Have you ever felt depressed? [Archive]

SPratt74

05-09-2006, 10:34 PM

I was wondering if any of you ever felt depressed? I just started crying last night and cried for hours it seemed. I finally was able to cool it around 3 in the morning when I decided to turn on the television set only to find a character on a sitcom that I was watching was feeling the same way that I was feeling. It was weird, because she said everything that I was thinking. Then I realized that well... maybe I'm not alone (even though I know television is all make believe lol). And then I thought, maybe I was supposed to turn on that television set at that time, so I can learn a valuable lesson. I mean God does work in mysterious ways lol. But if I hadn't of cried that long, and if I hadn't of turned on that television set, then I'd probably still be miserable today.

But anyways, it was a huge relief that my sister called me today, because I was able to tell her what happened, and she told me not to get discouraged. I told her it was like I just didn't know how to get to the next level that I need to be at. I've taken care of other people so long that I've forgotten how to take care of myself, and I realized this after last night. I've also smiled pretty for so many people and just stayed strong in front of them that I realized that I can't do that any more. I have feelings too that I need people to listen to now. I need people (you know my family that type of thing) to listen to me instead of me being there mom, because I'm not their mom. I'm still growing and learning and I need help too, you know?

And the thing is that I haven't had a tough life. Sure I've had my moments like everyone, but it hasn't been anything horrible. In fact, I've done things, and been places, and have met people that people only wished they could do and see and meet. I've been very lucky in my life and very grateful for everything. But the thing that gets me is that there are very successful people in this world that get everything they want. And not all, but quite a few of them have things just handed to them on a silver platter. And then you start to wonder why you haven't had that happen to you in your life. Well, I realized that some ways I have. It's just that it's not the type of things that these people end up with, because we all have different lives and different paths that we need to be on. So, how selfish is that way of thinking anyhow?

Then I felt guilty for thinking those things today, so I stayed inside and ate chocolate and chips all day lol. Ok, I had healthy meals too, but you know. Sometimes you just need to snack lol. And I feel pretty good for being able to talk things out this time. I ended up in severe depression last year, because I wasn't able to stand up for myself. I felt that because I was the strong one, that I couldn't show any signs of emotions that way. The only ones that knew I was feeling that was my mom and a friend of mine that helped me get out of that state.

Well, you probably know more about me now than what you probably care to, but I realized today that depression or anything close to depression is a subject that should be talked about. But you all don't have to go into details like I did though. I'm just curious to know if any of you had ever felt the need to cry for hours that type of thing. Thanks! ;)

Laura

05-09-2006, 10:48 PM

I've been fighting depression in various levels of severity since I was in high school, so we're talking for about 25 years now. It can be really tough. For decades I thought that medication was "cheating," but a few years ago I decided that there really wasn't anything mentally or behaviorally wrong with me...nothing like not taking time for myself, or not sticking up for myself, or anything like that. No, it's just that my brain was a little hosed compared to normal happy people and needed some help.

I didn't want to go on Prozac or any of that stuff, though, so I found a doctor who works with a nutritionist on cases like mine. They put me on amino acid therapy and it took some time but it really turned my life around. Of course, sometimes I'll stop taking my aminos for a few months and I'll slowly slide down into the dark pit of a poorly-functioning serotonin and endorphin system, but I've gotten better at seeing the signs that I need to kick up my aminos again. So anyway, for me it's been good because when there really is something wrong, I've got the emotional strength to deal with it because it wasn't all wasted and spent on "false moods" due to poor brain chemistry.

I hope you find the solutions that work for you. For some people it's letting loose a stifled voice within. For others it's working through old issues that have let fester. For still others it's about other things. Good luck and good health to you!

jhpark

05-09-2006, 11:29 PM

I'm still in the mode of thinking that medications are 'cheating'. I have a couple of good friends who are or have been on medication, but I'm still being stubborn. I've found that regular exercise helps me a LOT. I typically suffer from blue moods, and they're not nearly as bad as they used to be -- I attribute that to doing cardio 4-5 times a week for 1/2 hour or so. (and I bet if I work on my diet, I'll actually start losing weight like I want to).

In fact, when I was sick last week and didn't exercise for over a week, I got depressed for the first time in months. I'm sure others have problems that aren't so easily addressed, but for me, exercise is good.

It's also nice to just be busy... but yeah..> Exercise is my easy way out. (now if I could just lose weight!)

spratt, I hope you won't mind my saying that the back of your head is very attractive. :)

icering

05-09-2006, 11:41 PM

Laura

05-09-2006, 11:56 PM

There have been times in my life when I could have provided amazing upbeat answers to all of those questions and still felt so badly that I wished my car would wreck going over a bridge. Fortunately I got the kind of help that I needed. I'm not saying that what you suggest won't work, because it will for some people. But for others, if it doesn't work, don't blame yourself or tell yourself that you failed, just try something different.

PasoDancer

05-10-2006, 01:53 AM

I'm still in the mode of thinking that medications are 'cheating'.
To each his/her own, unless you're his/her doctor.

I've battled depression since I was seventeen. So far, things are on an even keel, but who knows when The Other will pop out again. I guess my handle should have been "time bomb". I don't like to think of myself as that way, but I'm too far into this thing to think that I couldn't have a cold snap. That's always the problem- people meet or like me when I'm "normal", and then THAT happens. It's rather embarassing.

It's actually quite stupid- I'm by nature a hermit/recluse type because of this, and what do I do but pick the most social lifestyle of ballroom dancing. Not smart.

PasoDancer

05-10-2006, 01:59 AM

I should add that depression is just depression. Contrary to what ANYONE says, expert or no, it's very fickle and tricky, and for each person, the WHOLE THING, from diagnosis to treatment, to life with it, is different. The cause isn't always obvious- and, for that matter, there isn't even always a "real cause"- (but there usually is- it just hides VERY well sometimes).

It isn't just for the insecure, the paranoid, the weak, or whatever people would like to dismiss it as- it isn't trivial, and it isn't stupid. It can be not only mentally devastating, but physically, as well.

There's so much that could be said about it, yet it's already been said somewhere or another. It's very redundant to echo "you aren't alone", but there's strength in numbers- unless you're Cybil.... (ok, bad joke...)

Shooshoo

05-10-2006, 02:00 AM

But the thing that gets me is that there are very successful people in this world that get everything they want. And not all, but quite a few of them have things just handed to them on a silver platter.

You really can't tell if they're happy or not depressed, can you?

I have been one of the lucky ones who don't get depressed often, maybe for half a day or so. I can't judge cause I know there are people who get really depressed and I could never understand. There is clinical depression which is another issue.

But for the daily mood swings, I think one can work on it.
I've found that regular exercise helps me a LOT.
I've been exercising regularly all my life, maybe that's one of the reasons?
Whenever I feel bad, I think of worse things which happens to other people so I can appreciate what I have.
I try to connect with people I love and the ones who love me. A hug always helps.
I try to take up new 'fun' activities. Keeping busy and learning something new challenges your mind.

Then I felt guilty for thinking those things today, so I stayed inside and ate chocolate and chips all day lol.

Don't feel guilty. Chocolate is good for you :) .

jenn

05-10-2006, 03:18 AM

I was wondering if any of you ever felt depressed?
...
I'm just curious to know if any of you had ever felt the need to cry for hours that type of thing. Thanks! ;)

sure...i think its sometimes necessary to feel this way. i dont know if i would call it depression for myself; to me, its a clinical term that requires professional attention. but feeling blue or sad every now and then, yes indeed. in fact, your post is quite timely, spratt.
...ive been feeling "blue" for the past few days and i find that crying is one very natural way to release it. its not my favorite outlet (lol results in puffy eyes the next day!), but i tend to be emotional. btw, none of what im referring to is related to the topic of women's hormones.

i dont think ive had a difficult life either, but i think that sadness is necessary in life. if it didnt exist, we wouldnt experience joy. at least thats the way i see things. we need one extreme in order to have the other.

i hope you feel better...it will pass. things come in waves...ride it and see where it takes you. =)

Shooshoo

05-10-2006, 03:22 AM

but i think that sadness is necessary in life.

true, but there is a difference between sadness and depression, don't you think?

I see depression more that you don't want to go on. A feeling of heaviness.
I see sadness more a result of disappointment. This I believe is healthy to express cause it's part of your emotions.

SPratt74

05-10-2006, 04:37 AM

not anymore...you have to work hard at being depressed, I don't mess with that state anymore. If you don't wanna be depressed...just stop. Depression is nothing but a state that you have to work at, like lower your shoulders, change your breathing and all that. If you were to stand up straight with a big ass grin on your face its impossible for you to get depressed no matter how hard you tried, you would have to switch back to the old state. The only way you can get depressed mentally is by focusing on a problem...now why the hell would you want to do that, I say 20% on the problem 80% on the solution if I throw water on you you won't be depressed anymore because I change what you were thinking about. Its that simple....I can't even remember what depressed feel like...lol. Now I am about to share something with you that costs a lot of money. Since I am in the world of self-help and consulting I will give you a free assignment. Everyday you wake up I want you to aanswer all these question:

1. What am I happy about in my life right now?
What about that makes me happy? How does that make me feel?

2. What am I excited about in my life right now?
What about that makes me excited? How does that make me feel?

3. What am I proud about in my life right now?
What about that makes me proud? How does that make me feel?

4. What am I grateful about in my life right now?
What about that makes me grateful? How does that make me feel?

5. What am I enjoying most in my life right now?
What about that do I enjoy? How does that make me feel?

6. What am I committed to in my life right now?
What about that makes me committed? How does that make me feel?

7. Who do I love? Who loves me?
What about that makes me loving? How does that make me feel?

print this out and answer all the question every morning. Anybody who is interested can obviously do the same, if you do this for 7 days I guarenteed you will see a huge break through in your life...you will be happier than ever. This will also make you a better dancer as well :) (for real, i'm serious)

You know that I actually looked at this thread last night and saw your post, and I started to cry. I couldn't answer anything, because I felt guilty for thinking about myself. Those are questions as to which make you think about yourself, and the word that kept going through my mind was selfish for thinking that way.

I didn't want to think of myself as depressed, but I came to realize today that maybe I am. I don't even want to leave my house. I'm lucky that I get up and take a shower at this point. (Of course it helps that I am overly obsessed about being clean lol.) And the thing that scares me is that I feel better thinking that I get to stay in more than if I were to go some place, and I'm not this type of person.

I think though that a lot of it is that I'm just so burnt out with a lot of things. I don't know why but I know one thing is that I hate the computer. I've been in the field for a little over ten years now, and it's to the point that I don't even want to get on the computer to check my e-mail. This leaves me in a bad situation though, because I am attending school for computers. I've only got today and next week left, but I don't even want to go. I can't bring myself to get out of my house to go to school even. My mom said that I don't have to continue that way, because she knows I've already got my degrees and has worked in the field long enough. But now it's like what now? How do I go to the next step and to do so without being selfish?

It's nice to know that I'm not alone in this matter though. I didn't expect any detailed reports from anyone, because I know it's an issue that people can judge quickly without knowing anything about the subject. I too though have been dealing with this issue since I was 14, but it's never gotten this bad. Ok it did last year as to which I was given a twelve step program to where I had to work on myself. I was supposed to do things slowly and when I felt like I could do them. I thought I was doing them pretty well until this hit me. And it's like what someone else said about how it's embarrassing to go through this when people like you for being normal.

Well, I'm not normal and I'm not perfect. I know this. I've known this all my life, but man I've become a great actress though by showing everyone else that I have no problems what so ever. And that's the thing. It's like, if I admit that I am this way to everyone else, would they still like me? Would they still be able to count on me? I don't want them to think that I can't handle things. But then again, maybe I can't right now, and this is God's way of telling me to cool things. I don't know.

Shooshoo

05-10-2006, 05:43 AM

Well, I'm not normal and I'm not perfect. I know this. I've known this all my life, but man I've become a great actress though by showing everyone else that I have no problems what so ever. And that's the thing. It's like, if I admit that I am this way to everyone else, would they still like me? Would they still be able to count on me? I don't want them to think that I can't handle things. But then again, maybe I can't right now, and this is God's way of telling me to cool things. I don't know.

Everyone has problems SPratt74.
Some people will always like, some will not and never will, no matter what.
Just stay with the ones that like you and you like.

AzureDreamer

05-10-2006, 06:22 AM

How do I go to the next step and to do so without being selfish?

Stop trying to not be selfish!!!! Think about what is best for yourself; do what is best for yourself. Very frequently, you'll find that other people -are- what are important for you... that you want to do things to please them, because of what they mean to you. Altruism and selflessness is a curse; there is nothing better than hearing, "I want to do this because I want to do it and its important to me" or even "I am doing this for you, because you are important to me."

but its that personalization... that sense that it really means something to you that makes a difference, both to yourself and to the people around you.

bordertangoman

05-10-2006, 06:24 AM

My own stratagies for dealing with depression are:

1. To get motivated: start by doing something small and acheivable9 A friend once told me that her grandmother had given her the advice that "action precedes motivation" . I have found this a useful thing to remember

2. Go for long walks. Exercise helps and exercise that hoes the potential for being enjoyable is better still.

3. Watch The Simpsons.

4. I've done a group course on Cognitive Therapy approaches to depression and I've got a few self- help books that, when I remember, I refer to. Main aims are to change thinking habits ("all or nothing" focussing on negative etc.)

5. Dance tango; it doesn't change anything but its an escape for a few hours.

6. Not to deal with it or try and change it: don't try and pretend to anyone that I'm feeling happy or cheerful when I'm feeling crap; just accept that's the way I am at the moment.

fascination

05-10-2006, 07:41 AM

let me add that being depressed and having clinical depression are two different things, and so is grief, one symptom of which can be depression....lots of distinctions and I will just echo that the way one manages one is not the way one neccessarily handles the other...if you are depressed over a lengthy period of time with, particularly with no loss issue to pinpoint and with very little variance in intensity, it is time to go to the Dr.

fascination

05-10-2006, 07:44 AM

Stop trying to not be selfish!!!! Think about what is best for yourself; do what is best for yourself. Very frequently, you'll find that other people -are- what are important for you... that you want to do things to please them, because of what they mean to you. Altruism and selflessness is a curse; there is nothing better than hearing, "I want to do this because I want to do it and its important to me" or even "I am doing this for you, because you are important to me."

but its that personalization... that sense that it really means something to you that makes a difference, both to yourself and to the people around you.let me also add that being selfish is often the most unselfish thing to do...b/c when we never take care of ourselves and cultivate our own power and self-respect and joy, we have no energy or sincerity for doing for others because we are too bummed...its often called compassion fatigue....it is a loss...a grief....when I am never on my own list, I start to miss my own life and my own happiness....when we have some of that it actually makes us more available to others, rather than less

Twilight_Elena

05-10-2006, 07:46 AM

Though I haven't been diagnosed - I am incredibly good at fooling psychologists into thinking I'm perfectly okay, not to mention I really don't like psychologists - I have concluded I'm suffering from chronic depression (perhaps manic depression is a better term for it). Clinical? I dunno. Does that mean meds? Meds make me think I'm defective. As in, return to cashier for refund.
It's very weird, the fact that a person who is like me would think of pursuing a career in dancing. I think it might have something to do with that, too. Face it instead of going around it? That kind of thing.
SPratt74, I have no idea whether you're depressed or not. I think you are. While I'm no counselor, what I try to do to help myself get through this is try to realise how I feel and find out why. And whatever I say or do, like think I'm crap, I try to realise why I'm saying it, why I believe it. Is it something someone said? Is it my parents? Is it school? Whatever it is, I try to deal with it. I don't shake anything off without analysing first.

T_E

fascination

05-10-2006, 07:57 AM

TE...true meds arent always the way to go....however....if you had an imabalance of your thyroid or you had diabetes, wouldn't you take the med that would repair the imbalance?...it is no different with some types of depression, some types cannot be talked out of...and the problem though manifesting itself mentally and emotionally is a pysiological one that needs to be treated in the very same way, with medication that restores a balance...many folk can't even begin to look at the depsression and what may trigger it without first being on a med....again, there is no simplistic answer....but going on meds certainly doesn't mean one is defective in some shameful way any more than being nearsighted does

Twilight_Elena

05-10-2006, 08:21 AM

fascination

05-10-2006, 08:38 AM

jhpark

05-10-2006, 08:58 AM

*Sometimes* the best way out of feeling depressed is to do something for another person. Sometimes it's good to get distracted from whatever it is that's bringing you down...

On the topic of fooling everyone into thinking there's no problem. Some people just have this ESP where they have a nagging suspicion there really is a problem. And you may well have people who are willing to be real friends, and who would support you very well if you told them that you were dealing with some depression or blue moods or whatever they are. It can be very *******ing to share your struggles with someone and experience that.

Obviously there is a risk that the person will be overwhelmed or uncomfortable or whatever, and it's horrible if someone you trust to be helpful ends up running away. But of the 5 or so people I've really trusted over the past 8 years, they've all been incredibly supportive.

Hope you feel better...

cornutt

05-10-2006, 11:13 AM

well again, some doctors are too eager....but there are some very definate distinctions between different sorts of depression and the need for meds in many cases is legitimate and my point was that the problem is often physiological and therefore merits a med that treats it thus...that is all...

Hear hear. Fascination is one of the few people on this thread who knows what she's talking about. Time for some tough talk:

* There is a difference between just being sad or down and clinical depression. Ordinary sadness or "blues" are a reaction to events happening around you. It dissipates when your circumstances change, or as time passes. Clinical depression, on the other hand, is a neurological problem. It may have a psychological trigger, but the disorder itself is neurological. The idea that you can just talk yourself out of clinical depression is hogwash. You cannot "snap out of it" any more than you can "snap out" of pneumonia or a heart attack. It is not a mood or a state of mind. It is a neurtransmitter malfunction, whose root cause is as yet unknown.

* The primary symptom of clinical depression is having sadness or blues that is unrelated to what is happening around you. Clinical depression may be triggered by a bad event, but unlike ordinary sadness, it persists, and maybe even gets worse, as time passes. Clinical depression can sometimes be triggered by a good event, if it has the side effect of stirring bad feelings in the mind of the sufferer.

* Clinical depression does not get better by itself. Trying to ignore it does not help. Trying to distract oneself from it does not help. It has to be treated. Some people successfully treat themselves, but the percentage of afflicted people wo do so is small. Many who set out to do so wind up trying to self-medicate with illicit drugs, which has a success rate vanishingly close to zero.

* Clinical depression is a self-reinforcing disease. One of its effects is that it dis-motivates the afflicted person from getting help. Feeling guility about having the problem, or wanting to get help, is a symptom. Feeling inadequate or "deformed" or "defective" about it is a symptom. It's not the normal emotional reaction to health problems. People with heart problems don't feel "defective". It's the disease talking.

Now, there are various ways to treat depression. Some people are treated via exercise, diet supplements, and so forth. For some people, that works. For some, it doesn't. The latter group need meds. There's no other way. Taking meds does not make you "defective" any more than taking drugs to, say, treat a chronic high blood pressure.

I suffer from clinical depression, and I take meds. Does that shock you? Don't let it. I can tell you from experience that the drugs available today are worlds better than what was available 25-30 years ago. The drugs that are available now are not "happy pills". They do not stop you from feeling normal, rational emotions that result from the events happening around you. On the contrary, by taking care of the neurotransmitter problem, they allow your emotions to react normally. If you are taking the meds and your pet dies, you will be sad. That's normal. What you will not do is go off on an hours-long crying jag because you spilled your coffee or broke your shoelace or couldn't find anything to wear this morning.

Also: Clinical depression is often associated with generalized anxiety syndrome. No one is sure why. Some anti-depressant meds are better for treating anxiety than others. This is one of the things that a doctor wil consider. There's lots of meds out there now. The first one that everyone always thinks of is Prozac; that's still prescribed some, but it's actually kind of old technology now. So one need not fear them. Now, it's possible that for any given person, the first med tried either won't work, or will have bad side effects. So some experimentation may be necessary. And, unfortunately, there exists a small number of sufferers who are not helped by any of the good meds and have to take other things with worse side effects. Fortunately, that's a small percentage now.

(One other note: Recent neurology indicates that bipolar disorder, or manic-depressiveness, is really a different problem from manic-depression and needs to be treated differently. Most anti-depressants do not work for bipolar, and may make it worse. The word is still getting out to some doctors that they need to take care to distinguish between the two and not take a one-size-fits-all approach to treatment.)

So, SPratt74 or anyone else who wants to talk about it, PM me. I offer you my support.

Laura

05-10-2006, 11:15 AM

A few notes here...

Cornutt, your summary is awesome. Hear hear!

When I was at my lowest point, I developed agoraphobia. I would not leave the house except to go to the grocery store and to Pilates and dance lessons. I didn't want to go to parties, I didn't want to see people, and most of all I didn't want people to see me.

As far as diagnosis goes, my doctor took this incredible medical history. She asked about my eating habits, what kinds of things I craved, about alcohol and drug use, about my family's history on these things (especially my parents). There was about 12 pages of questions that I filled out, some multiple choice, some short answer. Then we talked. She always likes to start with the most gentle treatment possible, so she had me try taking the amino acid L-tryptophan. This is available without a prescription in health food stores. I take a gram (two capsules) every morning on an empty stomach. L-tryptophan is the amino acid that your brain uses to make serotonin, a mood-regulating neurotransmitter that some people who are chronically depressed are lacking in. Basically, given the precursors, the brain just doesn't make enough and so you get stuck in a black mood after a period of too much stress or other trauma, and talking about it and doing other mental exercises just doesn't help. Tryptophan ocurrs naturally in pumpkin seeds and bananas, and is high in conventionally-raised turkeys because of the extra hormones in their feed. People who have a low serotonin cycle tend to have a family history of alcohol abuse (although they may not be abusing it themselves), strong cravings for sweet starchy foods like baked goods, tendency toward compulsive eating later in the day, strong reaction to Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD, caused by lack of light in the winter), extreme sensitivity to emotional pain, and a bunch of other symptoms, including tendency toward bulemia (me, as a teenager) and/or anorexia nervosa.

I'm not saying that this is what SPratt74 should do, or that she should experiment without supervision, but am simply relating my story in the hopes to de-stigmatise the idea that people can take something to help them get to the point where they can actually deal with the emotional issues tied up in the depression. My "meds" are really just nutritional supplements, I'm not on a prescription drug like Prozac or Zoloft -- although these have helped some people I have known, too. Nutrition and moods are very closely tied, I suggest the books "The Diet Cure" and/or "The Mood Cure" by Julia Ross for more information. I read "The Diet Cure" and was so impressed that I became a patient of Ross's for a while, and that's how I finally got out of the depressive agoraphobic state I was in.

cornutt

05-10-2006, 11:24 AM

Laura: Good for you. I'm happy to hear that you found something that worked for you. I've had all kinds of diet things forced on me for one thing or another when I was growing up, and none of it ever did a bit of good. All it did was make eating really inconvenient. So I told my doctor not to even bring it up. :p

One thing that you hear a lot about is an herb called St. John's wort. Unfortunately, I saw a couple of studies on it last year that shows it has no effect.

bordertangoman

05-10-2006, 11:31 AM

Diabetes can be diagnosed easily. Depression, on the other hand, is up to your doctor to decide whether you need meds. Not to mention many doctors are all too eager to stuff you with pills.

T_E

I disagree : my doctor asked me if I thought I was clinically depressed and wanted to take some drugs. I don't know what it means

Laura

05-10-2006, 11:33 AM

One thing that you hear a lot about is an herb called St. John's wort. Unfortunately, I saw a couple of studies on it last year that shows it has no effect.
I was taking it for a while, and wasn't sure that it was doing anything. I can definitely tell that the tryptophan works!

Some people respond to the St. John's Wort -- a guy I used to work with found it effective.

It really is all about finding a health care professional who you can really work with, who will really try to figure out what is best to try, and then what the alternatives are. Treating depression is not one-pill-fits-all.

cornutt

05-10-2006, 11:37 AM

Treating depression is not one-pill-fits-all.

True, that. Very much so. I just don't want people to be scared off of the meds option because it isn't "natural", or because of myths that meds will turn into a zombie. But if something else works, gravy.

Laura

05-10-2006, 11:38 AM

I disagree : my doctor asked me if I thought I was clinically depressed and wanted to take some drugs. I don't know what it means
My cynical self says it means that your doctor has gotten some deal from a drug company. I don't know how it works in the UK, but in the US the pharmeceutical companies wine and dine the doctors like you would not believe to get them to prescribe the drugs.

Did your doctor sit you down and go through all the various symptoms of depression and see how many of them you thought you had, and how you tend to deal with them? If not, I'd be skeptical. There are many causes of depression, ranging from sudden trauma to supressed issues to neurotransmitter imbalance to environmental factors -- mostly it's combinations of all of these. If this doctor was just like "feel depressed? want drugs?" then it doesn't sound like they were interested in taking the time or effort required for getting to the root of the situation.

Laura

05-10-2006, 11:46 AM

I just don't want people to be scared off of the meds option because it isn't "natural", or because of myths that meds will turn into a zombie.
I think one thing that people really need to do is ask a lot of questions and develop an awareness of what is happening to them as they try medications. Once someone understands the desired effect, and what too much or too little or just wrong feels like, then they can monitor what effects the treatment -- be it dietary, prescription, or whatever -- is having. Taking one Zoloft doesn't turn someone into a zombie. It doesn't just happen overnight. But if the patient taking something really tries to be self-aware, and doesn't just take the doctor's word as gospel law to be followed without question, then they can notice that something isn't working right and ask for an adjustment, or a change. And sometimes it takes a while to find the right thing -- so people give up after trying one thing that was perhaps too strong or too weak or not targeting the right neurotransmitter cycle. Or, worse yet, people think because their doctor prescribed it, it must be right, and so suffer through side-effects that could be alleviated by trying a different drug, or dosage.

fascination

05-10-2006, 12:00 PM

thank you cornutt and laura

cl5814

05-10-2006, 12:04 PM

true, but there is a difference between sadness and depression, don't you think?

I see depression more that you don't want to go on. A feeling of heaviness.
I see sadness more a result of disappointment. This I believe is healthy to express cause it's part of your emotions.

I have had some depression periods in my life as well. Life gets to you sometimes; especially living alone (no family around) in a foreign country.

From what i researched and were told, the difference between sadness and depression is 2 weeks. If after 2 weeks you are still sad, then you might want to look into depression symptions and see if that fits. If you are truly ok again in less than 2 weeks, then you have just been sad. I guess it is one way of measuring........
My mom read a wonderful book about diet and depression; something like ' be naturally depression free '. The book claims you can do wonders with just eating correctly, as has already been mentioned by another poster.

cl5814

05-10-2006, 12:18 PM

Depression, on the other hand, is up to your doctor to decide whether you need meds. Not to mention many doctors are all too eager to stuff you with pills.

T_E

Unfortunately, this was my experience as well. I have learned to be careful to whom i say what if i just feel down. I too have acted (still do) "always happy" in front of selected people. Some people are just too paranoid that if you are just feeling a bit down for a day or two (without them knowing what really are going on in your life) you can end up in places that are no where appropriate for the situation. Maybe the paranoid people have just never been sad for longer than a day......lucky people to be that happy in life.

Meds take a long time to start working in any case. It is about 4-6 weeks, right ?

Laura

05-10-2006, 12:25 PM

Meds take a long time to start working in any case. It is about 4-6 weeks, right ?
I think it depends on what someone's exact neurotransmitter issues are, and how effective the particular treatment is for them. I'm lucky in that I can start to feel relief within three days (I also have learned what the early signs of relief feel like), but it really takes a few weeks for me to stabilize. Dealing with this stuff is tricky, and mental health issues are so stigmatized that a lot of people just won't or can't deal with them -- even when they are under care! It's not like setting a broken bone, after all.

The serotonin cycle is the most commonly acted upon by various supplemental and drug treatments. However, people can also have issues with their endorphin or other systems that don't respond to the serotonin-targetted treatments, that all contribute to a low-functioning or "depressed" mental and emotional state.

Purr

05-10-2006, 12:28 PM

If you're suffering from depession, the best thing to do is to get to your family doctor.

I was diagnosed with depression in 1998, and my doctor prescribed paxil. While the side effects of the medicine were bad, especially the weight gain, it did help me get through the day. I also went to therapy sessions with a counselor. When the circumstances contibuting to the depression improved, I was able to, under my doctor's supervision, go off the medicine in 2001. Now, I eat better, exercise regularly, and find things to do with my time (like dancing) so I don't sit at home moping. I also have a much better support system of friends and family around me than I did back then. While I can't say that I'm "cured", I'm in a much better place than I was then, and I recognize when an episode may be happening so I can do something about it.

cl5814

05-10-2006, 12:43 PM

I disagree : my doctor asked me if I thought I was clinically depressed and wanted to take some drugs. I don't know what it means

You said "asked me" and so i say....

I would say it is important to keep the initial consultation with your doctor just between "you" and well, the doctor. No friends, co-workers, family or other influences should be welcome in that discussion. Other people can too easily get involved into saying things how *they* think you feel and act. Take someone with you to the consulting room but leave them in the front office, at least initially.

Anybody used any group therapy for depression ? Specific group meetings set up by mostly depression group, others with a history of depressoin but free of symptoms due to successful treatment and/or professionals.

icering

05-10-2006, 01:40 PM

You know that I actually looked at this thread last night and saw your post, and I started to cry. I couldn't answer anything, because I felt guilty for thinking about myself. Those are questions as to which make you think about yourself, and the word that kept going through my mind was selfish for thinking that way.

Everything starts with you, if you can't answer the question just a a 'could" what could you feel good about today?, what could you be greatful for? If you can't make yourself feel good, how are you gonna make someone else feel good.

Twilight_Elena

05-10-2006, 02:18 PM

This thread has gotten me thinking. First of all. I wish there was some sort of physical test that could prove your neurotransmitters are wonky. That way I would feel better about the idea of medication.
Secondly. I really don't trust doctors. Don't ask me why, I haven't met a doctor yet who has inspired my trust, and considering their profession that means something. I also have this personal... issue, so to speak. I feel guilty getting help from other people. Please, ask my mate how many times I tell him I feel guilty that I'm whining to him about my problems.
All that considered, I don't really want to go to a doctor or counsellor. And I don't think I'm depressed anyway. I'm just... I dunno. In a tough period, I guess.

T_E

SPratt74

05-10-2006, 02:51 PM

Everything starts with you, if you can't answer the question just a a 'could" what could you feel good about today?, what could you be greatful for? If you can't make yourself feel good, how are you gonna make someone else feel good.

You can be grateful for a lot of things and still be depressed. And you can be good to a lot of people when you've been an actress so long that you can fool them... including yourself.

Well, I didn't realize that I would get four pages worth of discussion today! I was scared to write when I did in fear I guess, but it's so nice to know about options and how some things worked for some people etc. And that's good for me, because I do take lists of questions to my doctor when I go in to see her, so I can ask her about things.

But let me get through your posts, because I do plan on responding to them. One question though, do you think that I should tell my professors what's going on? I just haven't wanted to leave the house or anything. I mean I don't want them to know my history, because they don't need to know everything, but at the same time, then maybe they will know that I just don't mean to skip class that type of thing. What do you guys think?

AzureDreamer

05-10-2006, 05:55 PM

there are some very definate distinctions between different sorts of depression and the need for meds in many cases is legitimate

It may be worth also investigating a more holistic approach to issues like this; things like a balanced diet, massage, yoga/pilates/flexibility classes, aromatherapy, and a basic fitness plan go a long way to getting things sorted out. Have a complete allergy check. I think there is a lot to be said for healthy lifestyle.

I have absolute confidence in people to screw their bodies up when they are stressed, or eating poorly, or mildly allergic to something and it causes just enough of a reaction so they don't sleep well at night.

I wouldn't rule out medicine, but there may be more than one way to approach the problem. Sometimes I feel like drugs just treat symptoms, rather than addressing causes. Sometimes you want to take two aspirin... but other times you want to stop hitting your head against the wall in the first place.

I think one thing that people really need to do is ask a lot of questions and develop an awareness of what is happening to them as they try medications.

yeah, excellent point.

Laura

05-10-2006, 06:15 PM

First of all. I wish there was some sort of physical test that could prove your neurotransmitters are wonky.
Medicine is kind of a deductive science, and also an art. The reason why craving sugary starchy things like baked goods when coupled with depression is considered a sign of a low serotonin cycle is because the dump of sugar into your system causes a small serotonin dump. So, for a while, there is more serotonin loose in your brain. That's what the "feel good" rush is that comes from eating some cookies or cake when you're feeling low. Similarly for chocolate -- the theobromine in chocolate stimulates the endorphin system in the brain. Now obviously having sweets and/or chocolate every now and then when you feel blue every so often does not indicate a full-on neurotransmitter problem. But a repeated history of compulsive emotional eating coupled with long term periods of feeling down does indicate issues that go far beyond simple "willpower."

Anyway, when this was all explained to me it made so much sense -- so many pieces fit together. It wasn't like I was being told to swallow a pill and accept it on faith.

Secondly. I really don't trust doctors. Don't ask me why, I haven't met a doctor yet who has inspired my trust, and considering their profession that means something.
I grew up going to military doctors who were more concerned with patching people up so they could get back to the flight line than actual healing. My dad got involved with uppers (benzadrine) without even knowing it -- they were handed out with vitamins every morning by the corpsman (doctor) on the submarine he was serving on. So, I have a long outstanding distrust of doctors. Especially in light of some of the more dismal aspects of the US healthcare system (or lack thereof). There are good doctors, though, although I have no idea how to find one. It's complete and utter luck that I found mine.

I just realized that I've been going on about neurotransmitters and serotonin as if everyone knew what it was.

Serotonin is the "feel good" chemical in your brain. It affects many things, including satiety and sleep cycles.

icering

05-10-2006, 08:09 PM

You can be grateful for a lot of things and still be depressed. And you can be good to a lot of people when you've been an actress so long that you can fool them... including yourself.

Well, I didn't realize that I would get four pages worth of discussion today! I was scared to write when I did in fear I guess, but it's so nice to know about options and how some things worked for some people etc. And that's good for me, because I do take lists of questions to my doctor when I go in to see her, so I can ask her about things.

But let me get through your posts, because I do plan on responding to them. One question though, do you think that I should tell my professors what's going on? I just haven't wanted to leave the house or anything. I mean I don't want them to know my history, because they don't need to know everything, but at the same time, then maybe they will know that I just don't mean to skip class that type of thing. What do you guys think?

depends on whats important to you...whether you tell them or now...I doubt it will change your grade or erase any tally marks by your name. But it could though...with a doctors note

cornutt

05-10-2006, 08:32 PM

One question though, do you think that I should tell my professors what's going on? I just haven't wanted to leave the house or anything. I mean I don't want them to know my history, because they don't need to know everything, but at the same time, then maybe they will know that I just don't mean to skip class that type of thing. What do you guys think?

My take: They don't need to know all the details. Just tell them that you've been ill, or that you are having personal problems, or some such.

cornutt

05-10-2006, 08:39 PM

It may be worth also investigating a more holistic approach to issues like this; things like a balanced diet, massage, yoga/pilates/flexibility classes, aromatherapy, and a basic fitness plan go a long way to getting things sorted out. Have a complete allergy check. I think there is a lot to be said for healthy lifestyle.
yeah, excellent point.

I'm afraid I will have to take issue with some of this. Yes, maintaining a good general state of health is important, but it is not proof against all disorders. Statements like this carry a bit of a vibe of "it's your own fault that you're sick, because you don't live the right way". We're not talking smoking and lung cancer here. I'm afraid that trying to drastically alter one's lifestyle can become simply an attempt to ignore the problem.

As for things like aromatherapy: If you enjoy nice scents, feel free. But anyone who tells you that enjoying nice scents will cure all manner of diseases is engaging in quackery.

Laura

05-10-2006, 08:50 PM

SPratt74, aren't you near the end of the school year? Is it just a matter of making yourself go to class a few more times and then you're done with it and all this pressure and angst will start to lift?

If so, then one thing to think about is how many classes you can miss. Some professors don't care, some take attendance, some won't lecture on anything new for the rest of the semester, some will tell you something the last day that ends up on the test. Only you can evaluate your professors on this, but I figure a whole school year has gone by so you should have good feel for this by now.

If there's a class that in all honesty doesn't require your presence for a session or two, and you don't feel like going, then don't go. You don't have to tell your professors anything, just don't show up. People simply just don't show up for classes all the time. I'm thinking that some of what is tying you up in knots about this is your sense of loyalty and worries of being selfish. Still, maybe giving yourself permission to skip a class will help, because it won't be something you're doing because you can't leave the house, but because you've looked into the class situation and decided you just needed to give yourself a day off.

Or, here's another idea...you're having troubles leaving the house, for whatever agoraphobic/socially anxious reasons you have. What about if you make a deal with yourself, you will go to class because you're so close to being done for the year. But you'll cut yourself a break somewhere else...you won't pile on a bunch of errands and responsiblities, you'll just go to class, get your education, and come home.

I don't know if any of this will work for you, I'm just brainstorming here.

Laura

05-10-2006, 08:54 PM

I'm afraid that trying to drastically alter one's lifestyle can become simply an attempt to ignore the problem.
And on top of that, say someone puts themself on a program to eat right, get healthy, get organized, get exercise etc etc. They could end up piling on a bunch of new stresses, and if they eat the wrong thing or miss a workout they get sucked into telling themself that they are failure etc etc.

Not that exercise and all that isn't good for you and won't help some, but if someone is as far gone as I was and didn't even want to leave the house, then they might not even be able to cope with starting and keeping up with all that until they get a degree of relief from the major depressive effects. I could tell I was starting to get better because I started wanting to go on hikes with my husband, or to the gym, or to do other things besides lay on the sofa watching TV. Heck, I could barely even get up the energy to read for a while...not a problem now.

jenn

05-10-2006, 10:42 PM

SPratt74

05-10-2006, 11:29 PM

Well, just so you all know I finally made a list of ten things that I like to do. Ok, it ended up to be twelve things, but still... at least the list was made, and I do feel better having made the list. Although, I had to roll my eyes a bit, because I felt like a little kid wrote the list lol.

Anyways, I realized that some of these things have been long time passions of mine that I've wanted to do for years now even though they still feel somewhat silly to me like things you wouldn't consider as a real job that type of thing. But what I decided to do was to volunteer at one of the places in town, so I gave them my name in case they needed any help in the future.

I then decided to contact a friend that I have known for years about a possible job in a place that he manages. I acted like a college kid, so that I didn't seem desperate that type of thing lol. He knows me though, so he knows how I work etc. And he's been trying to get me to attned the events that he manages anyways. So, maybe he might not mind if I work at these events or something, you know?

I guess that until I started reading all of your posts, I was feeling guilty about asking for help. So, I felt as though I was at a dead end. Truth is that I know many people in my city from business owners to the mayor even, because I am on a city board. I keep in contact with them almost daily if not weekly, but have always been afraid to ask for their help.

Now though I realize that maybe I should learn how to count on them like how they've been able to count on me. And to me that shouldn't be considered being selfish right, because I have helped them out. Plus... now I can see what kind of person they are if they are willing to help me out either by just giving me advice to a direction or whatever, you know? I mean, that's not being selfish is it?

Laura

05-11-2006, 12:49 AM

Wow, this is great! And not selfish!

AzureDreamer

05-11-2006, 12:13 PM

Statements like this carry a bit of a vibe of "it's your own fault that you're sick, because you don't live the right way". We're not talking smoking and lung cancer here.

Fault? It doesn't matter who is "at fault".... no one cares.

This seems like a refusal to take personal responsibility for your life. It doesn't matter how you got into a situation, there is almost always something you can do to improve your position.

I'm afraid that trying to drastically alter one's lifestyle can become simply an attempt to ignore the problem.

Just ignoring problem a problem you can't solve is probably the healthiest thing in most cases. Not every problem needs a "solution" either; a lot of them become non-problems when you get a bit of distance from them, and they become non-personal.

As for things like aromatherapy: If you enjoy nice scents, feel free. But anyone who tells you that enjoying nice scents will cure all manner of diseases is engaging in quackery.

I think you are looking at it the wrong way... don't think about it as treating specific symptoms; think of it generally improving your quality of life, increase your sense of well-being, reduce "stress"... and that gets your body to a point where it can heal itself.

And on top of that, say someone puts themself on a program to eat right, get healthy, get organized, get exercise etc etc. They could end up piling on a bunch of new stresses, and if they eat the wrong thing or miss a workout they get sucked into telling themself that they are failure etc etc.

To me that sounds like a caution to be realistic in what you do... not a reason not to do it.

SPratt74

05-11-2006, 12:44 PM

Fault? It doesn't matter who is "at fault".... no one cares.

Actually, it does matter whose fault it is. Sometimes it is your own fault why you got to your situation, and then what? Sometimes it's not your own fault and then what? But either way you have to be careful as to saying no one cares, because it's the not caring that can lead people that are in depression no matter how they got there to think about death.

This seems like a refusal to take personal responsibility for your life. It doesn't matter how you got into a situation, there is almost always something you can do to improve your position.

I don't agree with this either. In my case, I have taken responsibility for everything I've done in my life and in other lives that I did not need to take the heat for. You need to be careful how you say things, because you can't generalize everyone into one category.

Just ignoring problem a problem you can't solve is probably the healthiest thing in most cases. Not every problem needs a "solution" either; a lot of them become non-problems when you get a bit of distance from them, and they become non-personal.

How is ignoring any problem you can't solve the healthiest thing to do in most cases? In my life there is such a thing that I believe in called karma. Also, if you don't take care of something now, then it's only going to get worse in the future. I mean you just can't stop paying your bills or hide forever. Not fixing the solution is something that I think a kid would do... not a mature adult.

I think you are looking at it the wrong way... don't think about it as treating specific symptoms; think of it generally improving your quality of life, increase your sense of well-being, reduce "stress"... and that gets your body to a point where it can heal itself.

Some people can't heal this way and they need help. I had a cousin die from suicide, because she didn't want to get help. She was young too. I had two high school friends that were great athletes die of the same thing. You can't tell me that just by thinking positive all of the time is going to help, because it doesn't in a majority of the cases where people end up killing themselves.

To me that sounds like a caution to be realistic in what you do... not a reason not to do it.

I think that you need to be realistic on subject matters that you obviously know nothing about. In other words, go and study the subject before telling people that they aren't being realistic etc., just because you may have the perfect life or whatever. Because you have no right telling people these things when you don't have the faintest idea as to what you are talking about.

bordertangoman

05-11-2006, 02:07 PM

This discussion reminds me of the HitchHiker's Guide to the Galaxy where there is a machine/box that if you are put into it shows you how utterly insignificant you are in the vastness of the universe.(Its used as a punishment)

It belies a sort of logic that anyone who is sane ought to be depressed because the human race is making a pretty good mess of itself and the planet too. I mean we're really going to hell in a handcart. ( or SUV!!)

I think processes like Buddhist meditation give us a capacity both to question our perceptions of reality and face suffering (our own and others) with compassion and kindness. Maybe for those of us who are depressed being kind to ourselves is the harder journey.

AzureDreamer

05-11-2006, 07:12 PM

You can't tell me that just by thinking positive all of the time is going to help, because it doesn't in a majority of the cases where people end up killing themselves.

No, I am not talking about "thinking positive"... (that's about as worthless as telling someone to "just be yourself".) I am talking about changing your lifestyle. Start DOING things that improve your quality of life.

Go paint your living room. Buy some ferns. (How many depressed people kill themselves after buying ferns?) Listen to different music. Plan out a healthy diet; not one where you are necessarily trying to lose weight.

How is ignoring any problem you can't solve the healthiest thing to do in most cases?

Because you can't do anything about them anyway. Once you have done all you can, focus on the things that are solveable. and a lot of emoitional problems... you can't do anything about.

I think that you need to be realistic on subject matters that you obviously know nothing about.

My experience is that depression, and a wide variety of physical ailments, often have nothing to do with medical causes. You can treat some of the symptoms medically, but it doesn't do anything to solve the underlying problems. Most people have things in their lives that make them unhappy and that they can change.

and I don't believe in Karma. No matter how bad you screwed up, you don't have it coming to you. You don't deserve to suffer. You can still have a normal, happy, full life.

pygmalion

05-11-2006, 08:29 PM

Thinking positive works ... and it doesn't. I suffered a major depression that lasted throughout high school and into my almost-mid-twenties. I read everything I could, tried to think positively, did tons of things that didn't help.

In my case, depression was caused by fury turned inward, I think. And, after a while, my habit of being sad. When I started taking assertiveness training and addressing the sources of my anger, the fog lifted over time.

Disclaimer: I believe that a lot of depression is chemically based, so thinking positive will do nada to help. Everybody's different. *shrug*

SPratt74

05-11-2006, 09:05 PM

No, I am not talking about "thinking positive"... (that's about as worthless as telling someone to "just be yourself".) I am talking about changing your lifestyle. Start DOING things that improve your quality of life.

Go paint your living room. Buy some ferns. (How many depressed people kill themselves after buying ferns?) Listen to different music. Plan out a healthy diet; not one where you are necessarily trying to lose weight.

The problem is that I have been doing those things. Don't you get it that just because you might start changing things about you doesn't mean that you chemical balance inside you will change? They are two completely different things. This is why listening to music does not help me. I have over a thousand CD's that I've collected over the years, and not one of them will help me. I've redecorated my bedroom over and over again, and that does not help me. I am the cook of the family, but that doesn't help me. If you have a chemical balance that isn't right, then nothing you do will work no matter how much you like to think that it will.

Because you can't do anything about them anyway. Once you have done all you can, focus on the things that are solveable. and a lot of emoitional problems... you can't do anything about.

I've tried this, and this is why I ended up depressed the past two weeks. And I've even kidded myself to thinking that dancing was some sort of therapy, but it's not. I mean sure it's a quick fix for the moment, but that didn't stop me from hitting rock bottom. And when you do finally get to the point as to where you can solve problems, you still need help. The answers are not going to come to you as easily as 1, 2, 3. I wish life worked that way, but it doesn't for some people.

My experience is that depression, and a wide variety of physical ailments, often have nothing to do with medical causes. You can treat some of the symptoms medically, but it doesn't do anything to solve the underlying problems. Most people have things in their lives that make them unhappy and that they can change.

What kind of experience have you had when it comes to depression? How do you know what works well for everyone? But just so you know, because I think that most of us that have written on this board knows that not everyone has problems like how I have problems and suffer the same kind of depression like how I've suffered. Sometimes people suffer depression without having problems then what do you do? I mean please tell me, because you seem to think that you are the expert. I mean if you know what it takes for people to be happy, then tell me and the rest of the people that have spoken on the thread what can make them a happier person since you know so much. To be honest, I don't think that you know squat, and if my friend Cathy were here, she'd have a fit reading these words that you are saying, and she would break everything down for you better than I can.

and I don't believe in Karma. No matter how bad you screwed up, you don't have it coming to you. You don't deserve to suffer. You can still have a normal, happy, full life.

I never said that you have to believe in karma, but I believe in karma and I don't think anything is wrong with that. But to me I think that if you do screw up, then you should pay for the consequences. I mean if you try to rob a bank, then you should have what's coming to you. And if you kill someone, then why should you be allowed to live (but that discussion is for a different subject all together). It's as simple as that in my world.

pygmalion

05-11-2006, 09:11 PM

The problem is that I have been doing those things. Don't you get it that just because you might start changing things about you doesn't mean that you chemical balance inside you will change? They are two completely different things. This is why listening to music does not help me. I have over a thousand CD's that I've collected over the years, and not one of them will help me. I've redecorated my bedroom over and over again, and that does not help me. I am the cook of the family, but that doesn't help me. If you have a chemical balance that isn't right, then nothing you do will work no matter how much you like to think that it will.

Exactly. A lot of the more serious depression is caused by chemicals. You can't think or behavior-modify your way out of that, IMO. :?

Oh Spratt! Hugs, darlin. I have to admit I haven't read the whole thread -- too busy and stressed. Are you taking any medication? I have a dear friend, Joe (not Joe from DF,) who has been on depression meds for years. He says they help in some ways but hurt in others. Oh! :(

SPratt74

05-11-2006, 09:23 PM

Exactly. A lot of the more serious depression is caused by chemicals. You can't think or behavior-modify your way out of that, IMO. :?

Oh Spratt! Hugs, darlin. I have to admit I haven't read the whole thread -- too busy and stressed. Are you taking any medication? I have a dear friend, Joe (not Joe from DF,) who has been on depression meds for years. He says they help in some ways but hurt in others. Oh! :(

Thank you! I was worried that maybe I started a thread that I couldn't, but the moderators seemed to be cool with it! ;)

Actually, my friend Cathy (who practices psychology etc.) gave me a program that she wanted me to try before I even considered medicine. I tried it, but these two weeks took a toll on me. I've never felt like I didn't want to leave the house until recently. However, the program did help for I entered school again last year to expand my degrees, and I started dance this year. Next on my list is finding a job, but not a full time job just yet. She said I'm probably not ready for that, but to take something with a few amount of hours just to get me back into the working field again and to get a pay check.

I actually agreed with this, and it has worked. I think the main problem was that I realized I just don't want to be a computer person any more, so that's when I hit rock bottom, because I don't know what to do next. However, I have volunteered my time at a local theater in town that's very well known. I'm still on my city board and in another organization that only meets once a month. So, it's not like I quit everything. I just am really burnt out with computers, but it's almost like that's all I know how to do, you know? Now what?

I edited this to say that my depression started last year, but it wasn't as serious as it was until now.

pygmalion

05-11-2006, 09:32 PM

SPratt74

05-11-2006, 09:45 PM

I'm not just blowing smoke, here, Spratt. You can do or be whatever you want. If you don't want to do computer stuff anymore, honestly, you don't have to. You can go do something that fits your personality better.

Like my Dad, who did engineering for fifteen or twenty years and who, relatively late in life, discovered that he wasn't an engineer by nature. He was a teacher. So then he taught and loved his life.

He was a lot older than you when he made that discovery.

You can do it, Spratt. :)

Oh thank you! My mom was like your dad. She taught English and taught other things up until she was in her 50's even. But then she decided that wasn't what she wanted to do, and she switched to be a Medical Transcriptionist. I was like where did that come from, but she loved it! She was able to work at home, and she was able to work at both hospitals. She was even a supervisor lol.

I guess that I have friends that have a certain time frame as to when they do things. You know like they do this and that at a certain age that type of thing, and it always seems to work out. Then there is me, and I'm still trying to find myself lol. I'm like, how do they get so lucky, and I have to start all over again?

Laura

05-11-2006, 10:41 PM

latingal

05-11-2006, 11:29 PM

SPratt74

05-11-2006, 11:32 PM

I had a career that involved programming computers...it lasted about 13 years and I think I disliked pretty much all of it, even though I was good at it and well-paid. Much of the time it was more like outright hate. And then there were the migranes from the stress. I'm out of the industry now, and never want to go back. I still dabble from time to time, doing some Perl scripting for my ballroom club's web site, but that's it. I don't miss any of it.

Oh, what languages do you know? I know Java, CSS, XHTML, XML, Visual Basic.Net, and Visual Basic 6. Mostly I'm a web programmer as you can tell lol. Anyways, I was talking to my sister today, and I told her about how I think that I just need to be by people. I don't want a behind the desk job any more. I love to socialize, and I think that being behind the desk depressed me, because I couldn't be out and about with people. I think over the jobs that I loved and only left because of pay basically I loved because I could be around people.

You know I like being in customer service whereas some people don't like that type of thing. This is why I left my college job though. I loved being around the students, but I hated being behind the desk. My sister thinks I'd be a good teacher or something like that, because I'm good at stuff like that when I want to be. And that could be. I could still be in education, but yet not have to work behind the desk 24/7 if I were a teacher. I've taught little kid's up to college level, so I have the experience. It's just do I want to go that way you know?

Laura

05-11-2006, 11:54 PM

Oh, what languages do you know?
Not that many...Fortran, C, C++, Perl, SQL, VAX assembler, Pentium assembler, the old Sun SPARC assembler, the ancient AT&T 3b2 assembler. I've done language tool support (yacc, lex, make, ctrace, cflow, libc, libm, and so on), been a build engineer (for the first C compiler for the Pentium chip series), run a system test group (for a C++ integrated programming environment), was a technical writer (for what is now Rogue Wave), and moved into user interface design and implementation (Infoseek was my baby, as was Critical Path's web-based email).

Of course, the only things I can actually do these days are some Perl scripting and HTML -- and only basic HTML at that. Don't even ask me about style sheets. It's been about five years since I've done any of this professionally. Maybe six. I've lost count. I moved on to being a housewife, a ballgown maker, and a dance competition organizer.

You seem to be perking up here. This is good, so long as you aren't hiding/avoiding. We're here for you in any case, though!

SPratt74

05-12-2006, 12:03 AM

Not that many...Fortran, C, C++, Perl, SQL, VAX assembler, Pentium assembler, the old Sun SPARC assembler, the ancient AT&T 3b2 assembler. I've done language tool support (yacc, lex, make, ctrace, cflow, libc, libm, and so on), been a build engineer (for the first C compiler for the Pentium chip series), run a system test group (for a C++ integrated programming environment), was a technical writer (for what is now Rogue Wave), and moved into user interface design and implementation (Infoseek was my baby, as was Critical Path's web-based email).

Of course, the only things I can actually do these days are some Perl scripting and HTML -- and only basic HTML at that. Don't even ask me about style sheets. It's been about five years since I've done any of this professionally. Maybe six. I've lost count. I moved on to being a housewife, a ballgown maker, and a dance competition organizer.

You seem to be perking up here. This is good, so long as you aren't hiding/avoiding. We're here for you in any case, though!

Well, look at you girl! You are one of those jack of many trades!!! But yeah I love CSS, and I won't go back to basic HTML if I can help it. I wanted to learn some of the languages that you have mentioned, but you know a lot that they don't even offer here! Goodness! How did you learn them all???;)

Thanks for your support again! You have no idea how much all of this means to me! ;)

Laura

05-12-2006, 12:18 AM

Goodness! How did you learn them all???;)
I left out LISP and Pascal. I'm pretty good at dabbling in languages, be they machine or not. I've also studied Latin, French, Spanish, and Mandarin Chinese.

Now, I'm not an expert at any of these (except for C), but if I had to save my life on some kind of geek form of "Survivor" I could figure it out.

I know this is sort of interesting but I feel kind of weird talking about me on your thread! But you can PM if me if you want to trade geek tales.

How about this: How did you get into computer programming? What was it that you liked about it? Have your initial views of the field disappointed you (that's what happened to me) or are you just burnt out in general? Is there anything about it that you could salvage and use in the future, or do you just want to wash your hands of it all? (There are no wrong answers here.)

SPratt74

05-12-2006, 12:41 AM

I left out LISP and Pascal. I'm pretty good at dabbling in languages, be they machine or not. I've also studied Latin, French, Spanish, and Mandarin Chinese.

Now, I'm not an expert at any of these (except for C), but if I had to save my life on some kind of geek form of "Survivor" I could figure it out.

I know this is sort of interesting but I feel kind of weird talking about me on your thread! But you can PM if me if you want to trade geek tales.

Don't worry about it lol. I wouldn't have asked you if I didn't want to know!!! ;)

How about this: How did you get into computer programming? What was it that you liked about it?

Lol! Oh boy more questions, but maybe this time I'll be able to answer them lol. I got into computer programming, because my friends were talking about how great computers were. My best friend at the time (was a guy by the way) really convinced me to get into the field, because I had a nervous break down. He spent seven hours on the phone with me (I could barely feel my ear at the end of our conversation), and somehow managed to convince me that computers was the best way to go. My mom wanted me to get into computers, so she picked me up one day and said that she wanted to take me to buy a computer (this was back in 1998 by the way), and I had been studying computers ever since. I guess now that I think about it, it's only been eight years not ten that I've been studying the computer lol. Oops!:D

I liked that the field was challenging, and there was always something new to learn. But then the computer field changes every six months, and to be honest, I'm tired of going back to school for it! ;)

Have your initial views of the field disappointed you (that's what happened to me) or are you just burnt out in general?

I think that both my initial views of the field and being burnt out in general is bothering me. It's hard for females to compete in the field much less it's hard enough with all of these high school students knowing more than I ever did about the computer. And I think that's what I hated about my college classes. I realized that here was this little girl going up against thirty guys in my class (with only two other girls), and I'm like... there is no way that I can compete with them. Sure I have work experience, but they are like experts in the computer field, you know?

Also, I did get burnt out I guess you could say, because last week I could barely get on my computer to check my e-mail. That's when I really hit rock bottom. I realized that the computer field just wasn't me. I mean I saw signs before you know like when I worked at the college, but they weren't like right smack in my face is all.

Is there anything about it that you could salvage and use in the future, or do you just want to wash your hands of it all? (There are no wrong answers here.)

You mean computer wise, or life in general? You know, I've had the most interesting life. I've said in another post that I have met people that people only wished they knew, and I've been places and seen things that people only wish they could have been and seen. So, all in all I've had a really great life. And I have taken everything in my life as a learning experience, so I don't wish that everything were to not have happened in other words. I'm glad that things have happened this way.

I guess what bothers me though is that I have to make a major change in my life right now. They say that change bothers some people, and I never thought it bothered me, because I moved around a lot etc. when I was younger. I mean, I thought I was into change. And I guess in a way though that I was hoping my life would be figured out by now like you know like that's what being a mature adult is about. And I guess that since I have to start really from square one (not in everything just like work etc.), then it's like I feel as though I failed, and what if I fail again? Then what?

nikita

05-12-2006, 04:55 AM

Hi-
it seems, that everybody here is doing better:D ?
Some people referred to some books about special diets, to prevent depressions. Do you know any author/title, you can suggest? About bananas and chocolate I already know:) .
Was suffering last year too. It came "out of the nowhere". I contacted a doctor who told me, that this is stress coming out when I start to relax after a stressfull working day. Unfortunately I completely relax when I am dancing:D . So I tryed to stay away from dancing, what didn't made me happier...
This year I am fine, and I really hope, that it will never come back...

Shooshoo

05-12-2006, 05:27 AM

, that this is stress coming out when I start to relax after a stressfull working day. Unfortunately I completely relax when I am dancing:D .

That's strange? Never heard that before

AzureDreamer

05-12-2006, 06:37 AM

Some people referred to some books about special diets, to prevent depressions. Do you know any author/title, you can suggest?

I highly reccomend Jeffery Steingarten's "The Man Who Ate Everything" and "It Must Have Been Something I Ate". They are easy reading and provide a lot to think about.

If you have access to a nutritionist (most health clubs will have a free service) definately go talk to them. They can be very valuable in planning out meals.

----
My general feeling is that a little bit of anything you fancy tends to do you good. I think it has to be a diet you are comfortable with as a permanent thing... and the focus should be on moderation and portion control, rather than abstinence.

From personal experience, I find low carb diets (Atkins and Zone, for example) really screw up the way I feel. Your experience may vary, but I find keeping carbs at around 60% of what I eat to be about optimum. I've reduced the amount of meat I consume, particularily in the evenings. I've found moderate consumption of wine with dinner makes the meal more satisfying.

I also took a week and monitored my blood sugar (a diabetic testing kit is available in all drug stores.) I find that keeping blood sugar relatively stable (for example, eating fruit or a even a bit of chocolate) really keeps me feeling better and avoiding mood swings.

Moderate exercise (a walk after dinner), plenty of sleep, minimizing fatigue, and setting time aside for relaxation and stretching all help too.

nikita

05-12-2006, 06:44 AM

I am on a nearly "no-carb" since about 2 years now when I wanted to reduce weight.. Before that I was eating pasta each and every day and I was happy...A pizza late nite + a glass of red wine is just gorgious!
That J.Steingarten is a cook! I found him.
May be I should just go back to my old eating habits. (Italian, Mediterranian)Soup, pasta, meat or fish, salate, cake+coffee. I never met any depressed Italian:-)

AzureDreamer

05-12-2006, 08:17 AM

A lot of the more serious depression is caused by chemicals. You can't think or behavior-modify your way out of that, IMO.

I don't agree at all!

Changing your lifestyle, your eating habits, etc... that will change your body chemistry.

When you are stressed, your body goes into a flight/flight mode... shuts down 'unnecessary' stuff like hormone production, prevents you from getting a restful sleep (so you can awake to any sign of danger, blah, blah.) If you can relax... your body can start going about its business of straightening itself out.

For most people, there are things in their lives that make them unhappy, stressed. Its not just cosmic bad luck that they had a dysfunctional hormone gland... there are external things that are stressing you, and that is having a knock-on effect on the way you feel. There are a lot of things you can do to sort these out... ignore them, change them, or mitigate the effects on yourself by various relaxation techniques.

cornutt

05-12-2006, 08:27 AM

cornutt

05-12-2006, 08:38 AM

Changing your lifestyle, your eating habits, etc... that will change your body chemistry.

With all due respect, this is bull$#it. It's like saying that one can fix a thyroid problem, or a heart murmur, or a broken leg with a lifestyle change. Azure, I hate to call you out, but this is an area which you are clearly not up to speed on. And the statements you are making keep implying that the depressed person somehow deserves it because they aren't living a "correct" lifestyle. That's not helping.

DF is not the place to debate this, so I'll say no more.

SuzieQ

05-12-2006, 08:52 AM

Hi SPratt - to tell you the truth I wasn't sure if I should post on this thread. There are so many difficult issues involved in this, and I am definitely not qualified to be of any help in this.

But, I did want to let you know I empathize (to the point I can) with what I hear in your posts, and I wanted to send along my support and positive thoughts to you....can't think of anything else to do but let you know I care.

Spratt, this is how I have felt all week also. Even though I struggle with some mild depression myself, I can't pretend to know what you are struggling with and don't have a solution for you. I do believe it's possible to be depressed and still have an underlying sense of joy in your life. ("The joy of the Lord is my strength." Nehemiah 8:10) Exercise and diet can certainly affect your state of mind. And changing jobs or careers will not necessarily fix the depression, but might help with your overall attitude and coping--it's certainly no fun to be stuck in a job you don't like, and if you can change it, go for it!
I hope to see you soon---I'll PM you.

AzureDreamer

05-12-2006, 09:12 AM

It's like saying that one can fix a thyroid problem, or a heart murmur, or a broken leg with a lifestyle change.

well, in the case of a thyroid problem... making sure you are getting the right vitamins and paying attention to your diet can make a HUGE difference. Lots of things make the problem worse (soya and corn come to mind, I am sure there are others.)

Heart murmur? Mostly they are harmless, often disappearing on their own, often the best solution is just not to worry about it... get on with your life.

and how exactly do you fix a broken leg without a lifestyle change? Taking it easy for a couple weeks? hah. I am going to dancing this weekend, I need some pills for my leg.

(but that misses the point... broken legs and heart murmurs are primary problems... they aren't symptoms of something else. You don't suffer a broken leg because you are stressed out...)

A lot of other problems (like diabetes, high blood pressure, etc) are primarily controllable with appropriate lifestyle changes.

And the statements you are making keep implying that the depressed person somehow deserves it because they aren't living a "correct" lifestyle.

No... that's back to the karma theory... and I don't believe that at all. You do however have the ability to make changes to your life that will address the problem... you aren't some powerless victim at the mercy of an unfeeling universe.

nikita

05-12-2006, 09:18 AM

IMO some factors have to come together. A stressfull job and an unhealthy lifestyle are surely not helpfull. But you can get away with it for a long time without having any sign of a depression. Probably you don't become very old with this.
Unsolved things in our private life/past are another thing. May be we have forgotten about those things or we work like crazy not to think of it, because it's too painful.
But comes the moment when everything becomes to much for our body+soul. Then comes the crash.
I don't know, if I am right here, since I don't have any medical background. But that's my explanation.
Hopefully a healthy lifestyle and stress reduction can prevent us from a crash. Sometimes something happened, what let everything " overflow". For instance the loss of a beloved family member, an accident, stress at work, some unwanted or difficult change of livestyle.
Might be a change of hormon production, which can have different causes which should be considered. Sometimes they are easily to be treated.

cornutt

05-12-2006, 10:44 AM

well, in the case of a thyroid problem... making sure you are getting the right vitamins and paying attention to your diet can make a HUGE difference. Lots of things make the problem worse (soya and corn come to mind, I am sure there are others.)

Heart murmur? Mostly they are harmless, often disappearing on their own, often the best solution is just not to worry about it... get on with your life.

Thyroid problems were part of my wife's stepmother's suicide a couple of weeks ago. I have had one relative die and another one need open-heart surgery due to heart murmurs. So I'm not interested in hearing your hippy-dippy feel-good theories.

<plonk>

Laura

05-12-2006, 11:01 AM

Its not just cosmic bad luck that they had a dysfunctional hormone gland... there are external things that are stressing you, and that is having a knock-on effect on the way you feel. There are a lot of things you can do to sort these out... ignore them, change them, or mitigate the effects on yourself by various relaxation techniques.

So why is it okay to take medication to fix a thyroid gland that was burnt out from a variety of stressors, but not to fix neurotransmittor production burnt out by the same stressors?

Obviously the stressors need to be dealt with in addition to taking the medications, but sometimes just getting rid of the stressors isn't enough. I had adrenal burn-out, too, and took a six-month course of treatment for it. It's fine now, I don't need the meds any more, but I needed the help to get things back to normal in a chemical sense.

Heart murmers, depending on what type they are and how severe they are, can be a big issue. In the US, a dentist will not de-scale the plaque from your teeth if you have any kind of heart murmer, unless you either have a doctor's note or take an antibiotic an hour before the treatment? Why? Because people have died from the bacteria that are knocked loose from the mouth during the process later attacking the heart at the valve where the murmer is located.

I despise taking antibiotics, and I can't get a note until I take an echocardiogram, so it's been a few years since I've had my teeth professionally cleaned because I have a heart murmer. It affects me in absolutely no way, but that's the rule in the US now. I'll have to deal with getting the ECG at some point....

AzureDreamer

05-12-2006, 11:03 AM

So I'm not interested in hearing your hippy-dippy feel-good theories.

There are no reputable doctors anywhere in the world that will give you any advice different than what I have said. If you want to get the most out of any medical treatment you need to get your diet, exercise, relaxation, etc.in order. A healthy lifestyle is important from recovering from any medical condition, and it important for avoiding them to begin with.

nikita

05-12-2006, 11:17 AM

Last year I went to a clinic to make a so called great blood picture, to find out, what I have.
The doctors congratulated me to my great health and did not find anything to worry about. Well- I did not tell them specifically, that I feel depressed. To what kind of a doctor should I go to and what to surch for? Actually I am okay:D .

Laura

05-12-2006, 11:20 AM

There are no reputable doctors anywhere in the world that will give you any advice different than what I have said. If you want to get the most out of any medical treatment you need to get your diet, exercise, relaxation, etc.in order. A healthy lifestyle is important from recovering from any medical condition, and it important for avoiding them to begin with.

Of course this makes sense. However, the way you are expressing yourself in your various posts, it is coming across to me that you think that the ONLY thing that works is lifestyle changes, that medications are not necessary or desirable to treat various stress-related medical conditions. This is completely untrue.

No one here is saying that if you just take the pills you don't need to make the lifestyle changes. We know and understand that both are needed. But for some people and conditions, just making lifestyle changes is not enough -- the body needs extra help at times.

AzureDreamer

05-12-2006, 11:31 AM

So why is it okay to take medication to fix a thyroid gland that was burnt out from a variety of stressors, but not to fix neurotransmittor production burnt out by the same stressors?

No... you are missing the point. Its fine to take medication...

but...

- changing your lifestyle may resolve the problem
- by itself, medication will probably not be sufficient
- medication shouldn't be the first thing you try
- changing your lifestyle is important to avoid the problem reoccuring

Depression (and a ton of other physical problems) are usually symptoms of stress. You may need to take medication to get yourself to the point where your body can heal itself, much like you would take cold medicine so you can get a good night's rest... but cold medicine is not a substitute for a good night's sleep, and you can often head off the problem by taking some vitamins and getting proper sleep to begin with.

Laura

05-12-2006, 11:32 AM

Oh, this is hilarious...I just saw a TV commercial for a new anti-depressant called Cymbalta, which works on the serotonin and norepinephrine cycles. This is exactly what I am being treated for. Fortunately my case doesn't require prescription drugs, the amino acid combinations I'm taking are handling it for me.

Laura

05-12-2006, 11:34 AM

- changing your lifestyle may resolve the problem
- by itself, medication will probably not be sufficient
- medication shouldn't be the first thing you try
- changing your lifestyle is important to avoid the problem reoccuring
I agree with everything you are saying one this list, and have all along, except for the possibility that medication should not be the first thing you try. That is a decision that depends on the severity and acuteness of the situation, of the particular patient and doctor, and on what the medical problem is being treated.

Anyway, what you just said in the full post above is not what it seemed like you were saying before. You were coming across to me as quite anti-medication. Thank you for clearing this up.

SPratt74

05-12-2006, 02:05 PM

I don't agree at all!

Changing your lifestyle, your eating habits, etc... that will change your body chemistry.

When you are stressed, your body goes into a flight/flight mode... shuts down 'unnecessary' stuff like hormone production, prevents you from getting a restful sleep (so you can awake to any sign of danger, blah, blah.) If you can relax... your body can start going about its business of straightening itself out.

For most people, there are things in their lives that make them unhappy, stressed. Its not just cosmic bad luck that they had a dysfunctional hormone gland... there are external things that are stressing you, and that is having a knock-on effect on the way you feel. There are a lot of things you can do to sort these out... ignore them, change them, or mitigate the effects on yourself by various relaxation techniques.

I completely disagree with you. (Surprise... surprise.) Not everyone is stressed when they are depressed. I'm sorry, but having a chemical imbalance can shut you down as well, and I am tired of you being so closed minded about depression that I want you to go and talk to someone that really knows about this type of thing like a doctor or a psychologist, because you absolutely know squat about depression except what you possibly have endured. Well buddy, not everyone is like you... so get over it already!!!

SPratt74

05-12-2006, 02:21 PM

well, in the case of a thyroid problem... making sure you are getting the right vitamins and paying attention to your diet can make a HUGE difference. Lots of things make the problem worse (soya and corn come to mind, I am sure there are others.)

OMG! If someone doesn't shut this person up soon, I might scream! There are many people in my family with thyroid problems. I'm lucky I don't need to be on medicine yet, but pretty much everyone in my family has to be on medicine. Certain diets do not help (my brother-in-law tried everyone of them it seemed). What is it with you and diets that make you think that medicine should not come into play? You are so wrong!

Heart murmur? Mostly they are harmless, often disappearing on their own, often the best solution is just not to worry about it... get on with your life.

and how exactly do you fix a broken leg without a lifestyle change? Taking it easy for a couple weeks? hah. I am going to dancing this weekend, I need some pills for my leg.

Are you kidding me? Heart murmurs don't go away. They are there for your lifetime. Of course, that's what I know of heart murmurs from the people that have them in my family. I'd like you to talk to them, because you obviously once again have no idea what you are talking about.

(but that misses the point... broken legs and heart murmurs are primary problems... they aren't symptoms of something else. You don't suffer a broken leg because you are stressed out...)

You missed the point that the poster was trying to make, and I would wish you got the point, because if I were anywhere near you right now, WW3 would come very quickly.

A lot of other problems (like diabetes, high blood pressure, etc) are primarily controllable with appropriate lifestyle changes.

Ok, you try telling this to my brother-in-law when he almost had to go to the emergency room again, because he does have diabetes. He can't survive without his medicine. If he didn't take his medicine on the trip with us, then he could have died. Diet doesn't help that any. I mean sure it does some, but it doesn't help without the appropriate medicine. And I bet if he were to read your ignorant posts on here that he would be part of WW3 as well!

No... that's back to the karma theory... and I don't believe that at all. You do however have the ability to make changes to your life that will address the problem... you aren't some powerless victim at the mercy of an unfeeling universe.

Well, you don't have to bleieve in karma, but I do. But yes I know everyone has to agree with you, because of how closed minded you are. Again, some of us can't make those changes without help. You make it seem like if you just fix this or that then everything will be better, but you are so wrong and I will go along with what Cornutt says about you being full of ***********!!!!

SPratt74

05-12-2006, 02:25 PM

There are no reputable doctors anywhere in the world that will give you any advice different than what I have said. If you want to get the most out of any medical treatment you need to get your diet, exercise, relaxation, etc.in order. A healthy lifestyle is important from recovering from any medical condition, and it important for avoiding them to begin with.

Ok, you tell that to the people that are dependent on medicine in my family! If we didn't need medicine, then why pay for prescription plans? And if the doctors didn't know about these types of medicine, how many people (including those on DF) could have died without taking the appropriate medicine for their health problem? My God... I would rather go to a doctor that knows how to save my life more than you any day. You are full of ******* in my honest opinion!!!:mad:

P.S. Sorry to the modersators that there are three of my posts in a row. I felt like I had to say what was on my mind though.;)

SPratt74

05-12-2006, 02:42 PM

No... you are missing the point. Its fine to take medication...

but...

- changing your lifestyle may resolve the problem
- by itself, medication will probably not be sufficient
- medication shouldn't be the first thing you try
- changing your lifestyle is important to avoid the problem reoccuring

Depression (and a ton of other physical problems) are usually symptoms of stress. You may need to take medication to get yourself to the point where your body can heal itself, much like you would take cold medicine so you can get a good night's rest... but cold medicine is not a substitute for a good night's sleep, and you can often head off the problem by taking some vitamins and getting proper sleep to begin with.

I'm sorry, but that's not what you had said. You are full of crap, because you just gave full explanations about heart murmurs etc., and about how they don't need medicine. You are just tryng to save yourself, because you know that you had messed up, and that from what I can tell on this thread, everyone disagrees with you. If you had said something like this much earlier, then I wouldn't have gotten so upset with you, but you hadn't. So, stop trying to say that you feel this way when you've made it very clear in previous posts that you don't.

Ok, sorry moderators, but this is my fourth post in a row. ;)

AzureDreamer

05-12-2006, 02:46 PM

Are you kidding me? Heart murmurs don't go away

I'm sorry, but that's not what you had said. You are full of crap, because you just gave full explanations about heart murmurs etc., and about how they don't need medicine

First site on Google:

http://kidshealth.org/parent/medical/heart/murmurs.html

Although many parents fear the worst when their child is diagnosed with a heart murmur, it's important to know that this diagnosis is actually extremely common. In fact, many kids are found to have a heart murmur at some point during their lives. Most murmurs are not a cause for concern and do not affect the child's health at all.

discuss.

SPratt74

05-12-2006, 02:53 PM

First site on Google:

http://kidshealth.org/parent/medical/heart/murmurs.html

Although many parents fear the worst when their child is diagnosed with a heart murmur, it's important to know that this diagnosis is actually extremely common. In fact, many kids are found to have a heart murmur at some point during their lives. Most murmurs are not a cause for concern and do not affect the child's health at all.

discuss.

I'm sorry, but it's like what Laura said, if a child has a heart murmur, then they have to take medicine before they can see a dentist even. It is these parents that are putting their child at risk if they think that they should not be on medicine of some kind. And the medicine that you have to take before you see a dentist is not an everyday type of medicine. I know for I am on that myself for this reason. Believe me how I wish I didn't have to take it, because I have to take four pills before I go to the dentist and that's not any fun, but I have to, and even my dentist will say that if he finds out that someone has a health problem and they aren't telling him about it (which only happens when family members of that patient tell him, and not always the patient), then he will not treat the patient until they take care of themselves... and this includes taking the appropriate medicine when needed. You are putting the life of your child, and the business of the doctor at risk if you don't take care of yourself the right way.

P.S. I had to edit to say that it's like what my x always said, don't believe everything that you read in the papers. I'm lucky that compared to my family, I don't have the other health problems, but heart murmurs is something that I do know about, so discuss away my friend. It's like what I've always believed... until you lived it... it's best not to give advice about it.

AzureDreamer

05-12-2006, 03:06 PM

I'm sorry, but it's like what Laura said, if a child has a heart murmur, then they have to take medicine before they can see a dentist even.

Generally, they don't. (There are types of heart murmurs that do, but those are more exceptional.)

SPratt74

05-12-2006, 03:30 PM

Generally, they don't. (There are types of heart murmurs that do, but those are more exceptional.)

Yes, sometimes they don't, but that is because they are not being treated properly. Everyone that has a heart murmur whatever the reason should be on medicine at least when they go to the dentist. Again, I don't have to take anything daily. But my dentist will not work on me if I don't take my medicine. I know, because he did refuse me once when I came to see him after work one day, and I didn't have my medicine on me. Trust me, what dentist would want to refuse a patient, because that's how they get their pay check right? He knows tha t I have themoney to pay him. I've been a patient with him for ten years. So, why refuse me then?

mamboqueen

05-12-2006, 08:42 PM

pygmalion

05-12-2006, 08:45 PM

Thanks, MQ. I'd thought about responding, but couldn't figure out how. :cool:

SPratt74

05-12-2006, 08:48 PM

Okay...let's all take a chill pill here (pun intended) and agree to disagree where necessary, but please, no potshots. This is obviously a heated topic and we all need to try to express our opinions with respect of others who may disagree.

We are into our fifth day of rain here. Haven't seen the sun since Monday and probably won't until some time next week. THAT is depressing!

Sorry MQ. If it makes you feel better AZ and I discussed it off the board and decided to better agree to disagree, so I think that is over now. I hope. Either way, I went and grabbed my chill pill (which is chocolate by the way lol), and I feel much better now. I am sorry that things got out of hand.;)

pygmalion

05-12-2006, 08:50 PM

Thanks, Spratt. :D

mamboqueen

05-12-2006, 08:53 PM

Sorry MQ. If it makes you feel better AZ and I discussed it off the board and decided to better agree to disagree, so I think that is over now. I hope. Either way, I went and grabbed my chill pill (which is chocolate by the way lol), and I feel much better now. I am sorry that things got out of hand.;)

Not to worry. Trust me....I have my hot button issues, too and figured out the best way for me to control them (ignore, wine, chocolate...whatever works!). Most nowadays, I simply think a while before responding and then usually my initial reaction is tempered, or I simply don't bother. I'm glad you worked things out. If the rest of the world operated that way.... ;)

pygmalion

05-12-2006, 08:55 PM

I vote for chocolate. :rolleyes:

SPratt74

05-12-2006, 08:56 PM

Not to worry. Trust me....I have my hot button issues, too and figured out the best way for me to control them (ignore, wine, chocolate...whatever works!). Most nowadays, I simply think a while before responding and then usually my initial reaction is tempered, or I simply don't bother. I'm glad you worked things out. If the rest of the world operated that way.... ;)

Thanks. I appreciate that lol! Believe it or not, I usually don't respond so fast, but some people do know how to push you. I've had years of fighting with my x, so I've got some pretty good practice in lol. I can take the best of them. ;)

Oh had to edit to say that I'll try to be good though I promise lol.

pygmalion

05-12-2006, 08:58 PM

Thanks. I appreciate that lol! Believe it or not, I usually don't respond so fast, but some people do know how to push you. I've had years of fighting with my x, so I've got some pretty good practice in lol. I can take the best of them. ;)

Oh had to edit to say that I'll try to be good though I promise lol.

Yeah. I think we all have those hot button issues. I know I do. :cool:

mamboqueen

05-12-2006, 08:59 PM

Well, I'm trying to practice what I preach to my kids. One pushes the others buttons and she gets all worked up. It's precisely what he was looking for. So, when someone pushes you, the best thing you can do is NOT give them the reaction they're looking for. Of course, it can be easier said than done!

pygmalion

05-12-2006, 09:04 PM

So, when someone pushes you, the best thing you can do is NOT give them the reaction they're looking for. Of course, it can be easier said than done!

Where's the fun in that? :tongue: :lol:

mamboqueen

05-12-2006, 09:06 PM

Well, the trick is to use reverse psychology and give them the total opposite of what they're looking for....and leave 'em scratching their head.

SPratt74

05-12-2006, 09:08 PM

Where's the fun in that? :tongue: :lol:

I'm sure that's what her kids say lol! :p

But yeah I mean it was fun fighting with my x, and must I say that I learned how to defend myself really good, and I became really good at fighting because of him lol. My mom would be so proud lol. ;)

pygmalion

05-12-2006, 10:40 PM

SPratt74

05-12-2006, 11:23 PM

Not my Mom. She's a strictly "Confrontations are bad. Confrontations make waves." kinda person. Eh. Sometimes making waves can be a good thing, IMO. If the status quo stinks, make waves. Why not? :lol:

My mom used to be like that, but yet she used to be the type that would say that I have to get married by the time I was 25 or she wouldn't buy me a wedding dress. I would come back and say that's ok, because I plan on eloping lol! Now she's like go ahead and elope lol, it saves on cost lol.:p

But yeah fighting can be a good thing... well, if it's with the person you are with at the time, because you know what comes afterwards has got to be good lol, and if I have to explain this to anyone, then you can pm me, because we seriously need to talk lol...! ;)

pygmalion

05-13-2006, 06:57 AM

My mom used to be like that, but yet she used to be the type that would say that I have to get married by the time I was 25 or she wouldn't buy me a wedding dress. I would come back and say that's ok, because I plan on eloping lol! Now she's like go ahead and elope lol, it saves on cost lol.:p

But yeah fighting can be a good thing... well, if it's with the person you are with at the time, because you know what comes afterwards has got to be good lol, and if I have to explain this to anyone, then you can pm me, because we seriously need to talk lol...! ;)

I get it. I hope. :lol:

AzureDreamer

05-13-2006, 07:22 AM

I get it. I hope.

hmmm... if you reversed those two sentences, it would mirror my sentiments exactly... ;)

pygmalion

05-13-2006, 07:32 AM

ROTFL!! :lol:

SPratt74

05-13-2006, 01:35 PM

I get it. I hope. :lol:

Yeah I think you are old enough to get what I had meant lol. What it's true though is it not? :)

anp73ga31

09-28-2006, 11:31 PM

Wow! You guys had some good threads going here and I missed them! I just wanted to say "thanks" to everyone who posted about their depression. I think that I am mostly like Laura and have low seratonin levels...I have had blue moods since I can remember. However, I also had something bad happen to me about 10 years ago that really changed my life in a not good way and I was very depressed for a number of months afterwards about it. I could go to work and do my job without my job performance being affected, but I would come home afterwards and go to my room and just sit in the middle of the floor and cry my heart out. And to those who say, "if you dont want to be depressed, then dont be", I want to tell you that you have obviously not been truly depressed. I developed a new respect for people with problems with depression and similar things once I experienced it myself. No matter how badly I wanted to not be depressed, no matter how hard I tried to tell myself I was not depressed, it MADE NO DIFFERENCE. My sub-concious or whatever you would call it, had to work thru things on its own while the rest of me had to sit and suffer and wait for it to catch up. It was a very weird feeling and I'm sure I'm not doing it justice in the way I'm describing it. It was almost like....like something else had control of you and you knew it, but were powerless to do anything about it. The brain is a very strange and powerful thing! Luckily, I was able to come out of my depression and deal with my issues and I have not had any bouts of depression since. But I do still have my blue moods, more often than not lately because I've had alot of stresses going on, and I am still in search of ways to make it better. So thanks to Spratt74 for bringing this up and for everyone who shared on this thread. Its always a happy relief to find out that you are not alone. :)

dgcasey

10-01-2006, 04:03 AM

I would come home afterwards and go to my room and just sit in the middle of the floor and cry my heart out. And to those who say, "if you dont want to be depressed, then dont be", I want to tell you that you have obviously not been truly depressed.

I have been truly depressed and it really isn't that hard to say to yourself to snap out of it. According to you, you didn't want to be depressed, but then you admit that you would go home after work, sit in the middle of the floor and cry your heart out. Sorry, for being blunt, but that is not the actions of person who doesn't want to be depressed. If you want to get past your depression, you change your routine and look for the way out. And the way out is not going to be found in a dark room, feeling sorry for yourself.

For me, it was any number of things. Nothing gets me feeling right with the world better than jumping on my bicycle and not stopping until I've put about fifty miles under my wheels. Well, I shouldn't say nothing, because the Friday night social has a way of brightening any day.

All I'm trying to say is that depression can be conquered if a person truly wants to conquer it. It's just like being poor (in America), being overweight, being slow at reading or any number of things that people look at as being something wrong in their lives. Everyone wants that magic pill or that get-rich-quick scheme that requires no effort or whatever. It's almost always a mirage and it leaves the person feeling even worse than before.

Look for ways to conquer whatever you find lacking in your life and then get to it.

Twilight_Elena

10-01-2006, 06:07 AM

I have been truly depressed and it really isn't that hard to say to yourself to snap out of it.

Don't generalise, please.
Some (some!) cases of depression can be helped by therapy/counselling. What you're suggesting ("snap out of it") is a form of therapy. However. I think it's rather silly (and I'm using light wording) to assume that you can deal with depression by telling yourself to "snap out of it". Certainly it's important in all cases to realise that you're in a bad situation and try to find the will to deal with it, but don't be so quick to assume that those who don't or can't are weaklings.
I find it incredibly hard to believe that you were really depressed and simply told yourself "snap out of it, man" and it was all over. That sounds like either you weren't really depressed but had the blues OR you're fooling yourself by choking all emotion and convincing yourself that you're fine when that's not the case.
Even if we could assume that one can do such a thing and find himself/herself in such a level of self-awareness that s/he can simply snap out of depression, then it's too silly to say that everyone can do this. Maybe you're incredibly mature or blessed with brainwaves that ordinary people don't possess. That doesn't mean that everyone else is a weak idiot that wants an easy solution.
Many people try and try but can't find their way out. Many people have issues rooted so far back that they need YEARS of counselling and soul searching to find out what's wrong with them and the rip those bad things out. Others are severely depressed and need medication.
Of COURSE you have to want to deal with it. Of COURSE you need to try. But don't assume that's all it takes. That's only the beginning. Sometimes it's enough (and even then it takes a lot of time). Sometimes it's not enough.
Just because you don't want to die doesn't mean you have the will to live. Depression takes all will away from you. You must have no idea how much strength it takes to get up in the morning and go through your day when you're depressed. It's like trying to get out of bed when you've got a boulder smashing your body and everything is SCREAMING to you that you should just give up. Try telling that person that all it takes to cure him/her is a fun night out and aerobics. Try telling someone who can't find the will do the things s/he loved to do before that all it takes is for him/her to "snap out of it".
I think that your case must have been either a really mild one or not even that. Why? I explained the reasons above. Maybe you just don't know what depression is? Perhaps. Maybe you're one of those people who dismiss depression for reasons also stated above.
So please. Don't generalise.

T_E

fascination

10-01-2006, 09:05 AM

okay...I am just going to say this...there are many many types of depression, some types are more or less within the control of the person experiencing them...not all depression is simply a state of mind to be willed away, some is biochemical to a degree that cannot be altered without help... and one's desire not to be depressed has postively no bearing upon it...other types of depression are brought on by grief and come an go in natural waves and SHOULD be experienced as a way of moving through the process to a happier space again...let us please be careful about assuming that because we have been depressed, we can grasp the totality of what it takes to conquer any and all depression

Twilight_Elena

10-01-2006, 09:16 AM

wooh

10-01-2006, 09:16 AM

All I'm trying to say is that depression can be conquered if a person truly wants to conquer it...Look for ways to conquer whatever you find lacking in your life and then get to it.

Sometimes what's lacking in a person's life is sufficient levels of serotonin in the brain. All the "snapping" in the world is going to fix that. Do you tell little kids with Type 1 Diabetes to just "snap out of it" and that with a little willpower, their body will process nutrients without their insulin shots? There's "depression" where you're sad and you're going through a process and with some time and work you'll get over it. Then there's depression where you have a temporary or permanent imbalance of chemicals in the brain. And that's no less a medical condition in need of treatment than diabetes.

SPratt74

10-01-2006, 12:10 PM

So thanks to Spratt74 for bringing this up and for everyone who shared on this thread. Its always a happy relief to find out that you are not alone. :)

I'm glad that I could help! Well, since this thread has been around for a while, I won't talk about the old stuff but what I have realized since then. Nothing felt worse then I was in that state of mind (to me at the time). I since then have done a few things to change myself. I have changed my routine, and I have gotten rid of the things that didn't make me happy whether or not people agreed with me at the time. But do you know what? You can't just snap out of it even with all the changes that I have made in my life. I still feel down once in a while (even though I make a great actress when needed), and sometimes yes I do cry for no reason. But the one thing that I have noticed is that even on days like today when I'm sort of feeling down, I'm not as down as I was back then, but that doesn't mean that my depression has gone away. It just means that now I have to really catch myself when I'm in that type of mood, but it's hard to change if you feel like crying. And yes I can have every kind of distraction to help me throughout the day, but what about at night when I'm alone and it hits me? So, to me you can't snap out of it. You can do things to make your life easier, which is always a good thing, but if anyone knows the secret recipe as to how to snap out of it then let me know.

But also I do want to say this. I'm not mad or defensive to those that have said to snap out of it, or along those lines. I understand that to some people if they don't see you sick or a bruise on you, then to them you aren't sick. Just like what I went through with my sister when I had muscle spasms. She did not believe me when I said how bad I was until she went to the store with me and I couldn't pick up an item from the bottom shelf. She said it was then that she realized that yes I was really sick. So, I understand this side of people even though it does hurt once in a while. But I do understand. When I was younger I used to believe that I had to see something in order to believe it, but now that I'm older I realize that anything in this world is possible despite how you might feel about something. Anyways, I just wanted to say these things, and that I'm glad that this thread is still very much active! I mean not that depression is a good thing, but it is nice to know that you aren't alone in this world, and that others have and are going through the same thing. ;)

dgcasey

10-01-2006, 06:49 PM

I think that your case must have been either a really mild one or not even that. Why? I explained the reasons above. Maybe you just don't know what depression is? Perhaps. Maybe you're one of those people who dismiss depression for reasons also stated above. T_E

Elena, you have no idea who I am or what I am about. Yes, I do know what depression is. Yes, I do know how it feels. Yes, I do know how it is to come home from work, eat very little and then crawl into bed and not get up until it's time to go to work again, fourteen hours later. And repeat that little scenario for about six months straight.

I know how living this life can cause a person to drop from 190 pounds to 145 pounds and become so sore and frail they can't hardly get out of bed. How this kind of life can begin with losing ones family and culimnate with losing ones job because they can't focus on their work anymore.

Or finally making an appointment with my personal physician to find out why I couldn't get out of bed without extreme amounts of pain and finding out what I should have been able to see just by looking in the mirror; that I was severly underweight. Yes, he prescribed the "magic" pill and put me on Prednisone and then gave me a referral to a psychologist. He said that actually calling him and going to see him would be totally up to me, but he felt that it might help.

Did I go see the psych? No, I didn't. I filled the prescription the doctor gave me and started taking it. Within a week I was up about five pounds.

A couple of days later I was looking at my old bicycle, sitting in the corner with its flat tires and rusty chain and got the urge to get out. I spent about an hour going over the bike, getting it ready and then hit the road for a short, 35-mile spin. When I returned to the house, I felt like a two-ton weight had been lifted from my shoulders. Cycling is now an engraved in stone part of my life.

The point is, as Jim Rohn would say, "the greatest day of your life can be the day you say I've had it!" It's the day you open your eyes, stop feeling sorry for yourself and look for the doorway leading out of your depression or whatever other unwanted situation you find yourself in. Do you hate your job and find that it causes most of your depression? Guess what? There are other jobs out there. I've walked away from a couple of well paying jobs because they were dragging me down. Do you want the next six months to be like the last six months? The next five years to be like the last five years? If not, then it's time to make whatever changes you need to make and get moving. As a good friend of mine is want to say, "build a bridge and get the f**k over it."

Have I had periods when I've slipped backwards? Yes, a couple of times to the point of wondering what the hell is the use of even trying. Everyone does. But, each time I was able to stop myself from descending to the bottom of that pit again, by finding something to pull me back out. I only wish I had found ballroom dancing years ago instead of just last year, because I get almost the same sense of fulfillment and happiness from it that I get from my bicycle, my music, my writing and any number of things I have found that bring joy to my life. Things that I never would have found laying around in a dark room.

To those who have thought I was not being totally honest here because I said something about "snapping out of it," my snapping took about one year of roller coaster ride through emotions. But, it started simply by getting out of bed each day and looking myself in the mirror and saying, "I've had it," and that today would be a better day than yesterday.

Thinking that going to the psych and getting the "magic" pill is going to make everything rosy is living a delusion. I'm sure that there are some, sitting around world right now, reading these words with their mouths wide open, not believing what they see on their screens. Maybe I am being a little tough; a little drill-sergeant like in my attitude, but I’ve been there and I can assure you that no one is going to get past depression until they get up, turn on the light and look at themselves in the mirror and decide that it’s time to move on. Countless trips to the therapist and the pharmacy are not going to change a damn thing until that person is ready to take charge of their own future. You want to leave your future in the hands of someone else? Then your future will always fit into their plans.

Maybe this is why the Marilyn Hotchkiss movie moves me so much.

Oh, and the person that said something about telling a kid with Diabetes to just snap out of it; don’t be stupid. Let’s try to stick with reality and not fantasy.

SPratt74

10-01-2006, 07:02 PM

dgcasey - I totally respect your situation. I really do. But there are some things that you have where you have to take medicine. It doesn't matter how well you think that you are either. It's what keeps "you" alive that you have to think about. For instance, if you aren't taking medicine to help your diabetes, then you are not only hurting yourself but your family that loves you, but you also aren't doing what needs to be done in order to stay alive. And what works best for you might not work best for someone else, so that doesn't give anyone the right to judge me because they don't handle things like me. And even though I for one may not choose your method of staying healthy and strong, that doesn't mean that I'm not strong. In fact, my x fiance could tell you differently. It just means that I care about "myself", "my" family, and "my" situation to do what I feel is right for "me" no matter if someone else thinks it's right or not.

wooh

10-01-2006, 07:16 PM

"magic" pill
It's not a magic pill. It's medication to fix your body chemistry. It gets you to the point where you can pick yourself up.
Countless trips to the therapist and the pharmacy are not going to change a damn thing until that person is ready to take charge of their own future.
True, but until your body chemistry gets straightened out, it can literally be impossible to take charge of your own future.

Oh, and the person that said something about telling a kid with Diabetes to just snap out of it; don’t be stupid. Let’s try to stick with reality and not fantasy.

I'm sticking with reality. Different chemical imbalances affect the body in different ways. Not producing enough (or any) insulin, diabetes. Not producing enough serotonin, depression. Do some research before you call people stupid, otherwise you just look ignorant.

waltzgirl

10-01-2006, 07:21 PM

Don't generalise, please.
Some (some!) cases of depression can be helped by therapy/counselling. What you're suggesting ("snap out of it") is a form of therapy. However. I think it's rather silly (and I'm using light wording) to assume that you can deal with depression by telling yourself to "snap out of it". Certainly it's important in all cases to realise that you're in a bad situation and try to find the will to deal with it, but don't be so quick to assume that those who don't or can't are weaklings.
I find it incredibly hard to believe that you were really depressed and simply told yourself "snap out of it, man" and it was all over. That sounds like either you weren't really depressed but had the blues OR you're fooling yourself by choking all emotion and convincing yourself that you're fine when that's not the case.
Even if we could assume that one can do such a thing and find himself/herself in such a level of self-awareness that s/he can simply snap out of depression, then it's too silly to say that everyone can do this. Maybe you're incredibly mature or blessed with brainwaves that ordinary people don't possess. That doesn't mean that everyone else is a weak idiot that wants an easy solution.
Many people try and try but can't find their way out. Many people have issues rooted so far back that they need YEARS of counselling and soul searching to find out what's wrong with them and the rip those bad things out. Others are severely depressed and need medication.
Of COURSE you have to want to deal with it. Of COURSE you need to try. But don't assume that's all it takes. That's only the beginning. Sometimes it's enough (and even then it takes a lot of time). Sometimes it's not enough.
Just because you don't want to die doesn't mean you have the will to live. Depression takes all will away from you. You must have no idea how much strength it takes to get up in the morning and go through your day when you're depressed. It's like trying to get out of bed when you've got a boulder smashing your body and everything is SCREAMING to you that you should just give up. Try telling that person that all it takes to cure him/her is a fun night out and aerobics. Try telling someone who can't find the will do the things s/he loved to do before that all it takes is for him/her to "snap out of it".
I think that your case must have been either a really mild one or not even that. Why? I explained the reasons above. Maybe you just don't know what depression is? Perhaps. Maybe you're one of those people who dismiss depression for reasons also stated above.
So please. Don't generalise.

T_E

T_E, are you sure you're only 19?

Twilight_Elena

10-01-2006, 07:30 PM

@ dgcasey:
Your first post (the one I replied to) showed a really different opinion and experience on the subject. Or at least myself and others were mislead into thinking that you were talking about it all very lightly. You said things like "it isnt that hard" and "depression can be conquered if a person truly wants to conquer it", and (at least for me) they all screamed generalisation and taking the subject lightly. I am sure you know that many people take depressionn lightly. Thankfully that is clearly not your opinion.
Whatever assumption I made about you I thought I made clear it was based on what I was reading in your post, and that alone. And for that reason I thought I made sure it wasn't taken as a careless profiling. Unfortunately, I hit a nerve with my inaccurate assumptions. People with too little experience on depression say things like this. But I forgot that the same thing can apply for people with too much. I'm sorry for forgetting that.
While I am finding your last post much more in agreement with my opinions (perhaps all it needed was clarification), I am still sceptical on some points. I agree that we do need to put pressure on ourselves to get out of a vicious, self-destructive cycle, but is that all? Even if you get up and tell yourself that you're going to stop this, is it going to get better? Doesn't it take time and most of the times external help (be it pills or psychologist help, whatever) to start feeling better?
How can you say it isn't hard? You describe a hellish experience but in your previous post say that it really isn't that hard... Can't you at least acknowledge the fact that it's not an easy decision or an easy road to choose?
And what about those that can't muster up the will to get out of their dark place? Not everyone knows what changes need to be done or what caused all that. What if what they need is some counselling to give them a push out of the door? This sort of "tough love" behaviour is what troubles me. I know many people that think you need to push yourself hard and build your damn bridge and get over it, but they also admit that many cases need therapy and others need meds. I don't know why you're so quick to diss therapy as something that doesn't really make a difference.
Also, countless trips to the pharmacy seem to help many people who have serotonin imbalance. Sometimes you're ready to build your bridge but need someone to help you find the mortar.
All that said, I think we're reaching an understanding. I hope you can see how your previous post sounded like and why those who posted after it reacted in a similar way as mine.
I also hope you read my last post (as well as this one) carefully. I was confused by your commenting on just the last quote. Does that mean you agree with the rest or did you just ignore it?

T_E

fascination

10-01-2006, 07:31 PM

waltzgirl

10-01-2006, 07:32 PM

have been able to see just by looking in the mirror; that I was severly underweight. Yes, he prescribed the "magic" pill and put me on Prednisone and then gave me a referral to a psychologist. He said that actually calling him and going to see him would be totally up to me, but he felt that it might help.

I filled the prescription the doctor gave me and started taking it. Within a week I was up about five pounds.

A couple of days later I was looking at my old bicycle, sitting in the corner with its flat tires and rusty chain and got the urge to get out. I spent about an hour going over the bike, getting it ready and then hit the road for a short, 35-mile spin. When I returned to the house, I felt like a two-ton weight had been lifted from my shoulders. Cycling is now an engraved in stone part of my life.

Thinking that going to the psych and getting the "magic" pill is going to make everything rosy is living a delusion. I'm sure that there are some, sitting around world right now, reading these words with their mouths wide open, not believing what they see on their screens. Maybe I am being a little tough; a little drill-sergeant like in my attitude, but I’ve been there and I can assure you that no one is going to get past depression until they get up, turn on the light and look at themselves in the mirror and decide that it’s time to move on. Countless trips to the therapist and the pharmacy are not going to change a damn thing until that person is ready to take charge of their own future. You want to leave your future in the hands of someone else? Then your future will always fit into their plans.
SIZE][/FONT]

I just googled "prednisone" and "mood" to confirm what I thought. Every site I looked at said that predinsone affects mood. Here's what one study found:

"Subjects with past or current symptoms of depression had a significant decrease in depressive symptoms during prednisone therapy compared with those without depression."

So I hate to break it to you, but you were being medicated for your mood (whether or not your doctor intended that). Chances are that's why you looked at your bike and suddenly felt like riding it. Unfortunately, chances are also that, if you had been given an anti-depressant instead, it wouldn't have taken a year for your symptoms to resolve (once you're on the right anti-depressant, it usually takes 6-8 weeks for significant improvement to occur.)

It's well-known that exercise by itself has mild anti-depressant effects, so if that controls your depression now, that's great!

Twilight_Elena

10-01-2006, 07:33 PM

T_E, are you sure you're only 19?

I stick to what my ID says. And it says "Not even 19, kiddo". :rolleyes:

T_E

Twilight_Elena

10-01-2006, 07:34 PM

fascination

10-01-2006, 07:37 PM

I think that's what I said. :confused:

T_E
we posted simultaneously dearie...it's all good

anp73ga31

10-01-2006, 08:45 PM

Oops! Sorry to have been the one who made the post that started this all over again, guys.

to dgcasey: yes, there were days that I sat in the middle of the floor and cried...because that was all I could do at that time, but that to me seems similiar to what you described yourself doing for a while when you could not get out of bed, etc. :confused: Obviously I worked through it, though, as did you...maybe we did it different ways, but the point is, we did it. At any rate, I DID tell myself all the time to get over it...but I had to wait for the rest of my brain to catch up, get over it, and get to the point of where I could fully snap out of it. Thus the reason for me sitting there, waiting, until my sub-concious and concious(or whatever its called) had caught up to one another. Perhaps that was not the correct way to do it, but I had no experience with what to do in a situation like that and I did the best I could. Anyway, I actually thought I had done pretty good, considering, because I was able to continue without my work being affected....oh well.

to everyone: In light of all this, I solemnly promise(hand raised in the air) to not post on old threads and to instead just send a private message to the person or persons I wish to thank for their posts and leave it at that. :) Lesson learned by the newbie! Lol!

cornutt

10-01-2006, 09:11 PM

okay...let's all cool it...there are elements of truth in all points of view...no one here is advocating a magic pill and sitting around waiting to feel happy...there is a place for initiative and a place for medical intervention and therapy...and the proper balnce of the three varies...let's all chill

I'm sorry, fascination, but I can't just let this go. Casey has dissed me and my experience. He has made himself out to be an expert on everybody's experience, which he assumes should be exactly like his. For your information, Mr. Casey, I spent twenty years of my life looking for that life-changing experience. I went through more isms than you can possibly count. I've experimented with about a dozen different religions, philosophies, and lifestyles. I've done the five-miles-on-the-beach-every-day routine. I've done the gym, the aerobics, the running. I've been through all kinds of diets and diet supplements. And yes, I had tried a few pills too (although I pushed that option away for a long time, after some bad experiences). What I didn't realize at the time was that an essential ingredient of my treatment was a drug that hadn't been invented yet, for a neuological disorder that brain research had yet to properly sort out.

And yes, I take a pill now. Every day. And I most likely will continue to do so for the rest of my life. It's an essential part of my continued survivial, just like food and water is. Of course, the pill isn't sufficient. It isn't a happy pill; all it does is strip the suffocating slime off of my brain so that I can experience emotions like normal people do. I still feel blues, grief, and sadness in situations where other people would feel the same. I still have to deal with baggage; the pill doesn't let me ignore it or hide from it, but it does allow me to deal with it rationally. I have ongoing therapy, although much reduced in frequency now. And yes, I made the lifestyle changes. Those things are important too. But without the pill, they aren't enough and never will be.

fascination

10-01-2006, 09:17 PM

cornutt...it is not my intent to squelch the conversation, only the tone...you make wonderful valid points, as always, and I am very glad that you have made them... I hope I understand what it is like to have someone think they understand but they really haven't been exactly in your shoes, only ones they think are similar...there is nothing more maddening than someone who thinks they are more certain about your own situation than you are...I have parted company with these sorts many times...all I am asking is that folks just endeavor not to get ugly..depression is a harrowing painful thing, and people are going to feel passionate about whatever way they have been fortunate enough to escape it...his way has been different than yours...I am hopeful that he can respect that...that is all...personally, I think near to anything that works should be supported

Laura

10-01-2006, 09:30 PM

And sometimes depression comes as part of a reaction to quantifiable, identifiable, outside sources. If your grandmother dies or you lose your job due to no fault of your own (let's say corporate accounting fraud and scandal, for instance) or your spouse suddenly reveals a decision to divorce you, you are going to feel depressed and being told to "just snap out of it" by going on a long bike ride is ludicrous. Fortunately, as everyone here has pointed out, there is a wide variety of treatments such that -- if the patient is willing and able to try different approaches -- something can and will be found to help work through the physical and psychological issues and hurts.

fascination

10-01-2006, 09:33 PM

precisely laura...some grief, some depression (as I noted) is reasonable...it needs to happen...and we haven't even gotten into seasonal affect...it just can't all be painted with one brush stroke which is what I think has people myself included, a bit er...revved up...

Laura

10-01-2006, 09:35 PM

Oh great, thanks for reminding me...I've got Seasonal Affective Disorder to look forward to. Heh. At least I know that it is coming and, thanks to some work I did with a doctor and a nutritionist a few years ago, I have ways of dealing with it.

Or maybe I'll just go to the Southern Hemisphere for a month in December or January (get the summer light there then).

fascination

10-01-2006, 09:37 PM

I use citris aroma therapy, a tanning bed, and DH and I do a carribean cruise every new years..but again, I do not have a hard core case of it...anyhow...pm me if ya wanna know which boat we'll be on

cornutt

10-01-2006, 09:54 PM

I will add this: There are a whole bunch of new anti-depressants on the market these days, and it seems like another new one turns up every week. In reading the various literature on how these things are perscribed and used, it appears that there is a non-trivial percentage of doctors who are not perscribing or managing them properly. In particular, there seem to be a fair number of doctors who really do treat them as happy pills -- they write out a perscription and send the patient away, with no further instructions. There may be some cases where a pill alone is the answer, but my guess is that such cases, if they exist, are few and far between. Generally a pill is only part of the answer, something to get the patient functional enough to take further action.

If the doctor just sends the patient away with a pill, and things don't improve, then the patient is forced to try to self-diagnose. That really isn't fair to the patient; after all, they aren't doctors. Sometimes the patient goes back to the doctor and says "It isn't working", and the doctor just cranks up the dose. This may in fact sorta kinda succeed in getting the patient blissed-out for a while. (The long-term effects are severe, though.)

So it's understandable that some people start to regard the drugs as happy pills, to be avoided. I can see that. I had some bad experiences with the crappy anti-depressants they had back in the '70s, and for literally decades after that, "no drugs" was my mantra. That's still a pretty good philosophy in general, but sometimes when you're sick, you need medicine. I finally had a therapist talk me into trying one of the new SSRIs a few years ago, and it changed my life. What needs to be avoided are doctors that don't know what they are doing. If you are suffering from depression and a doctor wants you to take a pill without any other therapy or treatment, run, don't walk, for the exit, and go get another opinion elsewhere. Actually, a good tactic is to start with a psychologist rather than a psychiatrist. The difference is that a psychologist isn't an M.D. and cannot perscribe, so he/she has no ulterior motive to suggest drugs.

cornutt

10-01-2006, 09:55 PM

Laura

10-01-2006, 10:46 PM

Someone I know has a mother from Central America, and she finds the light box to be very helpful -- she's used to much sunnier winters than we have here.

dgcasey

10-02-2006, 06:58 PM

I just googled "prednisone" and "mood" to confirm what I thought. Every site I looked at said that predinsone affects mood. Here's what one study found:

Prednisone is a drug that is prescribed for literally dozens of conditions, but most notably for inflammation control and organ transplant rejection. It is a steroid. It is also prescribed for heavy cases of asthma.

Why was it prescribed to me? Because I have a body full of arthritis, which would cause me severe pain every morning when I crawled out of bed. As you may have also found out in your studies, arthritis will have a tendancy to lower a person's appetite, thus causing the person to lose weight.

It was prescribed to me because, as a steroid, in combination with methotrexate, has the side-effect of causing weight gain in a fairly quick time frame, which is exactly what I needed. Could I have gained the same weight by switching to a 100% diet of fast food? Sure. It would have taken longer and probably would have been more detrimental to me than the prednisone and methotrexate, which by the way, have some of the most insidious side-effects you will ever see when taken long term. That's why I was only on it for four months before being tapered off by my doctor. And after four and half months I went from 145 pounds to 190 pounds.

As for mood alteration, the only reason it has an effect on moods is because it's not hard to start feeling better about yourself and your life when you can walk from the bedroom to the bathroom and not feel like you're walking on broken glass. There are much better drugs for mood modification than prednisone and there's probably not too many psychologists that would even dream of prescribing it for such conditions. It would be like prescribing aspirin for a broken leg.