Latin Heel Height Problem

[fireinflight]

I'm new to the forums, and glad to be here!

So, I have very small feet, around English size 1.5 for Latin shoes, and I've been trying for about six months to find a pair of Latin shoes that I really feel comfortable in. (I've been dancing for one year, but I just used practice shoes at the beginning). One thing I've discovered is that I have a lot of trouble dancing in 2.5 inch heels. It's not so much the stability that's a problem, but I feel like I have to take very small steps in order to have my toe hit the ground before my heel.

I assume this is probably because I can't point my toe far enough, or something like that? When I point my toe in bare feet, the line from my leg down across the top of my foot is approximately straight. Should I be able to point farther than this? Can anyone recommend some stretching/strengthening exercises that would help with this?

Right now, I think I'll just order a pair of two inch heels, even though they're not very sexy, since I really need a pair of Latin shoes, but I don't want to wear a heel height that I'm uncomfortable with. I guess maybe the fact that my feet are very small makes it harder to wear higher heels? Anyway, any advice anyone can give would be very much welcome!!

(On a side note, does any brand other than Diamant have sizes down to a 1.5? So far I've tried Diamant and Supadance size 2's, and they're too big. I hope size 1.5 will fit, when I order it!)

[and123]

I just looked at dancesport.uk.com in their "sale stock" shoes, and they had several size 1.5 pairs. I think they were all Rummos, with various heel heights. International makes latin shoes in size 1.5, but since they're listed in the children's section, they're only available in 1.5" or 2" heels. I'm sure you could special order other heels though.

[fluffy]

The top dancers have incredible points, more like ballet dancers, which do go noticeably more than 180 degrees. I've no idea how to achieve that though, I would also be interested, even though I don't really do latin.

Good luck with finding shoes to fit, I think special orders may be your best bet.

[Joe]

Obviously if you have smaller shoe a 3" heel is going to be proportionally taller than on a large shoe and there will be a bigger angle.

[Me]

Well, I know a little bit more about feet because of years of intense ballet training. I’m no instructor, so I do not know if what I do technically applies. But, I always receive compliments on my footwork in Latin and in Argentine Tango, so I must be doing something right?

To obtain a longer line when you pointe your foot, you don't pointe harder or further. You use a little optical illusion that most of my instructors called 'bevel'. It is a slight break in line at the ankle from stretching your toes upward that gives the illusion of a longer line. This foot position is opposite to sickling your foot, which breaks the line in an unpleasant way that shortens your line. (I cannot find any pictures online. I'm sorry!)

Do you dance your Latin on the inside edges of your feet? If you use the inside edges of your feet, beveling comes naturally.



Since you wear what I think is an American size 3 shoe (or thereabouts) very high heels may present a problem for you. If you already have to take shortened steps, I'd wager the heels are too high. Can you rise and lower in them for bolero? If you cannot adequately rise and lower in them, you should go down. Now, I'm no professional when it comes to shoes, so you should talk to your instructor about this I think! :)

I don't know what to tell you about finding shoes. :( Your size is very hard to find, I would think. You may end up having to order custom made shoes. A lot of people I know really like mrtangoshoes.com, but I've never tried it.

[fireinflight]

Thank you all for your help! I'm actually going to order from Best Ballroom Shoes - they have lots of very small (even smaller than my size!) and narrow shoes. Also very large and wide sizes, although that isn't my problem. Plus they offered to send out a few pairs I could try on, and waive the restocking fee. I'm very excited about getting shoes that actually fit, since I've danced in poorly fitting shoes for so long, and it's been so uncomfortable!

I guess my problem with pointing is not so much having a pretty toe line (although that is very important!) but in raising my heel higher off the floor so that I can take larger forward steps without hitting the heel of my shoe on the ground. I assume this would probably require a larger than 180 degree point.

I don't know about Bolero, I dance International Latin. I notice it most in Cha-Cha, the forward lock steps are very uncomfortable. There's a part in our routine where I do a bunch of forward locks in a row with my partner behind me, and he would always run into me because my steps were so small!

I hope that sometime I can work up to wearing 2.5 inch heels - my partner was not too happy with me that I could only wear the 2 inch ones. Plus, 2.5 inches is so much better looking!

[yanka]

To obtain a longer line when you pointe your foot, you don't pointe harder or further. You use a little optical illusion that most of my instructors called 'bevel'. It is a slight break in line at the ankle from stretching your toes upward that gives the illusion of a longer line. This foot position is opposite to sickling your foot, which breaks the line in an unpleasant way that shortens your line. (I cannot find any pictures online. I'm sorry!)

Do you dance your Latin on the inside edges of your feet? If you use the inside edges of your feet, beveling comes naturally.


Sorry, but could you explain this a little more? I can't get a mental image of what you're describing.

[fireinflight]

Ack! Apparently the shoes that were just listed normally on the website are actually special order and will take two months to arrive! So sad :( And I was hoping to avoid that! Probably by the time they actually arrive I'll have stretched my ankles enough that I *would* be able to wear the 2.5 inch heels! (I've been pointing my toes obsessively under my desk in my office, trying to get them to point farther.) I just hope the shoes fit, since I can't return them if they don't.

Anyone know of any online video where I can watch the feet of a good latin dancer? They sometimes wear 4 inch heels to dance in, right?

[waltzgirl]

Fif, do they have any shoes in stock in your size, no matter what the style? If you could try them on, you might get a better idea of whether that brand seems compatible with your feet, before you special order. It won't tell you how the shoes you do buy will fit exactly, but it might be better than buying blind. There are a couple of manufacturers whose shoes just feel bad on my feet and that's been true of various styles of that brand.

[fireinflight]

Nope, my size doesn't exist :) Only Diamant and Rummos seem to make down to a 1.5. There's a nearby store that carries Diamant, but the lady adamantly claimed that they don't make any smaller than a size 2 (probably so that I would buy the shoe that didn't fit!), and I don't know anywhere that carries Rummos. I could possibly wear a size 2 narrow, but I don't know anywhere with that size either.

So it sounds like my answer is special order and a few months of prayer!

[and123]

I replied to this but apparently it was lost in the Black Hole last night :confused:

OK. I don't want to come across as a b*tch, but it shouldn't matter to you or anyone else that 2.5" heels look better if you're not comfortable dancing in them. Perhaps someday it will be feasible, but for now it's probably best that you settle for the 2" heels that are readily available in children's sizes. I did see some size 1.5-2 latin sandals with 3" heels listed in dancesport.uk.com's sale stock, but.... :shock: I can't imagine how anyone with such a small foot could wear such high heels! If you want to increase the heel height a bit, you can always add plastic heel protectors. If you buy the ones for flared heels and cut them down, with a bit of effort they *will* fit over the 2" heels.

As for incredible Latin feet, I've always been amazed by Shirley Ballas. This isn't the greatest example of her feet, but hopefully you can still see what I mean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwh05jyMHRs

[waltzgirl]

I agree with and123 about getting shoes that are comfortable and that you can move well in.

Look at this way. I'm at the other end of the range, wear a size 10 (or even 11 sometimes). My foot is 10 1/12 inches long. So a 3" heel is a bit less than 1/3 of my foot length. It's probably 1/2 (or more?) of your foot length. So your foot is going to have to make a MUCH sharper angle at the ankle to wear that high a shoe than mine (not that I wear shoes that high-my feet can't take it!), so that will make it harder for you to use your feet and to move in general. Why put yourself at an overall disadvantage just to gain a bit of heel height?

[waltzgirl]

That was an interesting video. One thing I noticed is that when she was arching her feet, she kept her toes flat on the ground, with quite a bend between the toes and the foot. Maybe that's what Me meant when she was talking about beveling? (I wasn't clear on that, either.) My foot joints are not that flexible, but it does look like more of an arch when I try to do that, compared to pointing my toes straight.

For increasing the arch, Discount Dance Supply has a contraption that is supposed to help. But it looks like an instrument of torture and is pretty expensive, so I'd want to het advice (from a ballet teacher, maybe?) before I considered that.

DDS also sells arch "falsies" for ballet dancers! They are padded wraps that go around the foot and make it look like you have more of an arch. I wonder if that would work for us if we wore them under fishnets?

[Roadrunner]

Sorry, but could you explain this a little more? I can't get a mental image of what you're describing.

I'm not sure exactly what the original poster was referring to as I've never heard of such an exercise, however I do know that to "sickle" your foot is to let it roll to the outside edge (towards your pinkie toe) which is almost always a bad thing in whatever dance you're doing. So it makes sense to me that "bevelling" must mean to roll your foot to the inside edge, towards your big toe, which is a common practice in the latin dances.

[yanka]

I'm not sure exactly what the original poster was referring to as I've never heard of such an exercise, however I do know that to "sickle" your foot is to let it roll to the outside edge (towards your pinkie toe) which is almost always a bad thing in whatever dance you're doing. So it makes sense to me that "bevelling" must mean to roll your foot to the inside edge, towards your big toe, which is a common practice in the latin dances.

I figured as much, but Me mentioned breaking the line at the ankle. Does this mean turning the foot in, out, or in some other direction to 'break the line'? Seems like any of these are possible...

[Me]

Sorry, but could you explain this a little more? I can't get a mental image of what you're describing.


Err... of which part? Of beveling the foot, or of dancing on the inside edges of your feet?

I don't have any pictures myself, and I cannot find much online. The best I can do is provide a picture of a ballerina beveling her foot - http://www.galadanza.com/images/Arabesque.jpg Obviously her arabesque is quite high as it is, but see how the line is extended, and the leg appears higher, because the toes are stretched upward, creating a break in the ankle, or 'bevel'? I cannot find any pictures of a sickled foot, or I guess in the case of an arabesque en l'air, a floppy foot. I found this about dancing on the inside edges of the feet. Not very detailed, but should help you better visualize, with the pictures on the bottom... http://www.ballroomdancers.com/Learning_Center/Technique/Foot_Positions/

[yanka]

Err... of which part? Of beveling the foot, or of dancing on the inside edges of your feet?

I don't have any pictures myself, and I cannot find much online. The best I can do is provide a picture of a ballerina beveling her foot - http://www.galadanza.com/images/Arabesque.jpg Obviously her arabesque is quite high as it is, but see how the line is extended, and the leg appears higher, because the toes are stretched upward, creating a break in the ankle, or 'bevel'? I cannot find any pictures of a sickled foot, or I guess in the case of an arabesque en l'air, a floppy foot. I found this about dancing on the inside edges of the feet. Not very detailed, but should help you better visualize, with the pictures on the bottom... http://www.ballroomdancers.com/Learning_Center/Technique/Foot_Positions/

The beveling of the foot was my question; I already dance on the inside edge.
Unfortunately, I can't open the first picture you posted :(

[delamusica]

I guess my problem with pointing is not so much having a pretty toe line (although that is very important!) but in raising my heel higher off the floor so that I can take larger forward steps without hitting the heel of my shoe on the ground. I assume this would probably require a larger than 180 degree point.

I wear a 2.5 wide, and I had the same issue with being able to pick my heel up off the ground in a high heeled shoe. After years of trying to dance in a 2.5" heel, I bought a pair of 2" . . . and my dancing drastically improved. I found that working with a shorter heel for awhile was key in strengthening my feet (since I could finally use them properly) to the point that I could handle the 2.5" shoe.

And also, how is the size 2 shoe too big? If it's too loose, try adding some insoles. If it's too long, it may be possible to have a cobbler shorten the amount of leather at the front. Altering shoes that you have may be yeild better results than buying blind.

This website has some children's size shoes that are styled very much like adult shoes (with a cuban heel instead of that clunky block heel they usually have) - you might check it out:

http://www.dancesport-international.com/?initial_record=10&action=sub&subcat_id=3&cat=3&sid=7959dkva7bjnbf6b9290mvhce1

[danceallstyles]

It's always a good idea to start with a lower heel. I don't have the greatest feet in the world, luckily I'm a guy and don't have to wear 2.5 inch heels. But I do a couple of different excercises to get my feet better. First of all, sitting on your heels helps, and you can do it while you're watching TV. Just put a pillow under your knees. Also, do you do any Yoga? There is a position called Downward Dog. In it you have your palms on the floor, your hips to the ceiling and you try and push your heels to the floor, keeping your legs straight - like you're a giant inverted V. If you flip or feet over so that the tops are on the floor and continue in this position, it is a great stretch for your ankles and the arches of your feet. Make sure you massage your feet afterwards.

[fireinflight]

Thanks very much everyone! Yeah, maybe I'll just try the children's shoes. Last night I tried on my old 2.5'' shoes, and comparing the angle of my foot to the angle that other dancers at my level have in their shoes, it seems pretty silly to stress over the heel height. And my dancing definitely is much better in my 1.5'' practice shoes. Probably the children's shoes I'm less likely to have to special order, too.

I'll definitely add those toe-pointing stretches to my stretching routine!