets the applause going for a really good solo at a casual dance-oriented show, but it's not just polite applause--I do it because something was played that I think should be acknowledged.

3- When you go to a salsa club, try to buy at least (1 or 2) bottles of water if you don't drink alcohol. This will help in maintaining the salsa nights open. Many clubs have discontinued their salsa nights, because they can not cover the overhead (expenses) with the money generated at the bar. Remember that the money generated at the bar is what covers the expenses (rent, insurance, security, promotion, electric bill, etc...) I know a bottle of water may seem expensive at a nightclub, but you have to look at it as a drink...not a bottle of water.

I do this. Also, tip your bar-tender, even if you are just buying bottled water. I'm not sure that directly makes club owners happy, but in the long run, if the wait staff is unhappy with the customers at a salsa night, that is just one more strike against it. Club owners could get more creative about offering, say, unusual iced teas or fruit juices, but at many places that's going to happen. (I bet it happens in L.A. It ain't gonna happen in Philadelphia any time soon.)

*

Africana writes, "i'm skeptical that salsa might dying." While the dance continues to penetrate new corners of the globe (bringing the music with it), I think lots of people would agree that salsa as a genre is in decline, both commercially and artistically. I've read that Eddie Palmieri's recent Ritmo Caliente barely sold 5,000 copies. (Granted, he shoots himself in the foot a little by straddling salsa and Latin jazz on the same album. I bought that CD but didn't love the whole thing myself.) Very few recording artists are making much money from recording this music. I like plenty of salsa from recent decades, but I have to admit, it seems a lot easier to find entire albums of good material as you go back a couple decades (or so?). Fruthermore, a lot of the most informed salseros feel that the music has declined in various ways. I don't always agree with them, and I think sometimes it's just a matter of their having come to expect things to be a certain way, but I do take their opinions into consideration.

Just because new people are dancing to salsa around the world doesn't mean the music will somehow simply take care of itself. I would venture to say that most of the best salsa has come out of concentrated scenes, notably: New York, Puerto Rico (or parts of it--with a heck of a lot of artists coming from Ponce originally), and more recently Cali, Colombia. (I'm not sure where to fit Cuba into all of this, but it does sometimes make some terrific straight ahead salsa, and not just timba, which I'm thinking of as something else in this discussion.) Can that energy really exist if it's a matter of a couple bands in Finland, a band in Lebanon, a couple bands in Albania (or whatever)?

Salsa has lost some of its place in popular culture in one of salsa's most crucial centers: Puerto Rico. That casts a real shadow on salsa's future.

*

I have known casual salsa dancers who had very little interest in the music, beyond owning a couple CDs. There are other very serious dancers for whom the music is just not the main focus. We can regret that, and we can emphasize that for us, salsa dancing has everything to do with the music, but I think trying to make people guilty for not caring more about the music is counterproductive. (The list of suggestions from DJ Henry Knowles doesn't actually say, "Make people feel guilty for not supporting the music," but I feel that's the direction some suggestions are going in.) I think it's better to stick to positive steps: promoting the music informally, always being there to help beginners trying to get a foot-hold in the music, etc. Heck, I would even include handing out your own salsa mixes to interested, but unfamiliar, potential listeners.

*

One last thing: If there's anything salsa really doesn't need, it's celebrity DJs. The spotlight does not belong on the DJ. Salsa is not a DJ-oriented dance form. The songs are generally not made with the expectation that it will be mixed together with other tracks. Even if mixing is well done (which it usually isn't), I would generally rather just hear a song play out, rather than suddenly be transported from the mambo section of a Grupo Niche song to one in an Oscar D'Leon song. (And let's not even get into all this "Let's put 50 Cent over top an Oscar D'Leon track to make salsa more relevant.)

[africana]

I agree it's important to put the musicans way above DJs (and promoters), I've always "preached" that to my fellow dancers, but the culture has been swinging in favor of DJs for years, so it's much to their interest to propagate these types guilt-laden messages

Also as I've said elsewhere, salsa dance culture isn't a life-and-death critical thing to "keep alive", there are other much more important problems in life that can be solved with the $$ spent on frivolous dance stuff like congresses, clubbing, etc (can't believe I said that :p) Those things come and go

If anything needs to be cultivated and preserved is actual appreciation for the roots and the music, that's sorely lacking, but I also doubt it can actually "die", the music is too possessing of us

[dancin/dj]

I agree it's important to put the musicans way above DJs (and promoters), I've always "preached" that to my fellow dancers, but the culture has been swinging in favor of DJs for years, so it's much to their interest to propagate these types guilt-laden messages

Also as I've said elsewhere, salsa dance culture isn't a life-and-death critical thing to "keep alive", there are other much more important problems in life that can be solved with the $$ spent on frivolous dance stuff like congresses, clubbing, etc (can't believe I said that :p) Those things come and go

If anything needs to be cultivated and preserved is actual appreciation for the roots and the music, that's sorely lacking, but I also doubt it can actually "die", the music is too possessing of usgee i have not posted in a long time,well said africana. dancers will never really understand musicans as a general rule(i've been a musican for 30 years) a dj for 6 a dancer (lesson type for 10-and teach myself now) sorry im sure ya all read this bag of wind before, but musicans want you to pay attention more to them, than your dancing all night long without ever really taking time to watch and listen-and this goes for all genres-all musicans feel the same no matter what type music(yes there glad your dancing if they do dance music) but there not stupid and like interaction ,face this fact, music of the 1950"s to 1979 was simply (except for he roaring 20"s) simply the best music put out in all types of genres of music-salsa- disco- oldies-rock and roll etc, its gone folks (overall) of course there are some cool artists here and there. why do people think and want to push salsa music on every one? face it not everyone likes it they way you or i do,its changing and has changed and will grow in different ways(you will like he old-cool) so do i) nice article from henry knowles i got it some time ago-he"s a pretty cool dude,happy dancin.

[Pacion]

That's such nice set of statements. Thank you for posting them Pacion and giving Henry props as well.

My pleasure Boriken! I do believe in "giving credit where credit is due" just in case people throw rotten eggs instead of flowers ;)

[Sagitta]

Some good things said. I agree with some and disagree with others. I will promote being friendly and welcoming to everyone, including beginners.

I will not buy water. If places want me to buy stuff then they need to make available things I want to buy, such as smoothies. At one place I got into the habit of buying a chili dog as I liked it, even skipping dinner and coming to have that (to help support the place), then chilling a little while before dancing. I even tipped. Nothing else was worth it for me.

I make recommendations to people about the music to buy, based on the types of music they like.

[amrimi]

I will not buy water. If places want me to buy stuff then they need to make available things I want to buy, such as smoothies. At one place I got into the habit of buying a chili dog as I liked it, even skipping dinner and coming to have that (to help support the place), then chilling a little while before dancing. I even tipped. Nothing else was worth it for me.


I think his point wasn't about that we all should drink water at our salsa venues but that we should buy at least 2 non-alcoholic drinks and don't drink tap water or at the car. Because dancers tend to don't drink so many or non alcoholic drinks.

[Ellis]

...

I will not buy water. If places want me to buy stuff then they need to make available things I want to buy, such as smoothies. At one place I got into the habit of buying a chili dog as I liked it, even skipping dinner and coming to have that (to help support the place), then chilling a little while before dancing. I even tipped. Nothing else was worth it for me...
I think his point wasn't about that we all should drink water at our salsa venues but that we should buy at least 2 non-alcoholic drinks and don't drink tap water or at the car. Because dancers tend to don't drink so many or non alcoholic drinks.


I think Sagitta's point was that the choice of non-alcoholic drinks is very limited in most bars (Fruit juices, sugary drinks, caffeine or bottled water).

With the taxation regime on alcohol in many countries, the profit margin on many non-alcoholic drinks is significantly greater than on alcohol. e.g. generic bottled water ~20 pence wholesale, sells for £1.50.

If proprietors would only have the imagination to make it interesting to drink non-alcoholic drinks, they would probably make more money from the non-salsa punters too!

[alemana]

'very limited?' typically you have at least 3 or 4 fruit juices, plus seltzer, bottled water, club soda, carbonated beverages, and now often coffee drinks (bottled) as well. sorry, that's not 'very limited.' don't know how things look outside the States, but here we always have a MILLION choices in every scenario. that's the (consumption-obsessed) American way.

i usually ask the barkeep to mix cranberry juice and seltzer or something - make the dude feel like he's making an actual drink - and am sure to tip him a buck over the cost of the drink.

[africana]

my thing is sports drinks. I don't take water to the club/social, but I will carry sports drinks because they are most effective for the state of my body when spending a lot of energy

as far as I'm concerned the managers should make money off the cover charge, and whatever else I see fit to purchase (like occassional water or cola). It's called capitalism, not charity

By the way why do a lot of DJs still maintain guestlists when there's no need?? I have lots of DJ friends who do this but decided a while ago not to take advantage of that anymore, $10 cover is not that much

[Ellis]

In the UK your choice is:
Frut Juices 125ml portions, usually orange, pinepple, grapefruit & tomato (intended for mixing with spirits). If you are lucky Orange and Cranberry juice may be available in 1/2 pint glasses for about the same price as a pint of beer.

Sugar + Fruit Juice Drinks like J2O (330ml for price of a pint of beer)
Coke/Pepsi +diet
Lemonade
Bottled Water
Cordial + tap water

NO Coffee drinks. No hot drinks, No free soda refills.

As I said Sugar and/or Caffeine or over priced water - little chance of being healthy and interesting!

[dancin/dj]

my thing is sports drinks. I don't take water to the club/social, but I will carry sports drinks because they are most effective for the state of my body when spending a lot of energy

as far as I'm concerned the managers should make money off the cover charge, and whatever else I see fit to purchase (like occassional water or cola). It's called capitalism, not charity

By the way why do a lot of DJs still maintain guestlists when there's no need?? I have lots of DJ friends who do this but decided a while ago not to take advantage of that anymore, $10 cover is not that much can i get on the quest list? nah just joking,i've never understood the quest list thing-once in a while i get a comp, but i really don"t look for it clubs and people who put on dances have to meet there bills it not cool in my opinion and we should pay,and sagitta paying for water stinks i agree ,but for me i drink wine.

[Pacion]

There have allegedly been places that closed in 2005 due to low bar takings. Whilst I agree it *stinks* to buy water, especially when it is like 200% markup, and that is if the promotor buys it in the supermarket instead of a cash & carry (!), what *stinks* more? Paying for water/drinks and having somewhere to dance or, not paying for water/drinks and not having somewhere to dance? :?

If I think, what I would consider an "informal venue" eg a community hall wants to charge "5 star venue" prices, then I protest and don't buy or don't go. If I think the prices are reasonable compared to what I might pay at a street market/carnival then I buy. You think salsa venues charge a lot for water/drinks? Try airports! :mad:

[DeeplyDippy]

and am sure to tip him a buck over the cost of the drink.
I was quite shocked to read you tip bartenders in the States. I've been over a few times and it has never occured to me to do this as we don't tip 'em here in the UK.

[Ellis]

I was quite shocked to read you tip bartenders in the States. I've been over a few times and it has never occured to me to do this as we don't tip 'em here in the UK.

In some states at least, bar tenders and waiters are taxed on a % of the takings as an assumed level of gratuities - whetehr they get that much or not!

[Rosa]

I was quite shocked to read you tip bartenders in the States. I've been over a few times and it has never occured to me to do this as we don't tip 'em here in the UK.

I live in the UK and it's never occurred to me to do that, either.

I did buy the regular barmen/barmaids in my local pub a drink over the Christmas holidays - that's accepted and usual - but doesn't happen at any other time of year.

Having said that, I always buy at least a bottle of water if I go to a Salsa venue (even those that provide free water.)

Rosa :)

[Ms_Sunlight]

Ellis, the soft drink choices in the UK are better than they used to be. At my favourite dancing venue (O'Neills on a Monday night here in Cardiff) the soft drinks are reasonably priced and varied, and they have cartons of fruit juice behind the bar so you're not limited to those diddy mixer bottles. I often have a pint glass of orange juice and lemonade. Besides at least most places have those bottles of J2O now and they're lovely.

[alemana]

bartenders and waitstaff make a terrible hourly wage in the states - less than minimum wage by a large margin, usually. they make the majority of their money from tips.

[dancin/dj]

I was quite shocked to read you tip bartenders in the States. I've been over a few times and it has never occured to me to do this as we don't tip 'em here in the UK. ahh they must pay better over there,here they have to get tipped due to verrrrrrrrrrry low wages,i've always thought that the guy who made this system up over here is a real(ass) and laughed all the way to the bank, i almost aways tip,but i don"t like the system,it created in my opinon a sort of scam-u get bad service if your a regular if you dont tip, they may taint your food, your tipping sometimes people who are really bad at there job,20 percent is now the norm,some places force it in the bill, i could go on and on, dont mind tipping for good service,but again its some sort of scam,why not just pay them well in the first place. with the water thing, i rather pay say 11.00 dollars instead of 10.00 to get in but dont mark up the water as you said pacion 200 percent ,ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, there are some really fantastic waiters and waiters out there i have no beef with them.

[africana]

speaking of musicians, something happened last week that made me remember this thread :lol:
i was trying to park my car when I got to a salsa club and as I was backing up I almost hit a musician (the top band leader in this area was behind my car) :oops: :lol: and I thought "girl you supposed to be keeping salsa alive not killing em" hehe :rolleyes:

[HothouseSalsero]

speaking of musicians, something happened last week that made me remember this thread :lol:
i was trying to park my car when I got to a salsa club and as I was backing up I almost hit a musician (the top band leader in this area was behind my car) :oops: :lol: and I thought "girl you supposed to be keeping salsa alive not killing em" hehe :rolleyes:

LMAO

[DeeplyDippy]

I thought "girl you supposed to be keeping salsa alive not killing em" hehe :rolleyes:

Would it have been alright if they'd only been the 2nd or 3rd ranked band in the area:raisebro:

[alemana]

africana can run you over on 1 *and* on 2.

[DeeplyDippy]

... with the bodies under the tyres thumping out a clave beat:)

[africana]

:doh: :doh: :lol:

speaking of music appreciation, it's so much fun just watching the individual muscians, while doing their solos or communicating with each other!! I had such a blast acting like groupie lastnight, standing near the stage and trying to do shines to match each instrument (and entertain them, they like that :D )
i forgot how great that feels

[Lucretia]

Last night I had a conversation with my favorite club owner & DJ.
I asked him why they didn't sell sandwiches at the bar. If you want to dance from 21.00 - 03.00 you cannot manage with only water or wine. It is a maraton if you stay on the floor all the time. I need carbohydrates to manage to dance whole night.

(Beer makes me too tired. Juice makes my stomac sour and aching. Soft drinks as well. Wine the whole night makes me too drunk. I have to bring my own carbohydrates disguised to a sandwich or candy. Liquorice is great - salt and sweet at the same time)

He looked astonished at me - "why have I never thought about this?".
He even told me that the bartenders has asked him what we dancers needed since we don't give them enough profit. He told them to sell sports drinks but couldn't think of anything more.

By the way - sport drinks are great when dancing. If you take them just before you hit the wall. Not after. If you take them after you might feel even worse since the sugerlevel in the blod might decreases in the beginning (when insuline is pumped out to the system). I feel better after about 30 minutes.

/luc

[africana]

By the way - sport drinks are great when dancing. If you take them just before you hit the wall. Not after. If you take them after you might feel even worse since the sugerlevel in the blod might decreases in the beginning (when insuline is pumped out to the system). I feel better after about 30 minutes.

/luc Yes!!! i thought I was the only dancer who uses sports drinks, it makes much more sense than the other energy drinks, healthier and with less sugar, with faster hydration for those of us who sweat a lot
I usually take them to socials where they don't care what you bring if it's not alcohol, clubs are a bit more tricky