Hip Hop Lindy?

[pygmalion]

I saw this on another board and was totally shocked. Hip hop lindy? Is it possible/popular to mix elements of other dances in with lindy? What dances? And is that still really lindy or some new evolving dance form? Has anybody seen this done? Seen it taught?

[Sagitta]

Vince mentioned in the favorite swing moves thread that he mixes up hip hop with WCS. If he doesn't already he just might start doing so now. :)

Haven't done that much hip hop, myself. :)

[Vince A]

It would still be a WCS . . . just because you mix in another move, say from hip hop, just shows your versatility and personality.

In one WCS Jack and Jill, whre the music broke into a very slow "up and down" kind of tempo, my brain heard Waltz, and I took my partner right into a Waltz . . . and ended in a dip and brought her out on count 1 just as the music went back to normal beat!

Speaking of dips . . . they can be done in just about any dance . . . is it still WCS if you dip a follow in a WCS?

Don't you do check steps in several dances . . . if you do . . . are those still the dances that you intended them to be?

Chasses are performed in several dances . . . it's a step or a move, not necessarily a titled pattern.

[pygmalion]

I see your point, Vince. The reason I asked about evolution is because I'm pretty sure there are some swing purists on the line. I'm curious about what really defines a swing dance, and where you draw the line.

[Sagitta]

I'm definitely not a purist!! I believe in dancing to the music. Limiting oneself to certain steps/moves because that's that is done in one dance is restricting/choking!!

[suek]

For me the "purity" of lindy is in the stance, the rhythm and the basic footwork. It's a vernacular jazz dance, and I see all kinds of jazz steps and footwork being used. It stays pure, IMHO, if it swings.

[lindy jihad]

there are some swing purists on the line.

that would be me. if its not teh lindy, dont call it teh lindy. you can do it all you want, just dont call it something its not.

[Sagitta]

I don't!! I just call it dancing. Just like cooking. No names please!! Just sets people for with expectations that may not match what you have. :)

[SDsalsaguy]

there are some swing purists on the line.

that would be me. if its not teh lindy, dont call it teh lindy. you can do it all you want, just dont call it something its not.
I understand lindy jihad's point...I've seen some great performances, for instance, but when close to half a routine is flips and drops and tricks, how is that a "salsa routine"???? :shock: :shock: :shock:

This really gets at the underlying issue of what constitutes the spirit of the dance. Take Vince's example above…the music, to him, dictated waltz. But there's still a huge difference between doing waltz during an otherwise WCS song and doing waltz and calling it WCS. There's an under girding conceptualization of what is and what isn't true to a dance and it has far less to what you do (just steps as Sagitta says) then in how you do them. All of which is, of course, just the tip of this particular iceberg…

[Sagitta]

And getting different steps done in the spirit of a particular dance comes with experience. :) A whole dance done to waltz instead of WCS!! I shudder at the thought.

[d nice]

I saw this on another board and was totally shocked. Hip hop lindy? Is it possible/popular to mix elements of other dances in with lindy? What dances? And is that still really lindy or some new evolving dance form? Has anybody seen this done? Seen it taught?

I've seen it, danced and taught it.

It is perfectly possible to mix certain elements of one or several dances into another dance... however like in all things there is a good way which keeps the dance "pure" throughout, and one that doesn't.

In a vernacular jazz dance where your inspiration comes from is all together unimportant... how you execute it is. The Lindy Hop is a vernacular Jazz Dance and so is Hip-Hop. The Lindy Hoppers of old were well known for stealing moves from not just other dances, but other disciplines entirely... but they always made it their own, putting the undeniable mark of lindy hop on it. A move unaltered will nearly always look out of place in a different dance. A rock and Roll aerial uses different hand holds, different timing, and often a completely different aesthetic than a lindy hop aerial. A ballet pirouette is different than a vernacular jazz pirouette.

It is all about adaption.

Using hip hop moves to a swing song the moves must be modified to fit the dance.

Using lindy hop to dance to many forms of hip hop music the whole dance must be modified... meaning it is no longer lindy hop but something new. Not all hip hop requires this change though, there are several styles that use swing rhythms and some even jazz improvisations... which is only natural since hip-hop is a direct descendant of jazz.

Personally if I'm going to dance to hip-hop, I'd prefer to do Chicago Steppin', but thats just me, thats how I roll.

[d nice]

The Lindy Hoppers of old were well known for stealing moves from not just other dances, but other disciplines entirely... but they always made it their own, putting the undeniable mark of lindy hop on it.

This actually inspired my current signature on the Canadian Swingboard Lindyhopper.ca, "Theives In The Temple of Ballroom"

[pygmalion]

Okay. Then at the risk of sounding ignorant, which is certainly not my intent LOL! What makes a swing a swing? The music? The styling? The posture? Something else?

[SDsalsaguy]

"Theives In The Temple of Ballroom"
I love it d nice! :D

[d nice]

Perhaps its the language... "What makes a swing a swing?" I'm not sure what you are asking.

What makes Swing (the sub-genre of jazz music develop in the late 20's rising to its height f popularty in the late 30's to early 40's) different from other forms of Jazz or other music genres in general?

- Or -

What makes music swing (regardless of the genre or sub genre)?

Perhaps you are asking something else entirely.

[pygmalion]

You're right. I should have been specific. What I was asking is what makes a swing dance, and swing dance, for example lindy, and not some other dance. If you can mix in elements from anything you want, how do you know when the dance you're doing has ceased to be swing and become something else?

Although the question about what makes swing music "swing" is intriguing as well. I've heard or read many people talking about music needing to have that swing. What exactly is that swing something in the musical timing, styling and placement of accents, I'm guessing. :?:

[Vince A]

I guess . . . if I walked up to you, offered my hand, and said, "Do you West Coast Swing?" You placed your hand in mine and its off to the dance floor to WCS we go. My intent is to WCS. I if we do anything, other than what is led, this is "play," and we can play until given an indication (a lead, an sometimes an anchor, etc.) to do otherwise. This "play" can be anything - hip hop, moonwalking, etc. Even a Waltz.

Now, when you can sneak these moves in, in the middle of a simple pattern, say a right side pass with a double turn for the follower, then all the better - and it is done all the time. You an play or mix anything in you want, as long as you don't take away my lead!

If you hijack me, and take the lead, I'll afford you the same luxury!

[d nice]

You're right. I should have been specific. What I was asking is what makes a swing dance, and swing dance, for example lindy, and not some other dance. If you can mix in elements from anything you want, how do you know when the dance you're doing has ceased to be swing and become something else?

Every dance has some very basic defing elements. I won't go into the others due to the topic of this thread, but I will discuss Lindy Hop.

Lindy Hop is defined by the eight count swing out. The physical movements used when executing this move dictate the partner interaction, frame, connection, generation and use of momentum, the rhythm of the move, and the relationship with the floor. Any move that maintains these elements is Lindy Hop... regardless of where it was originally derived.

Now these elements are not static, unbendable, untransmutable and therefor easily shattered. They are flexible, elastic, but ever present. If I want to moonwalk in the middle of a move, it is perfectly possible... the question is am I capable of doing it while maintaing the lion's share of the above elements untouched.

Although the question about what makes swing music "swing" is intriguing as well. I've heard or read many people talking about music needing to have that swing. What exactly is that swing something in the musical timing, styling and placement of accents, I'm guessing. :?:

A swung rhythm can most easily be described as a push and pull in timing of beats. Borrowing from Peter to pay Paul as the saying goes. If we look at a bar of music it is divided into four even parts (4/4 time signature). Four notes filling the four sections... these are quarter notes. There is musical notation that divides the notes into smaller units... eith notes and sixteenth notes. This as far as I'm going to go into composition and musiic theory... Think of a bar in mathmatical terms with fractions and while not exact is easy enough for everyone to understand.

If I set a metronbome to ticking, it would hit every quarter note with even division until set to do otherwise. If I counted out the numbers I would say 1 2 3 4. Inbetween each number there is space which we could call an "&" so I could count it out 1 & 2 & 3 & 4. This is where most dances operate stepping on a whole number or on the half, and most of todays music endeavors to play within this framework.

Swing music (and pretty much every form of Jazz, Blues, Gospel etc.) does not. A swing dancer and swing musician will "ignore" the "&" and instead place that note/step closer to the number using an "a" so we could notate it 1 & a2 & a3 & a4. Now I could actually continue to break down the space inbetween out 1 & a2 but I think the idea is understood now, and this is good enough to take it to the next level.

If my rhythm for lindy hop is Step, Step, Triple Step, Step, Step, Triple Step, it would cover two bars of music (eight whole counts). We would normaly write it or say it as 1, 2, 3 & 4, 5, 6, 7 & 8. HOWEVER... what we dance it as is 1, 2, 3 a4, 5, 6, 7 a8... we aren't actually stepping in the half count this is what "swings" the triple step versus the way it is done in cha-cha.

This is why a number of purists (both Lindy Hop and West Coast) are saying that the new school "funky" West Coast Swing is not a swing dance/doesn't swing/ is pulling the dance down etc. etc. etc. When you dance to music that does not swing you have a choice dance and force your swung triple in there anyway regardless of what the music is actually doing, or to dance to the rhythms of the music and lose one of the defining elements (possibly the most important defining element) of the dance.

Personally I have no problem with the continued development/metamorphasis of one dance spawning another, I love it as a matter of fact. I think it is important though that the original character of a dance be preserved. I'd hate for what was called West Coast Swing ten years ago to disappear. Grow, evolve, reach its full potential yes... but the discarding of certain elements that originally defined the dance will likely lead to the death of the original form.

[Vince A]

Thanks Damon . . . very, very wel written.

I too, would hate to see the WCS of ten years ago disappear . . . as when true "swing" music comes on, that is what I feel and dance, versus what I do if a "funky" song comes on. Same dance, but looks entirely different because it is preceived by the brain as entirely different.

[pygmalion]

Swing music (and pretty much every form of Jazz, Blues, Gospel etc.) does not. A swing dancer and swing musician will "ignore" the "&" and instead place that note/step closer to the number using an "a" so we could notate it 1 & a2 & a3 & a4. Now I could actually continue to break down the space inbetween out 1 & a2 but I think the idea is understood now, and this is good enough to take it to the next level.

If my rhythm for lindy hop is Step, Step, Triple Step, Step, Step, Triple Step, it would cover two bars of music (eight whole counts). We would normaly write it or say it as 1, 2, 3 & 4, 5, 6, 7 & 8. HOWEVER... what we dance it as is 1, 2, 3 a4, 5, 6, 7 a8... we aren't actually stepping in the half count this is what "swings" the triple step versus the way it is done in cha-cha.




Perfectly clear to me, dnice. At least I think so. You're talking about using tripets, which sort of stretches the triple step over a duplet rhythm structure. Rather than the "squared off" timing of tradition syncopation. Yes?

[Sagitta]

Great explanation d nice! When I was teaching someone about swing a couple weeks ago I explained about the syncopation in the music, and eventually by demonstrating the triple step done 3 & 4 vs 3 a4 I was able to get the idea across. Now I have a more articulate explanation to go along with it!! :)

[d nice]

Thats it jen.

I'm glad the explanation made sense.

It isn't exact or as detailed as it needs to be to truly explain what is going on, for example to explain why Glenn Miller doesn't swsing as much (or even close) as Count Basie, but it is good enough to explain the basics to a dancer versus a musician.

[pygmalion]

Cool. Thanks. 8) :D

[DancingMommy]

I saw this on another board and was totally shocked. Hip hop lindy? Is it possible/popular to mix elements of other dances in with lindy? What dances? And is that still really lindy or some new evolving dance form? Has anybody seen this done? Seen it taught?

If I dance Lindy to a Foxtrot, does that make it LindyFox?

I think that dances evolve over time (well I *know* it, but hey). Call it whatever you like. :D

I think that whatever a dancer brings to the dance is as valid as the "time-tested" steps that have come to be "accepted" as defining the dance form itself. It's about personal style.

It is defintely possible to mix elements of other dance forms into Lindy (or any other dance for that matter). The question is are we snobs enough to say "blah blah dance isn't *really* historically accurate"? Do we look down upon those that like to "change it up" a bit and add something fresh?

I'm staying neutral on this one. I have an opinion (believe me) :twisted: but I'm not going to tell you what it is. Been blasted too many times. 8)

[DancingMommy]

Okay. Then at the risk of sounding ignorant, which is certainly not my intent LOL! What makes a swing a swing? The music? The styling? The posture? Something else?

It's all about the music. 8)

It makes no difference if it's sweet or hot....

The dance is defined by the music to which it is danced. Before there were definable "dance names", there was the music.

If a "waltz" is played, the only logical thing to do is dance the Waltz. The problem lies in the fact that some are not as aware of the tempi having names (ie bossa nova, rumba, etc) as they are of the proper names of dance styles (ie Waltz, Samba, etc).

In fact, I have some old 78s (for the yungun's them's records - also known as LPs, Vinyl) that have the musical style/Dance Proper Name listed - as in Artist, Title, Dance Name. Apparently this was pretty popular in the early days. 8)

The key is to understand the music. A former co-worker of my hubby had a degree in Latin Jazz. He explained all the nuances of Latin music rhythms to hubby. What makes a "rumba" a *rumba* por ejemplo. If you understand the music, you'll understand the dance.

Once you are aware of the nuances of the music to which you dance, you begin to be able to see the similarities (a la hip hop to lindy) and the derivations. You become a better "dancer" because you understand the music.

[DancingMommy]

I've heard or read many people talking about music needing to have that swing. What exactly is that swing something in the musical timing, styling and placement of accents, I'm guessing. :?:

It's the timing of the triplets. They're "swung".. "ta-ta-ta" or "ch-ch-ch"

I don't know how to make the sound for you via keyboard.... Listen to some drums that have they snare doing a 123 kinda thing. It'll give you an idea...

[DancingMommy]

Lindy Hop is defined by the eight count swing out. The physical movements used when executing this move dictate the partner interaction, frame, connection, generation and use of momentum, the rhythm of the move, and the relationship with the floor. Any move that maintains these elements is Lindy Hop... regardless of where it was originally derived.

Now these elements are not static, unbendable, untransmutable and therefor easily shattered. They are flexible, elastic, but ever present. If I want to moonwalk in the middle of a move, it is perfectly possible... the question is am I capable of doing it while maintaing the lion's share of the above elements untouched.
....
Personally I have no problem with the continued development/metamorphasis of one dance spawning another, I love it as a matter of fact. I think it is important though that the original character of a dance be preserved. I'd hate for what was called West Coast Swing ten years ago to disappear. Grow, evolve, reach its full potential yes... but the discarding of certain elements that originally defined the dance will likely lead to the death of the original form.

This is the BEST I've ever heard this put. You should write a doctoral thesis on it. I'm serious. YAY for d nice!

[pygmalion]

I've heard or read many people talking about music needing to have that swing. What exactly is that swing something in the musical timing, styling and placement of accents, I'm guessing. :?:

It's the timing of the triplets. They're "swung".. "ta-ta-ta" or "ch-ch-ch"

I don't know how to make the sound for you via keyboard.... Listen to some drums that have they snare doing a 123 kinda thing. It'll give you an idea...

Yeah. I have a pretty good idea. :) To add a little more confusion to the mix LOL!, I pulled down this description from the web.

Swing music emphasizes the division of the beat a lot. That's the essence of the swing feel. Swing clearly divides in 2-beat units, and the music usually has strong backbeats that differentiate between the strong beat (downbeat) or the weak beat (backbeat). In 4/4 (common time), true swing is neither a triplet nor a dotted eight and sixteenth note pattern; it is somewhere in between. How much in between depends on the song and the people playing the song. A sixteenth pattern is counted 1 e & a 2 e & a 3 e & a 4 e & a. A triplet pattern is 1 la le 2 la le 3 la le 4 la le.


1 e & a 2 sixteenths
1 . . . . . . . . . . . 2
1 la le 2 triplets

A swing is between the 1 a 2 a 3 a 4 a of the first example and the 1 le 2 le 3 le 4 le of the second. A hard swing approaches the dotted eight and sixteenth note feel. An easy swing is closer to triplets. Straight eighths are not swing but you can still dance a Swing dance to them.
Aside: All swing music is not written in 4/4 time; much of it is written in 2/2 time, sometimes 6/8 or 12/8. Sometimes a particular song, especially faster ones, can be found in 4/4 time in one book and 2/2 time in another. But let's ignore that for now. To make things ever fuzzier to the casual observer, most swing sheet music is notated as straight eighths with the instruction "with a swing feel" over the first measure of music. This was originally done to make the music copyist's job easier in the days when all music was hand written, and the tradition follows today even though music is usually typeset. A good musician turns that notation into the swing feel without thinking too much about it. Musicians do not learn to swing as beginners. Swing is an interpretation of music. It is the accents/legatos and staccatos/stringendos as well as how you slur and tie the notes that makes a particular tune swing the way it does.

[Vince A]

Great words d nice, but I do have a question . . . but do not want to take anything away from what yu wrote . . .
If, where you wrote, "Lindy Hop is defined . . .," I took out the words 'Lindy Hop' in two places and the word 'eight,' could your definition also apply to WCS?

[d nice]

No... yes... well the classic styled west coast swing yes. Take a look at the US Open Anniversary tape. They show various performance pieces and you can see the dance change from something that looks remarkably like Smooth Style Lindy (Dean Collin's was stioll alive and his proteges were active and visible) the connection to lindy hop is strong and rhythm is king in musicality. There is a constant sense of motion and it is possible to take one basic move and see how the entire dance is reflected in that.

With modern west coast you can't. The idea of musicality has become both much simpler, yet more detailed. In Lindy Hop we call this "micromusicality" where the dancers are attempting to acknowledge every note (or as many as their skill level allows for them too) being played and key off the melodic lines rather than the rhythmic lines.

Since none of the basic moves exhibit this trait, they all still are based off the rhythmic approach in execution and character I would say that modern WCS requires a very different description.

This is why from a kinesiologists stand point the dance is either split into two seperate forms or is ripe to do so.

Robert Royston has pointed out that swing is cyclical (which I entirely agree with) that wcs has always had new influences come in both music and dance, vastly changing it for a short while and then it comes back to its base with a somewhat better understanding of music, new moves, and new creative ideas, but always back to that core.

It'll be interesting to see if it happens this time as it has in the recent past without spawning a new dance or if it will duplicate lindy hop from a historica view and "fracture" spawning one or more new dance forms.

FYI - It isn't just a case of "funky" versus blues, but ballroom parameters becoming "standard". Flashlighting and anchoring for example... two well accepted rarely questioned techniques, but neither ever existed in the original style of wcs as techniques in and of themselves. Those were qualities that were achieved through other techniques... by turning the end result into the technique, basic techniques like dynamic frame and continual movement have become less developed and the dance has changed because of it. (this is only bad in the context that certain moves from WCS in the early eighties would never work with todays intermediate dancers and quite a few advanced dancers).

[d nice]

Aside: All swing music is not written in 4/4 time; much of it is written in 2/2 time, sometimes 6/8 or 12/8. Sometimes a particular song, especially faster ones, can be found in 4/4 time in one book and 2/2 time in another. But let's ignore that for now.

Erm... actually most early swing music was written in 2/4 time not 2/2 time. It is rare to find Swing music written in anythihng but 2/4 and 4/4 time. Swing as a sub-genre of jazz... now if the autrhor was meaning a swinging song as a rhythmic technique used throughout jazz then absolutely you will find some odd time signatures (Dave Bruebecks "Take Five" LP nothing but odd time signatures).

This brings to mind something Swingmommy said about Lindy to Foxtrot music, and records that have a dance name attributed to them... Pretty artificial for most. Early recorded Swing Songs were marked as foxtrot, because the record industry had no idea that what was being danced in the black ballrooms to those songs was lindy hop.

To make things ever fuzzier to the casual observer, most swing sheet music is notated as straight eighths with the instruction "with a swing feel" over the first measure of music. This was originally done to make the music copyist's job easier in the days when all music was hand written, and the tradition follows today even though music is usually typeset. A good musician turns that notation into the swing feel without thinking too much about it. Musicians do not learn to swing as beginners. Swing is an interpretation of music. It is the accents/legatos and staccatos/stringendos as well as how you slur and tie the notes that makes a particular tune swing the way it does.

SO very true... That is why when you get a good classically trained musician playing swing music he sounds bad, when compared to a jazz musician who may have no formal training at all. Swing is something you have to feel, to make decisions about where you are going to do something or what to do, it is a developed instinct .

[pygmalion]

SO very true... That is why when you get a good classically trained musician playing swing music he sounds bad, when compared to a jazz musician who may have no formal training at all. Swing is something you have to feel, to make decisions about where you are going to do something or what to do, it is a developed instinct .


Hey what can I say? I did orchestra, choir, concert band and marching band, no jazz band. I did go to jazz band rehearsals, though. To watch my piano player boyfriend play! :lol: I don't guess that counts. :lol: :lol:

[SwinginBoo]

It isn't exact or as detailed as it needs to be to truly explain what is going on, for example to explain why Glenn Miller doesn't swsing as much (or even close) as Count Basie, but it is good enough to explain the basics to a dancer versus a musician.

I wanted to ask you about this Glen Miller thing. My boyfriend and I were discussing him about a week ago and what kind of dance you would dance to his music. What do you suggest?

[d nice]

Foxtrot or Peabody, for most of it. There are about a handful of GREAT lindy songs but Miller was not a Swing Band, or even reallly much of a Jazz band... if you read his autobiography he says it himself. Glenn Miller was the O-Town of the Swing Era. He used Jazz and Swing stylings but his music was really pop as was the Andrew Sisters (much like O-Town uses Hip-Hop and R&B stylings but are in fact pop).

This is not a bad thing, I actually love Glenn Miller and the Andrew Sisters music... I just don't like dancing lindy hop to either group for the most part.

[SwinginBoo]

Thanks for the information! :D I figured a foxtrot would come into play somewhere.

[DancingMommy]

Foxtrot or Peabody, for most of it. There are about a handful of GREAT lindy songs but Miller was not a Swing Band, or even reallly much of a Jazz band... if you read his autobiography he says it himself. Glenn Miller was the O-Town of the Swing Era. He used Jazz and Swing stylings but his music was really pop as was the Andrew Sisters (much like O-Town uses Hip-Hop and R&B stylings but are in fact pop).

This is not a bad thing, I actually love Glenn Miller and the Andrew Sisters music... I just don't like dancing lindy hop to either group for the most part.

Thank you thank you thank you!!!!

You have about the best perspective on Lindy Hop I've ever seen put into words. You could almost make me a convert - and people who know me IRL would say that's almost inpossible!

I've never thought of GM or AS as "swing". In fact, I think that a lot of the furor over Lindy Hop and it's historocity as a dance and the "authentic" recreation of it has been a tad overblown in our area. In fact, in our locale, it caused a MAJOR split in the dance "scene". It was worse than a church split. We had the First Church of Dean Collins and the Frankie Manning AME. It was as if the dancing itself didn't matter as much as which "denomination" you followed. To a dancer dancer this is kind of ridiculous.

One of the main reasons I tend to stay out of Swing/Lindy discussions is because of all the bad blood that has gone one around here. It's a shame. After 4 years, things have sort of settled down a bit, but there are still certain individuals I tend to avoid because of the animosity generate because I'm a stinking ballroom dancer and therefore couldn't possibly have anything constructive to add... blablabla...


Have you compiled your body of work into a written form? I'd be interste to see it all in a book form. I think it woulod be of interest to lots of people. And I like what you said about Dave Bruebeck... That album rocks just because of the wacky time sigs.

[d nice]

Well... I'm in research mode for a book (God alone knows when I'll actually start writing), but it is about the history of my family and how jazz has always been a recurring thing in our clan. Not so much of a book about lindy hop.

Now my dance notebooks are full of this kind of thing, as are a number of website/forums. I've had students threaten to steal my notebooks when they see them. Then again this was before half of my personal archive was lost on a plane and never recovered. :(

[SDsalsaguy]

half of my personal archive was lost on a plane and never recovered. :(

:shock: :shock: :shock:

That sucks!!!!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:

I was warned very early on to always keep my field notes and interview tapes with me in my carry-on to avoid exactly such a catastrophe . . . thank G-d I had someone around to give me this advice.

[d nice]

Problem is I was moving from SF to Boston and my personal archive could never even remotely fit into a carry-on.

[SDsalsaguy]

Ouch! My sympathies on that. Given the nature of my own research and data collection I can really empathize with what a tremendous loss that must have been. How long ago did this happen if you don't mind my asking?

[d nice]

2000, still working on building it back up.

[Sarah]

half of my personal archive was lost on a plane and never recovered. :(

:shock: :shock: :shock:

That sucks!!!!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:

I was warned very early on to always keep my field notes and interview tapes with me in my carry-on to avoid exactly such a catastrophe . . . thank G-d I had someone around to give me this advice.

I know of one guy who regularly backed up his thesis and data not only to tape (it was a while ago), but to a file server in, I think it was Spain. Nothing short of an asteroid strike or really coordinated gremlins was going to take out both.

I happen to think that's overkill, but.......

Cheers
Sarah

[SDsalsaguy]

2000, still working on building it back up.
Is it all materials that lend themselves to being backed up? I know, for instance, that some of my interviews and observations could not be replicated if, G-d forbid, I was to lose them. Sure, I can ask someone about a given event/result at any opoint, but that's different then asking them about a major/significant result less then 24 hours after it happens. I'm hoping that you don't have the same type of problem although having to back track is still fairly painful... :?

[d nice]

Worse than you can imagine... clips of my progression through lindy hop, privates with my mentors, personal archives.

[SDsalsaguy]

Ouch. :cry:

My condolences.