Where to start

[pygmalion]

As an experienced or semi-experienced ballroom dancer, where do you think a new student should start? Learning one dance? If so, which? Learning basics of a few dances? What do you think? Disclaimer: I don't necessarily agree with this article. Just figured I'd include it so people have something to talk about.
http://www.other_tidbits_of_information.htm

[tasche]

This link seems a little nonstandard.

[pygmalion]

Oops! That's because I left out half the link. Sorry. That's when I was in the midst of my router from the nether world nightmare! :evil:

Here's the link

http://www.friendsofdance.com/other_tidbits_of_information.htm

[Sagitta]

Glad that you had that disclaimer Jenn!!! I wouldn't know what to think otherwise. :shock:


I would suggest sticking to one particular style when starting out, and depending on your motivation/time/money choose one or more dances to learn. For the longer version, comments on the article by Jim, to read what I started out with, and just enjoy my normal ranting read below... :D

The article:
Jim talks about swing being the easiest dance to learn and I actually learnt swing first, but that's because of Ithaca being what it is!!! :) ECS is a lively dance, and the great deal of time spent in open position could make it easier for people to pick up, but ECS is just awful if one does not know leading/following and the 101 other things that give life to dancing a dance!!!

I suggest an even simpler dance for Jim, which came to mind as soon as I read the article: contra! I might be missing something, but after doing the contras that I have done I feel that it is a lively dance and just about patterns, and that should suit Jim just fine.

And, perhaps Jim's article would be pursuasive to some people who are intimidated by dance, and get them started, but saying dances are just steps is like saying that food is mere sustenance. We need the variety to get the various nutrients what our body needs. Both are true, but there is a lot more to both then steps for dance and sustenance for food.

What to start learning:
I always say start with something that is of interest to you. Is it a style such as street latin/country/swing/ballroom/folk, or is it a particular dance? Then the next question is how much time/money do you have to spend on it? Those sort of questions help a person figure out where to start...You need the motivation and know that you will be able to follow through when you feel its tough.

If you are interested in a particular style then taking a survey class would provide direction as to whether you have an inclination to a particular dance. I've seen ballroom, latin, and folk survey dance classes offered, but country is not popular where I am. Haven't seen swing survey classes, and am not quite sure how one would do that.

For a person just starting out in dance taking dramatically different dance styles can be really confusing. Learning more then one dance is easier if they are a similar style and also is cross-learning. For instance, cuban/latin/hip motion is common to all latin dances.

[tasche]

I personally think you should learn the basics of a couple of dances first then work one some in more detail.

How discouraging would it be to only focus on one dance at first if thats the one that you happen to have trouble with.

When I first started as a teen I remember chacha as being the first one to learn and for me its the funnest (sp?) as I'm relearning everything

[pygmalion]

Good point tasche. If I'd started with strictly ECS, I would not be dancing today. It took me more than a year to warm up to that dance. I hated it. :roll: :lol:

I started at a franchise studio, and I have to give them credit for what I think was a good approach. They started me in their "general variety" program, which meant three to five patterns at a strictly social level in about four dances -- enough to hold my own at a party, and enough for me to get a taste of dancing, before I started to work in-depth on anything. That approach worked well for me.

[tasche]

How different is it to have learnt social dancing first. I've never actually learnt from social dancing approach. How does that effect the learning process

[pygmalion]

tasche.

My answer to you will be long and complex, and I really need to think about how I say it. So I'll post later today, after I've had some sleep and some time to reflect. I have a lot to say about that issue, and don't want to shortchange you when it comes to an answer. But yes, I spent my first year of dancing doing social dance, and the past year and a half doing competitive dance training. The two approaches are like night and day, with pros and cons for each. Look for a long, long post from me later on. 8) :)

[pygmalion]

I spent most of the day thinking about this, and here's my conclusion. The difference between studying social and competitive dance is that social dance teachers accept mediocrity. You can certainly dance with precision or do advanced styling in social dance, but it is not required. In competitive training, excellence is always required.


This plays out in many ways, but it's also the bottom line. The goal of a social dance teacher is to make sure you have fun, regardless of whether you can dance. The goal of a competitive teacher is to make sure you dance well, regardless of whether you have fun. Totally opposite approaches.

[danceguy]

Interesting article! Thank you Pygmalion. :)

As I've mentioned before, I started out in dancing wanting to do Swing as I knew the music pretty well. I ended up taking Latin as I was trying to impress a lady, so that was my first exposure to dance. :shock:

The idea of doing any kind of dancing scared the hell out of me…it was just something that I had feared my entire life. So for myself, just getting to the class and sticking with it was the most important thing.

The change for me happened when I went to my first social dance…and got exposed to so many styles of dancing. The folks from my class who I thought just did Latin…were mainly Swing dancers and did every kind of dance I had heard of. I was very blown away, impressed and even a bit jealous that they knew so much. So, I decided I’d start taking a lot of different dance styles...I figured at least it would give me more floor time. And it did! Soon I found that I enjoyed doing many different styles…some more than others.

But what I learned in all of the classes helped me overall, for there are a lot of dance moves that are very similiar between the styles. All of the exposure to dance forced me to get over my fears - mainly having someone in my personal space, how to lead, etc. While I know I’m not a very good dancer…this approach was what I needed.

I feel people as individuals learn differently…and some may benefit from learning just one dance at a time, others may like the shotgun approach that I took. I’m at a point now where I’m focusing on becoming proficient in just a few styles...the ones that I enjoy the most.

I know I’d never want to enter a dance competition…its just not in my nature to do so. Regardless, I do want to become a great dancer…so who knows what the future may bring... :)

Best

SG

[Sagitta]

The difference between studying social and competitive dance is that social dance teachers accept mediocrity. In competitive training, excellence is always required.

The goal of a social dance teacher is to make sure you have fun, regardless of whether you can dance. The goal of a competitive teacher is to make sure you dance well, regardless of whether you have fun. Totally opposite approaches.

I am a social dancer. I have my doubts as to whether I ever will be/want to be a competitive dancer. The teachers that I have, with the exception of the cornell university ballroom classes and those of the club, spend a lot of time on making sure that people get the steps right. We really don't cover much in terms of move etc per class because of the amount of time spent on getting it right. It probably is not to the level of competitive dancing, but the standards are pretty high, for which I am grateful!! For instance, for the waltz basic step we learnt it as heel-toe, toe, toe-heel... :)

[SDsalsaguy]

I spent most of the day thinking about this, and here's my conclusion. The difference between studying social and competitive dance is that social dance teachers accept mediocrity. You can certainly dance with precision or do advanced styling in social dance, but it is not required. In competitive training, excellence is always required.


This plays out in many ways, but it's also the bottom line. The goal of a social dance teacher is to make sure you have fun, regardless of whether you can dance. The goal of a competitive teacher is to make sure you dance well, regardless of whether you have fun. Totally opposite approaches.
I had never thought about or conceptualized it in this way Jenn…so thanks for the food for thought!

I do wonder though, if there’s also a difference in what constitutes excellence in the respective arenas. It seems to me that social dance instruction can also have a focus on excellence but, in this case, the excellence is of a functional variety – are you excellent at your role in the communication between partners? This is a different type of excellence then the aesthetics based one of competitive dancing.

None of this is to suggest that social dancing is not also aesthetic or that competitive dancing doesn’t also involve elements of functionality but, rather, that the under girding focus is of a different nature.

In line with this general notion I am reminded of a conversation I had with an active world finalist who commented on the trade off between leading and dancing one’s own body. Now certainly a world finalist can do both far above the level that most can ever hope to achieve in either one of these items – but the point remains that, even at this level, there are trade offs between the two.

I’m still pondering this whole thing, but these are my thoughts of the moment…

[pygmalion]

I guess I should have defined what I meant by excellence versus mediocrity -- my own values are showing here, since I strongly prefer competitive dance training to social dance.

Having experienced both approaches to ballroom dance training, here's what I've seen. Competitive training requires technical precision, stage presence, relationship to/awareness of the audience, contrast of movement, control, consistency, and athleticism.

One can certainly bring all of these things to the social dance arena, but they are not required. In the competitive arena, all of these things are required, and more.

[tasche]

So waht your so of saying is so far as quality expected/technique required that social dancing is a sbuset of competitive technique.

[pygmalion]

I actually hadn't thought of it that way, but that's a reasonable conclusion to draw, yes.

[pygmalion]

So then is there a preferred dance or groupm of dances to start with? My first lesson was "foxtrot" i.e. walking forward and back, followed by some merengue, to give me a "dancing" feeling pretty easily. And then my first twenty or so lessons (the general variety package) included waltz, foxtrot, rumba, and triple ECS. Box steps, obviously, hesitations, forward and back progressive walks, open breaks, underarm turns -- walkaround and seven step .... Oh yeah, and for swing, the basic, a couple turns, and a sugar push.

Is there a right or wrong place to start?