Does being a musician hinders or helps your dance growth?

[borikensalsero]

I ask because I have quite a few musician friends who are total knuckle heads when it comes to dancing.

They refuse to listen to what I say and the why dancers do it this or that way. They hear every beat, they even tell me when things are about to happen and why. Yet, they can't put those skills into the dancefloor. They just can't seem to break out of the mold that becuase there is 8 beats to 2 measures you don't have to step in all of them.

I actually think that it has more to do with stubborness than being musicians. Just wanted to know what DF thought about it. I think it helps, hence why I need to take those percussion classes I've been meaning to take.

[Vince A]

I ask because I have quite a few musician friends who are total knuckle heads when it comes to dancing.
Most of the musician friends that I have that also dance do excel in dancing . . . it has everything to do with dancing and certainly gives us musicians a definite edge . . .

I actually think that it has more to do with stubborness than being musicians. Just wanted to know what DF thought about it. I think it helps, hence why I need to take those percussion classes I've been meaning to take.
It's either stubborness or from a deep-seeded hatred for dancers coming from the days of when, as mucicians, we performed on stage for three hours, while everyone else danced for those three hours.

Maybe???

[Phil Owl]

I ask because I have quite a few musician friends who are total knuckle heads when it comes to dancing.
Most of the musician friends that I have that also dance do excel in dancing . . . it has everything to do with dancing and certainly gives us musicians a definite edge . . .

I actually think that it has more to do with stubborness than being musicians. Just wanted to know what DF thought about it. I think it helps, hence why I need to take those percussion classes I've been meaning to take.
It's either stubborness or from a deep-seeded hatred for dancers coming from the days of when, as mucicians, we performed on stage for three hours, while everyone else danced for those three hours.

Maybe???

Another dimension to it I believe is that some musicians tend to be more serious (over-)disciplined and cerebral as people that they find it nearly impossible to be able to let go and let themselves make a mistake or make a fool of themselves. There resides a deep-seated fear of not being taken seriously by other people. Most likely growing up in an environment where discipline and rigidity rule would make it very difficult to do that. Dancing requires an investment of emotion, something that more seriously minded people seem to have a really hard time expressing, again, for fear of not being taken seriously.

Can speak from experience, I was there at one time.

[SwinginBoo]

I don't think one can easily make a judgment to say all musicans are terrible dancers or that all musicians are wonderful dancers. I think that each person has a list of talents that he or she is naturally good at.

Sometimes if a person has a very strong muscial background and strong musical intelligence (of gardner's multiple) then dancing comes very easily. It is very natural and rhythmic. I have a friend who plays in a Swing band who picks up on dancing instantly, she can follow almost anything and has never really taken a lesson other than some instruction from me and Bruce.

On the other hand there are people who have the same strong muscial background and play wonderfully and sing brilliantly, but have a hard time dancing and keeping a beat. My above-mentioned friend's brother is in the same band and he has an awful time trying to keep the beat (which is ironic since he is the drummer).

I think it just goes to show that each person is different and having a background in music may or may not give you an advantage on the dancefloor.

(This post really doesn't go anywhere does it? I'm just sitting on the fence. Sorry about that.)

[SDsalsaguy]

(which is ironic since he is the drummer).
While I recognize the irony I'm not sure that this isn't typical . . . many of the worst dancers I have come across in various dance classes and clubs have turned out to be drummers. :shock:

I'm not sure but I have a hunch that they are too beat driven and so miss out on all of the musci between and linking individual beats, and that this is part of what shows when they try dancing.

Anyone else with like experiences or is this just a sampling error?

[borikensalsero]

(which is ironic since he is the drummer).
While I recognize the irony I'm not sure that this isn't typical . . . many of the worst dancers I have come across in various dance classes and clubs have turned out to be drummers. :shock:

I'm not sure but I have a hunch that they are too beat driven and so miss out on all of the musci between and linking individual beats, and that this is part of what shows when they try dancing.

Anyone else with like experiences or is this just a sampling error?

I was talking to the conga player of the Spanish Harlem Orquestra and he said man. I can't dance to save my life. I see you guys out there and always wonder, how do they do it. To which I responeded, I look and wonder how you do it...

[salsarhythms]

Hmmmm...

I play the conga, and must say not too shabby in the
dance area either...

But, yes, I know plenty of musicians that can't dance
to save their own lives.

[NeoDevin]

That reminds me of a joke:

Q: What do you call a guy who hangs out with musicians?

A: A Drummer!!!

LOL

[danceguy]

This is a very interesting topic. I've mentioned before that I used to play the saxophone some years back - I wasn't that great of a player and quit just before I turned pro. While I was only proficient on the sax, I also was a Music Ed major for a while and took classes on Piano, Brass, Percussion and even a little conducting. As I played in several Big Bands, I had a real feel for Swing music and had always wanted to take up dancing.

When I started dancing...learning Swing was very easy for me...and I found it helped my dancing tremendously. At dances, women were continuously complimenting me on my rhythm and staying with the music...which hopefully made up for the fact that I didn't know a lot of moves! :oops:

But when I first was learning Salsa...I was having a helluva time trying to find my place in the music. I had heard the terms tumbao and clave...but I wasn't 100% what they were exactly. Back when I used play the sax I had never studied or played any Latin music, and come to think of it I didn't listen to much of it either. So my musician's ears were having a real frusterating time trying to feel the music...but thanks to Salsa Rhythms that's a thing of the past. :)

It is very interesting being on "the other side" now...for while my days as a musician are over...I still am there with the music...although I must admit I miss being up on the stage performing. One of these days though...I'm going to be out dancing to a live band and ask one of the saxophonists to let me have a quick solo... :P

Best,

SG

[salsachinita]

(which is ironic since he is the drummer).
While I recognize the irony I'm not sure that this isn't typical . . . many of the worst dancers I have come across in various dance classes and clubs have turned out to be drummers. :shock:

I'm not sure but I have a hunch that they are too beat driven and so miss out on all of the musci between and linking individual beats, and that this is part of what shows when they try dancing.

Anyone else with like experiences or is this just a sampling error?

I agree with you there, SD. Some of the most crummy dancers out there ARE percussionists :shock: !

My Latino bros, for example. Most of them are FATASTIC, 1st class musicians. They can all dance, I believe, however simplistic. I have a blast dancing with them, but they are just so damned SHY about it....!

I guess they must feel pressured in some ways.......just because they PLAY well, the expectation (mainly from themselves) is that they should also DANCE well :? .....?

On the other hand, some of the best dancers I've seen are musicians (professional or otherwise). This is especially true to the newly arrived Cubans (runaways from the show :wink: !); I went on the road with them and they have taught me SO much 8) !

Now, my latest challenge is to train my DJ/precussionist new boyfriend to salsa (I am a traditional non-leading salsera). Eventhough he was a hip-hop/R&B dancer I've got a feeling that he will go through 'beginner's hell' (as Edie explained in her website) just like most people.

Does anybody have any advise.....?

[pygmalion]

Another dimension to it I believe is that some musicians tend to be more serious (over-)disciplined and cerebral as people that they find it nearly impossible to be able to let go and let themselves make a mistake or make a fool of themselves. There resides a deep-seated fear of not being taken seriously by other people. Most likely growing up in an environment where discipline and rigidity rule would make it very difficult to do that. Dancing requires an investment of emotion, something that more seriously minded people seem to have a really hard time expressing, again, for fear of not being taken seriously.

Can speak from experience, I was there at one time.



I think you may have something here, Phil. To me, the musical side approaches things from the left side of my brain -- logic, order, symmetry. Both sides are integrated, of course, but the left brain is where I start. For dancing, I start from the right -- feeling, intuition, creativity.

Maybe the good musician/bad dancers haven't yet figured out how to effectively integrate the two. *shrug* :?

[DanceMentor]

Believe it or not!

I played the flute in the marching band for 3 years.

I'm sure that being involved in music helps you to learn the rhythms of dancing. I think an understanding of music is also quintessential for the choreographer...understanding the breaks and following the flow of the music.

[NeoDevin]

I've played the flute and piccolo for 4 years now. I can say for sure that it helped me with waltz. It probably helped me with the rest of them too.

[DanceMentor]

Wow! Another guy that plays the flute. It's a small world! :D
I haven't played in a while. I will be sure to do it when I have some free time over the holidays.

[NeoDevin]

I take lessons every week, just got home from my lesson a few hours ago.

[borikensalsero]

Wow! Another guy that plays the flute. It's a small world! :D
I haven't played in a while. I will be sure to do it when I have some free time over the holidays.

DanceMentor, NeoDevin,
Maybe you guys should start your own DF Charanga band. :D :D Better yet, we have enough people here that can play instruments. We should start the DF Orchestra. :D :D Since, I can play anything I'll cheer you guys on. :banana: :D :D

[KevinL]

Does being a musician hinders or helps your dance growth?

I ask because I have quite a few musician friends who are total knuckle heads when it comes to dancing.

I'm not sure, but someone once told me that musicians often have a hard time learning to dance because they are so used to expressing the music with just a part of their body (hands, mouths, feet, whetever) that they sometimes have a hard time dancing because you use your whole body.

[borikensalsero]

Does being a musician hinders or helps your dance growth?

I ask because I have quite a few musician friends who are total knuckle heads when it comes to dancing.

I'm not sure, but someone once told me that musicians often have a hard time learning to dance because they are so used to expressing the music with just a part of their body (hands, mouths, feet, whetever) that they sometimes have a hard time dancing because you use your whole body.

Wow... What a POINT!!! Hmmm.... I guess the next step is moving the grooving with the mouth to the body.

[pygmalion]

Good point, KevinL. It is a leap to take it from your fingers to your body. I was lucky, because I had a violin coach who insisted that you can't play unless you move with the music. She actually physically moved me (and embarrassed me in front of the whole string section! :oops: ) But she got her point across. Music IS movement to me. Not everybody see things that way, though.

[Vince A]

Does being a musician hinders or helps your dance growth?

I ask because I have quite a few musician friends who are total knuckle heads when it comes to dancing.

I'm not sure, but someone once told me that musicians often have a hard time learning to dance because they are so used to expressing the music with just a part of their body (hands, mouths, feet, whetever) that they sometimes have a hard time dancing because you use your whole body.

Wow... What a POINT!!! Hmmm.... I guess the next step is moving the grooving with the mouth to the body.
Ah . . . most "singers" that I know also dance well. Case in point, my wife - an ex-professional singer - she has been competing for going on about 4 1/2 years now, and will begin next dance season (January) as an advanced dancer.

And look at me . . . another example . . . I can sing and I do play an instrument and in WCS, hell, I can count to six!!!!

[borikensalsero]

Does being a musician hinders or helps your dance growth?

I ask because I have quite a few musician friends who are total knuckle heads when it comes to dancing.

I'm not sure, but someone once told me that musicians often have a hard time learning to dance because they are so used to expressing the music with just a part of their body (hands, mouths, feet, whetever) that they sometimes have a hard time dancing because you use your whole body.

Wow... What a POINT!!! Hmmm.... I guess the next step is moving the grooving with the mouth to the body.
Ah . . . most "singers" that I know also dance well. Case in point, my wife - an ex-professional singer - she has been competing for going on about 4 1/2 years now, and will begin next dance season (January) as an advanced dancer.

And look at me . . . another example . . . I can sing and I do play an instrument and in WCS, hell, I can count to six!!!!

I think there is gray area somewhere. One where dancing really has nothing to do with musicians nor the music but self expression and how willing we are to express those emotions. I dance to just about any constant beat I hear, both around me or inside my head. I've even grooved to my heart beat while lying down as well as I've grooved to people running on treadmills.

I say so because, maybe I'm wrong about his dancing skills, but salsa's most acredited and arguably most bestest of the bestest toppest singer (Hector Lavoe) was a bad dancer. Eddie Palmieri can't dance... Yet Roberto Roena (world renown bongo player) can dance his booty off. All those guys definitely understand salsa better than anyone of us probably ever will, yet some can't dance and other can. Then, how much does it really help to express the body to be a musician? I just don't know what to say.

[Vince A]

Does being a musician hinders or helps your dance growth?

I ask because I have quite a few musician friends who are total knuckle heads when it comes to dancing.

I'm not sure, but someone once told me that musicians often have a hard time learning to dance because they are so used to expressing the music with just a part of their body (hands, mouths, feet, whetever) that they sometimes have a hard time dancing because you use your whole body.

Wow... What a POINT!!! Hmmm.... I guess the next step is moving the grooving with the mouth to the body.
Ah . . . most "singers" that I know also dance well. Case in point, my wife - an ex-professional singer - she has been competing for going on about 4 1/2 years now, and will begin next dance season (January) as an advanced dancer.

And look at me . . . another example . . . I can sing and I do play an instrument and in WCS, hell, I can count to six!!!!

I think there is gray area somewhere. One where dancing really has nothing to do with musicians nor the music but self expression and how willing we are to express those emotions. I dance to just about any constant beat I hear, both around me or inside my head. I've even grooved to my heart beat while lying down as well as I've grooved to people running on treadmills.

I say so because, maybe I'm wrong about his dancing skills, but salsa's most acredited and arguably most bestest of the bestest toppest singer (Hector Lavoe) was a bad dancer. Eddie Palmieri can't dance... Yet Roberto Roena (world renown bongo player) can dance his booty off. All those guys definitely understand salsa better than anyone of us probably ever will, yet some can't dance and other can. Then, how much does it really help to express the body to be a musician? I just don't know what to say.
I hear ya' . . .
I don't think there is or ever will be something quantifiable on this topic. Nor does it matter . . . I think it has something to do with our surroundings
as we grow up - our younger formulative years. Maybe we heard our parents play music a lot, or they were dancers, as in the case with my Mom. She was the (I don't know the years) NY State champion Jitterbug dancer . . . I grew up with this . . . which led me to being in a R&R band . . . and a great dancer as a (white) teen - imitating James Brown to "T."

[HF]

I ask because I have quite a few musician friends who are total knuckle heads when it comes to dancing.

I stumbled over this thread searching for something.

I have met very few classical musicians that can dance. Musicians are trained for fine motor manipulations and therefore do not find it easy to make big movements. And they are directing all the energy to some parts of the body while all others should be relaxed in order to be able to play for hours and hours.

In my own training I had to learn not to tap the beat with the foot because my teachers thought that would disturb my rhythmical feeling. They said that if I feel the beat of the music I could play it directly with my instrument instead of moving my feet ... which would occupy parts of my brain.

When I finally learnt to dance (at the age of 33) it helped me a lot with my music. I think it definitely became better, more playful, more accented. And since I dance salsa I have been learning a lot about rhythm that I did not know before.

[lynn]

I ask because I have quite a few musician friends who are total knuckle heads when it comes to dancing.

...I have met very few classical musicians that can dance. Musicians are trained for fine motor manipulations and therefore do not find it easy to make big movements. And they are directing all the energy to some parts of the body while all others should be relaxed in order to be able to play for hours and hours.

In my own training I had to learn not to tap the beat with the foot because my teachers thought that would disturb my rhythmical feeling. They said that if I feel the beat of the music I could play it directly with my instrument instead of moving my feet ... which would occupy parts of my brain.

When I finally learnt to dance (at the age of 33) it helped me a lot with my music. I think it definitely became better, more playful, more accented. And since I dance salsa I have been learning a lot about rhythm that I did not know before.

Hmm, interesting topic, here's my 2c:

I've started playing piano since 4 and has been doing so for the past 20+ years and had tried flute for several years (under mom's insistence b/c it makes me more "graceful" :roll: ), I'm not a musician but had my share of musical ventures.

As a follower, I find it EXTREMELY difficult when it comes to dancing because I react to music automatically. I tend to backlead a lot instead of follow (yes, bad, i know) because I'm so used to the music (& the fact that we use metronomes in classical training so we're precisely on the beat - so sorry for the many guys i'v stepped on b/c they didn't move fast enuf :oops: ). I can "feel" and count the music way faster than my teacher :D and have no problem with rhythm.

All in all, having classical training has its good and bad points, i suppose it would be more beneficial for the leaders to have musical training than the followers, but that may be just me.

[Laura]

I took five or six years of piano as a kid and was never very good at it because I could never get the part where you had to read the music down. However, it did teach me some about music. Many years later I started fooling around with DJing techno. Techno is beat-mixed, which means that one record is sped up or slowed down so that it runs at the same BPM as the other, and then the downbeats are matched up so they run simultaneously as if it were just one record. Mixing techno taught me a lot about phrasing, and it got me to the point of nearly instinctually knowing if I were on phrase or not, because even if you've got the beats matched if you've got the phrases off in some weird way then it won't sound so great. I was much better at DJing than I was at playing the piano.

Then I started dancing ballroom, and realized that I was just beat mixing with my whole body. It was really easy for me to understand that highlight moves are best danced at certain points in each phrase, and I've always been able to find the downbeat and dance on time. In fact, if my partner starts on the wrong beat (like on the 2 in foxtrot) or even in the wrong part of the phrase, it messes me up because I find there to be dissonnace between what I'm hearing and what I'm feeling in the dancing. My partner has never had any musical training, but I've been explaining to him what I'm hearing and why I prefer things to be done a certain way, and he's catching on. And it shows in our dancing -- someone remarked at the last competition we were in that we had impeccable timing.

[tsb]

Does being a musician hinders or helps your dance growth?

I ask because I have quite a few musician friends who are total knuckle heads when it comes to dancing.

I'm not sure, but someone once told me that musicians often have a hard time learning to dance because they are so used to expressing the music with just a part of their body (hands, mouths, feet, whetever) that they sometimes have a hard time dancing because you use your whole body.

i could see that being true of classically trained vocalists perhaps.

the breadth of my musical background is wider thatn most (voice training, strings, brass, arranging & conducting) so i probably have a non-typical perspective. but conducting undoubtedly had a significant influence on my lead - you have to communicate clearly your intentions on initiation of the song or phrase (like doing a physical prep/pickup), tempo with no physical contact whatsoever (maintaining a clear icthus (sp?) with your baton) and learning how to use body language to get a particular section of instruments to respond (more or less volume, deliberation, etc.)

i think the idea of lyric phrasing comes naturally to someone who's played a wind instrument - you HAVE to stop and take a breath - and if you're in any sort of band with a director WHERE you breathe is something you are forced to be aware of (i contrast this to certain popular vocalists who take breaths in the WORST places) - but memories of the idea of moving with the music seem to come from my string background.

the only drawbreak seems to come doing WCS as i'm listening to the orchestration & i anticipate breaks that don't come - but i would have put there.

[gte692h]

I ask because I have quite a few musician friends who are total knuckle heads when it comes to dancing.

They refuse to listen to what I say and the why dancers do it this or that way. They hear every beat, they even tell me when things are about to happen and why. Yet, they can't put those skills into the dancefloor. They just can't seem to break out of the mold that becuase there is 8 beats to 2 measures you don't have to step in all of them.

I actually think that it has more to do with stubborness than being musicians. Just wanted to know what DF thought about it. I think it helps, hence why I need to take those percussion classes I've been meaning to take.

boriken,

your question is very timely, because i have been taking conga lessons for the past 4 weeks. it has been the most fulfilling, satisfying and spiritual thing i have done for myself lately. just making the music that i love dancing to is the most incredible high. playing the congas just creates a huge energy around me - it attracts everybody to where i am playing. i practice at a studio when they have their salsa social, and i play along with the music.

i have definitely noticed that if i have been playing the congas for say, an hour and a half, and then i get up to dance, i feel stiff and my dancing is nowhere close to what it can be. although it might be because i have been sitting down for a long period, i also feel all my focus and energy in my hands. in fact, i remember my first dance after my extended conga session was a cha-cha, and i could barely move in the beginning. so i held my partner real close, and i played the basic tumbao on her lower and upper back, while dancing with my upper body.. it took some time for that focus to switch to my body, my hips, shoulders, etc.

i don't understand why percussionists would be bad dancers. i would attribute those to the individual ability. my dancing certainly hasn't deteriorated since i started playing the congas. in fact, i have noticed a big difference in my awareness of the basic step, because i understand the 'tumbao' better. so my body is more aware, and more vibrant in the basic, as i am dancing to every beat. plus, the sound and the vibration of the conga just has this huge effect on me - like when we sit in front of a campfire. its very primitive, and i have a strong, compelling attraction to it. that, to me, is very spiritual.

i would highly recommend that you not delay those percussion classes anymore.

[chandra]

I play flute too!
(well bamboo flute, does that count?)

I want to learn some music theory, i know none, and i find it difficult sometimes to hit breaks and such. (although im beter at it than some people i know...)

[Big10]

It is very interesting being on "the other side" now...for while my days as a musician are over...I still am there with the music...although I must admit I miss being up on the stage performing. One of these days though...I'm going to be out dancing to a live band and ask one of the saxophonists to let me have a quick solo... :P
I can think of a lot of instruments I might borrow during the middle of a song, but putting my mouth on somebody else's saxophone is way down at the bottom of the list.... :shock: :lol:

Anyway, all the references to playing the flute are interesting, since it reminds me of a remarkable experience I had just a couple of days ago. I went to a bar that had a Cuban band playing Salsa on Sunday afternoon/evening. Not many people were there (and even fewer were dancing), so I happened to strike up a conversation with a young woman sitting next to me and eventually we decided to dance. She had never had formal Salsa lessons, had only been a handful of times to Salsa clubs, and said she was learning to dance by dancing with guys who were better than she was. Well, her frame and size of her steps needed work -- but her timing was excellent! I led her through a few Salsas, gradually increasing the complexity of my moves during the evening, and she stayed on beat with everything! When the band played a Cha Cha, she said she had never danced Cha Cha before but was willing to try. Needless to say, I briefly showed her the basic step and later in the song she was even following 3 or 4 types of turns and coming out on beat. :shock: I couldn't believe that she hadn't had more dance training, so I eventually asked her if she had any musical training....and it turned out that she had played the flute for 12 years. :lol:

It was pretty amazing to dance with somebody who was that much of a sponge for learning moves and maintaining the beat throughout! (Oh, and I guess I didn't mention that I decided to teach her the cross-body lead, which she learned in about 2 minutes and was executing perfectly by the very next song, time after time....)

I've always believed that understanding the music has to help a person's dancing (and "dancing" is just another word for music interpretation," isn't it?), but I can understand some of the points made earlier in this thread about why certain types of musical training/experience would hinder the body coordination that is required.

[tacad]

hard to say. I'm so intuitive with music. I don't have to think about it almost at all. So on the one hand I have good timing. On the other hand I don't think about, say, salsa music and the different components so I don't ever grow in that respect. The other night I was waiting for a lesson to start so I listened to the salsa music playing. I started to listen to the various instruments and the syncopation they were using. Then for maybe the first time ever I listened to the singers. :shock: Hey, these songs do sound different from each other! If I weren't so musical I might have tried to figure this out a long time ago. Just to be able to find 'one'. But since I can always find 'one' I never had to.

Nevertheless I will say it's an advantage. Especially now as I'm consciously trying to learn as opposed to just going along.

[tsb]

when it comes to listening to music it is actually more of a disadvantage if we're caught up in analyzing proficiencies such as intonation & technique than appreciating the lyricism. if something in a song somehow disrupts my aestethics (especially in a live band) i don't dance as well.

[tacad]

Very true. (And what the heck am I still doing up? :roll: ) However, I am thinking more of when I learned (from Russell) that a cha cha has a cha-cha-cha on the 4-and-1 and this corresponds to the cha-cha-cha in the dance, well, I started to dance differently. Same with rhumba. I can't describe it now as I keep forgetting to listen for it :roll: but in many rhumbas there is a series of beats before you take your second step. I dance differently when I take this into account.
Heck, I can even dance to AT music while not dancing AT since I realized that the tempo varies in the song and so I dance in the same way I used to ad-lib
playing trumpet in jazz to similar tempo-changing songs.

Your point is well taken, however. There's nothing worse than dancing to String of Pearls when that trumpet solo comes on. It is always totally distracting. At that moment, I would rather be playing the trumpet solo than dancing. :shock: :oops: :roll:

[cocodrilo]

I have dabbled with guitar, bass and clarinet in high school, but really loved my opera training best. I have been singing (semi-pro) for 20 years and dancing for about 3 years. Don't know if being a musician has helped with my dancing but I know it helps me appreciate the music I am dancing to(never listened to anything latin before I started dancing salsa).

[luh]

I ask because I have quite a few musician friends who are total knuckle heads when it comes to dancing.

They refuse to listen to what I say and the why dancers do it this or that way. They hear every beat, they even tell me when things are about to happen and why. Yet, they can't put those skills into the dancefloor. They just can't seem to break out of the mold that becuase there is 8 beats to 2 measures you don't have to step in all of them.

I actually think that it has more to do with stubborness than being musicians. Just wanted to know what DF thought about it. I think it helps, hence why I need to take those percussion classes I've been meaning to take.

Musicality definetly helps dancing, but just because you know sth, doesn't mean you can put that into your body. I experienced that people which learn to dance, that are musicians fight fewer problems when learning dancing. People who have no musicality do often have to fight more problems, one of them is rythm.
luh

[Ms_Sunlight]

I don't know as I would call myself a musician, but I did learn piano and some classical guitar as a child and did quite a bit of music theory. My ear is good, it's my fine motor skills that are lacking! It seems that I find it very easy to pick up the beat, and to work around the beat. I have a good understanding of syncopation. I don't know if that's because of the training or if I enjoyed learning about music because that was something that came easy to me anyway.

That's the real question: is it the musical training that makes the dancing easier, or is it that part of the talent that makes it easier for some people to play music is also something that makes it easier to learn to dance?

[cocodrilo]

Good question, Ms Sunlight! I would have to say that the talent part has a lot to do with it. Same goes with sports and learning a foreign language. Some people just have the knack for it (it is talent) and some people end up struggling with it all their lives.

[Sabor]

for the true musical dancer.. musicality sets them appart from the crowd in the most attractive of ways.. infact, after all is said and done.. all the techniques and styles learned .. it is this issue that keeps u in love with it and fuels the passion..

dont dance 0n 1 or on2 or on3 or contra or clave or NY style or LA or Cuban or etc.. etc.. but.. baila con tiempos!!.. u are not dancing to the number .. u dance to the instrument/s .. highlight the conga.. the bass.. now the piano.. now the clave.. if u lead it well withing the general 8 beats .. u can achieve core beauty .. ongoing enlightenment.. ecstasy

[tacad]

And being stirred by the girl is always helpful. :wink:

[Twilight_Elena]

I played the piano when I was younger and it has helped me a lot in understanding the beats. On the other hand, my best friend just can't hear the beats as clear because she never had any musical training.
Basic musical background helps a lot. But perhaps too much of it is also too much for dancing.

Twilight Elena

[Brush Tap]

Another flute player here! I think that being a musician definitely gives us an edge in first, hearing the beat, and second, understanding the music. However, there is a distinction between hearing the beat, understanding the music, and also being able to coordinate your body to move correctly and in accordance with it. And, I'm guessing that there are some musicians that have fantastic dexterity in their fingers, mouths, whatever they use to make music but have trouble coordinating the feet and the rest of the body. (This brings to mind an old friend who was a very accomplished violinist... and an absolute menace when it came to any other kind of physical or athletic activity!) Perhaps if we have a physician or biomedical engineer in our midst he or she could enlighten us a bit about the biomechanics of this.

[Kuriin]

Helps.

Being musically sensitive is grand.

[dancin/dj]

for the true musical dancer.. musicality sets them appart from the crowd in the most attractive of ways.. infact, after all is said and done.. all the techniques and styles learned .. it is this issue that keeps u in love with it and fuels the passion..

dont dance 0n 1 or on2 or on3 or contra or clave or NY style or LA or Cuban or etc.. etc.. but.. baila con tiempos!!.. u are not dancing to the number .. u dance to the instrument/s .. highlight the conga.. the bass.. now the piano.. now the clave.. if u lead it well withing the general 8 beats .. u can achieve core beauty .. ongoing enlightenment.. ecstasy this is true 8)

[dancin/dj]

Another flute player here! I think that being a musician definitely gives us an edge in first, hearing the beat, and second, understanding the music. However, there is a distinction between hearing the beat, understanding the music, and also being able to coordinate your body to move correctly and in accordance with it. And, I'm guessing that there are some musicians that have fantastic dexterity in their fingers, mouths, whatever they use to make music but have trouble coordinating the feet and the rest of the body. (This brings to mind an old friend who was a very accomplished violinist... and an absolute menace when it came to any other kind of physical or athletic activity!) Perhaps if we have a physician or biomedical engineer in our midst he or she could enlighten us a bit about the biomechanics of this. this is also true 8) ,as some may know here, i've been a musican for 30 years-dj for 5 and a dancer for 8,none of this can be put in a box and wraped up,i've played with all kinds of musicans-some are so strick and by the rules only others are so free and natural,and i've danced with dancers like this also as im sure all of you have.i know musicans who dance really good and some who cant dance for squat, i does have a advantage being a musicans (to me) only if you can do what sabor said :wink: ,and i think you can sometimes transfer some of that too your partner so she feels it this way also-some ladies already do on there own which is great,but not all,now everybody go and listen to some cool music :) without dancing too it 8)

[tsb]

this is also true 8) ,as some may know here, i've been a musican for 30 years-dj for 5 and a dancer for 8,none of this can be put in a box and wraped up, i've played with all kinds of musicans-some are so strick and by the rules only others are so free and natural.

i wonder if there's an observable difference between jazz, combo & ensemble musicians/accompanists and those used to performing individually; the best ensemble musicans make each other sound better & tend to be more aware of what everyone else is doing at any given moment. virtuosi seldom have to be concerned with that.

this probably also is connected to those who are able to be more lyrical & improvisational vs. those inclined to play/sing exactly what's written.

[HF]

i wonder if there's an observable difference between jazz, combo & ensemble musicians/accompanists and those used to performing individually; the best ensemble musicans make each other sound better & tend to be more aware of what everyone else is doing at any given moment. virtuosi seldom have to be concerned with that.

this probably also is connected to those who are able to be more lyrical & improvisational vs. those inclined to play/sing exactly what's written.

This sounds very reasonable and will probably also be true for classical ensemble musicians vs. soloists.

I tried to play string quartet professionally for more than two years ... in an earlier life 8) Although I played first violin (mostly melody) I learned to have an extra ear for all my companions that should never close even if I was more than busy with my part. This is not only a musical question but also a view of life and should help a lot at dancing.

Funnily also I am a really bass orientated being since then because the cello was my natural counterpart - in most music I follow the bass more than the melody ... and find myself often singing the bass while dancing salsa ... :wink:

[tsb]

i wonder if there's an observable difference between jazz, combo & ensemble musicians/accompanists and those used to performing individually; the best ensemble musicans make each other sound better & tend to be more aware of what everyone else is doing at any given moment. virtuosi seldom have to be concerned with that.

this probably also is connected to those who are able to be more lyrical & improvisational vs. those inclined to play/sing exactly what's written.

This sounds very reasonable and will probably also be true for classical ensemble musicians vs. soloists.

I tried to play string quartet professionally for more than two years ... in an earlier life 8) Although I played first violin (mostly melody) I learned to have an extra ear for all my companions that should never close even if I was more than busy with my part. This is not only a musical question but also a view of life and should help a lot at dancing.

Funnily also I am a really bass orientated being since then because the cello was my natural counterpart - in most music I follow the bass more than the melody ... and find myself often singing the bass while dancing salsa ... :wink:

doom DOOM doom, doom DOOM doom (dotted quarter, dotted quarter, quarter)

[luh]

okay, i guess i have to update what i said.
I just had a week with musicians and they asked me to teach them. They ALL learned incredbly fast (comparing to people from my classes, or previous courses i gave), had the feeling, and most of them didn't even dance before. I was really surprised how fast they learned how to lindy and charleston.
luh

[basicarita]

And being stirred by the girl is always helpful. :wink:

Some of us musicians are actually girls (I know, *gasp*) so we have to be stirred by the guy instead. :together:

[pygmalion]

Bump

[Terciel]

Thank you pygmalion for the bump, this is a great thread, and I haven't delved back nearly far enough into the archives to have discovered it myself.

As a musician (trombone and euphonium) I can definitely say that being a musician is a tremendous help. First and foremost reason being that recognizing the downbeat and staying on time to the music is essentially second nature by this point. It is also my experience that musicians in general tend to be fast learners in general, and I venture to guess this has something to do with ability to sightread or quickly learn new music.

I'm curious, did anyone else do marching band, and if so, was that in particular helpful to your dancing? It seems to me that we're already used to moving the feet in time to music, and if you marched somewhere good, probably done some sort of choreography to music as well. In theory we should be able to pick up dancing with relative ease. But my sample size is exceptionally limited (only myself and one saxophone player), so I can't generalize this theory.

I've mentioned this in another thread or two already, but marching concepts such as horn carriage, posture, and marching on a slide translate very well to frame, posture, and CBM(P). In theory, this should also give us something of an advantage.

[pygmalion]

Hmm. Interesting. I never connected my marching band experience to dance. Must ponder. :cool:

[nucat78]

Hmm. Interesting. I never connected my marching band experience to dance. Must ponder. :cool:

Makes merengue REALLY easy. ;)

Being amateur musicians helped both me and DW, although she did teach aerobic dancing for several years. One thing drove me nuts when I was an absolute nube though - 6 counts to a bronze foxtrot basic step when there are 4 counts to a measure.

[fascination]

I think just about any association with music can be helpful or hurtful to dance depending upon whether or not that aspect of it requires a similar thing...for instance, when I teach step and when I cantor, those tow things require me to move or start singing before the actual tempo...not a good tendency when carried over to ballroom...on the other hand, the ability to remember choreo or to understand elements of how to count music or feel it I already have a nice advantage that carries over because I have played three instruments, had lots of choral experience and teach a variety of group fitness classes to music

[BenjaminT]

Hi, my name is Benjamin, and I played percussion for seven years.:oops:

Me, personally, my background has helped me with leading, yet it can drive me insane at times.

I don't hear the beat, I feel it. You could kill the audio after I started dancing to a song and, if it's strict tempo, when you turn it back on I'd be on beat and not dropped a single measure. Or, I could stop everything and be able to start back on the beat without an audio cue. It's like a non-stop internal metronome. As long as I'm on-beat, it stays very quiet in the back of my mind.

Human error is where things go wrong and the 'nome is no longer quiet. When there is even the slightest change in tempo or I get off beat it's very loud inside my head.

As far as drummers in general being good dancers or not, couldn't say. The only anecdote I have to offer is from marching band. Most drummers cannot mark off 8-to-5 (eight steps to five yards) to save their lives. Maybe that has something to do with proprioception. I could march the entire show with my eyes closed and hit every mark in practice. They would be off by ten feet every pattern and relied heavily on guiding off of each other. It's like they had no peripheral vision.

The only frustrating thing I've found is dancing with "melody listeners." There are quite a few non-strict tempo songs where only the vocals are vamped but the beat is solid.

[pygmalion]

The only frustrating thing I've found is dancing with "melody listeners." There are quite a few non-strict tempo songs where only the vocals are vamped but the beat is solid.


Interesting observation, Benjamin. :-D Hadn't thought about it that way. But then, I'm not a drummer, and you very obviously are.

[j_alexandra]

Hi, my name is Benjamin, and I played percussion for seven years.:oops:

Hi, Benjamin!

I don't hear the beat, I feel it. You could kill the audio after I started dancing to a song and, if it's strict tempo, when you turn it back on I'd be on beat and not dropped a single measure. Or, I could stop everything and be able to start back on the beat without an audio cue. It's like a non-stop internal metronome. As long as I'm on-beat, it stays very quiet in the back of my mind.

Human error is where things go wrong and the 'nome is no longer quiet. When there is even the slightest change in tempo or I get off beat it's very loud inside my head.

And your problem with this is? I have the same internal metronome -- although I was never a percussionist -- and it has served me well as a dancer. Really well.

The only frustrating thing I've found is dancing with "melody listeners." There are quite a few non-strict tempo songs where only the vocals are vamped but the beat is solid.

True. Can you say Sinatra? Often a problem for me; I want to dance to his voice and phrasing, not the band. My very, very bad.:oops:

[Terciel]

Most drummers cannot mark off 8-to-5 (eight steps to five yards) to save their lives.

It is my experience that drumline players tend to be either quite good or quite bad, and I have no idea why this is the case. The "stereotypical" high school drumline player is somewhat incompetent, lazy, a jock, or pothead (this is only my experience, I truly don't mean to offend anyone who came from a good drumline). But on the other hand, the exceptions are quite good at what they do. You are obviously one of those exceptions.

In my high school marching band, drumline was the most incompetent section, definitely. In college, drumline still liked to party, a LOT, but some were also pretty good. And in drum corps, drumline was a pretty chill bunch of bros, and they were all freakishly good.

So perhaps the best generalization I can draw from this is that marching experience is more helpful if you were actually good at it?