Ethics and Switching Partners

[madmaximus]

Do you think it is ethical to have a try-out with somebody who's better (than your current partner) while still you are still officially "in-partnership"?
WITHOUT telling your partner?

A common situation I've seen too often among COMPETITIVE dancers.



Your thoughts?



m

[fascination]

hmmm...I don't think I would "officially" conduct a try-out without at least having had conversations with the current partner about misgivings and wondering about the future of the partnership ...but I might put myself in a position to dance with that other person and then inquire as to their level of interest in pursuing the possibility....but that's just my gut reaction and logic tells me that there isn't one pat answer for this...it can depend upon the level of notoriety that one has...i.e. Is it even possible for that person to move around in the dance world discreetly? etc....and/or has the current partner been doing things that so obviously undermine the partnership and indicate a lack of committment that looking elsewhere would merely be a reciprocal sort of response?(not to rationalize)...I dunno...I would tend to be willing to shoot myself in the foot by telling the current partner that I wanted to look around and why, instead of having to live with potentially hurting or angering them later b/c they felt I hadn't been honest....I hope folks who have had to do this chime in...I hope I actually have this problem some day

[ssjss]

I would let them know for the simple reason I would think of them as a friend. Anyone that I would spend that much time with and interest deserves the respect of honesty.

[fascination]

I would let them know for the simple reason I would think of them as a friend. Anyone that I would spend that much time with and interest deserves the respect of honesty.I love your answer but I see lots of partnerships in which the two are not friends

[ssjss]

Yeah but for me, I'm alittle too headstrong to be around someone that I can't get along with. I start to throw matches at there powder kage so to speak.

[madmaximus]

I've known dancers (both men and women) whose competitiveness gets the better of them so much that they are looking for the next partner the moment they hook up with one.

The rationale being: why would I want to stay with X if I can do better with Y?

All in the name of winning...

m

[ssjss]

If you're in it to win and so is your partner, than it should be understood that you might leave for a better oppertunity. If the get upset about it if your honest, than they're being a bad sport. But if you twist the truth and make false promises, yeah I can understand them gett'in upset. It's like any relationship IMO, be honest and enjoy the time, but remember that tomorrow is never promised.

[fascination]

I've known dancers (both men and women) whose competitiveness gets the better of them so much that they are looking for the next partner the moment they hook up with one.

The rationale being: why would I want to stay with X if I can do better with Y?

All in the name of winning...

mI don't know how that works in the world of dancing...I would love to hear thoughts on that...I am very competititve, but not that competitive...If I found an Am partner that I loved dancing with and we were able to do well...I think I would resist the urge to spend to much time wondering if it would be better with someone else...sort of like in a marriage, I would think it wouldn't serve the interest of the current union...but ya know I am not doing it for a living and I guess if I were a pro I might look at it very differently...in fact I could see myself looking at it differently particularly if the current dynamic wasn't meshing

[thespina13]

Wow. this all reminds me of Strictly Ballroom. Tina Sparkle. Hilarious. Well I know it's not hilarious, but the movie makes me giggle.

[Shooshoo]

If you're in it to win and so is your partner, than it should be understood that you might leave for a better oppertunity. If the get upset about it if your honest, than they're being a bad sport. But if you twist the truth and make false promises, yeah I can understand them gett'in upset. It's like any relationship IMO, be honest and enjoy the time, but remember that tomorrow is never promised.

I agree with you.

I guess it's more difficult in dance cause you have one single partner. I remember this kind of situation while playing in a basketball team. We used to be a very close team and then one of the close players made a deal to go to another team without telling us. She told us after it was done. Ethical or not, it broke our heart and we are hardly friends any longer. If she had told us from the beginning, I think then even if we felt bad, we had no right to blame her.

[Standard Dancer]

I've known dancers (both men and women) whose competitiveness gets the better of them so much that they are looking for the next partner the moment they hook up with one.

The rationale being: why would I want to stay with X if I can do better with Y?

All in the name of winning...

m

It seems to me that if you know your partner is the kind of person who would try out with someone else behind your back (say, for instance, this is how you got together in the first place), then it would be hard to put all your trust in that person, because if they found someone better, they'd leave in a second. In the meantime, you're both supposed to be putting in your best effort, contributing time, money, etc. into the partnership. As always, depends on the situation - but I could see how having a reputation for always dropping one partner for a better one could backfire and undermine the current partnership as well ...

i think an important question is: how much does trust matter to the two people involved?

[Joe]

I've known dancers (both men and women) whose competitiveness gets the better of them so much that they are looking for the next partner the moment they hook up with one.

The rationale being: why would I want to stay with X if I can do better with Y?

All in the name of winning...

m
Very timely question...

If you find out that a friend's partner is trying out with potential partners behind his/her back, do you tell him/her?

My coach has a rule of partner searching:

Everyone always want a partner better than himself or herself.

The corollary is that everyone is always looking for a better partner (of course, some people are stuck with who they have, e.g. if they're married).

Now, is it ethical to have tryouts without telling your partner? That depends on your own personal sense of ethics, of course. As mentioned previously, some people are so competitive that they don't give a damn. On the other hand, some people are too sensitive for their own good.

If out of the blue a national champion dancer lost her partner and decided she wanted to dance with me ("Pam Short's broken both her legs and I wanna dance with you." ;) ), and I her, I would hope that my partner would understand and be happy for me to have the opportunity.

[Twilight_Elena]

I think a simple, unofficial tryout is harmless enough. I don't think it's necessary to tell your current partner, unless your tryout will be viewed by other people as well, in which case it will eventually reach your partner's ears.
On the other hand, if you're eager to tryout with other people, you're probably not happy and satisfied in your partnership. So tryouts or no tryouts, a talk with your partner is in order so as to see if you're still able to wrok together.

T_E

[DrDoug]

I think it just depends on whether you are more comfortable telling your partner or keeping it to yourself. Non-spouse dance partnerships have a lot in common with dating, as far as I can tell, and provided you don't lie to any of the parties involved by misleading them into thinking that your relationship is exclusive, there is nothing unethical about dating more than one person at a time or starting to date one person before breaking up with another.

Some people might mistake dance partnerships for exclusive relationships just because neither partner has time to dance with someone else.

[nikita]

When one partner develops and becomes significantly better then the other, this will be quite of a recource of frustration for the better one. If the partner can't follow, they should split.
But it's a question of mutual respect to talk about "try-out's" before. It's at least a chance for the one, who got "stucked", to improve.

[madmaximus]

True story (one I've seen repeated many times).

Former national champion loses partner.
Ex-champ looks around--finds really good potential lady.
Ex-champ asks lady (currently partnered to another) for a try-out.
Try-out was good, both are excited by prospect of competing together.
The hitch? Distance was the deal-breaker--so try-out was futile after all.
Lady (who is better than her current partner) confesses try-out to current partner (who's also become her best friend, by the way).
Partnership unravels in 2 weeks.

Bitterness ensues.

A friendship is wrecked, and they don't talk to each other anymore.


Questions:

1. Was it ethical for the ex-champ to ask the partnered lady?

2. How do you think should the lady have approached this?

3. How do you think should the man (in the partnership) approached the situation?



m

[fascination]

True story (one I've seen repeated many times).

Former national champion loses partner.
Ex-champ looks around--finds really good potential lady.
Ex-champ asks lady (currently partnered to another) for a try-out.ball was in lady's corner here and she elected the try-out...this is not the responsibility of the FNC(former nat'l champ, for laziness puposes)
Try-out was good, both are excited by prospect of competing together.
The hitch? Distance was the deal-breaker--so try-out was futile after all.
Lady (who is better than her current partner) confesses try-out to current partner (who's also become her best friend, by the way). if distance was a factor, why the try out at all? and why would the lady then mention it to her current partner? I am presuming she did so b/c they were friends, which I still don't think is particularly wise given that it wasn't even a deal that was going to happen.

Partnership unravels in 2 weeks.
Bitterness ensues. obviously more to this story than meets the eye...if there was a friendship I would assume that after some initial hurt...something could be salvaged, unless it was a very conditional friendship....I am still inclined to think that the lady, if she was going to have the try out be secret AND it didn't work out, wasn't particularly wise to then mention it...if the friendship was deep to begin with she could have been candid at the outset...if she couldn't be candid at the outset what would make her think it would be better recieved after the fact?

Because of the action of the National Champion, a friendship is wrecked. I wouldn't place the responsibility there from what has been shared thusfar


Questions:
1. Was it ethical for the ex-champ to ask the partnered lady? why not? no one ever knows what the status of something is unless they ask

2. How do you think should the lady have approached this? see above

3. How do you think should the man (in the partnership) approached the situation? well, you havent said alot about how he DID handle it...whether or not he was rational or understanding or fair...certainly initial hurt is to be expected, but there isn't enough info (though I can appreciate why) to really evaluate his behavior



m[/quote]

[madmaximus]

Fascination,
You're too fast for me. :)

I edited a few things in the original post.

Removed the phrase: "Because of the action of the National Champion, a friendship is wrecked."
I realized I was making a judgement there.


m

[fascination]

Fascination,
You're too fast for me. :)

I edited a few things in the original post.

Removed the phrase: "Because of the action of the National Champion, a friendship is wrecked."
I realized I was making a judgement there.


mwell, I adore your posts...I hope something I said was beneficial...feel free to pm or not...anyhow, the whole thing sounds very sad...and unfun...but I trust your wisdom in whatever regard that your question intersects with your life...and am sure you will muddle through it in good faith, otherwise you wouldn't be asking

[madmaximus]

ball was in lady's corner here and she elected the try-out...this is not the responsibility of the FNC(former nat'l champ, for laziness puposes)

But was it ethical of the FNC (or anybody looking for a partner) to even ASK someone he knew was a partnered dancer?


if distance was a factor, why the try out at all? and why would the lady then mention it to her current partner? I am presuming she did so b/c they were friends, which I still don't think is particularly wise given that it wasn't even a deal that was going to happen.

From what was related to me (this being one of many I've heard), they thought it would work.
But after driving once for the try-out, she decided it did not seem feasible because of the amount of time they would spend on the road for lessons and practice.


obviously more to this story than meets the eye...if there was a friendship I would assume that after some initial hurt...something could be salvaged, unless it was a very conditional friendship....I am still inclined to think that the lady, if she was going to have the try out be secret AND it didn't work out, wasn't particularly wise to then mention it...if the friendship was deep to begin with she could have been candid at the outset...if she couldn't be candid at the outset what would make her think it would be better recieved after the fact?
Judging from the lady's personality, competitiveness and wanting to win got the better of her.
Apparently, they had agreed to push the partnership together and invest in it for the long-term.


I wouldn't place the responsibility there from what has been shared thusfar

why not? no one ever knows what the status of something is unless they ask
see above
well, you havent said alot about how he DID handle it...whether or not he was rational or understanding or fair...certainly initial hurt is to be expected, but there isn't enough info (though I can appreciate why) to really evaluate his behavior...


From what I understand, he still wanted to dance with her, but he felt understandably betrayed.
I know he truly tried to like her again, but the ill-will developed by the fiasco was enough to taint their practice and time together, and more than what he could handle.
They did try to salvage things, but from what I understand, the lady never apologized for her actions.


m

[madmaximus]

well, I adore your posts...I hope something I said was beneficial...feel free to pm or not...anyhow, the whole thing sounds very sad...and unfun...but I trust your wisdom in whatever regard that your question intersects with your life...and am sure you will muddle through it in good faith, otherwise you wouldn't be asking

Thank you fascination.
I really wanted to hear other people's perspectives--as he had asked for mine.

This was truly a story of someone close to me.
He really liked and respected the lady (as a close friend)
The truly sad part?
He no longer dances because of this.

Also, I was in a similar situation as the ex-champ.
I knew someone who was partnered.
Difference was,
I decided it wasn't right for me to ask.

m

[fascination]

But was it ethical of the FNC (or anybody looking for a partner) to even ASK someone he knew was a partnered dancer?I don't know...I guess it depends upon what he knew...If he knew that thepartnersip was all rosy and lovely and the lady had no reason to even be looking, then he was horning in IMO...if he knew there was a problem and she said she would be interested in looking around, who could blame him?..if he knew nothing at all, it still wasnt a huge crime to ask IMO...onus is on the person in the partnership...just like in a marriage...she could have refused


From what was related to me (this being one of many I've heard), they thought it would work.
But after driving once for the try-out, she decided it did not seem feasible because of the amount of time they would spend on the road for lessons and practice.
then i am still verklempt as to why she would then feel it neccessary to mention it to the current partner

Judging from the lady's personality, competitiveness and wanting to win got the better of her. then I imagine this shouldn't have been such a shock to her current partner as well...


Apparently, they had agreed to push the partnership together and invest in it for the long-term. which? the current
partnership or the prospective one?



From what I understand, he still wanted to dance with her, but he felt understandably betrayed.
I know he truly tried to like her again, but the ill-will developed by the fiasco was enough to taint their practice and time together, and more than what he could handle.
They did try to salvage things, but from what I understand, the lady never apologized for her actions. was he verbal about his hurt or did it look like anger and frustration?..folks don't often apologize to anger or silence or frustration...they have to know that they hurt someone...and they can't do that if the person who was hurt doesn't make themselves vulnerable enough to show it...still, that is hard to do when hurting...if they were very candid and she just wasn't apologetic...that is when a decent guy, well, realizes that he may do better elsewhere...dunno...hard to talk in the abstract


m[/quote]

[fascination]

Thank you fascination.
I really wanted to hear other people's perspectives--as he had asked for mine.

This was truly a story of someone close to me.
He really liked and respected the lady (as a close friend)
The truly sad part?
He no longer dances because of this.

Also, I was in a similar situation as the ex-champ.
I knew someone who was partnered.
Difference was,
I decided it wasn't right for me to ask.

msomehow I knew you wouldnt and neither would I (but I'd probably send little spies to get feelers)....and yes, it really is sad...no one who dances with someone else for so many hours a week is untouched by the end of those relationships

[Joe]

You can't ask your partner not to take a potential opportunity that could be good for him/her (e.g. the chance to dance with someone much better than you). If you do that, you're only hindering his/her development.

As far as your example, why should the FNC have restricted himself to trying out with only those potential partners who were partnerless at the time?

[saludas]

I agree withe Joe...No to be TOO cynical here, but I believe the 'try out' was a calculated attempt to unravel the other partnership. Reason - current champ still has winning partnership, competition is now not on the scene.

Don't discount intrigue and deceit in the politics of dance...

[fascination]

it explicitly says that the FNC(on p2, I believe) had already lost his partner

[madmaximus]

You can't ask your partner not to take a potential opportunity that could be good for him/her (e.g. the chance to dance with someone much better than you). If you do that, you're only hindering his/her development.


Agreed.
But wouldn't the issue here be the MANNER in which the lady took the opportunity?
I know my friend (the "gent") respected his partner well enough to let her go on with somebody else had the opportunity come up, and handled well.


As far as your example, why should the FNC have restricted himself to trying out with only those potential partners who were partnerless at the time?

Indeed why...
[To take a counter-point then]

A partnership is a contract--however informal--to achieve a certain goal together.
Both parties are expected to invest themselves into that effort.
Some have the tacit understanding that the partnership is short-term, and others long-term.
Nevertheless, I would hazard to say few start one with the immediate intention of finding a replacement upon the commencement of the partnership.

Now, if I were an FNC, I would know (probably better than most people) the physical, financial, and personal cost invested by each party in a partnership.
Why would I (as the FNC) have so little consideration for the "gent's" (or others') efforts and feelings in this case?
Does my being BETTER than the "gent" give me this right to disrupt a partnership in such a cavalier manner?
As LADY, does being BETTER than the "gent" (and the opportunity to dance with someone better) give me the right to abandon a contract, which (in the case of my friend) was implicitly a long-term one?
Has my lust (as FNC) for winning so overpowering that I could visit bitterness between two people simply because I need a partner?

Or has the standards of behaviour and consideration for others been somehow suspended in this situation?




m

[saludas]

it explicitly says that the FNC(on p2, I believe) had already lost his partner

Sorry, Iassumed when I was writing this that we were talking about (apparently) ANOTHER couple,,, that had NOT lost his partner as yet

[redhead]

Just an opinion - I look at a parthership as taking a job. If you think you are overqualified and plan on looking for a better job immediately, don't take it unless that's the arrangement. If you know you're overqualified and decide to take it anyway, do your best and put a 100% in. It's a decent thing to do, to stay a while.
I know someone will say that people quit all the time... but that wasn't my point.

[fascination]

Does my being BETTER than the "gent" give me this right to disrupt a partnership in such a cavalier manner?no
As LADY, does being BETTER than the "gent" (and the opportunity to dance with someone better) give me the right to abandon a contract, which (in the case of my friend) was implicitly a long-term one?no

Has my lust (as FNC) for winning so overpowering that I could visit bitterness between two people simply because I need a partner?no

Or has the standards of behaviour and consideration for others been somehow suspended in this situation?no

[wooh]

There's a saying when it comes to cheating on your spouse, if you aren't sure if it's considered cheating, ask your spouse.
If you don't think what you're doing (in terms of looking for other partners) is at all unethical, then why not tell your current partner?

[wooh]

Questions:

1. Was it ethical for the ex-champ to ask the partnered lady?

2. How do you think should the lady have approached this?

3. How do you think should the man (in the partnership) approached the situation?
1. Lady is the one with a responsibility to the partnership, not FNC.
2. That's a tough one, she has to look at what she wants. But she really should be on the up and up about it. These kind of things almost always come out. Best to be honest from the get go.
3. Friends want what's best for their friends, even if it's sometimes to their own detriment. I imagine I'd be hurt, probably mad at first. But I hope that I'd be able to wish her luck with whatever she chose to do. Even on a selfish note, if she goes on to do well, it makes him look good. He's the former partner of superwoman! Of course, realistically, when you let real world emotions get entangled in perfect world ethics, I'd probably just be pissed off and say good riddance.

[Joe]

Just an opinion - I look at a parthership as taking a job.
Most jobs are at-will employment. That is, both parties (employer, employee) can terminate the relationship at any time. It is customary for the employee to give 2 weeks notice.

If a partnership is like taking a job, there really isn't anything wrong with the FNC's actions, or the prospective partner's actions. Would you quit a decent job without having another (better) job lined up already? If you're an employer looking to fill a position, wouldn't you try to hire the best person you could, even if they were already employed?

[Joe]

Why would I (as the FNC) have so little consideration for the "gent's" (or others') efforts and feelings in this case?
Does my being BETTER than the "gent" give me this right to disrupt a partnership in such a cavalier manner?
As LADY, does being BETTER than the "gent" (and the opportunity to dance with someone better) give me the right to abandon a contract, which (in the case of my friend) was implicitly a long-term one?
Has my lust (as FNC) for winning so overpowering that I could visit bitterness between two people simply because I need a partner?

Or has the standards of behaviour and consideration for others been somehow suspended in this situation?
I dunno...sometimes you gotta look out for Number 1.

Your scenario sounds a little odd, in that the girl broke up with her old partner yet did not ultimately end up dancing with the FNC.

Your friend should have been around the block long enough to know that all partnerships last only as long as both partners want to dance with each other. Once one of them no longer wants to dance with the other, it's over, just a matter of time for the partnership to end. It happens often when one partner is much better than the other. That case is usually a situation of that person just biding their time with a partner until someone better comes along, unless the "lesser" partner manages to work hard enough to sufficiently raise his/her level.

As far as bitterness, that is the result of the two peoples' personalities. It doesn't have to end that way, but if that's the way they work it out between themselves, that's what they get.

[fascination]

1. Lady is the one with a responsibility to the partnership, not FNC.
2. That's a tough one, she has to look at what she wants. But she really should be on the up and up about it. These kind of things almost always come out. Best to be honest from the get go.
3. Friends want what's best for their friends, even if it's sometimes to their own detriment. I imagine I'd be hurt, probably mad at first. But I hope that I'd be able to wish her luck with whatever she chose to do. Even on a selfish note, if she goes on to do well, it makes him look good. He's the former partner of superwoman! Of course, realistically, when you let real world emotions get entangled in perfect world ethics, I'd probably just be pissed off and say good riddance.yep...I'd say you and I are probably on the same page on this one all around

[madmaximus]

To get some clarity, I talked to my friend and his ex-partner separately yesterday.

The lady's perspective.
-- She thought that trying-out with someone wouldn't do any harm, kind of "let's see where this goes" kinda thing.
-- She also said it would be nice to win some.
-- She told him of the try-out after the fact, so he wouldn't find out from somebody else (her words).
-- She admitted that they had agreed to a long-term investment in the partnership because of the compatibility in many areas.
-- Couldn't work with the FNC because of the distance.
-- Didn't see the need to apologize for her actions.


The gent's perspective.
-- Was told after the fact (never knew who it was, but figured it out).
-- Was invested for the long term.
-- Teachers said that if they had stuck together he would have eventually been better than him in about 1.5 years (something about his technical knowledge/foundation being stronger than hers)
-- She was observed to have been approached by the FNC twice, and twice she told him she just had a question (they where in ballroom hold at the sidelines of a competition)--later admitted they were trying to figure out whether they matched, and when they should try-out.
-- After finding out, he did tell her to pursue the opportunity, because he knew he couldn't in good conscience stay in the partnership without being angry.
-- Is bitter about it because of two things:
---- He thought he deserved better consideration and respect, but instead was lied to, twice.
---- She never apologized for her actions.



Both dancers want absolutely nothing to do with dance anymore.
She doesn't even look at her dance pictures.
He moved on to another hobby.
The Former National Champion found another, less proficient but more accessible lady, and today is regarded with much respect for his character.
Perhaps totally oblivious of the fiasco he visited upon these two people.




m

[mamboqueen]

It's so unfortuante that it had to end that way....with both quitting. So, um, is he over 35 and doing latin?? Ugh...what a waste of a perfectly good lead.

My questions is -- would things actually have been different if she had told him in advance?? (I'm not defending what she did...just wondering if the outcome really would have been different). I mean, if she had told him ahead of time, how well would they have continued to work together -- wouldn't he always be wondering?

[madmaximus]

I dunno...sometimes you gotta look out for Number 1.

True, you have to look out for number 1.
We compete to win.
But at what cost?

By asking a partnered-lady, the FNC forced himself into the delicate balance of a partnership.
And I think two of the three parties involved displayed an appalling lack of character and class.
One could argue that this situation is trivial and it is how it is in the dance world.
But then one can't help but think of the implications of the absence of consideration and ethical behaviour (by the FNC and the Lady) in larger matters.

Being a Champion requires looking out for number 1.
But it also carries with it a burden of responsibility.
And I don't think it is incompatible with ethics.



m

[madmaximus]

It's so unfortuante that it had to end that way....with both quitting. So, um, is he over 35 and doing latin?? Ugh...what a waste of a perfectly good lead.

My questions is -- would things actually have been different if she had told him in advance?? (I'm not defending what she did...just wondering if the outcome really would have been different). I mean, if she had told him ahead of time, how well would they have continued to work together -- wouldn't he always be wondering?

He is now over 35.
Former 10-dancer, focused on Standard.
about 5'10", dark-hair, hyper-intelligent Oxford grad.
Rows for hobby now--did a couple of layouts for cosmetics ads in college, good looking guy.

He said the irony was, if she had told him about it before the fact, he would have driven her to the try-out himself.
He really liked the lady that much.


m

[wooh]

Some people are partners because they really choose to be together, some are partners more by default. I dance, you dance, we're more or less compatible, let's give it a go until something better comes along. So if FNC asks a member of a "chosen" partnership for a try, then it's up to the partner in question to say, "Listen, we're not really looking for new partners" or to say, "Oh wow, thanks for asking, we're just together until something better comes along, so let's see if this is something better." FNC has no way of knowing, unless he happens to be good friends with the pair, if they're a "chosen couple" or "default couple."
With limited knowledge, I don't know if FNC can really be to blame for this mess.
Sounds like female partner could have handled the situation a lot better. If nothing else, done the try-out, found out it wouldn't work out, then said to partner, "I was really flattered by the offer, it didn't work out, it's nothing against you, it's just, it was a FORMER NATIONAL CHAMP asking little old ME! I'm really sorry. I hope we can get past this and still be partners, or at the very least, you can forgive me and we can be friends."
Even when you technically haven't done anything wrong (whether she did or not), if it's going to hurt someone's feelings, as this did, an apology is still in order.
And after all was said and done, if FNC was aware of the mess, it would be classy of him to say to the guy, "Listen, I didn't know you had long term plans, thought you were together by default, and you obviously know how great she is, I had to at least try. I'm really sorry for any trouble."

[mamboqueen]

Well, maybe with time, he'll reconsider. I guess it's good that he has something else bringing him some joy in life. I just hate to hear about a dancer quitting....

[fascination]

To get some clarity, I talked to my friend and his ex-partner separately yesterday.

The lady's perspective.
-- She thought that trying-out with someone wouldn't do any harm, kind of "let's see where this goes" kinda thing.
-- She also said it would be nice to win some.
-- She told him of the try-out after the fact, so he wouldn't find out from somebody else (her words).
-- She admitted that they had agreed to a long-term investment in the partnership because of the compatibility in many areas.
-- Couldn't work with the FNC because of the distance.
-- Didn't see the need to apologize for her actions.


The gent's perspective.
-- Was told after the fact (never knew who it was, but figured it out).
-- Was invested for the long term.
-- Teachers said that if they had stuck together he would have eventually been better than him in about 1.5 years (something about his technical knowledge/foundation being stronger than hers)
-- She was observed to have been approached by the FNC twice, and twice she told him she just had a question (they where in ballroom hold at the sidelines of a competition)--later admitted they were trying to figure out whether they matched, and when they should try-out.
-- After finding out, he did tell her to pursue the opportunity, because he knew he couldn't in good conscience stay in the partnership without being angry.
-- Is bitter about it because of two things:
---- He thought he deserved better consideration and respect, but instead was lied to, twice.
---- She never apologized for her actions.



Both dancers want absolutely nothing to do with dance anymore.
She doesn't even look at her dance pictures.
He moved on to another hobby.
The Former National Champion found another, less proficient but more accessible lady, and today is regarded with much respect for his character.
Perhaps totally oblivious of the fiasco he visited upon these two people.




mshe should apologize an then perhaps it wouldn't BE such a fiasco...and again...I am reluctant to blame the FNC...she lied twice about the dance hold thing and isn't sorry...and she was the one in a partnership to begin with...that the relationship doesn't seem mendable ISN"T the FNC's fault even if being known for his stellar rep is galling to your friend...the choices that he and his former lady have made since then have been their own, it may be easier to blame the FNC, but not terribly accurate IMO and not good for moving into the future realistically...and anything is salvagable if people want it enough...and I doubt that the question would be out here if someone didn't want the partnership back...perhaps they should say so ...and perhaps the lady could at least be sorry for the hurt she caused if not the actions she took...but if she couldn't commit not to take them again, the gentleman needs to grieve this and move on...hopefully to a new partner...if not with the old...still, if they were SO compatible and all that...friends apologize to friends........

[fascination]

It's so unfortuante that it had to end that way....with both quitting. So, um, is he over 35 and doing latin?? Ugh...what a waste of a perfectly good lead.

or same age as above and in the midwest doing smooth and standard?:cool:

[fascination]

He is now over 35.
Former 10-dancer, focused on Standard.
about 5'10", dark-hair, hyper-intelligent Oxford grad.
Rows for hobby now--did a couple of layouts for cosmetics ads in college, good looking guy.

He said the irony was, if she had told him about it before the fact, he would have driven her to the try-out himself.
He really liked the lady that much.


mprobably should be a new thread on DA but why the helk do women treat such awesome nice guys like crap???...

[Joe]

why the hell do women treat such awesome nice guys like crap???...
'nuff said.

[Joe]

Even with the additional background, I still don't feel the FNC did anything wrong. He approached a woman with whom he was interested in dancing and asked if she'd be interested. It's not the FNC's duty to ask the male partner if he can ask the woman to dance with him.

What if the female partner wanted to dance with the FNC, and the male partner had been approached for permission and told the FNC he couldn't ask because he didn't want to lose his partner?

[fascination]

'nuff said.I said helk:cool:

[redhead]

Even with the additional background, I still don't feel the FNC did anything wrong. He approached a woman with whom he was interested in dancing and asked if she'd be interested. It's not the FNC's duty to ask the male partner if he can ask the woman to dance with him.

What if the female partner wanted to dance with the FNC, and the male partner had been approached for permission and told the FNC he couldn't ask because he didn't want to lose his partner?
I agree.
It's often worth asking, some partnerships are "doomed" and both partners agree on that, but they look fine from the outside. It's only after talking to one or both partners that one can learn that.

[Joe]

Until you ask, you don't know. Either partner, or both may just be biding their time until someone else comes along.

[waltzgirl]

Actually, it sounds to me like FNC might have just dodged a bullet there. If she is a) immature enough not to be willing to apologize for hurting her good friend and b) so uncommitted to dancing that she quit because one partnership ended, then he may be better off with another partner.

I agree that FNC didn't do anything wrong by asking (unless he was close friends with them both and knew in detail what their commitment to the partnership was). In any relationship, there will be outside challenges, everything from schedule difficulties to someone making a pass at a married person. It's up the the members of the relationship to enforce its boundaries and say "no" to things that threaten the relationship.

I do have some sympathy for the lady. How could you pass up a try-out with an FNC? And I can understand not wanting to tell your current partner if you weren't sure the new one would work out, because of the possible emotional complications of just having the try-out. It's sort of like, you don't tell your boss you're going on another interview. You tell him when you get the other job. And maybe she read him right--he did respond pretty dramatically, by quitting dancing altogether. It's easy to say in retrospect he would have been happy for her, but how would he really have felt over time dancing with someone he knew had tried to dump him?

That said, once she made a choice on how she was going to handle it, she had a ethical obligation to make that choice work. Either:

a) be open from the beginning

b) keep the first tryout a secret--really a secret. That means, not being seen at a comp in ballroom hold with FNC, having the tryout somewhere they wouldn't be seen by other ballroomers, and, once she had determined that she wasn't going to go with the new partnership, keeping her mouth shut for eternity.

As far as I'm concerned, it's the half-a$$ed way she handled it that caused all the trouble. And she certainly should have apologized for hurting her partner. Even if she felt it was OK to do the try-out, even if she felt that she was perhaps protecting the partnership by not telling him beforehand about something that was just a possibility, she should be sorry that she hurt him.

[Joe]

I guess you could also blame the FNC for the halfassed way he also handled the tryouts. He's just as responsible for secrecy, which he should have realized was of the essense in such situations.

[fascination]

true...but FNC has no relationship to whether or not anything can now be salvaged and so while it may make it easier to mend fences if a large portion of blame be given to the FNC...the respnsibility for what has happened to the partnership, is entirely upon the two who were in it...IMO...and it is of no use to ponder the FNC anymore...only to ponder why these two friends can't be friends anymore...that is up to them, if that is not salvagable, that lies squarely on both their shoulders IMO