Learning to trust

[Peaches]

I've got issues.

(That doesn't really narrow it down any, and my boss has been calling me "Trouble" for 2 years now, but as it pertains to dancing...)

A year after starting lessons, which have been very sporadic for various reasons, I feel like things are starting to click. Like, following, for instance. I know it's basic, but it's been a hard road to learn not to anticipate. (If I had a nickel for every time I've heard my teacher ask something along the lines of, "That was a really nice lead, now let's try it with you following!" or, "Where are you going? I'm not moving anywhere. Calm down, wait for me." I wouldn't wonder how to pay for lessons!) So are some other things, like letting all of my weight go back into my hip in a cha cha rock step. Anyway.

Lately I've started working on quickstep. I like that it really really forces me to pay attention to my teacher to catch the changes between slows and quicks. I generally prefer (at the moment) smooth dances in general. Yes, I know quickstep is a standard dance, but you know what I mean. But one thing that's really, REALLY bothering me is what seems like the higher degree of trust that's required for the frame.

To get back to my original statement, I have trust issues. And control issues (see: problems with following). Putting the two of them together, as relevant to the closed hold, it becomes very difficult for me to lean my weight back into my teacher's right hand. Or to seek to maintain that contact. However you want to describe it/think about it. I know I'm not going to fall--that was step one in demonstrating that I would be OK, but I can't get over the feeling of suddenly freefalling backwards. Even though I know I'm not going to fall over, and even though I know that my teacher isn't going to drop me on my butt, I'm just having such a hard time dealing with it.

I mean, I trust him. I do. I think. I mean, he's never ever given me any reason not to trust him. And he knows how hard that kind of trust is for me, so I'm pretty sure he's extra careful about it, but... It's just that I don't like to trust anyone that much. Nobody. Maybe the best way to put it is that I trust him intellectually, logically, but my gut is just rebelling all the way on this one.

Has anyone else ever felt this way? How did you deal with it? Any words of advice?

[cornutt]

as relevant to the closed hold, it becomes very difficult for me to lean my weight back into my teacher's right hand. Or to seek to maintain that contact. However you want to describe it/think about it. I know I'm not going to fall--that was step one in demonstrating that I would be OK, but I can't get over the feeling of suddenly freefalling backwards.

Er, are you saying that you have your weight so far back that your partner is having to hold you up? If so, that's too far. Your weight should be over your own foot (maybe back on the heel; Larinda are you there?). You should be able to stand in the correct posture by yourself.

Yes, you want to stay in your partner's hand, but you don't do that by leaning your weight into it. Not being much of a follower, I'm not sure if I can describe this right, but let me try: You maintain pressure in your partner's hand by pressing back with your entire upper half, from hips up to head.

[Laura]

I always thought that the lady made contact with the man's right arm by stretching her upper torso upward, forward, and leftward. Then, her collarbones and tops of the shoulders roll and drape away from this upward stretch, and the head continues that curved line that is mostly leftward and just enough backward that the head goes over her left foot. This puts just the weight of the head and the uppermost part of the back (all above the bra line) in the man's arm -- when done right (and I'm no expert), there is absolutely no leaning back at all on the lady's part.

Try asking your teacher about this, and get him to put you in the right position on your own -- not in hold with him. Try to dance some of your patterns on your own, and feel where your balance goes. Try to feel the forward stretch of your body, and notice how that keeps you over your feet so you won't fall backwards. If you can get comfortable with this, then when you get back in hold you'll have a better sense of what you are doing, and that might help you figure out how you fit together with your teacher.

[latingal]

I haven't been doing standard very long myself, but I have to agree with cornutt, all the instruction I have received has indicated that if my partner were to step away (and I'm a follower), I should be able to hold the position I am in by myself. This is punctuated quite a bit to me by my teachers taking me through some steps, stopping mid-movement and then stepping away slowly to see if I am on balance (I don't have trust issues, but balancing on the other hand...).

Therefore when setting up into closed dance position I don't feel like I'm freefalling backward into his hand, I feel like I am very deliberately placing myself into his right hand while supporting 98% of the weight of that position myself (with the muscles in my abs, sides and upper back).

If you are moving and are freefalling backwards, again I've been taught never to be off my own feet that much.

If you're NOT freefalling, but only FEEL like you're freefalling - or are afraid that you will not be able to control your backwards movement so that you WILL freefall, that is a different matter! Is this what you're asking about?

[RIdancer82]

I could be way off on this, but.... what I have learned is that when you come into dance position you start standing slightly apart from your partner and then send your center toward your partner to connect. (your spine moves across evenly sending your body foward instead of just a portion.) At this point, your weight should be in the balls of your feet to your toes.

The "backward lean" is not really a lean at all, nor is it backward. It is simply an illusion of that, created through an upward stretch and some shaping comming from the leader (but that part is much more advanced and I don't completely understand it yet).

Hope this helps...

[Shooshoo]

I think you should be trusting your instructor and also your own body on how it carries itself. I don't know much about smooth dancing positions so I have nothing to add there.
The only trust issues I have in dancing (latin ballroom and salsa) is dips, drops and lifts (..and of course personal space). I only do it with a couple of dancers who I have been dancing with for a while and I trust their ability, strength and judgement (and definately the instructor is/should be one of them).

[fascination]

I've got issues.

(That doesn't really narrow it down any, and my boss has been calling me "Trouble" for 2 years now, but as it pertains to dancing...)

A year after starting lessons, which have been very sporadic for various reasons, I feel like things are starting to click. Like, following, for instance. I know it's basic, but it's been a hard road to learn not to anticipate. (If I had a nickel for every time I've heard my teacher ask something along the lines of, "That was a really nice lead, now let's try it with you following!" or, "
Has anyone else ever felt this way? How did you deal with it? Any words of advice?

okay...two dance points and then a personal note...I think this will be easier for you if you remember two things:..part of the way that you get that leaning back look is not from leaning back, but rather from bringing your chest forward...that is part of what gives you that nice arched look...and not only that but that is how you stay feeling balanced as well as keeping your knees relaxed at bit....which leads to my next point which is...up to a partner or away from him, your balance is your own responsibility so it shouldn't matter whether you trust him or not...if he lets go you shouldn't fall b/c you should still be centered over your own foot...I practice my routines alone to work on this.....

regarding trust...I dont know many souls who dont have trust or control issues to some degree or another...we decide to give them up not, not b/c of whther the other person is worthy or not, but for our own good...and those of us who are more self reliant I think do better to consider it that way... I can dance standard in contact not b/c I trust him but b/c I trust myself to stand up straight over my own foot with my chest proudly forward....and I wait for the lead not b/c I trust him but so that I can guarantee my own good dancing....and if I do decide to trust him, I do it b/c to do otherwise is not in my own best interest.......having siad all of that...I can tell you that I have gone through some of this and it is SO WONDERFUL when trust begins to happen more of the time b/c you realize how much better you can get...I am excited for you...this is a good opportunity

[Katarzyna]

becomes very difficult for me to lean my weight back into my teacher's right hand. Or to seek to maintain that contact. However you want to describe it/think about it. I know I'm not going to fall--that was step one in demonstrating that I would be OK, but I can't get over the feeling of suddenly freefalling backwards.If I were you, I wouldn't be leaning into his hand either... You are supposed to follow, but at any given moment you are supposed to be on your own balance. Leaning back is never a good idea in standard.. Your instincts are correct...

[Peaches]

First I want to thank people for their responses.

I guess I didn't explain things clearly enough. I guess I shouldn't have said "leaning my weight back." At all times I'm supporting myself--my weight is back over my foot, but I'm completely holding myself up. (My sore abs the next day confirm this!) My teacher has helped me get into the correct position (with me cringing the entire time) and then stepped away, to show me and prove to me that I wasn't going to fall over. He has emphasized stretching up/left with the ribcage, rolling my lats/shoulder onto his hand, and keeping my head left. I'm not actually falling--it's just I'm scared to death of it.

That's kind of the funny thing about this. I know I'm OK. That's been shown to me. I've never actually fallen--not even close. When something (miraculous!) happens and I manage to get the right position on my own, I generally feel OK. But then this irrational fear of falling kicks in and my posture goes to...well, you know where. At this point I think my teacher has tried explaining things so many different ways and whatnot, and this fear is still there. So, I feel like I'm at a loss for what to do now.

For the record, this isn't just a smooth/standard kind of issue for me. When I took Argentine tango lessons my AT teacher got on me for the same kinds of things. Only that was learning to relax into him--forward--and trust him. It's not that I feel like something bad is going to happen, necessarily. Or that if things start to go south then I won't be able to recover. But I'm just terrified of falling--and in giving up that control to the lead, I feel like I'm not in a position to help myself. Does that make more sense?

I don't know how to describe it. I know it's completely irrational. But it just scares me so much...

[Standard Dancer]

You said you've been dancing for about a year and that your lessons during this time were "sporadic" ... if this is the case, then perhaps you just need more (lesson, dance) time to get more comfortable with following and trusting your instructor. Everyone starts at a different place in dancing -- some are better at movement, others at connection, others at shaping or frame -- so perhaps you just need more time to work on the "trust" portion of your dancing. The more exposure you get to the ballroom, the walls, your instructor, the floor, your shoes, and how you feel on the floor, as well as with other couples on the floor, hopefully the better you will start feeling about trusting your coach. We're typically scared of things that are unknown to us, so perhaps you've worked up the "falling scenario" so much in your mind that now you are more afraid of it than necessary.

Not sure if you've tried this -- but sometime when you get a chance, perhaps you can just walk around the ballroom when it's not too busy, examing the floor, space, and just the general surroundings. Run your foot back and forth across the floor so that you're familiar with its grip. Do a couple steps by yourself that require balance so that you're familiar with how much you have to push off your standing foot to get over the swinging leg, etc. Take notice of how "springy" your floor is. If you're feeling brave, maybe just go in front of a mirror and watch yourself as you create that "backward" shape and look at how balanced you appear. Do a couple steps and try to maintain that balance. Hopefully once you're more comfortable with your own balance, more familiar with the floor, and more used to doing your steps, this will alleviate some of the anxiety you feel when you're dancing with your instructor.

[RIdancer82]

could this possibly boil down to a control issue? are you the type who likes to be in control? if so, it's tough to give up that control and allow the leader to, well, actually lead.

If that's the case, try thinking about it this way.... we as followers actually have more control than the leader in regards to certain aspects. While the guy initiates the movement, we are the ones who actually control the execution of the movement based on how we naturally react or how we choose to react. In a way, that's much more control than the leader has.

sorry if that's not the issue, but I thought I'd try taking a stab at it in that direction.

[fascination]

just because...I reccommend the song "let me fall" by josh groban...and awesome song that refers to dancing and addresses this issue well I think

[wooh]

Sounds like control issues to me as well (and I would know!) I've learned to enjoy the "loss" of control. Gives me a chance to wind down from all the stress of the rest of my life when I have to be "in control." Kind of like all those powerful business men you hear about going to see a dominatrix, haha! And then I've learned, as was said above, that really, I don't have to go there if I don't want to. But things do tend to go better if I do!

[Laura]

If you're having this much irrational fear from simply standing in a position with your torso stretched up and forward and your head/shoulders curving away from it such that everything is actually balanced of your feet and you're not actually falling backward, then there's something else major going on in the depths of your psyche that needs to be dealt with.

Were you ever dropped or thrown as a kid?

For years in Pilates I had this irrational fear of being upside down. Any inverted position made me crazy, to the point where I'd cry sometimes. I finally remembered a few months ago that when I was a little kid my mom's uncle used to grab me by ankles and spin me around in the air, and that I hated it, and that when I'd shout for him to stop it he woudln't always. I realized that was the source of my fear, and I've been much much better about being inverted ever since.

I only wish I had realized this when I was younger and taking springboard diving lessons. I really wanted to be a diver, but I could not flip myself over -- which brought a pretty much instantaneous end to my diving career. No somersault == no competitive diving.

Well, better late than never.

[fascination]

If you're having this much irrational fear from simply standing in a position with your torso stretched up and forward and your head/shoulders curving away from it such that everything is actually balanced of your feet and you're not actually falling backward, then there's something else major going on in the depths of your psyche that needs to be dealt with.

Were you ever dropped or thrown as a kid?

For years in Pilates I had this irrational fear of being upside down. Any inverted position made me crazy, to the point where I'd cry sometimes. I finally remembered a few months ago that when I was a little kid my mom's uncle used to grab me by ankles and spin me around in the air, and that I hated it, and that when I'd shout for him to stop it he woudln't always. I realized that was the source of my fear, and I've been much much better about being inverted ever since.

I only wish I had realized this when I was younger and taking springboard diving lessons. I really wanted to be a diver, but I could not flip myself over -- which brought a pretty much instantaneous end to my diving career. No somersault == no competitive diving.

Well, better late than never.must say a trauma croosed my mind as well...something to ponder

[Peaches]

perhaps you've worked up the "falling scenario" so much in your mind that now you are more afraid of it than necessary.


(I hope I've managed to quote something correctly...)

I think this has a lot to do with it. I've got terrible balance in general, so falling is one of my secret fears. As is making a spectacle of myself. Combine the two, along with trust and control issues (I'm a HUGE control freak!), and...well...I'm posting here.

In a bizarre way I actually WANT to fall. In a lesson, of course, so my teacher is the only witness to the event. lol. Not enough to actually cause the fall deliberately, but I kind of just hope it happens one time. Just so that I can experience "the worst," and see how I'll deal with it, and learn that it's not the end of the world. (OK, so I can get a bit melodramatic.) Does that make sense?

I like the suggestion of practicing the movements on my own--I think I'll try that at home. I just hope I don't end up practicing with crappy frame. Also, I think I'll work on thinkng of the trust as a way to improve my own dancing. Elementary, but some of us are slow learners, I guess.

I hear what's being said about not having to go where I'm led. I've been learning 1)how not to go where I don't want to (spins, in particular, in swing), and 2)things generally go much much better if I follow where I'm asked to go. Sometimes, though, it just feels so...anachronistic and traditional. (Why does the man always get to lead!?!?) Not that I want the responsibility of leading--I've come to enjoy that freedom--but darn it, I don't like being "told what to do" by a man!

Argh!! This is hitting me when I'm having doubts about this whole dancing thing. I love it--I've found my way of relating to music, I love the release that I feel after a good night out, I love the high that I get that lasts for days when everything comes together and a dance just feels divine. But I'm starting to get that feeling like I'm just p*ssing money down the drain with lessons, because you can't teach talent. I would love, so much, to actually have A talent (I'd be happy with one!) when it comes to dancing. I like to console myself with the thought that my enthusiasm makes up for my lack of talent and ability. I just hope I don't injure anyone with my enthusiam. lol. *sigh*

[RIdancer82]

Ok, so on the confidence issue.... repitition is probly the key to being more confident on the floor. The more you practice the steps and the choreography, the better you will feel about it. When you are confident about what you are doing, you will very rarely make a "spectacle" of yourself. practice, practice, practice.... I know it's redundant, but it always seems to be the key.... even when it comes to the control issue. You will become more comfortable with that too as you start to really understand that the man is not telling you what to do, but merely suggesting it. Don't forget that you're the one who's making him look either good or bad. So really the control is all in your hands. You just have to decide how to use it :wink:

[delamusica]

Not that I want the responsibility of leading--I've come to enjoy that freedom--but darn it, I don't like being "told what to do" by a man!


I always think of the lead as more of a suggestion. :) The lead suggests a direction, and then I go there (usually), completely in control of my own moving. That's why I hate leads that push me - besides the fact that it just hurts after awhile, I get into this very indignant "I'm GOING already, stop shoving me!" mindset. Then I get all grumpy and dancing is no fun . . .

Most good leads are basically inviting you to move in a particular way, not demanding. So try to think of them as asking a favor of you, rather than forcing you to do something.

[delamusica]

Also, have you ever seen anyone else fall while dancing? I've seen people fall on multiple occasions - in competition - and it's never a big deal. I've fallen, too. I can't speak for your particular dance scene, but everywhere I've been, everyone watching really wants you to do well - they won't look down on you for a stumble.

[Katarzyna]

My partner was on the floor in Viennese at the last comp.. not a big deal :)

[latingal]

Hey Peaches - sounds like you're getting plenty of good suggestions from all the forum members!

I did want to point one thing out to you that might get lost in all this discussion, it seems that in fact the trust issue may not about your teacher...a good part of it seems to be about trusting YOURSELF! I may be off base here, but it might be good food for thought.

The fear of falling backwards can mostly be remedied by practicing movements in position by yourself until you are confident that your body can stay over it's own feet and catch itself, if needed, in the majority of situations.

I think you're headed in the right direction talking about practicing by yourself at home.

As far as the actual falling goes...just landed on my rear end myself two days ago practicing quickstep with my pro. Shoe decided to come off my foot (going backwards) and my foot decided it wanted to try to stay with the shoe...a bit embarrassing yes, but most people that witness that kind of event are more interested in making sure you're okay then wondering if you are a klutz....

Take heart, keep dancing if your heart tells you it's what you want to be doing!

[Peaches]

Wow, I've gotten so much good advice. And so much encouragement! So much to think about.

Now I'm so mixed up! lol. Here I was thinking it was a "trust in my teacher" kind of thing, but now I'm not sure.

As far as the falling/dropped trauma, nothing comes to mind. I've fallen off horses, and been stepped on; slid down stairs; been dropped when fighting my brother...nothing stands out as particularly traumatic. The "trauma" that does stand out would probably belong in another thread I ran across...something about what you were like in high school.

I've always been shy. And clumsy. And brainy. And picked-on. I learned really early on that my best defense was to try to become as invisible as possible, in the hopes that no one would notice me to tease me. Also, I would never put myself in a situation to fail. It drove me to do exceptionally well in school (although that brought it's own form of notariety (sp?)), but kept me from doing other things too. Like dancing.

I guess I'm afraid of the loss of control inherent in falling--you can't control that much when you're freefalling, particularly backwards. And, more than that, I dread the attention that falling would invite. It goes back to trying not to make a spectacle of myself. Heck, it's been hard enough to get used to the idea of dancing with other people around. (You want me to what? But there are people who can see me! And you KNOW I'm going to screw it up!)

I feel like I'm in therapy! lol. To be fair, I guess I invited it. Maybe I should be on a couch somewhere!

[latingal]

Like I said Peaches, hang in there!

I had similar experiences in high school and I know those particular horrors. Dancing is a great way to express yourself, when perhaps you've never been able to with your social situations. It's a joy when you finally get to the point that you can let go and just flow with the dance...you'll get there, just know that most of us have moments of doubt and we just need to fight through them.

The best thing you can do for your falling situation is train your body as best as you can to not be in a situation to fall and then know you've done your best to prevent a fall. Just be aware, as I mentioned my mishap earlier, sometimes it's just gonna' happen. If it helps any, in most cases I think the leader (in my case my pro) is more mortified then you that they didn't somehow prevent you from falling!

[latingal]

p.s. Peaches, I know what you've gone through with the dancing in front of other people...I've developed a very nasty case of looking at the floor while I'm dancing latin because I try to avoid looking around while I'm dancing (I might actual see someone who might be watching! Ack!)

[fascination]

hey, aren't we all either in therapy or in need of it?.....i dont know very many people who walk around with an excellent body image...feeling like: hey people look at me.....I think once we realize that we all struggle with that, we get over ourselves a bit , if we are strong....or we quit...you srike me as the former not the latter

[skwiggy]

This bit of advice came from an unrelated context, but from it one can take away something related to this thread.

Years ago, on a lesson (paraphrasing here)...

Coach: You're not pushing yourself far enough, not taking enough risks. Do more.

Partner: If I do any more, I'll fall over.

Coach: So what? So you fall. When you fall, that's when you'll know you've done too much. Until then, just keep pushing yourself. Then if you fall, you'll know you need to do just a little bit less.


What I take away from this is that the fear itself of falling holds us back. And if you let go of that fear, the absolute worst thing that will happen? You will fall. So what? :)

As I indicated in the poll thread about falling, I have fallen A LOT. I have fallen in practice, in competition, in social dances. And so what? I've never been injured from falling (knock on wood). And in competition, as long as I've had a smooth recovery I don't believe it has negatively impacted my placements in the least.

So let go of your fear, and just dance. If you fall, you fall. But until you fall, at least you'll be dancing. :)

[RIdancer82]

What I take away from this is that the fear itself of falling holds us back. And if you let go of that fear, the absolute worst thing that will happen? You will fall. So what? :)

hmm.... try indoor rock climbing to get over a fear of falling. It's the same idea only in a different setting. If you're too afraid of falling, you won't be able to get up the walls because you'll hold back on reaching for the grips. Once you finally realize that you're not going to fall (since you're harnessed in) you're able to overcome that fear. Sometimes putting yourself in a different environment can help.

[latingal]

I guess I'm afraid of the loss of control inherent in falling--you can't control that much when you're freefalling, particularly backwards.

By the way Peaches (sorry I haven't been concise enough to get this all in one post!), there are some ways to "have control" even when you are falling.

I am not an expert on this (and perhaps you should find one to explain this correctly), but I was a gymnast when I was younger, and we fell alot! In a lot of falls there are ways to stack the odds in your favor that you do not get hurt (especially if you are not falling from anything other than your own body height - ie. not falling from a balance beam).

For instance, when I fell in practice a couple of days ago, my body instinctively rolled with the fall so that the impact was absorbed throughout my body and not in one part. Also, my neck and shoulders automatically reacted to keep my head from hitting the floor in a sudden impact (my head "tucked in" and rolled through the impact).

We covered alot of the mental aspect of falling earlier so I thought I should at least touch on a bit of the physical aspect....

Okay that's it for me....I'll keep my mouth shut now unless you have any specific comments/questions. Best of luck to you in finding something that will help you in all this! I hope you will find a way to enjoy the dance!

[waltzgirl]

How are your feet? I realized that my fear of falling came a lot from the fact that my feet have a tendency to roll and, when that happens, it feels like I'm going to roll off balance and fall. Strengthening my feet has helped with this a lot.

I agree with you about wanting to fall. I was very glad when I had my first fall and got it over with (never happened in a lesson, but in a group class when the next girl over accidentally hooked my ankle when we were both turning and just pulled my feet out from under me). Maybe try a little reverse psychology on yourself? I actually went through a period where I would tell myself, OK, if I don't fall on this, it means I'm not taking enough risk, so next time I'll take more risk. If I was "trying" to fall, I wasn't so afraid of falling.

But I do think it's not quite accurate to say that your balance is all up to you and you wouldn't fall if your partner "went away" suddenly. That's true when you're just standing in hold and on some steps. But on steps that rotate, when you and your partner are counter-balancing one another and centrifugal force is at work, you would fly off balance and fall if your partner suddenly let go. But, once you get the feel of that, it's exhilarating and you realize that the way to feel secure is to commit to it and let the physics do its job. And don't forget, he would fall, too, if you let go! It's not all just you depending on him.

[Sagitta]

I think you should be trusting your instructor and also your own body on how it carries itself. I don't know much about smooth dancing positions so I have nothing to add there.
The only trust issues I have in dancing (latin ballroom and salsa) is dips, drops and lifts (..and of course personal space). I only do it with a couple of dancers who I have been dancing with for a while and I trust their ability, strength and judgement (and definately the instructor is/should be one of them).

As a leader I have trust issues there...with one bad accident where a heavy follower overpowered me and threw herself into a dip when I was doing a small one. But, I'm getting over that too.

[Sagitta]

I've always been shy. And clumsy. And brainy. And picked-on. I learned really early on that my best defense was to try to become as invisible as possible, in the hopes that no one would notice me to tease me. Also, I would never put myself in a situation to fail. It drove me to do exceptionally well in school (although that brought it's own form of notariety (sp?)), but kept me from doing other things too. Like dancing.

I guess I'm afraid of the loss of control inherent in falling--you can't control that much when you're freefalling, particularly backwards. And, more than that, I dread the attention that falling would invite. It goes back to trying not to make a spectacle of myself. Heck, it's been hard enough to get used to the idea of dancing with other people around. (You want me to what? But there are people who can see me! And you KNOW I'm going to screw it up!)

I feel like I'm in therapy! lol. To be fair, I guess I invited it. Maybe I should be on a couch somewhere!

huh! I was kinda shy and all. It's something that you recognise and deal with so you don't feel it so much. Such as, I knew I had a good voice and so I now lector. That is get up in church, have a hundred plus eyes on you listening for a couple minutes as you read. Not even you as a couple in dance, but you alone. Lots of things you can do. And this helped in other areas. I'm just giving one example...

[fascination]

huh! I was kinda shy and all. It's something that you recognise and deal with so you don't feel it so much. Such as, I knew I had a good voice and so I now lector. That is get up in church, have a hundred plus eyes on you listening for a couple minutes as you read. Not even you as a couple in dance, but you alone. Lots of things you can do. And this helped in other areas. I'm just giving one example...yep I am a cantor ...singing version of lector...and I find that id definately helps me in the competitive realm b/c I am now accustomed to people watrching me ...and over the worry of messing up in front of them

[chandra]

Argh!! This is hitting me when I'm having doubts about this whole dancing thing. I love it--I've found my way of relating to music, I love the release that I feel after a good night out, I love the high that I get that lasts for days when everything comes together and a dance just feels divine. But I'm starting to get that feeling like I'm just p*ssing money down the drain with lessons, because you can't teach talent. I would love, so much, to actually have A talent (I'd be happy with one!) when it comes to dancing. I like to console myself with the thought that my enthusiasm makes up for my lack of talent and ability. I just hope I don't injure anyone with my enthusiam. lol. *sigh*

You know, I feel the same way sometimes too... When I over think it. But everytime I go out dancing (err, no strike that, certainly not everytime) I am reminded why I love it.
But its not all fun and games anymore. I compete, I have goals, and I spend a sh** load of time and money on it. So sometimes I get frustrated, and sometimes I have doubts, and sometimes I complain, and even cry.
Its hard for me, when that starts creeping in. I so know how you feel.
For me, a good night of social dancing, and the reminder that nothing can get me higher (or lower :p) keeps me dedicated.

[Peaches]

OK, I can't figure out how to quote from multiple posts, so if I attribute something to the wrong person, please bear with me.

Re: Indoor rock climbing (RIdancer82). I've actually tried that several times, and loved it. Until my (pitifully weak) muscles decided to sieze up on me and call it a day. Somehow that seemed different to me--I wonder why. Maybe it's time to try it again...

Re: Learning the correct way to fall (latingal). How do you learn/practice the correct way to fall. I'm just imagining the look on my husband's face as he comes home to find me practicing *that*!!! When I fell off horses, I ususally didn't have any thoughts about roling and protecting head and neck. I knew that's what I should be doing, but usually the only thoughts going through my head were choice, 4-letter words and musings about how rapidly the ground was approaching.

Re: Feet rollling (waltzgirl). What do you mean? I know I tend to walk on the outside edge of my foot, and when I'm not being careful (or my feet hurt and I'm trying to keep dancing) I end up dancing on the outside edges of my feet. Is that what you mean? How do I strengthen my feet?

Oddly enough, I love the feling of any steps I've done that involve centrifugal force. I don't know why. I was reminded of this while tango dancing last night--I had a fabulous leader who lead all sorts of interesting things with fast turns and grapevines (giros), and the centrifugal force/whipping around sensation was so exhilirating.

I think I might have a talent. (!!!) Like I said, I went tango dancing last night, and I ended up dancing with a teacher who had been dancing his entire life. He complimented me so many times on my movement and interpretation and following. And it was an off-night for me--I practically destroyed my big toenails. It made me feel so good (and it made me feel better after all my self-doubting), but there's still a part of me that doesn't believe it. I also danced with the teacher at this particular studio, and had a really fabulous dance. And then, when it was over, I got a hug and a peck on the cheek. He's gorgeous, and I have a crush. It was the last dance of the night--what a way to end!

Oh yeah, that's why I go dancing...

[Laura]

How do I strengthen my feet?

Ballet.

[latingal]

Re: Learning the correct way to fall (latingal). How do you learn/practice the correct way to fall. I'm just imagining the look on my husband's face as he comes home to find me practicing *that*!!! When I fell off horses, I ususally didn't have any thoughts about roling and protecting head and neck. I knew that's what I should be doing, but usually the only thoughts going through my head were choice, 4-letter words and musings about how rapidly the ground was approaching.

<grin> I love that people around this forum can laugh about themselves and let others enjoy their foibles too!

As far as learning to fall, I am definitely not an expert, I learned it instinctively in gymnastics. If I were to give any advice (and it's given to be taken at your own risk) I would say that you might be able to practice this by starting with learning how to do a backwards roll or at least the first half of one. From a squat, roll back on to your backside, keep rolling along your back to the back of your shoulders (don't go further then the back of your shoulders) and keep your head tucked to your chest - try it slowly and make it smooth, nothing should klunk on the ground. Remember it's a roll, your body will be curled up in a ball and once you've rolled past your rear your feet will be up in the air! Once you've mastered that you can take your beginning squat position higher and higher up into a standing position.

When you actually fall, you naturally won't tuck into such a tight position - 1) there won't be time and 2) a slightly more "spread out" position will absorb the momentum so you won't go rollng head over heels (usually).

So that's my take on falling, I know other types of disciplines might advocate other techniques - for instance some martial art forms do a bit of a roll but then flatten their entire body out to the ground to absorb the impact. Anybody else have expertise?

I ended up dancing with a teacher who had been dancing his entire life. He complimented me so many times on my movement and interpretation and following.[...] It made me feel so good (and it made me feel better after all my self-doubting), but there's still a part of me that doesn't believe it. I also danced with the teacher at this particular studio, and had a really fabulous dance. And then, when it was over, I got a hug and a peck on the cheek. He's gorgeous, and I have a crush. It was the last dance of the night--what a way to end!

Sometimes there is a positive flow in this universe of ours....you needed a a self confidence boost and the cosmos was nice enough to hand you one. Take it with a smile and a wink and use it to drive forward - no doubts, you are worthy to dance!!!

[waltzgirl]

Re: Feet rollling (waltzgirl). What do you mean? I know I tend to walk on the outside edge of my foot, and when I'm not being careful (or my feet hurt and I'm trying to keep dancing) I end up dancing on the outside edges of my feet. Is that what you mean? How do I strengthen my feet?


Yes, that's my problem, too. When my feet roll to the outside, I feel like I'm losing my balance. (To my pro's annoyance, I often stop when that happens. When I say I'm losing my balance, he says I'm not. It's just that, as soon as the roll begins, I can feel myself starting to go off balance, but I stop before he can feel it.)

I've strengthened my feet by doing slow toe raises. I concentrate on being islightly on the inside edges of my feet, then raise on my toes for a slow 8 count, hold for 8, lower for eight. At first, it was really hard and I had to touch a wall or something to keep my balance. Now it's pretty easy and I can balance without touching anything. So now I'm moving up to one-foot toe raises.

[Peaches]

Thanks, waltzgirl, for the feedback. I'll have to work on the raises--it sounds a lot like what I used to do (pre-wedding, when I was trying to get all skinny! lol!) to strengthen my calves.

I had another lesson on Sunday, and we worked on quickstep and waltz. I concentrated really hard on finding my correct frame, and maintining my balance, and repeating to myself, "It's OK. You're OK. Everything's OK." Silently, of course. I think my teacher thought I was counting, which I've long since gotten past! I kept trying to trust myself, and trust my teacher.

And...survey says...it kind of worked. It was better, and my instructor commented on it. It still takes a while ("I'll start when I feel my partner," was the catch-phrase of the day.), but I did it. I had to close my eyes, take a deep breath, grit my teeth, and I whimpered a bit every time...but I did it. Baby steps, right? lol. Maybe I can do this.

(Keep repeating to self: "You can do this. Practice. We're all OK. Practice. BREATHE!! Practice. You're OK.")

Oh yeah, and because when I get nervous and/or concentrate really hard I have a tendency to either hold my breath or not breathe at all, I kept getting reminded to take a breath. You gotta' start somewhere, right? Maybe one day I'll master walking. (Although with Argentine tango, this walking thing could take a darn long time!)

Thanks for all the help and support, though.

[latingal]

Congrats Peaches! It sounds like your'e moving forward....you go girl!!!

[Shooshoo]

Re: Learning the correct way to fall (latingal). How do you learn/practice the correct way to fall. I'm just imagining the look on my husband's face as he comes home to find me practicing *that*!!! When I fell off horses, I ususally didn't have any thoughts about roling and protecting head and neck. I knew that's what I should be doing, but usually the only thoughts going through my head were choice, 4-letter words and musings about how rapidly the ground was approaching.



Practice, practice, practice, you'll get there :p ;)

What I always try to think of is the most vulnerable body parts to protect, e.g, back, head, neck, knees (once they get injured, it stays for long before recovering). Like if I'm being taken in a dip and I don't safe, I use my legs to carry me. If I realize I'm falling I use my arms to support my weight so the impact is minimal. Also falling on you bum is usually o.k. If you get a muscle sprain or bruise that recovers much quicker than back and knees.

[Twilight_Elena]

Why didn't I post here before? *slaps forehead*

Dear Peaches --
Once upon a time not so long ago, I was a completely different person who was just beggining to learn how to dance. I had a lot of balance issues and... trusting my teacher?? Where did that come from?
So one day I was dancing the easiest, loveliest dance of all, bachata (which, if you don't know it, is a street latin dance). I kept losing my balance
and feeling really NOT stable, so my teacher (he taught us salsa, mostly, as well as bachata and merengue) stopped dancing with me and did two things. One was to take my left hand and firmly place it on his shoulder. Second was to make me lean forward. See, my hand wasn't really holding him the right way but merely resting there, and I was maintaining a purely ballroom frame with my upper body pushed backwards. Why?
I was afraid. Afraid of touching him, afraid of being close to his body (because it's the only way you can dance that dance). It was a purely psychological issue that had nothing to do with my technique. And when I realised what this fear of contact was doing to my dancing, I started working on it. And I'm still working on it. Having improved in technique has helped, but the more I learn, the more I realise it's all in your head. If you say "I'm gonna fall" you are going to fall. If you say "I have no balance" you'll have no balance. But if you say "I am in control of my own body" then you've got it. I'm not kidding. Maintaining a positive, winner's mindset is 90% of achieving anything. It might sound like a lot of talk, but my poor teacher has tried for almost 2 years now to make me realise that, and I'm now finally getting it. Sure, you can't execute a perfect waltz contracheck with a few hours of private lessons. That's technique you have to learn with time and practice. But you can greatly reduce the time you spend on it if you try to be confident and believe in yourself and your abilities. You can't get confident like that. It also takes time and effort.
And talent... Let me tell you another story. About 6 months ago, I got a friend of mine to start dance lessons. Everyone was AMAZED by how quickly she caught up with the steps and technique. In 2 lessons, she did steps and patterns I had be struggling with for a long time. She was cool and relaxed and everyone loved her learning curve. I was feeling so awfully down, envious as hell. I was working so hard and she was so good with almost no effort...
And as time went by, I realised something that is a lesson in life. Talent helps. That's all. What is talent? Is it a natural inclination to listening to the beat and feeling the music and grasping the ideas of patterns and body positions? All that can be taught. Is it beauty in movement? That's in every one of us. My friend booked a package, started attending classes and slowly stopped coming. I asked her why and she said she was too busy with university workload. Then I remembered dancing my arse off during my senior high school year and the summer after that, and the fall after that, with lessons and groups and practicing 24/7. She had the inclination, she may have even had talent. But she didn't have the heart. She didn't love it as much as I do. She wouldn't sacrifice her time to come to classes and keep on dancing even when she felt that nothing is right. And when I saw that I found peace in myself. Talent helps. Good feet help. Fidning the beat easily helps. But you can't teach the heart.
Conclusion. They say dancing is about having a great body and good feet. I say dancing is everything but the body. It's the mind and the heart. The body is a tool that we strive to keep in perfect shape, but it's still just a tool. Focus too much on the tool and you're missing the point.

Twilight Elena

[Sabor]

maybe a psychologist can help.