Ever Have One of Those Nights?

[Phil Owl]

Where you felt completely invisible and possibly even unwelcome?

This last Saturday, I went to a social dance at a local studio (it was a Hustle night), all fired up and ready to glide and twirl the night away.

Well, I arrive, to find a very small handful of people there, but here's the killer:

I HARDLY DANCED THE WHOLE NIGHT!!! :x :? :shock: :( :cry: :roll:

The small handful that was there was this one clique that just didn't seem to want anything to do with anyone outside of itself, except for one woman who asked me to dance, and when we did, I have to admit, I HATED every second of it (she was the cynical/critical type that questions your every lead, move etc.). ARRRRRRGH! I definitely got that vibe of "I'm doing you a favor byu dancing with you"

The rest of the evening I just watched, after trying to break through this "clique" and not even being given the time of day.

Well, I was about ready to leave hanging my head when suddenly, I noticed this one woman (part of the studio staff) had hardly been on the floor at all (I mistakenly assumed she would be deskbound the whole night). Well, I summoned up the wherewithall to ask her to dance, she accepted with a big smile on her face, and it turns out we had 2 fabulous dances. Funny thing is, the first thing she said to me was "I'm not really good at the fancy stuff or know what I'm doing", but I tell you no lie, she was, in my mind THE BEST dancer in the whole room (she was pulling tons of cool stuff out of the hat!) and making it a joy for me to lead. She said afterwards she normally does salsa. I complemented her on her arm styling too (have to admit, I like that soaring bird effect), which she got a big kick out of. I further complimented her for the fact tha she just really let go and enjoyed and didn't get so uptight about having every step perfect. Hopefully that made her night.

So, the night was not a complete loss, but have to admit it really saddens and upsets me that people can be that snooty and think they're better than everyone else. Then I remember something a woman friend of mine who is a dancer/choreographer said, and that was that any woman who gets snooty with a guy about his dancing is not someone you want to be around to begin with.

Guess I just had to vent.


Any comments, observations or recipes for filet mignon? :P

[ballroomboilergirl]

I know the feeling, Phil...a lot of the more advanced members of my team don't really make any effort to make the new members feel welcome and act a bit standoffish at times when we try get involved and have "team spirit". But I think the times when we're all out on the floor at practice just doing our thing the animosity kinda disappears and we're all just a bunch of people who enjoy dancing that are just hanging out together. I hope that with time the beginners can prove themselves enough that the unfriendliness will disappear off the floor as well :D Its all for the love of dance anyway, right?

[Spitfire]

I've experienced this with the local WCS group who are notorious for it. Any group like this where you have to "prove" yourself to gain acceptance is not worth the time of day.

And I've been dancing in places after being told that it was cliquish only to find it not to be as far as I could see. Groups of the same people will often sit and chat together, but don't limit their dancing to such.

[danceguy]

Hi Phil,

I imagine you will not be going back there again! While I've had a few encounters with cliquish people at dances...I've never been to a scene that bad. I ran into a bit of this on a smaller scale and it made me want to give up at first, but finally I decided I'd just keep practicing and not let it get to me.

I go out dancing because I want to dance and be social with other dancers...and if some folks act like that, it's their loss to meeting new and interesting people. :)

Best,

SG

[Spitfire]

I know the feeling, Phil...a lot of the more advanced members of my team don't really make any effort to make the new members feel welcome and act a bit standoffish at times when we try get involved and have "team spirit". But I think the times when we're all out on the floor at practice just doing our thing the animosity kinda disappears and we're all just a bunch of people who enjoy dancing that are just hanging out together. I hope that with time the beginners can prove themselves enough that the unfriendliness will disappear off the floor as well :D Its all for the love of dance anyway, right?

Welcome ballroomboilergirl, :D

Lafayette, Indiana and Purdue?

A longtime friend of mine use to live there; he attended Purdue and his dad was a professor there. :D

[Dancegal]

Yes, I've been there. Sometimes I have awesome nights, sometimes I feel invisible - although I've been swing dancing overall for 2 yrs, I'm a relative newcomer to the Lindy scene -it'll be one year in January. Many of the veterans have known each other about 3-5 yrs and are more in tune with each other & hang together for out of town trips to exchanges, etc. As a follow, I sometimes have to ask men to dance and don't like it when I have to do that at times since it is against my nature. I have had to be persistent in practicing Lindy in spite of it not being fun at times due to cliquishness (real or perceived) and it has paid off - more good nights than otherwise. I dance because I enjoy it and crave it, even if every now and then I feel like I have to work to get to dance.... There may be 1 or 2 (thank goodness, not many as I might have thought early on) dancers who may think are superior to others (and even then, I would not dare judge that); however, I have learned to dismiss this and not let this get in the way of MY enjoyment of the dance.

[salsachinita]

:? Hmmmm......cliquish ppl can kinda dampen your night, especially when it's one of THOSE non-happenin' ones....!

I can definitely identify with that, Phil. Especially when my side of woods has a shortage of dance population :) !

(Not so much now, but) When I first re-entered the salsa scene about 18 mths ago (after a five-year break), I didn't know most of the current patrons. I knew all the musicians (who are always playing) & old-schoolers (who rarely go out any more) but hardly knew anyone to have a dance with :( , so I had to ask guys (a 'newbie' all over again :roll: ).

A lot of the 'studio' dancers are highly selective as to who they dance with. so they generally stay dancing with ppl from the same schools/styles. It took me a while to kinda 'loosen' the pack a bit.

(on the other hand, the 'old-schoolers' can also be shy to dance with the 'studio' ones, thinking they themselves know less moves/not flashy/dance differently etc.)

Ultimately I think people get into 'clique' mode (*safety in numbers* :?: ) coz they can be a bit un-sure/shy/reserve.

And getting out there & ask strangers for a dance is definitely NOT within one's comfort zone (in most cases) :shock:

So I'm usually the one out of comfort zone here.
(But sometimes you are just NOT in the mood to do that :roll: !)

Some of the best salsa nights happened because there were people from mixed (dance) backgrounds. These are the nights when people tend be more open of interactions thus give out better vibes.

What's your experience....? :?

[ballroomboilergirl]

Yep, I'm in West Lafayette here @ Purdue (IU is in Bloomington, which is about 2 1/2 hours south of here), havin' a blast as a freshman chem major and doing Ballroom Dance Team :D Where was your friend from, and what did his dad teach?

[Phil Owl]

:? Hmmmm......cliquish ppl can kinda dampen your night, especially when it's one of THOSE non-happenin' ones....!

I can definitely identify with that, Phil. Especially when my side of woods has a shortage of dance population :) !

(Not so much now, but) When I first re-entered the salsa scene about 18 mths ago (after a five-year break), I didn't know most of the current patrons. I knew all the musicians (who are always playing) & old-schoolers (who rarely go out any more) but hardly knew anyone to have a dance with :( , so I had to ask guys (a 'newbie' all over again :roll: ).

A lot of the 'studio' dancers are highly selective as to who they dance with. so they generally stay dancing with ppl from the same schools/styles. It took me a while to kinda 'loosen' the pack a bit.

(on the other hand, the 'old-schoolers' can also be shy to dance with the 'studio' ones, thinking they themselves know less moves/not flashy/dance differently etc.)

Ultimately I think people get into 'clique' mode (*safety in numbers* :?: ) coz they can be a bit un-sure/shy/reserve.

And getting out there & ask strangers for a dance is definitely NOT within one's comfort zone (in most cases) :shock:

So I'm usually the one out of comfort zone here.
(But sometimes you are just NOT in the mood to do that :roll: !)

Some of the best salsa nights happened because there were people from mixed (dance) backgrounds. These are the nights when people tend be more open of interactions thus give out better vibes.

What's your experience....? :?


First off, thanks to everyone who replied to this post, your understanding, encouragement and empathy is greatly appreciated! :D

It's true, I won't be going back to that particular spot any time soon (plus I'm moving out of the area anyway).

It just came as such a rude shock because when I go out to dance (mainly swing) I NEVER had something like that happen. And yes, I actually can spot the "Lindy Clique" pretty fast and don't even bother with it, as there are TONS of people to dance with who don't buy into that whole elitist/snobbery thing.

Salsachinita, regarding your question at the end of the post, I have found that dancing with people with a mixed and varied dance background/experience was nothing short of wonderful, good vibes and all. There is something to be said for that. :D

[borikensalsero]

I really haven't had a chance to dance salsa outside NY City, Miami, and Puerto Rico. However, if we are talking about cliques, NY City is the capital of cliques. Studio dancers in NY City tend to be the snobbiest bunch of people I've ever met. Hence, the good old, BYOP (Bring your own partner) when you go to dance venues. They claim it is because you never know if lots of dancers are going to be there, but, please, we all see that dance schools rather not dance outside their clique.

They build a protective wall around each other, not only standing around, but also on the dancefloor. One time I was feeling devilish, so I made it a point to stand next to the "main" dancer and become a critical observer, with sentences such as, "that was nice, too bad he is was off beat". Wow, now lets see it on beat... Yeah, sweet dance, how come it didn't go with the song?

On the other hand, the better dancers rather dance with someone of their stature as opposed to making someone dance. There isn't as much fun in making someone dance, as opposed to having the dance with you. If you aren't well known, and more over, a guy, you aren't going to have a chance to dance in many places. You'll have to break the ice. You'll have to grab someone and make sure they enjoy the heck out of that dance. Soon, she'll carry the msg to her friends and they'll be on-the-look-out for you.

It is hard to be new to a spot, that is when you must take it upon yourself to get out there and dance. When I go to a new place, I'll watch for about an hour or so, longer if I'm not feeling the music nor the crowd, I might even leave without a dance, but it is my choice not to. I stand to the side, see who is who. Who dances what style and how cliquey they are. When I'm good and ready I wait for a song that is a blow my top off to start my dancing night. I grab the person who I've enjoy most watching. After that is pretty much safe to assume that I'll be dancing the rest of the night. God, I've made mistakes before, grab the girl who I've enjoyed the most watching and it turns out that she can only follow a routine. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... Isn't that a turn off!

[peachexploration]

.....we all see that dance schools rather not dance outside their clique.

.....On the other hand, the better dancers rather dance with someone of their stature as opposed to making someone dance.

BorikenSalsero, this happens in Orlando too. Even at my own dance school within dance levels. This is too bad because there good dancers in all levels. I was snubbed at first also by the so called "Elite" when my instructor needed an extra follow in the advanced class. (which is why I choose to stay in intermediate) So afterwards, I made it a point to dance with all beginners and only one advance student at our Social last night. I hate when people treat others that way. Advanced Salsa or "Your not in my clique" dancer does not mean better. It's all about dancing and having fun, well at least for some of us. :wink:

[salsachinita]

Agree with you there, Peachexploration!
(which is exactly why I stay out of the 'studio' environment :roll: )

[borikensalsero]

So afterwards, I made it a point to dance with all beginners and only one advance student at our Social last night. I hate when people treat others that way.

It's great to see that you take the time to dance with the newbies. We are very fragile when we first start dancing and anything can break us before we even begin to dance. I can still feel it, I know nothing, I'm at a social, I'm scared as heck, my eyes are wide open like a deer in head lights, no one cares to dance with me, or even worse acknowledge me. That is enough right there to not want to be mixed up with dancers.

It seems that once dancers get to the next level, they forget that they too were beginners at one point. It's like saying, I paid my dues now you must as well. Instead of destroying a nasty habbit they keep it alive.

How awsome is it to see the glooming eyes and smile of a newbie after their first dance with a better dancer? ahhhh, its like watching the first steps of a new born... I don't have any kids so I might be a lill of here. :D

[peachexploration]

How awsome is it to see the glooming eyes and smile of a newbie after their first dance with a better dancer? ahhhh, its like watching the first steps of a new born... I don't have any kids so I might be a lill of here. :D

It's wonderful dancing with beginners because:

1. You are so right! I was a beginner once and yeah I felt like a fish out of water in the beginning so if feels good to bring a smile to a beginners face.
2. It's such a confidence builder. I hate to see people give up too soon on such a passionate dance. Alot of the time, beginners should be in higher levels and they don't even know it.
3. I like making friends and to start a good friendship, you have to be genuinely "good" to people.

Last night, a couple of beginner leads, as their confidence rose, they began to be more creative and do turns and moves they didn't know they could do. That's the best, that spur of the moment "Aha" you get when this happens. :D

[ballroomboilergirl]

Amen! Some advanced dancers on my team groan at the thought of having to dance with a beginner, so I really appreciate the handful of them that are actually happy to help and give positive and constructive criticism, rather than rolling their eyes and sighing heavily every time a beginner fouls up. If anything, I think advanced dancers should take it as a compliment that others want to dance with them because they're good, and should share their expertise with others who look up to them.

[salsachinita]

It seems that once dancers get to the next level, they forget that they too were beginners at one point. It's like saying, I paid my dues now you must as well. Instead of destroying a nasty habbit they keep it alive.

I thought of the same things as well.

That's why I tried to keep the good karma flowing by remembering those who took time & effort to dance with me in my newbie days. I do the same to newbies.

Isn't it amazing how a good dance/nice comment can transform your night instantaneously....? :D

[salsachinita]

Last night, a couple of beginner leads, as their confidence rose, they began to be more creative and do turns and moves they didn't know they could do. That's the best, that spur of the moment "Aha" you get when this happens. :D

Bravo! We NEED more of them good leads.......the more the merier :wink: for us girls!

[Dancegal]

Bravo! We NEED more of them good leads.......the more the merier for us girls!

Agreed! I know so many guys who just don't get it and just will not take dance lessons or will take a beginning class and never practice & quit! I can see how discouraging it can be to start out. The more, the merrier (and the cuter the better :D :twisted: )

[salsachinita]

This relates to the guys-quit-early factor. Has any of you checked out "Beginner's Hell" (in 'Beginner's Corner' if I remembered correctly) in Edie's website....? There is a really cool chart showing male/female learning curves!

Check it out!

http://dancefreak.com/stories/beginners_hell.html

[Sagitta]

Good to see so many of you wonderful followers out there willing to give us newbies the opportunity to grow.

I also, though I am a beginner, help out people onto the dance floor. Just tonight I danced with one person who had just started taking a salsa class, and another one who had never danced before. The first to salsa, and the second to merengue, as it's easier to try and get a person to feel that beat. It's a great feeling to make someone who feels intimidated by the action on the dance floor happy/delighted to be out there doing there stuff.

While I understand to some extent when people are couples I think that there is a limit to cliques!!! The reason why I had a fantastic time tonight at the latin club was actually because there were so many different people, which destroyed the cliques. (I usually just have a good time, even with the cliques as I am the clique-breaker. I don't really pay attention to that and I'll ask anyone, clique or no clique...well almost anyone...It works for me :) )

Ballroomboilergirl -- another chem major!!! I majored in chemistry and environmental studies in undergrad. :) And now I work at a Fine Arts library!! :) Go figure!!!!

[danceguy]

Agreed! I know so many guys who just don't get it and just will not take dance lessons or will take a beginning class and never practice & quit! I can see how discouraging it can be to start out.

Thank you ladies for sticking up for us beginner leads (well I'm sort of becoming an intermediate...but I still think of myself as a beginner)! It takes a lot of guts to go to class as a stranger without any friends, especially if you are single like I did! That's the reason I've posted a lot about people in classes being unfriendly to me...it really can take so very little to make a guy want to leave. A few mean comments and I tend to close up and forget how to dance. I nearly walked out of a class myself the other night...was actually starting to and I just stopped myself...but it wasn't easy...and I'm very glad I didn't lose my temper. :?

more, the merrier (and the cuter the better )

Come on now...that's a shallow sort of thing to say...some of the most attractive women I've danced with have been the worst dancers...and vice versa for the good dancers. For a lady to really catch my eye, she's got to have a combonation of many factors, physical appearance being at the bottom of my personal list. :wink:

Best,

SG

[Dancegal]

[quote]more, the merrier (and the cuter the better )

Come on now...that's a shallow sort of thing to say...some of the most attractive women I've danced with have been the worst dancers...and vice versa for the good dancers. For a lady to really catch my eye, she's got to have a combonation of many factors, physical appearance being at the bottom of my personal list. :wink:

Best,

SG

I do know better - it just doesn't hurt if they are attractive (icing on the cake) :lol: - I find no such luck :lol: Seriously though, there is something to be said about a man with rhythm :)

[SDsalsaguy]

Seriously though, there is something to be said about a man with rhythm :)
Yeah, obviously, "he has rhythm," right? :wink:

[SDsalsaguy]

Well, unfortunately I just had one of those other nights... the ones where you're hoping going dancing is just going to fix everything right up and... nada.

I was in a crappy mood to start with and didn't feel like going out but reminded myself that when I feel like this and force myself to go anyway, 9 times out of 10, I ended having a really great time anyway. Well, tonight was that 10th time out of 10... :(

I really wasn't feeling it tonight, there was almost no one to dance with (thanks for the few dances Pukpik), the atmosphere was just off... I don't know, maybe the planets are out of cosmic alignment and what not, but it's just such a let down when even dancing doesn't help pick me back up.

SD-not a happy camper-salsaguy

[Dancegal]

Sorry to hear that. Been there.

[SDsalsaguy]

Sorry to hear that. Been there.
Thanks for the sympathy Dancegal. As the saying goes, "this too shall pass," right? :?

[danceguy]

I hope you have better dances in the future SDSalsaguy. I've been to a few recently...but I always end up doing lots of Swing..and hardly any Latin. I can't remember the last time I actually danced a Salsa or a nice Rumba...there hasn't been anyone around that I cared to ask to dance. :(

All the more reason to seek out some new venues. :wink:

Best,

SG

[SDsalsaguy]

All the more reason to seek out some new venues. :wink:
Funny you said that SG... I'd just been thinking about needing to get away for a couple of days, just to get a change of pace and scenery, you know? But I'd also been thinking about how much I'd also like to just go dance somewhere with a different scene – assuming it was friendly of course! :wink:

[Swing Kitten]

I've been to a few recently...but I always end up doing lots of Swing..and hardly any Latin.

you say it like that's a bad thing?????




;)

[SDsalsaguy]

you say it like that's a bad thing?????
But it is SK*…if/when that’s not what your looking and/or in the mood for. What if you went to a dance and there was almost no swing the entire night? It’s not to say you might not have fun and enjoy yourself with some other dances but, if you had that swing itch going in, it still wouldn’t be scratched on the way out…

* Yes, I do know that you were kidding, but it made me think of this anyway! :wink: :D

[danceguy]

you say it like that's a bad thing?????

SK,

It is not a bad thing...I LOVE to dance swing! Its just that as a person new to dance...I started by studying many different dance styles. Swing, Ballroom, Latin, NC2S, Lindy Hop...the past few months I've been in class 4 nights a week. Now after about 6 months of dancing...I really want to focus on a few styles and reach a good level of competence with them. ECS for me (and most people I would imagine) is a very easy dance...but at the venues I go to sponspored by local dance schools that are Ballroom/Swing/Latin/NC, they tend to be about 80% of the non Latin stuff with a Salsa, Cha-Cha and Rumba throwin just a few times.

As such...I always get my Swing fix without a problem...but usually when a good Latin number comes up...I don't see anyone to dance with. I generally get to do a Cha-Cha...and I've found that very few ladies I meet actually do Rumba and Salsa well enough to have a good dance with them. So...its time for me to branch out and go to a real Latin event...and meet new people in the process!

SG

[danceguy]

Funny you said that SG... I'd just been thinking about needing to get away for a couple of days, just to get a change of pace and scenery, you know? But I'd also been thinking about how much I'd also like to just go dance somewhere with a different scene – assuming it was friendly of course!

Sounds like you need a vacation my friend...I just returned from one as you know, and it was very theraputic for me, well minus the car accident that is. :?

Hey, if you ever come up to Northern California...let me know...there are lots of Salsa venues in the bay area, and a few around here too. It could be a mini DF reunion! :)

Best,

SG

[Dancegal]

I always get my Swing fix without a problem...but usually when a good Latin number comes up...I don't see anyone to dance with.
SG

I have the same problem at a local dance studio I go to - most people know EC swing or C&W Two-Step/Polka - nothing like hearing a salsa or merengue song you really want to dance to only to find no partner to dance with (or the few leads that are there already taken :( )

[salsachinita]

Well, unfortunately I just had one of those other nights... the ones where you're hoping going dancing is just going to fix everything right up and... nada.

SD-not a happy camper-salsaguy

I'm late again to read this...!

Forgive me, SD, for not being here when you wrote this :oops:
:together: *hug* from me. Hope by the time you read this things are cool 8)

[salsachinita]

All the more reason to seek out some new venues. :wink:
Funny you said that SG... I'd just been thinking about needing to get away for a couple of days, just to get a change of pace and scenery, you know? But I'd also been thinking about how much I'd also like to just go dance somewhere with a different scene – assuming it was friendly of course! :wink:

Why don't you guys come down here......!?

I promise to dance with each one of you :wink: !

[Sagitta]

One of these days!!! When I tour the world! :) If I'm included also [hopeful]

Anyway, if you have problem finding leads dancegal are there extra good follows? Then learn the role of leader and you could have fun that way. I have been a follow a couple times and definitely want to do that more as I get more experienced in dance. It's a totally different experience, and a lot of fun too. As I'm sure all you follows out theer already know!! :)

[danceguy]

Why don't you guys come down here......!?

I promise to dance with each one of you !

Salsachinita,

Sounds great mate, but I'm afraid Aussie land is bit out of my way as well as my budget! Besides, if I did go I'm sure SDSalsaguy would end up getting more dances with you due to his damn coffee beans...meanwhile we'd also have to make a trip to NZ to dance with Sarah, where he would also proceed to steal her away too! And I think one heartbreak would be enough for a dance trip across continents! :shock:

Then again, if you have some Vegemite and Pollywaffles, you may just convince me! :wink:

Best,

SG

[Dancegal]

One of these days!!! When I tour the world! :) If I'm included also [hopeful]

Anyway, if you have problem finding leads dancegal are there extra good follows? Then learn the role of leader and you could have fun that way. I have been a follow a couple times and definitely want to do that more as I get more experienced in dance. It's a totally different experience, and a lot of fun too. As I'm sure all you follows out theer already know!! :)

I know the basic salsa lead - taught my ex-boyfriend some (he swing dances). For now, I just find it weird to dance with women...and the women I know don't want to dance THAT badly....

[salsachinita]

Me too. I find dancing with women wierd; unless my friend Paulina (well-known here) gets in the mood to lead me :P ! This often causes the crowd to gather & watch (as one guy explains to me: it fulfills many fantasies :shock: :lol: !)

Seriously though, the machismo ever present in the Latino world has definitely rubbed off on me :roll: I am a firm believer in guys=lead, girls=follow (unless you are teaching/demostrating etc.)

[salsachinita]

Salsachinita,

Sounds great mate, but I'm afraid Aussie land is bit out of my way as well as my budget! Besides, if I did go I'm sure SDSalsaguy would end up getting more dances with you due to his damn coffee beans...meanwhile we'd also have to make a trip to NZ to dance with Sarah, where he would also proceed to steal her away too! And I think one heartbreak would be enough for a dance trip across continents! :shock:

Then again, if you have some Vegemite and Pollywaffles, you may just convince me! :wink:

Best,

SG

No worries, mate. Plenty of Vegemite (not sure if Pollywaffles are Oz) & Weetbix :wink: !

I think I am pretty 'heartbreak-proof' :P

Go on, we always have a shortage of good leads down here :roll: You guys will be popular!

[SDsalsaguy]

Well, unfortunately I just had one of those other nights... the ones where you're hoping going dancing is just going to fix everything right up and... nada.

SD-not a happy camper-salsaguy

I'm late again to read this...!

Forgive me, SD, for not being here when you wrote this :oops:
:together: *hug* from me. Hope by the time you read this things are cool 8)
No forgiveness needed salsachinita... a friend at the time would have been nice but you are allowed (:GASP:) to have a non-DF life too...

Today and tonight started out much the same but, thank G-d, ended on a better note. My old Ballroom & Smooth partner was at the same dance I was and that helped cheer me up a bit...

[SDsalsaguy]

Why don't you guys come down here......!?
Who knows what'll happen in time. Crazier things have happened, right?

You don't by any chance know of a college or university looking for an almost Ph.D. to teach some anthropology related courses in June/July/August, do you? That would certainly make a trip down a lot more feasible! :wink:

[Phil Owl]

What a difference a week makes! :D

This past weekend I had 2 incredible nights of swing dancing, 2 different venues and two of the friendliest crowds you could ever want! Somewhat crowded but still screamingly fun (at a couple points, I had to switch to some WCS to avoid colliding with some folks. One partner actually got a big kick out of that. :wink: ). The second one I went to, ther had just been workshops there earlier in the day, and lots of folks eager to try out new stuff they learned. It was great fun and I hated to leave, but it was getting late.

This Owl went back to the nest very happy indeed! :wink:

[dancergal]

I also had a really great dance night last Sat. I was under the weather due to a fender bender on Thurs. leaving my back sore for 3 days. I was just feeling good enough to dance, but wasn't in a great mood. It was a cold evening and I just didn't feel like being out. But my b/f really wanted to dance so I went along. Well, the band turned out to be great and played lots of good dancing music. Then a lot of our friends showed up and people we haven't seen in awhile. I got asked to dance a lot. It was great fun and I totally had a blast. One lady sitting near us commented to my b/f that I was sure popular dancing so much with everyone. I guess I was that night. 8)

[salsachinita]

Me too. I had a really great week dancing from Wed-Sun :P !

There was a pleasant suprise for all of us this weekend. There was a visitor from Germany who dances like a Cuban :bouncy: !

Needless to say, he was REALLY popular on the dance floor...!

So come on down here, guys.....! We LOVE visitors...! :wink:

I will be your personal host....!

[salsachinita]

Why don't you guys come down here......!?
Who knows what'll happen in time. Crazier things have happened, right?

You don't by any chance know of a college or university looking for an almost Ph.D. to teach some anthropology related courses in June/July/August, do you? That would certainly make a trip down a lot more feasible! :wink:

You never know..... some universities/colleges might have vacancies....?

You can also fwd proposals of short couses to various TAFE colleges. They are open to all suggestions.

I will send you some links soon :wink:

[salsachinita]

Here I am, revisiting an old thread because I would like to share (with the rest of DF) someting that came up in the discussion I had with SG.

This is about cliques in the dace scene.

The hardest cliques to break remains those from dance studios (especially the 'elite' ones), who generally don't know (or don't care to know) much outside their immidiate circle. They can be SO intimidating (but so can a pack of Latinos from the 'hood :wink: ) in numbers :shock: !

But you know what?!? I'm starting to realise that everyone's afraid. It's human nature to be afraid of all things unfamiliar, out of comfort zone. Studioheads are afraid to dance outside of their circle, in case they make fools of themselves (or not being able to show-off properly :roll: ). Latinas won't dance with studio guys in case they can't follow fancy leads. Latino guys are reluctant to dance with studio girls, coz they feel inadeqate when the girls seem bored :roll: .......the list goes on......

It takes an open attitude for everyone to realise that we have more in common than we are different 8) ! We can all benefit from learning about each other's experiences. This applies to all things in life, not JUST in dancing.

This came from our discussion:
I go out of my way to do this as I feel its important for my development as a dancer. I don't want to be someone who only dances with a certain crowd - I enjoy dancing with everyone. :)

:D I love this policy of yours, SG! You will go far with this kind of open attitude :D !

I can't stress enough about the importance of this open attitude to EVERYBODY (of ALL levels) of the salsa scene. I truely believe this is the most effective way to break the current 'cliques' seen around the world, thus building a better dance community globally 8) ! (which is something I am working towards......hopfully I will see the positive result in this life time :wink: )

8) Just thought I'd share it here......

[Sagitta]

Am on the same page as you salsachinita!! Dance with everyone! :) And ladies ask the guys!!

[dragon3085]

I have a theory that seems to hold in both the salsa and country clubs here in Texas, at least so far. When you get to a club you are basically judged by your first few dances. If you go out and show you can dance then you won't have any trouble getting a partner, but if your first one or two dances are not so good for whatever reason, your basically screwed for the rest of the night. Some exception do apply if your a regular at the club, since then the other people know you. Me personally I look at the girls shows first, If she is wearing sandals(here in south texas that seems to be the shoe of choice for ladies) or shoes with no back, forget it, she's just gonna be trying to keep her shoes for most of the dance anyway.

Pat

[Vin]

Hi Pat, actually I have to disagree on one point, I had one of the best connections I have ever had with a woman wearing sandals.
Normally when I go dancing now I have a group and I admit, I tend to dance most of the night with those people in my group. I never turn down a dance from someone outside my group unless I am just exhausted in which case I always tell them I will dance with them later(and I do).
I would say this is more product of the scene than anything else, I used to go and try and dance with as many people as I could, but how many times can you hear "I don't dance" while at a salsa club, I gave up trying to convince these women to dance. Why put myself through that umpteen times a night when I can bring a group including 2-3 girls I know and have great dances all night long.
All that said I do usually end up dancing with 1-2 new people everytime I go out, and on those few occasions where the atmosphere felt good for dancing with random people I have had great time. Unfortunately this has been the exception rather than the rule.

[salsachinita]

When you get to a club you are basically judged by your first few dances.

I agree. Especially if you are a new face around there.

If she is wearing sandals(here in south texas that seems to be the shoe of choice for ladies) or shoes with no back, forget it, she's just gonna be trying to keep her shoes for most of the dance anyway.

Depend on the girl & the shoes. I am over the 'proper dance shoe' phase. I do wear sandles but never the strappy floppy kind (in fact, mine are more like cloggs :shock: with a wide solid band across to hold my foot in)

:wink: only my two cents :wink: ! You will just have to take my word for it until you see me dance 8) !

[dragon3085]

As far the shoes go maybe its a texas thing, but seriously you see a lot of girls lose their shoes when they dance in sandals or 'flip flops' of course its kinda of the clubs fault for allowing them in, as the guys usually have a stricter dress code applied to them.

[HothouseSalsero]

Tonight I was at a dance party/concert at a University. I was with a friend who is still struggling to get the salsa basic. I was spending a lot of time dancing with her, though she was reluctant to try things out to the music. I danced with one other person I recognized from clubs. Most of the other people, who weren't coupled up, were at about the level of my friend. There was some sort of performance by a bunch of students from a dance school. (It wasn't actually all that impressive.) A bunch of women from this school were sitting down for most of the time after the performance. Toward the end of the night, I asked one to dance, wanting to get in one last dance with someone who I knew could dance. (I would have been quite willing to have a less advanced partner--but I just wanted someone who had mastered the basic and could do a couple turns.) No go. She turned me down. Under the circumstances it really bothered me. There was hardly anyone else there to dance with, really. I also think it's poor representation of the dance school. And it was not a club atmosphere, so there was less reason to turn someone down, I think. (I don't think she saw me dancing earlier, and while not great, I bet I am a lot better than she expected.)

[Sagitta]

Too bad about that HothouseSalsero!! There are some that will only dance with a couple people whom they know, irresepctive of the environment, but those are in the minority!!

[dancin_feet]

Uuummmm ..... May need to cop a bit of flack here.

I go to dance to enjoy myself and that means testing myself out against different leads, as well as meeting new people. Now I do dance with beginners (I'm not a snob), but I find that if it is all night that I am dancing with beginners I get a bit cranky. :evil:

There are some beginner guys who just will not ask anyone, because they just don't feel confident. I will ask them to dance, sure, and they step through the basics just fine (I try not to ask if they know any more because I don't want to sound like they are boring me). But I want to also test my metal, and if that doesn't happen, I admit it, I just feel let down.

[Sagitta]

Uuummmm ..... May need to cop a bit of flack here.


Why? Different strokes for different boats. I can see why dancing all night with beginners can lead to a cranky mood. Giving some dances to beginners is thoughtful. Feeling bored / let down is acceptable as long as you can hide it. Otherwise I as a beginner might be hurt more then just not being asked to dance.

[Blondie]

The social dance scene where I live is mostly couples. And as usual, there seem to be an abundance of women with no partners, such as myself. When I attend studio dances or bigger dances in the area, I don't get to dance very often at all. So, I don't attend many of these dances. I don't think I'm picky, although I do draw the line at dancing with the man who kept knocking his knees on mine throughout the whole dance. Ouch!
:roll:

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

Now I do dance with beginners (I'm not a snob), but I find that if it is all night that I am dancing with beginners I get a bit cranky. :evil:


Why don´t you ask more advanced guys to dance?

[dancin_feet]

Why don´t you ask more advanced guys to dance?

I do, usually they come looking for me. But sometimes at a party if there is a definite shortage of males, and only a couple of "advanced" ones there, you do tend to spend most of the night dancing with beginners. The more experienced guys obviously want to share themselves around as well, you just have to be patient. I admit though, some nights I'm not all that patient! :oops:

[salsachinita]

I admit though, some nights I'm not all that patient! :oops:

Me neither! Nights like this I wait by the dance floor to catch them coming off it :twisted: !

[Sagitta]

Why don´t you ask more advanced guys to dance?

I do, usually they come looking for me... But sometimes at a party if there is a definite shortage of males, and only a couple of "advanced" ones there, you do tend to spend most of the night dancing with beginners. The more experienced guys obviously want to share themselves around as well, you just have to be patient. I admit though, some nights I'm not all that patient! :oops:

If I am advanced in a particular dance I enjoy dancing with advanced dancers as well, but yes I will dance with beginners. I learnt by dancing with advanced follows and so I help others out in turn. Now, if you come and ask me to dance I would love to. Actually I get really happy when a follow asks me to dance, as follows aren't assertive enough, IMHO. So go for it!! :)

[LindyQuest]

What a night! :x

It started out promising enough (great DJ, lots of my favorite leads), but for some reason I just couldn't get into it. I did five dances right at the beginning with first-time dancers - that wasn't so bad, but then I found that I was having trouble following the leads that I usually dance with! It was like my feet and my brain were just not communicating! I was making mistakes I haven't made for a while, and even knocked one of my favorite lead's glasses off! :oops: Luckily neither he (nor his glasses) were hurt. The music was really fast, not my style, and even though I tried to sit out of the way during the fast songs, inevitably someone would ask me to dance and I wouldn't be able to keep up with them.

Then to top it off there were a couple of kids (age 10 or younger?) who kept goofing around and running into people. I don't know where their parents were, or if they were with older siblings.

All in all, I left feeling very dissatisfied with myself and my dancing. Err. :evil:

[bordertangoman]

Amen! Some advanced dancers on my team groan at the thought of having to dance with a beginner, so I really appreciate the handful of them that are actually happy to help and give positive and constructive criticism, rather than rolling their eyes and sighing heavily every time a beginner fouls up. If anything, I think advanced dancers should take it as a compliment that others want to dance with them because they're good, and should share their expertise with others who look up to them.

hear, hear. :)
This should be part of any gentleman's code of ethics. Chivalry is not dead. ( though maybe a dying art?)

[MacMoto]

As a follow, I sometimes have to ask men to dance and don't like it when I have to do that at times since it is against my nature.
It was against my nature to ask guys to dance when I started social dancing just over a year ago, and I had some miserable nights sitting for hours watching people dance because of it. Now I do most of the asking -- these days about 8 out of 10 dances I get, I get by asking (some girls even describe asking guys to dance as "doing MacMoto" :shock: :lol:). That way I'm on the dancefloor all night and dance with all the guys I enjoy dancing with, to the songs I enjoy dancing with them. Instead of relying on guys to give me a good night, I go get myself the best night possible.

I have experienced very few flat refusals -- perhaps I've been lucky. I'm certainly aware that guys get a "no" more often, even in my friendly scene where most people follow the "never say no" rule. I haven't come across real cliquish behavours. Many guys in my scene tend not to ask girls outside their circle, and I assumed them to be cliquish at first (mainly because they were better dancers than me -- that's often the root of perceived cliquiness [sp?]), but the truth is they didn't ask me simply because they didn't know me. This is certainly a problem for newbies, and I make a point of going around asking beginners to dance -- beginner leaders have a hard time, and it's in everyone's interest to make things as easy as possible for them so they feel encouraged to stay in the scene.

[Sagitta]

Come over and do the MacMoto on me anytime MM. :) I know a couple of females who do quite a bit of asking and I think that's great. :)

[hopelessly_addicted]

Some of the best salsa nights happened because there were people from mixed (dance) backgrounds. These are the nights when people tend be more open of interactions thus give out better vibes.


This is so true Salsachinita! One of the nights that really inspired me to learn various styles of salsa was the night when people who dance different schools of styles were there... even the "clones" ( :lol: ) asked to dance with me, a beginner!

[Sagitta]

Some of the best salsa nights happened because there were people from mixed (dance) backgrounds. These are the nights when people tend be more open of interactions thus give out better vibes.


This is so true Salsachinita! One of the nights that really inspired me to learn various styles of salsa was the night when people who dance different schools of styles were there... even the "clones" ( :lol: ) asked to dance with me, a beginner!

I enjoy those nights too. I guess this is why I enjoyed Saturday? night at the NY salsa congress at the beginning of the summer. This reminds me. I wonder how the NJ salsa festival went.

[hopelessly_addicted]

Hence, the good old, BYOP (Bring your own partner) when you go to dance venues.
haha I can so relate to this as some of my friends who dance ballroom style salsa find it hard to believe that I get dances without bringing my own partner. I have certainly been very fortunate to have met some really lovely dancers such as salsachinita and many others so that sitting out many good songs due to shyness in asking has been non-existent from the start.

[sunderi]

It was against my nature to ask guys to dance when I started social dancing just over a year ago, and I had some miserable nights sitting for hours watching people dance because of it.

I'm with you, MacMoto: it used to be against my nature to ask a guy to dance, but it's against my nature to sit out all night, too. :)

Now I do the asking for 75% or more of the dances I get. I'm totally fine with it too -- I get to dance more often, and with partners I like. It's a win-win!

[MacMoto]

It's a win-win!
Definitely 8)

[salsachinita]

Hence, the good old, BYOP (Bring your own partner) when you go to dance venues.
haha I can so relate to this as some of my friends who dance ballroom style salsa find it hard to believe that I get dances without bringing my own partner. I have certainly been very fortunate to have met some really lovely dancers such as salsachinita and many others so that sitting out many good songs due to shyness in asking has been non-existent from the start.

8) Glad to be of help.......

[pygmalion]

It was against my nature to ask guys to dance when I started social dancing just over a year ago, and I had some miserable nights sitting for hours watching people dance because of it.

I'm with you, MacMoto: it used to be against my nature to ask a guy to dance, but it's against my nature to sit out all night, too. :)

Now I do the asking for 75% or more of the dances I get. I'm totally fine with it too -- I get to dance more often, and with partners I like. It's a win-win!

Yep. I don't go to dances to sit down. :lol: :lol: