how should a woman hold her spinning arm?

[yippee1999]

So I had a private the other day with a teacher I really admire. It only occurred to me then that even in beginner salsa lessons, we were only taught how to do shines and partnerwork, but the teacher never talked about form per se, or specifics on how to hold your upper body, etc.

So anyway, during this private, I was told that when I do spins, I am overextending my arm. I think what I've been doing is trying to accommodate the man and give him "all" of my arm (which includes the shoulderblade) so that we have plenty of arm length for me to do my spin. The teacher told me that my spinning arm should always be held out in front of me at a 90 degree angle, and that my elbow should always be in front of me or in my eye's view. During spins, my arm should never be extending BACK or really UP. I should hold my arm almost at a solid 90 degree angle the entire time, maintaining my core, and that it is up to the MAN to accommodate me during the spin. In other words, since I would not be extending my arm up and back the way I used to, that the man will have to accommodate me. And in the case of a man that's equal in height to me or perhaps shorter, that instead of trying to sneak my head under his arm (which would throw off my balance), that a better way to ensure I can finish the turn under his arm is to bend even more in the knees, thereby decreasing my own height.

I was told that by keeping my spinning arm in this constant position, it will keep me my core more aligned with itself, thereby helping me to come right back to where I began spinning, and not run the risk of spinning and ending up a bit off center or to the side of where I began. In addition, I was told that I need to bend more at the knee, as this will help me be grounded.

And when I tried practicing spins again with the teacher, yes, bending my knees did help me to be more grounded, and I found by keeping my spinning arm at a 90 degree angle, that my spins ended up with me landing more directly in front of the teacher, as opposed to a bit off to the side.

But my question for you all is.... is this a generally understood principle? I really want to try this out now at socials, but my fear is that my partners may not be used to this fundamental, and they'll think I'm not giving them enough "arm" or something, during spins.... that they might wonder what I'm doing... why I seem to be holding my arm in, and not extending it.

[noobster]

But my question for you all is.... is this a generally understood principle?I think it is. I read an article by Edie the Salsa Freak that says the same thing.
http://www.salsastories.com/stories-s/spins.htm

I really want to try this out now at socials, but my fear is that my partners may not be used to this fundamental, and they'll think I'm not giving them enough "arm" or something, during spins.... that they might wonder what I'm doing... why I seem to be holding my arm in, and not extending it.If your spins are good, I doubt they will be making faces at your arm position. ;) Anyway, are you going to purposely not use the technique you paid so much money to learn for fear that your partner will not 'like' it?

You must have a very solid core in the first place to be able to spin with your arm out like that. I imagine that position would throw me out of the spin immediately.

[Josh]

... it is up to the MAN to accommodate me during the spin. In other words, since I would not be extending my arm up and back the way I used to, that the man will have to accommodate me.

Yes. But unless he's dancing 10 feet from you, he shouldn't have to really stretch his arm much to turn you. The two of you should be nice and close so that his arm is at a comfortable reach, unless he's way shorter than you, as you said.

But my question for you all is.... is this a generally understood principle?

Yes, it is a generally understood principle--go for it. In reality, the hand will come a little closer to the head than 90 degrees will allow, so think of it as maybe 70-90 degrees.

I really want to try this out now at socials, but my fear is that my partners may not be used to this fundamental, and they'll think I'm not giving them enough "arm" or something, during spins....

The only thing they will be thinking is, "why didn't she start doing this sooner?" :wink: Seriously though, you should not offer any vertical resistance with your arm... the reason being that he does not need to move your body up or down.. he only needs to rotate it, so offer some pressure against hand in the direction opposite your rotation. Remember though, you are still responsible for turning yourself.

[Catarina]

spinning arm--is that the arm that's not being held onto by the lead?
if so, i saw a girl in spins on saturday who looked awesome spinning! she had her left arm horizontal to the floor, but not too far from her body, and it made the spin look so much cleaner. the guy she was dancing with was not put off by it at all...i'm going to work on that too!

[squirrel]

The spinning arm is the arm the guy holds, in this case.

Of course, the free arm can be held horizontal compared to the floor - it helps a lot with balance. Still, this is not necessary - once one understands how to keep the body while spinning, there are many other things the arm/head/leg can do.

[sweavo]

But my question for you all is.... is this a generally understood principle?

Yes yes yes! Do this and your leaders will LOVE you!

It might puzzle leaders who have got used to you dancing the old way, and who only dance at a low level, locally, but you'll find your intermediate dancers will feel that structure and automatically treat you as a higher-level dancer. You'll get more spins, and probably asked to dance more.

[Dancelf]

....The teacher told me that my spinning arm should always be held out in front of me at a 90 degree angle, and that my elbow should always be in front of me or in my eye's view.

But my question for you all is.... is this a generally understood principle?

OK, insert the westie disclaimer here in BIG LETTERS...

I've been working on leading one footed spins ("pencil spins", "attitude spins", "just-how-many-of-those-can-you-do-in-one-go spins") for the last two years. I've found that telling followers to hold their arms "in front of them at 90 degree angles" gets the wrong muscles engaged.

Short summary: the leader signals the end of the spin by lowering his hand. If the follower's bicep is tight, the arm acts as a lever, pulling the follower's head weight away from her support. The result is that she falls out of the spin. The tightening of the arm also gets communicated to the hand, which loses the suppleness critical to allowing the leader to make the micro adjustments necessary to keep the spin going indefinitely.

Instead, I tried suggesting that the follower hold her body in such a way that the arm was at 90 degrees. This seems to produce the correct position without engaging the bicep or tricep - putting the elbow in the right place. Now the hand can go up and down without pulling the follower off balance. With the bis and tris relaxed, the hand loses the need to grip, and the connection becomes a lot cleaner. On the whole, it takes a lot of the effort out of the spin.

In screwing around with this here in the office (the others went off for a meeting, so I didn't look too foolish), it occurs to me that the usual instructions are vague as to which 90 angle people are talking about. Followers maintaining a 90 degree hand-elbow-shoulder are the ones that normally get pulled over. I normally end up thinking about elbow shoulder hip - but from the physics it may be elbow-shoulder-shoulder that is the critical one.

Different dance, and even in WCS I don't promise that it works for everyone, so consider this with a follower of salt.

[alemana]

yippee - yes, that's the correct technique. force yourself by any means necessary to internalize it now - if you don't, it will SUCK SUCK SUCK trying to change it later.

what's really sad is how little this is taught, generally.

[yippee1999]

Thanks everybody! I'm really excited to see how this translates into my social dancing, and to see if I start to feel a difference in how the leads respond to me and my turns!

Sidenote: anybody in NYC heard of The Boulevard for salsa? I guess it's a new place on Bowery, and I heard that the old "Lansky Lounge"(?) crowd now goes there. I've never heard of Lansky Lounge, so I don't know what crowd they are referring to. Anybody know what The Boulevard might be like?

[GayleR]

Yes yes yes! Do this and your leaders will LOVE you!


I think this is a generally understood principle for those who have been taught. Keeping my arm at 90 degrees, core tight, allows the guy to spin me as many times as he wants while we maintain the tension. I work very hard at keeping my arm in place and not allowing it to "drift" up. When it drifts up, I lose my balance and the lead ends up having to take me out of the spin, somtimes before he intended to. One of my favorite instructors that I take weekly privates with, is so in tune with me that if he feels me drift even a little, he lightly indicates by placing his fingers on the inside of my elbow and I know to bring my arm back down to the proper position.

[MacMoto]

In screwing around with this here in the office (the others went off for a meeting, so I didn't look too foolish), it occurs to me that the usual instructions are vague as to which 90 angle people are talking about. Followers maintaining a 90 degree hand-elbow-shoulder are the ones that normally get pulled over. I normally end up thinking about elbow shoulder hip - but from the physics it may be elbow-shoulder-shoulder that is the critical one.

Interesting -- I was taught to think "90-90-90" -- meaning, you should hold your arm in the way that maintains a 90 degree hand-elbow-shoulder, elbow-shoulder-hip and elbow-shoulder-shoulder (i.e., upper arm straight out to the front and horizontal to floor, then forearm straight up from there).