noob learning waltz from vids, does it work?

[b19wh33l5]

I go out dancing several times a week and can two step, west coast swing, hustle, east coast swing, etc... proficently all night long. Some of the places I go also play waltzes though, especially some of the country/western dance halls, and that is a dance I am not nearly as familiar with. I can entertain any lady that ask me to dance during a waltz by moving her around the floor some and doing some turns, but I learned all of my waltzing informally and it often feels stiff or choppy and I repeat the same things a lot since I don't know much. I want to get better and learn more. I do plan on going to a studio and getting some real lessons, but time does not really permit that right now. I will probably have to wait until spring time for that.

I was looking at this site http://www.starlightdance.com/store/waltz.shtml#SL129 and I liked what I saw. I have a couple of questions though before I drop $40 on a video:

1) Is it a good idea for someone in my position to try to learn waltz from a video?
2) Does the syllabus for the basic level video look good for someone with my experience?
3) Does the syllabus for the basic level video look like it would give me some good options out on the social dance floor?
4) Does anyone have ANY experience with any of Michael Kiehm's instructional videos?

Thanks!

[samina]

Dunno about the quality of the tapes on that site, but I use vids to learn figures -- the Victor & Heather Veyrasset tapes on DanceVision.com.

I watch the tapes once, then re-watch & take notes on how to execute the figures, then practice on my own, then practice with a partner. I've also watched their technique & styling tapes.

FWIW, I do take privates and I social dance, so I'm not learning this stuff in a bubble. But I'm approaching learning from every angle possible, to keep things moving forward at the fastest possible speed.

:)
Samina

[b19wh33l5]

Thanks for the info. I would plan on using the videos as just a tool like you said. I would be practicing everything first with my girlfriend, who I dance with several times a week. Then I would try it with a handful of my closer dancing friends to see if I can actually lead the moves without them knowing what is comming. Then I would take it straight to the social floor to see how many people I can do it with. I am VERY cautious about creating a "dance bubble" around any of the styles of dance I do. Thanks for the info.

[samina]

Thanks for the info. I would plan on using the videos as just a tool like you said.

I think can only help! :)

Good luck!

Sami

[Chris Stratton]

Videos can be of some value. However, in a dance like waltz, quality and ease of movement is really the goal rather than variety of material. Learn to lead a half dozen things quite well and you will have great dances that are quite comfortable for the person you are dancing with.

Unfortunately, that is harder to pick up from a video. Many of the key details are customarily taught by feel rather than by explanation, and you can't feel what the teacher on a video is like to dance with.

As a suggestion, try looking around at the sample clips of some of those videos, and figure out how to make your computer step through them one frame at a time, really paying attention to exactly how the bodies are moving.

[and123]

Yes, those sound like very typical socially danced Smooth Waltz steps. I've seen a few of Michael Kiehm's videos (WCS I think). Fantastic personality, which can make a difference to a beginner when watching an instructional tape. For instance, I bought a technique video many years ago by Andrew/Loraine Sinkinson, and nearly fell asleep. When I watched it more recently, it was easier to pay attention and made more sense now that what they were presenting has already been described to me in various ways by my instructors. cheek2cheek.net also has a plethora of videos (VCDs/CDroms is probably the more appropriate term). I have a few (Standard, not Smooth). If you can get past the typos and the guy's foreign accent, they're a decent value for the price (though they nail you on shipping).

[Love2Dance]

One of my coaches once told me that videos are great to use. However, one of the reasons you use a coach in the first place is not just to tell you what to do and how to do it, but the coach primarily lets you know what you are doing wrong. No video in the world can tell you what you are doing wrong. It can tell you what is commonly done wrong by a lot of people, but unless you have someone standing there and watching you, it's really hard for them to tell you what you are doing wrong or how you should try to fix it.

[b19wh33l5]

One of my coaches once told me that videos are great to use. However, one of the reasons you use a coach in the first place is not just to tell you what to do and how to do it, but the coach primarily lets you know what you are doing wrong. No video in the world can tell you what you are doing wrong. It can tell you what is commonly done wrong by a lot of people, but unless you have someone standing there and watching you, it's really hard for them to tell you what you are doing wrong or how you should try to fix it.

Absolutely! I could not agree more. I have every intension of taking some lessons at a real studio some time this spring or summer when my schedule will allow it more. For right now though I would like to get at least a bit of a jump start and learn what I can, realizing there will be some stuff I need to fix later on. I do think my other social dancing experiences will help minimize the number of things I need to fix by just learning waltz through social dancing and video with no in-person instruction though. I also have opportunities to dance with a college ballroom dance club between now and the time I can make it to the studios as well. So that should help at least some. Thanks for the input.

[b19wh33l5]

cheek2cheek.net also has a plethora of videos (VCDs/CDroms is probably the more appropriate term). I have a few (Standard, not Smooth). If you can get past the typos and the guy's foreign accent, they're a decent value for the price (though they nail you on shipping).

Thanks for the tip I will have to check it out :D

[Purr]

You might want to check with your local library, and see if they have any dance videos or DVD's available. They're free. The ones I checked out through my library were decent enough, sticking with basic syllabus figures with narrative beginners could understand.

My two cents worth - if you have time to go out several times a week dancing, then you can make time for a lesson or two - if it's really important to you.

[waltzgirl]

IME, Country waltz has some different figures from ballroom waltz (which has two different versions--Standard (International) and Smooth (American)). Make sure you're learning the version of waltz that you want to do at the places you dance.

[little_mouse]

I agree with Purr. Why not check your local library first before buying. I did a quick check one day and found my library system had 7 videos to checkout.

[DennisBeach]

We all our different, but for most people it is best to work with a teacher to learn the basics and technique of a dance. Than use videos to learn manuevers. One problem with learning basics from videos, is you can not see yourself and really tell if you are doing things correctly. We worked with teachers on technique and some manuevers. Than add videos to learn additional moves that use the technique the teachers taught us.

[Purr]

Just for laughs, I did a search on my library system, using "country dance" as the search terms. I got a number of hits, for videos, DVD's, and books on country partner dancing, as well as country line dances.

[b19wh33l5]

IME, Country waltz has some different figures from ballroom waltz (which has two different versions--Standard (International) and Smooth (American)). Make sure you're learning the version of waltz that you want to do at the places you dance.

True, but the gap has been narrowing between smooth and country. You are right, there are still different figures used for these styles, but most pros on the country circut get their waltz instruction from ballroom people.

[b19wh33l5]

We all our different, but for most people it is best to work with a teacher to learn the basics and technique of a dance. Than use videos to learn manuevers. One problem with learning basics from videos, is you can not see yourself and really tell if you are doing things correctly. We worked with teachers on technique and some manuevers. Than add videos to learn additional moves that use the technique the teachers taught us.

After dancing last night I am starting to lean towards this idea a little more. Especially if I can just get waltz vids for free from the library to supplement what I would be learning in a studio.

[b19wh33l5]

Just for laughs, I did a search on my library system, using "country dance" as the search terms. I got a number of hits, for videos, DVD's, and books on country partner dancing, as well as country line dances.

I will look into it soon, I promise!

[Love2Dance]

True, but the gap has been narrowing between smooth and country. You are right, there are still different figures used for these styles, but most pros on the country circut get their waltz instruction from ballroom people.

I've asked different pros before what the differences between the waltz and the country waltz are. I always get the same answer: Waltz is waltz, no matter what.

Some people say if it's done with a lot of alcohol in a country bar, it's a country waltz.:p

I've seen ballroom events and country events. The only difference I can really say for sure is that country waltz seems to involve cowboy hats and boots ;)

[waltzgirl]

Maybe it's just that the figures used more frequently differ between the two settings. My experience with country waltz is limited but every time I've done it socially, there's been a ton of stuff in shadow position, which I rarely see in social ballroom settings.

[samina]

Wow, I didn't know waltz was danced in country.

But I know hardly a thing about country-western dancing.

[Love2Dance]

Maybe it's just that the figures used more frequently differ between the two settings. My experience with country waltz is limited but every time I've done it socially, there's been a ton of stuff in shadow position, which I rarely see in social ballroom settings.

That's funny... I think the most common thing I've noticed is that when someone who only does 2step does a waltz, they tend to try and do it like a 2step, so they tend to not use any angles on the floor and I have a hard time feeling like it's really a waltz, but I think that's more the leader's doing than anything. I guess it also depends on the area. It seems each city you go to, people tend to have the same or similar "favorite" steps. Of course, that could probably apply to more dances than just the waltz. ;)

[DennisBeach]

After dancing last night I am starting to lean towards this idea a little more. Especially if I can just get waltz vids for free from the library to supplement what I would be learning in a studio.

Once you have the techniques down, one nice thing about videos. The man can get a head start on a new manuever and is able to lead it when he starts working with the lady on it. One problem with learning new manuevers during lessons is we would initially do it with very little lead and follow. Than try to add lead/follow after I understood the manuever. With the videos, we learn many new manuevers just working together for a few minutes.

[bella317]

This is a little different, but bellydance, and I use videos to practice when I'm not taking a class. I think it's a great way to practice.

[Purr]

What is night club 2 step? I danced it recently at a community dance with a good leader. I just followed, and I kind of doubt if anyone would would have guessed I hadn't danced it before. The basic step reminded me a whisk in samba, without the bounce.

[Terpsichorean Clod]

What is night club 2 step? I danced it recently at a community dance with a good leader. I just followed, and I kind of doubt if anyone would would have guessed I hadn't danced it before. The basic step reminded me a whisk in samba, without the bounce.
Mmm, that's a sort of wedding dance isn't it? At least all the betrothed couples at my studio seem to be doing it. :confused:

[waltzgirl]

Yes, I'd say do a samba whisk as though it were a bolero, and you've got the NC2S basic. It makes a good wedding dance because it's pretty easy, can be danced to lots of popular soft rock music, and the basic steps look fancier than waltz or foxtrot basics. It was reportedly invented by Buddy Schwimmer when he was 15 (in the 60s).