Faking It...

[Taita]

Apparantly, there was an interesting show on TV last night about ballroom dancing shown on BBC America. Did anyone watch it?

http://bbcamerica.com/genre/home_living/faking_it/faking_it_dancer.jsp

[pygmalion]

Oh Taita. I'm sorry you missed it. Faking It is another of those "reality shows." In this episode, Joe, a tomboy kickboxer from northern England, is transformed into a competitive ballroom dancer in four weeks, With the help of some REALLY GOOD dance coaches, an acting coach and others, she enters a ballroom two dance competition (jive and rumba) and competes against people who've been dancing for years. It was really entertaining.

[Taita]

Unfortunately, I couldn't get BBCAmerica where I live so I couldn't even record it. What was entertaining? Did she pull it off?

[pygmalion]

If the show is to be believed (and some have suggested to me it was rigged :lol: :wink: ) she made the final round.

What I can say is that, in the earliest footage, she couldn't dance a lick. Unfortunately, we didn't get to see footwork of the actual dance competition at the end, but her posture, poise, and arm styling were quite nice.

I don't want to hog the conversation here, but I have to say that the scene about midway through the episode, when she gets bashed by all her coaches and recommits to the project, was very profound. She was working hard, but essentially going through the motions up to that point. And when she was about three weeks into the project, she realized the enormity of what she was doing, recommitted, and pulled it through. Words of wisdom for me. Going through the motions is easy to do, but committing to the hard work is what's required to succeed.

Did anybody else watch?

[tasche]

Well I stayed up till 3am to watch the replay after reading your post and realising I'd missed it ( Our vcr doesn't play nicely with the cable box)

I throughly enjoyed it. She did have some resistance to the idea at first but nothing near as bad as some of the contestants on the MTV show "MADE"

One thing I remember tha twas different dancing here than elsewhere in the world is that coaches ehre dont yell at you nearly enough. They're too nice. :shock:

[Sagitta]

I could go on and on and on, but will just say a few words.

I didn't catch the ballroom Faking It... Would someone mind giving me the play by play on what happened? I'd be much obliged.


You don't ask for much, do you? [sarcastic playful grin- try and get a smiley for that!!] It started out with Joe picking up quite a bit fast, and then she hit a plateau in which she had this fear of being "girly" and looking stupid. Joe was embarrassed by the intimacy of the closed position and she did not take off her baseball cap for quite a well. (I personally thought that was what made her look stupid. Try doing latin dancing with a cap as a follow?!!! Then she tried on a fairly revealing dress and high heals, standing with her legs apart, and her cap on. I don't know how anyone could feel good like that!! ) That stopped her progress until about ten days before the show, when she decided to stop worrying about what others thought and give it her best shot. I thought the change was a dramatic one. Then for the competition Joe got through to the third round as one of the six finalists. She did rhumba in the first round, and then getting through to the second round pepped her up a bit and she did better in the jive. (The jive is less sexy, so that must have helped too.)

[pygmalion]

Yeah, tasche. She really was upset two times during the episode -- when Sammy (?) Stoppard told her to get her a$$ in gear, and later, when she did the dress rehearsal and all the coaches bashed her.

Every once in a while, I need somebody to tell me to get my a$$ in gear, too! :lol:

[SDsalsaguy]

Sammy (?) Stoppard
Sammy Stopford

[pygmalion]

I believe it's coming on again Thursday at 9:00, in case you missed it and have access to the network.

[Taita]

If the show is to be believed (and some have suggested to me it was rigged :lol: :wink: ) she made the final round.


Interesting, since I haven't seen the show, I really can't tell if it was rigged or not (not that I could anyways! :wink: ). On one hand, I know it's not easy to train for and make the finals of any respectable competition in only a month of training. But when I ask myself how it may have happened the following random thoughts come to mind....

She had a goal. I am always surprised at what people can accomplish if they have a goal. If someone makes something a MUST in their life, success will invariably come if they take action. I can remember when I was first learning to dance and it was a MUST for me. I couldn't believe what I accomplished in a month. Did she win a prize or anything?

She had some great coaches. This may not have been a typical month for most amateur dancers. I'm fortunate to work with some great coaches on a weekly basis along with regular practice. Did she work with them everyday? The website says she was a martial arts black belt. This tells me that she has some discipline and is accustomed to working hard consistently over time. This combined with the coaching and the motivation might have guaranteed success.

It can be argued that ladies can learn ballroom dance at least 3 times faster than guys since they don't have to learn some things guys have to learn.

As you said, her posture, poise and styling were quite nice. This alone could at least get her by the first round.

It was only 2 dances. I have a similar martial arts/athletic background and I can remember how quickly I learned 6 dances about a month before my first competition and made a respectable showing.

I suppose it may be possible for a woman with such a background to learn quite a bit very quickly but I really wish I had seen the show. What was it that really hit home with you? Anybody else want to share their thoughts?

[pygmalion]

Oh. I'm really trying not to take over the conversation, here. But I did watch and take notes! :lol: :lol:

I agree with you, Taita. This young woman came to the table as an athlete already having complete control of her body and with a disciplined mind. She also had excellent dance coaches, a custom designed gown from Chrisanne, makeup artists, an acting coach. Oh yeah, and a hand-picked, experienced and great-looking dance partner.

I seriously doubt that just your ordinary amateur dancer could do quite so well. Joe had every possible advantage.

[Taita]

Oh. I'm really trying not to take over the conversation, here. But I did watch and take notes! :lol: :lol:


LOL! I'm not trying to hog the conversation either. I think of it as having a conversation for others. People posting are probably saying and asking things others who are reading along are thinking and asking themselves. Besides, someone with as many postings as yourself surely is not afraid of posting some more. :wink: What did you write down? Did you tape it?

Since I have never even watched the show, much less this episode, was this some kind of gameshow? or just pure entertainment. Are there any fans of the show reading?

[pygmalion]

:lol: :lol: Oh Taita! You're such a bad influence! :lol: :wink: No. Posting a lot doesn't bother me. But after this one, I'm really going to try to stay out and let others comment. Yes, of course I taped it, so I can go back and watch again, to see if I'm missing anything. :wink:

To me, the show touched on a lot of universal dance or even achievement-related themes, and I wrote some of them down. It talked about glamour, femininity/masculinity, competitive spirit, commitment, self-discovery, physical versus mental focus, overcoming fear, discipline, and making choices.

From what I can tell, this is just another reality show which places someone from one walk of life into a totally foreign role. This week just happened to be about ballroom dance. Next week is about a woman who knows nothing about sailing, but is made captain of a small craft and crew. It actually looks quite interesting, and I may check out other episodes. But, of course, the ballroom episode will always be near and dear to my heart. :lol:

[Porfirio Landeros]

Hopefully I don't put my neck out too far here on this one, but I kind of have an adjoining opinion to comments about women that have good body control, therefore, being able to fake it.

See, I believe that it's easier for a woman to fake a Latin dance than anyone else can in any other scenario. Just like how Vanessa Williams had to fake it in Dance With Me, or Jennifer Gray had to fake a Mambo. I have yet to see a man or woman, really pull of a standard ballroom dance even close to the level of what we would expect in competition. Top-line, moving with a partner in your arms, and the overall look of a closed frame I think is the hardest thing to fake.

Latin is very athletic, and people in other athletic styles, like Jazz-dance, ballet, or in this case Kickboxing, can adapt their flexibility and muscles easier than having to dance face-to-face with a partner. The choreography can be adapted to include more side-by-side work, so that you don't see a bad dance-frame.

I didn't see the show yet, but I would really love to see someone fake a Waltz or a Foxtrot at a level higher than bronze-basic.

PLEASE don't read this like I'm saying Latin is easy. I just think it's more closely related to the activities that these 'fakers' already have skills in.

Also, I heard a rumor on another forum that this competition event was staged against collegiate-level dancers, so that's another factor to take into account if this is true.

[tasche]

I dont think it reallys matters if the competition was staged or not. I think she did awefully well to have acheived so much in 4 weeks

[Sagitta]

It can be argued that ladies can learn ballroom dance at least 3 times faster than guys since they don't have to learn some things guys have to learn.

Thanks!! :)

To me, the show touched on a lot of universal dance or even achievement-related themes, and I wrote some of them down. It talked about glamour, femininity/masculinity, competitive spirit, commitment, self-discovery, physical versus mental focus, overcoming fear, discipline, and making choices.

I completely agree, and like you I taped it. (I also taped the national dance competition "Dance Fever" that they had a while back) BUT I don't have the discipline to take notes. Don't take notes that often. :)

From what I can tell, this is just another reality show which places someone from one walk of life into a totally foreign role. It actually looks quite interesting, and I may check out other episodes. But, of course, the ballroom episode will always be near and dear to my heart. :lol:

It is a pretty good reality show. Of course you can always pick up little tid-bits here and there - that's why I like "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy". You learn something and get a luagh at the same time. I'm really getting off the topic here...Anyway, it's quite telling how these British shows become so popular here.

Back on topic:
Latin is very athletic Is rhumba athletic? That was one latin dance I never would consider as that. Jive is which is why "Joe" must have liked it so much. I wasn't suprised she took to that dance fairly easily and she did so well in the second round. If she did jive first round and rhumba the second I have my doubts as to whether she would have made it into the final third round.

[pygmalion]

[Is rhumba athletic? That was one latin dance I never would consider as that.

Rumba is SO athletic, if you're doing competition level training. Social dancing can be pretty non-athletic, period. I was shocked when I first switched from social to competitive training. I was sore for weeks. Muscles I had never used were now being developed and used. Edit: I should add, social dance doesn't have to be non-athletic, but you can get away with it being non-athletic. Competitive dance has to be athletic, and it's more obvious in some dances than others.

For rumba, the muscles I most notice (although many others are used, I'm sure) are the core muscles -- obliques, abs, and hip flexors for Latin motion. Also the muscles of the ankles and feet for foot action. Calves and quads for leg action. Delts and lats for connections and partnering. In short, your whole body is used for rumba, and in a very athletic way.

[Taita]

More thoughts....

You're not sticking your neck out too far Pofirio, I happen to agree. However, since Jo wouldn't have to lead, I think she probably could have pulled off 2 standard dances just as well given the same resources. However, what would have significantly increased the challenge is if they had to train an athletic, non-dancer, guy.

Is Rumba athletic? well, it is certainly slow, and sensual. Beginner or social Rumba is certainly not a great athletic challenge. But if you compete, rumba will gradually become one of the most athletic dances. Yes, the music is slower, but judges will start to expect couples to do more with each measure. Watch a good professional couple do their competition routine and you would see the athleticism at work. I was in an open level class the other day and the teacher was taking us through a rumba routine where I had to lead my partner through a triple spin on a 'slow' count :shock: . Needless to say, the amount of body control and balance necessary for open choreography is something I would certainly consider a considerable athletic challenge.

[DancingMommy]

I didn't see the show yet, but I would really love to see someone fake a Waltz or a Foxtrot at a level higher than bronze-basic.

Al Pacino in "Scent of a Woman" & Arnold in "True Lies" come to mind. The former being a much better dancer than the latter.

[pygmalion]

True, DancingMommy. Those guys did fake it. But faking it for a movie viewing audience that's clueless about dance is a whole lot different than faking it for a few world-class judges. I cringe at the thought. :shock: :lol: Terrifying.

[SDsalsaguy]

I didn't see the show yet, but I would really love to see someone fake a Waltz or a Foxtrot at a level higher than bronze-basic.

Al Pacino in "Scent of a Woman" & Arnold in "True Lies" come to mind. The former being a much better dancer than the latter.
Also note that neither of these guys faked the full, competitive, body-contact version Porfiro was alluding to either.

[DancingMommy]

True, DancingMommy. Those guys did fake it. But faking it for a movie viewing audience that's clueless about dance is a whole lot different than faking it for a few world-class judges. I cringe at the thought. :shock: :lol: Terrifying.

Yeah no kidding....

Makes you wonder how much was "staged" and "rigged".....

[NeoDevin]

Is this show still running? If it is, I'll have to watch out for it.

[pygmalion]

It came on BBC America twice last week. I'm not sure when or if they have more reruns, but I'll keep an eye open for it. :D

Jenn

[pygmalion]

Well, well, well. The things you find when you google. Check out this interview with our kick boxing/ballroom dancing friend. Interesting.

http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsites/F/fakingit/shows/boxer_to_ballroom.html

[Sagitta]

Wow!! "Ballroom dancing is sexy in a campy sort of way". Could anyone translate what this is supposed to mean?

[Laura]

Sure. She thinks it's sexy, but to her it seems to be an artificial kind of sexiness that borders on humor or even a parody of sexuality. Kind of "sexiness as a bit of a joke."

I actually agree with her assessment. That doesn't diminish my love of competitive ballroom dancing though. And, having seen dancesport WITHOUT the high glamour (it was a comp totally outside the college/USABDA/NDCA systems), I must say I PREFER the glamorized version, with the over-the-top makeup and fake tans and dresses covered with rhinestones, etc etc.

As I always say "why should drag queens have all the fun?"

I actually have this theory that fun is a substance, like oxygen, that is produced by drag queens. Sort of like how green plants produce oxygen. The drag queens generate fun for the rest of the world to share. (Yes, this is joke, but it's one of those weird-conversations-after-a-few-martinis-that-sort-of-makes-sense jokes.)

[DWise1]

... , I must say I PREFER the glamorized version, with the over-the-top makeup and fake tans and dresses covered with rhinestones, etc etc.

As I always say "why should drag queens have all the fun?"

Being a thinker, when I was starting in Salsa a few years ago I Google'd about for information on Salsa. At that time on Edie the Salsa Freak's site, http://www.dancefreak.com/ , she recommended that women take notes and learn from the drag queens, since those guys work hard at looking and acting feminine and have made a science of it.

[pygmalion]

I was a little disappointed at her assessment that she doesn't like dancing. It's competitive dancing she doesn't like, with its artificiality. Perhaps social ballroom would be just the ticket, but her experience turned her off both.

The mentor's comments that he feels ballroom dance will have to change some attitudes in order to appeal to young people were interesting, as well.

Oh yeah, and the campy/sexy versus sexy for real? Do ballroom people really see ballroom dancing as sexy for real? Hmm. I don't. It's huge. It's larger than life, and it's for show. Real sexy, to me, can be small, cerebral, and subtle. Being "sexy" on a dance floor in a way that projects to your audience dozens of feet away, on a still photo, or on video? Well, that's not small OR subtle. It can't afford to be, IMHO.

[Laura]

Ballroom people know it's all performance, but outsiders coming in get hit with it for the first time and some of them go WHAAATTT? If we want to get more people interested, both as dancers and spectators, especially in the US where the mainstream has tended toward the conservative side in the past 20 years, perhaps a little navel-gazing is in order.

[pygmalion]

Do you mean tone down the fake glam a bit? That might not be such a bad idea. :idea: 8)

[Laura]

I'm not sure...like I've said, adults are adults and are free to do what they want no matter how tacky or tarty others might think it is.

However, sometimes I do wonder what is going through people's heads when they choose their costumes, particularly in the Latin/Rhythm sections. I've seen some stupendously gorgeous outfits that were sexy and classy, and some that were just so god-awful that I'm not even sure the ladies of the evening would wear. Do people actually go to their costume designer and say "make me look as much like a hooker as possible?" Perhaps the Latin costuming is a way for some people to play out -- either consciously or subconsciously -- some kind of secret fantasy?

[pygmalion]

Either that, or a mistaken impression of how they really look. A lot of people don't work with a designer, unfortunately. They just pick something that looks good to them and buy it. But looking good "to" them doesn't mean it will look good "on" them. LOL!

[Laura]

Which neatly brings this thread around to "Fakin' It" again...or at least to BBC TV! Watching "What Not To Wear" is a HUGE education. I'd love to see them take on a Latin dancer, both off and on the floor.

[tasche]

I love their books. Nver had a chance to see the show but through thei books I foudn out that I should wear scoop neck topas and it make my boobs look smaller when most other style bibles would tell me to wear a turtleneck to cover myself. So most things they say come from real experience

(BTW the scoop neck thing to de-emphasise the boobs works and doesn't look as slutty as I would have imagined ( pity ) )

[cocodrilo]

Well, well, well. The things you find when you google. Check out this interview with our kick boxing/ballroom dancing friend. Interesting.

http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsites/F/fakingit/shows/boxer_to_ballroom.html

Checked that out, Pygmalion! Most intersting, especially when the dance coach was asked if he could ever be a kickboxer(No, because of migraines! :lol: ). I have never done ANY ballroom dancing, but have been to ballroom PARTIES where the "big dogs" dance. I think I would one day like to give it a try. As for what "outsiders" think about ballroom- my macho latino buddies seem to get nauseous at the thought of it. They're always scowling & making fun of the dancers that are still practicing at the studio when we get there early to set up for our parties. I am thankful they're speaking Spanish cause it would be really embarrassing if the dancers heard their pathetic wisecracks. I guess this means they're NOT metrosexual, then???? :?

[Canadian Guy]

I remember seeing this show a few months back.

From what I remember in the interviews with the judges of the dance comp. when they were told one of of the ladies in the comp had only been dancing for 4 weeks most of them picked Jo even though they had progressed the couple pretty far into the comp.

The ones who picked Jo commented that they could see the differences in dance level between Jo and her lead. I think that was what tipped them off - the differenes in levels was just too much. I guess they progressed the couple based on the skills of the lead :?:

I would be interested if they picked a non-dancer guy and tried to train him up for a dance comp in 4 weeks.

BTW, I love that show. I saw a couple of them. One where a go-go dancer had to become an equestrian or the guy who had to become the head chef, can't remember what he was before. Haven't seen anymore in a while - have to look for it again.

[UniversityDancesport]

You may find it interesting to know that Jo's partner was Nicky from the UK uni circuit, he used to dance with Oxford. I think the logic was they needed someone of a good standard, but make sure there was not too visible a difference between them.
I am not sure if he enjoyed the show or not, he did not dance much afterwards, for reasons I dont know, but from what I heard they worked really hard, and it was definately not rigged!
Alot of the people they were competing against were students also I think.

Caroline
(just reciting uni gossip, nothing official!)
www.universitydancesport.com
www.dancecentrale.co.uk

[Adwiz]

sometimes I do wonder what is going through people's heads when they choose their costumes, particularly in the Latin/Rhythm sections. I've seen some stupendously gorgeous outfits that were sexy and classy, and some that were just so god-awful that I'm not even sure the ladies of the evening would wear.

I agree. This has been one of my pet peeves at some competitions. Why any woman would think that wearing a costume that amounts to little more than a thong would actually help her win a dance competition is beyond me. In my view, it just brings the entire sport down a notch by adding an element of crudeness that doesn't need to be there.

I'm glad that comp organizers have started noticing this trend and more of them are getting tough with the rules, insisting on costume checks before the event and disqualifying or fining for violations (I'm more in favor of a fine because it accomplishes the same thing without denying a dancer the opportunity to compete).

On a related note are senior-level couples where the dancer has no concept of her own body condition. There are few things in dance unpleasant to watch, but a 50-something woman's flabby stomach bouncing around and hanging loosely over her 20-something open-front Latin costume's waistline is one of them. Ugh! Women who no longer have the trim body they used to have can still look awesome if they just wear the right costume to suit their changing body shape.

[Adwiz]

As for what "outsiders" think about ballroom- my macho latino buddies seem to get nauseous at the thought of it. They're always scowling & making fun of the dancers that are still practicing at the studio when we get there early to set up for our parties.

They're just jealous.

[Adwiz]

BTW, I love that show. I saw a couple of them. One where a go-go dancer had to become an equestrian or the guy who had to become the head chef, can't remember what he was before. Haven't seen anymore in a while - have to look for it again.

I've seen a few episodes, though I haven't had a chance to see the one with Jo. But a couple of things have come to mind:

1. These shows use multiple cameras, which means that during the training and events you have at least two betacams with related crew and gear. This is not a minor thing and makes it pretty obvious that something big is being filmed for television.

2. There has to be a need for model releases, which is normally done before filming begins. Not a big deal for a dance comp, because the couples sign up with an agreement to be filmed, but certainly a big deal for some of the other things the episodes have covered. That means even the audience is aware that something big is happening.

3. I've noticed a distinct formula. Person has dream and starts out, somewhat naively, to achieve it. Gets very confident. At one point fails miserably. Gets slammed by the coaches and realizes that he/she has to try harder. More coaches and effort are involved and victory. Is this a natural flow of such an effort, or the formula the organizers realized is best for the show?

[Laura]

I've seen one or two where the person failed miserably, the one with the guy who was training to be a race car driver comes to mind. He got cocky and didn't listen to his coaches and so not only didn't do so well in the race but was picked out as the rookie. This guy really thought that because he was a video game tester for racing games that he had what it took to be a real race car driver!

[Adwiz]

This guy really thought that because he was a video game tester for racing games that he had what it took to be a real race car driver!

:lol: :twisted: Love it!