FTC Guidelines on Dance Studios

[pygmalion]

I copied this from http://www.ee.princeton.edu/~aria/FTC_dance.html

Has anyone experienced these sorts of sleazy tactics? I have. :?

Facts for Consumers from the Federal Trade Commission
Dance Studios -- November 1992
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Although dance lessons may offer opportunities for fun, entertainment, and companionship, they also may be more expensive than planned, especially if you do not know how to protect yourself against some dance studio sales practices. For example, beware of:

Signing long-term contracts and prepaying thousands of dollars for dance lessons or clubs that you may be unable to complete or cancel;

Signing additional contracts before the current one expires;

Making large prepayments to studios that may be unable to give refunds should they suddenly close or go bankrupt.
In an effort to make consumers aware of certain sales practices used by some dance studios, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) has prepared this brochure. It also suggests ways in which you can protect yourself.

Sales Techniques:

If you are thinking about or are already taking dance lessons, you should understand the sales techniques that some dance studios may use to persuade you to take lessons, or to take additional lessons.

Relay Salesmanship: Some studio instructors use the technique of relay salesmanship (consecutive sales talks by more than one representative in a single day) to try to persuade students to buy lessons or buy more lessons. This tactic may put you under heavy pressure to sign a contract, encouraging you to buy lessons you may later realize you do not want or cannot afford.

Overlapping Contracts: Some studio instructors try to convince their students during lesson time to sign additional contracts before completing the current lessons. In some instances, you may unwittingly be buying additional lessons that extend beyond your interest, your physical fitness, or even your life expectancy.

High-pressure Sales: Some studio instructors, using high-pressure sales tactics, exploit student emotions or personal vulnerabilities to oversell lessons. Sometimes, when students refuse to buy additional prepaid lessons, instructors will neglect them in classes, embarrass them in public, or transfer them to a less skilled instructor.

Precautions:

Awareness about the possible use of these sales techniques can help you avoid potential problems. In addition, you may avoid some potential problems if you comparison shop for dance lessons.

Finally, before signing or renewing a contract for dance lessons, consider taking the following measures.

Pay in advance for only a certain number of lessons to see if you like them. You may get a discount if you make a large prepayment on a long-term contract, but it will have little value if later you are unable to take the classes, you want to cancel them, or the studio closes before your lessons are completed. At this time, only a few states require studios to post bonds to protect consumers' prepayments.

Insist that the following items are clearly stated in writing:

any oral promises;
the cost per hour of private and group lessons;
your cancellation and refund rights; (These are important in case you change your mind about lessons, move, or become ill.)
any prepayment protections, if required by state law.
You can ask about these important items when you comparison shop.

Do not sign a contract immediately, especially if you have concerns about the stability of the studio or are asked to prepay a large amount of money for a lifetime membership, an exclusive club membership, or dance cruise offer. Take time to think about the matter and talk it over with a friend, a family member, or an attorney. Even if your contract offers you a refund or cancellation option, you may be unable to get your money back if the studio closes or its refund check bounces. Prepay only as much as you can afford to lose if the studio closes.

As an additional precaution, you might wish to contact your local or state consumer protection office to learn what rights you may have under local or state law with regard to maximum costs for contracts, cancellation and refund rights, studio bonding requirements, and a "cooling off" period, which may give you a few days to reconsider your decision after you sign your contract. Also, by contacting your local Better Business Bureau office, you may be able to learn if there are any current complaints registered against the dance studio you are considering.

Complaints:

If you have a problem with a dance studio and cannot resolve it, send a letter describing your complaint to your local or state consumer protection agency and your local Better Business Bureau. (Check your phone directory for addresses.) Also, send a copy of your letter to: Correspondence Branch, Federal Trade Commission, Washington, D.C. 20580. Although the FTC generally cannot intervene in individual disputes, the information you provide may indicate a pattern of possible law violations requiring action by the Commission.

[DanceMentor]

I think it is important not to just stand by and see people getting ripped off. While most studios are great and follow a reasonable code of ethics, it is important we don't let one bad apple ruin the bunch.

[jon]

Has anyone experienced these sorts of salsa tactics?

As in, the studio threatens to immerse you in condiments if you don't sign a contract?

These guidelines, and some legislation in Florida, at least, came about mostly because of elderly women being ripped off, mostly in chain studios. Vulnerable, lonely, and confused people are targets for scams of all sorts. Just Say No to contracts, and just refuse to deal with instructors who put pressure on you, no matter how charming/talented/handsome/etc. they are. Otherwise you're fresh meat for the scammers.

[pygmalion]

In my case, as in overlapping contracts. And I live in Florida.

[Adwiz]

Pretty scary stuff. I haven't heard of a single studio in Canada ever using long-term "contracts." Here we often have memberships: you buy an annual membership for $50-$75 which entitles you to half-price lesson repeats and discounts on everything from practice fees to clothing, but never long-term prepaid contracts. About the worst thing I've heard of is "registration fees" where you pay a small fee to ensure that room is reserved for you in an upcoming class. This happens at smaller studios. The fee is non-refundable if you cancel but you only lose maybe $20. Canadians can be pretty apathetic at times, but I doubt they'd ever stand for the kind of tactics described in the FTC document.

[tango]

Unfortunately it does happen in Canada, well Ontario anyway. One of the big franchise studio's, that I dance at, really pushes these long term contracts. You can choose to pay it over a period of time, in monthly installments, but they then limit you to one lesson per week plus one group, until the contract is paid off.

The two sales person approach and Relay Salesmanship is used extensively, plus once they feel you're ripe for another contract they sell you one right away. We were only 5 weeks into our first contract when they went for the second one. Mind you, I've done sales before so I saw most of this stuff for what it was, and I already had made up my mind before about how far I wanted to take dancing (i.e. 9 months from the time I started till my wedding, which just happens that the contract is about the right length of time).

These tactics have made me think twice about this studio, but they still are excellent instructors. Nobody's perfect and their service is excellent so I'll probably stick with them, but keep my guard up for the impending sales pitch!!!

[tango]

Also, part of their sales pitch is this: "because you are such a great dancer (cough, cough) if you sign up for this second package before then end of your first one, we can teach you Advanced Planning!!!" Basically, they do a little more freestyling and incorporate other dance steps (i.e. swing into rumba etc.) when they teach. They show you this in one lesson before the sales pitch.

For me I took about two weeks to decide and they avoided anything releated to advanced planning during that time. Since we've signed on for the bronze level programming, advanced planning seems to be a thing of the past. They will help us with it but they don't really initiate it in the lessons to often.

[pygmalion]

Bear in mind that I'm from Florida, the state whose bad behavior prompted the FTC to issue guidelines in the first place, but yes, I've seen these tactices used extensively. Relay salesmanship -- subtle, but there. One teacher casually mentions buying lessons, the next casually mentions buying lessons, and so on. The thing is, the studio staff has daily meetings to orchestrate every interaction with their clients, so NOTHING is really casual. High pressure sales -- I know people who dread being "conferenced" i.e. called into the sales office to be approached to buy more lessons. I really felt sorry for one woman who was unemployed, but whose "conference" went on for over half an hour, as she was pressured to buy lessons. Then the other instances -- a couple of gentlemen I can think of who were literally conferenced at every lesson as the end of their contracts approached. Think of that! Fifteen to twenty minutes after every lesson! I could go on, but I'll let others comment.

My bottom line belief, though, is that it's not the dance tachers who are primarily at fault, if there's blame to be assigned. It's the way the studio system is set up. Without that high pressure, it's unlikely the lower level teachers could make a decent living at all. So, in my mind, here's the question. If students are paying $80 to $120 an hour for dance lessons, why do teachers feel they have to resort to these techniques to make a living wage? There's something wrong with this picture. :evil: :x :cry:

[tango]

You exactly right. I don't blame the instructors, there is a corporation above them that sets the policies. For instance, instructors cannot socialize outside of the studio or plan events with the students. It's the only business that I've seen this in, but it's not the instructors, it's the corporation not wanting to lose its product, which is the instructor, or customer, me, through external factors. It's all about control!

I became aware of the daily meetings when things that I said to one instructor popped up with another. This is something that I'm not overly comfortable with, I feel there is some kind of playbook with my name on it and everything I've said is collectively shared with all the instructors so they can do a better sales pitch! But again it's a corporate sales system and it works, plus most people aren't suppose to know about it.

Even competitions are sales conventions for instructors. They're awarded prizes for top sales person, not ability. Which is fine, because they do have to make a living, but, I think some of this stuff could be handled better.

[pygmalion]

Yes, tango, when I first started dancing at the franchise studio, I took lessons four or five days a week, so I quietly observed, without complaining or passing judgement. So I got to see a lot of the underbelly of how things really work there. It looks like the assumption is that most students are will never see what's going on, or never rock the boat, as long as their emotional needs are being met. And unfortunately, that often seems to be the case.

[DanceMentor]

There is a study where people are asked by an authority figure to deliver shocks to the subjects (actors). In that study, a majority of the people continued to deliver shocks to the subjects (actors), even after the subjects pleaded with them to stop, and even feigned death...all because they were doing what they were told.

I do blame the instructors for carrying out a bogus sales pitch. To say they are just following orders only goes do far. By working for someone that encourages unethical behavior, you are not only helping them, you are also making a bad name for the dance business.

I know these are strong words, and I know the "wrongness" of the situation should be considered for each unique situation. Nevertheless, I disagree with someone engaging in unethical behavior because they ar "doing their job".

[pygmalion]

I don't know, DM. I see why you say what you do. People are responsible for their own actions. For example, my independent instructor (a VERY ethical guy :D ) left the franchise system for that very reason. Working at a franchise didn't jibe with his morality.

On the other hand, the franchise teachers I used to study with truly believe that their sales techniques are "just business" and that they're required to succeed in business.

Yes, teachers are responsible for their own ethics, but I can't lay the whole blame on them. Many of them are young and relatively new to the business and get duped into using the sales scripts and techniques. Also, at least at my old studio, the manager did the sales pitch. The teacher attended the conference, but the manager did all the sales pressure. Teachers didn't. I'm sure teachers figured out the game after a while, but teachers didn't actually apply the heavy pressure. Their boss did. On top of which, there are many, many guys in gray suits between the lowly dance teacher and the top of the franchise. Surely some of the responsibility lies there as well? :?

[tango]

I do blame the instructors for carrying out a bogus sales pitch. To say they are just following orders only goes do far. By working for someone that encourages unethical behavior, you are not only helping them, you are also making a bad name for the dance business.

I agree with this to a degree, I once worked for a pharmacy that was selling people prescription products (marketed as natural health products) without a prescription. Basically, people were getting real drugs without knowing it! In that case, I took the ethical high road and contact Health Canada, which resulted in me being terminated.

Now, as for an instructor who uses high pressure sales tactics is different, since almost every sales person uses them (sadly), not just dance studios. It's still not proper to take advantage of the weak with emotional hooks, but also the argument is always made that they can just say "no".

Dance is a luxury, so it's harder to sell than groceries, and unfortunately because of this, certain elements in the dance world will cross the line and use an unethical approach to increase sales. But who has ever heard of an unethical salesman. :wink:

[DanceMentor]

I was especially referring to more dastardly acts such as getting an old lady who just lost her husband to buy 200 lessons and then scheduling 2 lessons a day and putting 2 teachers on each lesson, and knowing that she is spending nearly all she has left and making her feel really bad for even thinking about not signing up. There have been hundreds of cases of of this happening to people. When this sort of thing is going on with multiple students in a high pressure situation, I have to also blame the teachers for participating in it.

Yes, dancing can be difficult to sell, but end does not always justify the means.

[pygmalion]

You know what? I'm rethinking this whole thing. That's the nice thing about DF. You get to exchange ideas and maybe change your mind.

I still think my old franchise teachers were nice people, most of them. But there were ethical ones and unethical ones. Two I would characterize as snakes in the grass, complete with emotional manipulation, withdrawal of "affection", and lots of other bad stuff. Three newbies who had very little, if any, clue of how the system worked. One truly ethical guy somehow caught in the system. He had bad sales numbers, but he refused to pressure anyone. And the manager, who clearly knew what was up, lied or concealed sometime, and applied much pressure to everyone, in the very nicest way. I guess of them all, half were to blame. The other half were either innocent, or broke, or both!

Still thinking ...

[tango]

Once you are aware of the sales system it's much easier to deal with. For example I have clearly stated that I don't want to discuss a new 'contract' until after my wedding. They have respected that since I indicated I enjoyed dance, and would probably go with another package, plus I might compete. This is good. The part I don't like is what happens if I were to say "once these lessons are finished I'm not going to renew". I suspect the great instructors we have now would have been moved to other clients and the less experienced instructor would take over. I don't feel that's the instructors decision, the management of the studio would be responsible for it.

[Sagitta]

Very useful information here.

Now when I move to where there is a franchise studio I will be prepared. Thanks all!! :)

Speaking of ethics... One thing that I hated about my graduate program in chemistry was the way my advisor wrote grants. It didn't really matter what you were doing, he simply looked at what the latest fad was and geared his entire proposal to get those grants!! I looked at the proposal for my project and I barely recognized it. Changing your research direction, or altering language to attain better success in getting grants is one thing, but it was carried way too far by my advisor IMHO!! Same for dance. You can promote/encourage people to take more classes, but there clearly is a point at which things have gone way too far!!

[pygmalion]

My response is way late, but amen to that, Sagitta! Check out this article from the USABDA press release page. A couple years old, but terrifying. Especially when you consider that the FTC guidelines have been around for a decade.

http://www.usabda.org/press_center/press_releases/latest_releases/1249/index.cfm

[dancin_feet]

I go to a franchised studio, and while I have seen the hard sell and seen many people fall into the trap, I so far haven't as yet.

I signed up for admittedly a rather long program, but after talking to other students that was the normal number of lessons to achieve what I wanted to achieve. I am now about halfway through those lessons, and way ahead of the average, so I am really quite pleased with the result. Will be able to get further on fewer lessons. Have never paid up front, not in a position to do so. I even signed up for some more groups last week (separate and different dances to my medal program) and knowing that I am pushing the limit financially, my instructor has allowed me to pay off the up front price over a couple of months (including the discount!).

I guess it depends on the studio and how you look at it. They are in it for the business at the end of the day. But if they know that they have a loyal student, they'll help you out any way they can. After all if they rip you off, they'll lose your business.

[pygmalion]

For some reason, I suspect the high percentage of retirees, the state of Florida is notorious for horrible behavior in that regard -- duping, bullying, you name it, unsuspecting students. A lot of studios behave in a scrupulously honest manner, but many don't.

[salsarhythms]

This is a very interesting topic.

I have not had personal experience with a dance studio that would
do this, but sales is sales...

And just like any profession, you will have both the good and the bad.

Each person must decide if they want to go that route.

I agree with DanceMentor in that I do place blame on the instructors.

If there's something that does not agree with you ethically, don't do it.

I mean any high-pressure situation causes tension to all parties,
including the salesperson. I know I will NEVER want to be in this
type of situation so I won't do it.

As far as taking advantage of people, it really is unbelievable...

You all know me here, and you know that I too make a living through
sales...and it's because of people and companies like these that I do
what I do...I think that I'm in the minority when I give to folks the
option of trying out all of my programs for 6 months, and anytime
within that timeframe, they can always ask for their money back...

Why do I do it?

Because I don't like "high-pressure" situations. So I did something
about it and put the risk on my being able to deliver...

These instructors can do the same as well. Put the risk on your shoulders
let the student know that if they don't like what they see you will
give them their money back out of your OWN pocket...Then let's see
if they won't over-deliver.

Will there be people that take advantage of the instructor? I'm sure
but the rewards will surpass any unscrupolous clients...

Just my 2-cents... :D

[LindyQuest]

For some reason, I suspect the high percentage of retirees, the state of Florida is notorious for horrible behavior in that regard -- duping, bullying, you name it, unsuspecting students. A lot of studios behave in a scrupulously honest manner, but many don't.

I've seen the same thing here, as there are many retirees in Arizona as well. Several years ago I shelled out close to $1,000 for ten lessons...looking back I can't believe I did that, but they really did a great job of convincing me to buy the lessons, then they had me take the lessons in ten consecutive days, so I used them all up within two weeks. The instruction was good, no question about that, but I can't say it was worth $1,000. But maybe that's the common price for lessons? I haven't signed up with a franchise since then, so I really don't have a basis for comparison.

Anyhow, when I didn't renew my contract, there was a lot of pressure (frequent phone calls, weekly newsletters, etc.)

Most of the people who took these lessons were retired, most of them very old, and I'm sure that many of them were using their life savings or whatnot.

At any rate, I'm glad that I've discovered there are many less-pricey alternatives to learning how to dance!

[Pacion]

There were a couple of studios (Dancesport, not salsa) where I felt that if I didn't sign on the dotted line there and THEN, I wouldn't walk out with my knees intact :oops:

As a personal "policy", if ever I feel that someone is trying to give me such a hardsell (including clothes/shoe shopping assistants), I will say as sweetly as possible "Thanks, but I need to think about it some more" and walk out. There have been times when I fell for the "hardsell" in my youth :lol: and was kicking myself afterwards :oops: So, a time came when I said, "enough was enough" and ever since then, I walk if I feel uncomfortable :(

[LindyQuest]

As a personal "policy", if ever I feel that someone is trying to give me such a hardsell (including clothes/shoe shopping assistants), I will say as sweetly as possible "Thanks, but I need to think about it some more" and walk out. There have been times when I fell for the "hardsell" in my youth :lol: and was kicking myself afterwards :oops: So, a time came when I said, "enough was enough" and ever since then, I walk if I feel uncomfortable :(

That reminds me of all the times people have tried to sell me timeshares! I've gotten very good at just saying "NO!" and walking on... :D

[Hank]

I hate to take the side of the franchise dance studios, but I don't think that overlapping contracts and "advance planning" are all that bad. I started at a franchise studio, and bought an initial package of 10 lessons. After taking only two of the lessons, they offered me a much larger package of lessons (at a substantial discount) and explained that they teach people on the bigger packages differently.

For someone who is serious about dancing and is going to be around for a long time, they spend a lot of time teaching dance fundamentals, such as connection, frame, and posture, which take years to learn.

But, if a student is only going to take 10 lessons and then quit (which a lot of people do) they need to focus on teaching that student to be comfortable doing a few basic patterns in a couple dances. Spending those 10 lessons drilling on posture and frame would do that student a great disservice.

The studio needs to know the student's intentions, so they can tailor the material in order to give the student good value. This made sense to me then, and it still makes sense today. I bought the big package and took lessons at that franchise studio for 4 years. I eventually moved to an independent teacher, but I don't regret my experience at the franchise studio, and I thought all their sales tactics were either harmless or, to the extent they weren't harmless, completely transparent.

[Spitfire]

I've never heard of it, but are there studios where instructors get a commision on any lessons that they sell?

[pygmalion]

As far as I know, most franchise studios operate on a combination of salary and sales commissions. IMO, that's why the predatory sales techniques sometimes pop up. People are trying to make a living.

[DancingMommy]

I've never heard of it, but are there studios where instructors get a commision on any lessons that they sell?

That's the standard operationg procedure for *most* studios - not just franchises. That's because most teachers who are not independent are paid an hourlay rate for the time they teach *only* and not for the hours they are actually on site.

IOW if you cancel a lesson on your teacher, they don't get paid. :( been there done that.

[pygmalion]

Found this by mistake -- the Florida Dance Studio Act, which requires that dance studios that require an up-front payment of $250 or more demonstrate ability to provide student refunds. Hmm. I wonder how that impacts the operation of independent studios, if at all.

http://www.doacs.state.fl.us/onestop/cs/dance.html

[DancingMommy]

High pressure sales -- I know people who dread being "conferenced" i.e. called into the sales office to be approached to buy more lessons.

We called it going into "The Room". :twisted: But we joked about it and my students knew it was going to be pretty painless. Of course, it helped the they like me and I liked them and they wanted to learn and I wanted to teach. :-)

Our studio policy was "take it or leave it" and the boss would actually tell students that. :shock: They were not really hard core hard core, but he (The Boss) would try to get the more "viable" (read expendable income) students to sign up after their initial contract wore off. But then again, we offered for $85/unit: 1 private/week, 2 group classes/week & 2 practice parties/week.

Since I left the studio, I found out that my students have mostly gone on with their dancing and one of "my guys" actually landed a wife with his dancing skills!

Sign me:

Nina <--- Bringing people together one dance at a time!

[pygmalion]

Sounds like a nice studio and nice people. It's not always that pleasant at some studios out there. :?

[bjp22tango]

Our studio policy was "take it or leave it" and the boss would actually tell students that. :shock: They were not really hard core hard core, but he (The Boss) would try to get the more "viable" (read expendable income) students to sign up after their initial contract wore off. But then again, we offered for $85/unit: 1 private/week, 2 group classes/week & 2 practice parties/week.

Since I left the studio, I found out that my students have mostly gone on with their dancing and one of "my guys" actually landed a wife with his dancing skills!

Sign me:

Nina <--- Bringing people together one dance at a time!

That sounds very reasonable, depending on how far out in advance you would have to pay.

When I first looked into learning to dance in Maryland, I answered an ad for a dance partner in the paper. The gentleman turned out to dance at a franchise studio. He and his teacher wanted me to sign up for a $1000 package. I didn't even know if I wanted to partner dance yet and they wanted $1000 :shock: This just blew my mind. To me it would be like learning to ski and before we hit the bunny slopes the instructor wants your credit card. :lol:

Anyway, I declined politely, and found a friendly independent studio where I could get reasonably priced private lessons, group private lessons, regular group lessons, and weekly dance parties. It was the best decision I ever made.

[DancingMommy]

They didn't get people for more than 20? maybe 30 lessons at a time max. And they had a monthly payment plan of $250? Whatever 4 times the $85/unit is.

I know they had a nice discount of one bought 10 or more units. Maybe 20% off? But you certainly didn't have to pay a HUGE deposit. More like One month down for security and one month in advance. Basically the first 2 months up front and then your monthly fee on the first lesson of the month (on your anniversary date). If you couldn't get that kind of cash up front, they would work with you (to a point).

Here there is a law that if you take more than $200 at a time, you are required to have a contract with a cancellation policy and a bond of $15,000 or so. If you take *less* than that you are exempt.

For instance:

Studio A will sign a student up for a "program" and take a $205 deposit - they are required to have the above.

Studio B tell student they can buy a "class pass" for X number of classses discounted to $199 but they can't purchase more than that at any one time. They are exempt.

I had plans to open a studio (still do but maybe down the line)... Maybe if my coach retires completely I can buy *his* studio........

My plan was to offer a "class pass" for private lessons, group lessons, etc.

The class pass would include: 4 privates, groups & parties in a bundle.The starting price per unit would be $65 but would be discounted to $49 each if they bought the bundle, thereby bypassing the regulation requiring a bond, etc.

[pygmalion]

That's what I was wondering -- if that law had any effect on how studios operate. I guess the answer is yes. 8)

[DancingMommy]

It certainly does. :-) Or should.... Some studios just thumb their noses at the law and file bankruptcy willy nilly....

If the law is implemented properly by a studio, they can inded run as either franchise style or indie style and still make all the money they want. Just not *all at once*.

[pygmalion]

If the law is implemented properly by a studio, they can inded run as either franchise style or indie style and still make all the money they want. Just not *all at once*. :lol: :lol:

[pygmalion]

I had plans to open a studio (still do but maybe down the line)... Maybe if my coach retires completely I can buy *his* studio........

My plan was to offer a "class pass" for private lessons, group lessons, etc.

The class pass would include: 4 privates, groups & parties in a bundle.The starting price per unit would be $65 but would be discounted to $49 each if they bought the bundle, thereby bypassing the regulation requiring a bond, etc.

Sounds like a great career option for a home-working Mom. (I absolutely refuse to use terms like stay-at-home Mom. Makes it sound like you're not doing anything. :x ) When your kids are a little older, you could ship them off to school and have a nice chunk of potential teaching time in the middle of the day. Cool. 8)

[Chris Stratton]

Who is going to take lessons in the middle of the day? And if talking about pro-am, I would guess the student demographic available during the day is heavily female, and seeking a male teacher?

[pygmalion]

One of my former studios had quite a few people who took mid-day lessons. Let me see... mostly small business owners, some male, some female. But then there were a few homemakers, a couple people who worked nights (a nurse and a DJ, that I remember offhand) some people who telecommuted, so could arrange their own hours, three real estate agents, a few retirees.

It could work for DM. She might have to set evening hours, too. But she also has a start-up dance business, if I'm not mistaken. So, between the two ventures, I'm sure something could be worked out. 8)

[pygmalion]

It would be interesting to see if daytime group lessons could work, too, DM. I haven't seen them anywhere, but I know of quite a few people who've wanted them because they couldn't make night classes, for whatever reason (family or work obligations.)


And oh yeah. If you're in a central location, lunch hour lessons could be popular, even with people who work the traditional eight to five. Between eleven and two could be good for a studio, as well, if you find the right target market. 8) Maybe pitch it as a singles event? :eyebrow:

[DancingMommy]

Well, the only teaching I'll be doing in the middle of the day is my kids, lol! Long story that probably deserves it's own thread. But I *do* think that the day-time lessons could work in a place like Atlanta where you have a highly centralized "downtown/office worker area(s)".

[Chris Stratton]

I tried lunchtime practices on occasion, and paid dearly for it:

I'd always take my keys out of my pocket when dancing, and put them in my dance bag. Afterwards I'd go back to the office, and stay a bit later than everyone else to compensate. Usually just before leaving for the night I'd make a quick trip to the restroom, and find on my return that I'd locked my keys, coat, and everything else in the office.

[pygmalion]

Ugh! Homeschooling? My sister is home schooling her high-school aged ADHD son. It's not easy. But, from what I hear, there are a lot of supports in place that didn't exist a few years ago. You know -- workshops, science classes, field trips, etc. A lot of people are doing it. 8)

Good luck. 8)

[Laura]

Who is going to take lessons in the middle of the day?

Back when I was working, I did, both Pro/Am lessons and Amateur coachings. I worked 10 minutes from the dance studio, and so did two different amateur partners that I've had in the past. It was great because the teacher(s) were available and the studio wasn't crowded at that time of day. We'd also practice in the middle of the day. I really liked it because work was very stressful and getting out to dance for an hour or so really helped a lot. I'd come back to work with a fresh mind.

[pygmalion]

Yep. I took midday lessons during my luch hour for a couple years. Worked fine for me, since I was a five-minute drive away. 8)

[DancingMommy]

Yup. I'm one of the test cases that helped to write the HS laws here in FLA. It's nice to know I was a fore-runner for *something*. :-) I think I turned out ok, lol!

What's funny is that so many people have trashed Home Education in front of me never *realizing* that I was home educated for five years.

I even had a situation where someone was telling me that I was so intelligent, well-read, etc etc and then in the next sentence badmouthed *all* homeschoolers as being illiterate compound dwelling nutjobs. :twisted: Can anyone guess what happened next????

No I didn't come down like a ton of bricks. I didn't have to... MUAHAHAHAHAH I just gave my most angelic smile and said OH so sweetly... "I gained SOoooooo much form my home schooling experience...." That was both a Kodak moment and a MasterCard (priceless) moment all rolled into one.

[pygmalion]

Hehe! :twisted:

It's not easy for the person (usually Mom) who does it, though. :? Good luck, DM.

btw, Orlando Science Center and Sea World have some good programs for home schoolers. I saw a couple others around town, that I can't remember. I'll PM you if I remember. 8)

[DancingMommy]

Coolio! 8)

[sunderi]

It would be interesting to see if daytime group lessons could work, too, DM. I haven't seen them anywhere, but I know of quite a few people who've wanted them because they couldn't make night classes, for whatever reason (family or work obligations.)

Our studio has a couple of daytime group classes. They're offered right when the studio opens, at 1:00. Some people come over their lunch break from work. The rest of the group is typically retirees and people who don't work (we live in a very affluent area, and there are a lot of people who are entirely supported by their spouse and who have hired someone to do the housework, child care, etc.). The classes are smaller than the evening classes, but still well attended.

[pygmalion]

It's a shame more studios don't do that. :?

[mr bixx]

*i only read the first page*

guys my attention level has drastically change and reading 4 pages would kill me. i did read through this stuff and i want everyone to back away and see it from teh other side.
i work for a franchised studio. i want to address some points that i read on this site. so far this site is so anti franchise its funny. anyway, about the daily meeting business. every company has a daily meeting whether you know it or not. to us instructors its a time to go through and see what are books(schedules) are looking like. were not back there talking badly about you guys are figuring it how we can milk are students for more money. also this si a time we get training on certain things.
nextly, the whole deal on new contracts. if you sign a program that is for 8 lessons and your getting a 39 percent discount and it takes you 4 lessons to get through the material. why would you not save money, roll those lessons over to the next level, and keep progressing with your dancing. that makes the most sense rather use 4 lesson to keep polishing.
also i want you to think of one more thing. when you go to a resturant you order and then the server goes and gets what you want. remmeber you walked in the door wanting something. we arent out to sell you something you didnt want. whether you like our prices our not your choosing this. i've read alot of stuff on here that kinda pisses me off. i need to make a living just like all of you do. i will agree that i dont believe in long term contracts or life time memberships. those are rediciouls. our franchise has a limit on how much you cna purchase at a time. or how much you can enroll on lessons.

[standardgirl]

It would be interesting to see if daytime group lessons could work, too, DM. I haven't seen them anywhere, but I know of quite a few people who've wanted them because they couldn't make night classes, for whatever reason (family or work obligations.)


One of the Pro/Am instructor here actually offers a morning lesson from 9:30am to noon every Mondays. I have not been to one of those lesson because I have college, but I would really like to go and see what the age range is like.

[pygmalion]

*i only read the first page*

guys my attention level has drastically change and reading 4 pages would kill me. i did read through this stuff and i want everyone to back away and see it from teh other side.
i work for a franchised studio.

I can relate, mr bixx. A lot of these threads get so long that I read only the latest post myself, these days. :oops: :lol:

And this site is not anti-franchise, that I can see. However, a lot of people, myself included, have had some negative experiences at franchise dance studios. I have also had some very positive experiences with my franchise teachers. It's almost always a mix, in my mind. 8) I hope that, in the evolution of these threads, that message comes across.

Franchise studios have been around in the US since good old Arthur Murray started back in 1912, and that's for a reason. Because they address and serve a need. 8)

[pygmalion]

Went back and read pages one and two. I can see why you're offended, mr bixx, although a few posts here did address the other side (page 2 :wink: :lol: )

There are several other franchise studio threads, mr bixx, really long ones, where the issue is duscussed in depth and both sides do get addressed. If it weren't 4:30 in the morning, I'd dig one or two up for you. I'll add that to my DF do list when the sun comes up.

I guess the other thing that begs to be said here is that franchises are franchises. They're independently operated. What happens at one franchise studio may not happen at another. So what I call slimy sales techniques (which I personally have experienced) may never happen at your studio. Both perspectives are valid. 8)

[pygmalion]

Okay. Here's an older thread where the opinions run the gamut. It's a long one (eight pages) so don't attempt this maneuver at home without your reading glasses. :lol: :lol:

But, if I remember correctly, we have people from all over the spectrum in that thread. That works for me. 8)

http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=482