Ok, so now I'm interested (re. LA vs NY)

[Paou]

Ok, so now I'm interested in who differentiates LA and NY by the timing (on1 vs on2) and who by the "extravagant" vs "smooth" moves.

So. Vote for the one that best represents what u think.

I deliberately didn't include and option for "a bit of both" coz I guess almost everyone would just tick that.

[Sabor]

given the way the poll is made.. then neither of those options.. and that includes the 'bit of both' u already opted out..

in my view.. its style of general mode of motion incorporated into music interpretation.. shaped within a framework of a certain dance culture or environment..

why?.. because a versatile smooth dancer will dance smooth wether on1 or on2.. wether 'LA' or 'NY' or 'Cuban' fot that matter..

[Paou]

given the way the poll is made.. then neither of those options.. and that includes the 'bit of both' u already opted out..

in my view.. its style of general mode of motion incorporated into music interpretation.. shaped within a framework of a certain dance culture or environment..

why?.. because a versatile smooth dancer will dance smooth wether on1 or on2.. wether 'LA' or 'NY' or 'Cuban' fot that matter..

I completely agree with you about the smooth thing... Which is why I posted the question. My own definition of LA vs NY is limited to "on1" vs "on2".. But that's only how the words map to concepts in my head.

My question, or rather... what interests me, is what other peoples concept of those labels are.

Unfortunately, the description you provide hasn't enlightened me much to your idea about how the 'styles' actually differ... I understand what you mean by the papragraph "general mode of motion"... but what is it about "particular" dancers that would make you classify them as an LA or NY styler? or wouldn't you?

[Josh]

given the way the poll is made.. then neither of those options.. and that includes the 'bit of both' u already opted out..

in my view.. its style of general mode of motion incorporated into music interpretation.. shaped within a framework of a certain dance culture or environment..

why?.. because a versatile smooth dancer will dance smooth wether on1 or on2.. wether 'LA' or 'NY' or 'Cuban' fot that matter..
But not all dances are characterized as "smooth." I think that's the point of the poll--can we use "smoothness" as a differentiator of the two styles? Or is timing the more dominant difference? Many dances are not characterized by smooth motions, but rather sharp ones--take American Tango (in general) for example. It's not the goal of all dancers to be smooth at all times, and I think the poll is asking whether LA style could be characterized as smooth as NY style often is (in my opinion, a definite no--Vazquez brothers, Alex Dasilva, etc, are not regarded as smooth dancers--great, yes, but not smooth), and whether the difference in this characteristic is as defining as the difference in timing.

[tj]

Part of the problem is also who has influenced the dancer(s) in question. The two styles have merged/blended a lot over the years, and while certain performers/instructors are thought of as being an icon for that style, too many folks want to write off *all* dancers of that style as being one way or the other.

Having talked to enough (and witnessed) dancers of each style, I also will say that they tend to look at different things as being aesthetically pleasing in regards to "advanced" dancers.

[africana]

tj!!!!! you're back !! :D how ha you been?? coolness

ok on topic we've discussed this so many times. but one reason people think the difference is only in the timing is becuase they learn to count the steps and feet placement for ET on2, but don't master the syncopated body movement & weight shift that match the tumbao.
that's what makes the basic harder than LA on1, it's not simply a matter of on1 and on2, or smooth vs aggressive. I happen to know a few smooth LA style dancers.
there are other lesser stylistic & cultural differences, for example the ladies have more freedom to shine, with emphasis on follow techinique and the leads are more negotiative in NY style, whereas in LA style the men tend to dominate and power the ladies through moves to create that flashy look, and flashy sexy ladies styling, tricks, dips and drama, also differences in music preference and tempo...
but as others have said, the styles are merging more and more with all sorts of hybrids

[tj]

Yep, I'm back, Africana. How ya been hon? Going to any congresos in the near future?

[africana]

Yep, I'm back, Africana. How ya been hon? Going to any congresos in the near future?
good :D yes! I'm going to the Boston congress at the end of this month :bouncy:
I can't plan ahead yet but I'm hoping I can make the shaka/dc congress too

[tj]

good :D yes! I'm going to the Boston congress at the end of this month :bouncy:
I can't plan ahead yet but I'm hoping I can make the shaka/dc congress too

(To everyone else reading this thread: pardon the hijack.)

Have you heard - there are actually two congresses in DC this spring. I'll try to track down the info and post it.

[africana]

(To everyone else reading this thread: pardon the hijack.)

Have you heard - there are actually two congresses in DC this spring. I'll try to track down the info and post it. Yes I heard! what's that about? that's why I specified the "shaka/dc congress" are they around the same time? I wonder which will be better

[Beto]

Yes I heard! what's that about? that's why I specified the "shaka/dc congress" are they around the same time? I wonder which will be better

Back in 1999, DC had its first salsa congress, known as the Salsaweb Convention. In 2000, they called it the Salsaweb DC Dancers Reunion (which was my first congress type event and where I first saw, and was amazed by, the New York and NJ dancers). I think the 2001 event didn't happen or wasn't very successful due to it being the month after 9/11.

So for 4 years, there were no huge congress/convention type events in DC until last year's collaboration between Shaka and David Melendez.

More info about this upcoming May event can be found on the organizers' homepage at http://www.wepanet.com

For out of towners this may or may not present a problem but for us DC/Maryland/Virginia people it looks like we're going to have a very good May and June :D

[Big10]

I think the poll is asking whether LA style could be characterized as smooth as NY style often is (in my opinion, a definite no--Vazquez brothers, Alex Dasilva, etc, are not regarded as smooth dancers--great, yes, but not smooth), and whether the difference in this characteristic is as defining as the difference in timing.
Huh? :confused: I always thought that Alex Da Silva's nickname was "Mr. Smooth."

[africana]

Back in 1999, DC had its first salsa congress, known as the Salsaweb Convention. In 2000, they called it the Salsaweb DC Dancers Reunion (which was my first congress type event and where I first saw, and was amazed by, the New York and NJ dancers). I think the 2001 event didn't happen or wasn't very successful due to it being the month after 9/11.

So for 4 years, there were no huge congress/convention type events in DC until last year's collaboration between Shaka and David Melendez.

More info about this upcoming May event can be found on the organizers' homepage at http://www.wepanet.com

For out of towners this may or may not present a problem but for us DC/Maryland/Virginia people it looks like we're going to have a very good May and June :D thanks Beto! you are always the source of all information :D

care to say which event would be better for an out-of-towner??

[Josh]

Huh? :confused: I always thought that Alex Da Silva's nickname was "Mr. Smooth."

Yes I believe it is too--and maybe he IS regarded by some as a smooth dancer--but watch him dance... it's cool--and I will be taking some lessons from him soon when I go to LA--but it's not smooth. Okay, a note--some of his moves are somewhat "smooth," but I would use the word "sexy" rather than smooth.. he even has a "sexy moves" video or something like that. So some patterns he dances are smooth, but his overall style is not smooth... look at his CBLs and basics, I mean.

[genEus]

Yes I believe it is too--and maybe he IS regarded by some as a smooth dancer--but watch him dance... it's cool--and I will be taking some lessons from him soon when I go to LA--but it's not smooth. Okay, a note--some of his moves are somewhat "smooth," but I would use the word "sexy" rather than smooth.. he even has a "sexy moves" video or something like that. So some patterns he dances are smooth, but his overall style is not smooth... look at his CBLs and basics, I mean.

I found this clip in our clips section:

http://www.lasalsacentral.com/Videos/alex_liz_laughlin_6_2002.wmv

Yeah. Wow. I have no more questions about NY vs. LA style. I mean, maybe I shouldn't judge by this one clip but I don't know how you could put "smooth" and Alex Da Silva together... Hmmm

[Paou]

I found this clip in our clips section:

http://www.lasalsacentral.com/Videos/alex_liz_laughlin_6_2002.wmv

Yeah. Wow. I have no more questions about NY vs. LA style. I mean, maybe I shouldn't judge by this one clip but I don't know how you could put "smooth" and Alex Da Silva together... Hmmm

Good illustration. Just goes to show how different people interpret concepts differently. Personally I would agree that Alex da silva isn't "smooth" in the sense we're discussing here... i.e. his movements are not so smooth and flowing... but you can probably attribute other senses of the word smooth to him....

...and that's why I'm interested. How different people predominantly percieve these words "LA style" and "NY style". Without judging anything.

As an example... one person might say I don't like dancing LA... and actually mean "I don't like all these flashy moves, but have no problem dancing on1". and another might say I prefer LA and actually mean "I don't like all these flashy moves we do, but dancing on2 feels too strange".

Personally, i've certainly had people comment on how much my dancing was more NY than LA because I prefer a smooth movement over flashy show moves. I just do it on1... but would I still be called an LA styler??

[BugBear]

I found this clip in our clips section:

http://www.lasalsacentral.com/Videos/alex_liz_laughlin_6_2002.wmv

Yeah. Wow. I have no more questions about NY vs. LA style. I mean, maybe I shouldn't judge by this one clip but I don't know how you could put "smooth" and Alex Da Silva together... Hmmm
To me that looks like Cuban with a lot of spins and... errrr... what was the word... acrobatics?

[Beto]

thanks Beto! you are always the source of all information :D

care to say which event would be better for an out-of-towner??

You're welcome. :)

Which event? Whoa...y'know I can't honestly say. I liked Ricardo's event when I went in 2000 and I liked Shaka and David's event when I went last year (great start for a new event in DC) and naturally I'll hit both. To think of it as an out-of-towner, I can only say that you should look at the line-ups for both congresses, see which bands, instructors and dancers appeal to you and decide based on that. I have to be diplomatic here. ;)

[Josh]

I mean, maybe I shouldn't judge by this one clip but I don't know how you could put "smooth" and Alex Da Silva together... Hmmm

yep...if you look at his instructional videos, he has some great moves, and some of his more 'sensual' moves are indeed smooth, but not his actual movement on the floor. Nonetheless, great dancer and one who I hope to learn some things from in May! One more thing--that clip was 4 years ago, so his style may be a bit different today.

Personally, i've certainly had people comment on how much my dancing was more NY than LA because I prefer a smooth movement over flashy show moves. I just do it on1... but would I still be called an LA styler??

I completely understand this--when someone asks me what style I dance, I say "on1", not "LA." My movements and style are somewhere in between LA and NY--I'll do LA-ish moves while keeping the motion itself more smooth as in NY.

The beauty is that each one of us has his/her own style. Just like certain songs can't be categorized into a specific genre, most dancers do not easily fit into one category or another--it's often a mix.

[alemana]

wow, four years ago. i can't wait til i can say i've been dancing that long.

[africana]

I found this clip in our clips section:

http://www.lasalsacentral.com/Videos/alex_liz_laughlin_6_2002.wmv

Yeah. Wow. I have no more questions about NY vs. LA style. I mean, maybe I shouldn't judge by this one clip but I don't know how you could put "smooth" and Alex Da Silva together... Hmmm

contrast that clip with this one (http://www.dropshots.com/videolink.php?userid=59735&currentDate=20060108&currentTime=151747&showVideo=1) or any milton cobo/Juan matos/Frankie M clip
the differences are far more profound than "smooth" versus "flashy"
can you tell what they are?

[africana]

wow, four years ago. i can't wait til i can say i've been dancing that long.
next month makes 5 years since my 1st salsa steps :shock: im old haha i do feel it, some nights it's hard not to be bored

[africana]

ok found some clips on addicted2salsa - all NY on2

Juan Matos (http://salsacommunity.com/downloads/videos/salsaloon_la_congress_2002_juan_matos.wmv)

Milton Cobo (http://salsacommunity.com/downloads/videos/chicago_salsa_congress_2003_Milton_1.wmv)

Frankie Martinez (http://salsacommunity.com/downloads/videos/chicago_salsa_congress_2003_frankie_Martinez 1.wmv)

go real women go!! :D go on2! :p

[africana]

had a reminder lastnight that I REALLY love watching the confidence and flash of the LA style "alpha" male! it's not something that's transmittable or teachable though
I saw this Vasquez-esque visitor doing his thing :cool: :cool: :D it was fun to dance with him even though I had a hard time maintaining some good technique but sometimes it's got to be all about the man heeeh