World Salsa Federation Controversy

[pygmalion]

I found a couple interesting articles on salsapower.com that bear some discussion. Apparently, there's a fair amount of controversy over World Salsa Championships. Does anyone have more info on this, or care to comment? I have posted links to two opposing points of view. Take a look.

Argument http://www.salsapower.com/editorials/wsf.htm

Rebttal http://www.salsapower.com/editorials/wsf_altman.htm

[DanceMentor]

This is a very interesting story. I know Isaac personally, and I have been around people who have expressed concern over his methods. I have definitely heard him curse on a microphone, and I did find it odd at the time, since there were children present, but I didn't try to make a big deal out of it. I also remember a couple of people saying that Isaac told them the event he was holding would be far bigger than it ended up being. Isaac is definitely a controversial figure in the Salsa World. Is he all bad? Or does he have some good qualities that people are overlooking? Is there some place on the internet that is full of WSF supporters?

[youngsta]

Well I'll just say I definitely don't agree with his ideas on shaping the salsa world. I disagree so much that I didn't attend any of the events he and his wife attended when they were here in Denver at the beginning of the month.

[SDsalsaguy]

Anyone who tells you that all you need to do is 'listen to them' is the last person you should be listening too. Period.

[pygmalion]

Personal pecadilloes (and cursing) aside, what do you think of the idea of introducing a formalized syllabus for salsa? (Don't forget -- I'm not taking a position, just asking a question!)

[salsarhythms]

NEXT IDEA PLEASE

:D

I hate it...

[borikensalsero]

Honestly? Salsa isn't like Ford Motor Company where you put it on a assembly line and end up with a bunch of Pancake like cars. It is a thing of beauty, one that isn't achieved from the moves but from the soul. A syllabus will deny creativity, limit feeling the music (not physically feeling the bang bang bang of the one-ness of the instuments, but feeling beyond physical measures), It will hinder its growth, it will give power to the egos who think of themselves bigger than the music, etc...

It is saddening enough as it is to go out and see everyone look the same minus a few details, just imagine how it will be when we are told that it has to be done this way and and only this way... The lack luster instuctors are to blame, not the student, then it will be the syllabus... That will be end of soul depth love and the birth of salsa communism... While excelent in theory awful in practice. Have we failed to notice that humans strive to be themselves/unique? Oooops, too bad that people are too willing to follow for fear of hurting an ego... God, did I ever get off topic here.

Must say that although I know nothing about ballroom salsa, it might just help there.

[DanceMentor]

At the very least, you need to recognize the many different styles of Salsa, because the moves are quite different in Rueda, Palladium, LA Style, etc.

Maybe Isaac should just call what he is doing "Ballroom Salsa".

[SDsalsaguy]

Any attempt to standardize salsa – be it in ballroom studios or local salsa enclaves – is entirely in the dark regarding salsa. Sure, teaching can use a set syllabus, but that is an instructional device, not some canonical manifesto. The very idea that there should be a standardized salsa syllabus reeks of sterility and the idea what one can be certified by sending in a videotape of one’s dancing reduces art to, at best, mere production.

[salsachinita]

It is saddening enough as it is to go out and see everyone look the same minus a few details, just imagine how it will be when we are told that it has to be done this way and and only this way... The lack luster instuctors are to blame, not the student, then it will be the syllabus... That will be end of soul depth love and the birth of salsa communism... While excelent in theory awful in practice. Have we failed to notice that humans strive to be themselves/unique? Oooops, too bad that people are too willing to follow for fear of hurting an ego... God, did I ever get off topic here.

Not at all, Boriken!

I've been thinking about much the same issues. Ballroom Salsa aside, most of the 'elite SALSA studios' are churning out students by the dozens onto the dance floor doing exactly what they've learnt in class (AND dance with the same people from the same group, ALL the time), you can play 'Spot the Studio' every night you see them out there :roll: !

What happened to the 'sabor' we grew up with.....? Are the techniques and 'styling' taking over and stopping people new to the scene about absorbing the true heart & soul of this lifestyle (I see salsa as more than a dance)?

[pygmalion]

And that's why I asked the question. When you hear true salseros/salseras talk, it's about feeling the music. But the salsa students I've come into contact with, are learning the same stuff, and look pretty cookie-cutter uniform to me. That looks like a syllabus, to me. How does one develop a unique style? Or is that another of those things from the past?

[salsachinita]

How does one develop a unique style? Or is that another of those things from the past?

I've been thinking about this one a lot. The salsa scene had gone through so much changes over the years, I'm really not sure how to answer this question.

But I can tell you what I've been telling the newbies. I've been telling them (if anyone is willing to listen) how WE began dancing.

We meet & dance with EVERYONE.

We respect the Latinos from the old country, for without them there wouldn't even have been a salsa scene in the first place.

We learn form them, not just the dance, but the music, history, lifestyle, food etc. We form bonds with each other, turning up to house parties/BBQ, and jam (grabbing ANYTHING to bang along!) in the street/beach.

Then we DANCE. Knowing that we all share the same love for this lifestyle.

We are one. We are la familia.

Where do we go from now....? Well, I tell everybody to start talking/dancing & break the clique.

That is the start. Ultimately I want people to experience what I had been fortunate enough to have experience......

Salsa is NOT a 'elite' cookie cutter style dance. It is a lifestyle.

[youngsta]

And that's why I asked the question. When you hear true salseros/salseras talk, it's about feeling the music. But the salsa students I've come into contact with, are learning the same stuff, and look pretty cookie-cutter uniform to me. That looks like a syllabus, to me. How does one develop a unique style? Or is that another of those things from the past?
Make it yours. It's one thing to learn a pattern (doesn't matter where you learn it from), it's a whole different thing to take what you learned and make it fit your personal dance style. What I hear alot is "I love what you did, but that doesn't look like what we learned." Yeah it was what we learned...I just did it with my my flava (and I'm not talking about technique here). It's so *******ing to see the different interpretations of simples moves (say a cbl).

[Sagitta]

Well, one thing that I can say is that I respect my dance teacher, Nedim Catal, on this issue. He always emphasizes that he is simply giving us, the students, the tools/technique etc for salsa. Just tonight he said that there are two groups: those that simply repeat the moves that they know and have learnt, and those that dance to the music; and that the difference is easy to see. That while he teaches moves he cannot teach us how to dance to the music. That comes from within each of us. For instance, Nedim showed a combination, then showed a couple different ways that the combination could be executed, doing the same steps but moving the body differently, exhorting us to find what we like of the combination, take ownership of the moves and move our body according to what the music is telling us. The other night he also said that we all start by imitating the style of others, such as us, his students, imitating him, but that we need to develop our own style over time.

As for learning how the music moves you/to feel the music I guess I'm getting some of that just by immersing myself in the music. Sometimes just dancing to the music without paying attention to steps and moves... Also, having dance teachers that show how individuality can be developed is also useful. It shows that as long as certain elements remain the same the rest can be changes to suit your personality and the music. Often when learning it can be daunting to know which is which. :) Hope that this make sense!! :)

[peachexploration]

...Yeah it was what we learned...I just did it with my my flava (and I'm not talking about technique here). It's so *******ing to see the different interpretations of simples moves (say a cbl).

Well said youngsta! I did that in class one day while I was is in "Rebel Against the Cookie Cutter" mode (I hear 'ya pygmalion :wink: :D) and I felt much better. My teacher tweaked my technique but my own interpretation (flava) felt much comfortable for me. I wish more instructors will encourage it. It is very easy to get stuck in someone else's style that is not your own if you're not careful. The idea of sterilizing salsa really scares me. JMO :roll:

[DanceMentor]

Here is a more in depth interview with Henry Herrera of Salsa Racing:
http://www.salsaracing.com/interviews.asp

It's a very interesting story about how the blame for Henry losing might have been because of the Red Bull corporate sponsor.

There seems to have been several issues with "qualified judges".

Does anyone know just who these judges for the championships were?
I don't know the individual that was the Red Bull corporate sponsor, but, on the surface, this doesn't sound like a "qualified judge" to me.

[borikensalsero]

And that's why I asked the question. When you hear true salseros/salseras talk, it's about feeling the music. But the salsa students I've come into contact with, are learning the same stuff, and look pretty cookie-cutter uniform to me. That looks like a syllabus, to me. How does one develop a unique style? Or is that another of those things from the past?

Developing unique style.... Expressing my feelings to dancers I seem to be left out in an island for I think differently about dancing salsa than many.

My answer to this question is one hard to implement for those who see dollar sings and not the striking beauty of an illuminated soul during a dance. Most people want to learn a few moves and become over-night successes. Even some don’t really have it in them to take it to the next level, they just wanna have fun. Nothing wrong with that either… Due to it many dance studios teach steps and patterns but never really teach students how to feel the music and move the body. Yes, we will all develop our own styles in due time, but never-the-less there will be those who already at the beginning have far greater flava than many. That includes the accomplished, showy dancers, as well as the instructor. But why? What is it that separates the flavourful, from the flavourless? How can an instructor teach yungsta a move and have him make it look totally different?

A simple answer is the mind, when you dance with the mind there is no time for flava, but when you feel with the soul all that will ever come out is flava. Why? because there is no ego in the soul, there is no next pattern, there is no next step, there is only a display of what the soul feels by the body. Feeling with the soul causes those faceless feelings to transform into what many call FLAVA.

My answers usually falls with, don't teach students patterns at the beginning, teach them the music, then teach them how the body moves within the music, then tell them; I'm not here to teach but guide you to dance. Yes, I will eventually show you patterns and steps, but what I will do is guide you to your innerself, your inner dancer, that little drummer who wants to jam-away with the band but it doesn't know how to come out. I'll take you to him, and you do the rest. You will not dance because I'm teaching you but because you were taken to the water-well and decided to drink from it. Then and only then can you dance as to who you are and not what I am.

The implications of my words will cause student body to lessen for the simple reason that we want things yesterday. We give up true gratification of a long seldom-traveled road to dance self-discovery, with immediate gratification and a lack luster philosophy of dancing. Now we see dancers who have every move in the book yet there is absolutely no flava to their dancing. I ask, is a flava that is a mimic of someone else’s flava truly yours? Or have you mistakenly borrowed a flava and believed it to be so yours just because you’ve being copying from day one that the difference between someone else’s dancing and yours is none? The addition of moves, patters, styling of someone else to your repertoire should never be confused with your own flava.

[salsarhythms]

Ok, this is a touchy subject so here goes.

#1. I completely, 100% disagree with "standardizing"
salsa. I understand the reasoning behind what the WSF
is trying to do. Basically, if a standards body is in place
it will help to promote it at some level.

Maybe this is ok in a Junior Olympics type of setting, but
me personally, I really could care less about that. Watering
the music down to a mere production and a standard way
of doing things is just not my thing.

I personally don't like the mission of WSF, but hey, they
can do what they like and in the long run, it will be up to the
public to decide if they want to go that route.

I hope it never happens, but I can't control the will of the masses
if it so happens that this is what they want.

Standardization of anything is just not feasible in many cases.

In the 1990's corporate america was on a mission to standardize,
to make everything as cookie cutter as possible...

I was at the fore-front of that movement. I worked at the time,
for what was then known as Compaq Services. We had just
landed the biggest outsourcing/standardization project in the
history of the United States. The project was for Smith Barney
and then everyone got on the bandwagon.

Morgan Stanley, Citicorp, Travelers...every major corporation
wanted it...

Guess what...

It failed miserably.

Now, you may think that corporate america and salsa dancing
have nothing in common, but...

...both corporate culture and salsa dancing are entities that
continue to evolve, trying to standardize something that continues
to grow and breath is impossible.

Eventually, it will break free from the chains of standardization.

Like I said, these are complex subjects, but in the end, the
public will decide, and I for one will have my money on salsa
not being standardized...

[pygmalion]

I hear what you're saying, salsarhythms. I'm really not sure where I stand on this, though. Having been "born and raised" so to speak, in the ballroom world, learning"salsa", I got a nasty awakening when I first went out into the real salsa world. That standardized stuff just didn't work in the real world. I looked and felt like a total idiot.

On the other hand, a large and powerful organization with the name SALSA on the side could help promote the dance genre, but at what cost? Watering the dance down? And for whose benefit? The guys and girls in Miami or LA or wherever may or may not have a clue WSF exists, but they still can dance their butts off. And who is WSF, or any other group, to mandate what they do?


And is it really possible to codify and encapsulate a dance "of the people" such as salsa? Okay waltz, you can contain, because for the most part, it's not a widespread social dance anymore. Lots of people do it, but they are largely learning it from formalized dance studios. But waltz, if I remember my dance history correctly (correct me here, d nice) went through quite a bit of evolution back in the nineteenth century, when everybody was doing it. Even waltz would have been hard to codify and "syllabize" (not a word. I know) back then.

Salsa right now is alive and breathing. In my mind, the best you can hope to do is capture a snapshot.

Oh yeah, and I have one small problem with your argument that the public will decide about salsa. There are two "publics" at least in my mind. The public out in the clubs, dancing. And the big-buck-paying public in dance studios, where this formalized salsa is taught. A lot of the people in the studios have NO CLUE that what they're being taught bears little resemblance to salsa in the real world. So how can they make an informed choice, when in many cases, they're insulated from reality by people who gain financially by keeping them in the dark? :x :?: (ooh. Sorry. My franchise experiences are coming bak to haunt me.)

I have more to say, (incidentally, on the opposite side of the argument! :shock: This is complicated. :lol: ) but I'll do it later in the thread. 8)

[salsarhythms]

By me using the word "public" I mean the people...

The "market" if you will.

Just like a companys launching a new product, that product's
success or failure will ultimately depend on where the market
or the public decides to go.

Sure you will have people learning in studios, which is good
because you do need some sort of structure to teach, but the
bottom line is that the people that are out there at the clubs
are the ones supporting these same clubs.

Without them, you don't have anyone else.

I don't care if you're the greatest promoter that ever lived, if
the "market" that you are targeting does not want what you
have to offer, they just won't be there.

Salsa is what it is because the people have embraced it.

Yes, you need promoters, organizations, and others to spread
the word, but really the biggest promotion of all is word of mouth.

When was the last time you checked out a restaurant, or a club, or
a bar solely on the word of a critic?

Now, when was the last time you checked out a restaurant, or a club
or a bar based on what a friend tells you?

For anything to have success the general public, or "market" has
to embrace it and has to want it.

It all depends on who you are targeting...

What's good for one group of people, won't be good for another
group of people...

And the general public that does go dancing does not want (at least
for now anyway) a "standard" cookie-cutter way of doing things.

Where's the fun in that?

What'll happen if you try to standardize hip-hop, or pop culture...

There is no standard, it's just whatever evolves.

[salsachinita]

Boriken & SalsaRhythms........I LOOOOOVE reading your posts!
:notworth: :notworth: :notworth:

[brujo]

I've been thinking about this one a lot. The salsa scene had gone through so much changes over the years, I'm really not sure how to answer this question.

But I can tell you what I've been telling the newbies. I've been telling them (if anyone is willing to listen) how WE began dancing.

We meet & dance with EVERYONE.

We respect the Latinos from the old country, for without them there wouldn't even have been a salsa scene in the first place.

We learn form them, not just the dance, but the music, history, lifestyle, food etc. We form bonds with each other, turning up to house parties/BBQ, and jam (grabbing ANYTHING to bang along!) in the street/beach.

Then we DANCE. Knowing that we all share the same love for this lifestyle.

We are one. We are la familia.

Where do we go from now....? Well, I tell everybody to start talking/dancing & break the clique.

That is the start. Ultimately I want people to experience what I had been fortunate enough to have experience......

Salsa is NOT a 'elite' cookie cutter style dance. It is a lifestyle.

Joder, do people live in a perfect world or what?

People don't go to salsa classes to learn to dance to the music or to get rhythm and flava. People want to learn salsa like they learn karate, do patterns, repeat moves, rinse, repeat. Eventually you'll get good and all the girlies will go 'oOOOH aahhhh'.

If it is all about flava, there would be no dance schools. Latinos don't walk around the street going 'Hmmm, I wonder if Jose down the street has studio hours open?'. You go to a party, the songs speak to you, you shake your hips like your grandma did, and boom, a dancer is born. When dancing has been there all your life, flava is kinda there. You don't teach passion, you don't teach flava. How the hell do you even teach flava? Do you move grown adults to Cuba and deprive them of TV so all they do is have sun and dance? Do you make them watch re-runs of 'El Chapulin Colorado' and then force them to move to a country where they are treated like garbage so they can relate to Hector Lavoe?

Bla bla bla. You can clean up salsa and whitewash it all you want. Truth is, studios make money because they are shortcuts to a cultural experience. Isaac Altman is no different. Spanish culture is hot today, it's exotic. Wow, you actually like your family? Wow, you mean your grandma worships Santa Barbara, who is really an African God in disguise? And you see this really warm, friendly environment in a cold, individualistic and materialistic society and you want to embrace it. The studios just sell this promise.

You can argue about flava and dance school clones all you want. Do you dance in a slot? Do you do cross-body leads? Do you know how to find the one count in the song? Then you have already lost the flava battle.

Most latin clubs on my neck of the woods exists because that's where all the drug deals used to happen. And the latin nights? A way to get the money off the drunks who come and watch the girlies in the clubs.

Joe from Colombia dances diferently from Raul from Cuba. You can't really learn to dance in NY the same way you can learn to dance in Puerto Rico. But they dance that way because they didn't go through the studio shortcut, that is the way the people around them danced all their lives. You go to cuba and ask people to do shines and they'll all do it the same way. A bunch of people agreed on how to interpret the music and boom, there you go.

Why do you make it sound like salsa is this pure, holy thing? It's just a way of shaking your ass. Everyone is trying to be rich and get laid. Codify and encapsulate salsa, you mean, like the way Eddie Torres did? Where he grabbed moves danced on clubs, gave them names and then started teaching moves. Or the way Eric Freeman is making up names for casino moves so he can put them in front of videos? Isaac Altman is just not cool because he is not a well known name in the salsa world, but I bet that if it was Edie The Salsa Freak, Josie Neglia, Ismael Otero and all the salsa gods who came up with the suggestion, most people will go, hey, that's a great idea!

[SDsalsaguy]

Brujo, I think your way off base. Quite frankly, to say:

Do you dance in a slot? Do you do cross-body leads? Do you know how to find the one count in the song? Then you have already lost the flava battle.
is a load of crap! If you want to say “can you not do a cross body lead?” or “do you only dance to counts?”, well, that’s another story. Such questions basically highlight that there’s an intrinsic sterility involved if you can only dance in one way. But to say that being able to do a cross body lead or being able to “find the one” are problematic, in themselves, is nonsensical in the extreme! These, like anything else, are tools. If you want to say you can generate all the sabor in the world without such elements, well then I agree whole-heartedly. Saying that one cannot have sabor with these elements, however, is ludicrous. It’s what you do with them that matters.

I also disagree with your take on Isaac Altman vs. Edie The Salsa Freak, Josie Neglia, and Ismael Otero, etc. If you don’t like them, there styles, or what they teach, well that’s your opinion and you’re as entitled to it as I am to mine. But I do think there are fundamental differences between these people and Isaac. While each of these others has a particular style which they prefer and try to spread, each is also well versed in other styles and tend to appreciate each style in it’s own right. I guarantee you that Edie, Josie, and Ismael are never going to tell some Puerto Rican grand parents that they’re dancing “wrong.” And it is in this same vein that none of these individuals have ever tried to push for a standardization of salsa despite there own preferences, opinions, teaching, and video tapes. All such instructors seem to have a genuine respect for salsa, in all its varieties, which Isaac is sorely lacking.

End.

[HothouseSalsero]

Brujo, I don't think the division between street dancers and school taught dancers is as sharp as you make it sound. To take an example: I met a guy from Venezuela who taught me a very basic combination. He said that at home his friends and family get him to teach them dance steps. My point is that there are always going to be a few people around who are especially good dancers. Others will go to them for lessons of one sort or another, and if that's not possible, they will often try to imitate them.

In this book I have been reading, City of Musical Memory, it mentions that the dancing in Hollywood movies (especially Fred Astaire) made a big impression on Colombian dancers, and one of the dancers in Cali who is widely considered to be among the best (by locals) says that he got a lot of his ideas from Fred Astaire.

[brujo]

Boriken and Salsarhythms seem to imply that an unique personal style "FLAVA" should be taught by the studios. I am saying that studios, at least in the United States, Canada and western countries, are shortcuts to the whole cultural experience of Latin America.

As such, they teach basics. By encouraging people to figure out by themselves, they get bad habits from the beginning. Most people I know that have never taken lessons will hit the clubs and freeze on the dance floor, or just do the back and forth basic when the first start up. They are basically paying the studio to help them go past this stage where they can at least start to do the same patterns, even repeatedly. I think this is where the whole 'Dance Pattern Machines' debate start up.

After a while, once dancing to the music comes naturally and one doesn't worry anymore about their basic steps, then all the styling elements can be added and improvised. If you encourage development of style over technique at the beginning, you end up with a mediocre latin american dancer ( rough lead | bad floor skill ).

Dance studios are not big in Latin America because people don't have the disposable income to go and learn to dance. They learn to dance in the clubs, in the bars, in the streets. In Cuba, it's like TV. The dance culture is just different in North America and it's clones. And this whole magical 'FLAVA' thing is a bunch of crap too. I think most people learn the vanilla pattern whether it is a cross body lead or a hammerlock or a enziguri back-kick and perfect it. After they do, they find variations to it and play with it, but the basic, vanilla, plain pattern is always there.

[HothouseSalsero]

Brujo, I was reading your comments out of the full context of the discussion, then, because I agree with most of what you said in your last post (I think). (I'm at work and reading lazily, so I might turn around later, re-read, and disagree again on closer inspection.)

[brujo]

I guarantee you that Edie, Josie, and Ismael are never going to tell some Puerto Rican grand parents that they’re dancing “wrong.” And it is in this same vein that none of these individuals have ever tried to push for a standardization of salsa despite there own preferences, opinions, teaching, and video tapes. All such instructors seem to have a genuine respect for salsa, in all its varieties, which Isaac is sorely lacking.


They won't necessarily say that they are dancing wrong, but they will give them a ton of advice in regards to technique and execution. Just like Edie encouraging this whole Millenium style, or the NY dancers saying that on2 is better. These are all artificial restrictions and essencially rules that are imposed on those who learn from them and teach from their styles. If you take a series of classes with them, you will never learn to dance like the Puerto Rican grandma. Is there a basic salsa curriculla? maybe not by committe, but if you go to new york, you need to learn that the dance is done in a slot, how to execute a cross-body lead, what the basic step looks like. Is this a bad thing? No, it will give whoever doesn't dance salsa enough confidence to hit the clubs after a few months and not feel like an idiot on the dance floor.

End?

[DanceMentor]

They won't necessarily say that they are dancing wrong, but they will give them a ton of advice in regards to technique and execution. Just like Edie encouraging this whole Millenium style, or the NY dancers saying that on2 is better.

Good point, Brujo. It's not that one particular person or style is wrong.

Personally, I think Salsa is more than one dance. It's a family of dances that are related. Rueda is not on2 is not LA is not Peurto Rican Grandma style.

The differences between the different styles of salsa are so striking that you can't just say, "...and one Ring to rule them all." (Lord of the Rings analogy). And there are people who would sooner throw that ring right back into the fire pit of Mordor! :lol:

[Sagitta]

I agree that studios are a useful stepping stone to learning salsa for many. However, probably because I learnt from a street dance instructor, he doesn't pretend that he's teaching me street salsa, salsa with FLAVA. He clearly says he's teaching technique, patterns, and giving us some hints how to develop our own style. I am fortunate in that respect. :) I personnaly haven't ever experienced the ballroom style vs the club style clash. I actually have seen people suffering from it though!!

However, I see the utility of having another way of popularizing salsa, through having a standardized syllabus. (I don't personally think I would ever take a ballroom salsa class, but that's me.) In NYC I've heard stories about the on1 and on2 cliques who think that the other doesn't know how to dance salsa, are not willing to dance with them...These are street dancers who refuse to respect other styles. Similarly the idea of having ballroom type salsa is fine with me as long as it does not pretend to be social salsa, the salsa of the streets. Ballroom waltz, foxtrot, swing, jive, samba, cha cha, mambo... are different animals from their social/street versions.

Let's take waltz, for instance, ballroom waltz, to explore this issue further. I have learnt quite a few versions of waltz, both from here and from other countries throughout the world. But we accept that when we learn ballroom waltz there are two styles that are used in competition. This does dilute the vitality of the many other varieties/styles, but it allows for everyone to have the exact same standards on which to be judged on, rather then having to also take into account different salsa styles.

[salsachinita]

I do see where your points are coming from, Brujo.

As such, they teach basics. By encouraging people to figure out by themselves, they get bad habits from the beginning. Most people I know that have never taken lessons will hit the clubs and freeze on the dance floor, or just do the back and forth basic when the first start up. They are basically paying the studio to help them go past this stage where they can at least start to do the same patterns, even repeatedly. I think this is where the whole 'Dance Pattern Machines' debate start up...

The studios exist as a 'short cut' to the Latin American dance culture. Very true. And why shouldn't they exist...? Not everybody would have the opportunities to be exposed/in contact with the people who grew up with THAT culture. Some second/third generation of Latinos in the Western countries may not know any more than their Anglo neighbours....so they also benefit from the studios.

The whole point that Boriken & salsaRhythms made is that one needs to find their unique style, instead of 'parrot-phrasing' everything that's been taught to them. Afterall, salsa is a street dance, it's s'posed to evolve.

After a while, once dancing to the music comes naturally and one doesn't worry anymore about their basic steps, then all the styling elements can be added and improvised. If you encourage development of style over technique at the beginning, you end up with a mediocre latin american dancer ( rough lead | bad floor skill )...

That is PRECISELY why I believe that techniques & personal styles are equally as important as each other. I've come across too many of those 'mediocre latin american dancers' who believe themselves to represent the 'true Latino styles' (these are the people that would make comments such as: ".....they look flash out there, but they take classes." Like it's a bad thing)

That is why I encourage people to talk and dance with each other. Share experiences/knowledge/passion. The segregation doesn't do anybody any good; especially when we all to share the same form of social past time.

Dance studios are not big in Latin America because people don't have the disposable income to go and learn to dance. They learn to dance in the clubs, in the bars, in the streets. In Cuba, it's like TV. The dance culture is just different in North America and it's clones..

Exactly. That's why we end up with so many 'cookie-cutter' dancers out there (AND each city seems to have their own version, depending on which studios dominate)! These clones may not even be aware that they lack anything, thus perfectly dancing away happily (nothing wrong with that either). It only becomes problematic when people get self-righteous and start telling others that "we are right, you are wrong".

Since salsa dancing is a social thing, shared by thousands across the globe, we have a HUGE opportunity to learn from each other. No, the world is NOT perfect, and nobody said so. but this is the only world we got, why can't we make a little difference everyday to JUST make it THAT little bit better......? Why do we go salsa dancing...? Because we want to ENJOY ourselves, make contacts with others, BE THERE.

*that's why I love salsa dancing globally, or hosting salsa visitors :D . If each city makes their own kinda 'cookie' wouldn't it be a lot more fun to mix all the different kinds of 'cookies' into a 'big cookie jar' :wink:? Wouldn't life be more interesting :lol: ?*

[salsarhythms]

When have I ever implied such a thing Brujo?

If you were at all familiar with me and what/how I teach
(you're obviously not), you'd know that the last thing I
do is say that any "flava" would come from a studio or
another person for that matter.

In an earlier post I was very specific in saying that the
fundamentals are needed, either through an instructor
that is paid, or a friend, relative or whatever.

After that, you have to make it yours and whatever
flava comes from that has to come from you.

It could be E. Torres, or Edie, or anyone, if they came up
to me with the stupidity of a World standard and that I have
to go to them to be certified, they'd be treated with the same
animosity as Mr. Isaac Altman.

In fact, people like Eddie Torres, or Edie always stress the
importance of making the music your own, and evolving it
on your own. That's very different from the stance of I.
Altman.

Are they shortcuts, sure, that's what this country is all about,
faster, easier, so you pay for it.

And I don't care what you or anyone else says for that matter,
New York is where this whole thing started. Was it here before?
Sure it was, but it was in the streets of New York that it has
become what it has.

It has evolved from there because people make it their own and
have included their own flava...but I for one, have never said
or even implied that this is the purpose for a studio.

[brujo]

When have I ever implied such a thing Brujo?

(snip)

It has evolved from there because people make it their own and
have included their own flava...but I for one, have never said
or even implied that this is the purpose for a studio.

My bad, I read back to the posts and I think I attributed a statement made by Boriken back to you. Sorry about that, Fernando. This was not a personal attack.

[salsarhythms]

You know Brujo, I should apologize as well.

I love your comments because you always point out things
that others are sometimes hesitant to bring out.

I didn't take it as a personal attack at all, just wanted to
clear that up...

But I too apologize for being so hasty...

[borikensalsero]

Ping pong, ping pong...

Ok, can I for one, say something in a few words... Hmmm

Brujo, all music follows a pattern, hence their dance will follow a pattern. Everything in this world pretty much follows a pattern. Even the left must go in front of the right or viceversa to walk. Even then we don't say, hey we all walk the same because we follow the same patterns, a la flava.

Patterns, style, foot work aren't the same as flava. If that were the case, I wouldn't say we need flava. Because a person learned in the street, doesn't mean they have any flava either. Nor would I say that a person who has been listening to salsa all their life has flava. I know cubans, domincans, ricans, colombians, who have never taken a class, dance salsa and couldn't look more lifeless.

By flava I mean, teach someone how to get in touch with his or her inner dancer. Teach them how to move the body not as you would, but as they themselves would. We teach patterns, we teach steps, we teach style, yet many move the same. The good ole' "guess the school" game. Why? Because they were never taught to let loose and move that body as their innerself would. Not me, not Fernando, but Brujo. We can spend the rest of our lives dancing and if we can never get in touch with our inner dancers, we'll always be flavaless. The dancer will always dance from the head, and the head is all about limits, correctness, and rationale.

What good is it to teach my kid to run, if he doesn't even know how to walk? That is what I mean by teaching patterns and steps instead of getting to know your inner dancer. I know how to drive a car I just don't know which is the gas pedal, the clutch or the brake. That is what I mean! What good is it to drive if you don’t know when to use the gas, brake, nor clutch? To you my version would result in bad dancers because they wouldn't be as prominent with steps, or patterns. Yet, those dancers would be on beat, moving to the music as the music calls for, as one, and with personal styles (flava), which they developed from their innerself, yet all look different doing the same movements and dancing to the same songs. How would their lead be? Going to a school and learning steps doesn't equal to a good lead, nor great followers. That comes from experience, so with experience these guys will be as good as the next. We aren't robots, we are all different, so shouldn’t we all display the true US on the dancefloor?

To me dancers have to be strong solo dancers, this isn't tango. This is salsa, salsa is about the mating ritual, making each other know that you two are one even when you are apart. Not by control but by movement, call and response, catering to each other's needs. When you come together it is to bring dancers for the physical part of foreplay. Not the wam bam thank you ma'am thing. It is about LOVE & PASSION Brujo, it isn't about girls, it isn't about who is looking at you, it isn't about patterns/moves, it isn't about partying, it isn’t stepping. It is about LOVE, it is a lifestyle where salsa is your world and your mate the subject of all interactions within that world and its love. And that is where flava comes in. I wanna see your true self out there. Not a short version of your instructor. I wanna see you. I don't want to see how many patterns you can pull-off in a 3 minute song. I don't want to see how close you can get to that hottie in the short skirt. I don't want to see how many lucky nights you get in a week. I don't want to see how much you know. I don’t want to see who is looking at you. I wanna see you and her. I want to see you two become one and display the love salseros share as it makes you display it. It is a lifestyle Brujo, a lifestyle, it is nothing less... The many that never achieve that understanding speak of LIKING, speak of girls, speak of the same, those who do, speak of soul/flava and love.

Our views are from different perspectives and why you have written what you have, and I what I have.

[SDsalsaguy]

Boriken . . . :notworth: :notworth: :notworth:

[borikensalsero]

Boriken . . . :notworth: :notworth: :notworth:

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: I'm feeling bashful right about now. Thank you SD.

[salsachinita]

Boriken . . . :notworth: :notworth: :notworth:

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: I'm feeling bashful right about now. Thank you SD.

Plz don't be.........I am still waiting for that book of yours to come out ! AND I'd love to have my copy signed :wink: .....!

:notworth: :notworth: :notworth:

*still waiting for that dance...*

[peachexploration]

Plz don't be.........I am still waiting for that book of yours to come out ! AND I'd love to have my copy signed :wink: .....!

:notworth: :notworth: :notworth:

Me too!!!!

[jenibelle]

Me three, Boriken!
What do you do to help people bring out their "inner dancer?"
That's what's missing in me!

Jeni 8)

[Sagitta]

Relax. Stop thinking. Let your body move naturally. It's like meditating...or that's what it is for me when I get there, when I do. :)

[vey]

Me four, Boriken!

I seriously think I'm going to print out your posts and re-read them for inspiration before going dancing or practicing. :idea:

And Jeni has a great question "What do you do to help people bring out their "inner dancer?" And I might add: what do you do to help people bring out their "inner dancer" in public? (I seem to be able to get in touch with mine occasionally while dancing by myself in the kitchen :) but with people around, I often "freeze") :(

And a bit more "on-topic": for learning salsa basics vs. being born into salsa debate, I feel it may be somewhat similar with playing musical instruments - some people learn by ear, often as little kids, others learn later and have to start with basics, learn how to read sheet music etc., in both cases they can become great musicians.

[borikensalsero]

Has anyone of you guys as teenagers been talking to the one person whose mere presence makes you blush, but you have managed to keep a straight face. Until your parents show up and say what you believe to be the most embarrassing thing to say in front of that person? Remember our reactions, the redness of the face, the heat felt in the ears, the mouth dropping so fast it seems to freeze the moment in time and engrave it into our memories. That is how I feel from reading your words. Red, happy, astonished and overwhelmed with all of your comments. THANK YOU GUYS SO VERY MUCH!!

[borikensalsero]

Me three, Boriken!
What do you do to help people bring out their "inner dancer?"
That's what's missing in me!

Jeni 8)

It is well hidden Jeni. It is well hidden. As Sagitta mentions, you must not think.

I have an out line as to what it is that I eventually want to teach my students. It starts out with something like this in their first class. I dim the lights, I grab selected CDs, not just any songs but selected songs. The songs that say we are all about passion. I will sit with my students in a circle and ask them what they feel. I’ll go from song to song and ask them what they feel. Then I’ll get up and I’ll dance with my partner a snip of what it makes me feel. I’ll hope to lead them into knowing that my heart and soul are dancing, not my head.

Then… I’ll ask YOU to go home, lie in bed, close your eyes and play music, any music you absolutely love. Not just love, but you really really really love, even if it isn’t salsa, but I suggest it be salsa. Concentrate on your body and the music. Listen to the music and feel how the body reacts, feel your heart, your hands, your stomach, your throat, the feet, …how you being to make facial expressions... Feel the blood rushing through your veins. Don’t jump out and try to move right away, but keep feeling the music and your body, when you feel your body is just about to burst where you can’t contain the feeling anymore start moving slowly. Don’t bust out going nuts dancing, have self-control, let the music and your emotions caress every once of your body. Really feel it. You are going to feel it so deep that you’ll stop feeling that you are in bed, and will feel your soul. It is peaking out at the music; you have bypassed the physical world and allowed your soul to react for you. If you wish not to move, then don’t, let the passion consume you, as if it was meditation, but instead of quietness consuming you, it will be the feeling of passion. The more in tune you become with your feelings, the easier it will be to get there next time. Once you have felt the passion of love from your soul, your body will seek it time and time again. Every time you hear a passion-drenched song, it will cause your body to seek more satisfaction and it will attempt to bring you to that once felt spot. It is like being held by the love of your life, you seek it every time and no matter how many times you have it, you want it again.

If you know of someone who is passionate when they dance, try to feel them. Feel your connection, feel when they touch you. If you are in synch with your body you will feel his/her passion overcoming you. Don’t fight it. go with it. Don’t think about who is around you, you’ll fail to see the cloud-walking trip he/she is just about to gift you with. With someone who is passionate is easier to get there. There is double the energy and you won’t feel as shy to do it in front of people. If you laugh at what is going on, don’t pay attention to your partner, you are thinking and your head won’t let you get there. It is all in the head, the more you think, the more walls you will build, the more reasons you want for not understanding what is going on. Remember that most use the mind as a wall and not a tool of understanding, hence, why some people don’t feel like they should feel emotions.

If you think, you won’t get there. If you deem it foolish, you are thinking. Just don’t try at all, let it come on its own, to some it comes slower than others. Remember to never try to get there, you don’t know the way there, so why are you going to try to get there. However, your soul knows, so when your body is good and ready it will open the gates to a passionate soul, which will yield the inner dancer you knew you had but didn’t know how to meet. Rome wasn’t build in a day, neither will your feeling for the music. You want to feel with your soul, not follow the few that feel the 4 count and say, Yes, I feel the beat.

Now, this is just how I choose to do it. Because it works for me it doesn’t mean it will work for you. But chances are that if you are willing to listen to your soul, you’ll find that this form of music-meditation will give a world that not many have experienced and from the bed it will travel to the dance-floor.

[borikensalsero]

And I might add: what do you do to help people bring out their "inner dancer" in public?

I’d suggest you get a helpmate, he who is nothing but passionate about dancing. He who is willing to hold you by the hand and let you know not to be afraid, you are not alone, I am here with you and for you. And… Follow him. Concentrate on solely the music, your body and his lead. If you are able to solely concentrate on those 3 things, you will not see/feel/hear anyone around you but the 2 of you. Then, you can start little by little allowing the inner dancer to come out. Don’t bust out at once and go nuts, again, it is about self control, hopefully one day when you won’t notice that the inner dancer has been out for quite a while.

Remember that only you can allow yourself not to be shy. All the help in the world won’t get you there if you don’t desire it. It is up to you and only you, everyone else can only point in direction. You must walk the walk and you must not think it, but feel… It won’t be an over night success, it will take time, but if you stop thinking it will make the road that much easier.

[borikensalsero]

Boriken . . . :notworth: :notworth: :notworth:

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: I'm feeling bashful right about now. Thank you SD.

Plz don't be.........I am still waiting for that book of yours to come out ! AND I'd love to have my copy signed :wink: .....!

:notworth: :notworth: :notworth:

*still waiting for that dance...*

My John Hancock will surely find its way to your copy. :D :D

[vey]

Thank you Boriken.

May all the gods of salsa be with you...

[salsachinita]

Once you have felt the passion of love from your soul, your body will seek it time and time again. Every time you hear a passion-drenched song, it will cause your body to seek more satisfaction and it will attempt to bring you to that once felt spot. It is like being held by the love of your life, you seek it every time and no matter how many times you have it, you want it again.

Boriken.......you have no idea how much I needed to hear that today!

:notworth: Thankyou :notworth:

*if only I could explain in words how close these words of yours came to touching my soul.......*

[jenibelle]

Boriken:

:notworth: :notworth: :kissme:

I am surprised/amazed/pleased that you wrote all that! I can't believe it!
It was exactly the advice I needed to hear. You couldn't have hit closer to the target.

Man...you really write from the heart! Don't mind if I look to you when I need inspiration.

Jeni :D :D

[borikensalsero]

Once you have felt the passion of love from your soul, your body will seek it time and time again. Every time you hear a passion-drenched song, it will cause your body to seek more satisfaction and it will attempt to bring you to that once felt spot. It is like being held by the love of your life, you seek it every time and no matter how many times you have it, you want it again.

Boriken.......you have no idea how much I needed to hear that today!

:notworth: Thankyou :notworth:

*if only I could explain in words how close these words of yours came to touching my soul.......*

I'm happy to hear that I was able to help even if it is from miles away. From time to time we all need a lift. It is great to hear that my writting had something to do with your brighter day. :D :D [**HUG**]

[borikensalsero]

Boriken:

:notworth: :notworth: :kissme:

I am surprised/amazed/pleased that you wrote all that! I can't believe it!
It was exactly the advice I needed to hear. You couldn't have hit closer to the target.

Man...you really write from the heart! Don't mind if I look to you when I need inspiration.

Jeni :D :D

By all means Jeni. I am here to share all of me with you guys. Whether it be a cry on the shoulder, a kick on the butt, or simply to inspire during the not so sassy times.

[borikensalsero]

Thank you Boriken.

May all the gods of salsa be with you...


AMEN to that...

[DancingMommy]

At the very least, you need to recognize the many different styles of Salsa, because the moves are quite different in Rueda, Palladium, LA Style, etc.

Maybe Isaac should just call what he is doing "Ballroom Salsa".

I'll take some "Salsa con Ballroom" por favor.....

I think any time a dance is taught in a certain way by an indivdual, it has been syllabized (even though unofficially). There'ws a quote from "Strictly Ballroom" that basically runs to the effect that if you can't explain what it is you're doing to someone, then it isn't a teachable pattern. And thus invalid as a dance "move" if your intent is to pass it on for posterity.

I don't believe that codifying a dance removes all chances for creativity or re-interpretation. I believe that it offers a framework of reference and a place to start for beginners.

[SDsalsaguy]

I just wanted to pint out that, despite the original article's linking of Isaac witht the ballroom scene, the NDCA (the National Dance Council of America) has cut all ties with him!

[IsaacAltman]

I am happy that I have generated 4 pages of copy. Now take a step into the future: Coming in January 2004, the WSF Television Network. WSF Web Site (edited by moderator) Now is a chance to hear and see it from me personally. News, editorials, events, and much more.


Just a note, the NDCA cut off ties with the AAU, not Isaac Altman (hahahaha). Get the real story at WSF web site (Edited by moderator)

(Isaac, if you're going to post here, at least make a contribution,
this is not your personal promotion forum...your post has been edited
as such.)

[IsaacAltman]

As a footnote, look who started this old news. Pyg.....from Fla. Maybe he/she should reveal who they are if they have the guts. Alterier motives? The WSF thinks so. Here is an open invitation for Pyg..... to go on WSF TV and and give the Salsa World your opinion and your image! You can do it face to face with me. What do you say Pyg.....? Do you have the ca.........?

[salsarhythms]

Come on Isaac, you're not a dumb guy, why don't you stick
to the topic. If you read the posts you'll see that most of the
conversation did not revolve around you, but of the mission
of WSF...here's your chance, let us know your stance without
being vague and pointing us to some web site.

I for one would really like to hear your side with no accusations
or insults, just the straight story, from your mouth...nothing more
nothing less.

[pygmalion]

As a footnote, look who started this old news. Pyg.....from Fla. Maybe he/she should reveal who they are if they have the guts. Alterier motives? The WSF thinks so. Here is an open invitation for Pyg..... to go on WSF TV and and give the Salsa World your opinion and your image! You can do it face to face with me. What do you say Pyg.....? Do you have the ca.........?

It's pygmalion, or Jennifer, Isaac. And sorry to disappoint you, but look around. I generate between twenty and twenty-five percent of the new topics in dance forums. No ulterior motives with this topic at all. My MO with this topic was the same as all the others -- search the web, find a topic of interest, post and let DF members discuss and draw their own conclusions. I actually think this topic generated some interesting and positive discussion on many facets of the issue. You're certainly welcome to join in. 8)

[IsaacAltman]

Well Jennifer, how about taking up my offer and going on WSF TV?

[salsarhythms]

Are you really in such desperate need for attention that all
you can do is mention your web site? Come on, Isaac, it's
pretty lame. Answer the questions here and now, don't
put it off.

You know what, don't answer the questions, I'll let your
silence be an indication of who you really are.

[IsaacAltman]

Fernando, you know better than to think I am the silent type :wink: Unfortunately the rest of these people don't know about our private emails back and forth. I hope people see through you and know that your provocation is nothing more than selling this forum. :lol: Maybe we are doing the same thing? Hmm......................

[salsarhythms]

Our private emails are telling you the same thing, to put it out
here in the forum if you want, but yet you insist on going to
some web site rather than here.

That really says a lot about you...

I can post the private emails here if you'd like.

[IsaacAltman]

By the way, Fernando, your signature does give your website which is just one BIG commercial. It pays to post heh?

[salsarhythms]

Hey no apologies from me there, the thing you don't realize though
is how much contribution I've given of myself to the forums, and to
everyone else that I come in contact with...

Would you like a listing so that perhaps you can educate yourself in some
small way?

[salsarhythms]

Oh and since you brought up the private emails between us,
did you forget that I told you it was ok to have your site in
your signature?

[IsaacAltman]

Yes, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Be careful not to cook your goose. Contribute in a positive manner and I am sure things will be better for you this Christmas Day.

[salsarhythms]

Likewise my dear Isaac, likewise...

Look around Isaac, all you do is posts ads, do a search
for my posts, let's see what you come up with.

[pygmalion]

There is one additional way you can advertise your product or service. You are welcome to place a link in your signature. To do this, click on "profile" at the top of the page. Please limit the link to 25 characters. Please do not use graphic links. One great thing about this is the more you post, the more exposure you get.


Just for the record, Isaac, every Dance Forums member has the option of posting a website in their signature. You're welcome to avail yourself of this, if you wish. But links to commercial sites are not okay. Dance forums is here for serious discussion of dance related topics, not for sales or promotion of products, services or organizations. And, as Fernando suggested, there are a few loose ends in the WSF thread. This is a great opportunity to educate us all on the value of your organzation.

[IsaacAltman]

Look Fernando, I am not disputing you contribute more here than I do, but you must admit, there are its advantages when you are selling somthing and your website is underneath your name. When I am selling something, there is no mistake about it. Contributing can be done in many ways. I am discovering new ways all the time.

[salsarhythms]

Isaac, the world revolves around give and take.

I give, and I take, just like everyone else, I've never
said anything to the contrary.

In fact in a thread earlier I was very much against what
everyone else was saying about pricing...to me you get
what you pay for.

It's not about you selling something, it's about this thread.

This thread is about WSF, not Isaac.

So since you represent WSF, either say your piece or move on,
that's it.

[DanceMentor]

As I will continue to emphasize, we just can't advertise other sites here. If you have something to say, say it here.

It does seem that we have some people who disagree with the WSF. Hopefully, the WSF can find a way to change the opinion of these people by listening to their problems and trying to bring about an environment conducive to the opinions of others.

For example, organizations like the NDCA or the ISTD are governing bodies that are composed of many people who make decisions as a group. I'm not so sure the WSF is working under the same framework. Rather, it seems to be composed mostly of Isaac and Laura.

I think that Isaac and Laura may me trying to attract others, but it doesn't seem that they have found a way to bring people together. That means that they have little, if any, sort of governing body.

In order to create a large salsa organization, one would think that you would need to include some of the most respected names from New York, LA, Peurto Rico and other places. The WSF just doesn't have that going for it at this point, as far as I know.

Yes, they have successfully brought people from many places to their events. But they have not successfully formed a governing body.

To add to their problems there seems to have been some occurences that others felt were problematic. Examples include the cursing at the events, the question surrounding the "World Champion" title that Isaac and Laura give as a credential, and the questions surrounding the policies about judging.

Hopefully, the WSF will learn from their mistakes and improve their organization. Personally, I think the greatest weakness is in placing all of the decision making in only one or two people's control.

This is one of the reasons the Dance Forums is popular: because it is not run by any one person. There are aat least 10 moderators. We have a special forum just for discussing growth and issues that arise. We also listen to the opinions and suggestions of our members.

I wonder what the WSF is doing to listen? I wonder what process they are using to make decisions?

[IsaacAltman]

I guess you're the BOSS here.

[DanceMentor]

It seem you have missed the point.

I can say without hesitation, the moderators as a group make decisions here...not me as an individual.

If anything, SDsalsaguy has a broader role in the monitoring and editing of posts.

My role is more focused on the tech side.

Are you wanting to discuss the policies of the dance forums as a model for your organization?

Or are you wanting to address the questions posed by members?

[salsarhythms]

LOL Isaac,

Why can't you address the issue instead of concentrating on
side issues?

Like I told you in our email, I respect the fact that you don't try
to hide behind a web site, but for crying out loud, just respond
to the issues.

This thread was not about attacking WSF, it's about understanding
it, and yet you really haven't done anything to help in understanding
it.

[DanceMentor]

This thread was not about attacking WSF, it's about understanding
it, and yet you really haven't done anything to help in understanding
it.

Agreed. Even now, it seems you are taking a defensive posture, rather than trying to befriend us (thus increasing the size and influence of the WSF).

Why not try to help people to understand how you want to help the salsa community and especially how you are trying to resolve the issues that concern people the most about your organization?

I just don't see how attacking people is going to benefit you. Better just to let this thread die.

[IsaacAltman]

I wish all the people on this Forum a Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, and a very healthy and happy New Year. May all your dreams come true, and may we be living in Peace in 2004!

[salsarhythms]

Thank you for your kind words Isaac, you too have a very
happy holidays.

[SDsalsaguy]

I wish all the people on this Forum a Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, and a very healthy and happy New Year. May all your dreams come true, and may we be living in Peace in 2004!
This, Isaac, is something I agree with whole-heartedly! Happiest of holidays and peace to all!

[DanceMentor]

That's the spirit, Isaac!
Best wishes to you and your family this holiday season.

Without the slightest bit of sarcasm, I truly wish you a wonderful year and hope you will grow and prosper in a genuinely meaningful way in 2004. :D

[IsaacAltman]

Thanks. I have posted a topic "ASK THE CEO OF THE WORLD SALSA FEDERATION" in order to help the Salsa community understand the WSF. I would like to reach out and answer some of the concerns and questions that one might have about the WSF. I would like to encourage some feedback in order to improve understanding about the WSF and to improve relationships with those who may not agree with the WSF concepts.

Happy New Year!