Are ballroom comp promoters too powerful?

[pygmalion]

The Ballroom on US TV thread got me thinking. From what was said here, it seems that the reason we don't get to see ballroom on TV is because a comp promoter didn't like the deal with PBS, so pulled out. At least, that's what I deduce from the conversation here. So 300 million Americans are, for the most part, without ballroom on TV because one promoter (or promotion group) had the power to say no. That's a heck of a lot of power for a small group of people.

Hmm. And promoters have lots of other power and influence, as well. Anyone care to discuss? Pros? Cons? Limitations to that power?

[KevinL]

So 300 million Americans are, for the most part, without ballroom on TV because one promoter (or promotion group) had the power to say no.

It's all about economics. The promotor decided it wasn't worth their effort to continue to spend the time, money and effort to produce shows for TV and pulled out. If there was a strong enough market (ie, desire to see ballroom dancing) than the capitalist powers that be who run the TV industry would start showing ballroom dancing. There isn't enough interest to justify the time and money involved with producing such a show, so it's not produced.

Hmm. And promoters have lots of other power and influence, as well. Anyone care to discuss? Pros? Cons? Limitations to that power?

The promoters of any event have complete control of the event, no matter if it's a church social, or a national level competition. The limitations to that control and power are based on the ability to earn enough money from what they promote. If what they offer and promote earns money they can do it again the next time, if they promote something that no-one supports they probably can't do it again.

Is it right? That doesn't matter because the people with the money decide what will happen.

If all of the 300 million people who are deprived of ballroom dancing were to send me a check for $1 I would ensure that there was some really great ballroom dancing on TV. I would probably even do a 30 sec commercial during the superbowl with part of the money, just to ensure that the most people possible were exposed to the fact that they show would be on TV. Will that happen? No, probably not, people aren't willing to support such a thing. Wouldn't it be cool, though?

Kevin

[SDsalsaguy]

Hold on a sec. This is not entirely the case! Part of what happened is that PBS, like every other TV station, dumped a ton of $ into covering the tragedies of 9/11 and so didn't have the financial pool it typically had had to then cover the Ohio Star Ball in November (the location taped for the Championship Ballroom Dancing show).

PBS had come back and basically offered that if the event provided them with a canned show (i.e. fully edited and air ready) they might use it. Given the production costs involved, and on speculation at that, I don't think it is a fair representation to simply dismiss this as "the promoter didn't like the deal with PBS."

There are many, many grounds on which the degree of control and influence by event promoters and organizers could be taken to task, but I really don't feel this is one of them. I know of few, if any, organizers who would not welcome TV coverage of their respective events. The fault, rather, seems to reside with media interests. Why are poker, chess, car shows, and robot wars shown on sports networks whereas ballroom is not? I don't mean this as a knock on any of those games/activities, but as sports? Give me a break.

[Vince A]

Hmm. And promoters have lots of other power and influence, as well. Anyone care to discuss? Pros? Cons? Limitations to that power?
We are good friends with two promoters and know two others pretty well.
Yes, they do have power . . . it is their job! Do they have influence? Of course!

However, in the UCWDC - www.ucwdc.com - they all are some of the best people I know. That treat every dancer, competitor or not, as individuals and not a numbers or just someone who purchased an event ticket!

They have broken their necks to insure that everyone is taken care of and that all in attendance have a great time . . . and I have had nothing less at any UCWDC event in which we have attended!

All they ask in return . . . is that we have a good time, and if we did enjoy ourselves, to think about coming back next year.

[pygmalion]

I've also met and exchanged emails with some very nice competition promoters, Vince. They seemed very nice business people to me.

[SDsalsaguy]

I've also met and exchanged emails with some very nice competition promoters, Vince. They seemed very nice business people to me.
This SOOOOOOOO depends on the person! :lol:

I've been in touch with tons of organizers over the past several years, especially as far as my research is concerned. I'm happy to say (since I love dancers and dancing so much) that the majority have seemed to be, as Jenn says, "very nice business people." There are some out there, however, who are clearly in it solely for financial grounds, are very shortsighted business people, and really do not care about dancers or dancing. Sad, but true. As I said though, thankfully most are of a different mold.

[pygmalion]

Yes, SD. I thought you'd have some pertinent experience here. Actually, I raised the question because of that old saying, "power corrupts." If the promoters do, as KevinL says, have absolute power over their respective comps, then combine that with an unsavory personality and ... bad stuff could happen. :?

[KevinL]

If the promoters do, as KevinL says, have absolute power over their respective comps, then combine that with an unsavory personality and ... bad stuff could happen. :?

I think that promotors have a lot of power because they schedule everything, but I would believe SDSalsaguys experience over my own, since he has actually been to lots (hundreds?) of competitions, and I have only been to two.

Kevin

[SDsalsaguy]

If the promoters do, as KevinL says, have absolute power over their respective comps, then combine that with an unsavory personality and ... bad stuff could happen. :?

I think that promotors have a lot of power because they schedule everything, but I would believe SDSalsaguys experience over my own, since he has actually been to lots (hundreds?) of competitions, and I have only been to two.

Kevin

Well Kevin, bad stuff *does* happen. I'm just thankful that this seems to be less rather than more typical. As far as "(hundreds?)" of comps, no, not even close! :lol: While I've been to several events not listed, here are the venues which have explicitly facilitated my research.

STUDIOS
Arthur Murray – Boston, MA
Arthur Murray – Paoli, PA
Champion Ballroom – San Diego, CA
Dance Options at Cheam – Cheam, ENGLAND
Fred Astaire Dance Studio – Boston, MA
Metronome Ballroom – San Francisco, CA
New England Dancesport Academy – Brookline, MA
The Semley Studio – Norburry, ENGLAND
Starlight Dance Academy – Streatham, ENGLAND
Viva Dance – Thornhill, CANADA

CONGRESSES
World Ballroom Dancing Congress: May 24-25, 2003, Blackpool, ENGLAND

SPORT CLUBS
ÅS – Århus, DENMARK

SHOWS
Latin Fusion: June 2002, Center Stage - New York, NY

COMPETITIONS
Colorado Star Ball: June 22-24, 2001, Denver, CO
USABDA National Championships: August 9-11, 2001, Salt Lake City, UT
United States DanceSport Championships: September 4-9, 2001, Miami, FL
Yankee Classic Dancesport Championships: October 4-7, 2001, Boston, MA
Ohio Star Ball: November 13-18, 2001, Columbus, OH
Holiday Classic: December 14-16, 2001, Las Vegas, NV
Intercontinental Dancesport Festival: January 5-12, 2002, Daytona, FL
California Open: February 15-17, 2002, Costa Mesa, CA
San Francisco Open: March 29-31, 2002, San Francisco, CA
Southwest Regional Championship: April 12-14, 2002, San Diego, CA
Can-Am Dancesport Gala: April 18-21, 2002, Toronto, CANADA
Emerald Ball: May 1-5, 2002, Los Angeles, CA
“Blackpool” British Open Championships: May 24-31, 2002, Blackpool, ENGLAND
Desert Classic: July 4-7, 2002, Palm Desert, CA
USABDA National Championships: August 2-4, 2002; Saint Paul, MN
Empire State Dancesport Championship: August 8-11, New York, NY
German Open Championship: August 26-31, 2002, Mannheim, GERMANY
United States DanceSport Championships: September 3-7, 2002, Miami, FL
Golden State Challenge: October 4-5, 2002, Newport Beach, CA
Pacific Dancesport: November 1-3, 2002, Los Angeles CA
Ohio Star Ball: November 19-24, 2002, Columbus, OH
California Open: February 13-16, 2003, Irvine, CA
Southern California Amateur DanceSport Championships: March 22, 2003, Glendale, CA
Southwest Regional Dance Championships: April 11-13, 2003, San Diego, CA
Can-Am Dancesport Gala: April 24-27, 2003, Toronto, CANADA
Emerald Ball: April 30-May 4, 2003, Los Angeles, CA
Crystal Palace DanceSport Cup: May 19, 2003, Upper Norwood, ENGLAND
"Blackpool” British Open Championships: May 23-30, 2003, Blackpool, ENGLAND
World Ballroom Dancing Congress: May 24-25, 2003, Blackpool, ENGLAND
Star Championships: May 25, 2003, Blackpool, ENGLAND
Feinda - Italian Open: June 22-28, 2003, Cervia, ITALY
Desert Classic: July 3-6, 2003, Palm Desert, CA
Unique Dance-O-Rama: July 18-20, 2003, Costa Mesa, CA
Embassy Ball: August 28-31, 2003, Irvine, CA
United States DanceSport Championships: September 2-6, 2003, Hollywood Beach, FL
Golden State Challenge: October 3-4, 2003, Newport Beach, CA
Holiday Dance Classic: December 11-14, 2003, Las Vegas, NV


One interesting thing I've noticed is that those organizers who are more involved with dance – aside from their event – tend to be more dancer friendly. It is those who have limited involvements with the larger dance dance community aside from their events who seem the least interested in anything but the bottom line of their own events as well.

[DancingMommy]

The other side of the equation is that the producer of the show (WGBH Boston) is a public TV station. They were the ones raising the funds for the production of the show (not the comp organizer). In this case, PBS was not getting enough support due to 9/11 (funds were given to Red Cross & other orgs).

Had there been enough financial support from the public, then it would have been more likely that Championship Ballroom Dancing would have stayed on the air. Unfortunately, with inept commentators it makes it hard to get viewers involved in the show. Also, the produciton itself was a trifle on the :yawn: boring side.

A&E does a MUCH better job of producing dancesport for TV since they use a more "sporting event" style coverage. They give background on the competitors & the events instead of just showing dance after dance. The A&E-style goes a lot further with folks who would otherwise have no clue what they are watching. ESPN has occasionally done the same style of show as well. The old-school PBS style just won't cut it in this day and age.

I could produce a better show (if I had all the $$$ that they got). And that's the truth.

[pygmalion]

I believe you, DancingMommy. The pity is that we, the viewing audience, rarely get to influence the stuff produced for our consumption. Hmm. I wonder if there's a way to get feedback like yours to A&E or ESPN or whoever. Just wondering.

And you're right. It's a new day and time for PBS. Their funds have been getting squeezed tighter and tighter for years, and they're more dependent on viewer funding. I guess the 9/11 was just bad timing, in terms of ballroom dance and a lot of other things.

I still think that a decision to basically pull ballroom dance from television in the US was the use of a heck of a lot of power by just a relatively few individuals, though