Matters of the heart

[Shooshoo]

A couple of years ago I had this powerful crush on this guy I saw regularly. He was involved with someone and eventually got married, etc. I kept away and made it a point not to cross his path. I had strong feelings for quite a while and I felt very bad to have felt the way I did (since I couldn’t have him).

Today he is right in front of me and available and I don’t want him. I can’t believe how I feel. I know I can get him if I try, but these feelings I had just disappeared, as if it never happened?

I just can’t understand this heart of ours. Romantic love must be an illusion then, isn’t it? It’s not real, is it? And how would one know if there’s potential for something real. Is it just that one must take the risk and try and then if it turns to love, then great? Or is it that when I’m ready for a relationship, then everything will fall in place? Is it finding the compatible person or is it just a right time? Or maybe both? Or is it me that I fear commitment so I just fall for unavailable men or just in my mind where it’s safe not to get hurt?

It’s really confusing me this ‘human heart’? Does anyone here have any explanation? Is anyone here is as confused as I am?

[AzureDreamer]

I think that a lot of people when they are younger are more in love with the idea of being in love, than they are in love with the the other person. We want and need romance as much as we want and need someone else in our lives.

As we get older, you develop a better appreciation of what you actually want (both romance and a soulmate), and you get a bit pickier in your relationships. Sometimes you change.. what you value changes, and sometimes they change.

and sometimes, what attracted us to a person in the first place... that spark or energy is just subdued for a while... often happens after a bad break-up. Maybe just give it some time.

[Sabor]

maybe.. its cause u saw me .. all other men fade in comparison.. u know

HAHAHA.. j/k ;)

[SPratt74]

Today he is right in front of me and available and I don’t want him. I can’t believe how I feel. I know I can get him if I try, but these feelings I had just disappeared, as if it never happened?

I had dated a guy by the name of Dan for four years from 1997-2001 that my family loved and I had thought I loved. Everyone kept telling us that we were going to get married. It turned out, he e-mailed me (still don't know why he didn't call me), and told me that he had found another and was going to get married to her. I had a fit as you could imagine. But now after my recent x (a guy that I dated shortly after him) and I met and got together (according to him, but I never thought we were in a relationship then lol) in 2002, I realized what true love was even though things didn't work out... all the old feelings for Dan disappeared.

I just can’t understand this heart of ours. Romantic love must be an illusion then, isn’t it?

Romantic love happens if you make it romantic. Dan and I always made everything romatic even when we were just friends. But my recent x was far from romantic even though I still loved him lol.

It’s not real, is it? And how would one know if there’s potential for something real.

Let me tell you that true love is real. I hate to say it, but my x was right that true love is also hard. It's like you know if you are in love with the person, because you just can't live without them. And I don't mean hard like always making things difficult etc., you just have more feelings than just the casual fly by the night type of fling if this makes sense lol. And they always say that you will know, and believe me... you will know when you find the right one. You have to make things work, and this is where my problem was. But who knows, we could get together still a million years from now lol (unless I meet Max and his cute tushy first... of course tushy first.. I mean Max first, ok no his tushy lol, and I know someone that could make it possible right MQ)!:raisebro:

Is it just that one must take the risk and try and then if it turns to love, then great? Or is it that when I’m ready for a relationship, then everything will fall in place?

You know you have to take a risk in love. I know that I have said that I regretted telling my x how I feel (and have even said that to him whenever we would fight), but that's only when I miss the guy and wish I had him back in my life. But if I hadn't of told him how I felt, then nothing would have happened, and I wouldn't know anything now if I hadn't of tried.

And I hate to say this yet once again, but you have to work at being in a relationship. (Again my x was right about this too as to which I thought everything should have come easier, but don't ever tell him I said this lol.) The one that I can say I was truly in love with the guy (my x), we worked at and everyone around us worked at lol until they all wanted to kill us basically lol. We had fought more times probably than when we got along, but that's because we were working on our relationship. Nothing in life is easy in my opinion. I used to think so, but everything in life makes you work to a certain degree whether you like it or not lol.

Is it finding the compatible person or is it just a right time? Or maybe both?

I think that you have to find someone compatible and that it does have to be the right time, but being with that said... the relationship still might not work out. I think that with dating, everything happens because of fate etc. Yeah I know I'm a hopeless romantic. But I think that I've had all of my relationships happen because we were all compatible to a certain degree of course lol and it was the right time for that time being. Just cause something doesn't work out, that doesn't mean that it wasn't supposed to happen during that time. It just means that you are to learn from the situation and make sure you don't do it again umm... if it hurts you that is that type of thing.

Or is it me that I fear commitment so I just fall for unavailable men or just in my mind where it’s safe not to get hurt?

It's not you. Relationships happen when they are supposed to happen. You meet everyone in your life for a reason. Never look back and say that wasn't supposed to happen (even though some of us do to a certain degree lol), because that is what you were supposed to go through at that time. And for the most part we all like to take the safe route, but that doesn't mean that you aren't going to get hurt by taking the safe route. You will still get hurt, because that's all part of feelings and human nature and all of that mushy stuff lol.

It’s really confusing me this ‘human heart’? Does anyone here have any explanation? Is anyone here is as confused as I am?

I think that everyone has his or her own opinion of the human heart. That's why you'll see millions of books in a library full of theories regarding the human heart. But that's the thing. You can't really focus on what anyone else thinks, because it's your heart and it's how you feel. But I'm like you though that I love to get advice about this type of thing lol.

And don't worry about it. If there was anyone that I wanted to be with more than anything in this world, it was my x. When he broke up with me after a fight with my sister, my world collapsed. It was something I had never gone through before, not even with Dan. And it was hard like you couldn't believe to let go of him. We fought all the way up until February of this year (that's when I started dance), and I guess I kept thinking that he'd come back to me when I woke up one day and thought no... he's not coming back.

And what makes it even harder is that he found his trophy girlfriend that's perfect according to what they say (except no one really likes her from what I can tell hehe), and will probably marry her. Of course it doesn't help that when I told him where to go I also told him to go out and marry whomever. (That was a big mistake on my part.) But I think at the time that my emotions were so out of control, I felt like I was living in a different body like who is this person?

So, now I'm back at square one and I haven't the faintest idea as to how to even get out there and if I even want to at this point. I had two major failed relationships, and needless to say all of those dates that didn't work out as well, and you begin to wonder what's wrong with you. Why can't I be loved in the way that I want to be loved? I also have wondered to this day if my x were to come back to me what I would do, and would I take him back. I mean that you just go through all kinds of stuff. To me that's only normal when you are dealing with relationships though. Relationships aren't supposed to be easy. They are hard and they take work. Remember that.

*Edited this to add in one more answer and a few other things that I left out lol.;)

[bordertangoman]

i I may be becoming deeply cynical ( not to mention bitter and twisted)
but I suspect the idea of romantic love is just another biological imperative to trick us into reproducing.

One of the nicest relationships that I had began without falling in love and with very little expectation The love came later.

[SPratt74]

i I may be becoming deeply cynical ( not to mention bitter and twisted)
but I suspect the idea of romantic love is just another biological imperative to trick us into reproducing.

One of the nicest relationships that I had began without falling in love and with very little expectation The love came later.

Those are the best kind of relationships... when you start out as friends first. Except with me I can never find myself to go back to the guy as a friend after we had broken up. I just can't do that to myself, and that's the problem I have now with my x. We just couldn't go back to being friends, because there were to many feelings on my side that weren't the same when we were friends. I couldn't and can't handle the idea of being just friends.

[AzureDreamer]

but I suspect the idea of romantic love is just another biological imperative to trick us into reproducing.

oh come on!

How can you even dance and not say that you wouldn't really want to fly to austria and just waltz; like a prince in a fairly tale. or gamble in monaco and tango with seductive russian spies. or you get all teary eyed watching movies like pride and prejudice because they don't have dances like that anymore (how about the scene where they are dancing, and then its just them in the room, and it ends and then its a whole room of people again... I loved that!) and candlelit dinners, and whispered conversations... how can you not love that?

so what if its a trick... everyone love tricks, they are amusing and spice up an otherwise dull day... and its one good trick!

[SPratt74]

oh come on!

How can you even dance and not say that you wouldn't really want to fly to austria and just waltz; like a prince in a fairly tale. or gamble in monaco and tango with seductive russian spies. or you get all teary eyed watching movies like pride and prejudice because they don't have dances like that anymore (how about the scene where they are dancing, and then its just them in the room, and it ends and then its a whole room of people again... I loved that!) and candlelit dinners, and whispered conversations... how can you not love that?

so what if its a trick... everyone love tricks, they are amusing and spice up an otherwise dull day... and its one good trick!

Why is it that you and I can fight like cats and dogs over some issues, but completely agree on others? I actually agree with you. Oh except that to me there is no such thing as fairy tales lol. I know I believe in romance and fate etc., but even a prince is not always considered prince charming unless he shows up on a white horse with some chocolate, a ring, and a big smile on his face lol. But the rest of the stuff I agree with!!! Hey, that's a big step in the right direction for us I think!!!;)

[bordertangoman]

Those are the best kind of relationships... when you start out as friends first. Except with me I can never find myself to go back to the guy as a friend after we had broken up. I just can't do that to myself, and that's the problem I have now with my x. We just couldn't go back to being friends, because there were to many feelings on my side that weren't the same when we were friends. I couldn't and can't handle the idea of being just friends.


Me neither.

[AzureDreamer]

but even a prince is not always considered prince charming unless he shows up on a white horse with some chocolate, a ring, and a big smile on his face lol

A couple of years my girlfriend at the time and I made a new year's resolution to only have chocolate when we were kissing each other... not allowed at any other time! We later broadened it so that we could have a piece during the day, but you had to call up the other person and, uh, well... conversations tended towards the naughty side. A box of chocolates was a statement... and chocolate sauce, not even going to go there!

[SPratt74]

A couple of years my girlfriend at the time and I made a new year's resolution to only have chocolate when we were kissing each other... not allowed at any other time! We later broadened it so that we could have a piece during the day, but you had to call up the other person and, uh, well... conversations tended towards the naughty side. A box of chocolates was a statement... and chocolate sauce, not even going to go there!

Lol! Yeah, but you'll be hard pressed to find any woman agreeing to that kind of commitment no matter how sexual you might make it out to be. Sorry, but when I want chocolate, you better get out of my way when I head to the cubbard to get some!:mad: :D

[AzureDreamer]

Sorry, but when I want chocolate, you better get out of my way

mmm... so much better to wait for it ... think about it... fantasize about it... tease yourself with it... talk about it... how good it will feel as it first slides onto the tip of the tongue... how you can already smell the heady perfume of the chocolate as it slowly starts to melt in your mouth... :D

[SPratt74]

mmm... so much better to wait for it ... think about it... fantasize about it... tease yourself with it... talk about it... how good it will feel as it first slides onto the tip of the tongue... how you can already smell the heady perfume of the chocolate as it slowly starts to melt in your mouth... :D

Nope! Sorry. Doesn't work for me!;)

[Shooshoo]

I think that a lot of people when they are younger are more in love with the idea of being in love,


I'm 36!!!

[Shooshoo]

maybe.. its cause u saw me .. all other men fade in comparison.. u know

HAHAHA.. j/k ;)

http://fool.exler.ru/sm/wink.gif


You didn't answer all the questions!!!

[Shooshoo]

Let me tell you that true love is real. I hate to say it, but my x was right that true love is also hard. It's like you know if you are in love with the person, because you just can't live without them.


I'm sure it is, cause I believe in love, as in friendships, between people, etc.
I don't know about 'just can't live without them". People in general are survivors and also people forget. You can maybe miss someone or feel bad that you don't have them, but you can always live without them



Relationships aren't supposed to be easy. They are hard and they take work. Remember that.

:( . That's what everyone says.... I want it easy and simple.

[Shooshoo]

but I suspect the idea of romantic love is just another biological imperative to trick us into reproducing.


Yeah, that's what many science books say.

But c'mon, people are also different. Some are more romantic than others, some more practical, some just want to reproduce.

[Shooshoo]

Nope! Sorry. Doesn't work for me!;)

Me neither :) .

[Shooshoo]

What confuses me is how the feelings of heart changes. And how much love one needs to feel to get in a relationship. What also confuses me also is that it's so easy for some people and then so difficult for others.

[bordertangoman]

What confuses me is how the feelings of heart changes. And how much love one needs to feel to get in a relationship. What also confuses me also is that it's so easy for some people and then so difficult for others.


"Love is not love that alters when it alteration finds. "
Shakespeare

[SPratt74]

What confuses me is how the feelings of heart changes. And how much love one needs to feel to get in a relationship. What also confuses me also is that it's so easy for some people and then so difficult for others.

I think that there are some people that like the idea of love, and that's when you fall in and out of love a lot. (I accused my x of this in fact, and unfortunately for me it was true whether he will ever admit it or not.) This leads me to believe that these people aren't really in love even if the other person is in love in the relationship. This to me is also why it's easy for some people and difficult for others. ;)

[SPratt74]

I'm sure it is, cause I believe in love, as in friendships, between people, etc.
I don't know about 'just can't live without them". People in general are survivors and also people forget. You can maybe miss someone or feel bad that you don't have them, but you can always live without them

True, but then there are movies like The Notebook, and another one that I watched this past weekend that made me cry it was so sweet, but I can't remember what it was and the couples couldn't live without each other in life and death lol. But I don't mean "to live with out them" means to live without them like in life or death. I mean that you won't ever forget them. That they will always be in your heart no matter what as long as you live. :p

:( . That's what everyone says.... I want it easy and simple.

We would all love this!!!;)

[AzureDreamer]

I'm 36!!!

I don't believe it, not a day over 28. but presumably you were younger when you first met this guy... and may have been attracted to what he represented at the time... adventure, attention, novelty, a status symbol.

I want it easy and simple.

I've been in easy and simple relationships, very 'practical'... all of the romance of a corporate merger. The kind of thing you fall into because its less work than not falling into it. and I've been deeply unhappy, and had absolutely no reason to be. Like you are missing something, something important, and you don't know exactly what it is... but you know its not there. and you feel terrible because you have this "perfect relationship" and it just isn't. and you can't even explain it to everyone. and its not like you ever wanted to be here, it just happened... it was never a concious decisions to move things forward. and you feel trapped, because there is no way out of it without really hurting someone who doesn't deserve to be hurt, and knowing your family and friends will never understand. Well, what I am saying is that easy and simple relationships have a way of turning really hard and complex... and maybe if they were a bit harder up front, had a couple points where you had to make a decision to go forward, you wouldn't have let it go on so long and made such a wreck of it all.

We would all love this!!!

well, no, not ALL of us. :(

[hello]

Love is when you love the person more than yourself. When you put his/her well-being before yours. I'm not talking codependent, desparate, destructive actions that debilitate your life, but selfless acts you don't even realize you are doing for another person. For me, love has happened when that person needed me the most. I know it's love because I want to protect this person from pain at any cost. Love sneaks up on you. Love is the ultimate force in humanity. It's just about finding the other person that feels the same way about love that you do. Ok, and a little attractiveness helps:)

The trend I see occurring, single people struggling to find love, many putting off marriage til late 30s, 40s, +, is that society, culture and people are more complicated now. We desire more things, have more particular standards (note I didn't say higher!). Of course it's going to be harder to find the right love of your life, because life is always changing. I think people who find one person to love the rest of their lives are rare, but not necessarily luckier or happier. Maybe life is more interesting if you have more than one love. And of course, anything truly special is truly rare. I think love is not easy to find, but when one does, then it is "easy." Meaning, you don't question yourself, you just know, because you love the other person.

[Shooshoo]

I don't believe it, not a day over 28. but presumably you were younger when you first met this guy... and may have been attracted to what he represented at the time... adventure, attention, novelty, a status symbol.



How how do you Mr. AzureDreamer don't believe I'm a day over 28???


Like you are missing something, something important, and you don't know exactly what it is... but you know its not there. and you feel terrible because you have this "perfect relationship" and it just isn't. and you can't even explain it to everyone. and its not like you ever wanted to be here, it just happened... it was never a concious decisions to move things forward. and you feel trapped, because there is no way out of it without really hurting someone who doesn't deserve to be hurt, and knowing your family and friends will never understand. Well, what I am saying is that easy and simple relationships have a way of turning really hard and complex... and maybe if they were a bit harder up front, had a couple points where you had to make a decision to go forward, you wouldn't have let it go on so long and made such a wreck of it all.

I can relate to what you're saying cause if my first boyfriend hadn't dumped I'm sure I would have married him and ended up like what you descibed above. Something was missing, but nothing was wrong (I'm sure he felt the same way).


what I am saying is that easy and simple relationships have a way of turning really hard and complex...
I don't believe that's a rule. I've seen many relationships start easy and simple and stays that way (to a certain level).

[Shooshoo]

Love is when you love the person more than yourself.
Don't really agree.

When you put his/her well-being before yours.
I'm not sure about that either? When I think of who I love, for example family members, it's that I love them and give without waiting for something in return, or you know what you're getting in turn so you're happy about it.
But you will get something in return, either a smile, appreciation, support, etc. So it is a give and take relationship.

Love sneaks up on you. Love is the ultimate force in humanity. It's just about finding the other person that feels the same way about love that you do. Ok, and a little attractiveness helps:)
That's more of what I could believe.

[SPratt74]

Love is when you love the person more than yourself. When you put his/her well-being before yours. I'm not talking codependent, desparate, destructive actions that debilitate your life, but selfless acts you don't even realize you are doing for another person. For me, love has happened when that person needed me the most. I know it's love because I want to protect this person from pain at any cost. Love sneaks up on you. Love is the ultimate force in humanity. It's just about finding the other person that feels the same way about love that you do. Ok, and a little attractiveness helps:)


Oh I so completely agree! I felt and feel this way about my x. I know I still give him grief, but I would do anything for him if he were to come back into my life. And I did everything for him, so you would probably think differently wouldn't you lol? Not because of who he was or what he did or that I felt like I needed to. No. I did those things because I loved him, and really you don't even think about doing the things when you do them, because you love the other person so much.

In fact, you don't even think about them thanking you everytime or even smiling at you everytime for that matter. You do those things unconditionally without expecting anything in return. What's funny is that I told him to stop thanking me etc. for everything, because he would thank me for even saying hi to him lol, but this was because I didn't care to be thanked and given things in return like what he was used to doing. I just knew that he loved me and that was all I needed to know. (Although, hearing them say I love you now and then is alright!!! He was good at this part, and that was good enough for me!!!);)

[AzureDreamer]

Love is when you love the person more than yourself. When you put his/her well-being before yours.

I think its very different for me. Love is when making someone else happy is what makes you happy. Its not that you are putting them before yourself... its the recognition that what you want most is to satisfy them, make them happy, fufill their needs. Love is fundamentally selfish, even greedy. Its not a give and take, its not some kind of reciprocity; its giving without any expectation or need for anything else... because that giving is what is important to you. Its not an obligation, a sacrifice, or a compromise... its a privilege.

[bordertangoman]

I think its very different for me. Love is when making someone else happy is what makes you happy. Its not that you are putting them before yourself... its the recognition that what you want most is to satify them, make them happy, fufill their needs. Love is fundamentally selfish, even greedy. Its not a give and take, its not some kind of reciprocity; its giving without any expectation or need for anything else... because that giving is what is important to you. Its not an obligation, a sacrifice, or a compromise... its a privilege.

I think there is a wonderful positive feedback loop here. When you are delighted in the other person's delight.....

[Sabor]

yeah.. i agree shooshoo.. matters of the booty are so important

[Shooshoo]

Its not a give and take, its not some kind of reciprocity; its giving without any expectation or need for anything else... because that giving is what is important to you. Its not an obligation, a sacrifice, or a compromise... its a privilege.

I still seem to disagree here. I believe there's some kind of reciprocity, especially in a man-woman relationship. How long can you keep giving love and not getting any back?
Yes, its a privilege, if you get this love back in some form.

[Shooshoo]

yeah.. i agree shooshoo.. matters of the booty are so important

yes sabor...booties are very important.

[AzureDreamer]

I still seem to disagree here. I believe there's some kind of reciprocity, especially in a man-woman relationship. How long can you keep giving love and not getting any back?

well, I feel like there are a number of people I am still deeply in love with that I couldn't, for one reason or another, stay in a long-term relationship with; you need other things to make relationships work too... love is necessary, but not sufficient.... loyalty, consideration/respect, shared goals/interests are also considerations... besides them being in love with you as well.

but I don't want someone to just try to satisfy me out of some sense of obligation or reciprocity... only because they really were comfortable to and really wanted to. Their desire, even need, to see me pleased is at least as important to me as 'getting some'.

but my loving them doesn't depend on that feeling being returned.

I think there is a wonderful positive feedback loop here. When you are delighted in the other person's delight.....

yeah, the best.

[Shooshoo]

beside them being in love with you as well.

so you need to get something in return?

[Shooshoo]

but my loving them doesn't depend on that feeling being returned.


Maybe we have different definitions here for the wordings.
In mine, I wouldn't call that 'real love'. For me it more of affection, admiration, obsession. That's why I feel in a way it's also a mind thing. Not real.

Anyway, that's why I'm pretty confused.

[Shooshoo]

I got this in my email today. I think I'll just agree with the little kids (even I don't agree with all of them).:p




Slow down for three minutes to read this. It is so worth it.
Touching words from the mouth of babes.
What does Love mean?
A group of professional people posed this question to a group of 4 to 8 year-olds, "What does love mean?"

The answers they got were broader and deeper than anyone could have imagined. See what you think :


_____
"When my grandmother got arthritis, she couldn't bend over and paint her toenails anymore.
So my grandfather does it for her all the time, even when his hands got arthritis too. That's love."
Rebecca- age 8
_____
"When someone loves you, the way they say your name is different.
You just know that your name is safe in their mouth."
Billy - age 4 (I love this one)
_____
"Love is when a girl puts on perfume and a boy puts on shaving cologne and they go out and smell each other."
Karl - age 5
_____
"Love is when you go out to eat and give somebody most of your French fries without making them give you any of theirs."
Chrissy - age 6
___
"Love is what makes you smile when you're tired."
Terri - age 4
_____
"Love is when my mommy makes coffee for my daddy and she takes a sip before giving it to him, to make sure the taste is OK."
Danny - age 7
_____
"Love is when you kiss all the time. Then when you get tired of kissing, you still want to be together and you talk more.
My Mommy and Daddy are like that. They look gross when they kiss"
Emily - age 8
_____
"Love is what's in the room with you at Christmas if you stop opening presents and listen."
Bobby - age 7 (Wow!)
_____
"If you want to learn to love better, you should start with a friend who you hate,"
Nikka - age 6
(we need a few million more Nikka's on this planet)
_____
"Love is when you tell a guy you like his shirt, then he wears it everyday."
Noelle - age 7
_____
"Love is like a little old woman and a little old man who are still friends even after they know each other so well."
Tommy - age 6
_____
"Love is when Mommy gives Daddy the best piece of chicken."
Elaine-age 5
_____
"Love is when Mommy sees Daddy smelly and sweaty and still says he is handsomer than Robert Redford."
Chris - age 7
_____
"Love is when your puppy licks your face even after you left him alone all day."
Mary Ann - age 4
_____
"I know my older sister loves me because she gives me all her old clothes and has to go out and buy new ones."
Lauren - age 4
_____
"When you love somebody, your eyelashes go up and down and little stars come out of you." (what an image)
Karen - age 7
_____
"Love is when Mommy sees Daddy on the toilet and she doesn't think it's gross."
Mark - age 6
_____
"You really shouldn't say 'I love you' unless you mean it. But if you mean it, you should say it a lot. People forget."
Jessica - age 8

_____
And the final one -- Author and lecturer Leo Buscaglia once talked about a contest he was asked to judge.
The purpose of the contest was to find the most caring child.
The winner was a four year old child whose next door neighbor was an elderly gentleman who had recently lost his wife.
Upon seeing the man cry, the little boy went into the old gentleman's yard, climbed onto his lap, and just sat there.
When his Mother asked what he had said to the neighbor, the little boy said,
"Nothing, I just helped him cry"

[AzureDreamer]

"Love is when a girl puts on perfume and a boy puts on shaving cologne and they go out and smell each other."
Karl - age 5

mmmm... not sure this is 'love', but I prefer this one anyway :raisebro: :raisebro: :raisebro:

[AzureDreamer]

In mine, I wouldn't call that 'real love'. For me it more of affection, admiration, obsession. That's why I feel in a way it's also a mind thing. Not real.

well, what you call "love" I might call a "soulmate" ... really being in synch, feeling the same intensity, sharing the same values, a true partnership. For me, "love" is one component of that, my emotional state.

and "just being in the mind" doesn't make it any less important or real. If anything, to me that matters even more. 'Why' someone does something is at least as important as 'what' they do.

[bordertangoman]

well, what you call "love" I might call a "soulmate" ... really being in synch, feeling the same intensity, sharing the same values, a true partnership. For me, "love" is one component of that, my emotional state.

and "just being in the mind" doesn't make it any less important or real. If anything, to me that matters even more. 'Why' someone does something is at least as important as 'what' they do.


A buddhist monk's (contemproary ie still alive) take on love is that it is understanding of the other person. If you know what makes that person happy or sad and give them something that they like then that's one example, and conversely if you make a guess and they don't like it and you don't know, its not love.

(Discuss) ;)

[alemana]

The winner was a four year old child whose next door neighbor was an elderly gentleman who had recently lost his wife.[/FONT][/COLOR]
Upon seeing the man cry, the little boy went into the old gentleman's yard, climbed onto his lap, and just sat there.
When his Mother asked what he had said to the neighbor, the little boy said,
"Nothing, I just helped him cry"



freaking hell that just made me cry.

[cl5814]

... and may have been attracted to what he represented at the time... adventure, attention, novelty, a status symbol.

had a couple points where you had to make a decision to go forward, you wouldn't have let it go on so long


Wise words.

What to do in the situation where one person made a firm decision to not go forward, but the other party is still clinging onto "something" ?? One person is ice-freezing cold, the other fiery warm. So, once a decision has been made by either party; respect it.

[ssjss]

Thanks Shooshoo for posting the response from the children. It shows that innocence can still be stronger than experience at times. The same goes for Love. I can't begin to try to explain it, but I shure do like it when it comes around. I just try not to hold on to tightly, but still feed the little monster.

[cl5814]

Love is when you love the person more than yourself. When you put his/her well-being before yours. I'm not talking codependent, desparate, destructive actions that debilitate your life, but selfless acts you don't even realize you are doing for another person.

The other person's well-being. Putting somebody else's well-being above yourself. Strong, but interesting statements. Let me explain...

Do you _really_ understand the other person's needs and wants ? Or do you try and unconsciously/consciously (don't know ??) force _your_ needs and wants onto the other person _thinking_ it is what the other person wants ? I have seen this situation, when soon after you meet someone, you start getting requests to alter something physical about you (hair color, hair length, style; clothes; shoes and then you start forcing the person to not go to place X but go to place Y for coffee/dinner/lunch; organizing that the other person be layed off by his/her boss so that the other person doesn't have to work; suggesting/asking/demanding the other person move to state E. I am not exaggerating, i have seen it happen. Is this putting the other person's well-being first or your well-being ? ( I smell something, and you the reader ??)

Normal requests that may start small, but grow in demand; all supposedly in the name of "the other person's well-being". So, is this _trying_ to put someone else's well-being above yourself as seen from _your_ perspective or what you _think_ the other person would view as caring and loving ? Or maybe really what the other person wants and needs....... (if so, then congratulations!) A very fine line in my opinion.......

In conclusion, make sure that you are familiar with the other person's wants and needs before acting.

[cl5814]

How long can you keep giving love and not getting any back?


In one case, i know of, a loooooong time. more than 3 years, actually. I won't say "giving love" but "giving something, though it be rejected". Does it take that long to get the message ?

[cl5814]

A buddhist monk's (contemproary ie still alive) take on love is that it is understanding of the other person. If you know what makes that person happy or sad and give them something that they like then that's one example, and conversely if you make a guess and they don't like it and you don't know, its not love.

(Discuss) ;)

I agree with the understanding part. It is all about understanding the person. Yet, it goes deeper than just giving someone something. It is that look that speaks a thousand words......knowing almost exactly what that person thinks; say both are looking at the latest fashion in window display. Knowing that if husband and wife would get separated (in 2 diff cars) on the highway; they'll know what the other person is likely to do. Stop and wait in the emergency lane; take the next exit and wait; just meet at destination (given both know where it is). No cell phone call needed. That i think is understanding.....

[SPratt74]

Wise words.

What to do in the situation where one person made a firm decision to not go forward, but the other party is still clinging onto "something" ?? One person is ice-freezing cold, the other fiery warm. So, once a decision has been made by either party; respect it.

That's the hardest thing to do though. I know for I was there this past year. It was like my x was ice cold, and I was still clinging. You would think that we both would respect the other, but that's not what happened. In fact, we had a really bad ending. We didn't even have a closure as to which I really wish one would take place, but it's not going to happen. And maybe I wouldn't have clung so much though if we had a good ending. One where he was truthfully honest with me instead of just telling me what he thought I wanted to hear that type of thing, because that only makes me mad. I'm like be honest with me. I deserve that much.

[SPratt74]

I agree with the understanding part. It is all about understanding the person. Yet, it goes deeper than just giving someone something. It is that look that speaks a thousand words......knowing almost exactly what that person thinks; say both are looking at the latest fashion in window display. Knowing that if husband and wife would get separated (in 2 diff cars) on the highway; they'll know what the other person is likely to do. Stop and wait in the emergency lane; take the next exit and wait; just meet at destination (given both know where it is). No cell phone call needed. That i think is understanding.....

Yeah, this I agree with. My x and I fought at the end. And one of the things that I had mentioned was how well we knew each other. He knew where I would fail, and it was like he wanted me to fail at that point. I was deeply hurt. But to this day, I know exactly how he does things and what's really going on in his mind more than anyone else even though everyone thinks he's so great just cause he's a good actor and can fool people lol. But I know. And I know what his intentions are when he does things just like how he knows me. But that's when the trouble starts sometimes though. I think that if you know the other person to well, then you can play on their downside and use that against him like what he did with me even though I think that's wrong. But to me it's like this only happens when one person isn't really in love with the other like how he wasn't in love with me (even though he said so doesn't make it true).

[hello]

I still seem to disagree here. I believe there's some kind of reciprocity, especially in a man-woman relationship. How long can you keep giving love and not getting any back?
Yes, its a privilege, if you get this love back in some form.


I think I understand what you are saying. Love takes different forms. There is love that is reciprocated, and love that isn't. To be in a healthy lasting real relationship, I believe the love is reciprocated. But life isn't always so kind or simple. I've loved twice without receiving it in return. That's when I know it's time to move on, but it was nevertheless love for me.

[hello]

The other person's well-being. Putting somebody else's well-being above yourself. Strong, but interesting statements. Let me explain...

Do you _really_ understand the other person's needs and wants ? Or do you try and unconsciously/consciously (don't know ??) force _your_ needs and wants onto the other person _thinking_ it is what the other person wants ? I have seen this situation, when soon after you meet someone, you start getting requests to alter something physical about you (hair color, hair length, style; clothes; shoes and then you start forcing the person to not go to place X but go to place Y for coffee/dinner/lunch; organizing that the other person be layed off by his/her boss so that the other person doesn't have to work; suggesting/asking/demanding the other person move to state E. I am not exaggerating, i have seen it happen. Is this putting the other person's well-being first or your well-being ? ( I smell something, and you the reader ??)

Normal requests that may start small, but grow in demand; all supposedly in the name of "the other person's well-being". So, is this _trying_ to put someone else's well-being above yourself as seen from _your_ perspective or what you _think_ the other person would view as caring and loving ? Or maybe really what the other person wants and needs....... (if so, then congratulations!) A very fine line in my opinion.......

In conclusion, make sure that you are familiar with the other person's wants and needs before acting.


That's why my initial post stated actions that are not debilitating, destructive, etc. I only speak of this in hindsight. I knew it was real love because the person grew, became a better person, wanted to become a better person. Their family said he was a better person because of me. That is the way I knew my presence was positive.

Funny the scenarios you mentioned, changing someone's hair color, clothes, etc. If you actually met me, and knew me better, you'd realize I'm the antithesis of this kind of behavior. I don't care what people wear or look like. I never try to change people. People are who they are and I accept everyone the way they are.

The kind of change I'm talking about is encouraging your love to go for that promotion or travel somewhere they've always wanted to go, or start a volunteer project. Do something he/she maybe hesistated at first and just needed that extra encouragement and support. Fulfilling his/her dreams.

Your words are wise though, it's a very fine line to walk, but if one can, it's pure magic.

[terremoto]

I guess the question becomes - what is falling in love? Is it simply the euphoric feelings that you get when you are around this person or when you think of this person? If so, then yes, I would say this is a biological trick to get us to reproduce. But is love something more? Is love more about connecting with that person and creating something else. What I mean by this is, in a loving relationship you have you, the other person, (maybe a third person if you are really kinky - just kidding) and then you have the relationship. The relationship is what binds the two of you - in that sense - it is more than just a euphoric feeling. Its a seperate bond that develops over time.

As for experiences with not wanting someone that you at one time wanted - I have had that same experience. I actually met this lady when I was like 17 years old - we kept running into eachother and there was definately a strong connection between the two of us - but everytime we saw eachother one of us was dating someone else. And then ten years later - wallah, we were both single - went on a date and i was so excited! Finally!!! But then about mid way through the date, I wanted the date to end. The feelings I had for her, the attraction - gone. Not because of something she said or did, but they were just gone. Poof - vanished! For whatever reason people change and our desires change. This is probably pretty normal.

[Shooshoo]

Wise words.

What to do in the situation where one person made a firm decision to not go forward, but the other party is still clinging onto "something" ?? One person is ice-freezing cold, the other fiery warm. So, once a decision has been made by either party; respect it.

This is one with a borken heart:rolleyes: .

[Shooshoo]

I can't begin to try to explain it, but I shure do like it when it comes around. I just try not to hold on to tightly, but still feed the little monster.

I understand love quite well in my relationships with family, friends, but I have a difficulty in understanding it with men. It seems more simple.

[Shooshoo]

Does it take that long to get the message ?
I think this differs from one individual to another.

[Shooshoo]

One where he was truthfully honest with me instead of just telling me what he thought I wanted to hear that type of thing, because that only makes me mad. I'm like be honest with me. I deserve that much.

I agree with you Spratt74, I believe honesty is the best even if it hurts. It's easier to deal with the consquences. But this is one of the bad approaches many men use. They don't like confrontation.

[Shooshoo]

I guess the question becomes - what is falling in love? Is it simply the euphoric feelings that you get when you are around this person or when you think of this person? If so, then yes, I would say this is a biological trick to get us to reproduce. But is love something more? Is love more about connecting with that person and creating something else. What I mean by this is, in a loving relationship you have you, the other person, (maybe a third person if you are really kinky - just kidding) and then you have the relationship. The relationship is what binds the two of you - in that sense - it is more than just a euphoric feeling. Its a seperate bond that develops over time.


that's exlpains something simply. I don't want to get into understanding why one falls for one and not the other. Better left as is.


As for experiences with not wanting someone that you at one time wanted - I have had that same experience. I actually met this lady when I was like 17 years old - we kept running into eachother and there was definately a strong connection between the two of us - but everytime we saw eachother one of us was dating someone else. And then ten years later - wallah, we were both single - went on a date and i was so excited! Finally!!! But then about mid way through the date, I wanted the date to end. The feelings I had for her, the attraction - gone. Not because of something she said or did, but they were just gone. Poof - vanished! For whatever reason people change and our desires change. This is probably pretty normal.

This is one point I think of that many times it was maybe just attraction and being built in the mind, but then it goes 'poff'.
I guess that's a good reason to help one accept that if something does work out or the feeling is not mutual. Maybe the feeling was all an illusion.

[DancePoet]

A couple of years ago I had this powerful crush on this guy I saw regularly. He was involved with someone and eventually got married, etc. I kept away and made it a point not to cross his path. I had strong feelings for quite a while and I felt very bad to have felt the way I did (since I couldn’t have him).

Today he is right in front of me and available and I don’t want him. I can’t believe how I feel. I know I can get him if I try, but these feelings I had just disappeared, as if it never happened?

I just can’t understand this heart of ours. Romantic love must be an illusion then, isn’t it? It’s not real, is it? And how would one know if there’s potential for something real. Is it just that one must take the risk and try and then if it turns to love, then great? Or is it that when I’m ready for a relationship, then everything will fall in place? Is it finding the compatible person or is it just a right time? Or maybe both? Or is it me that I fear commitment so I just fall for unavailable men or just in my mind where it’s safe not to get hurt?

It’s really confusing me this ‘human heart’? Does anyone here have any explanation? Is anyone here is as confused as I am?
Well, it's really just bio-chemistry kicking into action. It's real. And if you are measuring relationship potential purely on bio-chem, likely not a good idea. Make choices about what you want in a relationship and then you can go find it. You can choose, and hopefully you can find someone as equally commited as you. It's not easy, but it can happen. :cool:

[DancePoet]

maybe.. its cause u saw me .. all other men fade in comparison.. u know

HAHAHA.. j/k ;)
Ah! Now here is the shameless plug I was expecting on the other thread. ;) :lol:

[Shooshoo]

Well, it's really just bio-chemistry kicking into action. It's real. And if you are measuring relationship potential purely on bio-chem, likely not a good idea. Make choices about what you want in a relationship and then you can go find it. You can choose, and hopefully you can find someone as equally commited as you. It's not easy, but it can happen. :cool:

:kissme:

[DancePoet]

I had dated a guy by the name of Dan for four years from 1997-2001 that my family loved and I had thought I loved. Everyone kept telling us that we were going to get married. It turned out, he e-mailed me (still don't know why he didn't call me), and told me that he had found another and was going to get married to her. I had a fit as you could imagine. But now after my recent x (a guy that I dated shortly after him) and I met and got together (according to him, but I never thought we were in a relationship then lol) in 2002, I realized what true love was even though things didn't work out... all the old feelings for Dan disappeared.
Found another and was going to get married??? Wow.

You know you have to take a risk in love. I know that I have said that I regretted telling my x how I feel (and have even said that to him whenever we would fight), but that's only when I miss the guy and wish I had him back in my life. But if I hadn't of told him how I felt, then nothing would have happened, and I wouldn't know anything now if I hadn't of tried.
You have the right idea. You maybe taking a risk when you tell someone how you feel, yet honesty really can be very important to the long term health of a relationship. If the other person can't accept the truth, then they are likely not going to make a super match for you. Just don't forget to analyze your feelings before spouting off too much. ;)

So, now I'm back at square one and I haven't the faintest idea as to how to even get out there and if I even want to at this point. I had two major failed relationships, and needless to say all of those dates that didn't work out as well, and you begin to wonder what's wrong with you. Why can't I be loved in the way that I want to be loved? I also have wondered to this day if my x were to come back to me what I would do, and would I take him back. I mean that you just go through all kinds of stuff. To me that's only normal when you are dealing with relationships though. Relationships aren't supposed to be easy. They are hard and they take work. Remember that.
Take your time. Love yourself first, and in the way you want to be loved. You'll be ok. You have a strong positive attitude, and with a bit of confidence and believing in yourself, you can have much joy. :cool:

[DancePoet]

i I may be becoming deeply cynical ( not to mention bitter and twisted)
but I suspect the idea of romantic love is just another biological imperative to trick us into reproducing.

One of the nicest relationships that I had began without falling in love and with very little expectation The love came later.
Nope, just being realistic. :cool:

[DancePoet]

A couple of years my girlfriend at the time and I made a new year's resolution to only have chocolate when we were kissing each other... not allowed at any other time! We later broadened it so that we could have a piece during the day, but you had to call up the other person and, uh, well... conversations tended towards the naughty side. A box of chocolates was a statement... and chocolate sauce, not even going to go there!
Called my SO to leave a voice mail at work telling her she was yummier then chocolate.

:bouncy:

[DancePoet]

[QUOTE=hello]Love is when you love the person more than yourself. When you put his/her well-being before yours. I'm not talking codependent, desparate, destructive actions that debilitate your life, but selfless acts you don't even realize you are doing for another person. For me, love has happened when that person needed me the most. I know it's love because I want to protect this person from pain at any cost. ... Ok, and a little attractiveness helps:)[quote]
This can be a dangerous approach. Becareful.

[DancePoet]

Yeah, this I agree with. My x and I fought at the end. And one of the things that I had mentioned was how well we knew each other. He knew where I would fail, and it was like he wanted me to fail at that point. I was deeply hurt. But to this day, I know exactly how he does things and what's really going on in his mind more than anyone else even though everyone thinks he's so great just cause he's a good actor and can fool people lol. But I know. And I know what his intentions are when he does things just like how he knows me. But that's when the trouble starts sometimes though. I think that if you know the other person to well, then you can play on their downside and use that against him like what he did with me even though I think that's wrong. But to me it's like this only happens when one person isn't really in love with the other like how he wasn't in love with me (even though he said so doesn't make it true).
Two observations:

1. It is beginning to seem as if the situation was very unhealthy.
2. It seems as if you are slowly working through the loss, which means you will eventually find a new beginning and then be ready for a healthier relationship.

[DancePoet]

:kissme:
:kissme:

[SPratt74]

I agree with you Spratt74, I believe honesty is the best even if it hurts. It's easier to deal with the consquences. But this is one of the bad approaches many men use. They don't like confrontation.

Oh you are telling me! Men so do not like confrontations. It's sort of sad really, becasue they are the ones that end up getting hurt in the end for the most part of course you know depending on what the fight was about lol while us girls have gone on to better and bigger bodies and tushy's like Max from DWTS lol. ;) Ok, a girl can dream can't she lol??? :rolleyes:

[SPratt74]

Found another and was going to get married??? Wow.

Yeah, but maybe I wasn't ready for that like I thought I was. Either way, God put a stop to it for some reason. I just have to tell myself that something will happen again when the right time does hit! But why is it that when you are in that strong of a relationship, that you always think it's the right time, but you end up getting hurt?

You have the right idea. You maybe taking a risk when you tell someone how you feel, yet honesty really can be very important to the long term health of a relationship. If the other person can't accept the truth, then they are likely not going to make a super match for you. Just don't forget to analyze your feelings before spouting off too much. ;)

That's true. I did try to look at it that way, but honestly my thoughts didn't make much sense until you said them the right way for me lol. ;)

Take your time. Love yourself first, and in the way you want to be loved. You'll be ok. You have a strong positive attitude, and with a bit of confidence and believing in yourself, you can have much joy. :cool:

Thank you for the compliments! I guess it's like if I take my time, then I begin to wonder what's wrong with me lol. You know like why is it taking so long for someone to love me? And it's funny, because I'm such a strong person in a lot of areas, but not when it comes to love. It's like I become this vulnerable mushy person all the sudden, and I lose track of who I am, or maybe that's the real me. I don't know lol.

[AzureDreamer]

Called my SO to leave a voice mail at work telling her she was yummier then chocolate.

make sure to always lead off a phone call with a "This is a private message for..." just in case you were checking voice mail with the speaker phone on... it can be really bad if your SO has a chocolate attack. :rolleyes:

[terremoto]

This is one point I think of that many times it was maybe just attraction and being built in the mind, but then it goes 'poff'.
I guess that's a good reason to help one accept that if something does work out or the feeling is not mutual. Maybe the feeling was all an illusion.

Yeah, maybe our desires for something influence how we perceive reality which in a way, can distort reality.