Pet Peeves at Dances

[Phil Owl]

It's a question I can't help but ask, it always produces interesting insights and responses.

Mine would be:

1) People with bad hygene, especially when you can tell from a distance (OY!!)

2) People who constantly criticize you, constantly correct you and try to teach you while dancing, a HUGE no-no!! This is very demeaning and belittling.

3) A woman who won't let you lead

4) Snottyand/or disinterested attitudes. The worst one is when someone projects this air of "Im doing you a favor by dancing with you!". Dancing is supposed to be FUN!!

5) At social dances, couples who have complete absolute disregard for others around them (exemplified for instance, by darting in between other couples showing off their competition moves that need a whole empty floor to pull off. That is just pure arrogance!)

6) When someone refuses a dance with you, saying they're sitting it out or just leaving, then seeing them seconds later dancing with someone else, talk about RUDE!!!!!!!! That's a person I would NEVER ask again!

7) Snobbery. It kills me how some folks look down on other types of dances and the people that love them. For instance, I've gotten incredulous looks and expressions from one or two folks because I like EC AND WC Swing. To me, it's all good!

What are yours, from the ridiculous to the sublime?

[cindymoose]

Add to the list: people who seem to think that they are good enough to not "need" private instruction. There is NO SUBSTITUTE for it. No one "needs" private lessons, but most will certainly benefit from the input of a qualified instructor.

[Spitfire]

6) When someone refuses a dance with you, saying they're sitting it out or just leaving, then seeing them seconds later dancing with someone else, talk about RUDE!!!!!!!! That's a person I would NEVER ask again!

Of all these this is the one that I see most often done. They say they're tired and need to rest and then they are up dancing with someone else. I sometimes wonder though if the guy who asks next is pushy about it. :o

[Liz076]

:lol:
I'd have to say that one of my biggest peeves is when somone is considered a big fish in a little pond where they come from, but wont leave their own realm for fear of not recieving the same attention and compliments. I call it the "shock-collar syndrome." If they dare to cross the threshhold of another vicinity, they'll recieve a shock around their neck. :roll:

[MissAlyssa]

Someone that concentrates on making a conversation so bad that they keep stepping on you. Please don't talk about what you had for dinner, how you cooked it, what you ate on, which wine went best, and what you were wearing while we are tango-ing!! :roll:

[Vince A]

MIss Alyssa . . . "especially if they haven't brushed their teeth yet!!!"

[MissAlyssa]

Oh gosh, don't remind me. I had a guy that was in my training class that always had breath that smelled like sour milk. EVERY DAY!! eew. :shock:

[DanceMentor]

I remember about 10 years ago when I was a trainee the studio owner took me aside and told me some of the ladies had complained that I smelled. I was shattered. Did I really smell? Who was complaining? Needless to say, I always made sure I was clean, wearing deodorant and carrying breath mints.

As much as it may hurt the person, I think you should try to find a tactful way to let them know, because you are actually doing them a good service by letting them know.

[samba ajr]

6) When someone refuses a dance with you, saying they're sitting it out or just leaving, then seeing them seconds later dancing with someone else, talk about RUDE!!!!!!!! That's a person I would NEVER ask again!

Of all these this is the one that I see most often done. They say they're tired and need to rest and then they are up dancing with someone else. I sometimes wonder though if the guy who asks next is pushy about it. :o

I did this, once (very careful now). The second person who asked was one of the hosts, I knew him well, and I...--he put out his hand and my automatic response was to get up and dance. The first person hadn't even realized I "dissed" him, until I apologized to him! (Still dancing with him a lot). Keep in mind that it's tricky for some of us to refuse a dance to begin with, so doing it twice during the same song is even harder!

[SDsalsaguy]

I did this, once (very careful now). The second person who asked was one of the hosts, I knew him well, and I...--he put out his hand and my automatic response was to get up and dance. The first person hadn't even realized I "dissed" him, until I apologized to him! (Still dancing with him a lot). Keep in mind that it's tricky for some of us to refuse a dance to begin with, so doing it twice during the same song is even harder!

You make a good point samba ajr -- that although it is, ideally, something to be avoided, sometimes there's more to the situation then meets the eye, i.e. you really do want to sit the next dance out but then a friend you only see every couple of months says they're leaving but asks you for a last dance, etc.

At the same time, however, if a pattern of this nature develops it really is quite rude. Its one thing if the potential partner just says "no thank you", but if a reason is given, hypocrisy should not then ensue.

[MissAlyssa]

I've come across this a few times..

people standing, drinking a beer on the dance floor at country music clubs. they act like we [the dancers] should say "excuse me" when we bump into them...

:evil:

[dancergal]

Hi everyone, I'm new here. I hope I'm posting this on the right page. Your title "Pet Peeves" caught my eye. I agree with all your pet peeves! Mine also is other couples who bump into you or step on you because they are throwing their parter around wildly and not paying attention while dancing on a crowded floor. As far as not dancing with one person and turning around and dancing with someone else, although it's not polite, sometimes it cannot be helped. I think people need to be less sensitive about it and just try to have fun.

[DanceMentor]

Hi dancergal,

Welcome to the Dance Forums!
One time this couple just kept running into me. At every party, it seemed they would always have a major collision with me. To make matters worse, they kept smiling even after they ran into me. Finally, I had enough and I was red in the face, and said, "Look, you better watch where you are going. This has gone too far!" Then the lady said, "My partner is blind. I would appreciate it if you would be especially careful when you see us nearby." I was astounded and ashamed. Morale of the story: Sometimes is better to learn a little bit about the person before passing judgement.

Another time, there was this guy that kept running into people and he has no excuses. We surprised him in the middle of the dance by wrapping him in packing wrap. Two people ran at him, one on either side. He didn't know what hit him until he was immobilized. That was a little rash, but he was much more careful after that.

[SDsalsaguy]

Welcome to the forums dancergal!

[Phil Owl]

A couple more:

1) Partners who insist on using a deathgrip, makes it impossible to lead and in some cases, just plain HURTS! :shock: A variation is when the partner gets so stiff and rigid (especially in the arms), makingit impossible to lead.

2) Along the lines of what Dance Mentor and Dancergal said, couples or people that pointedly have NO awareness of people around them resulting in multiple collisions and such. Sometimes at Lindy/Swing events, people try dangerous moves that can endanger their partner of others. More and more I've noticed many Swing venues have strict rules against doing aerials and acrobatic moves on the premises.

[dancergal]

Thanks for the welcome! I appreciate it. :) Sometimes the dances we have gone to are so crowded that dancing is not longer fun or safe. Couples fling their arms and legs around like they have all the room in the world. I've gone off the floor limping or tears in my eyes when someone stepped on me or kicked me. Some people have no consideration for others. I am also at a loss what to do when the person I am dancing with makes dancing with him very unconfortable. One man held his hand to almost chest level when doing WCS when it should be more waist level. It made dancing unconfortable, but I didn't know him and didn't know if I should tell him. I saw him dancing all night, so no one else told him either. Then I felt later that I should have said something.

[DanceMentor]

dancergal,

It's doesn't sound like too much fun when there is no room and your partner has an awkward lead. It sounds like you need to find some more advanced dancers, as well as a place that has room to dance. Sometimes packing a lot of people into one place increases the excitement level, but other times it's just plain hot and crowded. :cry:

[dancergal]

Hi dancementor, Actually I have a regular dance partner, but we do dance with others. It really depends on the places that we go for the different level of dancers. Some dances have a good amount of intermediate and advance level dancers, other have more intermediate and beginners. That's the fun of social dancing I guess. We do go to many different dances so crowded isn't always the case. We attend a lot of WCS dance conventions in the Bay Area and although they are fun, at times the dance floor gets very crowded. But I love country two-step and that's the place that gets really crowded. There aren't too many places that do country, so we don't have a lot of choice of where to go. We just leave when it's too unconfortable to dance.

[Roxanne]

It's a question I can't help but ask, it always produces interesting insights and responses.

Mine would be:

1) People with bad hygene, especially when you can tell from a distance (OY!!)

2) People who constantly criticize you, constantly correct you and try to teach you while dancing, a HUGE no-no!! This is very demeaning and belittling.

3) A woman who won't let you lead

4) Snottyand/or disinterested attitudes. The worst one is when someone projects this air of "Im doing you a favor by dancing with you!". Dancing is supposed to be FUN!!

5) At social dances, couples who have complete absolute disregard for others around them (exemplified for instance, by darting in between other couples showing off their competition moves that need a whole empty floor to pull off. That is just pure arrogance!)

6) When someone refuses a dance with you, saying they're sitting it out or just leaving, then seeing them seconds later dancing with someone else, talk about RUDE!!!!!!!! That's a person I would NEVER ask again!

7) Snobbery. It kills me how some folks look down on other types of dances and the people that love them. For instance, I've gotten incredulous looks and expressions from one or two folks because I like EC AND WC Swing. To me, it's all good!

What are yours, from the ridiculous to the sublime?

Hiya Phil

I have definately seen all of the things that bother you. As a teacher, I would have to say some are very disappointing to see happen to say the least. The attitude/snobbery/criticism is definately one of them. Especially when I have a new student at a dance and its towards him. As if confidence wasn't already an issue prior to him taking the first step on a crowded dance floor, then he happens to ask someone that believes they are the "diva of dance" and spends the entire song criticising and "correcting" his dancing.. it makes a very ruff next lesson :( His confidence is shot and it takes weeks to get him back into another dance to try again. I believe people tend to forget that at some point they were in the exact same place and it takes time and practice to get to be a decent dancer.

Many women often complain that there are not enough men to dance with. Yet, at the same time, they don't want to be bothered helping the beginner men get started. They tell them no, do act disinterested while dancing with them, or somehow insult them during their dance. I realize it is more fun to dance with the advanced dancers, but a couple of dances with a beginner guy isn't going to kill anyone. Especially since rarely will anyone be able to dance every dance with an advanced dancer.

[msc]

9 times out of 10, those "divas of dance" just know a whole lot of patterns, but very little in the way of body actions or the isometrics required for strong body tone. Which means they're not really that advanced at all.

[Vince A]

Here is something that I've noticed at the last three events that I've attended . . .
A few of us were kinda of hanging around one specific area of the swing floor. And we had been there for at least four hours. Now, we are all very good dancers in WCS, ECS, NC2S, and Hustle, which is the kind of music they were playing that night. We were having a ball, and at one point, I had had two followers on the floor at the same time in a WCS. No problem!

A hand full of Pro dancers that had competed earlier in the day, arrived at the floor. Some were friendly, some were not . . . some were sober, some were drunker than a sot! I was dancing when 4 of them got on the floor in the middle of a WCS, and began dancing opposite to the slot that everyone else was dancing. After one actual collision and two additional close calls, they had the gall to yell obscentities at us and tell us to "get off the floor." Not wanting to knock the s**t out of him, and recalling that he has been one of my judges in the past, I took my partner and walked off.

Most Pros DO NOT DO THIS! I have just seen more and more of it lately, and not only to me! Too much alcohol? Did they do some "bad" dancing that day and did not win? I do not know.

What causes this???

[d nice]

It's ego, pure and simple. Something that should be left at the door.

Not hard for me, mine is so big no venue could fit it, so I have no choice but to leave it out doors. :lol:

[Vince A]

d nice,
I knew the answer going into asking it. Was curious as to what responses would come back.

I was very pleased by your answer, and I could tell by your words in other posts that you were not one of those! We all have egos, and checking them at the door is "so much the correct thing to do!"

Thanks . . .

[SDsalsaguy]

Vince, I'm curious, do you know what "level" these pros were?

I've begun to notice a pattern whereby the newest of the new know that they don't know anything yet, then they learn a little and think they know everything (as per the old adage of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing), those who actually learn more seem to calm down then....at least until they hit the 2nd tier down from the top. Most top pros actually seem pretty cool from what I can tell and know (especially those at the pinnacle)—they know where they're at, what it takes, have "made it", etc.,...its those trying to break into this strata who seem to have all the swagger and ego in the universe. I don’t know if they feel like they have to act this way to be “seen” as “champions,” or if its an ego defense mechanism whereby their insecurities in their own abilities are overcompensated for, but it’s a fairly consistent structural pattern I’m noticing within the ballroom genre (with exceptions, of course!).

[Vince A]

SDsalsaguy,
No, I'm not sure what level the pros were. However, they were not new pros, as I've seen them around since I began competing in 1994, nor were they young . . . I would say at least 40 years-old, and very near the top!

I too have noticed that some of the newer pros act like they know it all, and most of them do, but are better in one or two or three dances only.

Most pros that I've met are cool, calm, and very decent people. The deserve the swagger and ego . . . they've worked hard to get there. Hell, I hang out with four pros. Thay have attitudes - deservedly, but they ar enot a**holes. SORRY!

I don't know what the underlying reason is for this, but it is being more frequently noticed by me and others. I'm certainly not their competition by any means, even though I could hold my own against them in specific dances.

Although I've let those issues go, I will not attend any of their dances at studios, nor take one of their classes, muchless take a private . . . so maybe I haven't entirely let go???

[SDsalsaguy]

I would say at least 40 years-old, and very near the top! Hmmm, maybe from the set who's near the top, but can't quite make it over that hump, so walk around as if they're G-d's gift to dancing?

Most pros that I've met are cool, calm, and very decent people. Me too.

They deserve the swagger and ego . . . they've worked hard to get there. I've got to say that I disagree with you on this one...I don't think anyone ever has call for such bravado. Is there a certain poise, confidence, and carriage which can, at first blush, be mistaken as ego? Yes, this I can understand--they are experts at a skill--yet this is no call for "swagger." As one interviewee of mine pointed out, it is, after all, only dancing! This is not, of course, to diminish what it means to dance, but the point being made to me was that its not as if these people are performing life saving opperations, ending ethnic conflicts, etc.

Now obviously the top pros want to be able to live their own lives as well, so give off a certain "ego" at times just so that they are not continuously swamped...at this year's Italian Open, for instance, fans were coming up to Bryan and Carmen (the reigning World and Blackpool Latin champions) for autographs as they were standing ready to take the floor. But this type of ego is a situational one that has no place on a social dance floor, no matter the level of the dancer.

Although I've let those issues go, I will not attend any of their dances at studios, nor take one of their classes, much less take a private . . . so maybe I haven't entirely let go???Maybe...or maybe you just realize that its hard to learn from someone you can't respect? Sure, maybe their dancing is respectable--but if they're not? Just a thought....

[Vince A]

walk around as if they're G-d's gift to dancing?

You know, If they were walking down a narrow hallway, I might have moved to the side for them out of respect. But they were social dancing, and were dancing opposite of the slot that we were in, etc.
Drat! I need to let this go!
I've got to say that I disagree with you on this one...I don't think anyone ever has call for such bravado. Is there a certain poise, confidence, and carriage which can, at first blush, be mistaken as ego? Yes, this I can understand--they are experts at a skill--yet this is no call for "swagger."

I hear you. I guess that swagger is uncalled for. I have seen and met many at the very top, and none portrayed it. I guess swagger is like some of the pros/jugdes in the movie, "Strictly Ballroom?" That's as close as I can get to something that is uncalled for!
Now obviously the top pros want to be able to live their own lives as well, so give off a certain "ego" at times just so that they are not continuously swamped

Yes, but anyone that does anything at the pinnacle of whatever they do is in the limelight - all the time - especially at a dance! It comes with the territory, and they know this. And . . . I bet when they first became champions . . they ate it up. Yes?
Sure, maybe their dancing is respectable--but if they're not? Just a thought....

Yes, I can do do something about it . . . I can change my attitiude!

[msc]

Must depend on the dancer. I've met and danced with Heidi Groskreutz, and she was cool. Not much "attitude" at all, and she's a 5 time WCS champ, I think.

SDSalsa-
I agree wholeheartedly with your assessments of ego and the like, although I think that problem is much more evident among the men than the women.

[d nice]

It may be more evident among the men, but it happens just as often, though in a different form, among women. I've been present for some "diva-like" behavior. Scary stuff.

[SDsalsaguy]

Must depend on the dancer. I've met and danced with Heidi Groskreutz, and she was cool. Not much "attitude" at all, and she's a 5 time WCS champ, I think. Yeah, as I've said it doesn't actually seem to be those at the top (or who've been there) who are the problems. In particular it seems to be those who think they should be in this strata and aren't.

Also, and an important caveat here, is that I am using "the top" as a relative term. If someone's frame of reference is only a small, isolated studio, then this dynamic would still be in play relative to the various stratifications within that singular venue.

To my mind these patterns seem to be a structurally systematic so "translate" across both scales and venues.

[Vince A]

msc,

When you go to the "top," you really hit the very top - with Heidi, and of course, Benji Schwimmer. I met them for the first time at World's this past January. I've seen them before . . . competiting . . . but watched them at 5 AM one morning practicing their routine. I tried and tried to also practice with my Pro, but couldn't do it. I 'had' to watch. Needless to say, my chin was on the floor. Such dedication, such hard work. Now THEY are champions . . . at the top . . . and both are very "cool."

[SDsalsaguy]

This isn't only "at dances" but I *HATE* it when people just stand around on the dance floor…especially when its crowded to start with!!! Hello? Its called a dance floor, not a “stand in the dancers' way floor.” Duh.

[pygmalion]

My number one pet peeve: people who don't know how to have fun at a dance. I understand that dancing is serious stuff, and I try to take mine as seriously as I need to -- self discipline, etc. But, from time to time, I think folks just need to lighten up and have fun. If it's not fun, why do it?

Second pet peeve: women who don't take the initiative. I know several women of this sort -- they'll go to a dance and just sit there, waiting for a gentleman to ask them to dance. No way. I go to dances, to dance. If he doesn't ask me, I'm going to ask him. And, if there's NO guy to dance with, I'll lead another woman, or practice my solo steps. I'm just not going to sit down.

Corollary to pet peeve #2 has been mentioned before, but what the heck: women, or men, for that matter, who refuse to dance with inexperienced dancers. At some point, perhaps in the distant past, we've all been there. So share the wealth. Let the newbies see what it feels like to dance with an experienced person. It costs you nothing, except a few minutes of your time, and may encourage them to hang in there. Just remember to tone it down so that you don't blow them away.

[Phil Owl]

This isn't only "at dances" but I *HATE* it when people just stand around on the dance floor…especially when its crowded to start with!!! Hello? Its called a dance floor, not a “stand in the dancers' way floor.” Duh.

One of the most obvious and one I forgot to list myself, D'oh!!!

I can't tell you how many times I've had that happen and it just aggrivates me and whoever I happen to be dancing with! But more so is when these people who are in everone's way shoot these disdainful glares in your direction. Errrrgh!

There should be signs put up, NO PARKING ON THE DANCE FLOOR! :roll:

[MissAlyssa]

lol. At the country bar that we take our students to has all kinds of drunk cowboys "parked" on the dance floor. The worst part about it is that they actually get MAD if someone bumps them and they spill their drink... :roll:

[Phil Owl]

Also have to add a variation of the "DIVA" mentality.

Not long ago, I asked this one woman to dance at an outdoor swing event , she accepted, although I definitely detected this kind of faintly hidden "I'm doing you a favor by dancing with you" attitude. Hate to say it but I was right, the whole time, she seemed really self-absorbed and doings this "HEY, CHECK ME OUT!" sort of stuff, making it difficult to lead at best. Not earth shattering, but still very annoying all the same. Dancing is TEAMWORK, not ego-gratification!

[Phil Owl]

Also have to add (this may have been mentioned on another thread), obnoxious DJ's who:

1) Play the same type of dance forever and ever with little variation :headwall:

2) Have this morbid need to yap constantly, just to hear themselves talk. One such incident took place with this one guy who announced EVERY dance (as if the room was full of idiots, which it wasn't), and as if that wasn't enough, he announces the type of dance at least 3 TIMES during the course of a song!!!! :roll:

[jon]

... obnoxious DJ's who:

1) Play the same type of dance forever and ever with little variation :headwall:

2) Have this morbid need to yap constantly, just to hear themselves talk.

3) Fade between songs instead of letting them end and giving a few seconds to find new partners before the next one starts (unfortunately becoming more common among WCS DJs, perhaps as a consequence of all the hip-hoppy music, which is a different gripe in and of itself).

4) Singing or playing along with the music. It's not karaoke and it's not an open jam session!

[Vince A]

Grrrrr . . . jon, your #4 is the one that gets me the most . . . singing, or, they think they are G-d's gift to comedians!!!

It seems these DJs never shut up or play the "good" music until about an hour before the dance floor closes!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jon]

Grrrrr . . . jon, your #4 is the one that gets me the most . . . singing, or, they think they are G-d's gift to comedians!!!

"I love Frank Sinatra's voice. Frank Sinatra's music is a passion of mine. And you, name of DJ, are no Frank Sinatra!" -- inspired by a certain presidential debate

[Vince A]

I love Frank Sinatra's voice. Frank Sinatra's music is a passion of mine. And you, name of DJ, are no Frank Sinatra!" -- inspired by a certain presidential debate
What a coincidence . . . I have FS's Best of CD in my truck as we speak (type).
What debate??? FDR?

[jon]

What debate??? FDR?

1988 Bentsen-Quayle debate:

Quayle tried to defend his youth by saying JFK was only 43 when he became president.

Bentsen pounced with his unforgettable challenge to a quivering Quayle: "I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. And, Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy."

[Sagitta]

My number one pet peeve: people who don't know how to have fun at a dance. If it's not fun, why do it?

Second pet peeve: women who don't take the initiative.

Corollary to pet peeve #2 has been mentioned before, but what the heck: women, or men, for that matter, who refuse to dance with inexperienced dancers.

I love you for your second pet peeve Jenn!!! And the idea of having fun that goes with it. I didn't want to bring it up as I thought I might be one of the odd few, but since you are a follower and have opened the pandora's box I have my chance to rant a bit.

I am actually going to the monthly Ithaca social dance tonight and this thread got me thinking. I think the main one for me is "women who don't take the initiative". I don't know about others but I love it when someone asks me to dance. They are saying that they want to have some fun with me for the next couple minutes. It's a compliment and I wish more women would do it!! Along with that is the idea of having fun. If you're just sitting for dance after dance I'm not sure how much fun you can have.

I wonder if I should go for the beginner's lesson tonight and see if I can encourage more people to our way of thinking. We'll see if by 8:00 I'm ready after just getting back at home around 6:30 from work...

[DancingMommy]

My biggest pet peeve is peole who are dancing LOD dances but dancing them in a strictly straight line with a curve at the corners. Smooth/Standard patterns zig and zag diagonally sometimes and I'd *love* to actually see this happen.

My experience in Atlanta was that the more avanced dancers (silver+) did do this while the "same level" here in Orlando mostly do not. I'm not sure if it's a regional thing, or what, but it gets kind of hard to manouever and use good floorcraft when you have no place to go but *into* someone.

Another pet peeve is people jamming the dance floor for slow songs and clumping up so that you can't get around them. If you are moving slowly get in the slow lane for pete's sake. If you are going to do fwd fwd side together, move it away from the wall!!!!! Quit hugging the wall!!!! The smaller your stride, the further towards the center you need to be.

For example: Couple A has a long stride - they need more room to move and not bump into people. Couple B has a short stride (maybe beginners, maybe not) - they don't need as much room in the same amount of time as Couple A. Couple A doesn't want to mow down Couple B, so Couple A moves towards the inner lane/center and makes the circle 3 times around in the time it took Couple B to go once around.

Imagine if you will 3 lanes plus the center:
_____________________
/ / / / \ \ \ \
| F | M | S | C | S | M | F |
| A | E | L | E | L | E | A |
| S | D | O |N | O | D | S |
| T | I | W |T | W | I | T |
| | U | |E | | U | |
| L | M | L R |L | M | L |
| A | | A | | A | | A |
| N | | N | | N | | N |
| E | | E | | E | | E |
\___\__\___\__ /__ /__/__/

[jon]

My biggest pet peeve is peole who are dancing LOD dances but dancing them in a strictly straight line with a curve at the corners. Smooth/Standard patterns zig and zag diagonally sometimes and I'd *love* to actually see this happen.

Just remember that if you have to make a choice between preserving your perfect 45 degree angles and not cutting people off, the people behind you would really, really prefer you choose the latter.

This "lane" business is an unrealistic idealization in most contexts, anyway. In reality many rectangular floors don't allow for it, as inside "lanes" vanish at the narrow end of the floor, and many of the dancers at a social dance lack the navigation skills to stay in "lanes" even if they remember what they are. Meanwhile the guidance for non-progressive dancers to stay in the center works just so long as they keep a sharp eye out for the "advanced" progressive dancers sweeping through the center every 10-15 seconds to bypass the slower dancers in the outside "lanes".

[msc]

I agree with Jon, the theory and practice of social dancing are vastly, vastly different. It's weird, though, every now and then you get some insight as to why a particular move might exist. Cutoff on all sides? It's runaround time!

[pygmalion]

It would help if people had at least some small clue of the proper dance lane etiquette, though. Sheesh! When you go to public ballroom dances here, you'l literally have newbies in the outer lane! :shock: What the heck! Aren't their teachers doing anything? These people aren't trying to be difficult. They just don't know.

About dancing in Orlando, DancingMommy, here's my observation. There are a few large studios, which tend toward social dancing. I won't name names, but you can PM me if you want. There is one studio focused on social dance. For the most part, their students are clueless about lane of dance. They know about line of dance, though. There's another studio, which recently opened, and I'm not sure of the quality of instruction there. There's a third studio, which claims to teach competition dancing, and has students with beautiful smiles and even frames, but hideous footwork.

Then there are independent studios/teachers, whose largest student base is in group lessons. Then there are a large number of people who take no lessons at all, and bounce from dance to dance, taking the "free" private lessons beforehand.

It's not surprising you don't see a lot of good floorcraft. *shrug*

[DancingMommy]

I'm with you on this one

It would help if people had at least some small clue of the proper dance lane etiquette, though. Sheesh! When you go to public ballroom dances here, you'l literally have newbies in the outer lane! What the heck!

I know some of the studios of whom you speak. 8) I used to teach at one that is now defunct. Thank God I'm gone from there....... My dancing actually got WORSE rather than better

Just remember that if you have to make a choice between preserving your perfect 45 degree angles and not cutting people off, the people behind you would really, really prefer you choose the latter.

This "lane" business is an unrealistic idealization in most contexts, anyway. In reality many rectangular floors don't allow for it, as inside "lanes" vanish at the narrow end of the floor, and many of the dancers at a social dance lack the navigation skills to stay in "lanes" even if they remember what they are. Meanwhile the guidance for non-progressive dancers to stay in the center works just so long as they keep a sharp eye out for the "advanced" progressive dancers sweeping through the center every 10-15 seconds to bypass the slower dancers in the outside "lanes".

As for this, I understand where you are coming from Jon, but here we have a dance and the floor is HUGE HUGE HUGE - my house could fit in it - and there is hardly room to take a step because the folks who are there (for the most part)

A) dance in clumps
B) have no clue about floorcraft
C) cut other dancers off (see above)

and a few other things I won't rant about.

Not to mention that every time a slow dance is played every yokel takes the floor trying to show off their fancy "gold level" moves without paying attention to who's around them. They slam into everyone and glare at those trying to utilize the floor in the way it was intended as if they were somehow in the wrong for trying to "travel LOD" rather than allow these "stars" to do their "routines".

The thing that really pisses me off about the above is that the dancers who are hogging the floor aren't even COMPETING dancers. YET, their instructors teach them advanced choreography like it was social dance. Bad teachers! :evil:

Hubby and I can't even get through three basic steps without being crowded off the floor by someone flailing their arms and skirts in our faces or doing some "stop in the middle of the lane" picture line. YIPES.

Here's the kicker... For standard dancers, hubby and I are considered SHORT! I'm 5'2" and he barely scrapes 5'6". Most of the other daners on the floor have these tiny strides even though they are a good 6'+. We can "out stride" them, but mostly get run down because they aren't looking around where they are going (as in pay attention to the short people in FRONT of you). Or when they do some kind of backing up thing and the follow doesn't alert her leader that there's someone behind them. I can't tell you how many times we've been mowed down simply because the "tallies" aren't watching where they are going.

That said, I really hate it when young punks who think they are God's gift to rhythm/latin start cutting one off on the floor. Imagine dancing in your spot and suddenly you have some junior who thinks they are hot suddenly jab you in the eye doing a fancy arm styling and then not even bother to say sorry. And then give *you* a nasty look because you wer even 10 feet away from them. RRRRRRR :evil: And then try to retaliate towards you because you caused them to look bad... UGH. Teenagers. </end rant>

Floorcraft is not something that is very much stressed in this neck of the woods although flashy "moves" seem to be the order of the day.

[msc]

Ironically, it's usually the inside lane that's open to run.

I've had the same experience as DM. Best of all, when your working your tail off on floorcraft, inevitably one of the slower couples will back against line of dance, then shoot you a nasty look when you pull up just short, even though you manage to avoid them.

Actually there's one fella around these parts who is very, very bad about running into ladies. He actually backed down line of dance and kicked one of my follows with a ronde motion. Grrr. Whenever I get near him, I always try to get my back between him and the follow. If he wants to hit me, fine ... he'll take more damage than I will, so I can't say I really care.

[SwinginAngel]

My pet peeve is the people who only dance with the people in their group because they don't want to dance down to someone else's level. Everyone has to start somewhere and they were in the same position at one time. If they are just going to dance exclusively with themselves they might as well not even go to the dance.

[pygmalion]

Hi SwinginAngel! Welcome to the forums! :D

[Sagitta]

Welcome to the Dance Forums SwinginAngel!! :) I completely agree with you. I don't know your exact situation, but playing the devils advocate here...sometimes groups form naturally as people are comfortable hanging around with those that they know. I also know quite a few people who find it uncomfortable to ask people for a dance so once they have their group they settle down to those select few.

[SwinginAngel]

Thanks for the welcome pygmalion and sagitta. :D

I know groups form. There is a whole group of people, a community if you will, who attend the dance events regularly. Many of these people make it a point to ask different people to dance. There is a sub-group within the community who only dance with themselves at every event. I am part of my school's swing dance club and when we attend an event we dance with each other and people outside of the club. I am not saying they shouldn't dance with each other at all, just that they should be more inclusive.

[pygmalion]

I agree, SwinginAngel. There's nothing worse than getting dressed and going out to dance, only to be excluded by all the cliques there. Maybe groups form naturally, but somebody in those groups has the business to actively try to include new people. You're right.

[Marvellous]

A couple more:

1) Partners who insist on using a deathgrip, makes it impossible to lead and in some cases, just plain HURTS! :shock: A variation is when the partner gets so stiff and rigid (especially in the arms), makingit impossible to lead.

2) Along the lines of what Dance Mentor and Dancergal said, couples or people that pointedly have NO awareness of people around them resulting in multiple collisions and such. Sometimes at Lindy/Swing events, people try dangerous moves that can endanger their partner of others. More and more I've noticed many Swing venues have strict rules against doing aerials and acrobatic moves on the premises.

Not much to add. I have experienced every peeve listed so far I think. In one way it is good to hear. I live in Tokyo, and had not done much dancing before coming here. I was thinking that the dancers here were especially ignorant, stupid, rude, and selfish, but it seems that these behaviors break cultural barriers. In retrospect, I guess I guy should have know that. Afterall, I suppose there are going to be both good-mannered and bad-mannered people everywhere.

[redhead]

I dance with every (sober) person who asks me. I don't mind beginners at all; I throw in simple things that look good and make them feel better dancers, try to make up for leaders' mistakes and give clues, not directions. What I hate is when some guy asks you to dance, brings you in the middle of the floor and says, "Now you teach me because I don't know how." :evil: I'm not a teacher! I'm not a leader! I can't do even basic step for both of us! At least try to do something - you've seen what other dancers do. Hey, it takes two to tango :doh:

[redhead]

Oh yeah, something funny happened to me a couple of weeks ago. I was at my favorite club, talking to my friends, drinking water, taking a break after 3 hours of salsa-non-stop. One guy I've never seen before walked up to me and said in commanding voice, "my friend is very shy, and he thinks you're the best dancer here, so go there and ask him to dance." I don't mind beginners, but hey, it was just too much for me to handle! I was tired , and he seemed rude too, but I smiled and said that I'll be glad to dance with his friend if he asks me. He made a face, said "nevermind" and walked away. What's up with that?
I guess, my pet peeves are rude and unreasonable people.

[MNswing]

I agree, SwinginAngel. There's nothing worse than getting dressed and going out to dance, only to be excluded by all the cliques there. Maybe groups form naturally, but somebody in those groups has the business to actively try to include new people. You're right.

i could not agree more with this! I drive 75 miles to go dancing and when I get there, there are the "people by the door" (the ones that think they own the place) and there are the "people in the back" (the ones that are open to dancing with everyone and are learning and just really ENJOY it! I've been dancing about 6 months and I've gotten better, so I'm trying to "make my move" to THE door... it's so hard to walk up to someone and actually get the nerve up to ask them to dance when you KNOW they're probably thinking, "who the heck are you?" Luckily, I've been fortunate enough to not get turned down, but it's just so sad that we have to be so intimidated... I guess, if they don't want to dance with me, I probably wouldn't want to dance with them either.

I just don't get what's up with that "I'm better than you are" attitude. We all started as beginners and the only way to truly get better is to dance with those more experienced and better than you are! Give the rookies a chance. I always make it a point to dance with the newbies because I still remember how it felt.

Also... A smile goes a long way.

[SwinginAngel]

That brings up another issue: beginners.

Not all beginners, just the types that don't want to learn or want to dance without learning. For instance, I was trying to help my dad learn how to lead east coast swing and he kept grabbing my fingers while he was turning me which hurt :? . He didn't want to listen to me. He felt that since he was a beginner I was supposed to just go along with whatever he did, which I tried to, to an extent. I tried to explain to him that the follower is a person who you need to have consideration for. He countered that he couldn't think about the turns right now because he was trying to get the footwork down. I told him that if was going to do the turns he needed to do them correctly (especially if he is hurting his partner) so he wouldn't have to relearn how to do it later. It was so frustrating because he didn't want to be taught how to do it by someone who knew how to lead and he didn't want to take suggestions. He just wanted to learn on his own which would be fine except it is a social dance and he didn't know how to connect with the other person. He didn't want to dance with anyone else because he was a beginner but he didn't want to be taught anything at the same time. Next time he comes here I am going to bring him to a dance with a lesson beforehand.

There is also a guy at my school who I've danced with at least ten times. He has been dancing sporadically for a year, but the only thing he does is the basic step. Step, step, rock step. That is all he will do for the whole song every time and to make it worse he doesn't even do it to the music. He does it the same way every time. If someone wants to do anything else they have to backlead it. I did that a couple times but I it was hard because he would be trying to hold a conversation and if I tried to turn he would think I wasn't interested in his conversation or that I was bored. It wasn't that. I just wanted to dance and when I feel the song coursing through my body I just have to do something!

These are not really pet peeves of mine, but they weren't my favorite dance experiences either.

[pygmalion]

Hmm. I don't want to get too far off the topic here, but there are things you can do, especially in ECS, to keep it interesting for you. For example, if he's doing a single swing -- step, step, rock step -- you can do double -- touch step, touch step, rock step. Or you can add in kick-ball-changes. Or you can add in swivels, or sailor shuffles, or arm styling. It doesn't all have to be boring for you.

[cocodrilo]

How about smoking? Most of the latinos at the dance parties I produce/frequent are very heavy smokers! I HATE this! I end up getting a sore throat, stinking like cigarette smoke at the end of the evening and am constantly concerned about getting burned. While at a hip-hop dance club once I was burned on the hand by some guy holding a cigarette just standing on the dance floor. Tobacco & alcohol(or any liquids for that matter) should definitely NOT be allowed on the dance floor.

[pygmalion]

Good one, cocodrilo.

Did I ever tell you about the time I lost my voice for over a week? Allergic reaction to cigarette smoke. Grr. :x

[cocodrilo]

That cigarette burn blistered and left me with a burn mark the size of a pea on the top of my hand. It was real pretty. I heard that there is a club in Hawaii that has "non-smoking salsa nights". It should be worldwide!

[lily]

How about this one - the dancer who spends the whole dance looking for his or her next partner?

There's a guy I often see at the dances I go to who's a dream to dance with. He's an excellent lead and always does really original fun moves with me. But, the problem is that while we're dancing together, he always seems to be looking for the person he will invite next. Either that or he's looking around to see who's watching him dance. He does look and smile at me while we're dancing, but not as much as watching the rest of the dance floor! I've also been on the other end of this - if he sees me looking at him when he's dancing with someone else, he keeps looking over to me and smiling rather than concentrating on his partner.

[cocodrilo]

I would get irked if a guy I was dancing with was scoping out the dance hall while we danced. Sounds like a show-off. If he's good dancer, though, and this doesn't bug you, then just continue to dance with him!

[lily]

I would get irked if a guy I was dancing with was scoping out the dance hall while we danced. Sounds like a show-off. If he's good dancer, though, and this doesn't bug you, then just continue to dance with him!

Good point! I think he probably is a show off but he's so good to dance with that I guess I'll just put up with it!

[Adwiz]

One of my pet peeves is couples who insist on staying in the fast lane near the edge of the floor while doing nothing more than the basic box step in something like Waltz.

Also, couples who practice a different dance than the music that's playing. If you're going to do that, please move to the practice floor. This is especially annoying when they are doing a Quickstep during something like a Cha Cha, flying through the groups of dancers so you never know where you can go for travelling back locks and such. Grrrr.

[tsb]

Hi dancergal,

Welcome to the Dance Forums!
One time this couple just kept running into me. At every party, it seemed they would always have a major collision with me. To make matters worse, they kept smiling even after they ran into me. Finally, I had enough and I was red in the face, and said, "Look, you better watch where you are going. This has gone too far!" Then the lady said, "My partner is blind. I would appreciate it if you would be especially careful when you see us nearby." I was astounded and ashamed. Morale of the story: Sometimes is better to learn a little bit about the person before passing judgement.

i suppose, but i doubt i'd be sympathetic were this person to be behind the wheel of a tractor trailer!


Another time, there was this guy that kept running into people and he has no excuses. We surprised him in the middle of the dance by wrapping him in packing wrap. Two people ran at him, one on either side. He didn't know what hit him until he was immobilized. That was a little rash, but he was much more careful after that.

i'd pay money for a videotape of that event.

there's a guy like that here in my dance circles. the only reason he doesn't hit more people is because we keep our eyes peeled for him. he's gotten better, but four years ago at one new year's eve party he kept running rampant unil i started sounding my party favor every time he headed straight for another couple. the noise kept startling him and he'd stop. eventually, everyone on the floor except figuring out what i was doing & came by to thank me.

you know, as i think more about this blind leader i find myself questioning the propriety of having a blind leader on a dance floor, at least a crowded floor...

[tsb]

I've come across this a few times..

people standing, drinking a beer on the dance floor at country music clubs. they act like we [the dancers] should say "excuse me" when we bump into them...

:evil:

the consumption of alcohol generally decreases the level of courtesy. but if the place serves alcohol, it's first and foremost a bar and if $ is the bottom line, the owners are more likely to accomodate the imbibers than the dancers; $ come from beverage sales.

---------------------------
" I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means "put down." -- Bob Newhart --

[tsb]

I did this, once (very careful now). The second person who asked was one of the hosts, I knew him well, and I...--he put out his hand and my automatic response was to get up and dance. The first person hadn't even realized I "dissed" him, until I apologized to him! (Still dancing with him a lot). Keep in mind that it's tricky for some of us to refuse a dance to begin with, so doing it twice during the same song is even harder!

You make a good point samba ajr -- that although it is, ideally, something to be avoided, sometimes there's more to the situation then meets the eye, i.e. you really do want to sit the next dance out but then a friend you only see every couple of months says they're leaving but asks you for a last dance, etc.

At the same time, however, if a pattern of this nature develops it really is quite rude. Its one thing if the potential partner just says "no thank you", but if a reason is given, hypocrisy should not then ensue.

"sorry, but i just turned down an invitation to dance" is generally sufficient explanation for someone who understands etiquette. but if they retain a quizzical look on their side, you can explain "it would be rude to them to accept a dance with you for this song."

people observe etiquette generally because they don't want to give offense. but it's helpful to remember that some folks just don't care about the consequences. these people are one of the reasons tasers were invented. tasers and electric cattle prods.

[ShyDancer]

How about smoking? Most of the latinos at the dance parties I produce/frequent are very heavy smokers! I HATE this! I end up getting a sore throat, stinking like cigarette smoke at the end of the evening and am constantly concerned about getting burned. While at a hip-hop dance club once I was burned on the hand by some guy holding a cigarette just standing on the dance floor. Tobacco & alcohol(or any liquids for that matter) should definitely NOT be allowed on the dance floor.

I am SO thankful I havent had to experience that! You are not allowed to smoke indoors here in Aus,it is against the law.


I found the inside outside lane topic VERY interesting... I had no idea it existed and I have to say all my group has been rudely breaking this rule for a long time :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: I will certainly be telling them all to move now!

[bordertangoman]

MIss Alyssa . . . "especially if they haven't brushed their teeth yet!!!"

a good host always supplies a dish full of mints

[bordertangoman]

4) Snottyand/or disinterested attitudes. The worst one is when someone projects this air of "Im doing you a favor by dancing with you!". Dancing is supposed to be FUN!!
I prefer places where they are courteous to newcomers and you get a warm welcome, rather than venues where the reaction seems to be"Lawdy-be well hush my mouth, a stranger, well the audacity of some folk, well I'm having no truck with him."
This assumes you are not going for dramatic effect and have not just entered like Clint Eastwood/Zorro/Darcy and women are swooning left right and centre.


When someone refuses a dance with you, saying they're sitting it out or just leaving, then seeing them seconds later dancing with someone else, talk about RUDE!!!!!!!! That's a person I would NEVER ask again!
My ex-girlfriend used to do that to me!!

[SDsalsaguy]

That cigarette burn blistered and left me with a burn mark the size of a pea on the top of my hand. It was real pretty. I heard that there is a club in Hawaii that has "non-smoking salsa nights". It should be worldwide!
Thats one of the great things about California... its illegal!!! :banana:

No smoking in *any* public building, bars and nightclubs included! Go CA! :bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy:

[tsb]

When someone refuses a dance with you, saying they're sitting it out or just leaving, then seeing them seconds later dancing with someone else, talk about RUDE!!!!!!!! That's a person I would NEVER ask again!

My ex-girlfriend used to do that to me!!


before or after you broke up?

[danceguy]

Thats one of the great things about California... its illegal!!!

No smoking in *any* public building, bars and nightclubs included! Go CA!

I must admit that is one of the best things about our state. Here we just have people who stand right by the doors and smoke, leaving a pile of butts around for posterity's sake. We have a "20 foot rule" where I work and for most people its a one or two foot rule. :roll:

I'd say beat em all up, but they'll probably get lung cancer first so no worries there. :wink:

[danceguy]

This one has probably been mentioned, but one of the worst for me is when your partner becomes engrossed in watching another couple dance, and then will stop dancing with you to watch and say "look at them dance, they are so good!" :headwall:

I had a girl do this in class a while ago, and I said to her "if you ever want to get as good as they are, let's stop standing around and get back to praciticing!"

Some people. :roll:

[dragon3085]

In the country clubs here in San Antonio we have a lot of people who wait till the dance floor gets nice and crowded and then decide to start dancing against line of dance during a waltz or two step. I don't care when its early and I have lots of room to sidestep them but once it gets crowded and you can't move it just creates collisions and frustration.

[LindyQuest]

Errr... :x
Last night when I went dancing there were tons of people, which was cool, lots of new people. But for some reason most of them felt the need to stand and gab in the middle of the dance floor. There must have been almost as many people talking on the dance floor as dancing! It was so tough to even try to dance, because you were always running into someone. It was obvious they didn't know any dance floor etiquette, and I thought about asking the DJ to maybe make an announcement for people who weren't dancing to leave the floor, but I didn't. I ended up mostly sitting out for the first hour or so, until some of them left, then I was finally able to dance after that.
Hopefully this doesn't happen again next week... ':headwall:'

[Tasek]

False advertising, has happened a few times to me, events announced as 'Salsa night' should have more then say one salsa played per hour.

[dragon3085]

Drinks on the dance floor. they got no business there. Another thing I see a lot at country clubs.

[Kitty]

This one has probably been mentioned, but one of the worst for me is when your partner becomes engrossed in watching another couple dance, and then will stop dancing with you to watch and say "look at them dance, they are so good!" :headwall:
I had a girl do this in class a while ago, and I said to her "if you ever want to get as good as they are, let's stop standing around and get back to praciticing!"
Some people. :roll:

Dance is about dance. If it is not a practice and some people are doing something interesting - it is fun to watch them. If she notices someone who is interesting to watch - you can do basic for a while, discuss other dancers, talk, laugh, and then dance (really well) the next song.

There is nothing wrong with watching other people dancing, even while dancing, unless it happens every dance, every single song.

Isn't dancing all about having fun with your partner? You are leading her, so that she can dance, inviting her to dance, so that it is fun for her, she is following and flirting with you - so that it is fun for you. So why can't you let her do something she wants for a while?

[Kitty]

Drinks on the dance floor. they got no business there. Another thing I see a lot at country clubs.

Drinks are ok. If you don't want to drink - don't drink. If other people want to drink - it is their own business. Unless they are so drunk that they bump into people and are behaving inappropriately - why not?

If they do behave inappropriately - thats not nice, but it is not nice in any environment, not just on the dancefloor.

Everybody can have fun on dancefloor in any way they like.

[dragon3085]

I disagree. You can put your drink down for one song. Your beer will still love you when you come back. Most place here will send the bouncers after you to remove the drink from you hand. Almost all the country clubs have a railing where you can set you drink down while your dancing.

[SDsalsaguy]

I agree, drinks have *no* business *on* the dance floor! :x

[Kitty]

I didn't mean to drink and dance at the same time, especially if it is not permitted (how could you think I'd defend behavior that is not permitted?). But to drink at a bar and then go dance, if it is allowed - why not? (I personally don't do that, but I don't like people that have all these principles like "I don't drink ever" and then try to impose those principles on everybody else and conclude that everyone who drinks is "evil".

I've seen people drinking and then dancing, but not at the same time - I can't even imagine that. Sorry if I misunderstood what was been talked about.

[SDsalsaguy]

Drinks on the dance floor. they got no business there. Another thing I see a lot at country clubs.
No problems Kitty... I just took this literally. Drinking *on* the floor. And yes, I have seen this!

[danceguy]

Dance is about dance. If it is not a practice and some people are doing something interesting - it is fun to watch them. If she notices someone who is interesting to watch - you can do basic for a while, discuss other dancers, talk, laugh, and then dance (really well) the next song.

There is nothing wrong with watching other people dancing, even while dancing, unless it happens every dance, every single song.

Isn't dancing all about having fun with your partner? You are leading her, so that she can dance, inviting her to dance, so that it is fun for her, she is following and flirting with you - so that it is fun for you. So why can't you let her do something she wants for a while?

Well, we all have our different views on things. I just find it very rude when you are dancing with someone and then in the middle of a song and they stop to watch someone else. That's almost as bad as walking away and leaving you on the dance floor.

People can and should do whatever they want, but anyone who does that to me at a social dance will not be getting asked to dance again by me anytime soon! :?

[dancin_feet]

I generally don't drink much at all when I am out for a night dancing. Usually only water. I don't know about in the US, but I have always been told that it is not a good thing to leave a drink unattended and then come back to it. You don't know what someone may have slipped in it. Doesn't happen that often, but you just never know who is hanging around. The only time I will leave a drink unattended is if a good and trusted friend is staying at the table. Otherwise, I'll generally take a final swig before I get up, then buy another drink when I get back.

With this in mind, I can understand why some people take their drink on the dancefloor with them. Doesn't mean I like it, but you can never be too careful these days.

Not worth the risk.

[JohnK]

I have to agree with Scorpionguy, if one has agreed to dance to begin with, then the agreement should be honored for the duration of the dance. Dance requires at least some concentration. Letting one's attention wander away during a dance is impolite, stopping is downright rude.

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

I totally agree with ScorpionGuy and JohnK. One is supposed to dance "for" their partner. It´s a one-to-one relationship for a 4 minute period. Watching another couple dance is very rude because you are making one or possibly all of the following statements:

- I wish I was dancing with "him" instead of with you
- I´m bored with you
- Does this song ever end?
- I´m doing you a big favour...
- How come you´re not as good as that guy?
- Why do only beginners ask me to dance?
- Can´t wait for the song to end and ask the other guy...

It´s like having dinner with someone who´s not paying attention to you or your conversation. Very annoying and impolite.

If one wants to watch another couple dancing than just sit the dance out. Once on the dancefloor, you should respect your partner even if he or she has 2 left feet.

[Kitty]

I have to agree with Scorpionguy, if one has agreed to dance to begin with, then the agreement should be honored for the duration of the dance. Dance requires at least some concentration. Letting one's attention wander away during a dance is impolite, stopping is downright rude.

Ok, I see where the problem is. I wouldn't stop in the middle of my first dance with a partner who I don't know too well, or with who I don't dance often, but I sometimes do when I'm dancing with my boyfriend (we dance with each other like every other dance) - I know we'll dance again and if I want to watch something (like two guys dancing together, or our coach dancing with someone, or my friend making up unexistent steps:-)) this one time - it is ok. He even leads me into position from which the view is better, and then does some basic steps for a while. We talk about it too. (but the whole watching thing doesn't happen more than like twice in the evening).

[TemptressToo]

Don't you mean "nonexistent?" :lol:

My dancing pet peeves...

...men who insist upon dancing with you although they do not seem to know what deoderant is (or its uses).

...hoardes of teenagers that take up half the dance floor in little clusters just talking (because mom and dad dumped them off here to get them out of the house for the evening).

...men who, may be more experienced dancers and make sure you KNOW that, insist upon doing all sorts of fancy footwork that you cannot follow because it in no way resembles any type of dance you have ever seen. ;)

...women that treat you like pond scum because her husband/fiance/boyfriend asked YOU to dance.

[delamusica]

As a teenager dancing, men much older than my parents whom I've never met who insist on dancing very very close are a big pet peeve of mine. I dance with plenty of older people (there aren't many people here my age who dance!) and don't intend this to be mean to people who are older than me, but please don't get all close and touchy with people less than half your age!

[pygmalion]

Just curious, delamusica. What kinds of dances are these guys asking you for? Latin/rhythm or smooth/standard or other? And would it bother you if guys closer to your age were the ones doing the asking?

Not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand what we're working with, here, so we can formulate a strategy that keeps you from feeling ... uncomfortable. (Guys who get too close gross me out, too.)

[pygmalion]

Just to clarify a little -- it will be a lot easier for you to stay comfortable with Latin/rhythm dances, since, except for bolero, there is technically speaking no body contact. Smooth dances do have body contact, so keeping your distance may be more difficult.

[Suaveson]

I've witnessed all of these pet peeves mentioned in this thread, some I laugh at and some I just step back and shake my head at. The bottom line is some people just don't get it(lack of common sense or respect(self-respect and respect for other around))

A couple tips to avoid some of these situations....

-Go out in groups with friends & family because if all else fails you can still dance with them.

-Keep your eyes open, avoid people who have had too much to drink because they don't realize they might be fat, sweaty, and alcohol reeks from their pores and breathe.

[delamusica]

it doesn't really seem to matter - foxtrot, waltz, and salsa are where i notice it the most - it's easier to keep your own distance in some other dances (like chacha or jive).

it wouldn't bother me really if the guys were closer to my own age - i'm all for some good flirting on the dance floor! :wink: but it's kind of wierd and uncomfortable when the guy flirting with you more closely resembles your grandfather than your boyfriend!

[pygmalion]

Okay. So for the waltz and foxtrot and salsa you have to tell the old guys no nicely. How about,"I can't dance this one, but would you save me a rumba (or cha cha or jive -- something with some distance to it LOL) ?" All with a nice smile. Then sit it out. Don't accept the dance with someone more palatable.

And for the smooth dances and salsa? Not sure yet, but I'm sure that, collectively, we can come up with a strategy that works and keeps you dancing. I'll think about it. do you know any guys closer to your age that you'd like to dance with?

[delamusica]

i've been training at my studio for seven years, so most everyone knows that i can do the dances. and usually this happens when i'm dj-ing the weekend studio practice parties, so it's hard turn down people who come in every week without seeming rude - especially when the everyone but me and one guy are there in couples and everyone else is up dancing! it's not really a terrible problem - just a little pet peeve, and at least i'm getting to dance at all!

[pygmalion]

I wasn't suggesting you pretend you couldn't do the dances. That would be lying. Just that, perhaps, you need a break between dances. Or if you have a couple guys that you don't mind dancing closer to, line them up for the waltzes and foxtrots in advance. Then you can honestly tell the old guys, "Sorry. I promised this dance to so-and-so."

[delamusica]

That's a good suggestion, to line people up ahead of time. Thanks!

[pygmalion]

Anytime. 8)

[lily]

I totally agree that if you refuse an offer from one dancer then it's very rude to accept an offer from a different dancer a few seconds later. But here's a question that occured to me when I was out dancing recently.

A great song came on that I really love dancing too. A man that I have danced with before invited me to dance. The problem is that I really don't enjoy dancing with this particular guy as his lead is so strong and rough he can really hurt me. He always insists on doing the extremely complicated moves that he has just learnt rather than just dancing to the music (he'll slow down and finish the movement or start it all over again and try and teach it to me if I don't dance it properly, completely ignoring the music we are supposed to be dancng to...) But I danced with him because I didn't want to refuse him then accept someone else.

I like the idea of lining someone else up for a dance before hand, but what can I do if I don't have someone already lined up? I suppose I could pretend that I do and make a beeline for another guy on the dance floor! I dance with any level of dancer throughout the evening, but do you think that it's selfish to want to be with someone you know is great and fun to dance with every now and then when a wonderful tune is played?

[tsb]

I totally agree that if you refuse an offer from one dancer then it's very rude to accept an offer from a different dancer a few seconds later. But here's a question that occured to me when I was out dancing recently.

the whole premise of etiquette is to avoid giving offense under the assumption that you wish to avoid giving offense and/or to avoid the consequences from others (beyond that of the person being offended). from my perspective, when the other person has already violated etiquette or refuses to accept a message given graciously, i can condone the violation of etiquette. of course, this can result in greater rudeness on the part of the other person & it varies from situation to situation.


A great song came on that I really love dancing too. A man that I have danced with before invited me to dance. The problem is that I really don't enjoy dancing with this particular guy as his lead is so strong and rough he can really hurt me. He always insists on doing the extremely complicated moves that he has just learnt rather than just dancing to the music (he'll slow down and finish the movement or start it all over again and try and teach it to me if I don't dance it properly, completely ignoring the music we are supposed to be dancng to...) But I danced with him because I didn't want to refuse him then accept someone else.

in this case, i submit that you have every right to express your feelings to him as a reason you prefer not to dance with him. you needn't put yourself in a position to risk physically injury.

IMO you would actually doing him a big favor; he might not realize how his actions detract from the potential enjoyment & he might make a major step towards becoming a leader you'd love to dance with. on the flip side, if he gets offended, the consequences are that he'll not likely ask you to dance again - which you'd prefer anyway.


I like the idea of lining someone else up for a dance before hand, but what can I do if I don't have someone already lined up?

the way i see your choices are:
- accept graciously;
- decline graciously (and i think giving your reason(s) why can fit in this category);
- decline ungraciously;
.
.
.
- laugh, decline ungraciously, make personal comments about his appearance / breath / dancing style / haircut AND ask someone else to dance;

for each case, i suggest that you weigh the pros & cons in terms of what are the best & worst things that can happen & then make a choice that has consequences that you can live with & makes you happiest.



I suppose I could pretend that I do and make a beeline for another guy on the dance floor! I dance with any level of dancer throughout the evening, but do you think that it's selfish to want to be with someone you know is great and fun to dance with every now and then when a wonderful tune is played?

it's certainly a natural desire to maximize one's utility. if not, all economists would be out of a job! but again, part of the equation is how much the consequences of your actions contribute to your overall joy

[Sabor]

pet peeves? ummm.. well there sure are a few .. but i mostly manage to ignore them.. except one.. that is someone (usually more than a few) with a funky smell! i just cant handle that .. if it persists i leave the place :(

[lily]

Thanks for the advice tsb - I think I'll try the declining graciously one! But as you say I may try dancing with him again and simply telling him I don't like revising complicated dance moves all the way through the song and see if he just lets us dance...

[tsb]

Thanks for the advice tsb

pas de quoi! et je m'appelle barry.

I think I'll try the declining graciously one!

honi soit qui mal y pense!

But as you say I may try dancing with him again and simply telling him I don't like revising complicated dance moves all the way through the song and see if he just lets us dance...

sounds like the person in question needs a practice partner. dances are for dancing & practice is for practice. good luck.

[lily]

Salut Barry, comment ca se fait que tu parles francais? :D

Actually I'm English but I've been living in Paris for 13 years!

[Sagitta]

Sometimes we need to learn a second language, and sometimes French just might be chosen. :wink: :) I could undertsand your conversation, but I'm afraid I've probably lost a lot of my French from disuse. :oops: :(

[tsb]

Salut Barry, comment ca se fait que tu parles francais? :D

Actually I'm English but I've been living in Paris for 13 years!

j'ai etudié français aux université, mais j'ai oublié tout! je parle un peu de/d'... (comment dit-on "deutsch" en français? ) et chinois (je suis chinois) aussi.

j'aime paris. j'ai travaillé en provence pour etudier la cuisine. (et j'aime les fromages! et croissants! et baguettes! et le pied de paquet!)

and i have used just about all the french i remember with that! Genug! oops. Assez!

[lily]

Sometimes we need to learn a second language, and sometimes French just might be chosen. :wink: :) I could undertsand your conversation, but I'm afraid I've probably lost a lot of my French from disuse. :oops: :(

It's true that we lose fluency in a foreign language very quickly if we don't use it regularly. Sadly it's not like riding a bike :( I think that when I leave France I'll try and set up a weekly conversation with a French person so that I don't lose too much.

[lily]

Salut Barry, comment ca se fait que tu parles francais? :D

Actually I'm English but I've been living in Paris for 13 years!

j'ai etudié français aux université, mais j'ai oublié tout! je parle un peu de/d'... (comment dit-on "deutsch" en français? ) et chinois (je suis chinois) aussi.

j'aime paris. j'ai travaillé en provence pour etudier la cuisine. (et j'aime les fromages! et croissants! et baguettes! et le pied de paquet!)

and i have used just about all the french i remember with that! Genug! oops. Assez!

Oui, Paris est une tres belle ville. Mais quand il s'agit de manger, je dois dire que je prefere la cuisine italienne :D Ceci dit, c'est vrai que les croissants et les baguettes sont trop bons! (Desolé, je ne vois pas ce que tu veut dire par "le pied de paquet". The packet's foot??? :? )

[tsb]

Salut Barry, comment ca se fait que tu parles francais? :D

Actually I'm English but I've been living in Paris for 13 years!

j'ai etudié français aux université, mais j'ai oublié tout! je parle un peu de/d'... (comment dit-on "deutsch" en français? ) et chinois (je suis chinois) aussi.

j'aime paris. j'ai travaillé en provence pour etudier la cuisine. (et j'aime les fromages! et croissants! et baguettes! et le pied de paquet!)

and i have used just about all the french i remember with that! Genug! oops. Assez!

Oui, Paris est une tres belle ville. Mais quand il s'agit de manger, je dois dire que je prefere la cuisine italienne :D

du nord ou sud? je préfère le(la?) nord...


Ceci dit, c'est vrai que les croissants et les baguettes sont trop bons! (Desolé, je ne vois pas ce que tu veut dire par "le pied de paquet". The packet's foot??? :? )

comment? pardon! "et paquet" yeah. i don't have the french to explain - it's a quirky thing - roasted lamb shank (but next to the hoof), along with stewed stuffed tripe (the packet). i don't think you see it too much outside provence. there a couple of restaurants in paris i really enjoyed: star of the east - i forget the arrondiseement, but near the eiffel tower, one of the few non-french restaurants (chinois) to get a michelin star, and le grand vefour, which i think got 3 stars since i've been there. but generally i was just as happy to snarf down the "chaud chiens" that the street vendors sold, stuffed into a baguette and covered with melted cheese or the premade sandwiches you could get at the supermarkets!. whatever their faults, the french do have a commendable attitude when it comes to food!

we've gotten WAY off-topic. i'm curious, while i was in paris i had absolutely NO luck in finding places to dance. i found a few folk dances in the south (and oddly enough, NOT in avignon! sur le pont d'avignon..." ) what kind of dancing is generally available in paris?

[NeoDevin]

I see this thread has turned into a french thread. After all these years pretending it doesn't exist, it comes back to haunt me! :lol:

[pygmalion]

Ha ha! I'm just glad I was able to read my way through the whole French conversation. :D It's been quite a while, but good old Miss B__, my French teacher, was tops! :D 8)

And so what do we do, if we don't like cheese, or bread, or croissants, or chaud chiens avec fromage and just want to dance in Paris? (pronounced Par ee, of course, LOL) btw, hot dogs in a baguette don't appeal. I prefer my hot dogs in soft, wimpy, American rolls. LOL. But baguettes avec fromage ... I have that at least every two weeks or so ... avec vin rouge. :wink: :D

[Ian]

Hmmm, I wonder which is more difficult to maintain:

Dance prowess or a second language?

[salsachinita]

I am SO sure there is a strong salsa scene in France! I've recently met(separately) two French girls who are fantastic salseras.

My friends have also witnessed awsome salsa dancing in France.....

Eventhough I DID spent sometime living in France (got relatives) & French Polynesia, my French limits to (sort of) reading only :( .......

(Food, however, is quite a different story.......yummmmm)

[NeoDevin]

I'm actually reasonably fluent in french (I took french immersion through to 6th grad), it's just more fun when you're around french people to pretend you don't understand... especially if they don't like you. :twisted:

[tsb]

I'm actually reasonably fluent in french (I took french immersion through to 6th grad), it's just more fun when you're around french people to pretend you don't understand... especially if they don't like you. :twisted:

i do that with chinese folks - they figure i can't speak a lick since i was born & raised in ohio (which is another story in itself). in college i taught a friend a few words in mandarin. he loved in a co-op that was predominantly foreign chinese students. once it was his turn to cook and one of the chinese students asked him if dinner was ready and he responded 'hi mey you' (not yet). they never spoke in chinese around him for the rest of the year. makes me wonder what they were saying around him before!

[danceguy]

Hmm, oddly enough I don't speak any French...but I lived with a French family for several months...and all I heard was French TV, music and language spoken every day. So if I hear it now, my ears tune into it and I can sort of get an idea of what they might be talking about...but I imagine I could learn it quickly.

That's cool Neo...that happens to me with Spanish a lot. I was out with some Salsa folks a while back who were all fluent, and one of them asked me a question and another said "he doesn't speak Spanish!"

After I replied to his question, they kind of gave me a funny look and I imagine they will be a bit more careful from now on. ;)

I hear you on the language skills getting rusty Sagitta...I used to get compliments on my accent in Mandarin all the time...and its quite poor now. I haven't been hanging out with native speakers like I used to...:oops:

[lily]

I would love to be able to speak Mandarin. Or Russian - that's an amazing sounding language I think.

As far as dancing in Paris goes - there are loads of places but they are poorly advertised. The best place to look is on www.danse-a-2.com
It's in French but it has a pop up of every dance event going on during the week. You can choose to look for ballroom, swing, salsa or argentine tango. Salsa is extremely popular here at the moment and it's much easier to find places to go salsa dancing than any other type of dance. Still, for swing dancing there is at least one event every evening of the week to choose from and around 7 or 8 at the weekend :D

If anyone is planning a trip here do let me know - I'd love to meet up!!!

[tsb]

I hear you on the language skills getting rusty Sagitta...I used to get compliments on my accent in Mandarin all the time...and its quite poor now. I haven't been hanging out with native speakers like I used to...:oops:

i learned from someone else's experience not to try and fake it if you're not exactly sure of how to say something. this guy was trying to show off for these two girls at dinner in a chinese restaurant that was primarily mandarin speaking. he spoke cantonese but no mandarin. when he tried to order spare ribs he said 'pee goo' instead of "pie goo". the waiter did a double take and said 'you want what?' and we all broke up laughing.

"pee goo" is gluteus maximus.

[tsb]

I would love to be able to speak Mandarin. Or Russian - that's an amazing sounding language I think.

As far as dancing in Paris goes - there are loads of places but they are poorly advertised. The best place to look is on www.danse-a-2.com
It's in French but it has a pop up of every dance event going on during the week. You can choose to look for ballroom, swing, salsa or argentine tango. Salsa is extremely popular here at the moment and it's much easier to find places to go salsa dancing than any other type of dance. Still, for swing dancing there is at least one event every evening of the week to choose from and around 7 or 8 at the weekend :D

If anyone is planning a trip here do let me know - I'd love to meet up!!!

i wish i'd known. the last time i was in paris was about 4-5 years ago, and none of the hotel staff had any idea of how to find any places for dancing. c'est la vie...

[lily]

I hear you on the language skills getting rusty Sagitta...I used to get compliments on my accent in Mandarin all the time...and its quite poor now. I haven't been hanging out with native speakers like I used to...:oops:

i learned from someone else's experience not to try and fake it if you're not exactly sure of how to say something. this guy was trying to show off for these two girls at dinner in a chinese restaurant that was primarily mandarin speaking. he spoke cantonese but no mandarin. when he tried to order spare ribs he said 'pee goo' instead of "pie goo". the waiter did a double take and said 'you want what?' and we all broke up laughing.

"pee goo" is gluteus maximus.

About 6 years ago when my French was fine but my accent was not, I was invited to lunch at a friend's house. I wanted to help out by putting the knives and forks etc. on the table so I said, "Je mets les couverts?" but I pronounced it wrongly and everyone burst out laughing at my offer to put the 'green butts' on the table :oops:

[pygmalion]

:oops: :lol: :lol:

Mighty tasty, those green butts! LOL! Now that's motivation to work on your accent.

[ShyDancer]

Took me a few minutes to find this thread ...but seek and you shall find as the saying goes!

I have myself a new pet peeve it seems. Tonight in the middle of a Jive, I had my partner (who I had never danced with before) try and teach me a "new move" Firstly How rude right in the middle of a dance, and secondly I know the move he wanted to show me and he insisted that I was doing it wrong :evil: :evil: I dont know the name of the move but basically its a push away and the lady turns, being bronze level I have only been taught to spin once in these turns, but this guy was just so insistant he nearly pushed me over twice :evil: Then he has the nerve to go ask a teacher who was dancing with a partner to "show" me how to do it right!!!!! The teacher of course had a quick chat and told him that there was indeed only ONE spin. ...he turns back to me, trues the move again, and lo and behold it worked with just one spin! Amazing hey!?

I was SO tempted to walk off and leave him standing in the middle of the floor :x :x Grr sometimes my manners get the better of me :lol: :lol:

Thansk for letting me get that out!

[bordertangoman]

Chinese whispers???

How far from the original subject can you get???

[Genesius Redux]

Took me a few minutes to find this thread ...but seek and you shall find as the saying goes!

I have myself a new pet peeve it seems. Tonight in the middle of a Jive, I had my partner (who I had never danced with before) try and teach me a "new move" Firstly How rude right in the middle of a dance, and secondly I know the move he wanted to show me and he insisted that I was doing it wrong :evil: :evil: I dont know the name of the move but basically its a push away and the lady turns, being bronze level I have only been taught to spin once in these turns, but this guy was just so insistant he nearly pushed me over twice :evil: Then he has the nerve to go ask a teacher who was dancing with a partner to "show" me how to do it right!!!!! The teacher of course had a quick chat and told him that there was indeed only ONE spin. ...he turns back to me, trues the move again, and lo and behold it worked with just one spin! Amazing hey!?

I was SO tempted to walk off and leave him standing in the middle of the floor :x :x Grr sometimes my manners get the better of me :lol: :lol:

Thansk for letting me get that out!

Tuck turn maybe?

I was taught to do a tuck turn just by letting my partner push off me, with maybe just a tiny nudge--but that way the lady controls the turn, and won't get pushed off her balance.

Still, it depends on your partner. One of my teachers loved to spin--three, four, six, eight times. And sometimes she'd want the added momentum of a good shove. Every now and then when she got too ridiculous with her incessant spinning, I'd just stand on the dance floor with my hands on my hips waiting for her to finish. Which she thought was totally hysterical.

Telling somebody they're doing something wrong on the dance floor--even if they are--to me is a huge no-no, and I will refuse to dance with a partner who does that.

[TemptressToo]

I have a new one...

good looking men that dance well asking you to dance (new and unusual pet peeve). Don't they know what they do to poor girls like me???? I'm powerless.... (sigh)

[Genesius Redux]

I have a new one...

good looking men that dance well asking you to dance (new and unusual pet peeve). Don't they know what they do to poor girls like me???? I'm powerless.... (sigh)

:friend:

Tell ya what, Beautiful--if we ever run into each other, I'll ask you to dance, and that way you can have fun without ever having to worry about upsurges of passion! :wink: :lol:

[pygmalion]

Ah! But you have a beautiful mind. :wink: 8) :D

[Genesius Redux]

Ah! But you have a beautiful mind. :wink: 8) :D

Seeing as how you're probably quite familiar with the Russell Crowe movie of a couple years ago, I'm not quite sure how to take that! :wink: :lol:

[pygmalion]

LOL. No pun intended. I enjoyed the movie, although I'm not a big Russell Crowe fan.

How about ,"an intriguing mind?" Is that better?

[Genesius Redux]

:kissme: :lol:

[D-spot]

Pet peeves. Dirty, sticky floorsor ones with variable slip factor.
Whhhoooooaaaaaaa, catch!

People who look down on us oldies (very early forties). I started in uni as a 'mature' student. First few weeks the looks I got didn't do my ego much good ('heck, only the old fart left to dance with'.

Those people who turn up at a club for the last hour and close the night and in doing so consider themselves to be the 'in-crowd' whereas those of us who were there from opening of the doors for three/four hours are nobodies.

People who visit the washroom, finish their business and leave without washing their hands.

People who eat a nice greasy pizza, lick their fingers clean then ask a lady to dance.

People who give my favourite dance partners (and close friends) dirty looks purely because they (my partners) look better on the floor
..and then expect me to dance with them.

People who walk out of the washroom with toilet paper on their shoe(okay, that's hilarious rather than a peeve). Favourite version of that one I saw recently. A person I know from a previous studio (big self-important attitude, blonde bimbo) walks out of the washroom with her skirt tucked into her knicks. Venue was having a show that night (Danny Quilliam from Montreal, at Famee in Toronto). She then noticed after several steps. Lots of people saw. My bad, I laughed. Couldn't help it. Not so nice a fellow after all am I.

People who think they own the floor. 'This is my area, you sholdn't be here'.

People who grandstand in a busy club taking up loads of space. Fortunately I am a big fellow so I just dance close by (protecting my partner of course) and don't back down. Inevitably comes the big move and a big bump. They bounce, never fails. Then comes the look and the backing down when they see unnerved I am (bring it on).

People who step on you (with high heels) and don't apologise. Actually had one girl (hefty) apologise several minutes later when the dance had finished and I had had to leave the floor. She originally thought I was faking it.

Men who are obsessed with the ladies upper figure.

Ladies who wear revealing clothes and then complain loudly when your eyes wander a little further than you wanted (rather different to the last comment).

Sleeveless tops for the ladies. Just love that feeling of sweat trickling down my hand. It ain't mine.

...and most of the other ones previously mentioned.

Oh yeah, and dance instructors who take their students files when they have been asked to leave the studio.

Manipulative instructors who don't have their students interests at heart.

Social nights that suddenly stop for an impromptu lesson. Please have it early enough to allow for an individual to choose whether to attend or not and still get a good nights dancing in.

D-spot.
...that's all folks.
For now.
Hasta la vista baby, I may be back.
Oh yeah, I hate long posts like this one.
(English humour rocks).

[pygmalion]

*bump* Here's an oldie but goodie I thought you might enjoy. :D

[Sagitta]

I agree...interesting stuff...

[Fretful_Porpentine]

Ok, here's my new pet peeve:

After dancing with a very high level dancer six or seven times, he STILL tries to lead you through all these ridiculously complicated moves that you obviously never learned.


Seriously, I was so angry at this guy. He's in gold and I'm in bronze (Arthur Murray) and after several dances he was still trying to lead me through silver and gold level material that I'd never been exposed to at all. I felt really bad and incompetent, and he just totally didn't get it! Arrgh! I was so embarassed!

[alemana]

when that has happened to me, i speak up. it's a fairly large error on the part of a lead not to adjust to the follow's level when the disparity is that great.

[alemana]

when that has happened to me, i speak up. it's a fairly large error on the part of a lead not to adjust to the follow's level when the disparity is that great.

[Indiana_Jay]

I get the feeling that a certain Texas DFer is a little board this afternoon, because I keep seeing moldy threads pop up!

[pygmalion]

I get the feeling that a certain Texas DFer is a little board this afternoon, because I keep seeing moldy threads pop up!

Moldy?!? :shock: I resemble that! :lol:

Actually, no, it's not that I have excessive time on my hands. It's a deliberate strategy to get and keep the conversation going, especially now that there's no DWTS to keep everybody occupied. Over the past week-and-a-half, I've been introducing some new threads, and reintroducing some quite old ones -- older, in DF time, than most of our currently active members. I'm suprised anyone noticed. Most of the time, people don't.

It never hurts to get a new slant on an older topic, IMO. Beats all heck out of starting the same topic over, at least for those of us who were here for round one. :lol: :cool:

[Peaches]

...hoardes of teenagers that take up half the dance floor in little clusters just talking (because mom and dad dumped them off here to get them out of the house for the evening).


I'm glad someone mentioned this. I had thought about it, but was wary...

I'll say up front that I don't really like kids. That's my bias, that I admit. But this one dance I went to, I don't think it was just me.

Before the social there is a Teens class, so there are lots of kids there. During the main pre-social group lesson, they were talking and running around to the point where I couldn't hear the instructor. During the dance they were running across the floor, darting between dancers, and generally being a nuisance. I mean, if I wanted to watch mating rituatals at the mall, I'd head to the nearest food court, ya know?

But, to be fair, I place more blame on the organizers of the dance for not requiring adult supervision/chaperoning--this is not baby-sitting. And on the parents, if they were around, for not making sure their children knew how to behave appropriately.

[fascination]

#2 is definately my pet peeve..I take 8 10 hours of privates a week...I dont need more at a party....and gentlemen, a lead is not a wrestling move....

[pygmalion]

#2 is definately my pet peeve..I take 8 10 hours of privates a week...I dont need more at a party

Guys/gals who "teach" on the dance floor need to be shot, IMO. :lol:

[pygmalion]

Before the social there is a Teens class, so there are lots of kids there. During the main pre-social group lesson, they were talking and running around to the point where I couldn't hear the instructor. During the dance they were running across the floor, darting between dancers, and generally being a nuisance. I mean, if I wanted to watch mating rituatals at the mall, I'd head to the nearest food court, ya know?

A couple I know used to bring their ten-year-old son to dance class and to the practice parties with them. No problem, until he hit puberty, but stayed relatively short in stature. Do you have any idea what it's like to dance (badly) in body contact with a twelve-year-old, hormone-infested, teenaged boy whose eyes come up to your ... bustline? *gag* (Sorry, if there are young guys in the house. Really sorry. :? )

I guess I should be glad he was dancing. :?

[DWise1]

....and gentlemen, a lead is not a wrestling move....

Tell that to my x! She'd even fight the teacher's lead. We ended up calling her "Daphne".

I've had follows who insisted on turning in the exact opposite direction I was leading (and, yes, my lead was very definite). I've also had follows who refuse to hold any kind of frame, but rather collapse in towards me, making it impossible to lead them.

--------------------------------
Joe E. Brown as millionaire playboy and Jack Lemmon as "Daphne" tangoing the night away in Some Like It Hot:
Joe: "Daphne."
Jack: "Hmm?"
Joe: "You're leading again."
Jack: "Oh, I'm sorry."

--------------------------------
My comment in a recent shadow Charleston class: "Finally, we guys get to back-lead!"

[Fretful_Porpentine]

In our (by which I mean teenagers') defense, we're not SO bad...at least when we're by ourselves. In packs I imagine we're a little bit more annoying. Frankly, I'm just jealous that you guys have real live ballroom-dancing teenagers where you live. I'd kill for a partner my age....

[pygmalion]

In our (by which I mean teenagers') defense, we're not SO bad...at least when we're by ourselves.

Look. I was a teenager. I remember what it was like to be a teenager. I have nieces who are teenagers. I've had a Little Sister who was a teenager. I've tutored teenagers and mentored teenagers. Plus a whole lot more.

No need to defend yourself. I'm on your side. :cool:

Teenagers aren't children. Not at all. :cool:

[alemana]

there is a trend at salsa socials of bringing in youth performing groups to perform. last one i was at, the show started at 12:30 AM. until that time - which is far too late for a 12-yr-old to be up anyway - they were all running around bored on the dance floor, crunked up on soda, getting in everyone's way and making a hell of a spectacle. annoying.

[musicchica86]

In our (by which I mean teenagers') defense, we're not SO bad...at least when we're by ourselves. In packs I imagine we're a little bit more annoying. Frankly, I'm just jealous that you guys have real live ballroom-dancing teenagers where you live. I'd kill for a partner my age....
Amen. I like to think I'm intelligent and mature. And kids who do the stuff you're describing annoy the bejeezus outta me...:mad:

[DennisBeach]

I have heard this comment about not needing lessons from people. Many of them have some concoction they do to every type of music. They defintely need lessons, particularily if they are going to dance with ladies who know the dances.

[letsfly]

It's a question I can't help but ask, it always produces interesting insights and responses.

2) People who constantly criticize you, constantly correct you and try to teach you while dancing, a HUGE no-no!! This is very demeaning and belittling.

What are yours, from the ridiculous to the sublime?

Yeah, this is an important one. Once I met a gorgeous hunk who was interested in dancing with me and I thanked my lucky stars, but after dancing with him I always felt depressed. Even though I totaly understood he was the type who would constantly correct me and was prepared to make it work anyway, subconciously I felt really berated.

Often I find a great looking partner who insists on correcting me even though I know I am not the (only) problem but I put up with it because good men are scarce. But getting depressed from dancing was something that I could not afford to let happen so I broke it off. (Enough other things in life to get depressed about!!)

He once told me that no woman wanted to dance with him and that he didn't understand why ... !!!! I found this perplexing because he was totally HOT, but after a while I could see that no woman wants to dance with a man who corrects her for two hours straight every practice!

I probably would do him a favour by telling him of his unpleasant habit but I don't see him any more. I don't know why some guys get like this .. why can't they accept that they are not always right. Even when the see their partner dance the step effortlessly with their teacher they blame the partner for not being able to do the step properly with them.

I've had several partners with egos that I felt I had to protect as if I was walking on eggshells ... THIS IS MY WORST PET PEEVE .. THE PARTNER WHO NEEDS TO BE ALWAYS RIGHT

[Flat Shoes]

My pet peeve, people who get easily annoyed or irritated by things who doesn't really matter! ;)

Well, there is one in the first post that gets to me too:

4) Snottyand/or disinterested attitudes. The worst one is when someone projects this air of "Im doing you a favor by dancing with you!". Dancing is supposed to be FUN!!


Just be rude and say NO right away. It's no more rude than not even trying to have fun on the floor. And it saves time.

[Shooshoo]

A couple I know used to bring their ten-year-old son to dance class and to the practice parties with them. No problem, until he hit puberty, but stayed relatively short in stature. Do you have any idea what it's like to dance (badly) in body contact with a twelve-year-old, hormone-infested, teenaged boy whose eyes come up to your ... bustline? *gag* (Sorry, if there are young guys in the house. Really sorry. :? )

I guess I should be glad he was dancing. :?

:)..this is funny, the way you tell it, pygmalion. Can't help laughing.

[Twilight_Elena]

Hah. I just intimidate young people with my scorching gaze. Most of them adress me in plural! (Greek is like French at that: when you talk to someon eolder or respected you adress him in plural. Always felt funny that English has no such plural.)

Twilight Elena

[wooh]

Someone once brought their little boy to a dance. He would dart across the dance floor, always fun to watch during quicksteps!!

[Sagitta]

A couple I know used to bring their ten-year-old son to dance class and to the practice parties with them. No problem, until he hit puberty, but stayed relatively short in stature. Do you have any idea what it's like to dance (badly) in body contact with a twelve-year-old, hormone-infested, teenaged boy whose eyes come up to your ... bustline? *gag* (Sorry, if there are young guys in the house. Really sorry. :? )

I guess I should be glad he was dancing. :?

Poor guy. At that age to be tormented by such things at eye level. maybe you could have worn higher heels? ;-)

[Twilight_Elena]

Poor guy. At that age to be tormented by such things at eye level. maybe you could have worn higher heels? ;-)

LOL!

Twilight Elena

[fascination]

okay I am back fresh...or freshly injured from a party so I think I can speak to this now....guys who know lots of fancy steps and are determined to use them but have horrible frame so have no way of leadng them(and don't particularly care if you are following or not b/c it IS all about them) ...and when you can't follow them they get annoyed b/c you aren't their pro who can only follow them because she taught them....one guy last night tried to do 3 viennese crosses in a row in tango with me...and decided to do them at a tempo that doesnt even exist as an option...i.e light speed...and I have seen him practice it this way alone as well....and he created no space for me...well the end result was me on the floor with a bruised hip...I hope I was gracious and laughed it off and immediately got up and tried to find a way to do it again that would accomodate his vision of what he thought he was trying to do...and I certainly didnt point fingers....but it'll be a long while before I tango with him again....

[DWise1]

Hah. I just intimidate young people with my scorching gaze. Most of them adress me in plural! (Greek is like French at that: when you talk to someon eolder or respected you adress him in plural. Always felt funny that English has no such plural.)

Twilight Elena

What makes you think that we don't?
Second person singular: you
Second person plural: you

Verb conjugations for second person, singular and plural forms also identical to each other.

And note also how English monarchs would refer to themselves as "we".

So in English, it is very important to use the familiar and polite forms of "you" properly and above all you must never use the wrong form.

[grin]

But seriously, I believe that in older forms of English you would find different forms for familiar and polite. Also note that while several European languages use the plural form for the polite, German as a distinct form along with familiar forms in both singular and plural and Spanish also has a different familiar plural form (vosotros) though many countries don't use it.


Keep scorchin' them.

[pygmalion]

LOL. In one culture I know about, you don't use plurals to address elders. It's hard to describe, but you use a different tone of voice and a slower pace of speech. The exact same words sounds totally different, depending on whether you're talking to a child or an elder, for example. It's called using high-level language (with an elder) versus using low-level language (with a child or peer.) Very weird, coming from the perspective of a disrespectful American. :lol:

@fascination:

I totally agree. You know the ones that get me the most? The guys who want to "try out" the patterns they just learned in group class, but are somehow convinced that they learned the patterns, but you didn't. So they spend the practice party giving you verbal directions. Uhh... hello! For whom is this supposed to be fun? :?

Actually, I don't really mind guys who admit that they are still learning and are not quite sure how to lead this or that. No problem. I'm learning too. It's the know-it-all, bossy guys that make me go :headwall:

[fascination]

exactly i figure we are all there to have fun and/or practice...I never lord what I happen to know over another dancer, even when sorely tempted as in above noted moments...parties are times for people to be good to and with each other...I danced last night with a young guy who clearly has some developmental issues...he sort of wanders around and gets ignored...he sort of generically stands up and says will someone plz dance with me...so he and I tangoed last night...and he led haltingly and to his own very slow tempo...but he led and he was courteous...and when I had trouble he asked " oh I'm sorry are you new?" and I just said yes...and I would dance with him again in a heartbeat...I bleieve it may have been one of the most graceful dances I have had....nuff said

[Twilight_Elena]

Pet peeves... Hmm. Let's be OT for a change. :lol:
What sort of bugs me is when crappy leads try to do weird stuff and if, after 3 failed tries, I finally understand what they're failing to lead and do it myself, they smile encouragingly and go "Well done!" I'm, like, :headwall:. "Dude, I'm almost a teacher", I wanna say! But I don't.

Twilight Elena

[Sagitta]

Pet peeves... Hmm. Let's be OT for a change. :lol:
What sort of bugs me is when crappy leads try to do weird stuff and if, after 3 failed tries, I finally understand what they're failing to lead and do it myself, they smile encouragingly and go "Well done!" I'm, like, :headwall:. "Dude, I'm almost a teacher", I wanna say! But I don't.

Twilight ElenaBut you ain't one yet!:p

[fascination]

Pet peeves... Hmm. Let's be OT for a change. :lol:
What sort of bugs me is when crappy leads try to do weird stuff and if, after 3 failed tries, I finally understand what they're failing to lead and do it myself, they smile encouragingly and go "Well done!" I'm, like, :headwall:. "Dude, I'm almost a teacher", I wanna say! But I don't.

Twilight Elenacept being a teacher is not a given for being a good dancer...really depends upon how desperate the studio owners are...not speaking of you TE...but I am tellin' ya...well nevermind:rolleyes:

[Twilight_Elena]

I never use the "teacher in training" card, EVER. Nor do I think I'm some sort of really cool dancer that's better than all the rest. But I do know they're doing it all wrong. What peeves me is the way they say it, as if they've got the move down perfectly and poor old X follow is not good enough.
Oh, and for the record my franchise has got some pretty mediocre teachers in many franchise studios, but my teacher prides on me being better than those already. :D
Okay now, [/boasting]! What's wrong with me? :shock:

Twilight Elena

[Fretful_Porpentine]

cept being a teacher is not a given for being a good dancer...really depends upon how desperate the studio owners are

Ok, question about this sort of thing. I'm sort of in transition between two studios, and I'm still finishing up my contract at the old one so I take advantage of the free group lessons there from time to time. Except, the deal is that the group lessons are taught by a very new instructor who went through one of those two-month training programs and, frankly, is a kind of bad dancer and teacher. She's really nice but has actually taught steps completely wrong. Even things as simple as the underarm turn in swing. So what do I do? Do I just go ahead and follow the newbie guys who are leading the step wrong? Do I back-lead and do the step right, but not follow their lead? Do I try to explain to them how the step is ACTUALLY supposed to work, even though I'm not qualified and don't know how to lead? Do I tell the teacher she's wrong? Do I just do nothing at all?

I mean, technically, the problem will be over in a couple weeks when my contract is over and I can switch permanently to the new studio, so it's really not a big deal. I'm just wondering.

[fascination]

just me...it would re-affirm my decision to leave the studio...and I wouldn't bother...but if it was at the studio I was going to be at...if the groups were part of what I pay for...ie...if you by private you get free groups...and if there weren't sufficinet other groups and teachers from which I could get enough satisfactory groups experience I WOULD complain to the owners.b/c it is a breach of their responsibility IMO...and they can always stepp in themselves until they get enough teachers up to speed....at our stdio ther are teachers whose groups I do to and teachers whose groups I don't go to for these reasons...and some whose groups on certain dances are fine but not others....i have rearely found it wise or worth my time to try to correct an instructor or advis a fellow student that an instructor is doing something wrong....i think it best to take it to the owner....

[cornutt]

But seriously, I believe that in older forms of English you would find different forms for familiar and polite.

"Thee" and "thou", I believe, were the familiar forms in English. And it wasn't all that long ago... they didn't really disappear until the 19th century (and of course we still use Bible translations that use them).

Of course, in the South, we have our own version of the second person plural... "y'all".

[wooh]

She's really nice but has actually taught steps completely wrong. Even things as simple as the underarm turn in swing.

Is she teaching them "wrong" or is she teaching them "differently"??? There's few hard and fast rules in dance. And since teaching beginners often means teaching them something one way, then moving up to the "right" way, I don't know how quick I would be to say she's teaching them "wrong."

[Twilight_Elena]

Is she teaching them "wrong" or is she teaching them "differently"??? There's few hard and fast rules in dance. And since teaching beginners often means teaching them something one way, then moving up to the "right" way, I don't know how quick I would be to say she's teaching them "wrong."

Yeah, good point. But I'm inclined to believe F_P, since there are many franchise teachers like that out there.

Twilight Elena

[Fretful_Porpentine]

No, I'm quite sure she was teaching it incorrectly. Unless, of course, I and everyone else that I've ever danced swing with learned it wrong. Unlikely.

[saludas]

So what do I do? Do I just go ahead and follow the newbie guys who are leading the step wrong? Do I back-lead and do the step right, but not follow their lead? Do I try to explain to them how the step is ACTUALLY supposed to work, even though I'm not qualified and don't know how to lead? Do I tell the teacher she's wrong? Do I just do nothing at all?

I mean, technically, the problem will be over in a couple weeks when my contract is over and I can switch permanently to the new studio, so it's really not a big deal. I'm just wondering.

Back away from the studio that charges people to work with a 'teacher' that the sutdio is purporting to be knowledgeable.

Start questioning your previous coaching sessions... it is very likely that your coaches from this franchise are all 'cut from the same cloth'...

No contract is worth anything if the teaching is bad. Use the time left to practice.

[Fretful_Porpentine]

Actually, my instructor is pretty qualified. He's been competing for over a decade, and even though he isn't a national champion or anything, he's done pretty well. He has also had proper instructor training. That being said, I'm no expert and it's quite possible that you're right. I'm switching studios (and styles) no matter what, so I guess it's a moot point now.

[saludas]

Actually, my instructor is pretty qualified. He's been competing for over a decade, and even though he isn't a national champion or anything, he's done pretty well. He has also had proper instructor training. That being said, I'm no expert and it's quite possible that you're right. I'm switching studios (and styles) no matter what, so I guess it's a moot point now.

I'm sure he is a good dancer etc etc, but perhaps he also has issues like the group teacher - just warning you to be aware. Many folks 'love' their teacher for things not related to the information - most common in this forum is liking the teacher because they have 'fun' at their lessons, or that the teacher 'feels good' to them. However, these qualities have nothing to do with the dance instruction you are getting.

The best thing to do when looking for the qualifications of a techer include asking others who are knowledgeable - higher level students, and also the detractors of the studio and teacher. Throw out the 'he's so easy to get along with' kinds of comments and ask around about successful couples that have taken with him - their thoughts would be very helpful.

[lynn]

Ok, question about this sort of thing. I'm sort of in transition between two studios, and I'm still finishing up my contract at the old one so I take advantage of the free group lessons there from time to time. Except, the deal is that the group lessons are taught by a very new instructor who went through one of those two-month training programs and, frankly, is a kind of bad dancer and teacher. She's really nice but has actually taught steps completely wrong. Even things as simple as the underarm turn in swing. So what do I do? Do I just go ahead and follow the newbie guys who are leading the step wrong? Do I back-lead and do the step right, but not follow their lead? Do I try to explain to them how the step is ACTUALLY supposed to work, even though I'm not qualified and don't know how to lead? Do I tell the teacher she's wrong? Do I just do nothing at all?

I mean, technically, the problem will be over in a couple weeks when my contract is over and I can switch permanently to the new studio, so it's really not a big deal. I'm just wondering.

Hey, FP,

Here's my take, if I were you, I'd just leave and not say anything. The dance community is so small you don't want to risk ruining your relationship with anyone (esp the teachers). Teachers generally don't want to be corrected by students (doesn't matter how "new" they are), and you risk insulting them eventhough you mean well.

There are, however, times that they're not teaching the students "wrong", but really just not showing them "enough" for them to be doing the right thing - it could be a sales/teaching technique or it could genuinely be that the new teacher doesn't know how to teach. I found this out the hard way. When I first started, I was taking classes at 2 different studios, one teaches International and the other American. My International teacher teaches a lot of technique and my American teacher doesn't. At first, I'd always thought that my American teacher is wrong or doesn't know enough but I gradually found out it's not that he's "wrong" but he's simply breaking down everything in baby steps and adding on as I progress. Yes, it takes way longer in terms of the learning/teaching curve but it just goes to show that my assumption that my American teacher doesn't know a thing is wrong. And as a total newbie I couldn't distinguish the difference (still can't, i' afraid ;) )! My point is just that if I had outright tried to correct him, I could've very well insulted him right there on the spot! Sometimes we see it from the learning and not the teaching perspective and we jump to the conclusion right away if we don't see 2 teachers teaching the same thing (or same style). Of course, there are those who don't know what they're doing, but unless you know for sure that your current instructor is the latter, I would really suggest you to *exercise caution* :D !

Good luck!

[Shooshoo]

I just hate it when I'm dancing with a guy and he's looking around, to see whether others are watching. I want ALL the attention when I'm dancing. It's only a couple of minutes.

[pygmalion]

I just hate it when I'm dancing with a guy and he's looking around, to see whether others are watching.


What!?! How rude of him. Ego. Grr.

[Shooshoo]

What!?! How rude of him. Ego. Grr.

I find it that many guys (don't notice it between the women) need some sort of re-assurance from others that they can dance well. And they start to do stuff to show off. It makes the dancing experience less pleasurable.

[fascination]

yep...specially since he's supposed to be lookin round to make sure he doesnt run you into someone...are you sure that isnt what hes doing?

[fascination]

I find it that many guys (don't notice it between the women) need some sort of re-assurance from others that they can dance well. And they start to do stuff to show off. It makes the dancing experience less pleasurable.not to mention dangerous

[Shooshoo]

yep...specially since he's supposed to be lookin round to make sure he doesnt run you into someone...are you sure that isnt what hes doing?

yeah, it happens at times I find myslef bumping into other couples cause my leader has been watching over me.

What about a guy dancing with you and checking out other girls while dancing.

[fascination]

havent had that yet...that I know of

[pygmalion]

yep...specially since he's supposed to be lookin round to make sure he doesnt run you into someone...are you sure that isnt what hes doing?

Shooshoo -- you do salsa, right? Not sure why I assumed that. :?

But, if that's the case, f, running her into someone is a lot less of a concern than it would be in the standard that you dance. Salsa moves, yeah, but not line of dance around the floor. But you're right. You do have to watch out not to bump into someone or encroach on someone's space. And that's supposed to be the lead's concern.

[pygmalion]

What about a guy dancing with you and checking out other girls while dancing.

Yikes!! Where do you find these rude guys? :evil:

[fascination]

i see gotcha

[Shooshoo]

Yes, salsa and latin ballroom (socially).

Like if I'm doing a fan alemana and then the guy wants to show off his move and I find myself almost crashing into the wall, THAT I don't enjoy.

[bordertangoman]

I find it that many guys (don't notice it between the women) need some sort of re-assurance from others that they can dance well. And they start to do stuff to show off. It makes the dancing experience less pleasurable.


Ay there's the rub... but other people telling you that you dance well is not enough in that the gratification felt, if any, is short lived. Better to dance badly but be happy with it.

[Shooshoo]

Yikes!! Where do you find these rude guys? :evil:

Don't think they mean to be rude. Most of them are like 10 years younger so I have no problem them checking other girls out, but not while we're dancing. They can wait a bit, can't they?

[Sabor]

Yikes!! Where do you find these rude guys? :evil:


hey.. i'm right here http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/spezial/Fool/bis.gif

[Shooshoo]

Most of them are like 10 years younger so I have no problem them checking other girls out,

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/spezial/Fool/bis.gifhey.. i'm right here http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/spezial/Fool/bis.gifhttp://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/spezial/Fool/bis.gif


http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/spezial/Fool/ma.gif

[pygmalion]

Don't think they mean to be rude. Most of them are like 10 years younger so I have no problem them checking other girls out, but not while we're dancing. They can wait a bit, can't they?

Whether they mean to be rude or not, I still find their behavior a bit inconsiderate of your feelings.

[lynn]

Definately, if they asked you to dance, then their attention should focus on you for the entire dance. It's like having a conversation with someone only to find that their attention is on something else.

[SPratt74]

I didn't have anything to post here until after last night. I had one newbie grab my arm really hard while trying to show me a new move at one of our parties (mind you I'm a light weight, so it really hurt). I could tell he was getting frustrated with me since I couldn't pick up on his advanced moves. Parties aren't supposed to be a place to show new moves from what I've been told (well, to a point that is). Then he kept telling me to watch people that I know are better than me. I slowly got away from him, because he became really annoying. I told him that I was new, but he still acted like a jerk I thought. He's not an instructor or anything, so I don't get why he was acting like a big shot. I'm not too sure what to do about the guy, but I think that I have every right to reject dances from him in the future after being treated like that, but I feel bad because I don't want to say no to anyone if I can help it. Does that sound mean?

[waltzgirl]

Also have to add (this may have been mentioned on another thread), obnoxious DJ's who:

1) Play the same type of dance forever and ever with little variation :headwall:

2) Have this morbid need to yap constantly, just to hear themselves talk. One such incident took place with this one guy who announced EVERY dance (as if the room was full of idiots, which it wasn't), and as if that wasn't enough, he announces the type of dance at least 3 TIMES during the course of a song!!!! :roll:

3) Count out the rhythm of the first few measures of the music ("1-2-3" or "Slow-quick-quick"). At a venue with almost no beginning dancers present!

[waltzgirl]

I didn't have anything to post here until after last night. I had one newbie grab my arm really hard while trying to show me a new move at one of our parties (mind you I'm a light weight, so it really hurt). I could tell he was getting frustrated with me since I couldn't pick up on his advanced moves. Parties aren't supposed to be a place to show new moves from what I've been told (well, to a point that is). Then he kept telling me to watch people that I know are better than me. I slowly got away from him, because he became really annoying. I told him that I was new, but he still acted like a jerk I thought. He's not an instructor or anything, so I don't get why he was acting like a big shot. I'm not too sure what to do about the guy, but I think that I have every right to reject dances from him in the future after being treated like that, but I feel bad because I don't want to say no to anyone if I can help it. Does that sound mean?

Absolutely not! You have every right to decline a dance with someone who has hurt you (or, IMO, been obnoxious). If you want to be polite to him, sit out the rest of the song rather than accept a dance with someone else. But, frankly, I don't think you even need to do that.

[delamusica]

Leads who:
a) Point in the direction they want me to go with one had while leading with the other. Um, hello? I know which way to go in an underarm turn, thankyouverymuch. I'd like to think that after 9 years of competing and social dancing that I don't dance like I need that much help.

b) Feel the need to yank me around by the arm when doing an underarm turn. OUCH! I'm going already!

That's actually what prompted my salsa hiatus of a few months - my arms and back were always sooooo sore the next day from getting jerked around. Now when I go out, I mostly only dance with a handful of guys. I may look like a snob, but I'm just so tired of getting thrown around on the floor!

[fascination]

I didn't have anything to post here until after last night. I had one newbie grab my arm really hard while trying to show me a new move at one of our parties (mind you I'm a light weight, so it really hurt). I could tell he was getting frustrated with me since I couldn't pick up on his advanced moves. Parties aren't supposed to be a place to show new moves from what I've been told (well, to a point that is). Then he kept telling me to watch people that I know are better than me. I slowly got away from him, because he became really annoying. I told him that I was new, but he still acted like a jerk I thought. He's not an instructor or anything, so I don't get why he was acting like a big shot. I'm not too sure what to do about the guy, but I think that I have every right to reject dances from him in the future after being treated like that, but I feel bad because I don't want to say no to anyone if I can help it. Does that sound mean?I never refuse a gentleman a dance...he is no gentleman

[fascination]

Leads who:
a) Point in the direction they want me to go with one had while leading with the other. Um, hello? I know which way to go in an underarm turn, thankyouverymuch. I'd like to think that after 9 years of competing and social dancing that I don't dance like I need that much help.

b) Feel the need to yank me around by the arm when doing an underarm turn. OUCH! I'm going already!

That's actually what prompted my salsa hiatus of a few months - my arms and back were always sooooo sore the next day from getting jerked around. Now when I go out, I mostly only dance with a handful of guys. I may look like a snob, but I'm just so tired of getting thrown around on the floor!i think lots of guys are used to women who cannot or will not move themselves...once you can it gets frustrating to dance with men who wont let you or think they are helping you...I still go to practice parties, but not with the expectation of enjoying them as much...only with the expectation of practicing what I can with whomever....and what I can practice is always something , but not neccessarily what I would like

[RIdancer82]

i think lots of guys are used to women who cannot or will not move themselves...

I think you're right on that one... sometimes if I get to a social early and there aren't enough leaders taking the lesson, I'll jump in and help out in leading. One time that I did this, I actually had a woman very forcefully tell me that I didn't know how to lead properly since I didn't actually push her in the direction she had to go. Then she told me that since I'm not a guy, I probably shouldn't be leading.

I decided that it would be best for me to bite my tongue instead of giving her instructions on how to follow as well as a piece of my mind. It wasn't easy though...

[fascination]

I am certain that this is why many smart pros duck out of these things whenever possible....

[Shooshoo]

Whether they mean to be rude or not, I still find their behavior a bit inconsiderate of your feelings.

I don't take it personal, but this can make me less interested to dance and I just want the dance to be over quickly. If it's someone I know, I usually tell them.

[Shooshoo]

It's like having a conversation with someone only to find that their attention is on something else.

I hate that too.

[SPratt74]

Absolutely not! You have every right to decline a dance with someone who has hurt you (or, IMO, been obnoxious). If you want to be polite to him, sit out the rest of the song rather than accept a dance with someone else. But, frankly, I don't think you even need to do that.

Thank you! That's what someone else said too, but I wasn't too sure if that was proper etiquette or not that type of thing since I'm still learning myself! It still frustrates me though, and I think I'm going to tell the owner, because this guy might be doing this to other women too. He just needs to learn proper ballroom manners I think that his instructor can teach him during their lessons. ;)

[SPratt74]

I never refuse a gentleman a dance...he is no gentleman

That is a really great point! I didn't think of that! Thanks! ;)

[wooh]

I never refuse a gentleman a dance...he is no gentleman
^^Perfectly stated!!

[cornutt]

i think lots of guys are used to women who cannot or will not move themselves...

I know of one lady that I can't dance with, because I can't bring myself to muscle up on her to the point where she can actually perceive a lead. Her and her husband were taught by an, er, forceful instructor. I've danced with that instructor, and it's like dancing with the Tasmanian Devil. :shock:

[fascination]

my pro will just drop his arms if I try that bit...and that is why I am so grateful that we have such an open smooth waltz routine and that he is moving me to silver so soon..b/c he moves...and if I dont i'm gonna be way behind....of course he wouldnt do that at a comp...but he doesnt spare me at practice so that we wont have to worry about it at a comp...

once he said.....I have never had a lady make it to here by this point in the routine...well by golly you can bet the ranch that I was gonna be the first...

but yes, that is why I do social dancing...not to force othr men into leading with an iron arms, but rather to see if I can pay attention to what a more subtle , less familiar gentleman is trying to do

[fascination]

^^Perfectly stated!!for me that is the real defining factor of ballroom...and I thought it was hokey when I started...but my pro would never walk onto or off the floor without offering me his arm...and at group he insists that that is how the gentlemen pass us off to each other...and I think part of the reason for that is that it sets a tone for the treatment during the dance as well...and that is why I just find the behavior you described to be an affront to the whole concept...and I wouldn't feel the least bit rude in refusing the guy...and if he asked I would welcome the chance to explain it...but generally that type wouldn't:rolleyes:

[Sabor]

some examples:

smelly hair or BO
Zits, especially on the back and/or shoulders
moustache trace
hairy armpit
expecting the move instead of following lead
backleaders
if she is uglier than me
conversationalists in dance
medusa hairstyle

[SPratt74]

some examples:
if she is uglier than me


Hmmm... I'm hoping that was a joke, because that's pretty harsh don't you think?

Anyhow, another pet peeve of mine is when a guy knows that you are annoyed with him, but still keeps acting like a jerk like what happened to me again tonight with the same person that I talked about earlier in this thread! All I did was to keep quiet when I was made to dance with him. (This was a group lesson by the way, so I had no choice.) Oh I was so mad, but thank goodness they changed songs and partners. I noticed that he did that with everyone else too, because I kept an eye on him. It wouldn't be so bad, but he is such a jerk! And the instructor kept telling him that we were only doing basics not anything fancy.

It's to bad I couldn't swear up a storm right now, but I can't really, because I did have fun the rest of the time though! Oh and I talked to the owner about him like what you guys said, and he told me to avoid him. I just didn't pay attention to him and glared at him the whole time we danced tonight. I mean is this guy dense or what? How could he not know that I was about ready to make sure that he couldn't reproduce, because we sure as heck don't need two of him running around! ;)

But again... I did have fun the rest of the night though lol! ;)

[Sabor]

Hmmm... I'm hoping that was a joke, because that's pretty harsh don't you think?

yeah.. harsh on me.. lol

it was just sarcasm, since no woman can be 'uglier' than me.. eh

[Ron Obvious]

What makes you think that we don't?
Second person singular: you
Second person plural: you

Verb conjugations for second person, singular and plural forms also identical to each other.

But seriously, I believe that in older forms of English you would find different forms for familiar and polite. Also note that while several European languages use the plural form for the polite, German as a distinct form along with familiar forms in both singular and plural and Spanish also has a different familiar plural form (vosotros) though many countries don't use it.

Precisely. As also Cornut pointed out, English doesn't lack such plural forms that express formality, rather it lacks singular forms expressing familiarity. So, in effect, english speakers are actually being formal or polite with everyone. And adopting the french polite forms is the reason that the informal thou/thee have become obsolete.

The following article in Wikipedia describes the formal forms used in some indo-european languages:

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You

English and Dutch are similar in that both lost their old second person singular forms (those relating to the word "thou"), due to the use of the second person plural form as singular formal, with the plural ultimately replacing the singular totally as the informal forms came to be viewed as impolite. Ironically, this did not happen in French, the inventor of the formal plural; it has kept the system intact. Vous is still used as formal and plural, while tu is used for informal singular. Russian uses the French system also; vy (вы) is formal/plural and ty (ты) is informal singular. This probably resulted from the Russian aristocracy's use of French in Czarist Russia, and was likely strengthened by the T/V similarity in the French and Russian pronouns. This kind of system is also found in other languages, like Finnish and Swedish.

While English, Dutch, French and Russian use or have used the plural forms as the polite forms, other European languages use forms deriving from the third person. German, for example, uses the third person plural pronoun sie, capitalized Sie, as its formal pronoun (in other words, Sie literally means They). Danish and Norwegian languages similarly use De. Italian has separate forms for singular (Lei) and plural (Loro), which are derived from the Italian words for she and they respectively; a partial similarity to the German system (especially since the German word for she is also sie, but conjugates differently from Sie). However, sometimes the French system is also used in Italy, using the plural pronoun voi as singular.

Spanish and Portuguese use actual words which take third-person forms, and each has singular and plural forms. For Spanish, it is usted (pl. ustedes), and for Portuguese, você (pl. vocês). As in English, they seem to be supplanting the original second-person pronouns, which are now informal. The original Spanish second-person plural pronoun, vosotros, is now used only in Spain. Portuguese is farther along in losing them; the plural pronoun vós is gone totally in Brazil and used sporadically in Portugal, while the singular tu is dying out in Brazil, used sporadically in the southern region and certain rural parts of the country.

[SPratt74]

yeah.. harsh on me.. lol

it was just sarcasm, since no woman can be 'uglier' than me.. eh

Haha! Sorry about that lol. I wasn't too sure, but you never know over the Internet! Thanks for clarifying that for me. By the way, is that you in your avatar? ;)

[Sabor]

yep.. good thing its small and far .. keeps my ugliness from shining through :)

[SPratt74]

yep.. good thing its small and far .. keeps my ugliness from shining through :)

Lol! Actually I was going to say, if you are the guy in that picture (don't know for sure which one you are lol), then you are gorgeous. It's funny because the guy in the picture acts like my dance instructor by the way that he moves. Interesting. The girl in that picture is beautiful too, and I love that dress. How fun! Sorry, but I can't tell from your profile if you are male or female, but the way that the guy looked resembled a lot like my dance instructor, so that could be why I was drawn to your picture, and that's a good thing. ;)

[Sabor]

i'm the dude in the pic.. hola

i hope not many posters think i'm a she.. lol

wow.. u can tell a dancer's motion style from a still pic?? .. interesting

[Shooshoo]

but I can't tell from your profile if you are male or female,

comon..think like a woman?! bwaahahaaa, yeah sure.. why not


http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/fragend/confused-smiley-009.gif

[Shooshoo]

but the way that the guy looked resembled a lot like my dance instructor, so that could be why I was drawn to your picture, and that's a good thing. ;)

This picture reminds of John Travolta in Saturday Day Night Fever.

[ballroomblueeyes]

"That said, I really hate it when young punks who think they are God's gift to rhythm/latin start cutting one off on the floor. Imagine dancing in your spot and suddenly you have some junior who thinks they are hot suddenly jab you in the eye doing a fancy arm styling and then not even bother to say sorry. And then give *you* a nasty look because you wer even 10 feet away from them. RRRRRRR :evil: And then try to retaliate towards you because you caused them to look bad... UGH. Teenagers. </end rant>"

ok so i know what your talking about here...what i hate most about junior dancers like that is that it make it soooooooooooo much harder for other junior dancers(like myself) to be taken seriousely in the dance world!

ps. not all of us are like that

[PasoDancer]

Politics. "Oh, you went THERE? Hmmf *sniff*- WE don't because forty years ago this and that happened, and their mama, too. No, it doesn't concern you in the least, but you know, loyalty, after all, you ARE paying US to teach you... "

Cliques. You on one side, the entire studio on the other (With the exception of our wonderful friends we've made- hey, we have enough for our OWN clique now! LOL)

Non-Teachers.... Teaching. At a social. Not a workshop, not a lesson, a party. "Ma'am, would you like to (insert dance you've never done in your life)?"

"Oh... I'd like to, but I don't know how- EEEEEK" you're out on the floor, fumbling, walking, standing, looking, head-scratching while this sixty-year-old is having an epileptic vertical seizure around you, and you have three minutes of agony. Then, they hand you back, and go talk about you to their friends.

People who bitch about live bands OR recorded music. "Hmmf- this isn't dance-able. That isn't either. Neither is that."... Ok, have you considered that maybe YOU SUCK AT DANCING so badly that you can't adapt? If you want to gripe about everything (there are several exceptions- our local Rocky Creek, for example- the drummer should be fired.... out of a cannon....). I mean yes, some bands, some music, etc. plain SUCKS, but dancing is only as fun as you make it.

Other couples bitching on the floor. "No, it's like this- Well, NO, if YOU'd just do THIS...." we bump into them on accident.

Old hillbillies two-stepping at the speed of nothing on a FAST floor, contra-LOD.

Line dancers who gang up, wade out into a floor of partnered dancers, and start line-dancing- amidst partners, and gradually work everyone off the floor. These we Kool-Aid until they get the message.

The genius who brings tuna, garlic, or something else not suited for hand nor breath to a social.

People who stand in the middle of a crowded DANCE Floor to TALK... just so they can "be seen".

Country music (this one's obviously very personal, but... yes. Country Music. Period.)

Showboaters. The kind who show no regard for LOD, other people, or anything, and just do anything they want so that they get praise from wide-eyed newbies. Then act as if it's expected.

Leads who say "Yeah, it's been awhile since I took my last Gold Syllabus Waltz".... when they never actually have. They're just saying that, kind of like "I was hunting wolverines in Alaska with my uncle." (what did you use?)"A freakin' twelve-gauge, Gosh!" Then you such because they're all over your feet.

The fact that I didn't start dancing twenty years ago when I wanted to!

[fascination]

hmm...its been a while since I thought about this...but I'm going to say:

I don't care for men who ask me to dance and then try to teach me throughout, especially when they aren't good dancers...and act as if every missed follow was about a lapse on my part..."hello spagetti arm, just b/c your pro taught you that and knows what it means, doesn't mean I should"...or, "sorry when my pro and I chasse it covers at least 8 feet of ground...how the helck was I supposed to recognize that one when I didn't even feel a lead to promenade?"....normally these sort of errors are no big deal to me...but it really chaps me when someone ASKS me to dance and then assumes each error is my fault...now if I ask some guy who is really good and I fumble around, I am always apologetic and more than happy to ask for a pointer or two...but if YOU ask ME and you dont hear me asking for pointers or taking the blame, kindly spare me the tutoral or the look of shock that I didn't follow your perfect lead....

I also do not care for foxtrot mixers at all...

and would like to see more bolero, tango, waltz, and vw at parties and infinately less swing and hustle...

I think that's enough peevishness for now

[Swingolder]

Dancers who practice their acrobatics on a crowded dance floor.

Or worse yet, it's these dancers who come to the summer outdoor concerts and get up and dance with all the aerials and there are small kids around having fun "dancing" too. Someone could really get hurt.

[hello]

Girls who wear shoes wear slip ons, or other inappropriate shoes; you know they are not there to dance.
Guys who shamelessly stare.
Older men hitting on women their grandchild's age.
Guys who refuse to take no for an answer.
But the worst is......ATTITUDE! bad attitude that is. That "I'm better than everyone" look. Honestly, yes a lot of times these people are all that. They "earned" the right to be "above" everyone else-amazing dancer, good looking, popular, etc., but it's such a huge turn off, respect goes right down the tube. Humbleness is such a beautiful thing, it looks good on everyone!

[DennisBeach]

[QUOTE=
and would like to see more bolero, tango, waltz, and vw at parties and infinately less swing and hustle...

I think that's enough peevishness for now[/QUOTE]

You need to go north a bit <g>. Milwaukee area ballroom dancing has a good share of waltz, tango, Bolero and VW. Very few hustles and not to much swing. They do love their Waltz and Foxtrot mixers, so that part would be bad. Mixers are up to 40% of the dance time in some cases.

[PasoDancer]

...cutting one off? I must admit, I have a different definition of that phrase- and THAT is a bad thing to do on the dance floor, too!

[fascination]

You need to go north a bit <g>. Milwaukee area ballroom dancing has a good share of waltz, tango, Bolero and VW. Very few hustles and not to much swing. They do love their Waltz and Foxtrot mixers, so that part would be bad. Mixers are up to 40% of the dance time in some cases.well I could tolerate a wlatz mixer just fine and I positively LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOve milwaukee...

[vcolfari]

People who "smush" their bodies into yours at the beginning of the dance and resist attempts to maintain a little more distance during a social dance.

Followers who lead themselves into underarm turns, etc., because they want to turn more.

Questions like "So how long have you been dancing?" and "Do you come here often?" Please save those for after the dance.

Demands of "Wait, wait, wait! Let's do that again!" for patterns that weren't followed or led correctly or for patterns that the follower particularly enjoyed.

Leaders who stop in the middle of a dance floor to discuss how a figure should be performed properly.

Stinky cologne/perfume, sweaty armpits, clothes need to be washed, onion breath.

Followers who stare at their feet.

Followers who look in your eyes (during Standard or Smooth) and get offended that you aren't doing the same.

Tiny steps.

Questions like "Have you seen Strictly Ballroom? I LOVE that movie!!!"

[fascination]

I will occasionally ask a guy who leads a fancy step poorly and is exasperated that I couldn't follow it to show me the step again so that I can humor him in the future by allowing him to think he actually led it...

[fascination]

btw...that is my biggest pet peeve...guys (who dance mostly with their pro who knows what she them and therefore can follow whatever they lead) who then expect me to know-- even though their arms have no relationship to their center whatsoever--what the he-- they were leading and who then blame me for the problem...look, its a social...I'm not blaming you, don't blame me...this really honks me off b/c I always apologize for errors and never point fingers but there are alot of male dancers who fancy themselves as infallible, IME

[Peaches]

Definitely have got to agree with you, F. Dear lord, that ticks me off. Yeah, I know I'm not a great dancer. BUT, I damn well know that sometimes, it's not my fault. And keep your damn mouth shut about it. Next time, just don't ask me and we'll both be fine with it. But, oy...

Other pet peeve...being manhandled by a leader. I will follow, dammit. Do not force me. If you have to force me to get me to follow what you're trying to lead, you probably need to 1)re-evaluate your leading ability, or 2)realize that I'm not advanced enough to follow those steps, so please make it more basic. Now and again, I don't mind a stronger lead (say, from my teacher) to do something new...but all the time...no way. I hate hate hate being forced.

Sorry...manhandling leaders on brain after Saturday night. One freakin' leader--who SUCKED, I'll say it--manhandled me through a waltz. it was a slow waltz, for the love of god, and yet he went tearing through it at vw speed, and dragged me along with him. If we actually hit a beat with a step it was sheer coincidence. Good lord. Not to mention, he was dipping all over the place. Not the place, and it looked like a lot of girls were not so happy. I know I wasn't.

[fascination]

well, I don't like being manhandled but I can pardon it as good intent...and I appreciate that alot of women require... uh, greater prompting, however wrongly led it may be... I won't want to dance w/that guy but I can take that alot sooner than being asked over and over again to dance by some fellow whose skills are not beyond my own but who repeatedly feels the need to give me a tutoral in spite of the fact that I am standing there sweetly wishing to G_d that I could just give HIM a lesson on frame...okay...end of hissy

[Peaches]

Ok. Fair enough, point taken.

But for the love of god please find the beat!!!

[NURDRMS]

What I really hate are men that announce what they are going to lead before they lead it..."Now I'm going to do an underarm turn." Kinda like making love and hearing, "okay, now I'm going to nibble on your neck." Just lead the step, already!

[wooh]

being asked over and over again to dance by some fellow whose skills are not beyond my own but who repeatedly feels the need to give me a tutoral in spite of the fact that I am standing there sweetly wishing to G_d that I could just give HIM a lesson on frame

There have been so many times when I've wanted to say, "Listen, if we're going to stop for lesson time...":rolleyes:

[SuzieQ]

Kind of a good-natured pet peeve: when I'm expecting a really great dance with someone and it turns into a "pretend to dance while we chat" situation.

[mamboqueen]

sweat...too much sweat...where I'm slipping out of their grasp. blech.

[samina]

sweat...too much sweat...where I'm slipping out of their grasp. blech.

lol... a couple weeks ago i went to a latin social... one guy i've danced with several times previously asked me to dance toward the end of the evening and he says, "oh, yeah... you're the one that sweats so much... by the time i get to you you're all wet." poor guy. by comparison, he didn't have a drop on him.

i smelled sweeter, tho.:rolleyes:

[mamboqueen]

lol... a couple weeks ago i went to a latin social... one guy i've danced with several times previously asked me to dance toward the end of the evening and he says, "oh, yeah... you're the one that sweats so much... by the time i get to you you're all wet." poor guy. by comparison, he didn't have a drop on him.

i smelled sweeter, tho.:rolleyes:


Geez, I can't imagine actually summoning the nerve to say that to someone - I just grin and bear it. But, maybe you're on to something....I just get him early in the night and run when I see the sweater approaching later in the night. I can somewhat deal with the shirt being sweaty, but the hands completely wet *oy* ...

[fascination]

Ok. Fair enough, point taken.

But for the love of god please find the beat!!!isn't THAT a trip...I find that a cool challenge...like singing take me out to the ballgame in 7/8 time

[fascination]

sweat...too much sweat...where I'm slipping out of their grasp. blech.
cannot find this an issue...I am the sweatiest chick on the block

[fascination]

thank goodness pro is a sweater

[fascination]

and ya know...someone else's sweat, as long as it is clean, has never even been a factor for me

[mamboqueen]

and ya know...sopmeone else's sweat as long as it is clean has never even been a factor for me

Well, I won't go any further than to say that there's a time and a place for sweat. Actually, two come to mind.

[fascination]

the two are mostly the same as far as I am concerned and you know which one I would pick over the other...and I like a sweaty man

[samina]

but the hands completely wet *oy* ...

ew... lol

i usually have an extra shirt to change into... that night, i had one that has two layers and it didn't feel wet on the outside. i guess i was wrong. but people also have different tolerance for dancing with people who sweat... this guy is clearly very sensitive. i know i'm not generally repulsive...
but give me a break... it was nearly midnight. :rolleyes:

[fascination]

after this weekend I KNOW i need two shirts...one samba and I am soaked

[mamboqueen]

you guys need to get shirts that say "don't jive with me". *LOL*