ugh, his arms are horrendous!

[ladyinred]

My amateur partner and I have moved up to Open American Smooth. Since I have an extensive ballet/jazz backgrond, I'm finding the transition to be very comfortable. However, my partner's arms are horrendous! We've been working on them for a few months and I do see some improvement, but I'm starting to feel like his lack of arm styling is going to drag me down. I don't want this to ruin our partnership, and I'm not sure if I'm just being hot-under-the-collar.

So, I guess here are my questions: How should we continue to work on his arms? If your partner is not improving, despite effort, what do you do? Stay partners? Move on?

I need some serious support! I feel really awful, but I'm very dedicated to dancing and I want my partner to be equally as skilled as I am.

LIR

[wyllo]

Is your partner being taught how to initiate arm movement from the core? If he is just learning where to put his arms when, then they will be disconnected from his body and look awkward -- no matter how much he practices.

And I know this can be frustrating, but hang in there! You've had years of training so that your movements now feel natural and intuitive, he's only been doing this a couple of months. Plus, good leads are darn near impossible find -- even if he is a little rough around the edges.

[fascination]

okay, is this one of those self conscious guy things where he doesnt want to look feminine and won't extend fully? sort of holding back? just a question...sometimes getting to the WHY does a long way to solving the problem...I only ask b/c some of the guys I know who now have awesome styling had to sort of jump that hurdle first

[fascination]

oooh yeah the core thing too...what RI said...yep

[chica latina]

My amateur partner and I have moved up to Open American Smooth. Since I have an extensive ballet/jazz backgrond, I'm finding the transition to be very comfortable. However, my partner's arms are horrendous! We've been working on them for a few months and I do see some improvement, but I'm starting to feel like his lack of arm styling is going to drag me down. I don't want this to ruin our partnership, and I'm not sure if I'm just being hot-under-the-collar.

So, I guess here are my questions: How should we continue to work on his arms? If your partner is not improving, despite effort, what do you do? Stay partners? Move on?

I need some serious support! I feel really awful, but I'm very dedicated to dancing and I want my partner to be equally as skilled as I am.

LIR

Don't panic!!! How long has he been working on his arms? Is your coach working on this? Is he a man, it may be useful for him to get a visual of a man doing his exact moves and finding some that he is capable to do and not to look that bad until he develops it. It's not something you can learn in one day, it will take time... but remember that is just one of the elements about ballroom dancing (even though it could be very distractive) but not the deciding factor. I would be more worried about other things first: as posture, feet work, rhythmicallity, connection, musicality, etc...

I would suggest not to focus on that, so that you could give him time to learn it and enjoy his strenghts while you both improve.

Has people brought up the level difference between you two? If it's very obvious (not his arm style but his dancing ability), I will consider asking your coach about it. If he is not as expereinced but he is talented, he just needs time.... but if he is not very talented and isn't showing improvement... I will reconsider your options.

Good luck!

[saludas]

My amateur partner and I have moved up to Open American Smooth. Since I have an extensive ballet/jazz backgrond, I'm finding the transition to be very comfortable. However, my partner's arms are horrendous! We've been working on them for a few months and I do see some improvement, but I'm starting to feel like his lack of arm styling is going to drag me down. I don't want this to ruin our partnership, and I'm not sure if I'm just being hot-under-the-collar.

So, I guess here are my questions: How should we continue to work on his arms? If your partner is not improving, despite effort, what do you do? Stay partners? Move on?

I need some serious support! I feel really awful, but I'm very dedicated to dancing and I want my partner to be equally as skilled as I am.

LIR

Perhaps there are areas that you need to improve too?

Give the 'arm styling' a year or so - and then evaluate what you BOTH look like.

[DrDoug]

So, I guess here are my questions: How should we continue to work on his arms? If your partner is not improving, despite effort, what do you do?

Based on my experience, if you've worked on them, and they're still not improving, then the problem is not in his arms. Try working on his posture or how he's using his legs.

And as others have suggested, don't fuss. They're not your arms, so you don't have control over them.

[waltzgirl]

Is your coach a man? If not, I'd strongly suggest he take a few lessons from a male pro whose styling he likes. For me, taking some lessons with a female pro focusing specifically on arm styling made a tremendous difference.

[Laura]

I second the idea of seeing a male coach if you haven't already.

Also, you could both take a low-level ballet class together.

[Mr. Dance]

My frame and arm position is something my instructor has been very careful to emphasize with me since I started. I know my partner definately appreciates my attention to it because when I slip up and relax the wrong way or dont have the right position, everything is off and she cant feel my movements nearly as well. That's one of the first things on the first day of class that has been pushed, and still is with each one. Proper frame and arm position.

[NielsenE]

It can be a hard sell to some men; but see if he's willing/interested in taking a semester or two of a "Beginning Adult Ballet" class somewhere. I know it worked wonders for me and at least establishes an understanding of a lot of the terms/concepts other teachers will use to teach more "traditional" arm lines/flows for ballroom. Jazz might be an easier sell in some cases and offers similar benefits.

[Laura]

A number of ballroom dance studios in my area offer beginning ballet for ballroom dancrs. Perhaps there's something like that in your area? That way you'll be in a class of other ballroomers, and it might be easier to convince your partner to do it.

[ladyinred]

I would love to consistently take ballet together - however, my partner just doesn't have the *time* to do so. How does one conquer that?

[Ithink]

I'm sorry but I don't think this has been said in this thread yet and I feel it needs to be: I think the words "conquer", "horrendous" and "drag me down" are a bit negative (OK, I think they're a LOT negative!) for what seems like an issue that will simply take time. I mean, it sounds like you're saying that you can do no wrong and that any bad results you have will be your partner's fault. That is NOT a right attitude to have in a partnership you hope to be successful. You cannot lay all the blame on bad results on your partner for it is a 50/50 type deal. Yes, people say the man is seen as the more important member of the partnership and maybe that is true (although in open smooth work which you seem to be discussing, I don't see how it wouldn't be 50/50), but you don't have to show this superior attitude and act like your partner is gonna drag you down. Down where? To his depth of utter incompetense? I mean, I really take fault with such an attitude in a partnership.

I am certain that if your partner has seen videos of himself or talked to his coaches, he knows he has an arm issue and he's working on it. You say it's gotten better and I am sure it will continue to improve. The ballet suggestion is fine and dandy but if he only has time to practice his arms in doing his ballroom dancing and isn't able to committ time to ballet in addition to ballroom, then you just have to be understanding and patient and trust that it will take time for him to improve something that comes VERY unnaturally to most guys. I think you will be unhappy in a partnership with an attitude that you have and if you continue to have it and let it affect your view of the partnership then you should look for another partner. It's not fair to the guy you're dancing with now for you to expect these overnight improvements of him when it's clearly something that he's working on and knows about. A few months and he's already made improvements and that is something to commend not to complain about on a public forum. I feel sorry for the guy if he reads your post here:(

[pygmalion]

Oh thanks for saying that, I think. That's exactly what I saw in this thread, as well. If you have years of ballet training and you're anything like the ex-ballerinas I know, you have exceptional arm control. Exceptional. Years at the barre makes ballet arms and hands really beautiful -- reflexively, but not naturally, IMO. Many people don't have the advantage of having spent years at the barre in front of the mirrors.To expect your non-ballet ballroom partner to come up to that standard immediately is pretty unfair, IMO. You have a strength that he doesn't.

[Chris Stratton]

I would love to consistently take ballet together - however, my partner just doesn't have the *time* to do so. How does one conquer that?

Is smooth the style you should be dancing together? As a combination of many things, it will require a huge amount of time to get all of them right.

But on the arms... what type of person is your partner? The answer to that may determine how to address this issue. Is he a drill person, who will learn them by rote exercise? A flow person who will use them to extend body motion? A theory person who will want it explained? A feeling person who seeks the zone where it just happens? You know what the problem is, but to solve it, the three of you need to figure out the shape of a solution - in what way will his arms become a natural part of the dancing?

[fascination]

well i agree that OP sounded a bit harsh and that is probably from a lack of perspective brought on by being too close to the situation and too passionate about dancing...and it certainly isn't productive, but I am not going to cast a stone on this one as i myself have let similar things get the best of me , and this is a place to vent...still, it is very very hard even temporarily to be the weak link in a partnership...tho at least in the Am/Am situation it varies...like anything else, positive reinforcement yields more results IMO...and it is good to ponder upon our partner's strong suits...still, I wouldn't want to be overly harsh with Lady in Red unless it serves the purpose of showing her what it might feel like to be her partner...i wouldn't want her to feel too badly about posting her honest feelings even if they do seem a bit out of perspective