Afro-Cuban Dance?

[naturallove]

Let me just start out by saying that I don't have much experience with it, but I LOVE it! I took a class from Gordon Neil at the DC Congress that was just great (albeit too short!) and have really been wanting to learn more. My sals instructor taught a great Afro-Cuban Shine yesterday and played guaguanco on the drums and played music for us to dance to. My body just loves it--it feels so natural and adds so much to your dancing to be able to interpret the music with it. (Okay, enough gushing!)
Anyway, I was wondering about other resources to learn Afro-Cuban dance. Can anyone recommend DVDs (I don't have a working VCR) or books? I wish there was a class nearby for me to take, but although NC has a pretty good salsa scene and great intstructors--we don't have classes here for Afro-Cuban dance. Information on the origins and connotations is also much appreciated.

[africana]

I have some boogalu videos, and a DVD Rumbon Tropical. They show performances of guaguanco, yambu, colombia, abakua, and a couple of orishas (Elegua/ochosi). Boogalu has several videos they sell online
The other video material I own are from workshops I've been to like the annual Afro-cuban festival in miami, and rumba parties in havana. It's wonderful stuff! And I always feel like I have much more to learn, particularly understanding and differentiating the drumming patterns between the dances

It adds a whole other dimension to my salsa

[naturallove]

I have some boogalu videos, and a DVD Rumbon Tropical. They show performances of guaguanco, yambu, colombia, abakua, and a couple of orishas (Elegua/ochosi). Boogalu has several videos they sell online
The other video material I own are from workshops I've been to like the annual Afro-cuban festival in miami, and rumba parties in havana. It's wonderful stuff! And I always feel like I have much more to learn, particularly understanding and differentiating the drumming patterns between the dances

It adds a whole other dimension to my salsa

Africana-
Thanks for the response. Are any of these videos instructional?

[africana]

Africana-
Thanks for the response. Are any of these videos instructional?
I think boogalu has instructional videos, I'm not sure (google search?). The videos I bought aren't instructional, but they're reasonably priced. I remember that the IFE ILE teachers were selling orisha vids, but I didn't buy them as I was on information overload at the time ;)
Also cds of afro-cuban rumba & folkloric music are helpful for practicing. I found some good ones at descarga.com

[fallenangel]

It adds a whole other dimension to my salsa

Definatly! it helps in all angels of your dancing.
Better groove, isolation, rhythm, expression, and don't forget helps to lose a few pounds hehe!
Keep up the good works guys, i know i will :P
If there's any new technics or moves do share with everyone and how it has help u in your dancing.

[salsaForfun]

Let me just start out by saying that I don't have much experience with it, but I LOVE it! I took a class from Gordon Neil at the DC Congress that was just great (albeit too short!) and have really been wanting to learn more. My sals instructor taught a great Afro-Cuban Shine yesterday and played guaguanco on the drums and played music for us to dance to. My body just loves it--it feels so natural and adds so much to your dancing to be able to interpret the music with it. (Okay, enough gushing!)
Anyway, I was wondering about other resources to learn Afro-Cuban dance. Can anyone recommend DVDs (I don't have a working VCR) or books? I wish there was a class nearby for me to take, but although NC has a pretty good salsa scene and great intstructors--we don't have classes here for Afro-Cuban dance. Information on the origins and connotations is also much appreciated.

Let me tell you the 2 instructional dvd i have on Rumba and Guaguanco:

I have a 2 dvd set (Yambu and Guaguanco) from Jose Alfredo Carrion (http://www.cubanfolkloricdance.com). It gives you a lot of moves.

There is also a Rumba DVD from tropical Gem from Italy (www.tropicalgem.it).

The other one i don't know the content is:
Yoruba Andabo - Rumba En La Habana DVD

[naturallove]

Let me tell you the 2 instructional dvd i have on Rumba and Guaguanco:

I have a 2 dvd set (Yambu and Guaguanco) from Jose Alfredo Carrion (http://www.cubanfolkloricdance.com). It gives you a lot of moves.

There is also a Rumba DVD from tropical Gem from Italy (www.tropicalgem.it) (http://www.tropicalgem.it)).

The other one i don't know the content is:
Yoruba Andabo - Rumba En La Habana DVD
I appreciate the links. I tried the Italian website but had a bit of trouble finding what I wanted. I think I want to go ahead and purchase the Jose Carrion video. I really shouldn't, given that I'm leaving for Zurich in two weeks but I must have it! I really must!

[KiwiMambo]

I also did Gordon's workshop in DC. That was an Afro Cuban class tailored for Salsa dancers. If you liked that then you will probably like Frankie Martinez video "Exploring the Afro-Latin Funk". It is interviews (those alone are worth listening to) and body isolation drills which then move into African Dance moves. This is all done to the rhythm of the music. There is no verbal instruction; you just follow along like in the class he teaches in New York. Let me tell you, it is great. I am doing the routine 3 times per week and after 1 month I am feeling a lot more fluid in the upper body.

Here are a few more videos I have:

Guaguanco by Neri Torres. Pretty good video. Instruction is tailored more for the female. Available at http://www.ife-ile.org/store.htm.

African Healing Dance by Wyoma. Learn 6 African Dances. This is an excellent video. You can get this on amazon.com for cheap. Money well spent!

I too wanted to study Afro Cuban dance and looked around. There were two Cuban instructors in San Diego. Tried a few of their classes but they didn't say anything. You just had to follow them run up and down the floor jumping and waving your hands and feet. I can't learn that way so I gave up.

One year later I decided to search for "African Dance" and found a few instructors. One of them happened to be just starting a class geared for beginners. Tues class is a complete break down, explanation and practice with her humming the beat. Then Sat is her class with the live drums where you can really let loose. What it is going to do for me is improve my body isolations, fluidity and get me feeling and dancing to the rhythm of the music. I absolutely suck at it right now but I know if I stick to it I can’t help but improve. I really wish Salsa instructors would teach footwork and patterns to the rhythm of the music instead of numbers. Numbers server their purpose as a reference point but I believe instructors count too much.

http://boogalu.com/ also has some good Afro-Cuban videos with demos available for download. I haven’t purchased any yet, but some of them look really good.

[KiwiMambo]

I forgot to mention, here are two Afro-Cuban CDs I have that I like a lot (available on amazon.com):

Rumba Pa'l Pueblo - Various Artists
Top Percussion - Tito Puente

Here is a book on my wish list but haven't purchased yet (available on amazon.com):

Caribbean Dance from Abakua to Zouk: How Movement Shapes Identity by Susanna Sloat

[africana]

Just ordered Nerri's video, thanks for the recommendation :)
She's a wonderful teacher, and I highly recommend her workshops as well

I love taking African dance classes, and there are so many different types, rhythms, movements, folklores to learn and integrate that it can be difficult to pin things down sometimes, but the benefits are massive (as you guys said, gaining musicality, expanding movement vocabulary, etc).
To reduce the complexity I like to just focus on learning one thing per class (or series of classes) and then use [the heck out of] it until I have mastered it. Then go back for more ;) It's hard for me to pick up everything at once too, but those classes are usually very fun

[naturallove]

I used to take classes regularly when I was in undergrad, and took a few here and there during my first couple of years in graduate school. There's a class about 5 minutes away from me, but I don't think my knees and back will appreciate the pounding on a concrete floor covered by tile....:( There are so many different dance styles even within each country within Africa--impossible to learn them all! The company that I used to take dance classes with sponsors the annual Florida African Dance Festival each year in Tallahassee. It was great the year that I went. I didn't like the African Healing Dance DVD very much, but that's just me. Another video that I found helps with movement is Vanessa Isaac's Brazilian Dance DVD. I enjoy doing it from time to time.

[africana]

this must be the material you gus are raving about :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKJCWW0XTrw

it's similar to the TG videos

[aimerrouge]

.... The company that I used to take dance classes with sponsors the annual Florida African Dance Festival each year in Tallahassee. It was great the year that I went. I didn't like the African Healing Dance DVD very much, but that's just me. Another video that I found helps with movement is Vanessa Isaac's Brazilian Dance DVD. I enjoy doing it from time to time.

Could you provide the company or website about the African Dance Festival please?

[naturallove]

this must be the material you gus are raving about :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKJCWW0XTrw

it's similar to the TG videos

Africana-actually, the material he went over was quite different from what I recall. I'm hoping he teaches again at the Atlanta conference..maybe he does something different every time?

aimerrouge, here is the website (although this year's festival is over):
http://www.fadf.org/.
You can also email Jevelle and Marcus Robinson (co-directors) @acdt93@aol.com. Maybe I'll see you there next year!

[africana]

Africana-actually, the material he went over was quite different from what I recall. I'm hoping he teaches again at the Atlanta conference..maybe he does something different every time?
Here's another one from the (same?) 2006 chicago congress

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Y_VDso7mg

it's very jazz/modern-ish


here's another nice fusion performance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr-UhB6mt9E)(has rumba/orisha + salsa styling)

[Mtal]

I have a video from Tropical Gem on Rumba (I am really into that, a little more than afro cuban). I really like it. I have taken there workshops also at Congresses, there really good.

Oh, try Utube. I was looking at some rumba videos last night. There were some actually from Cuba. It was really cool.

[squirrel]

Actually I was pretty dissapointed with the workshop Tropical Gem held on Rumba.

They just taught some moves without explaining anything. The thing they said was "Do as I do"... this is not teaching...

[sweavo]

Actually I was pretty dissapointed with the workshop Tropical Gem held on Rumba.

They just taught some moves without explaining anything. The thing they said was "Do as I do"... this is not teaching...

I went to a class like that by TG ... I think they would speak more to an Italian crowd ... but I enjoyed most of it. I came in part way through and it was about 30 minutes before I realized the room was divided and I was doing the ladies' part :-) It was a very long class but you could watch and learn even if there weren't explanations.

I've heard since then that you can get a whole level better Rumba out of a genuine Cubano though.

[naturallove]

Actually I was pretty dissapointed with the workshop Tropical Gem held on Rumba.

They just taught some moves without explaining anything. The thing they said was "Do as I do"... this is not teaching...

Actually, some of the West African dance classes I used to take were a lot like that, especially after the warmup. The leader would do the move and then we'd follow. I actually learned pretty well that way. I can see your point though, that might really annoy me in a video. My dance teacher recommended one of the babalu vidoes, especially because the teacher does explain very well (which is a rarity, he says!)

[africana]

I've heard since then that you can get a whole level better Rumba out of a genuine Cubano though. agreed. we discussed the TG videos a while ago, like the Gordon Neil material it's sort of synthesized for the salsa crowd, but still pleasing to watch

[squirrel]

I do not learn by imitating and I always prefer things broken down.

This is why I like the way Edie the Salsa Freak or Susana Montero teach. To me, they rule! Anything they say is explained in detail. I've learned a lot from them both as a dancer and as a teacher. And this is how I teach as well.

I know some Cubans who can dance, but none of them can actually teach what they do. So, for my purpose, they are not useful. It's a pleasure to watch them though.

My expectations from a class (any kind of class, especially styling and body movement) is to be well broken down and explained so that the most untalented person can at least have some material to work on. Basic techniques can be explained by someone who understands what the body is doing. And such teachers are an inspiration to me.

[africana]

naturallove is right, it's almost a cultural thing "see and do" is prevalent with African teaching, that's how the dances were passed down for generations within those cultures,
so liking the teaching style can depend on one's culture, training and resultant learning style not necessarily the teacher's ability. Also depends on previous exposure (what type of dance, music and training the student has been exposed to before).

This type of music/dance is truly complex though, so every previous experience helps. I didn't grow up danicng but at least I had some exposure to polyrhythmic African music. But I imagine for a western crowd the teacher has to change their strategies to fit the culture of the most of his/her students

In any case, repetition helps! that's why I still take classes when possible

[squirrel]

Exactly africana... :) You dot the i's and crosses the t's :)

To me, that African music is mostly unknown and I have not danced anything (not even "pedestrian dancing" as I call it now). Anytime I'd be in a party, I'd talk and drink with people and not move an inch. Also, I didn't like going to the disco (I don't now either, I just go to Salsa Clubs). So, telling me "Do as I do" is not helping a bit.

Anyway, a teacher has to be able to break down information in any field, not just dancing. This is one ability that is required regardless of what exactly you teach... IMO.

[sweavo]

Anyway, a teacher has to be able to break down information in any field, not just dancing. This is one ability that is required regardless of what exactly you teach... IMO.

Are you an engineer? :-)

I've always been into dancing, and I do learn by mimicry. For me, too much breaking down is a turnoff, I need to keep my mind's eye fixed on the overall effect. It's a bit like going to poetry class and learning how to spell loads of words and which ones rhyme with one another. Useful, but not poetry.

I'm an engineer by the way :-)

[naturallove]

Exactly africana... :) You dot the i's and crosses the t's :)

To me, that African music is mostly unknown and I have not danced anything (not even "pedestrian dancing" as I call it now). Anytime I'd be in a party, I'd talk and drink with people and not move an inch. Also, I didn't like going to the disco (I don't now either, I just go to Salsa Clubs). So, telling me "Do as I do" is not helping a bit.

Anyway, a teacher has to be able to break down information in any field, not just dancing. This is one ability that is required regardless of what exactly you teach... IMO.

I think it's a unique gift to be able to teach different types of learners. Squirrel, it sounds like you may be more of an audio learner, where some people may learn better by watching--or doing. Then, you have people like me, who learn well with both methods. When I teach my fitness and dance-based fitness classes, I try very, very hard to cater to all types of learners. Sometimes, I see a move as better taught with counts, sometimes, looking at something is easier. I agree with you that a well-done instructional tape should have both. It's tough with african and latin dances because much of it is 'feel'--and sometimes that 'feel' is not easily translated without becoming robotic.

[squirrel]

Are you an engineer? :-)

I've always been into dancing, and I do learn by mimicry. For me, too much breaking down is a turnoff, I need to keep my mind's eye fixed on the overall effect. It's a bit like going to poetry class and learning how to spell loads of words and which ones rhyme with one another. Useful, but not poetry.

I'm an engineer by the way :-)

No I am not... :) I graduated from Academy of Economic Studies and I work in reinsurance. :)

I learn a bit by watching as well... but most people need to UNDERSTAND. Ok, maybe one can watch some moves and replicate them, but how can you be sure they got the correct technique?

[squirrel]

I think it's a unique gift to be able to teach different types of learners. Squirrel, it sounds like you may be more of an audio learner, where some people may learn better by watching--or doing. Then, you have people like me, who learn well with both methods. When I teach my fitness and dance-based fitness classes, I try very, very hard to cater to all types of learners. Sometimes, I see a move as better taught with counts, sometimes, looking at something is easier. I agree with you that a well-done instructional tape should have both. It's tough with african and latin dances because much of it is 'feel'--and sometimes that 'feel' is not easily translated without becoming robotic.

:) It will be robotic until it becomes natural. Repeat it over and over again and it'll feel natural. :) ANYTHING can be taught except for feeling. :)

I am sometimes watching "pedestrians" (non-trained club-goers who wave about w/o any idea of what they are doing or why - I am not including here those who are talented, just the regular John or Jane Doe) and I am sure they are having loads of fun, but their moves LOOK horrible... :(

[sweavo]

I learn a bit by watching as well... but most people need to UNDERSTAND.

Yeah, with you there, but I would replace "understand" with "rationalize" there. Once you have something broken down it allows you to retain the individual parts, but you then have the separate task of re-assembling the parts (assimilating into what you already know) before I would say you really acquired the knowledge or skill. To my mind an over-dependence on breaking things down is what leads to the phenomenon of the "pattern monkey" - the person who has loads of moves and STILL is not dancing!

I think I'm only arguing because it's a long day in the office and there's not a lot of action on the email :-)

[Brendan]

I've heard since then that you can get a whole level better Rumba out of a genuine Cubano though.
It can vary quite a lot. I've had rumba lessons with a few different people on trips to Cuba and here in the UK at congresses,.... Whilst all the teachers were really amazing dancers, only one of them actually broke down both what he was doing and what I was doing in order to tell me what I was doing wrong and how to fix it. Learning the basic steps of rumba takes maybe half an hour or so and just about anyone can teach it. Getting them to look right though take a lot longer and involves a lot more work on just exactly which bits you're isolating, the angle you're standing at, arm posture,... The person who was actually able to teach that was surprisingly enough a dance teacher at the university in Havana.

Brendan

[africana]

there's also the language barrier when teaching non-native speakers or non-speakers...it can be quite frustrating lol (like listening to Cuban spanish, ay! I would rather they just shut up and dance hahaa!)

[africana]

Here are a few more videos I have:

Guaguanco by Neri Torres. Pretty good video. Instruction is tailored more for the female. Available at http://www.ife-ile.org/store.htm.
I really like this video so far, the basic steps are things I need to work on, especially the travel step. I never quite got comfortale with it last year at her workshop, because the beats for the steps are all over the map (I can't see a pattern).
so now I can watch over and over along with my home videos from her workshops :)

"rinse and repeat" ;)

[cubanfolkloricdance]

The Academy of Cuban Folklore & Dance in Seattle, WA has just released the first in a series of instructional Orisha dance DVDs - Eleggua. This DVD features over 60 minutes of detailed instruction on 4 of the most well-known toques of Elegguá: La Lumbanche, La Topa, Ynongo & Chachalokuafun. The RUMBA DVD features detailed instruction on Yambú (42 min.) & Guaguancó (50 min.) in addition to demonstrations & performances.

José Carrión, former principal dancer of Ballet Folklorico Cutumba de Santiago, shares with the viewers the methodology he used as a professor in Cuba to train generations of dancers. He offers lots and lots of details and explanations so that folks can learn to dance on their own. As José would say, "it's not a 'follow-the-leader' kind of thing".

[naturallove]

The Academy of Cuban Folklore & Dance in Seattle, WA has just released the first in a series of instructional Orisha dance DVDs - Eleggua. This DVD features over 60 minutes of detailed instruction on 4 of the most well-known toques of Elegguá: La Lumbanche, La Topa, Ynongo & Chachalokuafun. The RUMBA DVD features detailed instruction on Yambú (42 min.) & Guaguancó (50 min.) in addition to demonstrations & performances.

José Carrión, former principal dancer of Ballet Folklorico Cutumba de Santiago, shares with the viewers the methodology he used as a professor in Cuba to train generations of dancers. He offers lots and lots of details and explanations so that folks can learn to dance on their own. As José would say, "it's not a 'follow-the-leader' kind of thing".
I have been really wanting to get the Rumba DVD-one of my instructors said it is quite good and that Jose's instruction is also good.

[sweavo]

I found the Rumba DVD quite hard to watch and very slow-paced, though it was informative
.

[naturallove]

I found the Rumba DVD quite hard to watch and very slow-paced, though it was informative
.
What did you find hard to watch? Were the production values not very good?

[sweavo]

What did you find hard to watch? Were the production values not very good?

Yeah, the picture and sound weren't great, the thick cuban accent was half-expected but didn't help, and the explanations sometimes took so long I had forgotten what I was doing by the time he got to the end of the sentence! From knowing nearly nothing about Rumba I found the DvD helpful, but those guys need to get a video director in who will keep the pace going.

[naturallove]

Yeah, the picture and sound weren't great, the thick cuban accent was half-expected but didn't help, and the explanations sometimes took so long I had forgotten what I was doing by the time he got to the end of the sentence! From knowing nearly nothing about Rumba I found the DvD helpful, but those guys need to get a video director in who will keep the pace going.
I don't need breakneck speed, but I do like some pacing. Hmm...I think I might have to pass on this one. Sweavo, do you have any other suggestions?

[alemana]

aren't you in NYC? have you considered going to afro-cuban classes at djoniba?

[naturallove]

aren't you in NYC? have you considered going to afro-cuban classes at djoniba?
Oh no...I wish! No, I live in North Carolina right now.
ETA: I could just cry right now! I looked at the Djoniba schedule online. On Sunday alone, my legs would give out if I took all of the classes I wanted..afro-cuban, hatian, brazilian. I always thought I'd take Eddie's class if I were in NY on a Sunday but this stuff sounds amazing!!!!

[alemana]

sorry, sorry! ack, for some reason i thought you were here :(

[naturallove]

sorry, sorry! ack, for some reason i thought you were here :(
It's okay..:( I'd get even less work done if I did. I think when I visit home again (Philly) I will visit NYC.

[gte692h]

youtube is always a good resource. I personally am very interested in this dance as well, but i'm more focused on the music for now. here are some exercpts from historical type documentaries

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fp6GN_Fjas&NR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDkIE6PG2Eg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpIrnv3fS6o - This clip is from "...y tenemos sabor" (1967) dir. Sara Gómez

one more idea is to call up the teachers in the big cities like NY and SFO, and ask them if they know folks in your town. I'm in phx, but a friend goes to SFO once in a while to video tape private lessons with her instructor. She started her afro-cuban dancing in NY though.