DWTS II - Week 5

[alemana]

We don't have Master P to pick on anymore. Who's next?

[Purr]

We don't have Master P to pick on anymore. Who's next?

George Hamilton?

[Medira]

Probably.

I think he's going to have some major issues with viennese, if he makes it that far. (When will they be doing VW anyway? Anybody know? What are this week's dances? ...Samba is one, probably. What am I missing?)

[Purr]

Probably.

I think he's going to have some major issues with viennese, if he makes it that far. (When will they be doing VW anyway? Anybody know? What are this week's dances? ...Samba is one, probably. What am I missing?)

I thought they announced samba and salsa, but I'm not sure about that because salsa isn't technically one of the International Latin dances. I could have been hearing things. It wouldn't be the first time.

[Medira]

I thought they announced samba and salsa, but I'm not sure about that because salsa isn't technically one of the International Latin dances. I could have been hearing things. It wouldn't be the first time.
Hm... I wonder who would be dancing what, and I wonder how Len would handle having to judge a non-syllabus (International or American) dance. :tongue: ...it also makes me wonder if they'll get into the American style dances like bolero and mambo.

*curious*

[Ralph]

Jerry Rice and George Hamilton will have to leave before any of the others. But I have a feeling that Jerry Rice also will stay in the competition for too long.

[alemana]

i could see why salsa would be a good choice, viewership wise, but as a salsera and a ballroom dancer, the idea makes me cringe.

bolero, however... that would be great.

[musicchica86]

I'll agree with alemana on this one--I'd kill to see some really excellent bolero. And since there's more celebrities this season, we're going to have to see some more dances than we did last season!

[Angelo]

i could see why salsa would be a good choice, viewership wise, but as a salsera and a ballroom dancer, the idea makes me cringe.
.

Oh it probably wouldn't be so bad. Alec Mazo did pretty well with it last time around. The potential music selection is what worries me.

[mamboqueen]

Oh it probably wouldn't be so bad. Alec Mazo did pretty well with it last time around. The potential music selection is what worries me.


Did pretty well with what?

[Angelo]

Did pretty well with what?
Salsa. You should remember since you were drooling over his *ahem* posterior region

[Medira]

Salsa. You should remember since you were drooling over his *ahem* posterior region
I believe you're thinking about the samba, Angelo. There wasn't any salsa last season.

[mamboqueen]

Salsa. You should remember since you were drooling over his *ahem* posterior region


Well apparently I wasn't looking at his feet! :raisebro:

[SDsalsaguy]

All of the teams will be dancing samba this week, with salsa being done as a "group" dance (like VW was in season 1). Personally I'm scared to see what some of these "salsa" dances will look like... :?

[musicchica86]

Well apparently I wasn't looking at his feet! :raisebro:
*cough* and 7 sleeps until I get to drool over ALL of him!!!!!!:raisebro: :D

[Purr]

All of the teams will be dancing samba this week, with salsa being done as a "group" dance (like VW was in season 1). Personally I'm scared to see what some of these "salsa" dances will look like... :?

I suspect it will look a lot like American rhythm mambo. We've got a rhythm champion as one of the pro's.

[pygmalion]

All of the teams will be dancing samba this week, with salsa being done as a "group" dance (like VW was in season 1). Personally I'm scared to see what some of these "salsa" dances will look like... :?

Yeah. I have a feeling it might get ugly. :?

[Purr]

Yeah. I have a feeling it might get ugly. :?

How? Ugly as in couples running into each other and ending up on the floor? Or just plain ugly dancing?

[alemana]

eh, mambo is not that particular rhythm champion's strong suite.

[SDsalsaguy]

How? Ugly as in couples running into each other and ending up on the floor? Or just plain ugly dancing?
Well, not ugly dancing, but ugly "salsa" -- but, with the music that's sure to be used, who knows if it will even sound like salsa either!

[Angelo]

I believe you're thinking about the samba, Angelo. There wasn't any salsa last season.
No I am not thinking of the samba. It was in the 30 point championship winning freestyle routine of Alec and Kelley's. Very distinct salsa/mambo segment

[mamboqueen]

Funny; I wish I had this on tape. I remember a lot of "hustlin" going on.

[Angelo]

Funny; I wish I had this on tape. I remember a lot of "hustlin" going on.


It was while they were on the stage if I recall correctly

[pygmalion]

I could've sworn somebody in DF had a website with clips from last season. Or have I lost my mind? (A distinct possibility :oops: )

[mamboqueen]

Raphael! Thanks, Jenn!

I should have his url in my sig line....or maybe we shoud put it as a sticky. Such a great reference.

[Angelo]

All of the teams will be dancing samba this week, with salsa being done as a "group" dance (like VW was in season 1). Personally I'm scared to see what some of these "salsa" dances will look like... :?


It would be interesting if they put a rueda in there, though I tend to doubt they will

[mamboqueen]

Never seen a rueda. Anyone have a clip?

[alemana]

if they *did*, i'm glad i missed it. the only person i want to see "salbo" (salsa? mambo? whatevs) less than stacy elfwoman wrestler is Kelly Monaco.

[mamboqueen]

I like "mamsa" myself :)

[SDsalsaguy]

if they *did*, i'm glad i missed it. the only person i want to see "salbo" (salsa? mambo? whatevs) less than stacy elfwoman wrestler is Kelly Monaco.
Just thank your lucky stars that P was out before this! ;)

[Angelo]

if they *did*, i'm glad i missed it. the only person i want to see "salbo" (salsa? mambo? whatevs) less than stacy elfwoman wrestler is Kelly Monaco.



MEEE-OWWW!

[pygmalion]

*giggle* I can't hold it in anymore. This is so deliciously mean! I love it. :lol:

[Purr]

Well, not ugly dancing, but ugly "salsa" -- but, with the music that's sure to be used, who knows if it will even sound like salsa either!

I see what you mean. It might end up sounding like salsa on geritol.

[Medira]

mmm...I remember the mambo bit. I hadn't considered it salsa, but alright. I also remember being extremely less than impressed with it too. :tongue:

[Medira]

I see what you mean. It might end up sounding like salsa on geritol.
Urk. This should be.... *special*

Hm. Re-watching that freestyle routine, I really, really don't like it....and man, that drop at the end still makes me cringe.

[arianiah]

Actually i don't think the salsa will be that bad. It is the easiest dance for people to learn. At least on my team (90% haven't ever danced before) this is the case. And where salsa is easy samba is most difficult, so i think the salsa will feel like a breather for the celebs after learning all of the movement involved in samba. Alot of ab work and booty shakin' there.

[pygmalion]

I wonder if there's any DWTS talk on any of the salsa boards out there. It should be interesting so see what, if anything, social salsa dancers have to say about "ballroom" salsa. :mrgreen:

[alemana]

you don't need to go to another board for that :)

[Medira]

you don't need to go to another board for that :)
She's got a good point there... :tongue:

[pygmalion]

I was just being facetious, anyway. :cool: I'm sure we'll get an earful ... or two. :lol:

[musicchica86]

Urk. This should be.... *special*

Hm. Re-watching that freestyle routine, I really, really don't like it....and man, that drop at the end still makes me cringe.
Oh, but you don't watch that clip for Kelly!;) I've got a few ideas about it, especially since I've been watching Alec's clips obsessively over the past few days to try and figure out what I want to work on in my lesson with him.:D The song ("Let's Get Loud") is actually a cha-cha, but the freestyle itself is a Latin medley, thus the 5-10 seconds of salsa/mambo in the beginning at the top of the stairs. The rest of the routine is much more like a cha-cha.

That said, the end drop makes me cringe every time too.:shock: Which is why I block out all hint of Kelly while watching it LOL. The other thing that makes me cringe is the lead-in to the helicopter-style lift. Alec's just sitting there like "Where is she? Come on!" Kelly's timing was way off, not to mention the fact that she didn't have half enough momentum to get all the way up. Truth be told, none of the aerials are very good on her part.

[SDsalsaguy]

It should be interesting so see what, if anything, social salsa dancers have to say about "ballroom" salsa. :mrgreen:That was exactly my point. Will the pros be able to do the steps? Sure. Have most of them done some salsa before? Sure. But how likely are they to make it look like salsa and not like a ballroom person dancing salsa steps? That's what remains to be seen...

[pygmalion]

That was exactly my point. Will the pros be able to do the steps? Sure. Have most of them done some salsa before? Sure. But how likely are they to make it look like salsa and not like a ballroom person dancing salsa steps? That's what remains to be seen...

Yep. The week 5 thread will have its share of controversy, I'm guessing. But then, why should it be different than any previous week? :twisted: :lol:

[alemana]

in my experience with ballroom dancers, unless they were social salsa dancers first, their salsa will always look ballroomie. no judgment was included in that post, btw. i'm "just sayin.' "

[Medira]

The other thing that makes me cringe is the lead-in to the helicopter-style lift. Alec's just sitting there like "Where is she? Come on!" Kelly's timing was way off, not to mention the fact that she didn't have half enough momentum to get all the way up. Truth be told, none of the aerials are very good on her part.
Not to mention the sight of her heel gouging his calf as she tries to jump up there... *wince*

How many more sleeps?

[pygmalion]

in my experience with ballroom dancers, unless they were social salsa dancers first, their salsa will always look ballroomie. no judgment was included in that post, btw. i'm "just sayin.' "

Heard and understood. I still think it'll make for some interesting conversation. Kinda looking forward to it, to be honest. :)

[SDsalsaguy]

Heard and understood. I still think it'll make for some interesting conversation. Kinda looking forward to it, to be honest. :) Has anyone ever told you that you're an evil, evil woman Jenn? :wink: :lol:

[pygmalion]

As a matter of fact, yeah. :lol: I'm evil in a good way, though. :wink:

[Angelo]

If that international salsa champion couple that performed on friday is being presented by the network as what salsa "should" look like, the ballroom pros won't do any disservice to the dance no matter if it looks "ballroomie" or not.

[Medira]

If that international salsa champion couple that performed on friday is being presented by the network as what salsa "should" look like, the ballroom pros won't do any disservice to the dance no matter if it looks "ballroomie" or not.
Ugh. I wasn't impressed by that performance at all. Actually, I haven't really been impressed by any of the "non-ballroom" performances they've had on the results shows so far.

[alemana]

i agree with that, actually. i don't much care, as a salsera, what version makes it up there, but i enjoy haughtily differentiating between the various interpretations/styles.

there are plenty of "competition style" salsa dancers who would make a good showing on tv, and plenty who would not. of the competing rhythm professionals at the moment, Emmanuel and Joanna would've completely set the show on fire with their world-title winning mambo - whereas some of the higher-ranked rhythm couples, not so much.

[Ithink]

All of the teams will be dancing samba this week, with salsa being done as a "group" dance (like VW was in season 1). Personally I'm scared to see what some of these "salsa" dances will look like... :?

I am terrified! It promises to be pretty bad...

[mamboqueen]

Could be a trainwreck waiting to happen.

[Beto]

I wonder if there's any DWTS talk on any of the salsa boards out there. It should be interesting so see what, if anything, social salsa dancers have to say about "ballroom" salsa. :mrgreen:

Actually, there is. But not pages and pages like y'all have here (I confess I skipped reading beyond page 9 or 10 on the first 3 weeks as I taped DwtS and wasn't able to watch it the same night or until a day or two later and y'all had gone CRAZY. I mean, posting while the show IS on??? Whoa). SalserosWeb, SalsaForums, SalsaGang and SalsaDallas all have threads about the show. I'm sure others do too.:D

[Beto]

in my experience with ballroom dancers, unless they were social salsa dancers first, their salsa will always look ballroomie. no judgment was included in that post, btw. i'm "just sayin.' "

I saw that once here in Maryland. There was a Sunday Salsa Social going on and I saw a dance between a local salsera and the studio's [then] owner. Her street style and his ballroom-salsa style (fyi, he's on record as not respecting salsa at all) did not mesh at all but she tried to make the best of it. It was awkward to see, I'll say that much.;)

[alemana]

ah yes, one of the many burdens of being a follower :)

i've seen some great meshings here in new york, but the salsa scene is huge and influential here, a somewhat unique situation.

[Beto]

ah yes, one of the many burdens of being a follower :)

i've seen some great meshings here in new york, but the salsa scene is huge and influential here, a somewhat unique situation.

Considering you're in one of the top 2 cities for salsa dancing (if not Ground Zero) on this planet, that's not a surprise :D

[alemana]

correct.

[pygmalion]

i agree with that, actually. i don't much care, as a salsera, what version makes it up there, but i enjoy haughtily differentiating between the various interpretations/styles.


Oh my goodness! I love you, woman! :lol:

[Big10]

in my experience with ballroom dancers, unless they were social salsa dancers first, their salsa will always look ballroomie. no judgment was included in that post, btw. i'm "just sayin.' "
I agree with that. I can think of only a couple of exceptions, but for the most part there's a very distinct appearance for people who learned Salsa dancing from a ballroom studio.

[GJB]

I heard thru the grapevine that Emmanuel and Joanna were asked to perform on DWTS. Don't know when or what dance though. Stay tuned.

[alemana]

i was just coming here to post that as well.

[alemana]

apparently it will be the results show on friday. i swear i knew nothing of this when i speculated what a good idea it would be earlier in this thread.

[Big10]

i swear i knew nothing of this when i speculated what a good idea it would be earlier in this thread.
Care to "speculate" on any lottery numbers for us? :raisebro:

[alemana]

it's kind of a no-brainer, honestly. for *accessible* pizazz, nobody's doing it better right now.

[alemana]

my my, so many guests.

waving!

[Medira]

Hmm... Mambo performance. Barry Manilow. I'm sensing a Copacabana.

[Joe]

Her name was Lola...she was a showgirl...

eh, mambo is not that particular rhythm champion's strong suite.
Suit.

[GJB]

Hmm... Mambo performance. Barry Manilow. I'm sensing a Copacabana.

Bummer! I was hoping they'd do their showdance from Ohio I keep hearing about. Oh, well, hopefully we see it in part 2 of OSB next week.

[SDsalsaguy]

Bummer! I was hoping they'd do their showdance from Ohio I keep hearing about. Couldn't be, since that would have to be to their own music and not the @#$^&&! the DWTS band plays. Too bad though.

[pygmalion]

*giggle* How do you feel about the music, SD? :rolleyes: :lol:

[SDsalsaguy]

*giggle* How do you feel about the music, SD? :rolleyes: :lol: Believe me, you don't want to know.

Besides which, I feel obligated to set a good example and keep in mind our younger members...

&*!&*#%&*#()*&)*&#^!^&!!*^()*^#_*!!!!! "music" :mad: :mad:

[pygmalion]

ROTFL! :lol:

[salsera_alemana]

Now who are Emmuel and Joanna?

[alemana]

pro rhythm couple, only got together last year. they won the world mambo title at USDSC in september and made quite a splash with their swing showdance at OSB, which will be televised in the pbs broadcast.

[alemana]

supershag.com/gallery/ProRhythm/2nd_Emmanuel_Pierre_Antoine_Joanna_Zacharewicz

[GJB]

Couldn't be, since that would have to be to their own music and not the @#$^&&! the DWTS band plays. Too bad though.

Yes, I realized that. That's why I said "Bummer!"

[delamusica]

I agree with that. I can think of only a couple of exceptions, but for the most part there's a very distinct appearance for people who learned Salsa dancing from a ballroom studio.

*argh*

*seriously refraining from becoming argumentative . . . *

(btw - how do you put smileys in a post? still haven't figured that out . . .)

[Beto]

*argh*

*seriously refraining from becoming argumentative . . . *

(btw - how do you put smileys in a post? still haven't figured that out . . .)
Admirable restraint, I applaud you! ;)

I don't think Big10's comments were meant to stir things up and were just an observation that he had made about ballroom-trained salsa dancers versus salsa dancers who have learned in the clubs and at classes given at dance studios by club dancers.

[SDsalsaguy]

Admirable restraint, I applaud you! ;)

I don't think Big10's comments were meant to stir things up and were just an observation that he had made about ballroom-trained salsa dancers versus salsa dancers who have learned in the clubs and at classes given at dance studios by club dancers.
I agree. Also keep in mind that B10 was only agreeing with me... and I first learned my salsa in a ballrrom studio before making the swith. And believe me, there is one. I go back and forth between the two worlds regularly, and the dancing feels and works differently! I'm not saying that either is better dancing in any abstract sense, but they simply are not the same.

[pygmalion]

Agreed. They're two different animals. I don't think that any value judgment is implied, there; the styles are just different. *shrug*

[delamusica]

I was more irritated with the implication (that may or may not have been in that post, but definitely has come up in other threads) that people who learned to dance in a studio are UNABLE to dance club salsa well. Just not true.

And really, now, I'm going to stop.

[SDsalsaguy]

I was more irritated with the implication (that may or may not have been in that post, but definitely has come up in other threads) that people who learned to dance in a studio are UNABLE to dance club salsa well. Just not true.
I would take extreme issue with that position as well. What I would say is that a studio trained salsa dancer doesn't *yet* know club salsa any more than a club dancer *yet* knows ballroom cha cha. If either can accept that there is something more and different to be learned, are open to that, and willing to learn, than either could cross back and forth.

I remember that when I was up in Seattle a couple of summers back I was having coffeee with someone before hitting the salsa clubs and, when it came out that I had some ballroom background, I got a very frowny face. I assured her that my salsa was not "ballroomy" to which she merely responded, "we'll see." She was much happier after our first salsa dance of the night... :wink:

[pygmalion]

Yep. Understood, delamusica. I agree that a lot of folks go round in circles, trying to judge which style is better -- a kinda silly exercise, IMO. I just acknowledge that they're different.

But, to be fair, I also think that a lot of ballroom folks (of whom I'm one) underestimate non-ballroom, social dance styles, and assume that they can excel in dances they haven't really learned, and which have nuances and cultures that they might not understand.

It's a classic cultural conflict, IMO. *shrug*

(Incidentally, I deliberately broached the topic yesterday -- to get it out of the way early, before the show, and let people have their say before there was any skin in the game. Sneaky, aren't I? :wink: :twisted: )

[SDsalsaguy]

(Incidentally, I deliberately broached the topic yesterday -- to get it out of the way early, before the show, and let people have their say before there was any skin in the game. Sneaky, aren't I? :wink: :twisted: )
I told you you were evil! (And yes, in a good way! :wink: :lol:)

[delamusica]

What I would say is that a studio trained salsa dancer doesn't *yet* know club salsa any more than a club dancer *yet* knows ballroom cha cha. If either can accept that there is something more and different to be learned, are open to that, and willing to learn, than either could cross back and forth.

Exactly.

I remember that when I was up in Seattle a couple of summers back I was having coffeee with someone before hitting the salsa clubs and, when it came out that I had some ballroom background, I got a very frowny face. I assured her that my salsa was not "ballroomy" to which she merely responded, "we'll see." She was much happier after our first salsa dance of the night... :wink:

Hah. I always get it after the dance:
Where did you learn to dance? Ballroom studio. *leader gaping in disbelief*.

:-)

[delamusica]

Sneaky, aren't I? :wink: :twisted:

And that's why we love you. :-)

[pygmalion]

Hah. I always get it after the dance:
Where did you learn to dance? Ballroom studio. *leader gaping in disbelief*.


One of those left-handed compliments we love to hate. "You dance pretty good salsa, for a ballroom person." What the heck does that mean? :lol:

[Angelo]

Hah. I always get it after the dance:
Where did you learn to dance? Ballroom studio. *leader gaping in disbelief*.

:-)

I've gotten that one too:

Her: Where did you learn to dance?!
Me: lots of places ( I named a local salsa teacher, and a couple of local ballroom studios)
Her: I never would have figured you for a ballroom dancer!
Me: really?
Her: Yeah. You can always tell the ballroom dancers. They are always too stiff and stylized.

Me: Oh.


It's a strange experience to be complimented and insulted at the same time

[delamusica]

I've gotten that one too:

Her: Where did you learn to dance?!
Me: lots of places ( I named a local salsa teacher, and a couple of local ballroom studios)
Her: I never would have figured you for a ballroom dancer!
Me: really?
Her: Yeah. You can always tell the ballroom dancers. They are always too stiff and stylized.

Me: Oh.


You: Well, you didn't figure me, now did you?


It's a strange experience to be complimented and insulted at the same time

No kidding. Ah well. Still we crossovers shall continue to crash the salsa clubs - fight the good fight! :-)

[Medira]

I've had that happen to me too...

Him: "Where did you learn to dance?"
Me: "At <insert studio name here>"
Him: :shock:

*shrug* I learned from a latino who's been dancing salsa since he was in utero...what do they expect? :tongue:

[delamusica]

what do they expect? :tongue:

Stereotypical, bad, stiff ballroom dancing?

[alemana]

but learning salsa in a ballroom environment is not the same as "being a ballroom dancer."

-been there done that

[Medira]

but learning salsa in a ballroom environment is not the same as "being a ballroom dancer."

-been there done that
I agree with you completely. It just seems that a lot of people who have learned in the clubs don't seem to want to make the distinction.

[SDsalsaguy]

Stereotypical, bad, stiff ballroom dancing? Mind you, I've seen more than my fair share of that as well... some ballroom dancers are no better at respecting salsa, or even understanding that it's a different setting, as vice versa. One of my biggest pet peeves are ballroom trained folk who insist on doing ballroom arm styling on NYers in a salsa club! Get a clue people!!! :mad: :mad:

[delamusica]

Mind you, I've seen more than my fair share of that as well... some ballroom dancers are no better at respecting salsa, or even understanding that it's a different setting, as vice versa. One of my biggest pet peeves are ballroom trained folk who insist on doing ballroom arm styling on NYers in a salsa club! Get a clue people!!! :mad: :mad:

True. Although I admit, when dancing at the salsa with one of the few leads in my area who dances both club salsa and ballroom, I've been guilty of ballroom NYer arms . . .

. . . but only at the very end of the night when there's lots and lots of room. And only with a lead who's also doing them. And not 'cause it's good club salsa - just 'cause it's fun. :tongue:

[pygmalion]

Although I admit, when dancing at the salsa with one of the few leads in my area who dances both club salsa and ballroom, I've been guilty of ballroom NYer arms . . .

Eeek! Off with her head! ... :tongue: :lol:

[Big10]

*argh*

*seriously refraining from becoming argumentative . . . *
Thanks for refraining, and thanks to the others who defended me in the meantime. The new website format seems to prohibit quotes within quotes, but I'll just refer you back to my original post (on page 5 or 6, I think), which was intended to adopt the complete statement made by alemana, including the portion where she said she wasn't making a value judgment -- because I wasn't making a value judgment either.

It's just a fact that there is a difference between ballroom-style Salsa and club-style Salsa. You probably haven't read all of my posts over the past couple of years, but the philosophy that permeates my general view of dancing is that each person expresses the music in his or her own way, and no person's preference is better than another's in any objective sense. There are practical reasons why the leader and follower in any partnered, social dance must understand certain common elements, but, other than that, I wouldn't ever promote a view that a "good" dancer is supposed to prefer one style over another, just like I wouldn't say that a person with good taste is "supposed" to prefer chocolate over vanilla. I can accept the fact that some people enjoy themselves better when they dance Salsa in that yucky ballroom style (only kidding about the "yucky" part), just like I have a strong personal preference for the club style.

(btw - how do you put smileys in a post? still haven't figured that out . . .)
Me neither. :confused:


(Seriously, just put your cursor where you want the smilie, then left-click on the smilie itself.)

[alemana]

i think we're all just disclaiming in order to make our happy nonjudgemental views clear - not as a passive-aggressive rebuke to anyone else.

[delamusica]

Actually, I've read a good many of your posts over the last several years.

And you'll notice that I wasn't making a value judgement either - in fact, I'm not even sure which style I would pick if I had to choose.

I was annoyed with the pervasive attitude that a dancer can't possibly do both styles well. Not that one was better. If you've been reading most of my posts over the last several years, you'll note that I'm generally of the opinion that a good dancer should be able to adapt to different styles without much trouble, if they so choose. Never that one is better than another.

[pygmalion]

i think we're all just disclaiming in order to make our happy nonjudgemental views clear - not as a passive-aggressive rebuke to anyone else.

Unfortunately, I think, we're not all happy or nonjudgmental. :? I think delamusica has a point; there's a fair amount of looking down the nose from both sides. Not that it actually accomplishes much, but it's there. Oh well. *shrug*

[pygmalion]

it's kind of a no-brainer, honestly. for *accessible* pizazz, nobody's doing it better right now.

Accessible pizazz?

[Big10]

I'm generally of the opinion that a good dancer should be able to adapt to different styles without much trouble, if they so choose.
The "without much trouble" part is the key. After a person has learned from a ballroom instructor that certain movements are "right," and rehearsed to the point of becoming second nature, then it takes more work to undo that, rather than if the person were learning Salsa from scratch. So, what I've seen on the dance floor (and apparently other posters on this thread have seen), is that the initial training tends to remain and manifest itself for a long time. (The same would be true of a "club" dancer making the switch to ballroom, of course.) I can definitely make the dance work when I'm partnered with a woman who started in ballroom, but the point is that it's rare for the ballroom aspects of her dancing to completely disappear.


**Why is there all this talk about Salsa on this thread anyway? Does anybody know for sure that the DWTS celebrities will compete using Salsa? I could be wrong, but I thought any Salsa-related stuff was just going to be on the results show.**

[pygmalion]

Anything on DWTS is fair game. As you've probably noticed, we kinda beat the topic to death. :lol:

And I think you have a point about "not much trouble" in making a transition between dance styles.
I've had a few ballroom lady teachers who had a background in ballet. Each of them had quite an advantage in some areas of dance -- spins and hand/arm styling come right to mind. But they also, to hear them tell it, had some ingrained ballet-related habits that were very difficult to overcome, when they made the switch to ballroom.

:cool:

[SDsalsaguy]

**Why is there all this talk about Salsa on this thread anyway? Does anybody know for sure that the DWTS celebrities will compete using Salsa? I could be wrong, but I thought any Salsa-related stuff was just going to be on the results show.**
That's what I'd originally thought too, but it turns out that it will be used as the group number (like last season's VW) this week; hence this line of discussion in this thread.

[alemana]

Accessible pizazz?


sometimes the things that we insiders find impressive aren't visible to nondancers. i know this couple's work and they won't have that problem. plenty of great technique PLUS whizbang factor.

[pygmalion]

sometimes the things that we insiders find impressive aren't visible to nondancers. i know this couple's work and they won't have that problem. plenty of great technique PLUS whizbang factor.

Ah. Got ya. :)

[Bradamant]

Here's a question for y'all,
I see from glancing through the (always bewilderingly bizarre) ABC messageboard, that Lisa's popularity is soaring. People are calling for her to be in the final 2 if not win outright.
I'm of the opinion, leaving Drew and Stacy out of it, that Tia's dancing is and has been much cleaner in many ways than Lisa's ever has. I recognize that Louis is showcasing Lisa very well, and I don't deny she has improved since the first show . . .but, yikes, Lisa's dancing bothers me. Pretty much everything about it. Really bothers me.
Poeple on the ABC board are even saying "I want her to win because she is the underdog just like Kelly was."
Am I alone among dancers in thinking the quality of her movement is sorely lacking? If I'm not alone in that, why do you suppose there has been this sudden surge in her popularity among the non-dancing public? Is it because she has danced the exciting jive and paso while Tia and Stacy have been doing tango and fox, which don't grab the public in the same way?
I'm really starting to wonder if I have some unknown bias against Lisa that is clouding my judgement. But I just don't like her dancing. At all. And why do I care? I don't know. . . :-)
(PS, my boss, who is the best boss on the face of the earth, gave me, the little DWTS addict, ticket/transportation/lodging to see the results show on the 10th. Woohoo, I'm going to Hollywood for the first time. --I don't give a lick about hollywood but I am ridiculoulsy looking forward to seeing the show.)

[swan]

Lisa definitely resembles the Kelly underdog all right. She's stiff & not a natural dancer. Her movement is rather awkward. But she looks good in costume & she could pull off the acting part of the dance. That I think she might do a better job than Stacy.

Stacy has a lot of abilities, but lacks the expression.

Tia is similar to Lisa that she acts very well, but Tia's got certain fluidity in her body & movement in general, not necessarily more flexible than Lisa. It's clear that Lisa does yoga & she is flexible, but she's stiff when she danced. Basically Tia looks more natural.

Drew is a whole different story. This guy has talent & can dance & can act out the dance! He does have awkward posure. He's definitely the Joey of Season 2 but w/ more finesse & ability.

[swan]

(PS, my boss, who is the best boss on the face of the earth, gave me, the little DWTS addict, ticket/transportation/lodging to see the results show on the 10th.
Wow! I want a boss like that! Does he/she dance as well?

[Bradamant]

Wow! I want a boss like that! Does he/she dance as well?

Due to my unrelenting talk about dancing, he threw a private dance lesson party for his wife's birthday taught by my coach. My boss doesn't dance and probably will never really dance, but he has talked about doing the lesson party idea thing again. I think he was surprised at what a "not horrible, even kind of fun" experience it was. I keep trying to entice the unsuspecting world into dancing . . . my evil plans mwhahahaha :raisebro:

[alemana]

good work!

about lisa - i think what she has accomplished is partially due to the expertise of louis, who, as many ppl have said, showcases her well. he cannot control, at a granular level, her basic body motion, however, which is why that's the part of her dancing that is poor.

[mamboqueen]

A little herky jerky with the body. I think that's where bypassing the basics in favor of having an "eye popping" routine comes into play.

[Bradamant]

I pulled the following from an article on the net (sorry if it is all old news):

Barry Manilow Performs on Dancing With the Stars Results Show Friday 1/31/06

POP ICON BARRY MANILOW PERFORMS ON ABC'S "DANCING WITH THE STARS" RESULTS SHOW, FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 3

He "writes the songs that make the whole world sing..." and we're bringing him to you live from the "Dancing with the Stars" stage. He's none other than pop icon Barry Manilow. Don't miss a beat on the "Dancing with the Stars" results show, FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 3 (8:00-9:00 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.

International superstar and singer/songwriter Barry Manilow performs three songs, including his hit "Copacabana," as professional dancers Louis van Amstel and Cheryl Burke dance the Samba. He'll also serenade us with his rendition of the classic "Unchained Melody," from his latest album, "The Greatest Songs of the Fifties." To end the evening, he will accompany the eliminated couple, singing "They Dance" as they take the floor for their final dance.

In addition, two world Mambo champions, Emmanuel Pierre-Antoine and Joanna Zacharewicz, will be dancing to the "Ran Kan Kan."

[pygmalion]

Barry Manilow?!? Now I know DWTS has hit the big time. :wink: :)

[Angelo]

In addition, two world Mambo champions, Emmanuel Pierre-Antoine and Joanna Zacharewicz, will be dancing to the "Ran Kan Kan."


I hope the band will do justice to this song (Actually, I hope they give the band a smoke break and let them dance to recordeed music, but I won't hold my breath for that.)

[mamboqueen]

I hope the band will do justice to this song (Actually, I hope they give the band a smoke break and let them dance to recordeed music, but I won't hold my breath for that.)


Well, there's gotta be a *little* hope for this song; some good horns, perhaps??!! If only they could have Antonio Banderas and Armand Assante on stage....*sigh*

[alemana]

ok, there's a chance this will not suck.

[mamboqueen]

Can't wait to see Emanuelle....wow..and it'll be 2 nights he's on tv this week, right? What a great week for ballroom (hopefully I'll actually remember that the OSB is on tonight....).

[alemana]

(it's Emmanuel. "Emanuelle" is the feminine version.)

[twnkltoz]

Is anyone besides me thinking that the samba to Copacabana is going to be less than fantastic? I just like my samba music a bit more dynamic than that.

What woul you all like to see on the results show? I'd like to see a top west coast swing couple perform.

[Swingolder]

What woul you all like to see on the results show? I'd like to see a top west coast swing couple perform.

YES!!!!!!!!!

[SDsalsaguy]

YES!!!!!!!!! Yes, a WCS would be great... although keep in mind that my experience with the band is that, the one time they were asked to play a WCS (during a commercial of the 2hour 1st show), they played a CW2! :shock:

[twnkltoz]

Bleh. Will they play NO recorded music??

[Beto]

Bleh. Will they play NO recorded music??

Unfortunately, I think that's the case. :mad:

I would *LOVE* to see a WCS free-style (no choreography) to US3's "Cantaloop (Flip Fantasia)" or Queen's "Another One Bites the Dust" on the results show but I think it won't happen.

I saw a West Coast Swinger dance to both of those songs in Palm Springs at Jay Byam's NYE event in Dec 02/Jan 03 and he was great!

[alemana]

that US3 song is one of the most danceable tracks i can think of... would be great.

[Bradamant]

I heard a rumor (maybe it was here, but I've been reading around the worldwideweb and can't always keep things straight) that not only is the salsa this week going to be a group salsa, but that there will be changing of partners involved. Do you think they will be doing a rueda? Anybody know or hazard a guess? That would be awesome.:p

[Beto]

Unfortunately, I think that's the case. :mad:

I would *LOVE* to see a WCS free-style (no choreography) to US3's "Cantaloop (Flip Fantasia)" or Queen's "Another One Bites the Dust" on the results show but I think it won't happen.

I saw a West Coast Swinger dance to both of those songs in Palm Springs at Jay Byam's NYE event in Dec 02/Jan 03 and he was great!

Incidentally, I'm 99.9% sure that this is the dancer I saw dancing to those songs (I have video clips of him that I need to locate and post). Think his name's Luis (Garcia?), a WCS instructor from SoCal. There's a clip of him with another dancer on this page.

http://www.archive.org/details/westcoastswingluisandtara

[mamboqueen]

I can't see anything.

[chandra]

Yes, a WCS would be great... although keep in mind that my experience with the band is that, the one time they were asked to play a WCS (during a commercial of the 2hour 1st show), they played a CW2! :shock:

A WCS to good music would be awesome! jordan and tat up there could rip it up! They could get awesome kids too, that would be pretty cool, some of the redlands kids, lacy schwimmer is awesome...

BTW, I was at swingdiego a little bit ago, and the mc announced that a judge from "so you think you can dance" was there watching, and they were thinking of putting swing on the show next year.

[Beto]

I can't see anything.

On the left hand side there's a small link that says Download. Otherwise, right click and save on this link:

http://www.archive.org/download/westcoastswingluisandtara/westcoastswingluisandtara.AVI

It's about 38MB so it shouldn't take too long to d/l.

[SDsalsaguy]

BTW, I was at swingdiego a little bit ago, and the mc announced that a judge from "so you think you can dance" was there watching, and they were thinking of putting swing on the show next year.
Probably Mary Murphy, as she lives and owns a ballroom studio in San Diego.

[gemini]

What are the dances for tonight's program?

[alemana]

samba

[Medira]

..and a group salsa.

[justdance]

Hi, everyone...looking forward to the show tonight. Just out of curiosity, I checked out some of the postings on the show's website and WOW!!!! what a battlefield! I'm still reeling...!
Isn't it great to have such a brilliant, friendly place like this to come where we all share our love of dancing? Enjoy...

[pygmalion]

Hi, everyone...looking forward to the show tonight. Just out of curiosity, I checked out some of the postings on the show's website and WOW!!!! what a battlefield! I'm still reeling...!
Isn't it great to have such a brilliant, friendly place like this to come where we all share our love of dancing? Enjoy...

Yeah. We try to keep the atmosphere here as pleasant as possible. It's not always easy, but it does make for a better experience for more of the people, more of the time, I think. :wink: :)

[Big10]

friendly place like this to come where we all share our love
:shock: :shock: :shock:



:lol: Seriously, though, yes it is a lot better than most other Internet forums....

[Merrylegs]

Be my eyes tonight.

I'm going to miss the show because I have a dance lesson. When you guys are posting on this thread please be really specific with names. Often when I read the posts there are so many pronouns that I can't figure out who you're talking about.

Be sure to talk about costumes, please!

[alemana]

any other marching orders?! would you like a pizza delivered as well? :)

[alemana]

actually i won't be online either. bleh.

[Merrylegs]

any other marching orders?! would you like a pizza delivered as well? :)

How about some Italian food and a bottle of wine?

Seriously, I'm bummed I'm going to miss it!! Oddly, I've never been able to catch the Friday results show and this week I will.

Weird.

[alemana]

me too! if i'm watching from home i'll boot up for sure.

[Beto]

me too! if i'm watching from home i'll boot up for sure.

*shakes head in disbelief*

Wait, you all actually post on here AS the show is airing live? You mean you don't wait till the show's over to post on here? Speaking for myself, I'd be too distracted if I were sitting here at the PC while trying to watch the show. It's easier for me to give my full attention to the show and then post on here after it's over.

[alemana]

hello, that's why god created commercials, for me to tune out and post frantically.

[mamboqueen]

I have actually become adept at typing *while* viewing the tv screen...although I admit I had to re-do a whole post once because my fingers were off by one key.

[mamboqueen]

Be my eyes tonight.

I'm going to miss the show because I have a dance lesson. When you guys are posting on this thread please be really specific with names. Often when I read the posts there are so many pronouns that I can't figure out who you're talking about.

Be sure to talk about costumes, please!

good thing alemana isn't around...it would be "that skanky ho with the slutty dress"!

[pygmalion]

That's not descriptive enough for you? :mrgreen:

[gusmahler]

*shakes head in disbelief*

Wait, you all actually post on here AS the show is airing live? You mean you don't wait till the show's over to post on here? Speaking for myself, I'd be too distracted if I were sitting here at the PC while trying to watch the show. It's easier for me to give my full attention to the show and then post on here after it's over.

What's even worse are the people like me, west coasters who monitor this thread, then still watch the show when it comes on.

[RhumbaWaltz]

East Coast Roll Call!

[Larinda McRaven]

Here we go!

[musicchica86]

I'm here!

[mamboqueen]

:p hola

[musicchica86]

Okay, when I grow up, I want to look like Edyta...in other news, not so sure orange is Tony's color LOL. Not too crazy about Max's shirt either...

[mamboqueen]

maybe he decided fruit salad this week ...

[Larinda McRaven]

that is some spiky hair on Tony!

[mamboqueen]

stacey's up first...samba

[mamboqueen]

let's start with something easy....samba rolls

[musicchica86]

YES!!!! Put the hat on Tony.....

ROTFLMAO....

[mamboqueen]

awesome costume on her

[Larinda McRaven]

GO CHICKY! She can really shake it. Once again the music blows. It is a goood thing that the stars don't really know any better.

[mamboqueen]

ehhh.....not doing a lot for me.

[Larinda McRaven]

ehhh.....not doing a lot for me.

It is becasue the music doesn't grab you.

[musicchica86]

"It tickles!"

OMG I'm dying over here...

[mamboqueen]

wasn't that beyonce's song they just butchered....

[mamboqueen]

uh oh....stacey might be goin' pro.

[mamboqueen]

uhhh...where does bruno get these lines...weapon of mass seduction.....

[Larinda McRaven]

There is rouge on Brunos cheeks tonight...

[Larinda McRaven]

10-10-10

[mamboqueen]

oh lordy...all 10's. didn't think it was 30-worthy.

[mamboqueen]

the other girls must be freakin...

[musicchica86]

It was entertaining. I'll give them that. Where's fascination when you need her? LOL that performance'll probably make her night...

[pygmalion]

Stacey Kiebler (sp?) Michelle. Orange, mostly bare, fringe-bottomed outfit. :cool:

[GJB]

Definitely not a 30. Then again, I'm spoiled taking lesson with Yulia!

[mamboqueen]

george is up.

[gusmahler]

Stacey Kiebler (sp?)

Stacy Keibler

[mamboqueen]

omg....he must stay....getting his moves at the zoo....

[musicchica86]

Edyta's precious.

[mamboqueen]

she's doing all the work here.....this is painful....

[GJB]

I think George is done this time.

[Larinda McRaven]

I've seen pro-am look like that before... woah.

[pygmalion]

omg....he must stay....getting his moves at the zoo....

George Hamilton.

[mamboqueen]

:raisebro: rah rah...cartwheel to a split

[Larinda McRaven]

He is charming but quite simply unable to samba.

[cornutt]

He is charming but quite simply unable to samba.

That's about what my samba looks like... :shock:

[mamboqueen]

if he gets more than 5's or 6's, i'm taking my toys and going home.

[pygmalion]

He is charming but quite simply unable to samba.

Agreed. I could've sworn I saw some beginner salsa in there. Ugh. Well. He said it himself. Somehow he'll get through it. *shrug*

[Larinda McRaven]

That's about what my samba looks like... :shock:

I saw you shake your butt the other day... I am sure your samba looks considerably better.

[GJB]

I didn't see the charm in this one. Past weeks yes. But not this time.

[mamboqueen]

well, they didn't look like they were dancing with each other....i think edyta might be this week's ashley.

[mamboqueen]

come on you other guys .... give us your two cents...

[mamboqueen]

YOU MUST BE KIDDING ME

where's my freakin' toys/////

[Larinda McRaven]

:shock: 8's?

[mamboqueen]

well, now everyone else has to get 9's or 10's.

[GJB]

3-8s. The judges are on drugs! Halucinogens.

[musicchica86]

No, it wasn't great, but at least he's entertaining, which is something we definitely couldn't say about P.

I repeat, Edyta is precious. Can I grow up to be her? LOL

[cornutt]

I saw you shake your butt the other day... I am sure your samba looks considerably better.

Thank you dear, but I have to admit samba isn't my strong suit. On the other hand, I can do a mean samba line dance. ;) Now to apply one to the other...

[mamboqueen]

lisa rinna up....

[cornutt]

3-8s. The judges are on drugs! Halucinogens.

They are generous tonight. 24 has been established as the low-water mark for the evening. This is why real comps use ordinal scoring.

[musicchica86]

Team Rinna? LOL!

I must say, I appreciate how much harder Louis's working this season to stay on the show.

[cornutt]

Le Freak as a samba?!?

[mamboqueen]

doin' nothing for me.....

[Larinda McRaven]

well, that was good. Lots of quick footwork and she kept up consistently. Her neck looks a little short though.

[GJB]

That stunk !

[musicchica86]

Bad music choice again, but as far as the dance went, Lisa's samba wasn't bad for a beginner. I know MY samba doesn't look like that...

But the music ruined the mood.

[mamboqueen]

i agree with carrie about the disco feel of it....but certainly not lisa's fault.

[Larinda McRaven]

She is personally a little too "squeaky" for me.

[pygmalion]

Le Freak as a samba?!?

Ugh. And, to beat a dead horse, the band was hideous! :evil: If they were dead, the members of Chic would be spinning in their graves. (as it is, they're probably glad for the royalties. :lol: )

[mamboqueen]

well, they're going to have to score her better than george, but that was definitely not a 9-worthy routine, imo.

[musicchica86]

At least it didn't look like Lisa collagened the lips again...

Pffthahahaha, Max and Anna going at it in salsa rehearsal...

[Larinda McRaven]

yeah, the judges did not leave much wiggle room in their scores this week.

[samb2agirl]

Tight Hamstrings, Poor posture, Iffy timing, lousey song

[pygmalion]

She is personally a little too "squeaky" for me.

There was something off-balance about her, I thought. Another few weeks of practice, and I think she could do a quite nice samba. She wasn't ready yet, IMO, but she would've been soon.

Lisa Rinna. Electric blue fringed outfit, Michelle. :cool:

[mamboqueen]

yeah, the judges did not leave much wiggle room in their scores this week.


well, if anyone can find 'wiggle room,' it'll be lisa :raisebro:

[randomMysh]

Hey everyone! Almost didn't make it in time to see the beginning, whew!

I thought Lisa was really stiff. She's the Kelly of this season.

[Larinda McRaven]

She is personally a little too "squeaky" for me.


There was something off-balance about her, I thought. Another few weeks of practice, and I think she could do a quite nice samba. She wasn't ready yet, IMO, but she would've been soon.

Electric blue fringed outfit, Michelle. :cool:
I was referring to her vocal outburst... :)

[cornutt]

Must be intern night in the control room. Some college student is fumbling through the Grass Valley manual...

[mamboqueen]

;) hey rm

[musicchica86]

Now see, I think she's better than Kelly--but not by much. And Louis's working his butt off to make her look better than she is, and is doing a pretty good job of it.

[Big10]

So far, Stacy was awesome.

George was entertaining....but in no way did he deserve 8's for the way he danced.

Lisa was surprisingly good.

And what was up with Bruno's "kamikaze" remark to Carrie Ann??? :?

[Larinda McRaven]

what???? 7-9-9

[mamboqueen]

lisa; 7, 9, 9

ugh...

[Larinda McRaven]

You go Louis! You talk right over Carrie Anns head!

[randomMysh]

I think Carrie Ann was happy Len was sitting between her and Bruno. :)

Yay for Lisa mentioning the disco song!

[musicchica86]

Here we go MQ!

[mamboqueen]

oh boy...drrool, drool......

[pygmalion]

She shushed him? Who does she think she is? A star or something? :lol:

[mamboqueen]

omg .... i want that broom

[pygmalion]

lisa; 7, 9, 9

ugh...

Yeah. Baffling.

[musicchica86]

I'm waiting on the comment from MQ about the broom...

[randomMysh]

LOL...my BF just said he wants Max's hair. :lol:

[musicchica86]

Gmta!!!!!

[mamboqueen]

egads.....she's gonna lose some of that dress....

another disco song....ack

[Larinda McRaven]

that skirt is making me nervous

[randomMysh]

Double lol! "sexy housekeeping"??

Her skirt is scaring me. It looks like it's trying to eat her.

[Larinda McRaven]

ok skirt is gone, that is better

[Larinda McRaven]

humpf.

[musicchica86]

Tia looks great. But what's up with the disco music tonight????

[ACtenDance]

I like this better than Lisa Samba. Much better PP CPP runs

[mamboqueen]

she was a little slow...

him.,..well, yeooow ....

[randomMysh]

A fast hustle...sounds perfect for a samba! Ugh.

What's with all the girls dancing on bent legs the whole time? Even Stacey! :?

[Larinda McRaven]

Len just complained it was too disco... but what do they expect with this freakin music?

[mamboqueen]

oh boy.,..she's gonna score lower than lisa.

[musicchica86]

I think I might actually vote for her this week. Otherwise, she might end up going home instead of George...

[mamboqueen]

A fast hustle...sounds perfect for a samba! Ugh.

What's with all the girls dancing on bent legs the whole time? Even Stacey! :?


well, i'm told you should be heavily into the knees in samba. in fact, a judge mentioned i didn't have enough bend at my last comp....

[samb2agirl]

Sorry Tia!!!

[pygmalion]

she was a little slow...

him.,..well, yeooow ....

The music was slow. But you're right, she (Tia Carrere, Michelle sp? ) didn't have enough precise movements to make it look like samba, IMO.

[mamboqueen]

she seemed behind him quite a bit of the time, in the side-by-side stuff... but who was looking at her//

[pygmalion]

Len just complained it was too disco... but what do they expect with this freakin music?

Yeah. There are plenty of hit sambas out there within the past several years. This disco stuff's gotta go. :evil:

[cornutt]

It dragged. Samba is the very last dance you want to be behind the beat on. I saw a couple of heel leads. Charlotte points out that she doesn't have good muscle isolation, and that she's leading with her legs. I think Tia is happier with standard.