A Good Actor, an OK Dancer

[DanceMentor]

I've always felt that I can put on a pretty good show. In settings where I was being judged by people who were not dancers themselves, I have often drawn a better response than dancers who compete, and would surely beat me in a competition.

Think about people like Fred Astaire or John Travolta, etc. If you were to place them in a modern ballroom competition, I think they would not do so well. But I bet they would get an amazing response, because they know how to act the part. What do you think?

[will35]

Fred Astaire might not do so well at Blackpool, but there is nobody there who has the versatility and general feel for dancing that he had. If that is acting, I'll take that over any competition you can win.

[DanceMentor]

I don't dispute Fred Astaire's skills as a dancer, and maybe I could of thought of a better example. Danny Kaye might have been a better example.

The point I'm trying to make is there are people who are very skilled technically, yet are lacking when it comes to the presentation.

To further illustrate my point. Look at the dancers they are putting in modern movies. Rarely do they find their talent from the ballroom competition circuit.

[will35]

Right, I get it now. But John Travolta is a good example. Lot of style, but not much else.

[DancingMommy]

Right, I get it now. But John Travolta is a good example. Lot of style, but not much else.

To quote Madonna from her Blonde Ambition tour: "You're good lookin' and that counts for somethin' ".

I'd rather look at a hottie that has style than some goofball ugly that had good technique... But that's just me....

FWIW, has anyone seen "That's The Way I Like It"? It's a Singaporean take-off on Saturday Night Fever.... And OH SO FUNNY!!!!! The dude dances better (IMNSHO) than Travolta....

[will35]

I couldn't agree more, DancingMommy. BTW, is Danny Kaye hot?

[SDsalsaguy]

FWIW, has anyone seen "That's The Way I Like It"? It's a Singaporean take-off on Saturday Night Fever.... And OH SO FUNNY!!!!! The dude dances better (IMNSHO) than Travolta....
Yes, I have that movie sitting on my shelf. Not my flavor of dancing but, as a self-aware and intentional take-off on Saturday Night Fever it is quite entertaining.

[suek]

I couldn't agree more, DancingMommy. BTW, is Danny Kaye hot?Danny Kaye hot. What a concept. He was most definitely not hot. Funny, though. Clearly my advanced age is showing again...I watched his movies as a kid. I liked him in The Five Pennies (playing a jazz musician!), Hans Christian Andersen and The Secret Life of Walter Mitty--all from the '40s and '50s.

[pygmalion]

Great topic. And I'm so tempted to go off on a philosophical tangent about acting/showmanship in my own dancing. But I'll restrain myself.

Hmm. Fred Astaire and Danny Kaye? Both okay dancers by today's standards, and better actors. But who's to say that, if they were around in today's dance scene, they wouldn't get the coaching, etc, and be excellent dancers as well? Especially Fred Astaire, I'm guessing, but then I'm prejudiced. I LOVE some Fred Astaire movies.

I guess it really boils down to knowing your intended audience. If your audience is judges at Blackpool, it's better to be a technically excellent dancer. If it's the movie viewing public, it's better to be a good actor. In either case, it helps to be cute. *shrug* What can I say? People are pretty shallow that way. You've gotta have the look that's in vogue, whatever that is.

[Adeline]

Actors have dance doubles too right? So I guess in the movie world, acting and appearance count more than dancing skills... By the way, I'm from Singapore but I've never seen "That's the way I like it"... :oops: I know of a local movie that's a take on Saturday Night Fever though but I think it's Forever Fever... By the way, DancingMommy, what's FWIW and IMNSHO??? Sorry... that's another :oops: for me...

[d nice]

Fred Astaire in all likelyhood would do quite well at Blackpool. He was perfectionist and spent hours upon hours perfecting small steps and gestures so they would seem effortless within the context of the dance.

His work ethic was amazing, and every professional dancer who worked with him commented on his dedication and talent...

Now of course this is to be expected... after all Fred and his sister started on the stage as dancers and singers and Fred only moved on to acting when their partnership ended (she got married).

[pygmalion]

I had heard that about Fred Astaire, and Gene Kelly too, dnice. From what I heard, both of them were absolute perfectionists with an incredible work ethic.

And Fred Astaire, at least, added some serious acting ability to his dance. I wasn't all that impressed with the dialogue in his movies, but his ability to characterize emotion through the use of his body, facial expressions, etc. was totally amazing.

[peachexploration]

What are your thoughts on Oscar winning actor James Cagney? He was actually a former vaudeville song and "dance" man and according to an A&E Biography special, preferred dancing. Movies goers loved him in mostly ganster films thought. :) He was also, in real life, an accomplished painter and poet. Very different person from the roles he played.

Oh, also Cyd Cheresse? Her MGM Hollywood musicals include such favorites as Silk Stockings, The Bandwagon, and Brigadoon. She starred alongside male dancers in film history, Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly in Singin' in the Rain.

[will35]

James Cagney kicked a** at almost everything he did. They say he was even a good cattle rancher. He was a man who always, always, always looked for simplicity in whatever he did. He was able to get directly to the essence of whatever he wanted quickly. Those simple, dirty faced street characters that he played were just little tiny pieces of him. That is how he made it look real.

[suek]

Check out Cagney in Yankee Doodle Dandy. I think the song is Give My Regards to Bway...He does this amazing cross-the-stage, dance-up-the-wall thing that knocked me out when I was a kid watching it and still does today. One of my early dance heroes.

And how about Gene Kelly and Donald O'Connor...is it Make 'em Laugh? from Singin' in the Rain? Where they dance -- hmmm do they do that wall thing too? I guess I'm a sucker for dancing up the wall! -- and over the couch.

Speaking of walls, how about that early CG bit where Fred dances up the walls and across the ceiling? Cheesy-corny yes, but what an inventive mind to think of it.

Astaire's best partner? IMO the hatrack he dances with in Royal Wedding. Absolutely breathtaking. I want to see it again, now that I've been studying lead/follow. (Just googled and found out the walls and ceilings one is from RW too.)

One woman I really like is Gwen Verdon. Saw her on Bway in Sweet Charity. And Damn Yankees in the movies. And she danced for a long time. She inspires me.

I grew up watching this stuff. Over and over. Fun to talk about and sparking a must rewatch with my new eyes list.

[d nice]

Think about people like Fred Astaire or John Travolta, etc. If you were to place them in a modern ballroom competition, I think they would not do so well. But I bet they would get an amazing response, because they know how to act the part. What do you think?

This statement brings a couple things to mind. Do competitiions truely impart some standard of excellence? I think not. I know amazing dancers who can... and have danced competitive dancers into the ground... executing patterns and exhibiting musicality with such power, grace and subtlety as to not even be on the same level as some who have world championship titles. Yet depending on the style of competition would likely not move out of the prelimenary rounds.

Dancing as an artform is all about artisitc self-expression, the ability to emote is a fundamental part to this, something actors have in abundance.

Performance Psrots are about flawless execution of specific combinations and through well established technique.

Personally I want no part in dance as a sport. I feel it is in direct contradiction to the traditions of the dances I do. Now I'm not against competition...

I just think that a competition on an art form should be about who is able to be the most expressive through that form... not who is necessarily the best technician.

[DanceMentor]

Thank you d nice for communicating that so clearly. I agree with you in a lot of ways. What you said was part of my original intent.

When you go to a dance competition, there are certain standards in place that cause everyone to be the same (at least to an extent). For example, the couple can't choose their own song. Also, they are resticted in the length of time they dance and what they wear. It's just different.

But if you take someone who has great acting abilities, let them pick their own music, dress, length of song, you get a completely different product.

[samba ajr]

Tis the season for "White Christmas" and :) Danny Kaye :) dancing with Vera Ellen (forgive me if I'm wrong here) to the wonderful song "The Best Things Happen While You're Dancing!" Foxtrot, a bit of tango, a batch of soft-shoe, gliding across a bridge on a ski lift, and all to a beautiful tune that I'd love to dance to. I'd watch this scene again and again!