Who's Style Do You Admire?

[SDsalsaguy]

But first, a message from our sponsor: Congratulations Phil Owl, as our lucky reader of the day, you are receiving your very own version of today’s thread, “Hooooooo’s Style Do You Admire!” And make sure to tune in to the same dance-forums channel for more chances to win such glorious prizes! And now, back to our regularly scheduled posting…

Who’s style of salsa do you like, and why? Do you like smooth, or flashy, or fast, or slow, or slotted, or rotational, "on1", "on2", old school mambo, new NY2, tricks, no tricks, LA, NY, PR, Ruera, Columbian, arm patterns, footwork? Do you have different preferences as far as who’s style you like in shows but not on the floor, or vice versa? Or are there people whose (hooooooo’s -- for today’s lucky winner!) ability and talent you certainly respect, but you just don’t like the style they dance? Enquiring minds want to know!

[salsarhythms]

I don't know, but when I listen to a song by someone like "El Canario" and you hear that tumbao, and the clave just going ta-ta ta-ta-ta...

it just "feels" right (to me anyway) to dance "on 2"!

Now that's just my preference, but realize that I said it "feels right". That's the key here. It has to "feel right" to YOU and only you. Not your instructor, not some "guru", not anyone but to you alone.

[Enthusiast]

Interesting thing about the clave.

The rhythm involves a triplet:

1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 1
C.....C....C.....1

In the first measure of the clave the beat actually falls between the 2 and the 3 beat and between the 3 and the 4 beat. The first note of the clave is the only one that actually falls on one of the beats (in the first measure). For this reason, I think the ONE beat feels best for me. The second measure does follow the 4 beats of music.

...But the second measure of the Clave actually better supports a 2 beat...

[salsarhythms]

The thing with the clave that really amazes me, is how such a simple looking device can lead such complex patterns.

Everything from the 2/3 clave to the 3/2 clave.

In the 2/3 clave the first two notes of the clave are on beats 2 and 3.

The remaining notes are played in beats 5, between beats 6&7 and then on beat 8.

In reverse, your typical 3/2 clave is played with the first note on beat 1, the between beats 2&3, then on beat 4. The last two notes are played on beats 6 and 7...

I find that the On 2 style flows very smoothly with this arrangement. The other reason for me is the Tumbao beat, which is basically a conga slap causing a tum-tum kind of sound. These mark beats 4 & 4 1/2 and beats 8 & 8 1/2. Again, these beats that are marked, to me, make it flow nicely with On 2...

Of course, that is my personal preference...for a more in-depth look at what On 2 is all about check out http://www.salsanewyork.com

There's a ton of great information there.

[SDsalsaguy]

Even though the clave remains constant, the remainder of musical arrangement and presentation differs...so, from my perspective, it really depends what song you're listening to. I find that most newer, contemporary arrangements feel (again, "feel") like they break on 1 to me. Its only when I listen to the old-school recordings that I feel like the 2 makes sense musically. I actually had an interesting discussion about this with Tony Meredith a while back, especially as regards ballroom mambo...and how half the time the music selection (DJs' responsibilities I'd guess) is clearly on 1, yet all of these dancers are forcing a 2. Corky Ballas told me that this was part of the challenge, but I can’t help but think/ask, what ever happened to dancing to the music?

[salsarhythms]

I guess that's why I prefer the "old-schoo" salseros to the more "DLG-like" type salsa music.

The arrangements of the music absolutely differ from song to song as there is a lot of room for artistic expression on the part of the song writers and composers. So yes I agree 100% with you. I think the issue once again remains the same, it has to feel right to you.

From my experience On 2 just feels good, I like the timing and the coordination that are involved in it...what do you think?

[SDsalsaguy]

From my experience On 2 just feels good, I like the timing and the coordination that are involved in it...what do you think?

My personal preference is On1. But, again, I think that is based on a number of factors. (1) That's what I learned and that's what I've been dancing, socially, for 4 years.
(2) That's the type of music that I hear played at the venues where I go dancing, so it just feels right/fits better.
(3) I've never really learned the NY2, althought I do like the look of it very much.

As a question, if 2 feels better to you, do you dance "old"2 (I think I've also heard it called power 2), or NY2?
2,3,4 or 1,2,3?

[salsarhythms]

Definaltely this:

1,2,3 and 5,6,7...

[SDsalsaguy]

Definaltely this:

1,2,3 and 5,6,7...

I watched a lesson that Eddie Torres was teaching in this style the last time I was in NY. One thing that I really liked about it was that the turn patterns, although "complicated" (a relative term, I know), were ones that people of all ages and physical abilities could do.

Some day, when time and oportunity permit, its definitely a style I’d like to explore…

[salsarhythms]

Well I must tell you, you picked the right person to observe...

Eddie is simply AMAZING! If you're able to take his classes, JUST DO IT.

I don't care if you've never danced on 2, or even if you've never danced salsa before, Eddie will have something for you, and he's the guy you want to learn from...

[SDsalsaguy]

Unfortunately I'm in NY very rarely but, the last time I was, Tony Meredith (who knows what a salsaholic I am) told me that Eddie was teaching down at his (Tony's) studio the next night, so I went over to take a look... and liked it! (Just can't do more then basic, cross body, and underarm turn yet!)

[Pass It On]

I've that because the pause falls on a different spot in the dance (than on1 salsa), it really leads to major differences in style, especially in turns. For, example you see a lot of turns chage direction when the lady is facing away from the man.

Just like SDsalsaguy, I know some of the basic moves, but I haven't deeply explored New York style> There is a small group of dancers in Atlanta that dance NY style, but the style is still pretty unknown here.

[salsarhythms]

Right the pause comes in on beats 4 and 8, and the break happens on 2 and 6. It is different, but when you see someone who has proficiency, to me, it looks, feels, and seems right...

But seriously, if you get out to NY you must see Eddie...

[franceon2]

Hello,

I would totally agree with you. I learned on 1 but when I became exposed to on2 (eddie torres NY2)there was no turning back. There are many people who dance on2 who use to dance on1 but you do not hear of anyone who use to dance on2 but now prefers on1. Just something to think about.
KEEP DANCING

[d nice]

I love old school mambo. I dance very little latin, but what I've been exposed to has actually been pretty extensive for someone who does not "do" the dance. Old school mambo to me just seems the most lively, the most rhythmically complex, and the entrancing.

What do I know though, I'm just a swing dancer. 8)

[Vince A]

What do I know though, I'm just a swing dancer.

Ditto, ditto, ditto . . . I've only got 3 months of Salsa under my belt, but I learn quickly. I simply adjust my cha cha until the Salsa feels natural. I know there are the differences. Learning those differences has improved my cha!
Right the pause comes in on beats 4 and 8, and the break happens on 2 and 6. It is different, but when you see someone who has proficiency, to me, it looks, feels, and seems right...

This IS the way that I'm being taught, and it doesn't contradict with the break on 2 in my cha.
There are many people who dance on2 who use to dance on1 but you do not hear of anyone who use to dance on2 but now prefers on1.

I brought this up at a recent lesson, and the instructor says that "many are switching to the break on 2." He didn't clarify who "the many" was, and I didn't ask. I also danced with a lady who can do the count on both. I asked her to think 1, but I broke on 2, she had no problems with it. I, on the other hand, have a very fdifficult time breaking on 1, especially with the pauses on beats 4 and 8. It just doesn't make sense musically, especially if you play music, and I do!

[salsarhythms]

It's not so much that people are "switching" I think
it has more to do with the fact that On 2 is becoming
more popular.

Personally, the On 1/On 2 thing is just getting a bit
out of hand in all of salsa dancing...

I mean let's face it, dancing is an expression and it's
a personal thing...for me On 2 feels right, for someone
else though, that may not be the case...

I don't think it's an issue to dance either way, the way
I see it though, it is an issue when you can't get to
dance at a club just because of the style you dance
to.

That to me is crazy!!

[msc]

Not sure the name of the sttyle, but my favorite performers are Salomon and Sandra, hands down.

[SDsalsaguy]

I would totally agree with you. I learned on 1 but when I became exposed to on2 (eddie torres NY2)there was no turning back. There are many people who dance on2 who use to dance on1 but you do not hear of anyone who use to dance on2 but now prefers on1. Just something to think about.
Just keep in mind that there are people who are proficient at on2 but still prefer on1....from local/regional people up to, say, Josie Neglia.

[SDsalsaguy]

Not sure the name of the sttyle, but my favorite performers are Salomon and Sandra, hands down.
Definately on1 and their style is fairly unique and has a lot of ballroom training thrown in. As an aside, as much as "ballroom" is not used as a compliment for most newer salseros/salseras, many of the "top" dancers/performers have sought out some ballroom background/training along the way.

[SDsalsaguy]

Personally, the On 1/On 2 thing is just getting a bit
out of hand in all of salsa dancing...

I mean let's face it, dancing is an expression and it's
a personal thing...for me On 2 feels right, for someone
else though, that may not be the case...


Thank you, thank you, thank you! As much as I hate to stereotype, I find too many on2 dancers to be downright hostile regarding this issue (I am sure the same might be said of some on1 dancers, I just haven't experienced it). For G-d's sake people, its dancing! And regardles of what respective detractors want to say, both styles are to the music...its not like someone's hearing the same piece and then saying 'hmmm, feels like a foxtrot to me!'

[franceon2]

Hello, SD I forgot that in the U.S. the on2 on1 thing is VERY VERY sensitive and just the mention of one or the other upsets people. I have many friends who love the 1 many who love the 2. When we talk about it in my country no one gets bent out of shape(I think this is the correct saying) because you have an opinion one way or the other. I did not know just agreeing with someone and/or stateing an opinon is considered "hostile" but maybe it is a U.S. cultural thing that I have to learn to understand.

I have to say my favorite performers are Juan Matos and Frankie Martinez. Great performers, great social dancers. Hope that was not hostile.

KEEP DANCING

[SDsalsaguy]

Hiya franceon2....no, not hostile at all (and yes, you got the expression right as well). And while the on1 vs. on2 thing can be a sensitive issue here, I was more coming from the "there is never only one 'right' way to dance" frame of reference.

Take this forum's moderator for example--he lives in NY, has trained with Eddie Torres (right salsarhythms?), and definately prefers on2--but recognizes that's what's most important is that you feel "it" (the music/dance). This is where I was coming from...that I'd rather see someone dance what they feel from the music then on1 or on2 if that's not what it "says" to them. Does that make sense?

[youngsta]

I learned on1 first and starting dancing on2 about 5 months ago. I love them both equally! I will say on2 fits my personal dancing style more.

As far as who I like to watch dancing I'd have to say Bernard Martinez and his wife (Sonya I think). Smooth, confident, New York mambo. I got to take one of his workshops and just loved it.

[salsarhythms]

Hey SD, I actually live in CA now, but yes I grew up
in New York and to be honest, On 2 just feels better for
me...and yes I do feel that way, it doesn't matter...

I still don't understand what the big deal is...

But of course, it is a sensitive issue =)

[borikensalsero]

First let me get out my fav dancer. Nydia Ocasio hands down...

Love this little opinion based debate going on here. Every since I started dancing salsa I always broke on2. I didn't know what I was doing but it just felt right to make any sudden moves, with old school salsa, on the 2. I didn't even know I was following the congas but everything I did mirrored the congas. Then one day I learnt that I was mostly dancing on2. I used to get off beat a whole bunch... Now I must say that I prefer on2 simply because that is what I became to know most and got more aquainted with, plus NY City is full of on2 dancers. On1 dancers aren't thought of as "good" dancers by their snobbly on2 fellows. I guess they figure since I can't dance with that person they aren't good dancers... :shock:

[youngsta]

Funny, they'll find most of us dance both now. It's about being available to dance with as many people as possible.

[salsachinita]

Who’s style of salsa do you like, and why? Do you like smooth, or flashy, or fast, or slow, or slotted, or rotational, "on1", "on2", old school mambo, new NY2, tricks, no tricks, LA, NY, PR, Rueda, Columbian, arm patterns, footwork? Do you have different preferences as far as who’s style you like in shows but not on the floor, or vice versa? Or are there people whose ability and talent you certainly respect, but you just don’t like the style they dance? Enquiring minds want to know!

Ok, I don't mean to start trouble or anything, but this might be the earliest example of enquiring minds :lol: :lol: :lol: !!

I've also noticed that hardly anyone had directly answered SD's original question :wink: . So how about it....? Who's style do you admire?

*Please leave out all the potential on1 vs. on2 type debate :wink: *

[youngsta]

James Cobo of the Cobo Brothers. Smooth and fluid, intricate yet simple...the dude can dance.

[Sagitta]

I learned on1 first and starting dancing on2 about 5 months ago. I love them both equally! I will say on2 fits my personal dancing style more.

I couldn't agree more. I knew I forgot that I had something to work on.

Don't know any famous people, but yesterday night when charanags came on, salsa music with flute right?, some magical playing was going on. I really admired this instructor from Rochester. Smooth, playful, sexy...

[squirrel]

I like Susana Montero and Leon Rose
And I dance on1 (and wanna learn on2)

[Sabor]

i admire any who dance from the heart.. and i can see the music play im their motion and make their partner feel beautiful ..

truelly a wonderful thing to behold such happinness..

other than that i have an appreciation for all styles of salsa and timing .. i take what i like from each and make a new mix with it depending on how i feel, the music and who i dance with.. its all rigged towards the same goal.. how to make the best out of ... so for example.. i could be on 1 timing.. body styling afro-cuban.. yet with smooth grip doing some LA turns/tricks here and there.. shine .. play with free style.. get back into a quick reuda (2-3 moves) with another couple on the floor.. switch back to strict LA style etc.. etc.. the mix changes at a rate according to circumstance aiming to maximize pleasure

[salsachinita]

I guess the message here is loud & clear: the ultimate dancer is the versatile one, right :wink: ?

So the more variety we are exposed/open to, the better off we would be, right :wink: ?

[Sabor]

umm no.. it was left i tink..

http://www.langkawi.dk/z032.gif

[salsachinita]

:nope: Ok, papi.......left it is 8) !

[aragonh]

Well, I like a couple of styles/instructors:

First of, Frankie Martinez is the man. That is one person who uses his whole body in dancing.

Next is Bernard Martinez. His is mostly for patterns though. His patterns are smooth and easy to do. You can lead a beginner into his patterns.

The next one is Super Mario. His stuff is also easy to follow. The guy is also cool.

Then there is Jayson Molina. He has some advance moves which would be great to pull off if I remember half the stuff!

And finally there is Eddie Torres. I'll be honest, when I took a class of his in '03 congress, I thought he was overrated (The one who is overated is Matos). To me, he didnt teach anything great (and I didnt see him dance). However, I took another class this year and I really enjoyed it. He made the class entertaining and I liked it alot. His stuff was also good. If I lived in NYC, i would take classes from him (and Frankie).

[danceguy]

James Cobo of the Cobo Brothers. Smooth and fluid, intricate yet simple...the dude can dance

That's the guy from the video we were talking about on the Salsa Forums right (the song is called Atrevida)? I think he's amazing too...I got so much out of watching that clip I had my teacher watch it so we could work on a few of the techniques he does. I didn't notice at first how many times he kisses his beautiful dance partner, that man is smooooooooth! 8)

Intricate yet simple...that's the way it should be. :wink:

SG

[salsachinita]

Due to technical difficulties I am not able to watch most of the videos online :cry: ..........

[youngsta]

Yeah that's the dude SG. Everytime I watch that video I'm like :shock: April is damn sexy in it too! :D

[KiwiMambo]

I saw a lot of good dancers at the LA Congress, esp. those darn New Yorkers :).

I saw a lot of the big names, but the two that stood out even above them were Bernard Martinez (and his wife Sonyo) and Milton Cobo. Smooth, light, small, tight and flowing effortlessly from move to move all while dancing to the music.
None of that twisted arm knot, spin the girl 20 times stuff. Who needs that when you can dance to the music...

BTW, Bernard and Sonyo Martinez now live in Huntington Beach, California. I commute 1.5 hours each way for his classes every week and it is totally worth it. First rate instructor and super nice people.