Fewer Pro Shows at Competitions

[DanceMentor]

I've noticed a few of the smaller competitions that hired pros to do shows last year didn't do that this year. Instead, they made the finale of the competition the championship rounds.

Do you think this is an emerging trend?
Or is this just something they did to cut costs while the economy is slow?

I know it usually costs about $4000 to get a pro couple to come and do a show for 30 minutes on 2 nights. Maybe they are charging more than the organizers want to pay?

[Vince A]

The only thing I've noticed, is that attendance at the events are down. I believe it is still somewhat due to lower flying of attendees since 9/11. The attendance at the event in November seemed to be down by at least a third. That's usually a large event!

At the events that I've been to this year, the have always been many Pros . . . Pros competing against one another . . . Pros in Showcase . . . Pros in the dinner shows . . . Pros in the Jack and Jills.

Yes they get $$$, entries paid for, food, airfare, and hotels comp'd. But they are there!

[DancingMommy]

Well, I "heard" that when Jean-Marc Generaux & France Mousseau were doing shows, they got +/- $10K USD for a show.

That might be a reason to not have a pro show.

One thing I've noticed (and remarked to hubby about this week) is that competition prices haven't gone up much in the last 6 years or so, even though other things have gone up. I think that the comp organizers pretty much have it such that if they raise prices, no one will come. In order to keep costs reasonable, cutting back on some of the frills is the only way to do that.

When I was pregnant with Gabriella, we saw Alain & Anik at a local event and paid $75 for the two of us to watch the show (no dinner). It wasn't a huge event, so I have to assume that the cost of having the pro show was not much less than the actual cost we were charged.

[Vince A]

The dinner shows is where I'm really seeing less attendance . . . maybe the Pros need to do something different for a change.

A lot of us have seen their routines enough times . . . maybe a *******er is overdue???

I really don't know . . . just guessing.

[Adwiz]

maybe the Pros need to do something different for a change... A lot of us have seen their routines enough times . . . maybe a *******er is overdue???

I think you've made a good point. I've generally been quite disappointed in the quality of presentation from the "pros." It seems that the higher their reputation, the less interesting their show. While their technique might be perfect, this becomes a letdown, especially when young rising stars outshine them with a stunning performance that might not be quite as technically perfect.

[DancingMommy]

Resurrecting this thread (no pun intended) with a question...

If you had your choice of what to see as the "big deal" performance, which would it be:

1) A few showdances done by a well known Pro couple...

2) A showdance or two by a local Pro couple...

3) Honor dances from the main winners of the event...

4) Finals of Championship events...

5) Something else? (Please explain)

[Laura]

I tend to look at these things from an organizer's point of view. If money were no object, #1 or #2. If the budget were small but still allowed for it, #5, where #5 is a showdance by a top Championship-level amateur couple. We usually do #3 at our smaller events. #4 is what people are there for anyway, so it doesn't seem to me like it fits the "big deal" description.

[Warren J. Dew]

As a spectator, the most interesting thing for me to see is generally the finals of the championship events. Honor dances are nice too.

[Chris Stratton]

Question: If a comp charges a seperate admission for the session containing it's pro show, how does the cost and benefit of two tickets for that compare to taking a lesson with one of the pros involved?

I don't mean to ignore that there are differences between the opportunity to watch someone dance with their partner and the chance to ask them how they do it.

Ironically though, I think it takes experience watching to get real value from a show, and also experience taking master-lessons to get real value from a guest lesson! But it may be that the only way to get there is to start doing them now, so that in the future they will be more effective.

[Joe]

I think you've made a good point. I've generally been quite disappointed in the quality of presentation from the "pros." It seems that the higher their reputation, the less interesting their show. While their technique might be perfect, this becomes a letdown, especially when young rising stars outshine them with a stunning performance that might not be quite as technically perfect.
JM+France and Alain+Anik are two couples that both do excellent shows.

Now, they (and I'm sure most couples) probably don't vary their show within a short period of time, so if you go to see them a couple of months aparts you may see the same thing, or close.

[DancingMommy]

Alain and Anik were good, but in the words of Simon Cowell, "I've seen better".

[dTas]

i like pro-shows where the pros actually invest time into creating a show. i hate it when pro's just do their comp routine again but add a beginning and an ending to match the music.

one nice thing about a show is that you have the choice of music, setting, costume and you're not restricted by competition rules. so GO FOR IT!

show's should WOW! and capture the viewers in some way.

[Alskling]

One thing I really dislike about pro shows is the costume change after EVERY dance, which (a) completely interrupts the flow of the performance and (b) drags out the length of the show, sometimes unbearably. Almost everyone does it now.

[spatten]

I think having a Pro-Show is one of the best parts of the comps for the audience especially if pros like Alain and Anik are dancing.

I am more interested in seeing the quality of movement versus a large production number. I'm pretty content with anything they dance. In fact I'd rather see a relatively quiet number by the top pros then a bigger dramatic number by a couple that isn't quite as good. Kind of like the difference between watching some Amateur and Pro rounds.

That said - I always enjoyed the showcase aspect of Ohio Star Ball - at least what I saw on TV. I remember one year where the Mosteikas (sp?) did a beautiful tango/waltz - that was sensational in drama and dancing.
So I guess the best combination would be to have the top pro's doing a well choreographed and dramatized number.

[twnkltoz]

One thing I really dislike about pro shows is the costume change after EVERY dance, which (a) completely interrupts the flow of the performance and (b) drags out the length of the show, sometimes unbearably. Almost everyone does it now.

I agree, half the time it's superfluous...she's just changing to a different skimpy latin costume. Sometimes it goes with the number, but not always...and you wonder what the heck you were waiting for!!

[Chris Stratton]

I thought it was well known that half the fun in dancing was playing dress-up?

[Joe]

Alain and Anik were good, but in the words of Simon Cowell, "I've seen better".
Elucidate.

[DancingMommy]

It was - to paraphrase randy Jackson "Aight". I wasn't moved. It seemed a little flat and uni-dimensional. It was..... not moooooooving... You know.... So incredible that you think about the performance for the rest of your life.

It was - to quote Simon Cowell (again) - "forgettable".

[Joe]

Care to further expound on whom you've "seen better?"

[DancingMommy]

I have video of showdances by Andrew Sinkinson and Charlotte Jorgenson... They were astounding. The level of theatre was really superb. It was at Heritage Classic a LONG time ago...

I saw Alain & Anik maybe 3 years ago? I saw them dance the Pro Latin at Diamond in Orlando in 2001 and it was OK. There was an Italian couple that rocked my world though. The female was from the USA but her partner was from Italy. They were dancing for Italy. She was platinum blond...

[skwiggy]

I saw Alain & Anik maybe 3 years ago? I saw them dance the Pro Latin at Diamond in Orlando in 2001 and it was OK.

Ok, so you've seen them in competition. Have you ever seen them do a show? And have you ever seen them compete in Standard, for that matter? Their Standard is quite lovely.

I second Joe's comment that Jean Marc & France and Alain & Anik are two couples who do some of the most excellent shows. And even better when they all do a show together!

I also really enjoyed the Mosteika's showdances, before they retired of course.

[DancingMommy]

Yes I HAVE seen them dance standard (many times via TV) and YES I have seen them do a show (live). The show left me cold. Just because so and so has won umpteen championships doesn't make them my favorite. In fact, I favor Massimo & Alessia over Alain & Anik.

And that's MY opnion - to which I'm entitled. Just because you think they are superb doesn't mean I have to. We all have different things that appeal to us.

Maybe I'm just prejudiced in favor of the Italians. <shrug> It matters not.

[skwiggy]

I didn't say that you had to think anything. You're entitled to your opinion, of course. You just led me to believe from your post that you had never actually seen them do a show, since when asked when you saw them, you only referenced having seen them compete Latin. No need to get snippy.

[Larinda McRaven]

There was an Italian couple that rocked my world though. The female was from the USA but her partner was from Italy. They were dancing for Italy. She was platinum blond...

That would probably be Melissa Dexter and Giacomo (last name unrememberable).

[smoozer]

Saw Alan and Hazel Fletcher do demonstrations years ago. Fairly simple but the quality left me speachless. If I want to see "show dancing" I go to a show not a ballroom event. Few of the "show" routines I have seen were outstanding and definitly non have moved me.

[Katarzyna]

There was an Italian couple that rocked my world though. The female was from the USA but her partner was from Italy. They were dancing for Italy. She was platinum blond...

That would probably be Melissa Dexter and Giacomo (last name unrememberable).

Just curious, didn't Erminio dance for Italy before? not sure...?

[Laura]

Yes, Erminio danced with Luana Conte for Italy, then they both moved here.

Also, IMDb (Internet Movie Database at imdb.com) reveals that Giacomo's last name is Steccaglia.

[Katarzyna]

Thank you Laura. Luana danced with Victor for the US?

[Katarzyna]

Just checked.. I guess she didn't...

Got coufused with Liene Apale

[Katarzyna]

Sorry, I think I'm confusing myself. Could someone clarifY?

[DancingMommy]

There was an Italian couple that rocked my world though. The female was from the USA but her partner was from Italy. They were dancing for Italy. She was platinum blond...

That would probably be Melissa Dexter and Giacomo (last name unrememberable).

YES! I couldn't remember the names... BUT OH THE DANCING.

VIVA ITALIA!!!

[Laura]

Liene Apale is from Lithuania. She came to the US a few years ago and started out dancing with Alexander Fung, then danced with Victor Fung briefly as an amateur. Then she turned pro and briefly danced with Francesco Flumiani, and now is dancing with Erminio Stefano.

Erminio Stefano and Luana Conte used to live in Italy and dance for Italy, first as amateurs, then as pros. Then they moved to the US. Then Luana went back to Italy (health issues) and Erminio and Liene started dancing together.

(www . dancesportinfo.net is the source of most of this info.)

[Katarzyna]

Thank You. I was checking the info on the same site, but was getting a bit confused :)

[new-ish]

Instead of a "super-couple" at $10k, I'd rather see five local pros at $2k ea. if those numbers work.

[contracheck]

That would probably be Melissa Dexter and Giacomo (last name unrememberable).

unrememberable? He is my friend Giacomo Agrello. That's not a hard name to remember.

[Laura]

Giacomo Agrello may be a friend of yours, but Giacomo Steccaglia is Melissa Dexter's Latin partner.

[DancingJools]

If I'm not mistaken, Melissa won the US national title a while back, with whatshisname who did "Dance with Me" :lol: He retired, and she kept on, and partnered with Giacomo S. and started dancing for Italy. She kept on placing very highly in Europe and int'l comps (finalist in European champs, semi in Blackpool, if I remember correctly). Anyway, so there she was, in the late 90's and early 00's, and I would hear people moaning about the fact that there were no Americans on the international dance scene (this was before the Red Army moved to the US, lock, stock and dancing shoes). And I would listen to that and wonder, "What about Melissa? Doesn't she count?" I suppose because she was dancing for Italy, she really didn't count.
Anyway, I always liked her, and admired her determination to keep on going. She has meticulous technique (she was also the teacher of my former teacher, so I have a soft spot for her). I understand she retired recently and married her partner.

BTW, about that Red Army comment, and before anyone jumps on me, I really am joking about that. I am very, very much in favor of outstanding dancers moving to the US and competing for the US. IMHO, the East European coaches and dancers of all ages , especially the Russians, have done wonders for the dance scene in this country, and we are all the better for it.

Also, my teacher now is Russian. :D :D

[DancingMommy]

You seen Juan, you seen Amal....

[DancingMommy]

If I'm not mistaken, Melissa won the US national title a while back, with whatshisname who did "Dance with Me" :lol: He retired, and she kept on, and partnered with Giacomo S. and started dancing for Italy. She kept on placing very highly in Europe and int'l comps (finalist in European champs, semi in Blackpool, if I remember correctly). Anyway, so there she was, in the late 90's and early 00's, and I would hear people moaning about the fact that there were no Americans on the international dance scene (this was before the Red Army moved to the US, lock, stock and dancing shoes). And I would listen to that and wonder, "What about Melissa? Doesn't she count?" I suppose because she was dancing for Italy, she really didn't count.
Anyway, I always liked her, and admired her determination to keep on going. She has meticulous technique (she was also the teacher of my former teacher, so I have a soft spot for her). I understand she retired recently and married her partner.

BTW, about that Red Army comment, and before anyone jumps on me, I really am joking about that. I am very, very much in favor of outstanding dancers moving to the US and competing for the US. IMHO, the East European coaches and dancers of all ages , especially the Russians, have done wonders for the dance scene in this country, and we are all the better for it.

Also, my teacher now is Russian. :D :D

Thta's be Rick (I coach James & Jaana) Valenzuela. :-)

[DancingJools]

And to get back to the original topic of this thread, let's see if I can post the link correctly (I hope I'm not breaking any rules here). Check out this brief video of what I think is the most fantastic showdance I have ever seen. It is Max Kozhevnikov and Yulia Zagorouychenko. This is the show that won them the Dutch Open last year (that's one of the biggest titles for showdance out there). They have a new show now (the one that won at Ohio last year), so I think this little video is the only chance to see a bit of this awesome routine.

Max and Yulia showdance performed at the Millenium Competition in 2004 (http://www.dsninternational.com/members/rams/04Mill/040801MillMaxYulia-hi.ram)

The file is in ram format, so you need to have RealPlayer installed in order to play it.

Enjoy.

[pygmalion]

Bummer. I have RealPlayer installed, but I couldn't get the page to display. :(

[DancingJools]

Try it again in a few minutes. I had the same problem when I posted the link, and had to go back and check it over and over again to make sure it works. I think the server is kinda funky.
If that doesn't work, try right-click and "save target as", save it to you desktop, and open it from there.

[Laura]

I got it no problem. Excellent. I was entranced with her arm styling, too. Fabulous.

[Adwiz]

One thing I really dislike about pro shows is the costume change after EVERY dance, which (a) completely interrupts the flow of the performance and (b) drags out the length of the show, sometimes unbearably. Almost everyone does it now.

No kidding. That annoys me too. Oh for a return to those days when Donny and Gaynor would do the entire show changing only a jacket or hat! That's entertainment!

I've also noticed that fewer pros are being invited to do shows, even if they are in the competition, and I'm sure it has to do with the excessive costs involved.

What I like to see is when the competition draws itself out with solo routines for some of the dances. This makes the whole evening so much more enjoyable because it feels like a huge show then, with 12 "show dances" in addition to the competition group dances and honor dance. It's also pretty easy to plan for the organizers as it is part of the competitive event itself. The energy level remains high because it doesn't happen after the comp is over.

[Joe]

You seen Juan, you seen Amal....
LMAO!

[LauraB]

That clip is fabulous!

I do like it when the "show" is honor dances, the winners of each category performing. I have to say, however, that the best show I've seen was Jean-Marc & France. They did Latin one night, and Standard the next, and their Latin show was so energetic, humorous, and emotionally moving. (Their Standard show wasn't as entertaining.) But who doesn't love them? (That's meant to be rhetorical.)