Merengue, Hustle and WCS

[tanya_the_dancer]

OK, I am starting this one after I saw some stuff in the lessons thread.

Where do you stand on these 3 dances? Do you compete in them in American Rhythm, do you take lessons on them? Feel free to add anything.

Me:

I hate merengue. I won't dance it. I feel ambivalent about the other two, did one or two heats of WCS in my 2nd comp when I was still doing smooth/rhythm combo, and now I will dance them socially at the parties, but even if I ever compete in rhythm again, I probably will not bother with either hustle or WCS.

[Katarzyna]

merengue is my favourite, hustle is so much fun wcs... if I knew it I would love to dance it, looks great, but can't do it

[PasoDancer]

With the right partner, merengue's fun- but I don't know a lot of it at all. J does the sideways basic around the whole floor forty times, so I get disgusted and sit down (and he has that big, cow-eyed stupid expression like "what did I do wrong?"... and I tell him "just stop breathing already..." you know what I mean).

I love Latin Hustle. I don't dance a lot of 3-count hustle with J because I don't trust him. I don't want to be elbowed in the face or jerked off my feet.

I hate WCS. It's country.

[Peaches]

Love merengue, especially when there's some great chemistry.

Love the abandon, and my inability to think during hustle.

WCS. *sigh* Want to like it, but really can't. The only time I don't HATE it is when I'm dancing it with one of my teachers.

[fascination]

I have an aversion to competing in them all but will do anything once...

meringue, I loathe
hustle...fun and mindless for me and that's all good at parties, which I love
WCS...less evil twin of ECS...agree that I hate the ones that are country, but I dig the sexy blues sorts of ones...I find any step involving together and then in another direction evil...thus I have a very rough time with it esp sailor shuffles and the like...and I really find the whole patty cake thing to be lame

[fireinflight]

I hate WCS. It's country.

Hmm... is this the same WCS I know? The places I've been have only played blues/pop music for WCS, and the dancing has been very un-country - smooth and really sexy. I've never done WCS as related to the ballroom scene, though, it was always at WCS clubs or as a social class. Is ballroom style WCS different?

I haven't done hustle much yet, but I hope to soon - the three-count sounds fun, and I'm looking forward to the arm styling!

Merengue... eh. I can take it or leave it. The music seems very monotonous to me, but maybe I haven't heard good merengue songs.

I haven't taken any private lessons in any of these - all my money is taken up in ballroom lessons! But I totally would in WCS if I had the money and the time. (Or if I had an enthusiastic partner! Any volunteers?)

[wooh]

Merengue, only if I'm asked, or if I'm leading.
Hustle, I absolutely adore it! Of course, mostly it's because I love the music.
WCS, ugh. Don't like it. Rarely even like watching it. I've tried to like it. Just can't. Nope. Not gonna do it. If asked, I deny knowing it.

[jschaab]

I really enjoy WCS and Hustle.

I hate Merengue with a passion. Although it tends to make problems in my cuban motion quite obvious, so occasionally working on it has its uses.

At competitions I tend to enter everything I can. I'd rather be out on the floor than sitting on the sidelines.

[tanya_the_dancer]

I have an aversion to competing in them all but will do anything once...

meringue, I loathe
hustle...fun and mindless for me and that's all good at parties, which I love
WCS...less evil twin of ECS...agree that I hate the ones that are country, but I dig the sexy blues sorts of ones...I find any step involving together and then in another direction evil...thus I have a very rough time with it esp sailor shuffles and the like...and I really find the whole patty cake thing to be lame

I don't like WCS or ECS music in general, although sometimes there are nice ones. In one group class on WCS the teacher used Madonna's song I liked, for example. But in general, if you group music by dance type, there will be many more swings I don't like, than for example, waltzes or tangos or rumbas. But I don't mind ECS as a dance (I hope I am making sense here), it actually was my second-best dance when I competed in rhythm.

Merengue - I just hate its music. I mean it. It makes my ears wilt and fall off ;)

[waltzgirl]

Merengue -- soft spot for this dance, because when I first started dancing, I refused to move my hips, so pro taught me a little meregue to jump-start the process. Never learned any actual steps beyond that. Only dance it at socials, mostly with guys who invent stuff as they go along. Lots of fun.

Hustle -- had one group class years ago, so it's my one dance I learned "on the floor." Only dance at socials, lots of fun (as long as I don't get an arm yanker). Pro used to be a purist and only teach the "official" dances, but he's loosened up since. We tried hustle once, but after I did my thing and he wanted me to think about what I had just done, my head nearly exploded. Decided to keep hustle as a "don't think, just do it" social dance.

WCS - very intimidated by it at first (you mean I'm supposed to do something completely different than the guy does--no thanks, give me that natural opposite movement). Have tried to start learning it several times, but something always interferes. Was taking a great class last summer and starting to really get the feel of it and enjoy it, then I hurt my foot and couldn't dance for a month. My sister is a long-time WCS dancer and I may take some lessons with her pro next time I visit her.

NC2S - belongs in the same category, IMO. Really enjoy this dance. Took several group classes and did a group showcase routine in it. I'm getting a bit rusty because it's not played that often at my studio's socials.

[PasoDancer]

is this the same WCS I know?

Honestly, I dunno! LOL- There's this "cult" of loyal WCS lovers who go all "surfer hippie" when they talk about it.. "It's, like, NOT anything you've seen, man! It's different! It like takes stuff from salsa and tango and then swing... whoa..."

... but it always LOOKS the same to me. But then you see Jordan and Tatiana doing what is labeled WCS and think "Whoa- that DOES look fun.... but it looks more like a partnered freestyle"... so I'm just not sure.

I should say "the WCS I've seen, even by people I really love to watch at our studio"... just ain't my thing. And I wouldn't hurt anyone locally's feelings by saying so. But urgh- no WCS for me, unless it's in a group class or something.

[WorksForShoes]

Don't compete in anything at the moment, so that's not an issue here. However~

Meringue, I love. However, I don't really like "ballroom meringue," referenced above as the side basic around the floor dozens of times (while everyone at the tables debates whether meringue is a spot dance or a progressive one). I like doing it in a club, with a mojito on the table and shoulder to shoulder with others and spinning around and around and forgetting all my problems from the week.

Hustle, I also love. Really want to learn more, but then again I am a child of the 70s so that is my music. I also think there is an element to it that SNF came out when I was 9, so functionally hustle is the first partner dance I ever saw. Therefore, hustle has the same romantic associations for me that maybe foxtrot has for those whose first movies were Astaire and Rogers.

WCS--Really an uphill struggle right now, so we've kind of backburnered it. However, we did go to a workshop in October with Beatta Howe that makes me really want to learn this right.

[PasoDancer]

Wait- what's NC2S??

[waltzgirl]

Nightclub Two Step

[mamboqueen]

I have an aversion to competing in them all but will do anything once...

meringue, I loathe
hustle...fun and mindless for me and that's all good at parties, which I love
WCS...less evil twin of ECS...agree that I hate the ones that are country, but I dig the sexy blues sorts of ones...I find any step involving together and then in another direction evil...thus I have a very rough time with it esp sailor shuffles and the like...and I really find the whole patty cake thing to be lame

with you...although probably have a stronger like for hustle. stuck in the 70's, remember?

[Indiana_Jay]

Don't compete at all.

Don't like Merengue much, mostly because I don't know enough steps to keep from being mind-numbing.

Hustle is OK, but again, I only know a few basics.

Spent a few privates trying to learn WCS. Found it difficult. Teacher left studio, haven't gotten back to it. But it looks like once one learns WCS it could be fun. And the WCS dancers sure seem to be devoted to it. It's still on the list of things at which I'd like to become proficient, but there are other priorities ahead of it.

NC2S looks like a very useful dance for social, because it can be done to so many slower pop songs that don't really work for any other dance. Again, I only know a bacic step and an underarm turn and I'm sure I'll like it more if/when we learn more of it.

-I_J

[reb]

I've been amazed with some of the WCS danced in clubs with WCS competitions (and with Lindy).

[cornutt]

Hmm... is this the same WCS I know? The places I've been have only played blues/pop music for WCS, and the dancing has been very un-country - smooth and really sexy. I've never done WCS as related to the ballroom scene, though, it was always at WCS clubs or as a social class. Is ballroom style WCS different?


I think that's a function of where Paso lives. I can tell you that it isn't country when I do it! :raisebro:

Fascination: The point of the whole "patty cake" thing is this: How close can I bring her in before she flinches? How close will she get? If I dare her, will she take that dare? And how much trouble will I be in if she doesn't? Or, for that matter, how much trouble will I be in if she does? And can I get away with spanking her during a right-side pass? It's a tease every six beats! :raisebro:

[cornutt]

And to answer the original question:

WCS: Yes, definitely.
Hustle: Yes, but I don't know much. Would like to learn more.
Meringue: no.

[GJB]

Merengue - Don't think I'd want to spend the money to take private lessons on this one - I'll save the money for the more difficult dances. But, I thinks it's pretty fun to social dance. Always seem to laugh at myself and have a good time.

Hustle - Awesome ! Love some of the old classic music.

WCS - Awesome ! Wide variety of interesting music to dance to. As someone else mentioned, it does allow you to incorporate some freestyle and aspects of whatever other dance styles you might know. Many women like it because they feel it allows them to be more creatively involved in the dance. If you haven't been to a WCS comp., you really need to attend one to really experience the dance.

[fascination]

I think that's a function of where Paso lives. I can tell you that it isn't country when I do it! :raisebro:

Fascination: The point of the whole "patty cake" thing is this: How close can I bring her in before she flinches? How close will she get? If I dare her, will she take that dare? And how much trouble will I be in if she doesn't? Or, for that matter, how much trouble will I be in if she does? And can I get away with spanking her during a right-side pass? It's a tease every six beats! :raisebro:well, now that you put it that way...:cool: going to heritage?;)

[ChaChaMama]

West coast swing--Love it. I don't know tons of steps, but some of the moves I do know are super fun!

Hustle--Really enjoy it. Wish I could remember more. We did a showcase of this back in spring 2002, when I was in the first trimester of pregnancy, but we had a bit of hiatus from dancing after the baby was born, and we forgot a lot of our moves.

Merengue--It's okay.

I don't compete or take lessons in any of these dances at present since we now focus on international latin, but given infinite time and money, I'd love to learn more.

[NielsenE]

Merengue: somewhere between hatred and loathing

Hustle: love, want to learn more, but not enough to give up time with another dance

WCS: love, need to learn more, but need to find a studio/teacher that works for me -- don't like the way my studio styles it at all, didn't like the atmosphere/attitude at a studio with styling I liked. (I tend to like the more "authentic" less ballroom-ized approach)

[Pam]

Merengue - Don't think I'd want to spend the money to take private lessons on this one - I'll save the money for the more difficult dances. But, I thinks it's pretty fun to social dance. Always seem to laugh at myself and have a good time.

When my SO and I first saw Merengue done it was at a social and it was played almost every third or fourth dance. At that time we didn't know what it was called so we just named it "that stupid one step dance" lol But everyone seemed to be having a good time.

[PasoDancer]

... Why I didn't know NC2S.. I was thinking North Carolina something. Ugh. Today's just been...

[PasoDancer]

I kind of like NC, but J's left arm "flaps" on the sideways whisks and no amount of griping this far has remedied it. I always get lazy on my side whisks and just kind of lean and stuff. I'm just glad that they don't play a lot of country at all around here at our places.

[Vince A]

WCS-my most favorite and best dance . . .
Hustle-another favorite . . . need to learn more
Merengue-can do it . . . bores me

BTW . . . I crack up when I watch 'ballroomers" WCS . . . yea, I'm ready for the flames!

[DennisBeach]

[QUOTE=tanya_the_dancer;347007]OK, I am starting this one after I saw some stuff in the lessons thread.

Where do you stand on these 3 dances? Do you compete in them in American Rhythm, do you take lessons on them? Feel free to add anything.

QUOTE]

Merengue for us is a fun dance. Even though we are ballroom dancers, we do it as a spot dance. I frequently make things up when we are dancing merengue.

Hustle is another fun dance, if the music is good. We like the European Hustles and sit out most American Hustles. Like most people around here, we do more of a open single time swing, than a true hustle.

West Coast Swing is the only one of the 3 we worked on much with our teachers. It's our favorite swing dance. Learning slot technique has helped in our other dances. We like both the blues and country music for west coast swing.

We are easy to please, we like all of the ballroom dances we have learned and have an opportunity to dance. We like the variety doing a lot of different dances provides.

[LucyDiamond]

Merengue - Will dance it socially.

Hustle - Don't like it and try not to dance it.

WCS - Am learning it now for a student showcase I'll be in the end of January. I'm really liking it.

Paula

[PasoDancer]

BTW . . . I crack up when I watch 'ballroomers" WCS . . . yea, I'm ready for the flames!

Aha- so there's a difference in "normal WCS" and "ballroom WCS"... but what? It's confusing.

[Keelzorz]

ha! I was at a social dance last Saturday and started dancing to a swing that was put on that just seemed so slow from the professional DJ! My partner looked at me and said "this is slow....really slow.....so do you know west coast?" My response was, "I can remember the basic and follow the rest". Went waaaay better than a slooow east coast swing would have!!

I've had a couple bad experiences with leaders becoming irate if I "left the slot" during a social dance. WCS has never really grabbed my attention, but I'm starting to give stuff like argentine and wcs another chance as time to play around a little more.

Hustle? Amazing. I will never turn down a hustle, unless I just finished doing one and need to catch my breath or die. For the longest time my cell phone ringer was "Vamos a la Playa" (one of our team's classic and BEST hustles!)

Merengue? I could take it or leave it in ballroom context. Don't shoot me, but I like the alternation of dances in an evening, so salsa parties that dance four salsas, two merengues and a bachata (and then repeat!) bore me quite quickly.

[Joe]

I have an aversion to competing in them all but will do anything once...

meringue, I loathe
Ah, but baked with a nice dusting of sugar, it can be really tasty! ;)

[Purr]

Yes and yes to all 3 dances. I see west coast swing a lot on my lessons, less so for hustle, and not very much (if at all) for merengue.

[fascination]

Ah, but baked with a nice dusting of sugar, it can be really tasty! ;)
all right you caught me... merengue? ???? sticks tongue out...punk

[fascination]

I also have to confess that I probably feel hostile about these dances b/c selfishly, other than the fact that they give me time to go to the bathroom at comps, I get sick of watching 3 or 4 people generally dancing badly take up extra hours of time when I could be sleeping or eating ...but am instead stuck there with huge spaces btwn my heats...same thing re:peabody which is a fun dance

[samina]

Wow... I'm surprised to see so much merengue loathing. Although I can understand -- merengue as it's usually danced at social is Bor.ING.

But if you've got a dynamic leader, it can be just the funnest most exhilarating nonstop rollercoaster ride! I think Merengue, like Bachata, excels in a club environment, anyway.

For hustle, I know just enough to get by. There are some serious hustle students & socials in my area, but I just don't have time to add something new in, as much as I'd like to with this one.

WCS... don't know it. Looks fun. It's very big where I social dance, more bluesy & sexy than country. But this dance appears nowhere on my priority list for now. Later on, when I can dance International open gold, maybe... :)

But I consider these party dances, anyway... would never think to compete in any of them.

Samina

[cornutt]

well, now that you put it that way...:cool: going to heritage?;)

Wish I could. Unfortunately I'm going to be "on assignment", as they say, for most of December and January.

[Peaches]

Um, 2 questions.

1. What's this ballroom wcs v. real wcs thing?

2. What's this "patty cake" deal? Are you all talking the 2-hand contact/stopping thing that happens in a sugar push/push break/basic/whatever it's called? If it is, I think that's one of the few things I like about wcs...with the right leader.

[Purr]

I also have to confess that I probably feel hostile about these dances b/c selfishly, other than the fact that they give me time to go to the bathroom at comps, I get sick of watching 3 or 4 people generally dancing badly take up extra hours of time when I could be sleeping or eating ...but am instead stuck there with huge spaces btwn my heats...same thing re:peabody which is a fun dance

I'll keep this in mind if we ever up at a comp. You can go to the bathroom while I keep on dancing. You don't have to suffer watching my dancing. ;)

Adding this dances to the 5 basic dances can create something of an endurance test in american rhythm, in particular if you're doing a lot of entries. Both hustle and merengue are high energy dances. Even west coast swing can be a workout for the lady, if she's moving up and down the slot quite a bit. But, I'd rather be out on the floor dancing rather than sitting down. :)

[Vince A]

Peaches, you and PasoDancer asked a similar question:

1. What's this ballroom wcs v. real wcs thing?
I really don't know the answer to that question, and I surely wasn't knocking the ballroom style of WCS. I would imagine that their rules are much more strict than what I'm used to dancing/competiting in - the UCWDC and the WSDC.

I personally think the ballroom style has "no soul" . . . "no personality" . . . and "lacks dance interpretation" of the music.

I've seen many ballroom comps, and have many ballroom tapes/DVDs . . . and all the ballroom WCS dancers look the same . . . and, in social dance, the followers can't follow as easily! Oh, they can follow, but if I try to get down and funky and sexy on the floor, the ones that I've danced with . . . couldn't get into it! And yes, I know there are those who can . . . in fact I took WCS lessons from a ballroom instructor!

. . . Sorry, it's only my 2(ents!

[fascination]

thousand pardons purr...didn't mean to offend...it just usually seems like most of the folks who dance them at comps either throw them in at the last minute without much preparation, or what have you, lol, am sure you don't fit into that category...forgiven?

[fascination]

Peaches, you and PasoDancer asked a similar question:

1. What's this ballroom wcs v. real wcs thing?
I really don't know the answer to that question, and I surely wasn't knocking the ballroom style of WCS. I would imagine that their rules are much more strict than what I'm used to dancing/competiting in - the UCWDC and the WSDC.

I personally think the ballroom style has "no soul" . . . "no personality" . . . and "lacks dance interpretation" of the music.

I've seen many ballroom comps, and have many ballroom tapes/DVDs . . . and all the ballroom WCS dancers look the same . . . and, in social dance, the followers can't follow as easily! Oh, they can follow, but if I try to get down and funky and sexy on the floor, the ones that I've danced with . . . couldn't get into it! And yes, I know there are those who can . . . in fact I took WCS lessons from a ballroom instructor!

. . . Sorry, it's only my 2(ents!
:shock: lol, begins hunt for my soul;)

[Vince A]

I also have to confess that I probably feel hostile about these dances b/c selfishly, other than the fact that they give me time to go to the bathroom at comps, I get sick of watching 3 or 4 people generally dancing badly take up extra hours of time when I could be sleeping or eating ...but am instead stuck there with huge spaces btwn my heats...same thing re:peabody which is a fun dance
Ever wonder why 3 or 4 individuals get up to go to the bathroom when you start to dance???;)

[Indiana_Jay]

I surely wasn't knocking the ballroom style of WCS.
Shows what I know. I wasn't aware there was a "ballroom style" of WCS. We dancers sure are good at complicating things, aren't we?

[fascination]

b/c I'm just a newb bronze dancer...but anyhow, can't help it...gotta pee some time and i am dancing most of the other heats...nothing personal...I just don't like those dances and its a good time to go...ftr, I love watching good wcs at clubs and parties, but I don't find it to be well done at ballroom comps very often do you?

[Indiana_Jay]

b/c I'm just a newb bronze dancer...but anyhow, can't help it...gotta pee some time and i am dancing most of the other heats...nothing personal...I just don't like those dances and its a good time to go...ftr, I love watching good wcs at clubs and parties, but I don't find it to be well done at ballroom comps very often do you?
With all the swing organizations and swing comps out there, why do ballroom comps even have WCS heats?

[fascination]

I am postitively ignorant of things like that...being new myself

[Ithink]

WCS is definitely tops for me but NOT ballroom WCS. For the unititiated, ballroom WCS is just like ballroom salsa - a bastardized, technicalized version of something that is very much a street dance...

[fascination]

exactly, well...I wouldn't have used that one particular adjective...but yea

[tanya_the_dancer]

I also have to confess that I probably feel hostile about these dances b/c selfishly, other than the fact that they give me time to go to the bathroom at comps, I get sick of watching 3 or 4 people generally dancing badly take up extra hours of time when I could be sleeping or eating ...but am instead stuck there with huge spaces btwn my heats...same thing re:peabody which is a fun dance

Sometimes a little break is welcome though. After I dance 5 dances or more in a row, I usually feel like getting a drink of water ;) If they stick in a peabody heat every now and then, so that I can get my drink ;) , I totally don't mind that.

[tanya_the_dancer]

With all the swing organizations and swing comps out there, why do ballroom comps even have WCS heats?

I heard it's so that people going for top teacher/top student can get more entries.

[Indiana_Jay]

WCS is definitely tops for me but NOT ballroom WCS. For the unititiated, ballroom WCS is just like ballroom salsa - a bastardized, technicalized version of something that is very much a street dance...
I guess I don't understand why the folks who "invented" "ballroom WCS" couldn't leave a perfectly cool dance alone! Oh well...

[Indiana_Jay]

I heard it's so that people going for top teacher/top student can get more entries.
:uplaugh: Good answer! If there's a buck in it, someone will do it!

[NielsenE]

My impression of ballroomized WCS is that they took one look at "anchor" step and decided either a) its not flashy enough or b) its too hard to get really understand the nuances of connection it entails. Then they decided it wouldn't work for beginners and jazzed it up to the point that its silly...

Instead of the simple subdued in place tripple that's all abount feeling where your partner is, you get these huge moving steps that end in a "yank" instead of a nice gentle pull. Now I can see that it might be a more beginner friendly pattern, but I've never seen it refined back to the "simpler looking" but oh so much more satisfying step...

Then all the other steps got jazzed up to match the level of display of the anchor and all character of WCS was lost.

[jschaab]

Perhaps the issue with ballroom WCS stems from the fact that its one of these 3 dances which generally ballroom folks don't focus on. Therefore from a technique perspective a lower quality is generally observed. That said I have no idea how to characterize ballroom WCS because I've seen it danced in a ballroom setting to extremes in very different ways. Sometimes very country, sometimes very bluesy, sometimes very disco in appearance.

[samina]

My understanding of WCS is that it's very improvisational.

Now, not to say that ballroom dancers are uptight, but it's possible that they tend as a group to excel at more controlled rather than natural movements, particularly the standard/smooth dancers.

Ballroom figures are generally highly proscribed as opposed to WCS, which -- as I understand it -- provides the lady just enough framework in which to really express herself improvisationally.

If I wanted to learn WCS, I definitely would find an instructor who didn't try to make the dance as proscribed as ballroom figures...

Samina

[redhead]

I learnt merengue in salsa clubs, it's easy enough. Then I saw "silver merengue" on comp program and thought it's a joke, like yeah right, are you gonna invent ballroom cumbia next? It even has syllabus?
Hustle - never took a lesson in it, will dance if led, but doesn't seem like it's worth building a routine in it. Show dance with lifts and stuff - maybe, but it's really just a party dance.
WCS - it looks cool, but I've tried to learn a basic twice and can't do it. Seems complicated enough and I think I'd like it. Not the ballroom kind though, the swing kids kind.

[waltzgirl]

My understanding of WCS is that it's very improvisational.

Now, not to say that ballroom dancers are uptight, but it's possible that they tend as a group to excel at more controlled rather than natural movements, particularly the standard/smooth dancers.

Ballroom figures are generally highly proscribed as opposed to WCS, which -- as I understand it -- provides the lady just enough framework in which to really express herself improvisationally.

If I wanted to learn WCS, I definitely would find an instructor who didn't try to make the dance as proscribed as ballroom figures...

Samina


Forgive me . . .

proscribed = forbidden

prescribed = required

Ex-English teacher, what can I say?

:)

[samina]

Forgive me . . .

proscribed = forbidden

prescribed = required

Ex-English teacher, what can I say?

:)

LOL...

As an inborn hairsplitter myself, I appreciate the correction!

:D
LOL

[bmcclinton]

I really quite like merengue. Its simplicity is liberating. Anything goes in this dance. It can be danced fast or slow, and figures can be simple or complex. As a result, it is probably one of the easiest dances to improvise.

The problem that I see is that many dancers learn merengue when they first start dancing with a few very basic figures and then move on to other latin dances. They don't realize that they can take everything they learn in those other dances and then use it in a merengue.

In my case, I never learned merengue as a beginner. For some reason, the ballroom studios and clubs where I lived didn't include it in their syllabus. So, I was dancing competitively for over 5 years before I first danced it. Since I hadn't been taught any merengue, I didn't have any preconceived ideas of how it should be danced. I just modified stuff I had learned from swing, mambo and salsa, and used it in merengue.

B

[RIdancer82]

merengue - not a fan (though every once in a great while I do enjoy it, but it's rare, and probly highly dependent on who I'm dancing it with)

hustle - can be alot of fun, although too frequently it's not very enjoyable since too many people don't understand how to correctly lead it and they wind up yanking you around in a circle instead.....very uncomfortable

wcs - wish I knew more if it. I know a very little bit and I never used to like it but it's grown on me and I enjoy it now..... just wish I was better at it or knew a bit more of it

never paid for lessons on any of the 3 dances, and most likely won't just yet since any money I can afford to spend on lessons goes to the ones I compete in.

[Vince A]

I really didn't know there was a "ballroom-style WCS," but that is how it is described (vs. doscribed???) in an early post in the thread. So, I borrowed the term.

I don't think there is a difference! I believe that UCWDC and WSDC WCS dancers have a different syllabus (sp?) than those who WCS in ballroom. Actually, there are only a few rules in the UCWDC . . . depending on what level/age/division you dance in . . . things like "there has to be some a vanilla (basic) footwork executed within so many steps" . . . and this may have been changed - it's been a while since I read the rules!

[PasoDancer]

Lol- that's funny- you can't CALL it "bastardization", but you can infer that it is by walking out on it to pee.

Back, back, side-together ROCKS!

Speaking of- the "ballroom WCS" consists of walk-walk-sugarpush-coaster. There IS something considerably more "elastic" and "hustley" about "real WCS" that makes it more fun to watch, but every time I learn a fun WCS step, I can't help but think "how can I turn this into hustle?"

And yes, the 3-count hustle IS scary with the wrong lead, I agree. Latin Hustle has a very WCS-when-done-right (I know nothing of doing WCS right- what am I even saying?) feel of movement when it goes well. I LOVE Latin Hustle. Love it, love it. I apologize for dogging WCS earlier- I should have said "my experience with it sucks" not "it sucks".

I didn't actually SAY it sucked, but I'm trying to head off a slew of PMs indicating that I'm a WCS hater.

[PasoDancer]

PS- Vince- I like your signature line. I don't think anybody'd believe it coming out of me, though.

[marktheshark]

Dunno anything about WCS, but merengue and disco/hustle
are very enjoyable. If only I knew more moves...

[Purr]

I really didn't know there was a "ballroom-style WCS," but that is how it is described (vs. doscribed???) in an early post in the thread. So, I borrowed the term.

I don't think there is a difference! I believe that UCWDC and WSDC WCS dancers have a different syllabus (sp?) than those who WCS in ballroom. Actually, there are only a few rules in the UCWDC . . . depending on what level/age/division you dance in . . . things like "there has to be some a vanilla (basic) footwork executed within so many steps" . . . and this may have been changed - it's been a while since I read the rules!

I've heard at least 2 different dance teachers say the way west coast swing is taught in a ballroom studio is wrong. Basically, they said forget everything you learned.

The difference was the way steps were executed, at least from the follower's perspective. For instance I was originally taught a tap step for the first counts (ballroom), while they thought it should be a compression or other step (not ballroom). I was also taught a coaster step for the last counts (ballroom), while they thought it should be an anchor step (not ballroom).

[tanya_the_dancer]

I really quite like merengue. Its simplicity is liberating. Anything goes in this dance. It can be danced fast or slow, and figures can be simple or complex. As a result, it is probably one of the easiest dances to improvise.

The problem that I see is that many dancers learn merengue when they first start dancing with a few very basic figures and then move on to other latin dances. They don't realize that they can take everything they learn in those other dances and then use it in a merengue.

In my case, I never learned merengue as a beginner. For some reason, the ballroom studios and clubs where I lived didn't include it in their syllabus. So, I was dancing competitively for over 5 years before I first danced it. Since I hadn't been taught any merengue, I didn't have any preconceived ideas of how it should be danced. I just modified stuff I had learned from swing, mambo and salsa, and used it in merengue.

B

Perhaps it is different from leader's perspective. I am a follower, and there is only so much I can have fun with when all the guy is doing is side-together, side-together for the entire song. So it makes it boring. Plus I don't like merengue music so it makes it even worse.

[waltzgirl]

My impression is the WCS has evolved a lot, so some of what you see in ballroom studios is old-fashioned WCS--ballroom instructors teaching it the way they were taught years ago because they haven't kept up with changes in the WCS community. I think that the step-tap, for instance, was once what everybody did, then the wcs community got rid of it.

[samina]

Perhaps it is different from leader's perspective. I am a follower, and there is only so much I can have fun with when all the guy is doing is side-together, side-together for the entire song. So it makes it boring. Plus I don't like merengue music so it makes it even worse.

In defense of merengue, which is surely getting quite the beating today LOL, the most exhilarating dances I've ever danced have been merengue with FABULOUS leaders who threw in every hustle/salsa/swing move they ever learned in fluid patterns within the merengue rhythm... not a side-step in sight! :D

By comparison, I'm totally with ya Tanya... ballroom merengue is the biggest yawn out there!

:)
Samina

[Vince A]

I was also taught a coaster step for the last counts (ballroom), while they thought it should be an anchor step (not ballroom).
I don't like followers that coaster step . . . they're anticipating ct 1.

What if I felt you hit cts 5&6, and I wanted to play a little before I stepped back, ct 1, leading you . . . but if you coaster-stepped, or anticipated ct 1, you've just taken away my play time. Who's the leader here?

And it's OK to take away my playtime, just let me know it by not fully anchoring . . . then we both can play . . . then you can anchor, letting me know you are ready, and then, when I am ready . . .

[samina]

I don't like followers that coaster step . . . they're anticipating ct 1.

What if I felt you hit cts 5&6, and I wanted to play a little before I stepped back, ct 1, leading you . . . but if you coaster-stepped, or anticipated ct 1, you've just taken away my play time. Who's the leader here?

And it's OK to take away my playtime, just let me know it by not fully anchoring . . . then we both can play . . . then you can anchor, letting me know you are ready, and then, when I am ready . . .

This is the aspect of WCS that is so intriguing to me... the "playtime" in between those anchoring steps! How much fun is that -- seems so different from any other dance I've heard about.

I work with someone who competes in WCS and studies with Heidi something-or-other, that SYTYCD Benji guy's WCS partner. We talk about it all the time, but I have zero experience of doing it.

Samina

[marktheshark]

Btw, merengue is probably one of the best ways to try out
figures for other dances in slow tempo without looking totally
out of place.

I've learned many a salsa step after easing into it via merengue.

[fascination]

Sometimes a little break is welcome though. After I dance 5 dances or more in a row, I usually feel like getting a drink of water ;) If they stick in a peabody heat every now and then, so that I can get my drink ;) , I totally don't mind that.
well, that's the thing...I don't mean any offense but ya gotta pick a safe time to step out

[Vince A]

I work with someone who competes in WCS and studies with Heidi . . .
Ask this person to ask Heidi . . . then get him or her to bring it back to you. If anyone can show you both how to do this . . . Heidi can. Heidi and Benji epitomize "playtime" in WCS.

BTW . . . you can play at just about any count in WCS . . .

[fascination]

Lol- that's funny- you can't CALL it "bastardization", but you can infer that it is by walking out on it to pee.

Back, back, side-together ROCKS!

Speaking of- the "ballroom WCS" consists of walk-walk-sugarpush-coaster. There IS something considerably more "elastic" and "hustley" about "real WCS" that makes it more fun to watch, but every time I learn a fun WCS step, I can't help but think "how can I turn this into hustle?"

And yes, the 3-count hustle IS scary with the wrong lead, I agree. Latin Hustle has a very WCS-when-done-right (I know nothing of doing WCS right- what am I even saying?) feel of movement when it goes well. I LOVE Latin Hustle. Love it, love it. I apologize for dogging WCS earlier- I should have said "my experience with it sucks" not "it sucks".

I didn't actually SAY it sucked, but I'm trying to head off a slew of PMs indicating that I'm a WCS hater.let me be clear...I do think WCS is a very cool and difficult dance which I can't do well I think it is rarely done well in a ballroom setting...I love to watch really good west coasters, of which I am not one...I wouldn't use the term bastardization so as not to offend but clearly since I have I apologize...nonetheless those are still the heats during which I usually step out mainly b/c I know I have time to do so and b/c it is rarely done well...I meant no offense...just as I wouldn't be offended that someone doesn't want to get up at 7am to watch me dance...but whatever...rail away

[samina]

Ask this person to ask Heidi . . . then get him or her to bring it back to you. If anyone can show you both how to do this . . . Heidi can. Heidi and Benji epitomize "playtime" in WCS.

BTW . . . you can play at just about any count in WCS . . .

This guy and I compare notes & talk so much about dance at work, it's ridiculous... makes the project I'm on worth double what I'm getting. LOL

I think we're probably headed in the direction of doing a little dancing onsite. Once I bring my little iPod stereo, I know it's all over for us.

I will definitely get him to show me the basics because he's been schooled in that playtime approach bigtime!

Samina

[samina]

I think "bastardization" was actually a pretty appropriate word to use! :)

"–verb (used with object) 1.to lower in condition or worth; debase: hybrid works that neither preserve nor bastardize existing art forms. "

It doesn't have the offensive connotation of calling someone a bastard.
I'm actually partial to the word -- it's got pluck!

LOL

Samina

[PasoDancer]

So do you have to get like underwear, pantyhose, a shaper garment AND the dress bodysuit out of the way on a water-closet break? That's why I'm all but dehydrated by the time a social night ends- I don't drink what I can't sweat, because it takes forever to pee with all my armor on!

[fascination]

to top it all off, there are generally no crotch snaps in a latin outfit so it takes an act of God to get in and out of it...

[samina]

I don't drink what I can't sweat, because it takes forever to pee with all my armor on!

LOL What an image!

I have a friend who was completely sewn in for her recent comp & couldn't pee at all. I told her: puts some snaps on that leotard!!!!

Samina

[Vince A]

"Damn . . . I just hate those snaps on my leotards!"

[fascination]

can't live with em or with out them...the minute you get them put in..well they come off then what are you supposed to do...I mean, no safety pin is goin down there...

[Indiana_Jay]

Just what we need... another thread about leotards! :)

[samina]

LOL

I know, I was wondering about that... they'd have to be industrial-strength snaps. Or maybe a little hook & eye contraption. That might work. I sure wouldn't want the thing to come undone during an inopportune moment!

ha!
Samina

[fascination]

so ...how bout that merengue?

[samina]

Just what we need... another thread about leotards! :)

I'm sure our friend "Amanda" will jump in any moment. :shock:

[samina]

Well, with all this WCS talk, I'm itching to try it...

[fascination]

LOL

I know, I was wondering about that... they'd have to be industrial-strength snaps. Or maybe a little hook & eye contraption. That might work. I sure wouldn't want the thing to come undone during an inopportune moment!

ha!
Saminadierdre puts in really good ones, but not in latin, chrisanne didn't put any in even in my smooth gown...then I had them put in and one flew off the first time I tried to snap it:rolleyes: ...its a crap shoot

[samina]

dierdre puts in really good ones, but not in latin, chrisanne didn't put any in even in my smooth gown...then I had them put in and one flew off the first time I tried to snap it:rolleyes: ...its a crap shoot

Hmmm. Are they easily customizable, do you think? To put them in yourself when they weren't put in by the designer?

Sorry... last leotard comment!
;)

Samina

[and123]

If your crotch snaps are poppin', try heavy duty skirt hooks. And I truly hope you-know-who doesn't chime in with a "which is sexier -- crotch snaps or hooks?" :rolleyes:

Back OT.... ANY dance that is meant to be performed freely like Hustle, WCS, and Salsa will look like crap to true afficionados when it is "ballroomized" (for lack of a better term). And to whomever asked, yes, there is a Merengue syllabus :shock:

[fascination]

and last response...I had them put in by a very good designer...I just thing most of those snaps aren't meant for my industrial strength expanse, lol

hustle anyone?

[PasoDancer]

So, you lot haven't figured out not to feed trolls yet? Any time thongs, leotards, or other crotch-related subjects come up, I use the search feature. Chances are, it's already been hashed-out by the same bored teenager who hasn't figured out how to explore sexuality in a healthier, less- annoying-to-older-people fashion yet.

So I'm wondering why nobody teaches Latin Hustle anywhere? We have one studio here where they actually get quite venomous if you "teach their students anything but 3-count". The 3-count isn't WORKING for the couple we're kind of helping along... they are stiff, they have awkward balance (been there myself), and the rocking centrifugal motion isn't helping them. So, we showed them some "bodily independent" steps in NC and LH. I think we're going to hell now though. Hustle's FUN- we want more people dancing hustle so we aren't the only goofs out on the floor doing it. It's embarassing.

[samina]

So I'm wondering why nobody teaches Latin Hustle anywhere?

There's a very popular teacher in north Jersey who teaches hustle every Wednesday nite -- am seeing someone who always wants me to check it out. Sounds like Hustle Mecca there -- a 2-1/2 hr lesson followed by a couple hours of dancing. Just like what I do for salsa on Thurs nites.

But I just get so tired of having to drive an hour every time I want to dance, and I don't want to get distracted away from my ballroom goals.

But it sounds like so much fun! And I know another studio where the best-of-the-best NJ/NYC hustlers go for socials... would love to attend!

The horror is, I really do have to count to stay with the faster hustle style. Crikey. Or get off-beat. I just don't do it enuf, I think... :(

[PasoDancer]

Two and a half hours? WOW- why am I in the middle of Podunk? *sniffle*

[fascination]

I don't see any trolls on this thread

[PasoDancer]

My bad- I was referencing Amanda/donna/whoever of the leotard/thong/crotchology.

[fascination]

hopefully they have moved on to more fertile pastures

[chandra]

WCS-my most favorite and best dance . . .
Hustle-another favorite . . . need to learn more
Merengue-can do it . . . bores me

BTW . . . I crack up when I watch 'ballroomers" WCS . . . yea, I'm ready for the flames!

yah, me too.

Fascination, next time Im in chicago, let me take you out to a real westie club!! (BTW, Im moving to chicago in may prolly)

[chandra]

On Ballroom vs. WCS:

The main difference Ive seen is in the character of the dance. Ballroom WCS has a hoppy feel to it, like going up on the tripples, its cheesy, like lindy/ECS.

The character of social Westie is either super relaxed or almost hip hop, sometimes cheesy, but in a different way. The sign of a good wcs dancer is how smooth they are - how good their body flight is, and how soft their quality of movement. The lead follow is soft, the too seem to blend into each other so it seems like they are connected through mind not hand. *shrug* just what Ive seen...

[fascination]

yah, me too.

Fascination, next time Im in chicago, let me take you out to a real westie club!! (BTW, Im moving to chicago in may prolly)
would love that...we went to a place in salt lake city that had excellent WCS and I had a ton of fun, but it just isn't the same in the ballroom...would love to just have you in chicago, regardless....chicago also has good salsa and AT....if I was just a tad closer it would be excellent

[chandra]

*yay*
Im just getting college stuff finalized, but yah, its 90%!

[fascination]

kewl...can you say which school or pm me

[Indiana_Jay]

*yay*
Im just getting college stuff finalized, but yah, its 90%!
Congratulations, Chandra!

[chandra]

Right now Im between Columbia (has the major I want, but is super duper expensive) and NorthWestern (out of chicago, but FREEEEEEE, doesnt have the major I want.) I may do northwestern for the first year, gen-ed then transfer!

[samina]

hey chandara... that's great!!!! northwestern's a great school -- take the freebie and figure out how to use what they offer to serve you.

don't go into debt for college... the best advice i could ever give a young adult! :)

samina

[samina]

Two and a half hours? WOW- why am I in the middle of Podunk? *sniffle*

yeah, i live in bull-screw egypt, as they say -- everywhere i go to dance is an hour away. but at least an hour away is chock full of options.

am definitely ready to move closer to dance venues.

back to the subject, tho...

i wonder why salsa wasn't included in the mergengue/hustle/wcs grouping, as it fits into the same kind of alternative fun party dance classification.

ballroom salsa is as tedious as ballroom merengue... BOR.ING.

samina

[tanya_the_dancer]

i wonder why salsa wasn't included in the mergengue/hustle/wcs grouping, as it fits into the same kind of alternative fun party dance classification.

ballroom salsa is as tedious as ballroom merengue... BOR.ING.

samina

You know, I probably forgot it because I read the lessons thread and people were talking about these three. But you're right, salsa belongs in this group as well. And it's another dance I don't like but will do if nicely asked by someone I know.

[waltzgirl]

Right now Im between Columbia (has the major I want, but is super duper expensive) and NorthWestern (out of chicago, but FREEEEEEE, doesnt have the major I want.) I may do northwestern for the first year, gen-ed then transfer!

You might have the option to design an independent major at Northwestern, if they have the classes you would need.

[samina]

You might have the option to design an independent major at Northwestern, if they have the classes you would need.

hey -- great suggestion. i would be surprised if they didn't offer that kind of flexibility.

[liangjz]

merengue- boring
hustle,nc2s- no strong feelings.

West Coast Swing competitors go social dancing more often than ballroom competitors and WCS seems much more tolerant of large skill differences between the two people.

If I wanted to go out and dance std waltz, there are really limits to where I can go and how satisfied I can get at a dance. If either lead or follow is much less skilled than the other, it can really hinder the stronger one.

This isn't near as true for WCS. In my experience, I am much more able to go all out or at least closer to all out at a good WCS dance than I am at a ballroom dance.
That's makes a difference for getting me that dance fix that I need every week.



I personally think the ballroom style has "no soul" . . . "no personality" . . . and "lacks dance interpretation" of the music.

I agree and disagree.

Yes, the type of WCS done by people who mostly do ballroom is less adaptive and playful than the WCS done by the hardcore WCS dancers(that is, those that like to complete in Jack and Jill WCS comps) I love the split second adaptations, the constant partner interplay, and the constant adjustments to the mood and the style of of the music and your partner. Compared to that, most the ballroom-wcs dancers can get boring very quickly.

Then again, I find that the way in which WCS moves lacks the energy and the passion that makes me like ballroom. It's adaptive and creative, but no singular move in WCS is inspiring. Where's the speed? Where's the power? Where's the emotion?

My favorite WCS dancers to dance with are those with a solid ballroom background who also do lots of WCS. I'll put my energy into when I can, but it's definitely nice to see energy thrown back at me.

What I'd like to see, which I know many people disagree with, is more Jack & Jill ballroom events... serious ones. I'd love to see what championship jack & jill internaltional standards would look like.

[fascination]

Right now Im between Columbia (has the major I want, but is super duper expensive) and NorthWestern (out of chicago, but FREEEEEEE, doesnt have the major I want.) I may do northwestern for the first year, gen-ed then transfer!
both are awesome...yay, party...you n me

[Purr]

I don't like followers that coaster step . . . they're anticipating ct 1.

What if I felt you hit cts 5&6, and I wanted to play a little before I stepped back, ct 1, leading you . . . but if you coaster-stepped, or anticipated ct 1, you've just taken away my play time. Who's the leader here?

And it's OK to take away my playtime, just let me know it by not fully anchoring . . . then we both can play . . . then you can anchor, letting me know you are ready, and then, when I am ready . . .

It's hard to get away from a coast step, since that's what I learned first. But I understand what you mean. I have been taught to hang back with the coaster step, while maintaining a connection, like how you would be if you were water skiing.

I don't do that much west coast swing socially, because it's hard for me to follow most leaders. I don't feel any kind of connection, and I can't or won't compensate for it. At community dances, I use those songs as time to take a break.

[Purr]

thousand pardons purr...didn't mean to offend...it just usually seems like most of the folks who dance them at comps either throw them in at the last minute without much preparation, or what have you, lol, am sure you don't fit into that category...forgiven?

Of course you are. :)

I do put a lot of time and effort into west coast swing, and lesser so for hustle. With hustle, though, it's one of those dances you just get up and do it - less thinking the better.

As for merengue, I have a confession to make. For my last competition, pro and I didn't practice. I think we talked about it, but it just didn't happen, as there were too many other things to work on. It didn't matter a whole lot, as merengue was uncontested. I like merengue socially; it's not hard and it can be a lot of fun with the right leader. So at least I practiced, but not with pro.

[fascination]

thanks purr

yea, one time when pro was close to winning top teacher (which never happens, btw) we all pitched in and did hustle heats...and well, our level of preparation left something to be desired

and rumor has it that I will be doing wcs at my next two comps, mostly because I want to learn a bit of it anyhow, and I am dreadful at it

[chandra]

*Yay* Itll be fun Fascination!
Im actually on my way up to chicago right now ;).Errr, that is, about to be on my way up to chicago when I get offline... Im flying out of midway to cleveland for a westie event. I get back monday night at like 10pm, then get to drive 5 hours home. Oh joy. :D

*oops, this isnt the happy and random thoughts thread is it? Ohwell*

[Purr]

thanks purr

yea, one time when pro was close to winning top teacher (which never happens, btw) we all pitched in and did hustle heats...and well, our level of preparation left something to be desired

and rumor has it that I will be doing wcs at my next two comps, mostly because I want to learn a bit of it anyhow, and I am dreadful at it

That happens about practicing. There's just so dances to work on, particularily if you do all 4 styles of dances, and a limited amount of time to do it in. You've got to prioritize. In reality, practice for hustle may occur during dances at a weekly parties, with a some worked on lessons when there's time and need. There's plenty of other dances, like quickstep and samba, that I need a lot more help with.

I enjoy west coast swing, I hope you like it. The count can be interesting, mostly 6 count but some 8 count. I sure like the music. :)

[Purr]

*Yay* Itll be fun Fascination!
Im actually on my way up to chicago right now ;).Errr, that is, about to be on my way up to chicago when I get offline... Im flying out of midway to cleveland for a westie event. I get back monday night at like 10pm, then get to drive 5 hours home. Oh joy. :D

*oops, this isnt the happy and random thoughts thread is it? Ohwell*

I know of 3 people, a lead and 2 follows, going to this event. One said the west coast swing was a jack and jill event, where you didn't know who your partner was until you dance. I hope you have a good time.

[Indiana_Jay]

Im flying out of midway to cleveland for a westie event.
C.A.S.H. Bash? I have a new friend who's going and has gone every year for quite a while. Sounds like a great time for WCS and Hustle fans. Hope you have (had) fun!

[randomMysh]

Heyyy!

Okay, so I was lazy and didn't read the entire 11 pages of discussion so I don't know if someone has already done what I'm about to do. If the answer is yes, please ignore my post.

Just to clarify, I competed in American Rhythm for a number of years, starting out with collegiate comps. I saw plenty of ballroom WCS. This is my idea of ballroom WCS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLkCuSE5Bqs

This cracks me up too!

Okay, and this is the dance I ditched ballroom for:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4yscig0fa8 - Kyle and Sarah. Just for the record, I HATE anything that resembles country music with a passion worthy of a better use, but I still think this is amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3gXSJq_s2s - Jordan and Tatiana. WCS is danced to a lot of very current music. To the point that sometimes I hear new songs at westie comps before I hear them on the radio (if Victor Loveira is DJing).

To be fair, these are routines so of course they are choreographed to the music and all that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY9r9AGEaIk - this is a Jack and Jill. You get a random partner and a random song and wing it. Despite that, you are still supposed to dance TO the music and hit the breaks and all that. And she is soooo smoooooth!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IK-R3Xu_v4 - this might be a Strictly (you enter as a couple, but the song selection is still unknown) because he's wearing a number, but she's not, but I don't know for sure. It's definitely not a routine, they're still winging it. You usually get at least two songs in comps, one fast and one slow, one blues and one contemporary. Still, all breaks are at least acknowledged if not actually hit.

And look, ma - NOT A SINGLE PATTYCAKE!!!!

I'll throw in some Lindy for you, although I personally can't do it to save my life:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=1316162560

I thought a lot about the difference between ballroom (ballroom WCS included) and WCS. I think the two disciplines share pretty much all the elements, but they emphasize different ones. Ballroom, especially high level ballroom, is all about beautiful movement, two bodies pushing the limits and doing some really incredible things perfectly together. This takes a lot of very technical practice and an amazing level of awareness of your own body, how it actually generates the movement. Yes, it's danced to music and yes, you're dancing with a partner, and yes, there's usually an audience, but that's not the focus of the experience.
WCS focuses on music, connection and performance. It makes a lot of sense, since the main competitive event is a Jack and Jill. You can't do the same kinds of things in a JnJ you can do in a routine, you just don't have the same work put into it with this person, obviously. So you focus on improving your lead and follow skills and your ear for the music so you can still dance with whoever you get, to whatever you get, and look good and have fun with it. The audience participates a lot, as you can hear from all the screaming, and the dancers definitely play to the audience while competing.

All that being said, this is still not the coolest part. The coolest part is the late night dancing at WCS comps, when all the top level people come out on the social dance floor and dance with EVERYBODY, doing all sorts of cool stuff, playing to the music, being silly and generally having a blast till 6 or 7 in the morning. Unfortunately I don't have any videos of that, but believe me, it's a lot of fun!

[samina]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY9r9AGEaIk - this is a Jack and Jill. You get a random partner and a random song and wing it. Despite that, you are still supposed to dance TO the music and hit the breaks and all that. And she is soooo smoooooth!!

Hey, Mysh. Thanks for these clips.

I love the Jack & Jill -- that's true spontaneous dancing, and they were fun to watch! They clearly enjoyed the experience.

To me it seems that the first clip, by comparison, is more about a beginning WCS swing couple rather than a different style. They seem to me to be going in the right direction, but their skill level is so much lower -- they don't have the technique down to free up their improvisation, so they seem far more contrived. Or am I missing something?

Laughing at them doesn't make me comfortable... they're doing their best w/in their ability, y'know?

Sure looks like the dance can be so much fun...!

[wooh]

I would hope that if I concentrated on WCS rather than 5-10-20 different dances I'd be a little better at it than a couple doing WCS at a ballroom comp who probably do 5-20 other dances as well.

[randomMysh]

I'm talking about style and emphasis, not ability and only to give people a visual of what is being discussed. I couldn't find a more advanced ballroom WCS clip, but I'm sure most people on this thread have seen it live plenty enough times.
Again, the level of ability of the ballroom couple has nothing to do with it. Their (and the couples in the backgroung) choice of styling is the main point.

[waltzgirl]

My observations on the wcs:

The first couple were obviously at a college comp (gym floor), obviously a beginner level. The couples in the background aren't doing any styling. I've taken some beginning wcs classes from Michael Kiehm and that's pretty much what we all looked like (except for the tap on the sugar push--that is a dead giveaway of ballroom teachers who haven't kept up with changes in wcs). The couple in front did look a bit Rhythm in their styling, but they were also pushing it, not really responding to the music, typical beginner problem.

Jack & Jill--did anyone notice that the lady's last name is Schwimmer? 'Nuf said. This is the style I enjoyed the most--cool and smooth.

The first pro show was a lot of fun, but I hated the music for the second.

Couldn't watch the Strictly--it's R-rated and I'm not signed in to YouTube!

[pygmalion]

Too lazy to read where the thread has evolved. Don't take lessons in any of the three, but have danced all of them, quite a bit. Merengue rocks!!!! IMO. Literally and figuratively. I think it's a widely disrespected, grossly underestimated dance. But then, I first learned merengue many moons ago, before my ballroom dance phase, from a Dominican guy. And it rocks, IMO.

Hustle, OTOH, sucks, IMO. From my little corner of the world, it seems that hustle must be super difficult for leads to lead well. 'Cause very few leads I've danced hustle with have managed to leave my arms in their sockets. And the rock step? Ouch!!! Sad to say, that's often true, dance teachers included, with one notable exception whom I won't name -- the hustle champion guy I danced with a couple GLORIOUS times. :lol: And no, it's not my stiff arms, since, with hustle at least, I pay particular attention to keeping my arms loose and available.

And WCS? Totally rocks, on so many levels I can't even begin to say. Any questions? :wink: :lol:

[reb]

WCS focuses on music, connection and performance
Something to try - watch these clips without the music playing and what do you feel (it helps for a video you haven't posted so you don't accidently sing the song along with them . . .).;)

Then check out some of the ballroom and latin vides on this site and see if you notice a difference, like emotion, etc., and you will even be able to pick up a lot about the music from their dancing.

[GJB]

Something to try - watch these clips without the music playing and what do you feel (it helps for a video you haven't posted so you don't accidently sing the song along with them . . .).;)

Then check out some of the ballroom and latin vides on this site and see if you notice a difference, like emotion, etc., and you will even be able to pick up a lot about the music from their dancing.

What difference do you notice?

In my opinion, the difference in focus on music and connection is more noticeable in lead and follow dancing than in performing choreographed routines. Also, I think connection refers not only to the physical connection but also an attempt to "share an experience" or make a spiritual connection. It's a little easier to do this in WCS (or any dance) where you can actually look at your partner.

[randomMysh]

Something to try - watch these clips without the music playing and what do you feel (it helps for a video you haven't posted so you don't accidently sing the song along with them . . .).;)

Then check out some of the ballroom and latin vides on this site and see if you notice a difference, like emotion, etc., and you will even be able to pick up a lot about the music from their dancing.

I've done both ballroom and WCS and I'm talking about the way it *feels*, not the way it *looks*.

I think I've done everything I'm going to do to explain my point.

To answer the original question:

Merengue - can be lots of fun in the right setting. I completely agree with the earlier poster that it works much better in a club "with a mojito on the table". :)
Hustle - love it!
WCS - well, obviously...:lol:

I do not think any of these belong in a ballroom competition though. My 2c.

[pygmalion]

I've done both ballroom and WCS and I'm talking about the way it *feels*, not the way it *looks*.

I think I've done everything I'm going to do to explain my point.

To answer the original question:

Merengue - can be lots of fun in the right setting. I completely agree with the earlier poster that it works much better in a club "with a mojito on the table". :)
Hustle - love it!
WCS - well, obviously...:lol:

I do not think any of these belong in a ballroom competition though. My 2c.

Oh my goodness! Sounds like I need to read this thread. :?

[VinceraVivere]

I think social WCS is a lot more fun that competition WCS....I originally learned it country-western style and then had to "adapt" a few things for ballroom, which was weird. I think that the country-western style has a lot more playfulness to it, so does just social WCS for that matter. Competitive West Coast has a stiff feel to it; there isn't as much freedom.

As for Hustle and Merengue, Merengue gets really old - there's only so much you can do. Hustle, however, can be fun if you have the right partner. On the competition floor, it's OK, but as a social dance, it's one of my favourites.

As for them belonging in a competition - Merengue I like being there just for the old people. Haha. As bad as that sounds, there are a few older women in out studio who can't do a few other dances very well, but Merengue is their absolute favourite because they can always do well in it.

West Coast I don't think should be competitive, just because it loses a lot of its life on the competition floor and is really more of a country-western dance anyways.

Hustle I could go either way, depending on how it's danced. I think competition limits what you can do and "cramps the style", so to speak, but it's an interesting dance all the same - still, I lean more towards "not competition material".

[waltzgirl]

When you say wcs shouldn't be competitive, do you mean in any venue? It's danced competitively at swing and country western comps, as well as at ballroom comps.

[PasoDancer]

Do you sometimes watch hustle, WCS, some NC and some salsa by "the pros" and think that slowly, they're evolving into one type of dance? Just my pov, but that's the way it seems sometimes when I sit back and watch people "in the know".

I always thought "ballroom salsa" was "watered-down mambo"?

[kayak]

As the pros choreograph their routines, I agree that they start to look similiar. I even have to ask sometimes. I think it is a lot easier to tell the difference in the non-choreographed dances. I guess if you take a salsa and lead mostly cross-body sort of moves and it looks a lot like WCS. Take WCS and start playing with the anchor and it starts to look like salsa. NC2S is kind of like taking the slot and moving left/right instead of front/back. When rumba dancers start doing a lot of whisks, it really looks like NC2S.

[Joe]

If you couldn't hear the music, you wouldn't know.

[chandra]

I dunno, Id know for hustle and WCS for sure. Im pretty sure Id know NC2 aswell.

[Indiana_Jay]

I dunno, Id know for hustle and WCS for sure. Im pretty sure Id know NC2 aswell.
Hey, Chandra, you must have found a way to log in on your way home. How'd the C.A.S.H. Bash (if that's where you went) go?

[cornutt]

I do not think any of these belong in a ballroom competition though. My 2c.

I'm not liking where this thread is going. WCS is a legit Rhythm dance. Should it be eliminated? Should Rhythm dancing be abandoned altogether? Or is it just that ballroom dancers should prohibited from doing it? If I go to a WCS club, will I have to sign an affidavit at the door stating that I'm not a ballroom dancer? If they find out that I am, will they throw me out?

Sorry for the snark; I've always enjoyed doing WCS, along with the other dances I do. But after reading this thread, I'm beginning to think I'm wasting my time with WCS.

[bjp22tango]

I think social WCS is a lot more fun that competition WCS....I originally learned it country-western style and then had to "adapt" a few things for ballroom, which was weird. I think that the country-western style has a lot more playfulness to it, so does just social WCS for that matter. Competitive West Coast has a stiff feel to it; there isn't as much freedom.

West Coast I don't think should be competitive, just because it loses a lot of its life on the competition floor and is really more of a country-western dance anyways.

I'm wondering how many people learned WC Swing just after the Urban Cowboy movie made Country dancing "IN". I learned WC Coast in Maryland in the late 80's but the instructors were getting their material from California and it wasn't particularly Country. Then I moved back to Oregon and there were Rock n Rodeo clubs in several big cities teaching WC Swing with a Country flair.

Then someone who became a friend moved up from California in the early 90's and blew me away with her smooth funky style of WC Swing.

WC Swing adapted to musical changes and, some say, movie stage requirements from Lindy Hop into what we know as WC Swing today. It has adapted to almost every kind of music as it has evolved. I don't think it is fair to say WC is a Country dance or WC is a Blues dance any more than it would be most common for todays young dancers to say WC is a funky/rap/hip hop dance.

It is all of the above. It is evolving. That can be frustrating and exilerating at the same time.

That goes for all the dances. If you were to look at Ballroom dance competitions from 20 years (and even more so 30 years ago) you would see a much different set of dances.

Back to the original question.

Merengue - I love that the basic is so easy. It is great for introducing intimidated newby leaders to latin rythyms because the beat IS so over- emphasized. The basics are boring, but can be quickly changed up with anything you know in any of the other spot dances.

Hustle - I love it. Wish more dancers knew it. I learned the basic step as a follower as a coaster step, but I see everyone teaching it today like an EC back rock. It is more fluid as a coaster step and keeps the ladies momentum moving. It is harder to learn though.

WC Swing - I love dancing it with someone who knows what they are doing. I love dancing to funky music, because I grew up freestyling in the 70's to a lot of funk. It is easy for me to interpret that music. But I like dancing it to other styles as well.

With all the street/ballroom/etc. organizations and competitions taking a hand in promoting this, that, or the other dance I am just always amazed that we can see ANY commonalities in the dances. It is great that we can.

And to whoever suggested the Jack & Jill International Standard competitions - Yeah, that would be something to see. Whoever could win a 10 dance, Jack & Jill, AND Latin and/or Standard competitions would truly be the Worlds best dancers.

[Anna]

Right now Im between Columbia (has the major I want, but is super duper expensive) and NorthWestern (out of chicago, but FREEEEEEE, doesnt have the major I want.) I may do northwestern for the first year, gen-ed then transfer!

But the real question...which was better ballroom? Columbia has an immense team, Northwestern is quite new but they do a spiffy show and just ran their first comp last year (I only know since that happens to be my hometown, a lovely place but of course I'm biased).

As for merengue...eh...maybe if I did it with someone who actually knew more than a basic step. I really enjoy hustle though, I like the feeling of strong connection. I don't think I've ever done WCS.

[fascination]

I'm not liking where this thread is going. WCS is a legit Rhythm dance. Should it be eliminated? Should Rhythm dancing be abandoned altogether? Or is it just that ballroom dancers should prohibited from doing it? If I go to a WCS club, will I have to sign an affidavit at the door stating that I'm not a ballroom dancer? If they find out that I am, will they throw me out?

Sorry for the snark; I've always enjoyed doing WCS, along with the other dances I do. But after reading this thread, I'm beginning to think I'm wasting my time with WCS.a fair point cornutt...sometimes we just take our stuff a but too seriously...still, if its going to be done at ballroom comps I want to see it done like they do it in the clubs...can't help it...it looks sooooo cool that way:rolleyes: