Tech Nerds and Dance ? [Archive]

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GJB

08-22-2006, 12:53 PM

tanya_the_dancer

08-22-2006, 01:10 PM

yanka

08-22-2006, 01:16 PM

math major. do fairly nerdy work for insurance co.

Attracted to dance bc there are always new challenges and problems to overcome/find solutions to. You can see yourself improving and that makes you both feel good AND want to try harder.

pielcanela

08-22-2006, 01:40 PM

I am a software engineer, I think one reason why I like dancing and particularly ballroom, is because of the amount of technique, precise movement, the degree of the detail, and complexity of a every move. there are so many details to think, to perfect, to take into account

tunape

08-22-2006, 02:04 PM

To explain why nerds dance, one of my friend's theory is that "they[nerds] need instructions to touch members of the opposite sex."

White Chacha

08-22-2006, 02:19 PM

To explain why nerds dance, one of my friend's theory is that "they[nerds] need instructions to touch members of the opposite sex."

Maybe not so much instructions as permission and creation of an appropriate environment?

DanceMentor

08-22-2006, 02:21 PM

I learned about websites after I become a dancer.

delamusica

08-22-2006, 02:45 PM

Um, sooooooo not me.

I'm a total nerd, but not like that. Technology is lost on me.

In fact, I just spent 20 minutes at Kinko's trying to send a one-page fax . . . finally the guy at the counter came to save me from myself. :rolleyes:

quixotedlm

08-22-2006, 02:51 PM

Me too - a tech nerd. I'm one of the swiss gaurds of the Internet ;)
Dancing is very very fun, almost bordering on a happy case of OCD :). It's my way of including a non-competitive side to my life.

cornutt

08-22-2006, 02:53 PM

Who here on this forum is a tech nerd?

Present. :D Actually, though, I've always had a foot in both the art and the tech worlds. I had never done any dancing until a few years ago, but I come from a family with a lot of musicians. My dad sings and plays tuba; my brother plays bass and guitar; I have one cousin who plays bass and another who plays trumpet and trombone. I kind of lost the art thread while I was in high school and college, so after I graduated (and I had a bit of money to blow :cool: ), I was determined to pick it back up again. Since then I've played keyboards in a bar band, did a brief stint as a wedding photographer, tried writing a novel (which I never finished, unfortunately), and now I have dance. I agree with pielcanela in that dancing appeals to both my artistic and engineering aspects.

I sometimes wonder what I'd do in an alternate universe where art pays well and engineering doesn't. Would I be a professional dancer, doing engineering on the side? ;)

quixotedlm

08-22-2006, 02:55 PM

To explain why nerds dance, one of my friend's theory is that "they[nerds] need instructions to touch members of the opposite sex."

I was going to object to the use of the word 'nerd', and this is why. The popular concept of a nerd is someone who is socially inept. I think in this thread, we are referring to 'geeks' who are into a technical/scientific pursuit in a hardcore way, are brainy and like doing the technogeeky stuff. It doesn't make them(us, me) a "nerd" in the socially-inept sense of the word. I think your friend is talking about a different group.

Medira

08-22-2006, 02:56 PM

*raises hand* Hi. I'm Medira and I speak geek.

I have a diploma in Software Engineering and am currently working on my degree completion in Computer Science.

I love the freedom I feel when I'm dancing and I love the challenge of achieving the precision that's required for the technique and footwork and frame and connection and...everything that it takes to make the dancing look and feel as beautiful as it can be. :D

Twilight_Elena

08-22-2006, 03:07 PM

To explain why nerds dance, one of my friend's theory is that "they[nerds] need instructions to touch members of the opposite sex."

:lol: That sounds logical enough to me.
I'm majoring in Physics.

T_E

Peaches

08-22-2006, 03:32 PM

Anna

08-22-2006, 03:34 PM

I'm a math major, my dance partner's a math grad student, plus nearly the entire rest of the team is physics or engineering majors...so we get along well!

tunape

08-22-2006, 03:35 PM

I was going to object to the use of the word 'nerd', and this is why. The popular concept of a nerd is someone who is socially inept. I think in this thread, we are referring to 'geeks' who are into a technical/scientific pursuit in a hardcore way, are brainy and like doing the technogeeky stuff. It doesn't make them(us, me) a "nerd" in the socially-inept sense of the word. I think your friend is talking about a different group.

I don't think it's easy to show:
1) semantic differences between nerds and geeks
2) that the statement applies more to one group over the other
3) that the 'truth' applies to more of one group over the other

as a result, the statement only works as a whimsical truthiness. :)

Anna

08-22-2006, 03:35 PM

None of us (my team) are really technology nerds, though.

tunape

08-22-2006, 03:39 PM

I'm a math major, my dance partner's a math grad student, plus nearly the entire rest of the team is physics or engineering majors...so we get along well!

one data point I've seen(from my friend who made this statement), his school is a top tier liberal arts school with different schools for humanities and engineering&sciences. about 3/4 of the team consisted of the latter school, while only 1/4 or less for the former school.

likewise, you may find a higher percentage of science&engineering students who play a musical instrument than from other schools(except maybe the music and performing arts school).

GJB

08-22-2006, 03:45 PM

arianiah

08-22-2006, 03:51 PM

I have a friend of mine who is a lindy fanatic and she says the best leads are the engineer students. Her theory is that they know how things move and operate. Coincidence??I don't know..i just like to groove myself. my husband was in civil eng/elec eng and mech eng. but has two left feet..so not really sure what to think except that once you learn to do something well..you love it. Hence once i figured out math..i liked to do it.

pielcanela

08-22-2006, 03:53 PM

in our dance team we have several engineers, scientist, and Phds students too :):)

DrDoug

08-22-2006, 03:55 PM

My dad sings and plays tuba;

At the same time? I'm impressed!

DWise1

08-22-2006, 04:00 PM

'Puter Geek here. Though I had started out in college as a foreign language geek -- you really don't even start to learn English grammar until you've studied German, you know; though you do end up with a tendency to write longer sentences. Also, this gave me a strong background in the humanities (in my first seven years of college) before I switched from human languages to computer languages. I don't view dancing as any extension of my geekiness, except that when I started I approached it as I would other subjects, by Google'ing for as much information as I could and then by observing and analyzing what we're being taught; others have told me that I pick up new steps and new moves very quickly.

Example of Geekiness in Motion:
In Lindy class, we were being taught a move in which the guy does a spin for which he pushes off his partner's shoulder. One of our geekier students, a mathematician who also teaches engineering classes at a junior college, asked a question about what angle to apply force to her shoulder, pointing out that it should be best to push off in line with a line through her shoulders since that would impart the least torque to her body. I think he might have lost a few of the other students, but it made perfect sense to me.

Similarly, when the women are being taught how to turn and spin (I watch the door and handle registration for a monthly WCS women's styling class) and the teacher teaches them to wind up wide (ie, arms out and feet apart) and then draw in tight to turn and extend out again to stop, it's all I can do to not explain that it's simply a matter of conservation of angular momentum.

Well, it is.

pielcanela

08-22-2006, 04:18 PM

when I started I approached it as I would other subjects, by Google'ing for as much information as I could and then by observing and analyzing what we're being taught;

:) yap

cornutt

08-22-2006, 04:21 PM

At the same time? I'm impressed!

Two words: Air compressor. :D Instead of a Sousaphone, it's a Sullair-ophone! :p

alemana

08-22-2006, 04:21 PM

Maybe not so much instructions as permission and creation of an appropriate environment?

good one!

quixotedlm

08-22-2006, 04:38 PM

By "tech nerd", I meant those science/math/engineering types who are stereotypically considered bad dancers if not spastic (sp?).

Nice to see there are so many of us ! And, it does go against the stereotype ! And, I thought it would be that way.

I think the stereotype is so wrong. Most of the dancers, at least in the ballroom and salsa world around here, are deep into some kind of technology or academic pursuit.

The liberal artsy types show up more often, impromptu, for beginners lessons etc. They surely find it easier to just 'give it a whirl'. But fewer of them seem to take it seriously and survive longer.

alemana

08-22-2006, 04:44 PM

my personal trajectory is that the deep lack of social life i had when i began dancing is precisely what made it possible for me to immerse and improve. extrapolate to geekdom at your own risk :)

quixotedlm

08-22-2006, 04:55 PM

my personal trajectory is that the deep lack of social life i had when i began dancing is precisely what made it possible for me to immerse and improve. extrapolate to geekdom at your own risk :)

I had a similar experience. I did have some social life, but not one that i was extremely happy with or enjoying as much as I enjoy dancing now.

jekyblue

08-22-2006, 05:01 PM

scotttocs

08-22-2006, 05:47 PM

*wave*

Physics Degree, working in software now.

Started dance to be social, stayed in dance 'cause i just love it, and do mostly (Exclusively?) international Standard now...

cornutt

08-22-2006, 08:41 PM

my personal trajectory is that the deep lack of social life i had when i began dancing is precisely what made it possible for me to immerse and improve.

Although my lack-of-social-life period and my beginning dancing are separated by a number of years, I understand perfectly what you're talking about. :friend:

liangjz

08-22-2006, 08:43 PM

yep.... cs masters and cs research for a job.

DennisBeach

08-22-2006, 09:16 PM

OK ...

Who here on this forum is a tech nerd? Loosely defined as someone with a degree in Mathematics, Physics, Science, Computer Science or Engineering or someone who doesn't have the degree but works in one of the aforementioned fields.

And, what do you think attracts us to dance?

Me - Degree in Engineering working as a software engineer. What attracts me to dance. Simply, it's fun !

Disclaimer - I do not own a pocket protector or have a calculator strapped to my belt !

I have a math major with minors in Physics, computer science and electronics. Dancing is mentally and physically challenging. I like both kinds of challenges. Dancing is real time problem solving, much more fun for me than video games which I have never liked. Figuring out what moves you can do safely and effectively on a dance floor, is definitely a mental challenge. We dance advanced moves and move a lot on crowded dance floors and rarely come in contact with other dancers ( about once every 12-15 hours of dancing ). Being analytical and being able to think quickly, really makes that possible.

I have never been the classic geek or nerd. I have always been involved in a lot of physical activities and dated a lot of girls when I was single.

ACtenDance

08-22-2006, 10:47 PM

Aerospace Engineer getting my Masters degree now. I also dabble in computers. Dancing is another great way to be creative and also a great way to spend time with my girlfriend where we can turn our competitive natures outward instead of toward each other.

tangotime

08-23-2006, 12:34 AM

DWise1

08-23-2006, 12:46 AM

The liberal artsy types show up more often, impromptu, for beginners lessons etc. They surely find it easier to just 'give it a whirl'. But fewer of them seem to take it seriously and survive longer.

Due perhaps to the different levels of discipline cultivated by our respective disciplines? I'm reminded of "Salsa Freak" Edie's article on "beginner's hell" in which the women start progressing almost immediately while the guys take much longer just to get started and start to progress; she gives part of the reason as being because guys have about 24 things to learn to do compared to the women's 5 things [http://www.salsastories.com/stories_a-b/beginners_hell.html]:
If the man can get through “Beginner’s Hell”, he can conquer just about anything he sets his mind to – for the rest of his life. All it takes is patience, lots of practice, and a combination of the following: ...

But the women:

Over time, the female students will eventually start to level off at a certain point. They don’t feel like they are progressing or getting any better. To get over this plateau, they need to light a fire under themselves and start doing some radical changes. Most start taking Ladies Styling classes, investing in instructional styling videos, join a dance team, or even start competing. Some take up other forms of dance, to get ideas and build their creativity.

If the ladies don’t do something to get out of their little “rut” of no improvement, they will find themselves sitting on the sidelines watching their male counterparts look fabulous with the better, more stylish female dancers. Their male counterparts are now blowing her away. They will eventually leave her in the dust if she doesn’t continue to learn and grow.

My understanding of what Edie's describing is that the ones for whom it's not easy will progress, but to do so they need to develop the skills and the attitude and persistence to tackle difficult tasks and accomplish them. But those who find it easy will progress until it starts to become difficult and, since they didn't have to develop the necessary study skills and attitude and fortitude, they're more likely to get frustrated and move on to something else.

Students in the technical fields have a more rigorous curriculum than the liberal arts types. Engineering students carry more than a full load and have nontrivial homework practically every night, so they develop the skills and the discipline to learn difficult subjects. Liberal arts types have far less opportunity to learn those skills (remember that I've been both, only the computer science curriculum, while challenging, was nowhere near what the engineering students had to deal with). So an engineer is far better equipped to stick with it and take it seriously than is a "liberal artsy type".

DWise1

08-23-2006, 12:57 AM

Hey, this is me, too! Except it was Russian, and you're right about learning English grammar in the process.

Studying any foreign language helps because you discover what a grammar is for (ie, that it's the key to how the language works), whereas the alternative usually turns into already knowing what's right and then memorizing a few apparently arbitrary rules for when the experts say that something else is right.

I personally believe that German is better for learning about English grammar (AKA "structure) because English grammar, especially the verb system, is very Germanic. Basically, English is German with a much weaker case system (including loss of case endings) and a vocabulary that's mostly French.

And the foreign language learning skills seemed to apply when it came time to learn computer languages.

I noticed the same thing when I started programming. While the other students were trying to debug their FORTRAN programs by making random "corrections", I would sit down and read my program in terms of what I was telling the computer to do; I would basically read the code as if I were the computer so that I could see whether it made any sense.

Guess who got their programs debugged faster?

tangotime

08-23-2006, 02:26 AM

I seem to remember form my college days ( many moons ago) that the english lang. was predicated on greek and latin , hence its requirement ( or used to be ) for entry into Univ. But, would agree , any additional language skill can only be a plus ; having a mathematics backgound,as well as being a dancer since childhood, i,ve had the constant internal battle between aesthetics and and kinetics !!! --Let me give you other side of the "learning " process. have found the lady thing is probably generally true--the downside ?, once they have learned something and one tries to expand a theory into and on to , another plain, men generally accept the change more rapidly than ladies .( primarily in my comp. couples )

hamstersphere

08-23-2006, 02:48 AM

Several of the folk in my office (which is more or less a software development company) are quite serious dancers; we joke that we should start our own company formation team ...

Then again, I'm the only one of the office dancers who *isn't* a programmer. (I'm probably sufficiently geeky, though.)

There might be something in that geeky base instinct of wanting to figure out how everything works ... unravel systems and such.

Twilight_Elena

08-23-2006, 03:21 AM

I noticed the same thing when I started programming. While the other students were trying to debug their FORTRAN programs by making random "corrections", I would sit down and read my program in terms of what I was telling the computer to do; I would basically read the code as if I were the computer so that I could see whether it made any sense.

Guess who got their programs debugged faster?

That's how I do it too! :D

T_E

fluffy

08-23-2006, 04:31 AM

I have a PhD in maths, and have dancing friends with PhDs in maths, computing, sciences. Although going to a fairly nerdy uni does bias my sample! Ex-world Champion Chris Hawkins was doing a degree in maths before dropping out to dance full time.
I think us nerds are pedants, which makes us want to understand technique and get things right, like a nice proof.

Twilight_Elena

08-23-2006, 04:46 AM

You're a PhD??? Wow. I look up to PhDs. Considering it takes about 7 years for a PhD... Wow.

T_E

Peaches

08-23-2006, 06:52 AM

My understanding of what Edie's describing is that the ones for whom it's not easy will progress, but to do so they need to develop the skills and the attitude and persistence to tackle difficult tasks and accomplish them. But those who find it easy will progress until it starts to become difficult and, since they didn't have to develop the necessary study skills and attitude and fortitude, they're more likely to get frustrated and move on to something else.

I absolutely, 100% agree with this. Personally, I'm in the "everything came to me easily and I never learned how to study or how to grit my teeth and get through it" camp. By the time I got to where I really could have pushed myself harder (college), I'd burnt out so badly it's pretty lucky that I hadn't comitted suicide in the ensuing depression. Dancing is the perhaps the first thing since the first burn-out (I've had 3) that i've cared about enough not to skate by, and to push myself, and to keep going back to the things that give me fits and work on them until I get them.

Students in the technical fields have a more rigorous curriculum than the liberal arts types. Engineering students carry more than a full load and have nontrivial homework practically every night, so they develop the skills and the discipline to learn difficult subjects. Liberal arts types have far less opportunity to learn those skills (remember that I've been both, only the computer science curriculum, while challenging, was nowhere near what the engineering students had to deal with). So an engineer is far better equipped to stick with it and take it seriously than is a "liberal artsy type".

Um...I'm not too sure about this. With the caveat that I wasn't an engineering major, liberal arts can be plenty highly demanding and rigorous and nontrivial (lots of thanks for that generalization) with plenty of difficult subjects (more thanks), depending on various factors. The school, the professors, the concentrations, and not least of all, the student. While I'm not going to contradict your experiences, I'll just point out that I don't think it's particularly fair or valid to characterize all liberal arts as, essentially, easy fluff. Or those who majored in a liberal arts subject as less intellectually rigorus, or with less fortitude. You find all types.

fascination

08-23-2006, 07:45 AM

am going to let SD deal with you Dwise...at any rate....dh is waaaayy nerdly, with degrees in engineering and a J.D with patent law as the specialty...and it is that attention to detail that is a real asset to him...conversely he is not that attentive or in touch with his body and how to adjust it...or that interested in methodially improving it...nor does he have a good grasp on the artistic part of the deal...everyone is a mixed bag regarding where they fall on the contiuum of the different elements that make a truly fine dancer...which I think makes the dynamics of partnership so intriguing...and also what prompts us to become better rounded people....the discipline that I would not exercise to learn algebra, I will cultivate no matter how long it takes in order to waltz better

tangotime

08-23-2006, 07:48 AM

Are you aware that it used to take 9 yrs as a pro, before one could become a Fellow ?--sequence--1 yr in a recog, school before assoc--3 more yrs before members and 5 more before the Fell. exam .

fluffy

08-23-2006, 08:33 AM

You're a PhD??? Wow. I look up to PhDs. Considering it takes about 7 years for a PhD... Wow.

T_E
Unfortunately I didn't discover ballroom until my PhD, too late to make a serious dent in the dance world :(

I guess it's different in the UK, after a Bachelors (3-4yrs) you can take a masters 1-2yrs, and/or a PhD. A PhD by non dancers take a minimum of 3 yrs. A PhD by dancers takes considerably longer.... The vast majority of good dancers on the student circuit are PhD students in non art subjects, and many of them do PhDs to carry on dancing on the student circuit!

DWise1

08-23-2006, 09:38 AM

Um...I'm not too sure about this. With the caveat that I wasn't an engineering major, liberal arts can be plenty highly demanding and rigorous and nontrivial (lots of thanks for that generalization) with plenty of difficult subjects (more thanks), depending on various factors. The school, the professors, the concentrations, and not least of all, the student. While I'm not going to contradict your experiences, I'll just point out that I don't think it's particularly fair or valid to characterize all liberal arts as, essentially, easy fluff. Or those who majored in a liberal arts subject as less intellectually rigorus, or with less fortitude. You find all types.

Certainly liberal arts can be demanding and nontrivial. Tons of reading and memorization of facts and concepts and analysis thereof as well as interpretation in addition to the interpretations given by experts in the field. And it has its own amount of rigor, though there's also a lot of latitude to be had if you make a unique interpretation contrary to the others' but can make a good case for it. And in many of the classes, the work is to attend the lectures, do your reading, take two exams, and write a research paper.

OTOH, in engineering the rigor is based on the laws of the physical universe, written in the language of mathematics, and with no latitude allowed for you to come up with your own unique answer no matter how convincing-sounding a case you can try to make for it. And you have this kind of homework almost every single night from all your classes, while you are carrying about 21 semester units every semester (while the other full-time students are carrying from 12 to 18 units).

One engineer who described this to me told of the other students going off and having a social life while he had his homework. I also remember a EE class where the prof had a schedule conflict with the regularly scheduled exam, so he put it to a class vote whether we would take the mid-term exam sooner or later. Everyone voted for sooner, so that they could get it out of the way and have more time to study for their other mid-terms. In every non-engineering class I've been in (which is a lot), the students had voted to put the exam off as long as possible.

PS
I had just jotted that down as I was about to rush out the door for my dermatologist appointment (ah, the skin-cancer joys of being a life-long California Celt!) and I thought further on the matter on the way over.

My experience is based on under-graduates. For graduate students in all fields, the workload and rigor increase. I remember one PhD (in a biological science, I believe) write on a forum that what a PhD mainly shows is that you can do tons and tons of work. So while the generalizations may hold for under-graduates (in general, of course, as there are undoubtedly many exceptions), it would appear that post-graduates are a different kind of beast.

Perhaps we should ask quixotedlm what he/she had meant in post #27 by "The liberal artsy types".

Twilight_Elena

08-23-2006, 09:47 AM

Unfortunately I didn't discover ballroom until my PhD, too late to make a serious dent in the dance world :(

I guess it's different in the UK, after a Bachelors (3-4yrs) you can take a masters 1-2yrs, and/or a PhD. A PhD by non dancers take a minimum of 3 yrs. A PhD by dancers takes considerably longer.... The vast majority of good dancers on the student circuit are PhD students in non art subjects, and many of them do PhDs to carry on dancing on the student circuit!

Don't tempt me.

T_E

tunape

08-23-2006, 10:19 AM

many of them do PhDs to carry on dancing on the student circuit!

Amen to that! now... just after those pesky quals, everything should be good. :D

Vin

08-23-2006, 10:39 AM

I agree with person who stated that tech-types are more apt to stick with something difficult. Tech types are used to
"I don't get it, but if I keep at it I can do it"

I think that mode of thought is very useful when learning to dance. I have seen liberal arts types with that same mode of thought as well, but just think it is more prevalent among tech types.

DWise1

08-23-2006, 11:10 AM

am going to let SD deal with you Dwise...

uh, oh

What did I do this time?

alemana

08-23-2006, 11:45 AM

.

Students in the technical fields have a more rigorous curriculum than the liberal arts types. Engineering students carry more than a full load and have nontrivial homework practically every night, so they develop the skills and the discipline to learn difficult subjects. Liberal arts types have far less opportunity to learn those skills (remember that I've been both, only the computer science curriculum, while challenging, was nowhere near what the engineering students had to deal with). So an engineer is far better equipped to stick with it and take it seriously than is a "liberal artsy type".

wow i must've been at the wrong school....

Another Elizabeth

08-23-2006, 12:22 PM

dh is waaaayy nerdly, with degrees in engineering and a J.D with patent law as the specialty...
Do I know you guys? I also have multiple degrees in engineering and a JD, and practice patent law.

delamusica

08-23-2006, 01:33 PM

And it has its own amount of rigor, though there's also a lot of latitude to be had if you make a unique interpretation contrary to the others' but can make a good case for it. . . OTOH, in engineering the rigor is based on the laws of the physical universe, written in the language of mathematics, and with no latitude allowed for you to come up with your own unique answer no matter how convincing-sounding a case you can try to make for it.

This just makes it painfully obvious that you have no idea how difficult it is to do good work in the liberal arts. It is not allowed to have a unique idea that can be defended - it is demanded. I cannot tell you how many sleepless nights I spend staring at the blinking computer cursor trying to come up with a thesis, and how many papers have been returned to me with a barely passing grade because despite my best efforts I didn't say anything new.

To imply that all you have to do to succeed in the liberal arts is to make a "convincing-sounding case" is incredibly condescending. Are you basing all of your opinions on some kind of freshman-level English 100 survey??

Can you be original and insightful on demand? That is a skill that requires a huge knowledge of theory and a huge background in a huge breadth of literatures, technical and otherwise. And not only to be original, but to find an original interpretation that can be supported by sound literary and cultural theory, as well as history, is a daunting task.

And you have this kind of homework almost every single night from all your classes, while you are carrying about 21 semester units every semester (while the other full-time students are carrying from 12 to 18 units).

One engineer who described this to me told of the other students going off and having a social life while he had his homework. I also remember a EE class where the prof had a schedule conflict with the regularly scheduled exam, so he put it to a class vote whether we would take the mid-term exam sooner or later. Everyone voted for sooner, so that they could get it out of the way and have more time to study for their other mid-terms.

The entire school of music at my undergrad university did finals the week before the rest of the school so that we could focus entirely on them. As a student in the performing arts, you are expected to practice 4-6 hours every day. Then do homework. And yeah - lots of us had 18+ credit hours/semester.

They had to install extra security on the fine arts building at my school because people were breaking in at all hours to do work.

Honestly, your attitude towards liberal arts students is completely elitist and obnoxious. It has about as much truth as the idea that most engineers have poor social skills and couldn't write a gramatically correct sentence if their lives depended on it.

delamusica

08-23-2006, 01:42 PM

And by the way, yesterday afternoon I spent 3 hours working on 2 measures of music - 13 notes. That's typical for a musician.

I get frustrated almost to the point of quitting about twice a week.

Us artsy folk have a much better work ethic than most people realize.

wyllo

08-23-2006, 01:49 PM

delamusica

08-23-2006, 01:51 PM

The problem is that you all make it look too easy when you perform. :D

Well, we'll see about that at my audition on Sunday. ;)

tunape

08-23-2006, 02:09 PM

This just makes it painfully obvious that you have no idea how difficult it is to do good work in the liberal arts. It is not allowed to have a unique idea that can be defended - it is demanded. I cannot tell you how many sleepless nights I spend staring at the blinking computer cursor trying to come up with a thesis, and how many papers have been returned to me with a barely passing grade because despite my best efforts I didn't say anything new.

Having previously trained in science/engineering, and now moving on to a social science(not quite art), I can definitely relate to the pressure and pains to achieve uniqueness and creativity! Despite all the stereotype that it's "fluff", if you want to do "fluff" well, it's quite difficult since:

1) those who are serious(professors) have well trained fluff/BS detectors
2) all the easy fluff has been done since it was probably easy to do, so it was probably already done 70 years ago

you are constantly fighting the uniqueness effect and interesting/relevance effect IN ADDITION to being technically proficient.

like yourself, I've struggled with numerous papers and courses where I sweat day and night over it, only to get an "effort" grade barely enough for passing. In retrospect, science/engineering was SOO much easier - change a parameter here, a order of magnitude there, and voila! It's tempting to revert, but, like in dancing, I dance not because I am a world champion at it, but because of the challenge.

DWise1

08-23-2006, 02:35 PM

delamusica, as I have already stated (post #23), I have been in both camps. For the first seven years of college, I was first a liberal arts major and then a German major, while also studying seven other languages plus history plus music, all above and beyond graduation requirements. My first two degrees are a BA German and an AS Liberal Arts.

My switch to the techie side came when I married and enlisted in the Air Force as an Electronic Computer Systems Repairman. While on active duty, my next four years of college were in computer science and math, plus physics and some EE courses "for fun". I got my BS Computer Science and BA Applied Math out of that period and have been working as a software engineer ever since my discharge from active duty.

So how can you have the audacity to call me an elitist?

I do not and I have not belittled the humanities. Glass-bead gaming can be very demanding, both on the player and on the observors, and demands a broad knowledge base of both, but it's a qualitatively different task than solving real-world technical problems. To succeed, a glass-bead game need only pass inspection, whereas a real-world technical solution must actually work. Of course, we could quibble over which is more difficult, satisfying university profs or the laws of nature, and I believe that you would probably win that argument.

Back to learning to dance, which is what we are discussing. In the beginning it's mostly about developing basic technique. That is the type of problem that techies know how to solve; trying to come up with your own unique methods, ie trying to glass-bead it, will not work at all well here. However, later when enough technique has been learned to enable you to be competent, then that is where interpretation and inventiveness comes into play. As tangotime said in post #36:

Know this, for fact-- luv teaching you guys !!--You seem to grasp concepts far more easily than most if not all, aesthetics seem to be somewhat more of a challenge but analytically, -- go to the head of the class .

Also remember that I did not come up with this geek-vs-"liberal artsy types" dichotomy. Nor even with that wording itself (I trust that you've noted that I place it in quotation marks, meaning that I am quoting somebody else there):
I think the ["tech nerd"] stereotype is so wrong. Most of the dancers, at least in the ballroom and salsa world around here, are deep into some kind of technology or academic pursuit.

The liberal artsy types show up more often, impromptu, for beginners lessons etc. They surely find it easier to just 'give it a whirl'. But fewer of them seem to take it seriously and survive longer.

What I have been offering has been analysis for a possible explanation of what he states he has observed. As I said in post # 48, we should ask quixotedlm what he means by "The liberal artsy types". So if you object to his observation, why don't you go and ask him about it and call him an "elitist"?

delamusica

08-23-2006, 02:55 PM

I never disagreed about anything having to do with dance. I took offense at the wording in your posts that students in liberal arts disciplines are less motivated and do less work than students in technical studies.

(And before deciding to complete a BA in English and a BM in performance, I was majoring in physics, so I too have been in both camps.)

The parts of your posts that I didn't appreciate are clearly quoted in my previous post. Not about who's more likely to stay in dance, or who tangotime likes to teach - about the difficulty and legitimacy of the academics.

In your post above, you say that liberal arts consists of "glass-bead gaming" while technical pursuits deal with "real world problems." That is exactly the kind of comment that makes it seem that you don't place much value in liberal arts beyond that of some kind of diversion from "real life."

You may mean it differently, but I'm telling you that from across the computer screen, it sounds condescending.

DWise1

08-23-2006, 03:18 PM

delamusica, do you have any idea at all what "glass-bead gaming" is? Any inkling whatsoever?

It comes from Hermann Hesse's award-winning novel, Das Glasperlenspiel ("The Glass Bead Game"). Ever hear of it? Ever read it? Set some time in the future, the Glass Bead Game was the highest form of academic expression. It originated with musicians using wires and beads to quickly compose and change music and evolved into a complex set of symbols and symbol manipulation. It was no mere diversion from the real world, but rather the highest form of intellectual pursuit. The basic concept that the Game was based on was that everything, all knowledge, interrelates. I would commonly use that concept in college; when entirely new concepts were being presented, I would see that those concepts related in some way to something that I already knew.

The process that you described of coming up with a unique perspective in writing a thesis makes use of glass-bead gaming, as you draw upon your base of knowledge to find something or some fact or some concept that relates to what you are writing about. If you had had any familiarity with the Glass Bead Game you would have known that.

delamusica

08-23-2006, 03:21 PM

It's my favorite book.

It's also published as "Magister Ludi" in some earlier editions. You obviously don't recognize the quote in my sig line.

My point is that the liberal arts is not only a mental game, but has real merit in the real world. It can be abstract, but also has a concreteness to it. The concrete aspects of the liberal arts - history, grammar, linguistics, analytical theories, etc. are the foundation of the work and what make it valuable to the greater world. And I think it is the concrete aspect of the liberal arts that is often overlooked.

And again, my issue was that you wrote that liberal arts students don't work as hard as others. Which is wrong. That's all I was responding to.

yaniv

08-23-2006, 03:25 PM

I am a software engineer in the Bay Area. I think you will find a lot of people in Science, Engineering, Law, Medicine, etc. in the dance world, partially because many of them can actually afford dance lessons.

DWise1

08-23-2006, 03:32 PM

Oh, yes indeed I recognized the source of your quote. The novel follows the protagonist as he progresses from student to Master of the Game, which is rendered in Latin as "Magister Ludi". Bantam Book's translation published in the late 60's, the one that I had read, went by that title.

It was because of your signature that I made those references to the Game. And why I had expected you to understand those references, which you did not.

delamusica

08-23-2006, 03:34 PM

skwiggy

08-23-2006, 03:36 PM

I am not a tech nerd. But just about every regular dance partner I have ever had has been a physicist, engineer or mathematician. Coincidence? I think not.

cornutt

08-23-2006, 03:55 PM

<I'm sorry I started all this. I'm taking it down.>

alemana

08-23-2006, 04:06 PM

are you kidding me? you need to adjust your tinfoil hat. please point it away from D-F!

delamusica

08-23-2006, 04:13 PM

I agree with a lot of what you've said. I've been to many modern art museums that have the most ridiculous crap. That said, I've seen many moving and original works, too, although I'll be the first to tell you that I don't know squat about visual art. I like what I like. Someday I'd like to learn more about it, but that will have to wait for the time being.

Maybe I've just been lucky that I've ended up with great professors who wouldn't pass you for agreeing with the status quo and sliding by. Sure I saw those students my first couple of English courses, but there were none of them in my upper-level ones. Maybe my school was an exception. I don't know.

Of course every stereotype is based in some reality - they exist for a reason. There are many cs folk who are socially useless. There are many artists who do next to nothing. That doesn't mean that we should write off entire disciplines as being full of people who are that way.

I hate to go down this path because I really don't see it going anywhere, but I have seen many people who do great, insightful art (IMO) who are unable to get grants or get their art displayed. Just like there are many musically intelligent, creative, original bands who are unable to get signed. I wonder if the sad state of art has more to do with the state of artists or of the people who finance art?

Just a thought. I really don't know.

Chris Stratton

08-23-2006, 04:28 PM

Know this, for fact-- luv teaching you guys !!--You seem to grasp concepts far more easily than most if not all, aesthetics seem to be somewhat more of a challenge but analytically, -- go to the head of the class .

The aesthetics are pretty easy once you can see the underlying patterns - the curves and lines and all of those goals - once those are learned, good artistic decisions just seem to suggest themselves.

But a lot of the time the student is left to deducee those patterns from incidental clues - if they were literally described, they'd be picked up a lot faster. Think about trying to draw the human figure freehand, vs drawing with the aid of geometry-based proportioning rules. A few people can do it by eye, but anyone can learn to do it by procedure and from that perhaps develop their eye.

Something that's not uncommon with technical beginners in dancing is a lot of very precise questions, asked about things that aren't important. The student wants exact and literal answers, but doesn't yet know enough to ask the right questions. If the teacher can present a workable thought-model that is complete enough to be literally usefull (even if only a temporary stage) that can help the students start to figure out what questions are important.

DWise1

08-23-2006, 05:58 PM

Oy. I did understand. But you're missing my point.

Or else refusing to address it.

For the fourth time: the thing that upset me about your post was that you implied at some points and directly stated in others that liberal arts students are not hardworking and lack real-life problem-solving skills. I quoted them. I'll do it again if you want.

If you would like to address that, please do. Otherwise I don't really know what we're arguing about.

I don't get it. What was there for me to address? OK, I re-read and re-read what you quoted (post #55). What's your beef? What's causing you to flip out like this?

First:

And it has its own amount of rigor, though there's also a lot of latitude to be had if you make a unique interpretation contrary to the others' but can make a good case for it. . . OTOH, in engineering the rigor is based on the laws of the physical universe, written in the language of mathematics, and with no latitude allowed for you to come up with your own unique answer no matter how convincing-sounding a case you can try to make for it.
In your direct reply to that particular quote:
It is not allowed to have a unique idea that can be defended - it is demanded. I cannot tell you how many sleepless nights I spend staring at the blinking computer cursor trying to come up with a thesis, and how many papers have been returned to me with a barely passing grade because despite my best efforts I didn't say anything new.
You are agreeing with what I said and even carried it much further by stating that you are required to come up with a unique interpretation.

So what's making you so angry there? That I didn't go far enough in my statement?

And your subsequent complaint about that same quote:
To imply that all you have to do to succeed in the liberal arts is to make a "convincing-sounding case" is incredibly condescending. Are you basing all of your opinions on some kind of freshman-level English 100 survey??
I was implying no such thing. You are misinterpreting and putting words in my mouth. Please don't put words in someone else's mouth; you don't know where they've been.

Rigor is strictness, inflexibility, implying only one (or possibly a few at most) correct way in which to do something, or only one correct answer being possible. That is what I was talking about there!

Going back to the original (having had to deal with creationists for many years, I make it a habit to always compare their quotes with the original), I notice that you left this out (post #48):
Certainly liberal arts can be demanding and nontrivial. Tons of reading and memorization of facts and concepts and analysis thereof as well as interpretation in addition to the interpretations given by experts in the field.
So I was not implying that "all you have to do to succeed in the liberal arts is to make a 'convincing-sounding case'", but rather I was explicitly stating the contrary. Did you omit that sentence in order to make it appear that I was implying something that I was clearly not? I certainly hope not, because if I wanted that kind of abuse I'd go to a creation-science forum.

Also, I was responding to Peaches:
While I'm not going to contradict your experiences, I'll just point out that I don't think it's particularly fair or valid to characterize all liberal arts as, essentially, easy fluff. Or those who majored in a liberal arts subject as less intellectually rigorus, or with less fortitude. You find all types.
And in my response I was explicitly stating that I did not consider liberal arts to be easy fluff.

OABTW, my statements about latitude in interpretation were based largely on my experience in several lit courses, both German and English. But then you did slam me for being too conservative in that statement, didn't you?

Then the other passage you quoted:
And you have this kind of homework almost every single night from all your classes, while you are carrying about 21 semester units every semester (while the other full-time students are carrying from 12 to 18 units).

One engineer who described this to me told of the other students going off and having a social life while he had his homework. I also remember a EE class where the prof had a schedule conflict with the regularly scheduled exam, so he put it to a class vote whether we would take the mid-term exam sooner or later. Everyone voted for sooner, so that they could get it out of the way and have more time to study for their other mid-terms.
The second paragraph is just relating true stories. That is what that engineer told me about his life in college. No, I don't know what the other students' majors were. And I personally experienced that vote on when to reschedule the mid-term and I had seen several other similar votes, though always with the opposite outcome, in non-engineering classes. And the reason for why the engineering students had all voted to take the exam earlier was explained to me by one of my fellow students. So I am not expressing an opinion here, but just reporting the facts.

The first paragraph is from my own experience and from what I remember reading in university catalogs. Officially, you were limited to 18 units each semester, but engineering students were explicitly allowed to take 21 units and, when you looked at the curriculum posted in the School of Engineering section, the students' entire four years were mapped out with them taking a full 21 units every single semester.

So I was just making statements of fact in those two paragraphs. Though my "while the other full-time students are carrying from 12 to 18 units" had implicitly included performing music majors because I was not familiar enough with their programs to know to exclude them explicitly. Sorry, but I was quickly responding to a post while eating breakfast (no caffeine, BTW) and rushing to finish up so that I could dodge traffic across town to get to my dermatologist appointment to have checked the treatment of a particularly ugly skin pre-cancer on my shoulder. Under such circumstances, I believe it reasonable that my post would not especially carefully crafted nor thoroughly researched out, but rather would have had to rely on my memory and on stream-of-consciousness.

And you did set the record straight on the work-load of performing music majors.

So what are you so angry about?

delamusica

08-23-2006, 06:06 PM

First of all, I'm not flipping out. I'm sitting quite comfortably on my couch. There's no need to be getting all defensive because I disagreed with something you said.

All I'm going to say is that obviously things did not come across as you meant them, and that the tone that some of us read in your posts is not what was intended.

You can point out all the sentences you want - I was offended by what I read as a flippant tone.

I'm not going to continue arguing this as I don't think it will get anywhere. I am not interested in games of he said/she said.

DWise1

08-23-2006, 07:15 PM

fascination

08-23-2006, 07:18 PM

uh, oh

What did I do this time?
giggle...he has a ph.D in a liberal art....and I a master's....anyhow, it was a light hearted comment...but see what happens when I actually go off and dance?...you people all need a group margarita...now knock it off...:rolleyes:

fascination

08-23-2006, 07:19 PM

Do I know you guys? I also have multiple degrees in engineering and a JD, and practice patent law.well...we are in the midwest but he goes to seattle ALOT...can you say "uli's famous sausage"?...drool

Chris Stratton

08-23-2006, 08:16 PM

Well I went to engineering school, and all we did was party...

fascination

08-23-2006, 08:28 PM

yup...dh was in triangle fraternity (engineering frat)...and well, we have many incriminating pictures

cornutt

08-23-2006, 08:57 PM

Well I went to engineering school, and all we did was party...

What school was that? Jeez, I miss all the fun! ;)

DWise1

08-24-2006, 01:21 AM

giggle...he has a ph.D in a liberal art....and I a master's....anyhow, it was a light hearted comment...but see what happens when I actually go off and dance?...you people all need a group margarita...now knock it off...:rolleyes:

I never could understand why anyone would want to dilute tequila like that.

I'm gone.

SDsalsaguy

08-24-2006, 02:05 AM

giggle...he has a ph.D in a liberal art....
Social science actually... ;)

fascination

08-24-2006, 06:39 AM

sorry....at my school it fell into the Arts...so did sociology amazingly enough

fascination

08-24-2006, 06:40 AM

I never could understand why anyone would want to dilute tequila like that.

I'm gone.
I hope you're not gone permanently ...:confused:

Peaches

08-24-2006, 06:43 AM

Did somebody say margarita? Where? I'm so there.

...

I'm still looking.

...

*stomp* Not fair to mention margaritas and then not deliver.

Peaches

08-24-2006, 06:45 AM

IIRC, and that's a huge "if", didn't music used to be considered as a math?

I know where I went to school it had been considered as a foreign language--at least up until the catalog before mine.

fascination

08-24-2006, 06:55 AM

Did somebody say margarita? Where? I'm so there.

...

I'm still looking.

...

*stomp* Not fair to mention margaritas and then not deliver.my god woman, it is 8am where you are;) ...hotlanta oct 17-22

Peaches

08-24-2006, 06:59 AM

Not quite 8am. What's your point?

;-)

fascination

08-24-2006, 07:13 AM

I just love you peaches

Peaches

08-24-2006, 07:22 AM

Yeah, yeah, love love...

You're not wiggling out of group margaritas.

Peaches

08-24-2006, 07:24 AM

Oh, and another thing...

Can you think of a BETTER way of starting the day? (OK. Forget I asked that question, of course you can. We all can.)

To rephrase, margaritas sound like a wonderful way to start the day. Other options notwithstanding.

fascination

08-24-2006, 07:27 AM

:cool: not one that I can post, but it does involve a nerd:cool:

fascination

08-24-2006, 07:28 AM

interesting how you deflected that compliment...I've got your number missy...and I TOLD you...hotlanta

Peaches

08-24-2006, 07:35 AM

:cool: not one that I can post, but it does involve a nerd:cool:

Yeah, I figured. :cool: Hence, the question retraction.

Peaches

08-24-2006, 07:38 AM

interesting how you deflected that compliment...I've got your number missy...and I TOLD you...hotlanta

Compliment deflection is a particular skill of mine. I don't got lots of skills, so I value the ones I do have. lol. Besides, it never ocurred to me that it was a compliment, as such.

And your Hotlanta comment just clicked with me on my way to go find caffeine. See? No thinking happens w/o caffeine, at least for me. (ooh, note to self, post on gratitude thread.)

fascination

08-24-2006, 07:42 AM

at the rate I am going I won't make it to that thread til noon...lordy it a busy posting day

Peaches

08-24-2006, 07:45 AM

Anyway. To somewhat un-hijack this thread, I've got something of a humorous statement regarding engineer-types and dancing.

In a basic, beginner, social foxtrot class we were being taught turning rock steps. Mostly as something for the guys to lead instead of a basic while they think of things to lead, also as a way to navigate corners as a last resort, that sort of thing. So, there was this one guy who was a tech-ish kind of guy.

He asked about how many degrees of rotation should they be trying to achieve on each rock, or, what should the total amount of rotation be for all of the rocks done. He was confused, b/c the different times the teacher had demonstrated it there were different amounts of rotation. Teacher tried explaining that it could and would vary based on the situation. Tech guy couldn't get it--he just so incredibly hung up on wanting a number. He was asking for clarification about how much should he increase/decrease the rotation if there wre other people around.

It was kind of funny, and kind of cute. I'd never thought about something like that--I'd always thought about it as, turn enough, and rock enough times, to accomplish what you want to accomplish.

Different minds...

tangotime

08-24-2006, 07:48 AM

argentine_princess

08-24-2006, 07:50 AM

I have a BSc in Biochemistry and Toxicology and my partner has a PhD in Astrophysics and works as an IT consultant - I guess that qualifies us both as nerds / geeks !!!
I found certainly on the UK university circuit that the majority of dancers are studying science,maths, engineering type subjects and many of them at PhD level.
I'm not really quite sure why!! My partner has to learn everything we do with mathematical precision working out exactly which muscles are making which part of him do what and why, and then calculate the exact forces and momentums which he needs to exert on me in order to lead. It drives me up the wall as I work much more to avoid any more maths in my dancing and just be creative and expressive!! It works for him though (if confusing our coach out of her mind).
We're both perfectionists though, something I think driven from a need for precision in science based subjects and that gets us a long way when practicing and training!
Yay for geeks!

Peaches

08-24-2006, 08:05 AM

If doing Standard, you surely do need to know the difference between a quarter and three eights . Ive always believed that dance in its very raw form ( direction, rotation ) is a mathematical exercise put to music, and for all you scientific types,add kinetic energy . Which goes to my previous post about tech. people .Had a strange thought-- wasn,t da Vinci a scientist as well as an artist ?-- he probably would have made a great dancer !!

I can see needing to know the difference b/t a quarter and 3/8 turn for standard. This wasn't standard, and it certainly wasn't a quarter or 3/8 turn. This was a straight up slow-slow-side-together, BASIC social foxtrot.

The guys kept getting stuck in corners of the room, despite talking about/showing/attempted teaching how to curve the basic along the line of dance. So, we were shown a basic, turning rock-step as a way to deal.

I believe DaVinci did have scientific leanings, but I never paid that much attention to history.

tangotime

08-24-2006, 08:46 AM

Had to use that before someone else did ( sorry ! couldn,t resist) had a nasa scientist , who could not understand why the curve in tango to the left, was still considered moving along or down the side of dance ,his linear thinking , I guess, would not allow that premise, but gradually began to make sense .( Maybe I should have talked in parabolics ? ) Which raises a q for all of you in that area of expertise ( tech types )---- Once having mastered the tech. aspect of a movement, do you find it easier to express the artistic side ,as in letting the " natural feel " of the movement take over, or do you apply the same approach , that is,, disection ?. Have asked this to my many tech,s over the yrs and had varying responses .

delamusica

08-24-2006, 08:49 AM

Schools do funny things with categorizing their departments . . . my last university was trying to have fewer colleges, so they ended up putting the philosophy department under the school of business (the philosophy people loved that . . .) and some other equally strange things.

And I'm with you, Peaches.

Fascination owes margaritas. (And that seems like a perfectly good way to start a morning to me - think of it like a breakfast smoothie, only better!) :)

fascination

08-24-2006, 08:52 AM

well, there IS the whole lime juice thing goin on there...

but yea...I was stunned that my undergrad degree was a BA rather than a BS..especially because at some of their secondary campuses they were listing it as a BS...oh well, whatever...just a piece of paper now

cornutt

08-24-2006, 10:15 AM

He asked about how many degrees of rotation should they be trying to achieve on each rock...

Myself and another engineer at our studio like to tease the instructor during group classes, thus: Whenever he says something like "this is a 3/8 turn", we ask "What is that in radians?" :D

fascination

08-24-2006, 10:18 AM

I just like listening to alain doucet say "rotation"...that french R...yum...hopelessly NOT a nerd

sweavo

08-24-2006, 10:18 AM

Who here on this forum is a tech nerd?

Guilty! Degree in Software Engineering, work as software guy. I used to dance as a kid and I've always loved it. Got into salsa when I realised I wasn't gonna meet chicks through juggling, which had been what formerly passed for a social life :-)

sweavo

08-24-2006, 10:39 AM

Which raises a q for all of you in that area of expertise ( tech types )---- Once having mastered the tech. aspect of a movement, do you find it easier to express the artistic side ,as in letting the " natural feel " of the movement take over, or do you apply the same approach , that is,, disection ?. Have asked this to my many tech,s over the yrs and had varying responses .

Yeah I'd think you would get varying responses. My mental approach is vague and holistic, which makes my chosen profession a bit more of a challenge for me since I have to force myself to dissect and focus sometimes. But I have an enquiring mind for cause and effect, which I think is how I got into juggling and in turn that informed my leading (guiding while maintaining equilbrium). I think some techs will never 'reduce' their dancing to a holistic whole, but always dissect and analyse. To some, a perfectly constant speed or perfectly straight line or perfect arc are far more beautiful than the vagaries of musical interpretation!

I remember once consciously setting my furniture asymmetrically to balance my living room and all my tech buddies wanted to straighten it. The parallel lines carried a greater weight than the aesthetic whole.

sweavo

08-24-2006, 10:40 AM

la morena

08-24-2006, 10:50 AM

Myself and another engineer at our studio like to tease the instructor during group classes, thus: Whenever he says something like "this is a 3/8 turn", we ask "What is that in radians?" :D

The other day, our teacher was explaining in a group class about the waltz natural turn - 3/8 clockwise for the first 3 steps and then for the next 3. I ask 'So that's 270 degrees in total?' and received the blankest look I have ever seen!

xanthdancer

08-24-2006, 09:57 PM

i="My degree is in Computer Science. I am a UNIX system administrator by profession. However, a dancer by heart. I always have loved the feel and the movement of dance. The one place I can be at home with myself." Now, please do the following program...
echo "${i}" >/dev/null

Honest, I'm not a geek/nerd.

Terpsichorean Clod

09-03-2006, 01:20 AM

musicchica86

09-03-2006, 01:24 AM

I work in the actuarial field. I prefer to identify as a geek rather than a nerd. :D I came over to ballroom dancing from English country dancing. Here's a cool link to an article about modeling contra dancing with mathematical matrices.

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20030308/mathtrek.asp
Ow. Brain cramp.

I don't know how you people can think like that...it makes my head spin.:rolleyes: Give me the music industry any day over stuff like that...oy.

reb

09-03-2006, 03:23 AM

Terpsichorean Clod

09-03-2006, 08:05 PM

Ow. Brain cramp.

I don't know how you people can think like that...it makes my head spin.:rolleyes: Give me the music industry any day over stuff like that...oy.
Dealing with human people is too scary...that is, until they can be reduced to nice, nonthreatening little elements in a matrix! :D

Medira

09-05-2006, 08:46 AM

Terpsichorean Clod

10-29-2006, 01:14 AM

Found an old San Francisco Chronicle article in which Diane Jarmolow makes a very brief statement on the abundance of engineers in attendance at the Metronome: "Right now, we have a lot of engineers, for some reason." :shock: "For some reason"?! It's not like it's a bad thing to have engineers in dance classes. :D
http://www.teachballroomdancing.com/news_sfchronicle_041302.html

star_gazer

10-29-2006, 10:30 AM

Last week I dreamt I was coding a foxtrot in PLSQL. Now if I could just remember how I did it...

Twilight_Elena

10-29-2006, 10:50 AM

Last week I dreamt I was coding a foxtrot in PLSQL. Now if I could just remember how I did it...

I hope you are of the open source code philosophy, because I'd like to see that code myself.

T_E