My Tango sucks.

[aaah]

Please help!
Over the last two years I’ve learned some basics in about 15 dances. Argentine tango remains my most troublesome. And least enjoyable.

I took a 6-7 lessons a year ago, tryed a milonga or two , felt nothing and quit. Happy to just do a basic tango walk when a tango comes on at the socials.
Now I’m making another foray into AT. Bought an expensive AT DVD, took a few more lessons and still s**k at it!
Last night at a milonga I was often thanked at the end of the first song in the tanda. Why can’t I enjoy this dance the way you can with just a few swing lessons or cha cha or hustle. The pleasure of this dance still eludes me.

Can someone please advise me. I’m thinking of quiting this dance again. My main complaints are:

Followers instruct me
Followers get frustrated
Followers start doing things that I am not leading
I feel like I’m just walking around the floor all worried and not feeling any passion
I don’t feel the pleasure of dancing this.**Can someone give me advise on how to enjoy this dance at least uitil I can **get better.

Maybe I should just focus on a simple walk? Is there a mind set to have to feel some passion when doing AT?

Thanks

[Zaratustra shaking it]

Please help!
Over the last two years I’ve learned some basics in about 15 dances. Argentine tango remains my most troublesome. And least enjoyable.

I took a 6-7 lessons a year ago, tryed a milonga or two , felt nothing and quit. Happy to just do a basic tango walk when a tango comes on at the socials.
Now I’m making another foray into AT. Bought an expensive AT DVD, took a few more lessons and still s**k at it!
Last night at a milonga I was often thanked at the end of the first song in the tanda. Why can’t I enjoy this dance the way you can with just a few swing lessons or cha cha or hustle. The pleasure of this dance still eludes me.

Can someone please advise me. I’m thinking of quiting this dance again. My main complaints are:

Followers instruct me
Followers get frustrated
Followers start doing things that I am not leading
I feel like I’m just walking around the floor all worried and not feeling any passion
I don’t feel the pleasure of dancing this.**Can someone give me advise on how to enjoy this dance at least uitil I can **get better.

Maybe I should just focus on a simple walk? Is there a mind set to have to feel some passion when doing AT?

Thanks




Maybe you need to take more classes before you start dancing socially... Its a difficult dance (for me) and It took me some time to start dancing with the music and in a suitable way... So, I would say, keep the classes, practice at home and Listen for what your partners have to say (thats the BEST -by far- way to learn)

[newbie]

Poor aaah !

A.T. is not as symmetrical as the other dances as for the respective work to learn it. In most dances there is a basic step or basic rythm or basic sequence, and the follower learns it too and then she does not need to be guided for every step, guiding one step out of six is often enough.
In A.T there is no basic and you have to guide any step, if you stop guiding the woman stops dancing.

So it's more difficult to learn for a leader. One argentine teacher said seven years for a leader, one afternoon for a follower.

Now my humble opinion on your detailed points:
1) and 2) Followers have the same problem with leaders. They get instructed and frustrated by their leaders.
3) You may actually be leading something without knowing it.
4) Passion is supposed to be between you and the music, not between you and the partner.
5) cf 4)

[bordertangoman]

Please help!
Over the last two years I’ve learned some basics in about 15 dances. Argentine tango remains my most troublesome. And least enjoyable.

I took a 6-7 lessons a year ago, tryed a milonga or two , felt nothing and quit. Happy to just do a basic tango walk when a tango comes on at the socials.
Now I’m making another foray into AT. Bought an expensive AT DVD, took a few more lessons and still s**k at it!
Last night at a milonga I was often thanked at the end of the first song in the tanda. Why can’t I enjoy this dance the way you can with just a few swing lessons or cha cha or hustle. The pleasure of this dance still eludes me.

Can someone please advise me. I’m thinking of quiting this dance again. My main complaints are:

Followers instruct me
Followers get frustrated
Followers start doing things that I am not leading
I feel like I’m just walking around the floor all worried and not feeling any passion
I don’t feel the pleasure of dancing this.**Can someone give me advise on how to enjoy this dance at least uitil I can **get better.

Maybe I should just focus on a simple walk? Is there a mind set to have to feel some passion when doing AT?

Thanks




My teachers were having this experience with their novice students who were trying to dance before they were ready, having a lousy time and then leaving because of this bad experience. So they stopped beginners dancing at milongas until they had at least 3 months experience.

You can put the passion in only when leading becomes second nature.

Go to classes and practicas until you feel confident in your form and you can lead and navigate; ochos, walking, giros, change between parralell and cross system without your partner following it, and you know for most of the time which leg your parnter has her weight on.

Me, I waited for 6 months before I went to a milonga, did all the beginners classes twice and practiced ochos for five minutes every night.

[Ampster]

Please help!
Over the last two years I’ve learned some basics in about 15 dances. Argentine tango remains my most troublesome. And least enjoyable.

I took a 6-7 lessons a year ago, tryed a milonga or two , felt nothing and quit. Happy to just do a basic tango walk when a tango comes on at the socials.
Now I’m making another foray into AT. Bought an expensive AT DVD, took a few more lessons and still s**k at it!
Last night at a milonga I was often thanked at the end of the first song in the tanda. Why can’t I enjoy this dance the way you can with just a few swing lessons or cha cha or hustle. The pleasure of this dance still eludes me.

Can someone please advise me. I’m thinking of quiting this dance again. My main complaints are:

Followers instruct me
Followers get frustrated
Followers start doing things that I am not leading
I feel like I’m just walking around the floor all worried and not feeling any passion
I don’t feel the pleasure of dancing this.**Can someone give me advise on how to enjoy this dance at least uitil I can **get better.

Maybe I should just focus on a simple walk? Is there a mind set to have to feel some passion when doing AT?

Thanks





Don't fret. Of all the dances I do, AT is the hardest and most complicated to learn. But, it is the most beautiful.

It takes PATIENCE. Don't try to do too much too soon. It doesn't work. It is the social dance that requires a long term commitment. It is because of the very, very strong interaction of lead and follow that is not as emphasized in the other of the social/ballrooom dances.

I was once like you. I can do the Rhumba, Cha-cha, hustle, swing, waltz, Fox-trot, etc., etc. It only took a few lessons (relatively), and off I went. AT took me several months before I was even confident enough to do a walk at a real milonga. But, once "the light bulb" in my head came on, it all came together.

I would advise that you go take lessons first. Live lessons, and not from a DVD (I have several instructionals, and without a live teacher, it made no sense). I found that they make more sense when you actually understand the dance.

Start off with the basic classes first. Understand the basics, as everything else is built on this.

Take advantage of Practicas. That's what they're there for. Once you get comfortable in practicas, then try the milongas.

[Gssh]

It took me a long time to feel even rudimentarily comfortable with tango, and from talking with other leaders it seems to me everybody has this problem. And your post reminded me so much of myself that it made me de-lurk after reading these boards for a long time :).

My take on this is that tango is so frustrating because there is truly nothing to it besides the lead - it has no rythm, it has no basics, no moves, nothing. If the leader wants to step on every 3rd beat - thats ok. If he wants to run around and do doubletimes all the time, thats good, too. (if either of these things fit the music, the energy of the dancefloor or the follower is another question).


Please help!
I took a 6-7 lessons a year ago, tryed a milonga or two , felt nothing and quit. Happy to just do a basic tango walk when a tango comes on at the socials.


If you are able to do a basic tango walk you know everything you need to know to create some interesting dances.

A few things to try:

Listen to the music and try a few of the following things:
1) Walk twice as fast as the beat of the music (tends to work very well if there is a piano)
2) Walk half as fast as the beat (sometimes violins seem to be there)
3) Walk a third as fast as the beat (usually fun with tango nuevos, especially if they don't offer much to play with (e.g. gotan project), and this is also interesting with vals (though some followers might be disappointed when you replace the energy of valsing with this))
4) pause when collected, wait a beat, and step again
5) pause when collected, shift the weight on the beat, and continue again
6) if your follower is playful, stop, shift weight two/three/four/five times between the beat, and continue walking
7) pause on the middle axis (when you are not collected), and then continue walking



1)Followers instruct me
2)Followers get frustrated
3)Followers start doing things that I am not leading
4)I feel like I’m just walking around the floor all worried and not feeling any passion
5)I don’t feel the pleasure of dancing this.




1) I don't know how formal the milongos you go to are, but if followers think it is ok to instruct you it sounds to me that they are more like practicas. So, if you feel ok with being instructed, and feel that the follower is competent enough to be really helpful, a few suggestions to get something out of it: Most followers have no idea of how leading works, and if they tell you what to do they are sometimes wrong. They are ALWAYS RIGHT in that you should do something different. Good questions to ask: "What did you think i was leading? Why did you think that? What do you need to feel if i want to lead X? How were you not comfortable with my lead?"

Note that that will destroy the dance completely and make it just practicing - in a milonga i usually try something once with a follower, and if it doesn't work i do something else. If this reduces me to only walking, so be it. Tango is an internal dance that happens between me and the follower, and the best parts of it are invisible anyway.

2) Related to 1). If your follower gets frustrated the reason is always the same: You lost connection. The prime reason for loosing connection is that a "move" did not work. No matter what the reason for this is (the lead was off, the follower did not get it, the follower does not like the move (e.g. one of my favourite followers does not like doing a cross in double time, whenever i lead this she tends to slow me down to make it a single time cross - which disconnects us completely - so i don't lead crosses in double time with her),the music did something weird that moment), as a leader you have the advantage here: simply avoid that move that doesn't work for you two, and explore the rest.

3) Milonga: Figure out what she is doing, catch up, and pretend that you really, really lead that. Some followers have deeply ingrained habits that make it hard to lead some things. e.g. they insist on even number of steps in ochos, or they will always follow a barrida with a pasada and the pasada with a gancho, or they will start a whole 5min choreography as soon as you lead anything vaguely resembling a boleo. Just enjoy what she likes to do. If you are confident in your lead you can play with this, and explore alternatives together with her, but that falls under the "try it once, and if it doesn't work forget about it" rule.
Practica: Again, ask: "Why did you feel i lead this? What did i do to prompt this? I liked this!! What do i have to do so that you do this again?"

Also: The follower has the right to do her own thing if there is time and space for it. In a way it is like a paint-by numbers picture: The leader does the black lines, and the follower is filling them in with whatever she like. Sometimes she will even want to color over the lines - enjoy this!! Thats why we dance with a person: So we get something back. half of it is her dance, and she is not a "dance-tool", but your Partner. At the end she should feel that she has created as much, or even more of the dance than you did.

4) Thats what everybody does most of the time :). In the end tango is a pretty technical dance, and especially during big, showy, sexy moves at least my thoughts tend to run along the lines "How are our hips aligned? Did I set the angle up correctly? Is my frame correct? What are all the other couples doing? I hope the orchestra is not playing with my expectations by doing a fake ending". To get the whole tango bliss thing do only things that you are 1000% sure that you two can dance. Once you are in the zone you can push it, but in my experience playing with exploring moves is enjoyable in a different way.

5) Maybe the dance/the music just is not you. If you have other things that give you more joy why waste your time with tango? I know this is heretical, especially among tango dancers, but not everybody likes every dance. I for example don't enjoy salsa, and talking with my friends who love it has really not helped.




1)Maybe I should just focus on a simple walk? Is there a mind set to have to feel some passion when doing AT?



Walking is good. And there is nothing simple about it.

What has helped me most when learning was to ask my teacher to lead me when i am not able to do something. This really helps me to understand what the follower is supposed to feel, and what makes the final move inevitable. In many cases the small details of the lead are not easily explained in words, and it is much faster to learn them directly from somebody than trying to figure them out by trial and error (and followers are grateful, too - they want to work on technique and following, and not on "how do i backlead this move efficiently if i guess that is what the leader is trying to do").

Another thing that helps is taking privates with a teacher that is a good follower. I woudl suggest trying to find a leader who also follows - in my experience dancing with somebody as heavy and strong as oneself really helps working on basic technique. I found that i used my mass and strenght to replace precision and timing in leading, and running against a chest that was as solid as a piece of concrete whenever i tried this taught me fast :).

Hope this helps,

Gssh

[Twirly]

Gssh, when you de-lurk you do it in style! Great post.

[jhpark]

The frustrating thing is that there are some follows who will love and be entranced by the sorts of things gssh describes, but there are others (many of which are young and attractive, and also many of which have great technique and are otherwise good dancers) who will be bored by it, and need lots of giros and boleos and ganchos and off axis stuff and all that sort of exciting stuff. So even though I love leading the simple stuff, not everyone appreciates it.

Actually I wonder what the % of these kinds of follows are in different age ranges

[Twirly]

Hmm. Interesting. I can only speak for myself, but as a follower I really don't like doing ganchos and boleos with just anyone. I can do them pretty well, and it can be fun with the right person, but I would choose close embrace dancing with simple steps every time. A comfy embrace is probably the most important thing for me when I dance with someone. To me the flash stuff is something people mainly do before they're good enough or have realised the beauty of simple close embrace dancing.

The best dancers I see around me seem to do both - simple close embrace for really enjoying the dance and open with lots of moves more to practice and have fun if they are in that mood. But many of them only dance close, whereas I haven't seen any of them only ever do open, if you know what I mean.

Of course, this is just my impression.

[AATanguera]

You said you learned "some basics" in about 15 dances (!) and took 6 to 7 lessons in Argentine Tango and then tried dancing at a milonga, and therein lies the answer to your lament. You've spread yourself too thin and you cannot learn Argentine Tango in a handful of lessons. (If I misread your post regarding learning the basics in 15 different dances, then I apologize.)

Argentine Tango is a tough and wonderful dance that is immensely rewarding to those who finally get it, but for most people, it takes a LOT of work. For some it takes a lifetime and then some. Most of the people I know who dance Argentine Tango with sentimientos and "get it", immerse themselves in Argentine Tango and no other dance. I recall one friend who, when we all started together, took all 12 Argentine Tango lessons that were offered each week at one studio! Everyone progresses differently so it is not good to generalize on how long it takes it to get "good" at Argentine Tango. However, I think for most people, especially leaders, it takes years. I know some leaders who have danced for less than 2 years and they are GREAT, but I know some leaders who have danced for 6 or more years and are just competent -- dancing in a boring, workmen-like way.

As a follower, I haven't learned to lead, so I can't give you any personal advice, but I've observed the following from my favorite leaders:

1. They're musical and know the music. You MUST love the music. If you don't, I don't think you can ever get into the tango zone. I listen to AT music all the time from the minute I wake up. Listen to the great tango classics until it sinks into your bones.

2. They practice, practice, practice. A local wunderkind teacher was once asked by one of my friends who took all his classes, "what else can we do to improve our dance?" He said "Practice and go out dancing." Unless one is some tango prodigy, most of us have to practice. If you don't go to hours of practicas each week, forget about it. Practicas first, milongas later is okay.

3. They dance with a LOT of different people. There are those who feel that a steady practice partner is the way to go and others who don't. I'm in the latter camp. When you dance with one person all the time, you begin to know what patterns they do, what peculiar steps they do, and that's not really leading or following. It's just memorizing what they do. The best local leader I know can ask any follower to dance because he is confident that he can lead them. He spent lots of hours in practicas dancing with all types of followers -- short, tall, young, old, skinny, fat, beginners, advanced dancers, etc. -- so he is flexible and has tried out what works and what doesn't on many different followers. He is one of my favorite local leaders.

4. They take privates. One very wise leader once told me that privates are for correcting all the bad habits you pick up in group classes, so supplement the group classes with some privates. Unless you take classes in some perfect dance studio, there is no time for the teacher in the group class to spot and point out your particular issues. For example, some leaders dance with so much tension in their bodies, it is like arm wrestling or pressing up against a brick wall. One of my favorite leads took some privates, and he said the teacher felt this and worked on knocking out all the tension in his body. All the chicas love dancing with this leader because he is so smooth, relaxed, clear in his lead, etc.

5. Finally, I agree with everything that Gssh said. Right on the money.

Good luck.

[Gssh]

Jhpark, you are right, there is quite a percentage of followers who like the more showy aspects of tango, but in my experience the percentage of followers who like ONLY the showy aspects is relatively low. And the OP's problem was to get at least some enjoyment out of going to milongas - i think confidence in ones walk and some tools for rhythmic play are the key for somebody starting out.

Overall i actually think that the number of followers who require showy stuff is really, really low.

I started tango because my martial arts teacher (Kali/Panatukan) recommended dancing as the best way to practice rythm, breaking rhythmen and how to make footwork match and mismatch the rythm. For example when you watch a great boxer you can see how he reads the rhythm of his opponent, and then BAM attacks him on the half beat when he can't react to it. Because of this background that is what i worked on most.
The first time i went to a milonga i was awed not by the nuevo people with their but by a couple in their 70's who did the most incredible things with the basic beat. I had done enough throwing around of people to know that it is just a question of timing, and how difficult could it be with a cooperating partner? (Oh, was i wrong there!) - But breaking the rhythm like that, that was hard, i understood that.

During my first year of dancing i noticed something very interesting: I was popular with followers just starting off - mainly because i avoided leading moves that i wasn't able to lead, and advanced followers would dance with me, and they seemed to enjoy it, and they kept telling me that i was fun to dance with. It was the intermediate followers that didn't want to dance with me, and that i had the most trouble dancing with. And they kept complaining about the things i lead, and the things i didn't lead.
What i figure now is that i essentially broke the rules of tango with my dancing. In general it is true that leaders are bad and boring for a long time, and followers learn the basics much quicker. But if you start adding listening to the music and playing with the simple walk you shift the playing field - it is very easy as a leader to stop, or to go, or to do a double time (or if you want to see how good your follower really is try doing a triple time), but it requires incredible concentration and skill from the follower to pick this up.

I think twirly is correct that once you are beyond beginner most people sort into two categories: simple stuff all the time, or simple stuff most of the time with some showy stuff thrown in from time to time.

I would only add that there is a third (small) category that wants to do showy stuff all the time - the only problem is that they essentially don't want to dance social tango. In my experience they either realize that they don't want to dance social AT and get a steady partner and go to workshops and essentially study AT as performance art, or they don't realize it and spend a lot of time unhappy at milongas. This happens to both leaders and followers. Leaders then tend to start hunting beginners and teaching them them complex moves on the dancefloor by telling them where exactly they have to put ther feet. Followers spend a lot of time sitting and waiting for the end of the night when the dancefloor is empty and for the few leaders who are skilled enough to fill their cravings in an improvised, social dance.

So what is my point? I think simple stuff is always enough. If a follower requires (nota bene: "requires" not "enjoys") fancy moves they are dancing a different dance than AT-as-a-social-dance. It seems that the tango community is the only group of dancers where people who want to social dance and people who want to perform think they are doing exactly the same thing. Just go over to the ballroom forums and read any of the "I don't go social dancing because it is bad for my performances" or "I only dance with my pro" threads, or listen to salseros recount how as soon as people are in a salsa troupe they stop dancing with anybody else, or see how swingdancers activly classify things like aerials as for-performance-only.
Yes, there are the followers who dance tango as a performance, and if we want to dance with them we have to have the skills that are required for that. One is doing Paris-Dakar, the other is enjoying a weekend road trip.


Gssh

[Ampster]

Hey Gssh! :notworth:

That was very eloquent and poignant.


(p.s. long live Arnis!)

[jhpark]

You know... I was thinking about the idea that people should stick to classes and practicas for a while, to get better at the basics (and I guess we really mean leaders here, right?), before venturing out to milongas. But *WHY* do we expect beginners to be interested in the dance for those months at practicas and classes? Are you able to convey to them the magic of tango in that sort of context? how are you able to structure your classes so it's not just beginners with beginners dancing with each other, and everyone wondering, why is this dance worth spending this much time on?

What gets people hooked, especially enough so that leaders will say, okay, for me to get good at this thing it will take three months of practicas and classes, and it'll be worth it?

I was rather lucky because the scene I'm in now, there's not this expectation of purgatory in classes/practicas without going to a milonga, so I jumped right in and found a few followers willing to put up with my pathetic, non-musical (though at least to the beat -- never had a problem finding the beat in music) walking and leading from the beginning. And I hope some of them actually enjoy dancing with me now. ;) But I know that in many places people are told to stick to the more academic, hopefully easier settings... But I wonder then what makes that period of not going to milongas bearable, so that people keep dancing... ?

[Ampster]

Well, let me rephrase at least what I said previously...

This is actually what I meant. By encouraging someone to do practicas, I meant it as a medium for practice, practice, practice. I didn't mean that as a beginner, one should limit one's self to only the practicas.

On the contrary! one should avail of the practicas for their value in offering a beginner, a venue with which to practice in and gain confidence (I still go to practicas myself). Then, by all means go to a milonga. But, dance to the level you are in, and try not to do too much too soon.

This process would then continue in a cycle of betterment. It is a beautiful evolutionary process.



Hmmm... now what social dance can other than AT can we all be so deeply philosophical over, eh? Isn't it such a beautiful thing? :cool:

[bordertangoman]

I knew a teacher who used the dreaded 8CB to hook people; by learning 8 steps in a sequence they thought they were dancing and with a few variations they had the impression of progress, so they were happy and kept coming. In fact it was taking them longer to learn how to dance tango since they weren't being taught the necessary skills of leading and following, which I guess might be boring to a beginner.

But it changes when you have paeople at different levels so you can see what can be acheived by other people who have been dancing for longer.

Gsssh has written an interesting piece, for me to get any of that stuff has taken a long time: part of it is getting my legs to work in a certain way to get all those fast between-beat weight changes and being able to lead or hide them. No I can't do triple time. My brain just screws up if I try that!!

I admire Chicho Frumboli and his ability to pick out more detail in a song to step to, but I'm still teaching myself that ability and of course you need a follower who can pick up cortes, hesitations, rocking steps and the variations of a simple step that are possible.

[Gssh]

Bordertangoman: Uuuh, i am really not that good a tango dancer - i have danced for a while, but i am only barely an intermediate dancer. What i feel strongly about is that most of this stuff is not as difficult to work on as it appears when people try to show it. Like trying "triple time": I can't do triple time reliably - but if there is some fast flourish on the piano and have managed a double time or two with the same follower before i try, and , sometimes it is just double time becuase that all the follower agrees to, sometimes its 2.7 time, sometimes 3.4 time, and i have slur the next step a bit to get on time again, but a few rare times we nailed it, and it was great. If not - well, it was still fun, and it accentuated the music in a sloppy way, and nobody got hurt. Most followers seem to take this kind of error in stride, and sometimes when i try variations of walking I can feel how they switch from dancing automatically to really "listening" - and thats a wonderful moment in itself.
Compared to doing this working on for example a backward sacada is painful: if it doesn't work i either stepped on her, or i have aborted the move while we both are in awfully contorted positions - thats not fun for either of us. And i can't really hide practicing this in my normal dance, because it fails way to spectacularily when it fails.

Ampster: Re: Arnis: Have you read the "Manual al Baratero"? Sometimes it seems to me that FMA and Tango have some common ancestors :).

Gssh

[Steve Pastor]

It may be good fortune that my answer to "why not go to milongas after a few lessons?" evaporated yesterday.
Let's just say that the act of learning a new, very difficult skill can be both very frustrating and, at the same time, very rewarding.
I was not very comfortable with taking it out after only a few lessons and relying on the kindness of strangers. (Exhibit #1 is Blanche DuBois.)
I took lessons for six months before I went to my first practica. Practicas are not purgatory. They are a place to work on your dance. Some hold to the belief that you should know how to dance before going to a milonga. When you consider that dancing only one dance with someone is considered a slight, so to be polite you are expected to dance an entire tanda..... In my opinion you are being considerate of the other dancers by not expecting them to accomodate you.
Sometimes the journey can be at least as rewarding as arriving at the destination. Come to think of it, sometimes arriving is followed by a big let down.

[bordertangoman]

Re: double time: I got how to do this in a workshop when the teacher showed how the body - specifically the hips - has to stiffen up for the small fast steps and you soften again when you slow down. The reason for this is it makes your leg motion be able to be felt by the follower.

Have you ever seen how racing walkers walk, well its a bit like that.

[uncle joe]

I came in third in the Valentino Tango Contest held at the Hollywood Palladium in 1952; the dancers were judged by an applaudo meter. Frank Veloz of Veloz & Yolanda chain studios was the Host of the event.
Up until the 1960's AT did have standard dance patterns the were standard among the US Chain Dance Studios.
After leaving the Dance scene for some forty years I was confused with the way AT tango evolved in this country to i's present form.
Although I){ am completely fascinated with the revolved AT, I) still feel there is a great lose if we let the olds style of AT die.
Fortunately there is a move, 'The Lou Gearig Story' where Frank and Yolanda do the old style of AT.
Recently I taught a couple a routine using the old AT patterns. It was filmed and I intend to have the film converted to a DVD and copied onto my website.
Again, I believe the evolved AT is a dance unique from the old style AT of the 1930's to the 60's and much more intricate and seductive. I wish I could dance this style, but unfortunately I lost my equilibrium in an accident so all I can do is enjoy watching it... but the Old AT should be revived, and I'd give free lessons if someone sets up a venue in Old Pasadena.

[hbboogie1]

Please help!
Over the last two years I’ve learned some basics in about 15 dances. Argentine tango remains my most troublesome. And least enjoyable.

I took a 6-7 lessons a year ago, tryed a milonga or two , felt nothing and quit. Happy to just do a basic tango walk when a tango comes on at the socials.
Now I’m making another foray into AT. Bought an expensive AT DVD, took a few more lessons and still s**k at it!
Last night at a milonga I was often thanked at the end of the first song in the tanda. Why can’t I enjoy this dance the way you can with just a few swing lessons or cha cha or hustle. The pleasure of this dance still eludes me.

Can someone please advise me. I’m thinking of quiting this dance again. My main complaints are:

Followers instruct me
Followers get frustrated
Followers start doing things that I am not leading
I feel like I’m just walking around the floor all worried and not feeling any passion
I don’t feel the pleasure of dancing this.**Can someone give me advise on how to enjoy this dance at least uitil I can **get better.

Maybe I should just focus on a simple walk? Is there a mind set to have to feel some passion when doing AT?

Thanks




bordertangoman quote I knew a teacher who used the dreaded 8CB to hook people; by learning 8 steps in a sequence they thought they were dancing and with a few variations they had the impression of progress, so they were happy and kept coming. In fact it was taking them longer to learn how to dance tango since they weren't being taught the necessary skills of leading and following, which I guess might be boring to a beginner


The dreaded 8CB can be taught in a matter of minutes and most so called intermediate or advanced tango dancers could probably demonstrate it for you. Now lets talk about actually dancing the 8CB. In my vast experience I have only run across a few people that can dance it properly. It would take a true intermediate or advanced dancer a long long long time to learn how to execute the eight count basic properly. What most don’t understand is that every step in the basic has a distinctive lead and follow it’s a very difficult sequence to learn and to lead. So if this teacher is actually teaching the basic properly and you spend many months mastering it you will be a better leader then most of the Men who believe in the kung fu Zen method of learning tango. The secret of dancing tango well is practice not five minutes a day but hours a day for years. It sounds to me like you don’t want to invest any time to learn tango. It will take you a year to begin to feel comfortable on the social dance floor so make a commitment and after a year if you still feel like you’re not progressing then quit.
Good luck

[opendoor]

Hi aaah,
you have received such a lot of helpful answers, so I dont know, if my severe advice is still important, yet.


Over the last two years I’ve learned some basics in about 15 dances ..

I believe that you learn a special dance more in an academic manner rather than from the feeling and the atmosphere.
But in TA it works the other way round! It is possible to dance TA without any knowledge of steps. And f.i. , standing is a very important part of TA, as well. Start only by inhaling the atmosphere, and make only a few steps.

My main complaints are:

Followers instruct me
...
Followers start doing things that I am not leading



Congratulations, these are good tokens?/signs? (sorry my english). Followers are the best teachers. Be happy to communicate with them. Ask for details. And, the most important hint, build up a social network !

If you cannot enjoy only to hear the music, to do a few steps, to hold a woman tight, to sway gently on the spot, the feeling of success will never come. Let you get yourself overwhelmed. Nothing else really works. TA is an infectious disease, we all here are infected to the bone. Your defensive forces are still to strong.

OD

[Gssh]

The more things change, the more they stay the same. *sigh*. This is the first thread i ever replied to. Makes me a bit nostalgic.

I am always startled when old threads get revived like that - so little change. I just read what i wrote 3 years ago, and i would pretty much write the same things again. And so would Ampster, and Bordertangoman, and all the other usual suspects.

Tango is sometimes a hard, long journey - i am pretty sure/quite hopeful that i have made some progress since then, but looking at how little my view of the dance has changed i start to doubt.

Gssh

[bastet]

The more things change, the more they stay the same. *sigh*. This is the first thread i ever replied to. Makes me a bit nostalgic.

I am always startled when old threads get revived like that - so little change. I just read what i wrote 3 years ago, and i would pretty much write the same things again. And so would Ampster, and Bordertangoman, and all the other usual suspects.

Tango is sometimes a hard, long journey - i am pretty sure/quite hopeful that i have made some progress since then, but looking at how little my view of the dance has changed i start to doubt.

Gssh

I thought your posts were eloquent and true to form. :) And I was surprised to see the original post date on them as it could have been yesterday that the thread started and the answers would have been much the same so I've made absolutely no attempt to comment on the OP itself due to the age of it. I only hope they found what they needed.

I'm sure you've made personal progress, that may not change what you find important in the dance. There's no reason why you can't make personal progress and still have the same values you did before in what you find important in the dance.

[bordertangoman]

The more things change, the more they stay the same. *sigh*. This is the first thread i ever replied to. Makes me a bit nostalgic.

I am always startled when old threads get revived like that - so little change. I just read what i wrote 3 years ago, and i would pretty much write the same things again. And so would Ampster, and Bordertangoman, and all the other usual suspects.



Gssh

well we're just boring old farts

[opendoor]

well we're just boring old farts

.. and I am a Zombie ! The post I responded is out dated :p

[tangomaniac]

If you're only being taught patterns, you'll never learn how to dance tango well. You need to concentrate on technique. My teacher used to say it's the HOW, not the WHAT that's important. Here's an example. On a tile or hard wood floor, stand in front of a chair that has coasters. Practice moving the chair shifting your weight, not moving your foot. Stand on one foot, and lead the chair to move backwards with your weight. After the chair moves, step. If you step into the chair, it means you moved your foot before you moved the chair.

Michael

[Consuela]

Up until the 1960's AT did have standard dance patterns the were standard among the US Chain Dance Studios.
After leaving the Dance scene for some forty years I was confused with the way AT tango evolved in this country to i's present form.
Although I){ am completely fascinated with the revolved AT, I) still feel there is a great lose if we let the olds style of AT die.

Again, I believe the evolved AT is a dance unique from the old style AT of the 1930's to the 60's and much more intricate and seductive. I wish I could dance this style, but unfortunately I lost my equilibrium in an accident so all I can do is enjoy watching it... but the Old AT should be revived, and I'd give free lessons if someone sets up a venue in Old Pasadena.

This is an interesting perspective. I'm not from the US and haven't yet had the opportunity to dance there, so am not familiar with how Americans generally dance AT. It sounds to me like the 'evolved' style Uncle Joe talks about is actually closer the 'old' style of AT (up to 1955); ie improvised, intricate, with the focus on the connection between leader and follower as opposed to performing standard patterns (which sounds like ballroom tango to me).

[Steve Pastor]

First off, sorry to hear about your equilibrium problem, Joe.

From what I've seen of "textbooks" on dance, tango, often with adjective "Argentine" in front of it, was taught as any other ballroom dance. One quailfier, though, is that some of these texts addressed lead / follow rather extensively, but not more so for tango than the other dances. And, there were no specific directions for each named sequence of steps.

Joe writes Up until the 1960's AT did have standard dance patterns the were standard among the US Chain Dance Studios., and this agrees with what I've seen in books from as early as the 1910s through the 70s.
I believe the evolved AT is a dance unique from the old style AT of the 1930's to the 60's and much more intricate and seductive.
And, I also agree with this.

[spectator]

The guys all give good and carefully considered advice. My thought is that if it is a quick fix you are after, maybe you should give the milongas a miss for a few weeks and arrange some private lessons/approach a friendly more experienced lady and ask for some intensive and brutally honest practice sessions. If you go down that route be prepared for a roasting but accept it for what it is-short term pain for long term gain.

[Ampster]

The more things change, the more they stay the same. *sigh*. This is the first thread i ever replied to. Makes me a bit nostalgic.

I am always startled when old threads get revived like that - so little change. I just read what i wrote 3 years ago, and i would pretty much write the same things again. And so would Ampster, and Bordertangoman, and all the other usual suspects.

Tango is sometimes a hard, long journey - i am pretty sure/quite hopeful that i have made some progress since then, but looking at how little my view of the dance has changed i start to doubt.

Gssh

Eh... What!? :shock: I didn't do it, I swear! :nope: :banana:

btw, spectator: Where have you been?

[spectator]

it's been conference season... er for 6 months... well if it yields all expenses paid international tango jaunts one can't complain...