Getting started - Plenty of questions

[sparky]

Before my wife and I were married we wanted to take Ballroom Dance lessons- with the hectic pace that preceeded the wedding, we never did the lessons, and ended up doing the old "hug and sway" as our first dance. As the years passed and we went to other people's weddings, the subject came up again "we really should do those lessons". Finally, we did ( nearly 20 years later ) sign up for a month of lessons. We're having a BLAST. We started with Foxtrot, Tango and Swing. We want to sign up for more- Even after just a few lessons, we feel like we could go up to the dance floor and "look like we know what we are doing".
We'd really like to add Waltz to our repertoire, but it seems like it isn't taught until the more "advanced" classes... is this dance really THAT hard to do?

[Laura]

Does your studio "rotate" through beginning level classes in the different dances each month? If so, maybe if you wait a month or two a beginning waltz class will be taught. Just ask the studio; I've never heard of waltz not being taught to beginners.

[alemana]

no, there's no special mystique, espeically not at the social level. plenty of couples do waltz for their wedding dance, after just a couple of lessons! go for it. :)

[sparky]

Does your studio "rotate" through beginning level classes in the different dances each month? If so, maybe if you wait a month or two a beginning waltz class will be taught. Just ask the studio; I've never heard of waltz not being taught to beginners.

Yes they do- The beginner level has a three month cycle, then intermediate ( also 3 ), Advanced, bronze, silver and Gold. We have no desire to go into competition, but we are having fun, and learning quite a bit. As long as we keeping doing those two things, I see no reason to stop.
I'm not sure about the faster Latin dances.... but I'd be willing to give them a month of classes to see if we like them.

[sparky]

no, there's no special mystique, espeically not at the social level. plenty of couples do waltz for their wedding dance, after just a couple of lessons! go for it. :)


There seems to be a few variations... what is the "common Waltz" ?
we really like the "turning one" we see all the time ( not just the simple box step ).

[yanka]

There seems to be a few variations... what is the "common Waltz" ?
we really like the "turning one" we see all the time ( not just the simple box step ).

I don't think anyone dances the box step forever. The box step is simply taught as the basic in the first lesson or two, but after that you start to move around the room. Waltz, by nature, is a moving dance. The box step just teaches you the method to the madness ;)

[waltzgirl]

I think tango is quite a bit harder than waltz, so if you're doing that, waltz should be no problem.

I've never heard the term "common waltz." There are two waltzes usually taught, The one beginners usually start with is just called waltz, or slow waltz. The other is the faster Viennese waltz, which is the twirly one you see in historical movies. I would recommend learning the regular waltz before you start Viennese.

[sparky]

I think tango is quite a bit harder than waltz, so if you're doing that, waltz should be no problem.
I've never heard the term "common waltz." There are two waltzes usually taught, The one beginners usually start with is just called waltz, or slow waltz. The other is the faster Viennese waltz, which is the twirly one you see in historical movies. I would recommend learning the regular waltz before you start Viennese.

We are actually having the MOST fun with the tango... Looks like there are a few flavors of that dance as well. I looked at the class schedule again, and it doesn't look like they teach Waltz until intermediate-1. I can always ask when we go to class tomorrow night.

OK- Here is a question... we were watching contest footage on the web - could someone give me a quick explanation of what the differences between "Standard" "Smooth" and "Rhythm" ? It seems like the "Smooth" is more..... how can I explain it... "changed" form of the dance... or interpreted might be a better word.

[waltzgirl]

Here's a link to a thread on the two styles, Smooth (American) and Standard (International):

http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=10518&highlight=difference+standard+smooth

[Medira]

OK- Here is a question... we were watching contest footage on the web - could someone give me a quick explanation of what the differences between "Standard" "Smooth" and "Rhythm" ? It seems like the "Smooth" is more..... how can I explain it... "changed" form of the dance... or interpreted might be a better word.

Hi Sparky and welcome to the world of ballroom!

In the North American ballroom world, there are two major styles of dance: International and American. Within those styles, they're divided into the two major types of dance. International has Standard (Waltz, Tango, Foxtrot, Quickstep and Viennese Waltz) and Latin (Rumba, Cha Cha, Samba, Paso Doble and Jive) while American has Smooth (Waltz, Tango, Foxtrot and Viennese Waltz) and Rhythm (Rumba, Cha Cha, Mambo, Bolero and East Coast Swing).

American and International styles are very different from each other at the beginning levels. Footwork, technique and styling are different, as are some of the rules (i.e. you need to remain in closed frame for International Standard, whereas you are allowed to do open [side-by-side] work in the American Smooth counterparts.) As you progress and become more advanced, they tend to become more similar in some respects, but that's only at the high levels.

[fascination]

Before my wife and I were married we wanted to take Ballroom Dance lessons- with the hectic pace that preceeded the wedding, we never did the lessons, and ended up doing the old "hug and sway" as our first dance. As the years passed and we went to other people's weddings, the subject came up again "we really should do those lessons". Finally, we did ( nearly 20 years later ) sign up for a month of lessons. We're having a BLAST. We started with Foxtrot, Tango and Swing. We want to sign up for more- Even after just a few lessons, we feel like we could go up to the dance floor and "look like we know what we are doing".
We'd really like to add Waltz to our repertoire, but it seems like it isn't taught until the more "advanced" classes... is this dance really THAT hard to do?
no, IME they just often wait b/c there is much opportunity to dance it socially, so just ask for it

[sparky]

Here's a link to a thread on the two styles, Smooth (American) and Standard (Interntaional):





Thank you very much- that was enlightening!

[sparky]

no, IME they just often wait b/c there is much opportunity to dance it socially, so just ask for it


I think I will- even if we have to sign up for a few private lessons to do it.

[LACHopeful]

Look at it this way:
Everyone had to start SOMEWHERE.
Bryan and Carmen weren't professionals from the very beginning. I don't know who the leading couple for Ballroom is because I'm still very new to Dancesport but It goes the same for them. So therefore, there absolutely has to be way to teach Waltz to people who started.

It doesn't make sense to have a dance and ONLY teach it to advanced/intermediate dancers.

Anyway, Waltz was the very first dance I learned. I always thought that tango was a hard dance to learn. I guess it varies from person to person.

[fascination]

funny, I found tango to be easiest, no rise and fall, no rolling of feet..but waltz is my favorite...all students should demand it, LOL!!!!!!!!

[fascination]

I think I will- even if we have to sign up for a few private lessons to do it.:cool: well worth it IMO...enjoy...but now you owe me a dance;)

[sparky]

Hi Sparky and welcome to the world of ballroom!
As you progress and become more advanced, they tend to become more similar in some respects, but that's only at the high levels.


Thank you. we're still pretty new to the "Ballroom scene"-
If I had known it was this much fun, I would have done it years ago.
It may be a little more challenging for us because we're quite different in height ( about a 12 inch difference ). I just make sure I take smaller steps. :)

[fascination]

you'll be fine...talk to Indiana Jay about this

[sparky]

Look at it this way:
Everyone had to start SOMEWHERE.
Dancesport but It goes the same for them. So therefore, there absolutely has to be way to teach Waltz to people who started.
.


We started with the foxtrot- we picked it up pretty easily... the instructor kept walking by saying "good, good- that's it".... Pretty amazing for me... I've never danced before at all... ( my wife dances pretty well ). It didn't seem difficult after I knew what the steps were... everything follows a pattern.. Plus, I was enjoying it.. and you always have an easier time learning something you enjoy.

[sparky]

:cool: well worth it IMO...enjoy...but now you owe me a dance;)

I would consider it an honor.... but give me time for a few more lessons first. ;)

[Indiana_Jay]

Welcome back, Medira! http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/aktion/action-smiley-030.gif

[Medira]

Thank you. we're still pretty new to the "Ballroom scene"-
If I had known it was this much fun, I would have done it years ago.
It may be a little more challenging for us because we're quite different in height ( about a 12 inch difference ). I just make sure I take smaller steps. :)

Hee! Yeah, adjusting to the height difference at first can be a bit of a challenge, but once you've got it, it's smooth sailing from there. :) Actually, my parents have a height difference similar to yours, and they were able to overcome it. You'll be just fine. ;)

[Medira]

Welcome back, Medira! http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/aktion/action-smiley-030.gif

JAY!!! *divebombtacklehugs!* http://www.nightstar.ca/cc/style_emoticons/default/wub.gif

[fascination]

IJ is one tall drink of water and his wife is not, I assume they manage

[Indiana_Jay]

IJ is one tall drink of water and his wife is not, I assume they manage
Our height difference is 15 inches (38 cm for our metric-speaking friends)! It mostly means I gotta give up on having any kind of horizontal line in my frame, but I still endeavor to keep my elbows, while considerably lower than in a "normal" frame, parallel. As my LW has grown in her abilities, she has gotten pretty good about reaching back far with her legs, so I don't have to shorten my stride terribly much. At first, however, it is necessary to be careful about that.

[Indiana_Jay]

:cool: well worth it IMO...enjoy...but now you owe me a dance;)
She'll collect, too!

[sparky]

Hee! Yeah, adjusting to the height difference at first can be a bit of a challenge, but once you've got it, it's smooth sailing from there. :) Actually, my parents have a height difference similar to yours, and they were able to overcome it. You'll be just fine. ;)

I'm about 6'4" and my wife is about 5'3".... she wears heels.. I wear flats... it makes it a little easier. Come to think of it, it's easier DANCING with her than it is to get into a car after she's been driving it...

:)

[Indiana_Jay]

We'd really like to add Waltz to our repertoire, but it seems like it isn't taught until the more "advanced" classes... is this dance really THAT hard to do?
Nope. LW and I found waltz not much harder than foxtrot. Other than the different musical meter, the biggest difference IMO (at the very beginning of learning) is the leader has to learn to go backwards half of the time, where a beginning foxtrot leader always goes forward.

Now Viennese Waltz (the faster, spinning waltz) is apparently a completely different story. My LW and I have been dancing since July 2005 and we've seen more than one instructor visibly shudder when we've mentioned an interest in (eventually) learning Viennese. I dunno. It's either really hard, or you gotta be initiated into some kinda secret society before you can learn it!

-IJ

[Medira]

I'm about 6'4" and my wife is about 5'3".... she wears heels.. I wear flats... it makes it a little easier. Come to think of it, it's easier DANCING with her than it is to get into a car after she's been driving it...

:)
*giggles* I can understand that. I have to remember to push the seat back in the car before getting into it if my mother has been driving it before me. Otherwise, I get the joy of bashing my knees on the base of the steering wheel.

[Medira]

Nope. LW and I found waltz not much harder than foxtrot. Other than the different musical meter, the biggest difference IMO (at the very beginning of learning) is the leader has to learn to go backwards half of the time, where a beginning foxtrot leader always goes forward.

Now Viennese Waltz (the faster, spinning waltz) is apparently a completely different story. My LW and I have been dancing since July 2005 and we've seen more than one instructor visibly shudder when we've mentioned an interest in (eventually) learning Viennese. I dunno. It's either really hard, or you gotta be initiated into some kinda secret society before you can learn it!

-IJ

Viennese is a really fun dance, once you get it to the point where you can dance it in control. It's getting the right balance and counterbalance and the right rotation and the ability to travel around the floor without abusing yourself or your partner or anybody else on the floor that's the tricky part.

[Indiana_Jay]

now you owe me a dance:wink:

I would consider it an honor.... but give me time for a few more lessons first. ;)

Fascination will dance with anyone. And she'll be very gracious about it, too, no matter how skilled you are (or aren't). I know from personal experience!

[fascination]

Viennese is a really fun dance, once you get it to the point where you can dance it in control. It's getting the right balance and counterbalance and the right rotation and the ability to travel around the floor without abusing yourself or your partner or anybody else on the floor that's the tricky part.
loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooovw vw

[fascination]

I have been on the recieving end of lots of grace

[Medira]

loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove vw

Me too!

[Peaches]

Now Viennese Waltz (the faster, spinning waltz) is apparently a completely different story. My LW and I have been dancing since July 2005 and we've seen more than one instructor visibly shudder when we've mentioned an interest in (eventually) learning Viennese. I dunno. It's either really hard, or you gotta be initiated into some kinda secret society before you can learn it!

-IJ

Hmmm... Maybe my experience is different b/c I'd been dancing for 2 years before attempting vw, and because I'm doing it with a teacher leading. But personally, I think vw was the easiest one. Not that I do it well, but then again I don't do any standard dance well at this point. But vw just seemed stupidly easy by comparison.

Caveat, once again, I'm NOT saying it was easy to do WELL. Just easier to do. Something about it being faster and not having the pressure of sustaining movements nicely for a long period of time. And, again, this is as a follower dancing with my teacher.

[samina]

I'm about 6'4" and my wife is about 5'3".... Come to think of it, it's easier DANCING with her than it is to get into a car after she's been driving it...

:)

LOL :D

[Katarzyna]

Vw was the easiest one for me from the beginning. It was the first dance that I placed out of in Bronze :)

[sparky]

Viennese. I dunno. It's either really hard, or you gotta be initiated into some kinda secret society before you can learn it! IJ

Our dance class is our "night out" once a week.... I think I'll enjoy each class and learn all the "foundation" things well.... Just keep going... one thing I can guarantee. The next wedding we go to, there will be a LOT of very surprised looking people.

[samina]

loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooovw vw

this past sat nite at a social my instructor pulled me on the floor for a vw and i was so hesitant because we've never gone over it. but he was like, 'come on, let's just try'.

so i just focused on dancing into his arm to my left and holding that axis no matter what, and i was amazed at how my feet managed to just find their place without any tripping in sight! it was so exhilarating! i can see why you love it... :)

the best part was surprising him with how well i did. that just does not happen very often... wish i could bottle the way that feels

[waltzgirl]

Just keep going... one thing I can guarantee. The next wedding we go to, there will be a LOT of very surprised looking people.

You'll have so much fun! The first time I went to a "regular" (or as Keelzorz would say, "muggle") event with dancing is actually a highlight of my dance life. There we were, doing our passable intermediate bronze and people were watching us like we were Fred and Ginger! Such an ego boost!

[samina]

The first time I went to a "regular" (or as Keelzorz would say, "muggle") event with dancing is actually a highlight of my dance life...

LOL what a great description!
i can imagine how much fun it must've been for you...

[sparky]

You'll have so much fun! The first time I went to a "regular" (or as Keelzorz would say, "muggle") event with dancing is actually a highlight of my dance life. There we were, doing our passable intermediate bronze and people were watching us like we were Fred and Ginger! Such an ego boost!

Their jaws hitting the table will send salad forks into the air...
I was always the guy that just sat at the table all night.... maybe got up for one "hug and sway" when they played something slow enough.... dreading it.... hoping to blend into the crowd so nobody noticed. That has changed... now I'm looking forward to it.

[Peaches]

I was always the guy that just sat at the table all night.... maybe got up for one "hug and sway" when they played something slow enough.... dreading it.... hoping to blend into the crowd so nobody noticed.

Are YOU my DH??? Honey, are you keeping your dance lessons a secret to suprise me with??? *lol*

[sparky]

Are YOU my DH??? Honey, are you keeping your dance lessons a secret to suprise me with??? *lol*

There are more guys that *don't* dance at weddings that I have gone to... Most are "table ornaments" like me. I guess it took "the last straw" to get me motivated enough.... Maybe that's what your DH needs ( whatever DH means ).

[LACHopeful]

Quote:
Originally Posted by LACHopeful http://www.dance-forums.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?p=351293#post351293)
Look at it this way:
Everyone had to start SOMEWHERE.
Dancesport but It goes the same for them. So therefore, there absolutely has to be way to teach Waltz to people who started.
.



We started with the foxtrot- we picked it up pretty easily... the instructor kept walking by saying "good, good- that's it".... Pretty amazing for me... I've never danced before at all... ( my wife dances pretty well ). It didn't seem difficult after I knew what the steps were... everything follows a pattern.. Plus, I was enjoying it.. and you always have an easier time learning something you enjoy.


*******************************
I LOVE foxtrot!!!!!

My favorite is Jive and that's the one I started to practice more often when I started Dancesport.
I was told to start with Ballroom then Latin but I was like...NOOOOOOOO I DON' WANNNNNAAA so I didn't.

[DennisBeach]

There seems to be a few variations... what is the "common Waltz" ?
we really like the "turning one" we see all the time ( not just the simple box step ).

Waltz - Bronze or Silver is dance that moves around the floor. With the couple ratating/turning. It is good to know some moves that stay in one place, for when you are blocked and can't proceed forward. Most studios include Waltz as one of the first dances. To do it well is difficult, but learning an adequete waltz and improving the technique as you progress, is a viable option. It was the third dance FADS taught us.

[waltzgirl]

( whatever DH means ).


DH = dear husband

Likewise, DW (dear wife), DS (dear son), etc.

Some men use LW (lovely wife)

A substitution for "dear" can be implied when the emotional weather changes! ;)

[fascination]

sparky...I think the step to which you are referring that doesn't turn is commonly called a progressive, really just half boxes that dont turn, as opposed to ones that do....and yes, anything is difficult at an advanced level, but waltz for goal you have stated, needn't be more daunting than any other dance

[tangotime]

Did not read any of the posts before I wrote this-- why ?-- was shocked at what advice you had been given about Waltz--! It is the very FIRST dance we teach to beginners. I would like to know what is their logic in demoting it , to a later position in learning ? - The simplest construction ,with basic rotation in both directions-- what could be more simpler than that ?

[sparky]

DH = dear husband
Likewise, DW (dear wife), DS (dear son), etc.
Some men use LW (lovely wife)
A substitution for "dear" can be implied when the emotional weather changes! ;)


I sort of figured the H was husband.... I was up in the air about the D part..... DEAR never really crossed my mind (unfortunately)..... :)

Thanks for the explanation.

[sparky]

Waltz - Bronze or Silver is dance that moves around the floor. With the couple ratating/turning. It is good to know some moves that stay in one place, for when you are blocked and can't proceed forward. Most studios include Waltz as one of the first dances. To do it well is difficult, but learning an adequete waltz and improving the technique as you progress, is a viable option. It was the third dance FADS taught us.

Moving around the dance floor seems to me to be an exercise in executing the dance steps while practicing collision avoidance... Being that my wife spends quite a bit of time dancing backwards, I find myself talking to my wife- giving her directions like "wider step" to move us out of the way ... I can imagine how a dance like the VW can turn into a demolition derby if everyone doesn't have their wits abou them.

[sparky]

Did not read any of the posts before I wrote this-- why ?-- was shocked at what advice you had been given about Waltz--! It is the very FIRST dance we teach to beginners. I would like to know what is their logic in demoting it , to a later position in learning ? - The simplest construction ,with basic rotation in both directions-- what could be more simpler than that ?


I was actually surprised as well, but it seems the "program" they have chosen. This is the first dance school that I have ever had any dealing with... I have nothing to compare it to.... Sad part of it, is I have no friends that dance either. The only people I have talked to about dancing has been in this forum. Here is the process I used to pick the school:

After I made the decision that I was going to finally grab the bull by the horns and take lessons, I did a yellow pages search ( Internet ) for dancing schools in my surrounding area, I decided on a maximum driving time and knocked out all schools outside of that radius, then visited the web pages of the ones in my area (all of them had at least a "business card" type page) and used that to compile a list of email addresses and phone numbers- I sat and thought of a list of questions I'd ask each school- jotted them down and started making calls- keeping a notebook (one page) on each one.
Several schools only had private instruction.... very expensive, and it really doesn't get you used to dancing in front of other people- checked them off the list. One school didn't have group classes ranked by experience ( ie: no beginner, intermediate or advanced ) - the way they worked was, certain dances were taught on specific days- you were there with all levels of experience. I thought that would make for a poor learning environment.. and me stumbling about as a novice right next to an advanced dancer would amplify any feelings of self consciousnes I had. Not good. The place I chose had classes according to experience, and grouped categories of dances- private lessons were also offered. I sat down with my wife and discussed the schools and she agreed with me about the school I thought was best. Class #1 Beginner Ballroom: Foxtrot, Tango and Swing. Very nice instructor, friendly environment, a good mix of ages in the group...

[tangotime]

Excellent approach !-- you probably made the correct choice,but, now that you have exposure to the dance scene, have you made any further comparisons ?

[samina]

Did not read any of the posts before I wrote this-- why ?-- was shocked at what advice you had been given about Waltz--! It is the very FIRST dance we teach to beginners. I would like to know what is their logic in demoting it , to a later position in learning ? - The simplest construction ,with basic rotation in both directions-- what could be more simpler than that ?

but it's not so simple to do well, tho, eh? i know that waltz was the first one i wanted to learn, but my leg strength & balance were such that i axed it for much later. and it's such an athletic dance -- newbs would have a hard time with that. it doesn't get me winded now but i remember the first couple months when i'd work on it with my first instructor... "kill me now" i thought.

it seems to me, from my new perspective, that waltz & foxtrot could be tied for the hardest standard dances in that the waltz has the unison pendulum swing with a beautiful delay that must be felt together, and foxtrot... because of the freakin foot control required.
:)

[sparky]

Excellent approach !-- you probably made the correct choice,but, now that you have exposure to the dance scene, have you made any further comparisons ?

This place changes instructors with each level- we're two weeks from the next level... hopefully, our next instructor will be as nice and as talented as this one. I went expecting to hear "right-foot left-foot" type instructions, but this guy started with explanation of dance position, a few exercises between partners to get the "feel when you partner is shifting his weight to move".... really impressed me, and then he started with some basic steps... he seemed to make a real effort to make the class fun as well.... Put me at ease right off the bat.

[tangotime]

Hi sam, you are very perceptive-- f/t is considered the most difficult of all the dances for many reasons but can give eventually a feeling that no other can ( smooth side ) as far as waltz is concerned, it depends on how the teacher introduces same to a begin. class. Should never exert the feet and legs with undue expectations in the early stages .

Nbee, sounds like you found someone who knows his " onions ".Do tell him how much you enjoy his approach-- we all like a little stroking from time to time !

[samina]

Hi sam, you are very perceptive-- f/t is considered the most difficult of all the dances for many reasons but can give eventually a feeling that no other can ( smooth side )

i can understand that. have been putting off working on f/t until i have some decent basic control in waltz, and in my feet... have been working on my footwork daily.

i think i'm nearing the point where i'll be ready to take a weekly f/t beating in lessons. LOL

[sparky]

Nbee, sounds like you found someone who knows his " onions ".Do tell him how much you enjoy his approach-- we all like a little stroking from time to time !

Better than that- I'll tell his boss.

[tangotime]

way to go !!!:D :D :D

[DennisBeach]

Moving around the dance floor seems to me to be an exercise in executing the dance steps while practicing collision avoidance... Being that my wife spends quite a bit of time dancing backwards, I find myself talking to my wife- giving her directions like "wider step" to move us out of the way ... I can imagine how a dance like the VW can turn into a demolition derby if everyone doesn't have their wits abou them.

Over time as your technique and floor craft improve, you will be able navigate the floor much more effectively. The Waltz will than be very enjoyable even in difficult situations. At first, I felt good to make it through one dance with making contact with other dancers. Now the objective is to see how many months we can go without making contact with other dancers. Our objective now is more to dance well in crowded situations in addition to avoiding contact.

[DennisBeach]

but it's not so simple to do well, tho, eh? i know that waltz was the first one i wanted to learn, but my leg strength & balance were such that i axed it for much later. and it's such an athletic dance -- newbs would have a hard time with that. it doesn't get me winded now but i remember the first couple months when i'd work on it with my first instructor... "kill me now" i thought.

:)

Most people around here do a low energy version of Waltz, with little rise/fall and short steps. We started that way, but after a little while our teachers really pushed us to do full size steps and full rise/fall. Once we caught on to that, the Waltz and Foxtrot became much more enjoyable. I also found it easier to navigate the floor dancing that way. It also makes it easier to lead and follow. Because of other people, we curve straight manuevers, overturn and underturn etc.. Every manuever is a little different each time because of that and we have very little trouble keep in sync effectively.

[sparky]

Our objective now is more to dance well in crowded situations in addition to avoiding contact.


Yes, there seems to be a great deal of work to "get it right". I had my class last night, and I was completely "off my game". Off step, off the beat.... Last week it felt so natural. Off day, I guess.... I'll have to devote a little time each day to go over some steps with my wife.... double our efforts.

[fascination]

sometimes that step backward is just a sign of progress indicating that you are trying to incorporate new skills

[caityrosey]

sometimes that step backward is just a sign of progress indicating that you are trying to incorporate new skills

That's usually the case.

[sparky]

sometimes that step backward is just a sign of progress indicating that you are trying to incorporate new skills


Thanks for the vote of confidence.

[DennisBeach]

Yes, there seems to be a great deal of work to "get it right". I had my class last night, and I was completely "off my game". Off step, off the beat.... Last week it felt so natural. Off day, I guess.... I'll have to devote a little time each day to go over some steps with my wife.... double our efforts.

Off days are normal in just about anything. You are getting a lot of practise in and that is the key to improving. Getting body parts to do things correctly and almost automatically takes a lot of practise, but it does come. You will see the day when todays challenges are a distant memory.

Frustrating thing is we are there every moment and and it is hard to see improvement. It is good to try to look at were you were awhile back and than you will realize you are making progress.

[sparky]

Off days are normal in just about anything.... Frustrating thing is we are there every moment and and it is hard to see improvement. It is good to try to look at were you were awhile back and than you will realize you are making progress.

I'm my own worst critic.... it's a good thing and a bad thing at the same time.
Not that long ago I couldn't dance a single step.... Now I know the basic steps of three dances :shock:. So I fumble a bit here and there.... I'm sure I'll fumble less and less as time goes on.

[fascination]

Thanks for the vote of confidence.
you are welcome (BTDT) been there done that

[Tamarad64]

I'm new to ballroom too Sparky. Just finished my 8 week social ballroom class. Something I should have done 20 years ago also! I absolutely love it! My favorite is the waltz..which was included in the social class. I started a waltz class tonight. I'm starting to learn technique now. Can't wait till my next class.

[sparky]

I'm new to ballroom too Sparky. Just finished my 8 week social ballroom class. Something I should have done 20 years ago also! I absolutely love it! My favorite is the waltz..which was included in the social class. I started a waltz class tonight. I'm starting to learn technique now. Can't wait till my next class.

Funny.. thinking back, I can't think of what kept me from getting lessons much earlier.... I've always looked at other people who could dance with a certain envy, but never thought I could do it myself.
I think Ballroom Dancing should be taught in High School as part of the Phys-Ed programs. Would be great for the winter months, it would give the kids a little "culture", while still being a physical activity, and encourage POLITE interaction between the sexes in the early teenage years ( instead of the long distance whistling, drooling and leering ). That last point is somewhat close to my heart, being the father of a teenage daughter.
There was such a stigma against dancing when I was a teenager. We used to have different activities we could "sign up" for, that rotated every few weeks. In the mid to late 70's Disco dancing was all the craze, so they offered a "do the Hustle" class.... Myself and two of my friends saw that every girl in the class ran to that table to sign up.... we followed. Turns out the Hustle was a "line dance"... But the ratio of girls to guys was about 7 to 1... so we did get a lot of female attention.... unfortunately, we also got a lot of male attention as well... all ridicule.

[Tamarad64]

I'm trying to get my teenage daughter to take lessons but she's not biting yet. I hated PE but would have loved to take ballroom. I wish my bf would dance...until then I'll just have to dance with whoever will dance with me.

[sparky]

I'm trying to get my teenage daughter to take lessons but she's not biting yet. I hated PE but would have loved to take ballroom. I wish my bf would dance...until then I'll just have to dance with whoever will dance with me.

Funny story.... when we first decided we were going to take classes- we decided to take a drive over during the day on a weekend to see where the place was, and get a good estimate of how long it takes to get there... our daughter is in the back seat "where are we going?". We said "Dancing school". Then she went into a tirade. "I'm not going" ... "you can't make me" ... etc, etc, etc.... It was funny, really. We kept letting her believe it was for HER until we pulled in the parking lot.... Then we told her it was for US... the look on her face was priceless.

Sit down with your BF and tell him what it would mean to you - perhaps we'd go with you for just one or two classes.

[DennisBeach]

Funny.. thinking back, I can't think of what kept me from getting lessons much earlier.... I've always looked at other people who could dance with a certain envy, but never thought I could do it myself.
I think Ballroom Dancing should be taught in High School as part of the Phys-Ed programs. Would be great for the winter months, it would give the kids a little "culture", while still being a physical activity, and encourage POLITE interaction between the sexes in the early teenage years ( instead of the long distance whistling, drooling and leering ). That last point is somewhat close to my heart, being the father of a teenage daughter.
There was such a stigma against dancing when I was a teenager. We used to have different activities we could "sign up" for, that rotated every few weeks. In the mid to late 70's Disco dancing was all the craze, so they offered a "do the Hustle" class.... Myself and two of my friends saw that every girl in the class ran to that table to sign up.... we followed. Turns out the Hustle was a "line dance"... But the ratio of girls to guys was about 7 to 1... so we did get a lot of female attention.... unfortunately, we also got a lot of male attention as well... all ridicule.

One of the home school associations in the area, does ballroom dancing for Physical education. They do social dancing, performances and competitions. The students seem to really enjoy it.

[Zhena]

There seems to be a few variations... what is the "common Waltz" ?
we really like the "turning one" we see all the time ( not just the simple box step ).
I'm coming in late here - I don't follow all the threads.

I have an additional perspective on the "common waltz" question. The waltz I learned in folk dancing is a clockwise turning dance (two measures per 360 degree turn) that moves counterclockwise around the floor. If you want to vary it, and you're really talented, you can turn counterclockwise ("reverse"), which can be REALLY challenging on a small floor. I have since seen it labeled as "rotary waltz" at vintage dance events. This is NOT slow ballroom waltz. DH and I have touched the surface of Viennese, and it's not the same either. We've learned not to do rotary at ballroom events, but we've added some of the compatible ballroom patterns to rotary at other events.

[Another Elizabeth]

DH and I have touched the surface of Viennese, and it's not the same either.
It sounds like Viennese - why do you say it's not the same?

[Zhena]

It sounds like Viennese - why do you say it's not the same?
Because when I try to dance with my ballroom instructor we get our feet tangled. I think one of the steps crosses in front rather than behind or something like that. I haven't explored it further because DH and I are concentrating on more basic ballroom at the moment (read next year or two), so I just accept the difference and don't try to mix the two. I can do rotary just fine with lots of partners, but I can't yet do basic turning ballroom Viennese even with my instructor -- very, very frustrating.

[Laura]

I've got to say I have been living and dancing in the the SF Bay Area for 9 1/2 years and have no idea what you are talking about, unless you mean some kind of old-time vintage ballroom dance like they do at the Gaskills Ball? I have some friends that go to those dances and they aren't quite the same as modern ballroom (a.k.a. Standard) or American Style.

Viennese Waltz definitely crosses in front.

[Anna]

There is one grad student around here who knows rotary waltz (well, in addition to the people he teaches), it looks a little bit like viennese but with a different character (less, well...viennese) and there seem to be a bunch more steps than in international viennese. I don't know how the basic steps compare though.

[Laura]

For a while there was a group at Stanford University that did folk dancing and also old-school (i.e., pre-dancesport, probably pre-advent-of-"Modern") ballroom dancing. I think they called themselves the "Stanford International Dancers." I wonder if they are still around? Maybe they know/do something like this. I'm always curious to find out more about the history/development/evolution of ballroom dancing. It didn't just spring into being fully-formed as "dancesport" after all!

[Anna]

He was in fact an undergraduate at Stanford, maybe 2 years ago. I think that's where he learned rotary waltz (along with a bunch of other unusual ones, like cross-step (?) waltz and others I don't remember). So I'd guess there's a good chance it's still around.

[Zhena]

Google "Friday Night Waltz". It alternates between Palo Alto and Alameda. The dominant age range is 20-30ish. There is some crossover between FNW people and both Gaskills and the Stanford dancers. I've only been to two FNW events, because Friday night we usually go to our studio party. They do rotary waltz, cross-step waltz, polkas, schottishes, and miscellaneous other dances, but about every other dance is some sort of waltz. I got asked to dance by a few men, a couple of whom were rather good. After only one dance, one partner asked me if I was a teacher. I had no idea who he was or why he wanted to know, so I checked with my friend who brought me, and she said he is the main organizer and was always looking for more teachers. It was quite a boost for my ego, considering their roster of teachers includes Richard Powers and Joan Walton!

[Terpsichorean Clod]

I think tango is quite a bit harder than waltz...
Why is that? I've been having an absolutely, positively, horrible time with tango for as long as I can remember, and it would be nice to have another explanation than that I just plain suck. :oops:

[Terpsichorean Clod]

...We've learned not to do rotary at ballroom events, but we've added some of the compatible ballroom patterns to rotary at other events.
Is doing rotary to Viennese music at ballroom socials generally frowned upon? I've considered doing that a number of times since the basic rotary step seems much more accessible to newbies than VW. :confused:

[waltzgirl]

Why is that? I've been having an absolutely, positively, horrible time with tango for as long as I can remember, and it would be nice to have another explanation than that I just plain suck. :oops:

Actually, once you get far enough into them, they are both equally impossible! :)

But starting out, I think the regular rhythm of waltz, with one step per beat, is a big help. Much easier to move to, to coordinate movement with another person to. And the beginning patterns are so much simpler.

With tango, you've got different patterns with different arrangements of slows and quicks, a different dance hold, cbm, etc. IME, you have to get kinda good with all those things before tango starts feeling like anything.

[DennisBeach]

Actually, once you get far enough into them, they are both equally impossible! :)

But starting out, I think the regular rhythm of waltz, with one step per beat, is a big help. Much easier to move to, to coordinate movement with another person to. And the beginning patterns are so much simpler.

With tango, you've got different patterns with different arrangements of slows and quicks, a different dance hold, cbm, etc. IME, you have to get kinda good with all those things before tango starts feeling like anything.

One of our teacher really improved our Tango by teaching us the slows were two quicks. Move foot forward or back and start to place weight on it was one quick, bring other foot up to leading foot and doing a very short hesitation was the second quick. That really helped us, before our slows were always to fast. Since than I have seen videos on ballroom tange and Argentine Tango that showed the same technique.

In most dances there has been one piece of advice, that seemed to make a major difference with us.

[tangotime]

Good q, the answer is far more difficult to comprehend thru the written word. Simply put, tango is not a " Swing " dance. that is to say, it does not have the same dynamic as w-f/t- q.s. for e.g.. It is more closely aligned to a "walking movement " and the hold is different .
Ask your current teacher to explain the differences visually. If he/she is unable, suggest you find another teacher !!

p.s. -- the worlds most famous coach on tango ( scrivener ) said that Tango was the EASIEST dance to learn. Guess it comes down to who is teaching same .

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Thank you for your posts, waltzgirl, DennisBeach, and tangotime!

I have had difficulty breaking down basic American 8-count/1-measure patterns into the component slows and quicks.

I will try thinking of slows in two parts. I have had concerns about my slows being too fast.

Ultimately, I think it comes down to my lack of understanding of movement in tango - that absence of flight, which I'm just starting to get a feel for in waltz and foxtrot.

I shouldn't hijack this thread any further so I'm going to find another thread in which to post my problem.