Smile!! Please!! :o)

[Claire_Brummell]

Hey Everyone,

Apologies for my long absence from the forums - I know it's been a while, but things have been crazy recently. Just felt compelled to post something after my salsa experiences this week.

Was at salsa on Monday, and again Wednesday after Tango and I realised something.

How many people in there looked SO miserable. They weren't smiling, they didn't appear to be having a good time, they were just 'doing'. Now I know many people will say "maybe they're beginners, and they were concentrating etc" but no, these are experienced dancers who dance on a regular basis and to a reasonably high level. Are people getting so obsessed with being good that they've forgotten about the love of the dance? There are some people in there who can't dance anywhere near to the same level, but are SOOOOO much more pleasurable to dance with because they look at you when you're dancing, they smile, they're having a good time, they're feeling the music, the passion of the dance, they're enjoying themselves, and they care that you're enjoying yourself too. I know beginners who I love dancing with simply because I can have a laugh with them, and they're trying their best but ultimately they are just enjoying it!

Salsa is supposed to be fun people!! :)

I've noticed that some people have lost that - and it's so sad. You could be the best dancer in the world but unless you dance with your heart, and you appear to be enjoying yourself, basically if I can ENJOY the experience of dancing with you - I'm not really interested - I LOVE salsa, and I want to dance with people who love it too.

This may seem harsh but it really hit me quite hard the other night. I was dancing with a load of cuban guys who just loved everything about it - they were dancing, singing, laughing whether they were on their own, with a dance partner or just with their mates. They got it. And my night was more enjoyable just from being around them. I looked over and there were a couple who'd pretty much been just dancing with each other all night and both of them were stoney faced, no smile, no emotion, no nothing. They didn't look at each other (they didn't seem at all interested in the other person), they didn't appear to be feeling the music, more just stepping on beat and there appeared to be no enjoyment whatsoever. It made me feel so sad, and if the guy had asked me to dance I would have thought twice. I'd never turn someone down without dancing with them so I would have accepted but if he'd danced with me in the same way, regardless of how good a dancer he was I wouldn't have enjoyed it. It looked cold and it actually made me uncomfortable to watch it. But maybe that's just me!! :)

Another thing that I noticed (which again may have just been me) but I was dancing with this guy who was feeling the music totally, loving it, breathing it, dancing like there was no tomorrow, singing along and knew every beat of the song. Which normally would be great. However....he had absolutely no interest in his partner at all - he was in his own little world (which appeared to be a lot of fun!) but he'd lost the idea of the connection between him and his partner when dancing. Don't get me wrong - feeling the music is of utmost importance - however you still need an awareness of your partner, as you're dancing as a couple. He had his eyes closed for virtually the whole song and only looked at me if I hadn't understood his lead to give me a 'you shouldn't have done that' look, then disappear back into his own little world.

I really hope that these things are the exceptions not the rules - and that people haven't forgotten the things that make salsa great.

The fun.
The passion.
The music.
The connection with your partner.
The pure love of the dance...

What do you guys think? :)

(Sorry for rambling on - damn, it's good to be back!! ;) )

[Danish Guy]

Salsa is supposed to be fun people!! :)

/signed


Wellcome back

[Claire_Brummell]

Thanks for the welcome - it's good to be back :D

[Twilight_Elena]

Welcome back!
Sometimes, you get so lost in technique that you miss the point. Sadly, it happens to many people.

T_E

[Claire_Brummell]

Thanks for the welcome back hon! It's good to be posting again! :)

[HothouseSalsero]

I think this was pretty well covered on this older thread:

http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=2065&highlight=smile

I don't think anyone has to prove to you that they are having fun. There are different personalities, different personal styles, and you might not be picking up on what's going on inside the person.

[Claire_Brummell]

I'm not for a second saying that someone has to prove anything, however you can always get a feeling for how someone is feeling - happy, sad etc.

I'm not saying someone has to be beaming the entire time, or that they need to pretend to be something they're not, however if someone is boardering on grimacing at you, or looking everywhere in the room but at you with a very bored / annoyed / disinterested look on their face then I personally wouldn't find that enjoyable.

Everyone has bad days, and I understand that - but this is not a one time thing, I see these people out on a regular basis and they always look the same. If someone looked upset then I'd be the first to ask if they were ok, but it's not seemingly an 'off night' thing it's their general state of being on the dancefloor and I just think it's incredibly sad that people regularly appear to find no joy at all in dancing salsa.

[HothouseSalsero]

I'm not there to see what you're seeing, but I still think you might be misreading how they are actually feeling.

[Claire_Brummell]

More than possible, however if and when I've danced with people who are like this it's spoilt the experience for me as salsa is about two people dancing together and the connection that they share....

[Big10]

I'm not for a second saying that someone has to prove anything, however you can always get a feeling for how someone is feeling - happy, sad etc.

I'm not saying someone has to be beaming the entire time, or that they need to pretend to be something they're not, however if someone is boardering on grimacing at you, or looking everywhere in the room but at you with a very bored / annoyed / disinterested look on their face then I personally wouldn't find that enjoyable.
I agree with all of that. A large part of my personal joy when dancing Salsa comes from reacting to my partner, and hopefully getting some occasional indication (e.g., a smile) that our dance is going well. I recognize that some people might be happy inside without smiling, but, just like Claire suggests, those people are often a "downer" for me.

This very same idea crossed my mind last Thursday night, after dancing with a woman who had a stoic facial expression throughout our entire dance. I don't see her or dance with her very often, but I had danced with her on at least 3 different occasions in the past year, and I remembered that she would smile a little. But not on Thursday night. To confirm that it wasn't just me, I watched her dancing with a couple of other guys that night, and her face was the same way. It was unfortunate, because her technical skill level had improved, but somewhere along the way she apparently decided (or was told) that it would be "cooler" to lock her face up. :(

Maybe I'm wrong, but my view is that a smile is a natural human response to fun/joy -- and people have to be affirmatively trying not to smile if they are honestly enjoying themselves for 3-5 minutes and their facial expression never changes the whole time. I think that's especially true if we're talking about dancers who are intermediate level and above, since they wouldn't need to concentrate as much on the actual moves. (I suppose I'd also use a different standard for dancing to slow, romantic songs....although a nice smile during one of those is great, too! :raisebro: )

If I dance socially with somebody a couple of times and she never smiles at all, then I assume she just doesn't like dancing with me and it would be very unlikely for me ever to ask her to dance again. I'd rather not just be somebody's "pity dance" or "exercise" for the evening -- when I have a choice then I try to dance with people who appear to enjoy dancing with me. Otherwise, I might as well just stay at home and save paying the cover charge, instead of dancing with somebody whose face is just like looking at my blank walls anyway....:p

[Claire_Brummell]

My point exactly - thanks for this :)

I guess that's a part of it, if someone appears to be miserable then a part of me may take it as an indication that they don't enjoy dancing with me, or that I'm doing something wrong, and if they don't enjoy dancing with me, I'd rather leave them to dance with people they do enjoy dancing with, so I can do the same :D

[Sabor]

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/spezial/Fool/smile.gif

[Claire_Brummell]

:lol:

[africana]

i haven't read the thread yet, but I just wanted to say that wit all this talk about the proper way to make eye contact, do shines, smile, etc that I'm afraid some people take that to the extreme of being fake!
I saw a bit of that this weekend, and let me tell it's not pretty even if the smiling/eye-contacting person is pretty LOL
Be as authentic as possible, while seeking to connect through body language in a way that is natural to you. I hate fake smiles or forced eye contact

[africana]

It was unfortunate, because her technical skill level had improved, but somewhere along the way she apparently decided (or was told) that it would be "cooler" to lock her face up. :(

Maybe I'm wrong, but my view is that a smile is a natural human response to fun/joy -- and people have to be affirmatively trying not to smile if they are honestly enjoying themselves for 3-5 minutes and their facial expression never changes the whole time. I think that's especially true if we're talking about dancers who are intermediate level and above, since they wouldn't need to concentrate as much on the actual moves. (I suppose I'd also use a different standard for dancing to slow, romantic songs....although a nice smile during one of those is great, too! :raisebro: ) you guys are right that trend is there, to look cool, but neither extreme looks good, and they have one thing in common: forcing facial expressions -> not cool

[Lofland]

I know I take my leading too seriously, I'm working on it. But it's hard to smile when my mind is racing trying to figure out which pattern to do next that I haven't already done and that is at the appropriate level for my partner. With my regular partners it sort of comes naturally, but not with new women. I can fake a smile but that's not enough for some women either. I've been dancing a lot, taken hundreds of privates, and I'm on a salsa team, and I still have to think about it. And please don't look at me in a patronizing way, take a deep breathe, and say, "You just have to feeeeeeel the music," followed by "do whatever move feels right at the time." I've heard it a million times.

Maybe the non-smiling couple were having a great time and went home and got it on, we have no idea what was going on in their heads. Let's let them enjoy the dance their way.

When you listen to a favorite piece of music, are you smiling ALL the time? Me neither.

I do love it when my partner smiles and looks like she's enjoying it. I'm trying to do that, but I'm not there every time at every dance.

[Big10]

I've been dancing a lot, taken hundreds of privates, and I'm on a salsa team, and I still have to think about it. And please don't look at me in a patronizing way, take a deep breathe, and say, "You just have to feeeeeeel the music," followed by "do whatever move feels right at the time." I've heard it a million times.
Even though I'm a leader who likes to smile, I'll add that "thinking" is normal. (Yes, I know how stupid that sounds :lol: -- but hopefully you catch my drift!) However, especially given as much training as you've had (at least 2 years or more, right?), I hope you're not "thinking" of every single step during an entire song, or even 80% of them. If you're still doing that much thinking, then my guess is that part of the problem is with your instructors. Or, perhaps you're trying to include too many moves/patterns, and you should allow yourself to relax with more basics during a song, instead of feeling compelled to pile move on top of move, on top of move. Obviously, I've never seen you dance, so I'm just taking a guess about all of that based on what you wrote here and what I vaguely remember from other threads.

Maybe the non-smiling couple were having a great time and went home and got it on, we have no idea what was going on in their heads. Let's let them enjoy the dance their way.
I think you are going in a different direction than what Claire and I were discussing. If two stone-faced people feel good inside and love dancing with each other, then more power to them!!! I was just talking about my personal dancing preference (which sounds similar to Claire's), which is that I really like a partner who is comfortable enough to smile when I'm dancing with her. That makes me feel more comfortable, too. And, on the flipside, a partner who doesn't smile at all can often be a huge killjoy when I'm dancing.

When you listen to a favorite piece of music, are you smiling ALL the time? Me neither.

I do love it when my partner smiles and looks like she's enjoying it. I'm trying to do that, but I'm not there every time at every dance.
Me neither. I'd honestly be a bit creeped out if my partner looked in my eyes and was smiling for every second of our dance! :lol: However the extreme of not smiling at all :-| is much more common than that, and those are the partners whom I personally try to avoid.

[Claire_Brummell]

Me neither. I'd honestly be a bit creeped out if my partner looked in my eyes and was smiling for every second of our dance! :lol: However the extreme of not smiling at all :-| is much more common than that, and those are the partners whom I personally try to avoid.

This is exactly my point - people seem to be misinterpreting what I'm saying and think I want someone to smile ALL the time - which is both a bit creepy and completely unfeasible to do. I'm not asking for smiles all the time, or even for half the song, but something, anything at some point I don't think is too much to ask, and most importantly if I smile at you, it's nice if you smile back...

[Sabor]

and most importantly if I smile at you, it's nice if you smile back...

hey.. nada problema.. i'll even throw in a laugh..
any more and u have to pay some $$$ .. lol

[Claire_Brummell]

No problem - that's all I ask!! But just in case I'll bring my pocket money with me :)

[Lofland]

how about a passionate scowl?

[Lofland]

I'm getting off topic here, but to answer your question, Big10, I think and get a look of concentration or thinking on my face when I'm trying to figure out what pattern to do next. I also am thinking when I'm trying to figure out where the song is going to have a break so I should stop dancing. I don't think when I'm doing the basic, I can carry on a conversation while I do that.

[Big10]

I'm getting off topic here, but to answer your question, Big10, I think and get a look of concentration or thinking on my face when I'm trying to figure out what pattern to do next. I also am thinking when I'm trying to figure out where the song is going to have a break so I should stop dancing.
Okay, all of that sounds normal to me. However, if you're thinking of patterns all the way through the song, then that might be part of the problem. Just be sure to give yourself a break between patterns every once in awhile, and do basics for a couple of 8-counts before thinking about going into patterns again. It has been my experience that many followers actually appreciate a break every once in awhile during a song, and that will give yourself a chance to relax, too.

I don't think when I'm doing the basic, I can carry on a conversation while I do that.
Cool.....and if you can talk, then you can smile, right? :cool:

Just say something that you think is funny. (Nothing crude and not a whole Jay Leno monologue, but anything quick and lighthearted.) Even if your partner thinks it's corny, then she might at least laugh at the fact of how corny it is. ;) The point is to make the dancing experience feel more relaxed between the two of you, and not like there's some pressure to execute every move perfectly.

[Claire_Brummell]

The point is to make the dancing experience feel more relaxed between the two of you, and not like there's some pressure to execute every move perfectly.

I think this is exactly the point - the more relaxed the dance, the easier and more enjoyable it will be - sometimes conversation can be a bit much for a lead who's trying to select from 1001 moves in his head while trying to keep time and not step on his partner (being a lead myself, I know how this goes!) but it doesn't take much thought or effort to return a smile to your partner if she smiles at you and this will help relax both of you a little bit more...

[salsa es mi vida]

I know the reason why they don't smile,they suffer,they are in pain,in agony....They don't want to encourage the leader to be elaborate(if you can say that)with his moves.That spoils my dance every time,i am not trying to lead nor to tell the leader what he should be doing.But at times it can be like they are else where(they don't listen to the music).The word rhythm is something they know very little of...

[wonderwoman]

Although I lack the attention span to read the lengthy rant in the original post, I got the gist of it and can totally appreciate what it's saying!

I notice better feedback from my dance partners when I smile. They smile back and they are more likely accept future dances than if I don't smile. Some people dance to have fun and you can see in their faces they're genuinely having a good time. Others have made it a serious discipline and though they have a passion for it, they push themselves to excel and maybe do it even at times when they're not happy. I have a very good friend who has dealt with a lot and he is always out dancing, especially if he is going through a really rough time, and though he may not smiling he is enjoying the dance for the release that it provides. I can often tell what kind of day my favorite salsa leads are having, but I know them.. it can be hard to read someone you aren't familiar with if they aren't smiling, so your best bet is to smile at a new partner if you hope to dance with him or her again :)

[itsthisgirl]

i also noticed the last few times at the studio that people are so 'stoney faced'. And here i am with my instructor cutting up and having a good time. Its sad when he is used to not joking around and cutting up and enjoying himself to the point that when he comes to me i literally stop him sometimes and look at him and say "its me, remember...have fun...or i'll change instructors"...the change instructors part is a joke, i'm cool with him but it usually makes him laugh. I mean its not all fun and games and i often stop and ask for clarification, but we do have a sense of humor and enjoy ourselves and the dance. To have a good time dancing i do feel there as to be a friendship connection in a sense (no matter how brief it is, even just a dance). When i see everyone moving around the floor looking so miserable i cant help but think "did you waste all that money to do something you dont like? go spend the money on a nice meal, or go to a bar, or save it and take a vacation that way you can enjoy it". One lady literally needs pep talks every time she takes a lesson. it takes everything in me not to walk up to her and say "if you are that needy you dont like this and should maybe move on to something else". But thats not my place. I just get annoyed watching her need a pep talk all the time, i'm sure her instructor feels 100% more miserable about it than i do. Where do instructors find the patience? lol But going back on topic, i do have fun during my lesson, and i've noticed that the owner and her partner actually stop sometimes and watch us and have commented (i was listening in on their convo while dancing) and they said we look like we are really enjoying ourselves...how sad that just because someone has a laugh or two we stand out. SMILE PEOPLE!!!! lol

[wonderwoman]

I know a lot of ballroom dancers don't actually do it for relaxation and fun, but for the challenges and the enjoyment of setting, working toward, and accomplishing goals. It's a self-esteem booster in that way. Push through when it is difficult/not coming easily and you can enjoy the rewarding moments along the journey. So social dancing is less of a leisure activity, but more of a time to practice/work on things. To each their own.

But I know your instructor looks forward to your lessons, they remind him that his JOB is still fun :)