Ask the CEO of the World Salsa Federation

[IsaacAltman]

In order to help the Salsa community understand the WSF, I would like to reach out and answer some of the concerns and questions you might have about the WSF. I would like to encourage some feedback in order to improve understanding about the WSF and to improve relationships with those who may not agree with the WSF concepts.

[brujo]

Who are you? What are your qualifications? Who is involved in the WSF? What is the goal of the WSF? What makes the WSF qualified to represent the entire salsa world? How do you ensure input from all salsa nations? Please elaborate on your idea for the salsa curriculum and post a draft if such exists.

[IsaacAltman]

Whoa... Lots of questions. I am the 2000 I.D.O. World Salsa Champion. The WSF is a corp. that was formed in order to take Salsa in new areas (Junior Olympics) and to be able to serve professionals with certification. It has since expanded in its scope. A more detailed description is here:

AIMS AND OBJECTS FOR THE WSF ARE:To promote, encourage, publicize and facilitate the art of Salsa dancing including leisure and competitive style, by giving demonstrations, holding competitions and exhibitions, by organizing or sponsoring lectures, lessons and examinations, awarding certificates, prizes and scholarships and doing all such matters and things as will conduce to raising or improving the standard of Salsa dancing, including leisure and competitive styles, and by promoting uniformity of instruction in the basic and advanced steps of Salsa through a uniform Bronze, Silver, and Gold Syllabus. To encourage, foster and increase public interest in the art of Salsa dancing. To formulate and secure international recognition and adoption of official international rules and Syllabus of Competitive Salsa dancing, and to encourage the promotion and proper conduct of competition, and the recognition of established championships. To do all such things as are likely to promote and improve the standard of Salsa dancing. To encourage the general public to obtain instruction only from qualified teachers, and to do all such things as are likely to promote and improve the standard of conduct to raising or maintaining the professional status and ethical standards of all persons engaged or seeking to be engaged in the teaching of Salsa dancing. To grant permission for approved National WSF member organizations to organize, world, continental and area/regional continental championships in Salsa that are controlled by the WSF, and such other titles as may from time to time be determined by the WSF. To formulate rules to govern such championships and other titles in accordance with the rules of the WSF and/or other rules recognized by the WSF, which are not incompatible with these objects, and which shall include the governance of the conduct of member organizations and persons or bodies recognized by and/or is registered with the WSF. To promote, facilitate and encourage exchanges of information on all matters pertaining to Salsa dancing. To formulate promulgate and oversee a uniform method of judging and marking in all Salsa competitions and championships throughout the world. To acquire the copyrights and other rights, licenses and privileges of any sort likely to be conducive to the objects of the WSF and to encourage, assist and employ persons to write, compose or invent dance steps, music, musical arrangements and scripts and remunerate such person or persons, and to print, publish or cause to be printed or published, books, pamphlets, newspapers, journals, circularize, instructional handbooks and/or video tapes, dances steps, dance arrangements, music and musical scores and arrangements and literature of any kind likely to further the objects of the WSF and its members; and to sell, distribute and deal with any matter so printed or recorded as the WSF may think fit and to grant licenses or rights in respect of any property of the WSF and to enter into agreements with persons, firms or societies in connection with the same. To secure the recognition of competitions and other events that are recognized by the WSF.

[Danish Guy]

There can’t be only one salsa. Salsa is a lot of different things & styles. It sure can be frustrating from a beginners view, but it is what intrigues us and keeps us hooked on salsa.

This sounds to me like dancing Salsa in handcuffs, with the music watered down. :cry: :cry: :cry:

Then there’s the financial part. I can’t see through the scheme, but it smells like big money to me. :snake:

Sorry, but I like salsa as it is. An evolving wild beast, and a lot of fun riding on.

But I’ll check out the wsf site, when it get some info. There might be something useful, even though I don’t like the concept. :wink:

[brujo]

Thanks for your answer Isaac, I think often we just let our prejudices get in the way before we try to understand what you're trying to do.

How would the goals of the WSF be different than the existing Latin Ballroom dances that are out there. Would it not be easier to try to add Mambo or Casino or on1 Salsa to the Latin Ballroom Curricula? Why this whole new approach?

Many of us understand salsa as a music/dance culture. How do you plan to ensure that each of the dances that go under the salsa umbrella get properly represented ( Casino, NY style, LA style, Cumbia )? How about preservation of the sources of salsa( merengue, bachata, guaguanco, son, rumba, joropo, etc )?

What kind of feedback have you received from all the salsa instructors and dancers contacted by the WSF. It seems to me that this is more of a regional organization as of now, what are your expansion plans?

[IsaacAltman]

Brujo, you bring up some of the best questions I have been approached by. I am trying to get the Ballroom world to accept Salsa in replacement of the ballroom mambo that has been around for so long. Not an easy task as they are very resistant to anything they don't control or understand. The WSF did not want to have any political ties on any level, thus the new approach. Salsa is music, dance, culture and more. There are many different styles and the WSF will be integrating these styles in many of its approved variations. Styles change as you well know. The WSF wants to be in the forefront of this evolution as well as keeping the roots. The WSF has members all over the world as well as certified teachers. We are growing. We are by no means regional. We do have some opposition but that is to be expected. Change is hard for some. I hope through this and other forums and media the WSF will be better understood and that instructors, organizers and club dancers will see that we are not a threat but an asset.

[salsarhythms]

Great topic, please let's keep it up...

Isaac, I'm interested in one question that brujo brought up
and it was regarding the feedback of other instructors and
dancers that are already a part of the WSF...can you elaborate
on that point...

[IsaacAltman]

The instructors and dancers who are already members of the WSF are extremely pleased. They get good customer support and believe what the WSF is doing. It has also helped to increase their incomes. The WSF is a member driven organization and try to help each other out continuously in many different ways.

[looyenyeo]

Dear Isaac,

It sounds to me as if your organisational approach bears some similarity to that established by the United Kingdom Alliance (UKA) based in Blackpool, England. They commissioned one of their members, a Mr. Paul Harris, to establish a syllabus, medal structure, and instructor certification programme circa 1996.

By chance, have you had contact with the UKA?

Regards,
Loo

[IsaacAltman]

No I haven't Loo but I would like to. Got a website or email address?

[looyenyeo]

Dear Isaac,

The website for the UKA is:

united kingdom alliance

Regards,
Loo

[pygmalion]

That's a good link, Looyenyeo. Thanks. United Kingdom Alliance's mission is to support teachers of dance and similar arts in developing their business? How does that work? And do you have some sort of affilation or reciprocal relationship with other dance governiong bodies, such as ISTD?

[IsaacAltman]

Ok Loo, now I remember who they are. I haven't had contact with them for almost 2 years. The WSF does not have an affiliation with the ISTD.

[looyenyeo]

Dear Pygmalion,

As I recall, members of the UKA teach according to syllabi, have a medal examination system like most other organisations, can confer qualifications to individuals to become instructors. The lessons and medal system form an important part of a UKA-affiliated studio's business. Hence my query to Isaac whom I thought was re-inventing the wheel, although it appears not.

My apologies Isaac.

The UKA and IDTA may have working agreements, but I'm not certain. I have no information about any links with the ISTD, but I'm sure a little rooting around will bring it to light.

No, I'm not affiliated to either of them. I think our philosophies on education are a little too different.

Regards,
Loo

[Boogaloo]

Hey Isaac,

The UKA has a list of affiliated teachers that subscribe to its directory.
I went to your website, however, and I did not see a similar directory listing members. Do you have plans to establish this? How will anyone know if so-and-so is WSF certified if you do not publish a list? Otherwise, any Joe Schmoe can claim WSF certification, right? This would be a way to help the instructors get their money's worth as WSF members and would put their name out there. I don't see the names of any instructors, other than those in your "directory" page, but that refers only to the WSF Salsa Directors and the Executive Committee. Please specify on your website where your associates may be found all over the world--all the names and cities where the chapters are located. This information would be quite useful.

Boogaloo Dude

[IsaacAltman]

Thanks Boogaloo. That is a good suggestion.

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

There can’t be only one salsa. Salsa is a lot of different things & styles. It sure can be frustrating from a beginners view, but it is what intrigues us and keeps us hooked on salsa.

This sounds to me like dancing Salsa in handcuffs, with the music watered down. :cry: :cry: :cry:

Sorry, but I like salsa as it is. An evolving wild beast, and a lot of fun riding on.



I agree with Danish Guy´s point of view. Salsa is a street dance! Is the WSF going to make it "formal" with tons of strict rules, make people dance in certain ways, restrict their natural and personal style if it doesn´t comply to the organization´s pre-defined standards? Is the WSF is going to put "casual jean" salseros into "suits". Is it going to squeeze the juice out of the salsa orange? :?

I may be wrong, but I think this is exactly what is going to happen. Salsa is not a ballroom dance, it is a street dance - big difference! I´m very pessimistic on this. I like salsa the way it is! Don´t ruin it, please. :cry:

[IsaacAltman]

Yes, indeed, Salsa is a street dance. So is Cha Cha Cha, Samba, Tango, Rumba, Merengue, etc, etc. Point being, they all are street dances that have been standardized for learning and competition. Non of this standardization has stopped them from continuing being a street dance. Basketball is a street sport yet the NBA with all its rules did not squeeze the orange out of street basketball.

[borikensalsero]

Yes, indeed, Salsa is a street dance. So is Cha Cha Cha, Samba, Tango, Rumba, Merengue, etc, etc. Point being, they all are street dances that have been standardized for learning and competition. Non of this standardization has stopped them from continuing being a street dance. Basketball is a street sport yet the NBA with all its rules did not squeeze the orange out of street basketball.

Indeed Isaac,
So what is the main objective here? To place down rules to which ballroom-like competitions are subjected? I have no problem with that, No, problem because I don’t know a thing about ballroom.

While the NBA has their rules, they are more of guidelines to follow to stay within the basics of how the game is played. They are still pretty the same from day one. They don't ask every player to run, shoot, jump, pass, express their temperament the same, every team to play the same plays, every coach to teach the same offense/defense, and players subject to how a basket should be worth more because of degree of difficulty. Their rules are the basic rules, just like salsa already has them. The rest should be up to each individual player, how they choose to play the game given basic rules. Just like salsa, here is the basic, how you spin, when the basic is taken, and how to lead. The last thing we need is the NBA telling its players they must all shoot underhand because David Stern said it would be best, they must all dribble looking at who the are passing the ball to so everyone see the connection of the 2 players. Then again, the NBA calls itself a business; they are there to make money, yet leave all the details and intricacies of the playing the game to the players, not the rules.

There is a difference between coming-across as controlling rather than enabling a person to flourish as they would with in a system that has no biased as to how a person looks, moves, degree of difficulty in patterns, nor how good the people within that system are. Do you think Michael Jordan would have been as he was if the coach told him when to pass, how to pass, who to pass to, when to shoot, how to shoot, how to run, body position when running, and how pretty a play must look to be deemed better? Nope, he only gave him the understanding of the game and allowed him to manifest himself within those rules. Unlike what your systems seems to come across. Salsa already has its rules in the form of a basic, when they are taken, when to do a x-body, etc. Within those rules everything else is allowed. So, even if the NBA doesn’t do it, why must salsa? Or, Am I totally confusing your goal? Why must there be a federation who deems who is good, and how good, what they must teach and how, controlled by the ideas of one person. This is just my opinion but I have seen communism fail in country after country, if it doesn’t work for countries, who says that it will work in Salsa?

The beauty of salsa is that it can be manifested in uniform ways within its basic rules. Limiting the art form of salsa dancing will turn classic tunes to what we hear today in the form of pop/tropical salsa. An art form with a lot to be desired.

[IsaacAltman]

Salsa, WSF, and Communism? Thats a bit of a stretch. :roll: The WSF will not change the way you dance. It provided a standardization for the sport. All sports have standardization however there is also room for individuality. So does the WSF. We have certification on both one and two, we have open divisions where you can do any style, etc. etc. The WSF is saying who is a good dancer and who is not. That is not its purpose.

[IsaacAltman]

Sorry for the typo. The WSF is NOT saying who is a good dancer and who is a bad dancer. By the way, 2 of the largest Salsa promoters in the world now are trying to copy the WSF with certification, sanctioning of events, a Salsa University and more. What do you think of that? The WSF's biggest critics at one time are imitating the WSF. :lol:

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

Hi Isaac,

I took ballroom classes last year for several months. Theses dances are so standardized, you feel somewhat limited and feel you must do the exact same thing as everyone else. You should have the correct posture; your feet have to be placed in a certain way, your arms, your hands, bla, bla, bla. On the one hand, this is good because it prevents dancers from getting “sloppy”. On the other hand, it prevents your creative juices from flowing. Anyway, I’m not here to criticize ballroom or standardized dances. I considered my ballroom classes to be a good experience and am thinking of taking some classes again next year.

I don’t agree with you regarding the need for “standardization” for competition purposes. Each year Puerto Rico holds the world salsa competition. The couples can compete using any style. They can dance on 1, on 2 on 3, on 24, 8) LA style, NY style, Colombian, whatever. The judges simply choose who they think is the best. Another example is the K-1 competition. You get fighters from different backgrounds (kick-boxing, kungfu, Taekwondo, karate, etc.) to compete against each other in a boxing ring. As long as you don break the basic rules, you can do what you want.

What I really enjoy about salsa (beside the partner interaction thing), is the freedom you have to express yourself through the dance. You can dance any style, you can do unique things, invent new moves, play with the music, etc. These things are atrophied by standardization.

I just hope that the WSF by standardizing salsa for learning and competition (whether for ballroom or not) doesn’t undermine the essence of the dance.

To the best of my knowledge, only 2 widespread dances aren’t yet standardized – salsa and bachata. This is what I like about them.

Regards

[borikensalsero]

I think egos get in the middle of love, hence, dollar sings grow in people's eyes. They rather make a buck, than humbly teach everyone what they know, and leave the room with a smile on their face, because compensation for loving what you do isn't necessary. However, I know that not everyone thinks as I do, hence, we live in an imperialistic/democracy where you do what you want, and have every right to do so.

All sports have rules, I'm not sure standardization is the word. I think of conforming when I think of standard. Standard to me is more of a measurement given some form of upper-most excellence. I guess, the real question is, whom is the WSF directed to? Who will set the standard? What is the standard?

What about the dancer who follows none of WSF rules, patterns, moves etc, yet is head above shoulders all of WSF? On top of that, he disagrees with how WSF credits instructors, and the way their students depict the dance form. What is going to happen to that dancer? What is going to happen to him when he says Isaac, that isn’t dancing salsa, that is a blurred vision of what salsa is and should be? What happens then, what happens to the guy that knows medals, and trophies don’t equal to excellence? But an egotistical battle that says I practiced until it wasn’t me dancing but the moves dancing me.

See, the idea here is that people come first. It is how people are treated that will welcome others into your life. I don’t know anything about Isaac the person, however, the salsa world knows a lot about Isaac and they don’t seem to have your back. There must be a reason for it; someone isn’t black-labeled for the heck of it. The only way to prove Isaac to be good to the salsa community is to be good to it, not once, not in mind, but in actions. If you want WSF to grab a piece of the pie then do it with everyone else in mind, for the good of all. Show that even when you are trying to standardize salsa and thinking of your well being, you are just looking to add to what it is already there to make it more than it is for all to enjoy.

Salsa already has standardization, it is in the form basic rules, as the NBA, MLB, NFL, NHL have it. To other teams the standards are US PRO sports, why? Because they have the best individual players, not the best rules, nor the best moves, nor the best looking plays, but the best players. The standard is set for others by how they perceive the players. In that case, what is the standard for US Sport Figures? See, there isn’t such thing as standardization of a given sport, but rules. Basic rules that govern how the game is played rather than the outcome/form/shape/move of the game, speed, etc. Salsa has its basic rules, within those basics nothing can be standardized, unless there is some kind of goal, look and feel, a given organization is looking for. Then and only then, can you have standardization, for standardization needs a model by which to draw its standards by, which can only mean that no 2 organizations will follow the same standards for there is too much room for them and as many as there are people. My standard is to look like no one else, can I teach it, teaching someone to dance like I dance is to dilute that dancer. I can’t teach him to be me by my standards, I can only teach him how to be him by salsa basic rules and standard of you do what you want within those rules.

What do I think of the competition? This is the US, competition makes everyone better.

[Sagitta]

By the way, 2 of the largest Salsa promoters in the world now are trying to copy the WSF with certification, sanctioning of events, a Salsa University and more. What do you think of that? The WSF's biggest critics at one time are imitating the WSF. :lol:
Who?

To the best of my knowledge, only 2 widespread dances aren’t yet standardized – salsa and bachata. This is what I like about them.
What about merengue and cumbia?

[IsaacAltman]

Maybe standardization may not suit you, so lets call it rules. As you may know, the WSF has its U.S. and World Championships. You may also know in the event that the Classic and Showdance are not standarizied per se, they have rules. No rules on what style you do, but competition rules or standards. The World Shine Championships is also open to all styles. Last year a Cuban won, this year Argentina, all doing their own syles. Rules on levels below the Championship level, i.e. Newcomers, etc. are made to judge on an even playing field much like most sporting tournaments that are non championship.

Learning where your feet go, dance position, posture, etc. does not inhibit growth, but opens new doors. Discipline encourages excellence. The Olympic Games is attest to that. Now Salsa is an official Junior Olympic Sport. Kids all over the world have a chance to compete right along with track and field, gymnastics, and basketball. The WSF paved that road. Having a World Junior Salsa Championship this year will provide additional incentive to the youth. The WSF works a lot with youth all over the World as the WSF believes this is the future of Salsa.

I invite you to come and witness first hand what we do at the WSF by attending a workshop, event, or contest. Just making opinions without really seeing what goes on can sometimes be misleading.

[IsaacAltman]

By the way, I do like everyones opinion as it fuels thought and change.

The PR Congress is now going to standardization with certification of teachers, etc. as well as Albert Torres is trying to put together the same. This just validates what the WSF has been trying to do all along.

[IsaacAltman]

Many have judged the WSF "standardization without ever seeing the actual steps on video. Some have judged the syllabus by its names. This again is short sighted as in the example of my first name does not necessarily make me Jewish or Black.
I hope through this forum and other medias, the WSF can dispell all the rumors and inuendos. The WSF is open to new ideas and welcomes them. Many of the critics during our early development are now trying to do the same thing. The WSF appreciates their effort as this is our validation. The WSF has in the past and continues to have some people who's main objective is to undermine the WSF with false rumors, accusations, boycotting, and blackballing. The WSF intends to expose these people so that these kinds of tactics do not enter a free society like the one we live and enjoy today.

I fully intend to continue this "Ask the CEO" to give access to questions that many may have and hope that many of the people who visit this site will be able to vent and voice their opinion openly with me. This is a " no holds barred" invitation. The WSF is commited to the growth of Salsa.

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

To the best of my knowledge, only 2 widespread dances aren’t yet standardized – salsa and bachata. This is what I like about them.
What about merengue and cumbia?

Sagitta, you´re right I forgot about cumbia. Regarding merengue, since my instructor taught merengue in our ballroom classes, I just naturally assumed it was part of the ballroom program and had been standardized. But I guess not. I´m not too familiar with ballroom (only had it for several months). Thanks for clarifying this.

Regards,

[danceguy]

I don’t agree with you regarding the need for “standardization” for competition purposes. Each year Puerto Rico holds the world salsa competition. The couples can compete using any style. They can dance on 1, on 2 on 3, on 24,LA style, NY style, Colombian, whatever. The judges simply choose who they think is the best. Another example is the K-1 competition. You get fighters from different backgrounds (kick-boxing, kungfu, Taekwondo, karate, etc.) to compete against each other in a boxing ring. As long as you don break the basic rules, you can do what you want.

Hmm, I’ll be going a bit off topic with this post, but I decided to write this since it ties in heavily with the theme here.

One of the reasons I love Salsa is that it has so many ways to be interpreted. As I go out dancing more and more…I see people doing on1, on2, some only doing the slot like me, others just go in circles...and some do both. As people may have noticed am I somewhat of an anarchist about regulations and competitions, so keep that in mind as you are reading this. I surely do not consider Salsa a sport…it is a source of healing, a passion to be expressed with my body, a way to communicate with other people and share the joys of life together on the dance floor.

Maple Leaf – I see you mentioned MA comps – so may I ask, what are your thoughts about martial arts and how standardized they have become? I do apologize if I offend anyone here who studies MA for reasons of sport…but as a traditionalist in the “old school” systems of MA…I feel that all of the belts, contests and tournaments have really taken the spirit out of what martial arts used to be. Recently I watched the “Extreme Martial Arts” show on the discovery channel, and everyone I know was talking about how awesome it was, but I found it almost offensive…since they left so much out and focused on the glitz and glamour...

One of my first masters said once “if I teach a student all that I know, and 20 years later they are doing exactly what I have showed them, then I have failed and taught them nothing.” The nucleus, the core of the art or dance always stays the same – but it grows and changes as time goes on keeping the spirit that conceived it alive.

Some say that by not having standarization you will become stagnated and eventually fade away...but the same is true for confining an art to be done a certain way. By supressing the prinicples that the art is based on - this too, causes stagnation, decay and death.

Perhaps like MA, Salsa will one day be very standardized, again part of the inevitable flow of evolution. That is good for those who wish to walk that path.

And for those who do not wish to – they will follow what is right for their heart – and keep the spirit of what they love alive through their way of life.

Best,

SG

[d nice]

Not all martial arts are standardized. I come from both progressive and traditional arts... my most recent interpretation of what I was taught has been through Mixed-Martial Arts. Few rules, few stylistic biases in the rules that exist.

SO while a portion of the world strives for more direct control over what is being done and how in some misguided effort to control quality, another segment has given them the finger and improvises, adapts, overcomes. Absorbing what is useful and disgarding what is not. Those who were taught ineffective traditional arts find themselves losing time and time again. Those who were taught progressive but ineffective arts are sitting right next to them.

Lindy Hop is currently the same... the American Lindy Hop Championships and the various West Coast Swing sponsored Lindy Hop competitions (there is nor eal difference between them, I won't go into it here, but pm me and I'll fill you in) have lots of rules and divisions and seem to be moving more and more towards a standardized view on what is and is not lindy hop... while other competitions like Hellzapoppin' and Ultimate Lindy Hop Showdown have no rules at all, enough divisions to keep things interesting, and Lindy Hop is allowed to be expressed however the dancers wish.

I'm not sure why Salsa needs a standardization... afterall haven't the various national and world ballroom associations along with chain/franchise studios done a pretty good idea of stanadardizing the dance in their pervue?

Thankfully no club or traditional salsa dancer is ever going to follow such an attempt. I mean who is really qualified to say this is the way this dance MUST be done, all other ways are wrong? Who has the arrogance to say that there way is superior to all others?

I'm not really a Salsa dancer so I'nm sure I'm missing all sorts of subtlies involved with this issue... I learned from the Escovito's, and the things they always focused on was that the rhythm was key, as long as I danced to the music and led I couldn't make a mistake... but what would they know about such things.

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

I see you mentioned MA comps – so may I ask, what are your thoughts about martial arts and how standardized they have become?


I apologize for being off-topic.

Scorpion Guy, even though I have never practised Martial Arts, I have always wanted to. When I was a kid, the main reason I wanted to learn MA was, as most kids, to be “tough” and in case I got into a fight, I would be able to beat the cr*#p out of anyone. As I matured, I realised that MA was something completely different. I discovered that it was more for the mind than for the body. It helps your discipline, increases your focus, energy, strength, self confidence, willpower and most importantly, it makes you feel good about yourself. This is very well depicted in that old KungFu series, you know, “grasshopper…”. The standardization thing with the belts, tournaments, etc., in my opinion was an attempt to take MA to the mass market. Someone thought up this marketing strategy in order to benefit financially. And you know how these things work, as soon as you discover the “formula of success”, it is immediately copied by tons of other people. This is probably what happened to martial arts. Standardization whether in MA, dance or any other area, tends to kill (or severely damages) the essence of the art form. It creates mental and physical barriers. You don’t evolve this way!

This is why I’m against standardization in salsa. It is one of the last frontiers of freedom, and self expression in the dance world. I’m not saying you can’t get this from ballroom or other types of standardized dances, however, you are much more limited. If you try to do things a little differently, people sometimes give you a strange look. The strict rules are omnipresent in your subconscious mind. In salsa, no one judges you. You can be who you want, you are free to express yourself in anyway you wish. Boriken explains theses things very well in his posts. I’m on the same wavelength as him on this.

Regards,

[borikensalsero]

What irks me about standardization is that people take it as a physical part of doing something. MA, dancing, they are all forms of self expression, yet people seek to demonstrate what way is better, missing the point that no way is better, but the way the self is doing it.

It isn't about what mastery we can physically achieve through a dance, but what the self is allowed to express. MA gets lost because people don’t see the big picture, (becoming one), they stay snorkeling and deem it deep water scuba diving.

The same thing with salsa, dancers get caught up in what is right and wrong, what the proper way of doing something is, that eventually they become bad teachers, and teach everyone how to be a copy of themselves. They never think of giving the dancer the freedom to dance as they would, not as I or any tells them.

I hate to keep getting back to the soul, but that is what is all about. It is about enlightening the soul through physical means at which time the illumination of an enlightened dancer is achieved through the dancing of the self. Dancing isn’t about 20 years worth of classes with world-class instructors. It is something beyond the physical world. It is something no one can give, it is something we all have, but no one can tell you how to get there. When people don’t understand the simplicity of the self they get lost in the physical world of teaching the complexities they’ve created to others and how this way is the way to do it, because everyone says so. The, how you should kick, how you should punch, comes out. They can’t just say, this is the beat, this will help you stay within the music, these are the simple rules of what might enable a faster progress, however, becoming one with the music, growing as a dancer, reaching beyond the physical means of throwing a punch is for you to find out. It is for you to find your way, for your way is just as good as anyone’s way.

Messing with salsa will dilute it. For, teaching about the soul isn’t done through posture, foot placement, and know how of what any one association cares to do. If they want to snorkel and believe they are deep water diving, then go ahead. Teach everyone how salsa is to be danced. We’ve already taught people how to think (religion), we’ve already taught them how to live (marriage, job, etc), we’ve already taught them who is more important than who (gov’t), so why not just let salsa follow the masses to a world where freedom is freedom as long as you do what I tell you to do.

I must say that this is the first post I write out of anger!

[IsaacAltman]

Ok, give me what your smoking (just kidding). We need to focus not on the philosophical but the practical. Hundreds go to a dance studio to learn salsa every week to be able to dance at the next wedding, go to the nightclub on the weekend, etc. They just want a few basics and turns, not to get into metaphysical meditations. This is why you need some sort of standardization. Anyway all styles share one thing, the basics.

[SDsalsaguy]

How on earth do you get from:
They just want a few basics and turns, not to get into metaphysical meditations.
To:
This is why you need some sort of standardization.
:?: :?: :?:

I see no logical connection why any type of standardization would ever be needed to learn "a few basics and turns."

Anyway all styles share one thing, the basics.
:shock: :shock: :shock:

I guess it depends how one defines the basics...

[borikensalsero]

Ok, give me what your smoking (just kidding). We need to focus not on the philosophical but the practical. Hundreds go to a dance studio to learn salsa every week to be able to dance at the next wedding, go to the nightclub on the weekend, etc. They just want a few basics and turns, not to get into metaphysical meditations. This is why you need some sort of standardization. Anyway all styles share one thing, the basics.

Well, so then you've simply put it. To get someone to a wedding, or to a night club to shake it we don't need an organization to tell us how. Why teach everyone about foot placement, if all they care is to go to a wedding? How about just teach telling them to be themselves? You answered your own question in regards to a salsa standard. No, because all we care is to have fun at a wedding, not how someone else says I should dance. You seem to be interested in reaching the inadequate target population.

The reason why blandness roots is because individuality isn't stressed, that individuality is what I'm speaking off. One that organizations can't harvest because they themselves, don't understand how it goes into place with their lifestyle, and worse the dance they teach. At the end the organizations harvest itself will prove that watching a caged animal isn’t as uplifting as seeing it roam in the Savannas.

[IsaacAltman]

:D Please don't take offense but you take me back to my Hippie Days :shock:

[pygmalion]

Hey. I'm ballroom first and foremost (although that may change if I keep hanging around DF LOL). So I am used to and comfortable with standardization. That's the ballroom world.

And I'm not trying to be in any way offensive when I say this. No offense or personal comments here. But the dance business is about making money. Making money. That's it.

And I think one of the dangers of standardization is that making money may come above teaching/allowing people to dance with freedom, personality and style.

I'll tell you why I feel that way. The first studio I went to taught "salsa" class on Friday nights. What a laugh. The guy teaching salsa was a ballet guy from Peoria. He HATED salsa, and couldn't salsa his way out of a wet paper bag. But he was there teaching "salsa" by the studios "syllabus" because he was getting paid $10 an hour plus commission to do it, and making money for the studio too. He and the studio were doing those students a serious disservice. They couldn't teach salsa. Who were they kidding? But they charged people good money to learn dancing that would get them laughed out of any club, or for that matter, any Latin wedding. But they advertised themselves as getting people ready for weddings, cruises, etc.

What's it about? Money. Not dancing. So standardization, if any, would have to be approached with great caution. I think there are a lot of dangers. Just my view.

[borikensalsero]

:D Please don't take offense but you take me back to my Hippie Days :shock:

No offense taken Isaac. But now I take it that you understand where I'm comming from. :D Even if we don't agree.

[IsaacAltman]

:D I know exactly where you are coming from. Maybe someday we can meet and discuss it over some "brownies" :wink:

[borikensalsero]

:D I know exactly where you are coming from. Maybe someday we can meet and discuss it over some "brownies" :wink:

lol... I don't eat chocolate, but I'll have an apple while you have the brownies. :D

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

What's it about? Money. Not dancing. So standardization, if any, would have to be approached with great caution. I think there are a lot of dangers. Just my view.

I agree with Pygmalion. We all know this is about money, no need to be naive here. "Money makes the world go round".

Issac, you already know my view on this so I will be short.

I´m very skeptical towards standardization. I do however think it´s funny how the WSF says "the goal is to promote, encourage, publicize and facilitate the art of Salsa dancing".

Salsa doesn´t need to be promoted. The people that dance salsa promote it by the mouth-to-mouth method. Salsa is already a success story all around the world. Salsa clubs are poping up in every major city in the world without the need for mass marketing campaigns. It´s mostly the love of the dance and everything it represents that has captived the people.

I think it´s funny how no-one worries about promoting other non-standardized dances such as Merengue, Bachata, and Cumbia. Maybe it´s because there´re not so popular which in turn means less cash benefits and opportunities.

Regards,