Dancing in a Slot

[quixotedlm]

How do you convey the idea to the follower, during a dance, that you would very much like her (or him) to keep the slot? I find it very difficult to protect followers who don't maintain the slot from being stampeded by nearby dancers. Also, my repertoire of moves assumes a slot, and many a times, I have to consciously avoid doing turn-patterns that depend on the slot to work smoothly. This extra-bit of thinking makes dancing a tad bit less enjoyable, somtimes...

Do you get annoyed if your partner isn't dancing in a slot? esp. if you are a leader? If you don't get annoyed, then does it at least bother you? Would you date someone who doesn't dance in a slot? ;)

(I'm not talking about Casino Rueda or Cuban salsa. Just think of it as regular ET-On2 or WC On1 salsa. Assume that both leader and follower in question are adept at their roles, but the follower has merely have not been introduced to the idea of a dancing-line or a slot.)

[thespina13]

I've never been told to maintain the slot during regular social dancing. I find it highly off-putting during "fun" social dancing to be coached. I don't find it at all bothersome during class or practice. If you need to bring it up during a social dance, I would find time to sit next to the follow in question, and ask her if she wants to exchange notes, or ask how you could improve. If she's open to it, she might want notes from you. Compliment her dancing a lot before you get into the criticism. This totally depends on her though. This is likely how i would prefer to be approached, but I can't speak for everyone.

In general, coaching a follow on maintaining a slot requires more time and practice than dropping a request mid-dance during a social event. It requires her to undo her muscle memory, tighten her steps, be newly conscious of her motion, and could really lead to a WAY worse dance, because now she's self-conscious and thinking too much, instead of just enjoying the dance. Do you have favorite follows who have no problems with dancing in the slot? Enjoy your dances with them and have patience with the ones who are still working on it.

Also, if an ET_on2 or a WC on1 dancer is "adept", as you put it, they will be effortlessly dancing in a slot. There is no non-cuban dancing that doesn't operate within a slot. (am i talking out of my ass here?) People who don't adhere to it are still at a beginner's level and are still learning. They therefore require patience and practice, advice in a practice setting, and discretion and relaxed FUN in a social setting. They need to feel accepted and un-evaluated. Advanced, adept dancers shouldn't have this problem.

[noobster]

How do you convey the idea to the follower, during a dance, that you would very much like her (or him) to keep the slot?How did she get out of the slot in the first place? Is she going places you aren't leading her? If that's happening, I would suggest progressively making the lead clearer and clearer, with simpler and simpler moves, until she is staying where you want her to be. E.g., you could eventually work it down to just CBLs and single turns, where you keep one hand on her back at all times. She won't be able to leave the slot. She might think you are a boring leader, but you probably don't want to dance with her again anyway if you find her wandering ways so irritating. ;)

[thespina13]

totally.

[GTO Bruin]

How did she get out of the slot in the first place? Is she going places you aren't leading her? If that's happening, I would suggest progressively making the lead clearer and clearer, with simpler and simpler moves, until she is staying where you want her to be. E.g., you could eventually work it down to just CBLs and single turns, where you keep one hand on her back at all times. She won't be able to leave the slot. She might think you are a boring leader, but you probably don't want to dance with her again anyway if you find her wandering ways so irritating. ;)

I've found that more often than not, if a beginner follower goes out of a slot without my leading her there, it is when she gets off track trying to complete a CBL with inside turn. I never say anything since trying to stay in the slot isn't the answer, but rather the issue of getting off track will resolve as their turning skills improve.

[quixotedlm]

thespina - i suppose i wasn't clear. the question was not about verbal cues. when i said 'adept', i was referring to followers, who when taken aside in after a class or a practice session and explained about dancing in a slot, would easily take to it without too much trouble. Pretty much nobody around here who teaches on-1 salsa ever mentions dancing in a slot. So even good followers learn better following and thereby implicitly stay in the slot if the leader never breaks away, but they are rarely conscious of it themselves. I've talked to 2-3 followers about this, and they all agree that the only reason they learned about this concept is because a fairly good leader told them about it by taking them aside in a social dance etc. My question pertained to non-verbal ways of showing a follower that we are dancing in a slot...

also, LA style on-1 isn't very strict about a dancing line. the orientation of the line changes all the time :)

noobster - i was thinking along those lines, but like you mentioned, it makes the dance less interesting. also, if the follower doesn't naturally want to do it, even CBL's can go out of the slot, esp. if the CBL is happening when you aren't quite facing the follower :)

[noobster]

also, LA style on-1 isn't very strict about a dancing line. the orientation of the line changes all the time :) It seems like that happens in NY on-2 as well, when there is room for it. But if you are cheek to cheek with the couple next to you, out of necessity the slots tend to solidify a little more.

noobster - i was thinking along those lines, but like you mentioned, it makes the dance less interesting. also, if the follower doesn't naturally want to do it, even CBL's can go out of the slot, esp. if the CBL is happening when you aren't quite facing the follower :)Well, I think if the slot-thing is really bothering you you will have to sacrifice something of the freedom in the rest of your dance to compensate for it. I suppose you could continue to lead more complicated moves but try to keep a hand on her back when possible. If this is obvious enough to become awkward she may start to think you are a little sleazy though. :D

Seriously, if the slot-adherent followers were told about the concept, maybe you should spread the word and talk to them about it also. After the dance of course. :)

[Josh]

How do you convey the idea to the follower, during a dance, that you would very much like her (or him) to keep the slot?

The best way to keep the follower in the slot is to make sure that you're the hell out of it. (cursing for emphasis) So many guys block the lady's path when she needs to come through the slot that she has to go around him to get through. So, give her a path, and lead her through it.

Pretty much nobody around here who teaches on-1 salsa ever mentions dancing in a slot.

also, LA style on-1 isn't very strict about a dancing line. the orientation of the line changes all the time :)

That's very surprising to hear! Wow, I mean, to me, LA style implies the slot...

While many LA dancers aren't strict about maintaining the slot, it's really an essential element of the style.. I know what you mean though... I've seen videos where guys flip the slot around, and it's annoying as hell to watch lol :wink:

[squirrel]

I agree Josh. I thought the very essence of LA and NY was SLOT dancing. And I am keeping my slot, mind me! :)

Changing the line may occur, but not going all the places all the time. Since CBL is supposed to be taught as a change of places on a slot, one should be able to maintain this straight line.

[sweavo]

I agree at first glance with the "progressively clearer lead" part, but just mind that you don't end up getting tougher and tougher with no progress. I think that's gonna end up frustrating both of you and devaluing the experience of that particular dance all round.

When I get this situation, I try a few things:
1) Check my leading, that I really am isolating my hands and leading her in straight lines
2) try a "cuban walkthrough" or two with a really emphasized archway, really making sure I have cleared her lane
3) take her into partner hold and dance closer so that I can control her location
4) go around her rather than have her move around
5) let her do what the hell she likes, and accommodate her travelling

For me it's all good, unless she really is uncontrollable and it's a crowded floor, when it becomes quite hard to avoid collisions.

A follower like this is usually a good opportunity to work on two aspects of "accomodating the follower" in the lead:
1) Dialect: Try to learn her "language" and provide a lead that ends up with her doing what you intended
2) Sticking: If she overtravels, move yourself and the slot so that your positions relative to one another are always correct.

These are usually fun games in themselves which is why I am usually as happy to dance with a rank beginner as with a highly-tuned expert!

Regarding moving the slot around, I sure as hell ( :-) )don't find this annoying when people do it on stage... The only rational reason I can see for getting annoyed at people moving the slot around on the dance floor is if you're sharing the floor with them and thus have a vested interest in predicting where they are going to be in the next few beats.

[Vibrance]

Mmm…I’ve relatively new to salsa (nine months) and this whole slot/floor-craft thing has caught me out totally. I was aware that it is my responsibility to avoid collisions, but the concept of ‘sticking to your slot’ has never been taught, nor had it occurred to me. I’ve always be told that floor craft is something that comes with time, however if I was also told about the above I think I would have learnt it a lot quicker.

I do most of my dancing after lessons, not at big salsa events, this is because salsa all-nighters tend to have such crowded dance floors – indeed because of this lack of space I am really prejudiced against them.

I wonder how much my own and other people’s lack of understanding contribute to such events being so unpleasant?

I suppose a reason I haven’t been told this is because I’m learning a mish mash of Cuban and LA style, nevertheless the concept of sticking to your slot isn’t exactly hard to grasp…

Thanks again DFers – you’ve given me something else to think about – I will concentrate on staying in the slot when I dance after class tonight.

[Lita_rulez]

I agree Josh. I thought the very essence of LA and NY was SLOT dancing. And I am keeping my slot, mind me! :)

Changing the line may occur, but not going all the places all the time. Since CBL is supposed to be taught as a change of places on a slot, one should be able to maintain this straight line.

Well, both On1 and On2 (and again either kind of On2) are by definition slot dances.

But though you are supposed to dance in a line, the line itself can move. Further more, when on the floor of a much overcrouded event, the slot is supposed to move from time to time in order to avoid all those loony dancers crouding YOUR dance space...

The surprising thing though (to me) is to hear that LA Style is less rigid then On2, for the first thing I was tought in my first On2 class was that the style is mechanicaly smoother, and thus less enclined to be bound to a rigid slot...


But as far as CBL being in essence a changing of position, this does not necessarily implies a slot, since a Cuban DQN is basicaly a change of position as musch as a CBL (follow goes from right side of lead to his left side) except for the tiny difference that she is more moving on a 90° patern then 180 as a CBL ;)

[squirrel]

Sure, but I was referring to CBL, not DQN, as we are discussing slot dancing, not Cuban. :)

[Sagitta]

Part of dancing is communicating with each other. That is what makes it great! If the follower does not maintain the slot and that is what you desire there are ways to do it as people have suggested..such as a firmer lead, dancing closer so that any deviations are not magnified...or speed things up...or slow things down (Also see **). Sometimes when a person is going a little over the top I increase the speed and the increased attention required by the follower gets the person on track. Or sometimes I slow it down, taking time to even do someting over a couple basics, but being firmer so the follower has no choice but to maintain the line/direction I suggest as a means of showing what I like...and then gradually speed it up to normal speed. There are many ways to deal with issues rather then letting them bother one.

**In terms of speed there also is the perceptual dimension. One can do a move in such a way that a person feels it is fast and then one can do the same move soa person feels that it is a lot slower while still keeping to the basic suggested by the music **

Well...there is the issue of crazy out-of-control dancers...but then crowding a person can deal with that. ;-) Or moving to another spot.

I am capable of switching from slot like to circular dancing within a song. I don't prescribe to one particular style even within a song and you may see LA/NY/cuban all in one dance. Kind of makes it moot, the necessity of keeping a slot and it makes it more fun for me. As for floorcraft I don't see any issues of with any one particular style or of a follower not maintaining the slot if we are doing slot-like dancing or even of the common complaint of those circular cuban-style dancers. It is more an issue of how well a person can dance.

[Josh]

I am capable of switching from slot like to circular dancing within a song. I don't prescribe to one particular style even within a song and you may see LA/NY/cuban all in one dance. Kind of makes it moot, the necessity of keeping a slot and it makes it more fun for me.

I agree Sag--it's good to be versatile. However, dancing moves which are intended to be done in a slot with the follower or leader not maintaining it tends to cause the flow of the dance to be lost, IMO.

[Sabor]

as an immediate solution..providing u are leading well.. if she can't keep a slot then simply just adjust to her movement so as to make the best out of it..

the better or more experienced dancer should always adjust to the other.. period.. easier eaid than done i know.. but the effort is good karma

[quixotedlm]

as an immediate solution..providing u are leading well.. if she can't keep a slot then simply just adjust to her movement so as to make the best out of it..

the better or more experienced dancer should always adjust to the other.. period.. easier eaid than done i know.. but the effort is good karma

that seems to be the bottomline adivce from all :) thanks all!

[Big10]

How do you convey the idea to the follower, during a dance, that you would very much like her (or him) to keep the slot?
The funniest way I've seen it done is by Mario B, at about 0:52 here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxZKitax9R4 :lol:

Personally, I think it's up to the leader to be strong/clear enough with the lead so that the follower ends up in the right position. If the two of you have broken apart into open shines, then maybe you just have to do what Mario B did. ;) If the follower still resists (or isn't proficient enough), then do your best to keep the dance in a small area and decide for yourself whether that issue is annoying enough so that you don't dance with her again. (Personally, I like both slot dancing as well as dancing that isn't bound to a slot.)

Well, both On1 and On2 (and again either kind of On2) are by definition slot dances.

Huh? "By definition"? :confused: I think of On1 and On2 as simply references to the beat for breaking, but either way I've seen plenty of dancers who don't feel bound by the slot. My favorite Salsa instructor taught a Cuban-influenced form of On1 that mostly involved a slot, but didn't require a slot.