Is all the ballroom gossip really necessary?

[pygmalion]

In my role as DF moderator, I spend a lot of time on the web, perusing dance and ballroom dance web sites. One thing I've noticed, particularly in the ballroom world, is the prevalence of gossip. Who's sleeping with whom. Who's gay. Who's straight. Who's partnered. Who's breaking up. And, of course, why. Question: why all this gossip? Does it serve a useful purpose? Does it benefit the people "in the know," or is it just human nature to be curious about people we admire? Doesn't it just add unnecessarily to the already stressful life of high level competitors? Is gossip a good or bad thing?

[DanceMentor]

I think your gossip quotient is directly related to your popularity.
In some ways, this can help to prevent the wrong people from getting too far and screwing things up.

On the other hand, there are people who like to exagerate or spread rumors for personal benefit, and this is not healthy. Fortunately, the gossip tends to spread that they are gossipers.

[NeoDevin]

I imagine it's a lot like anyone else who gets famous. In any music magazine, they have all sorts of personal details about big name singers. People seem to have a weird craving for useless personal information about famous people.

[Sagitta]

Gossip is a tricky thing
You let it slip and it can easily grow into a malicious creatin'
I find it easier not to let any gossip out

Seriously, once you "gossip" about someone you don't have any control over what happens to the information you have shared. If it has the potential to hurt that person why would you want to inflict harm on another human being? In my personal experience not much good comes from "negativity".

[DanceMentor]

And judging by your 2003 Dance Forum Awards Nominations, I would expect you must also be the Most Gossiped About member as well, right? :lol:

[will35]

I sort of like gossip, even if it is about me. The problem is that in the old days, we'd be sitting drinking coffee somewhere, and talking. Our gossip might get out of the room, and it might not. Nowadays, everything we say is all over the world in a few seconds. When it comes to milongas, I try not to kiss and tell. But I've seen and heard a few strange things.

[IsaacAltman]

Whether you like it or not, gossip sells. Look at the National Enquirer.

[SDsalsaguy]

Whether you like it or not, gossip sells. Look at the National Enquirer.
Yes, but the point is "to whom"? No one serious about the news looks to the National Enquirer as a news source, now do they? Yes, gossip does sell, but isn't that in many ways exactly the point... that those involved in gossip are clearly trying to sell something.

[pygmalion]

I guess what bothers me about the gossip is that it's so irrelevant to the dancing, yet people spend time and effort ferreting out really personal details about these people's lives. I know they're celebrities, but don't they deserve a little privacy?

And on the other hand, just to be fair, there's a thin line between information and gossip. For example, top competitive couple A breaks up as a dance partnership. That's information that may shake up rankings and results of major comps. Fair game, I think. But all the personal reasons why they broke up, are personal. Not? The line can get fuzzy.

[KevinL]

Whether you like it or not, gossip sells. Look at the National Enquirer.
Yes, but the point is "to whom"? No one serious about the news looks to the National Enquirer as a news source, now do they? Yes, gossip does sell, but isn't that in many ways exactly the point... that those involved in gossip are clearly trying to sell something.
Unfortunately there are people (like my parents) who think most of the stories in those "papers" are real...
Luckily they aren't in positions of power so following those "journals" doesn't really do any harm.

Kevin

[IsaacAltman]

My Mom thinks the Enquirer is true news as well. Gossip can be news or not. I agree that things can get a bit fuzzy in certain situations. It's been around forever in one form or another. I just don't think there is any way to stop it or regulate it, so like it or not we have to learn to live with it. Most of the public is smart enough to know about what gossip represents.

[IsaacAltman]

Just to give you an example, there was gossip going around that I won my World Championship from my own organization (WSF). As dumb as that sounds, some people believed it.

[DanceMentor]

You know, Isaac, I wasn't sure about that either. Thanks for clarifying.

[ballroomboilergirl]

If there is one thing I've learned about ballroom dancing thus far, whether it be professional, amateur, collegiate, or even social, is that ballrom = DRAMA.

I actually had a very insightful conversation with one of the advanced guys on my team the other day about all the gossip and rumors and backbiting that go on just on our team, and he gave a very valid response which I feel applies to the professional ballroom world as well:
"Think about it: in ballroom, you are CONSTANTLY in the middle of an emotionally-charged atmosphere. Each partnership is like a marriage: both parties have to compromise and communicate in order to make the partnership work, and there has to be a great degree of trust between both parties on the floor. And quite often, like when you're dancing rumba, your bodies are thisclose, and you are acting as if you are madly in love with one another. When you do this day after day for a long time, often the lines between what goes on off and on the floor become blurred, and THAT'S when you have drama."

It made so much sense to me...when you see a couple dancing and they appear to be in love with one another, or on the flipside, DON'T seem to be in love with one another, it's human nature to speculate..."Ooh, I bet those two are dating!" or "Oooh, he doesn't act like he's into her, I bet he's gay!" Oftentimes this kind of gossip spreads out of jealousy...I admit I have found myself thinking rather unkind things about someone who seems to get the hang of things better than I do. Yah, its not right and its not cool, but I'm definitely NOT perfect and no one else is, either. Sometimes I feel like a lot of the ballroom gossip stems from people who are envious of the glamorous life they think ballroom dancers lead...somehow they live vicariously through the dancers' escapades on the floor.

Anyway, I'm sick of all the gossip too, but I have a feeling its not going anywhere, so I may as well get used to it. I guess I just try and console myself with the fact that being straight or gay, married or single, black or white, etc. has no effect on how well one dances... :?

[pygmalion]

:lol: :lol: You're honest, ballroomboilergirl. And I think you're right. A certian amount of drama and talk is unavoidable. That's how people are. :cry:

[DancingMommy]

I don't think it has anything to do with being "ballroom".... Almost every area of specialty (any form of dance, beauty pageants, etc) has their own gossip mills...

I think people can suffer from morbid curiosity and want to know *everything* about their favorite celebs/people they don't particularly like.

Also, I don't think gossip in general does anything positive for anyone. I've been privy to some information that I have to hold close to the chest because it just doesn't benefit anyone *else* to know it and would come across as catty if I repeated it. The info given to me was given not as a confidence or gossip, but merely as anecdotal, and doesn't mean much to the general public.

I think that gossip is the above type of information that gets spread around with no regard for the possible outcome of such spreading. What is informative to me may have no value/use or edification to anyone else and is best left inside my own head.

[KevinL]

Is gossip "necessary"? No, of course not.

All that is "necessary" is food, water and air.

Dancing isn't even "necessary", but a lot of people (especially on this forum) put a lot of effort into doing it!

[Spitfire]

The highly social nature of our dance world would seem to make it potential territory for gossip. However, there has not been that much of it here. I do know one lady here though who has told me some things that would best be left unsaid unless you know them for a fact to be true if you're going to say them at all.

[pygmalion]

That's a good point, spitfire. The ballroom gossip isn't confined to chat about high level competitive dancers. It's also there isn the ballrooms, dance teams, and studios out there. Anybody else have experiences to share?

[Spitfire]

And also, it's stuff that really isn't anyone elses business. :roll:

[Porfirio Landeros]

I know of dancers that get so excited when gossip starts about them, even with it's bad, because they feel like, "Now I've made it! People talk about me..."

I guess that's a good way to spin it. If you're important enough for people to talk trash about you, then you're a SuperStar.

[DancingMommy]

It's almost like being on a reality TV show.....

[DancePoet]

When I just now first read the title of this thread, some how my mind read it as, "Is all the baseball gossip really necessary." :oops: :oops: :oops: Then I did a double take, read it correctly, and realized I could blame my error on reading too fast or the process of aging. ;) :lol:

[Warren J. Dew]

I sort of like gossip, even if it is about me. The problem is that in the old days, we'd be sitting drinking coffee somewhere, and talking. Our gossip might get out of the room, and it might not.
On the plus side, the people being gossiped about have at least a chance of finding out what's being said these days, rather than everything being whispered behind their backs.

[DancingMommy]

y'all must know it doesn't matter what they say... just as long as they talk about you....

[chachachacat]

:roll:

[Larinda McRaven]

Petty people talk about other people
Smarter people talk about events
Enlightened people talk about ideas.

[Chris Stratton]

Petty people talk about other people
Smarter people talk about events
Enlightened people talk about ideas.

And when they are bored, people just plain talk...

[GalacticDancer44M]

Petty people talk about other people
Smarter people talk about events
Enlightened people talk about ideas.

Exactly :wink:

[Ms_Sunlight]

I once had the great misfortune to spend some time at a social event talking to a politician who had been disgraced in a sex scandal. (Anyone in the UK remember Ron Davies?)

Anyway, he was there with his new lady friend with whom he was professing to be in the fullest bloom of heterosexual love. Being a politician, and therefore an immensely self-important, self-involved person, he was talking about how difficult all the attention from the media and gossip had made it for them getting together.

I tried to explain to him that, whatever circles you move in, when your private life is being talked about in those circles it makes it hard for you, and expressed the opinion that someone who's love life was the scandal of the village (or office, or circle of friends, or whatever) has exactly the same issues to deal with as he does. Just because their circle is smaller doesn't mean that it feels any different, or any less difficult.

Anyway, Mr. Davies was caught out once again cruising for brief encounters with other men and his new love withered on the branch. But anyway, that's not the point.

The point is, I don't know of a single circle of acquaintances I am involved in that does not involve some level of gossip. Every scene has it, from my workplace to the local Women's Institute.

What matters is how you deal with it. Although I can't help feeling that in Mr. Davies' case he would have gathered a lot less attention had he not spent so much effort in public denial. All the world hates a hypocrite. Which just goes to show that with gossip, whether you are the object or spreader of scandal, what matters is how you personally choose to deal with it.

[Another Elizabeth]

I think that the ballroom world is somewhat more gossip-prone than some other activities, because of the nature of partnering. Specifically, ballroom dancers have both dance partners and (sometimes) life partners, who may or may not be the same. This invites speculation on what category any given individual might fit into, whether there are tensions between the two types of relationship, etc. This was seriously exacerbated in the past by the perception among top-level dancers that you had to be married to your dance partner in order to win Blackpool.

Laura, you seem conversant with the figure-skating world. Does partner skating have the same type of gossip as partner dancing? That might shed some light on whether this theory makes sense.

[gte692h]

Question: why all this gossip? Does it serve a useful purpose? Does it benefit the people "in the know," or is it just human nature to be curious about people we admire? Doesn't it just add unnecessarily to the already stressful life of high level competitors? Is gossip a good or bad thing?

some things have no method or purpose ! gossip is human, right ? the way I see it, controversy is good. it raises interest in a person, and it would raise their profile.
for people who are the topic of gossip, it can be stressful, but ultimately, a person will always have 'haters'.. you can't go through life expecting everybody to like you, and everything about you, including your choices/actions/behaviour.

i enjoy hearing about the gossip, who's dating whom, who's bisexual, who's dating their students. perhaps gossip is a human desire to bring down somebody who is perceived to be up in the stars..

[macha]

Gossip's everywhere. The worst place for gossip is amongst "churchpeople" here- I don't know if it's the same everywhere, but no church is safe from "the idle tongues of womenfolk" here. Not worth going. Ballroom dancing is so much like other hobbies I've been interested in though as far as gossip. Although in one horse breed association, you can flat get kicked OUT if it's actually damaging. Booted AND fined.

Like in Havana Nights- life is a perpetual high school with various tiers of society, LOL.

[Laura]

Laura, you seem conversant with the figure-skating world. Does partner skating have the same type of gossip as partner dancing?

Heck yes. And since figure skating has a LOT of non-skating fans, there is more gossip and it's even worse....

[jon]

Necessary no, inevitable yes. Like celebrity gossip magazines. There are always people who find other's lives more interesting than their own.

[ChaChaMama]

I definitely think all arenas of life have a lot of gossip.

I'm a college prof, and academia is full of gossip: who is sleeping with whom, who is an alcoholic, who is considering moving from school X to school Y, who dissed whose work, etc.

I think that the big fish in the small pond of the latin/ballroom world have to assume that others will take an interest in their lives.

There also is a lot of newsworthy gossip in the ballroom world. I have tons of colleagues who have taught at the same school for 25+ years. The vast majority of academics are not being assiduously courted by tons of other schools and don't make tons of career changes. In the ballroom world, it seems like there are breakups and new partnerships all the time.

I would actually like to hear more of a certain kind of gossip. For example, which visiting coaches are so amazing that if need be, you should skip work to get a private lesson in? Which big names are actually surprisingly bad teachers? Which teachers are very welcoming to bronze/silver students, and which ones would prefer to work with couples who are pre-championship and above only?

Inquiring minds want to know....

:) Becky

[cocodrilo]

I think if we had no one or nothing to gossip about, life would be pretty dull. Does one want to discuss politics, morals, family or business 24/7? What a brain drain!

[ShyDancer]

I dont think all gossip is intended to be malicious....

I love to know about what is going on in the dance world, who is dancing with who, who broke up, why A and B are not dancing at the next comp ...... I dont like to know so I can spread it around or to harm their reputation in anyway, Im just curious as to why, Like someone said earlier, these people are people I look up to and would love to be like, all these georgeous girls and guys are in their own way "celebrities" to me and many other lower grade dancers.
We talk about them because we admire them, and we dont say anything nasty about them, or talk about their private lives.
Of course we hear about who is dating who, whos recently engaged/married or broken up, but thats human nature ... Im sure their non-dancing friends and family are talking about it too, its not just a ballroom thing.

[DancePoet]

Petty people talk about other people
Smarter people talk about events
Enlightened people talk about ideas.
And when they are bored, people just plain talk...
Boredom is for those who aren't taking responsibility for their own entertainment.

[the best]

I must tell you honestly - gossip is a part of ballroom dancing life. It is social thing. Before people wrote memoirs, letters - now they read and write gossips. It is a part of entertainment.

[Laura]

Judy!!!

[cocodrilo]

I'm waiting for Mr Jetson, Astro, and the rest of the gang to arrive! :lol:

[chachachacat]

Rastro!

[DancingMommy]

<----- Good enough?

[the best]

Judy!!!
Laura, who is Judy? I am not. I just want to say that I honestly enjoy reading gossips. I do not have enough information and opportunity to spread them, but I love to read.
Before, in sixteen century people wrote memoirs. Did you read memoirs and maximes of Duke Francois de La Rochefoucauld? It is so ehjoyable. Or letters of famous people? For example letters of Madam de Sevinnie?
Just one example - Everyone can easily live through somebody's else misery. Isn't it just perfect.
Very similar enjoyment I receive from reading gossips about dancers. So much intrigue... Better than thriller!!

[chachachacat]

"the best" - Your avatar is Judy Jetson, Jane Jetson's daughter, from an American cartoon in the - late 60's?
Laura's avatar is Jane Jetson.

[Laura]

Judy!!!
Laura, who is Judy? I am not.

You might not be, but your avatar (the little picture by your screen name) is. In fact, your avatar is the picture of my avatar's daughter.

[the best]

I see, I must watch it.
I like my atavar, it is pretty, but the problem that I'm probably much older than Laura. I saw your pictures, Laura, in the website with your dresses. You are much younger than me. You look very nice in your dresses, attractive and sexy.

[cocodrilo]

I see, I must watch it.
I like my atavar, it is pretty, but the problem that I'm probably much older than Laura. I saw your pictures, Laura, in the website with your dresses. You are much younger than me. You look very nice in your dresses, attractive and sexy.
But you should still call her "Mom" when using that avatar! :wink:

[Sagitta]

I see, I must watch it.
I like my atavar, it is pretty, but the problem that I'm probably much older than Laura. I saw your pictures, Laura, in the website with your dresses. You are much younger than me. You look very nice in your dresses, attractive and sexy.
But you should still call her "Mom" when using that avatar! :wink:

Silly..silly..silly!! What si this thread about again? gossip?

[Laura]

I don't think there are any pictures of me on my dress web site. The woman on the front page in the Latin dress with the black hair is a friend of mine. I made her dress, though.

Gee, maybe that's why a number of people around here seem to think I'm cute, because they're looking at Shawnd'rae and thinking it's me?

For future reference: the chances of any of you ever seeing me in a Latin dress are approximately the same as one of us visiting Alpha Centauri.

[ThreeStep]

That's what imaginations are for.

ThreeStep
(oo la la)

[pygmalion]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[DancingMommy]

Your avator is Judy - daughter of Jane Jetson (Laura's avatar). My avatoar at the moment is Rosie (the automated servant of the Jetsons).

[the best]

I saw the pictures in www.lagassa.com/gowns. In this page a beautiful lady in a navy blue standart dress. Who is it?

[Laura]

Oh my god, that is me! I thought you went to my other web site at dancesportimage.com

Well, THANK YOU then!

[the best]

Any new gossips?

[Sagitta]

Any new gossips?

I hope not!! :shock: I don't think we like gossiping around here!

[the best]

:(

[cocodrilo]

Any new gossips?
There's hotter gossip on the salsa threads- check out the cool "Rejection" stuff going on now! Woo-hoo! 8)

[Twilight_Elena]

We are respected ladies. We don't gossip.
(But pssst! I bet you didn't know about Sabor's lime greek socksies! :P :P

Twilight Elena

[the best]

I meant innosent gossip, like news about romances, new partnerships, break ups and so on. It is so exciting like reading a good book. Besides, do you know with whom Beata is dancing now?

[the best]

Any new gossips?
There's hotter gossip on the salsa threads- check out the cool "Rejection" stuff going on now! Woo-hoo! 8)
There is nothing interesting there. :roll:

[pygmalion]

I meant innosent gossip, like news about romances, new partnerships, break ups and so on. It is so exciting like reading a good book. Besides, do you know with whom Beata is dancing now?

Hmm. There are facts, which may or may not be innocent, then there's gossip --- unsubstantiated rumors. Based on what I've seen at other ballroom dance sites, gossip, even innocent gossip, can get un-innocent pretty quickly. :?

[randomMysh]

And such is life.
Nobody's gonna stop doing it, though. A part of the price of being at the top? Considering what else they've had to do and sacrifice to get there, do you think the fact that they're being discussed all over the Internet is that important to them?

[jon]

I meant innosent gossip, like news about romances, new partnerships, break ups and so on. It is so exciting like reading a good book. Besides, do you know with whom Beata is dancing now?

I'll give you "new partnerships" since that's intrinsically public knowledge, but the others are exactly the opposite of "innocent". If someone wants you to know who they're dating, they'll tell you. If someone wants you to know whether or why they broke up, they'll tell you. If someone wants you to pass on what they've told you, they'll tell you. If not, what you're doing is spreading innuendo and assumptions that are actively harmful to the people involved, since that gossip will affect how other people relate to the targets.

Maybe for people who have no lives of their own, hearing falsehoods about other people's personal lives is "exciting".

[SDsalsaguy]

My guess is that for because the best is in Argentina reading up on various goings on is a way to vicariously be involved in the "scene" and that nothing malicious was intended. That being said, the DF has elected not to be part of the cycles of idle speculation and personal gossip that do not serve any productive purpose.

[the best]

I consider rumors published in different magazines about moviie stars and politicians to be very harmful for them. Likewise about ballroom dancers. However, people are curious and love to read it. I like to read it too, even though I don't know those people. For me they are abstract - like characters in the book, just thrilling. Yes, of course they are real for themselves but not for me.

[contracheck]

Besides, do you know with whom Beata is dancing now?
Louis van Amstel

[DancingJools]

Not to get into an argument, but I am not sure at all that the above is correct.

[pygmalion]

Thanks, Jools. 8)

I consider rumors published in different magazines about moviie stars and politicians to be very harmful for them. Likewise about ballroom dancers. However, people are curious and love to read it. I like to read it too, even though I don't know those people. For me they are abstract - like characters in the book, just thrilling. Yes, of course they are real for themselves but not for me.


Yeah, the best. I think that's how it is for a lot of people. "Stars" dance or otherwise, are just abstract to us. But they are people, too. Yes, by becoming public figures, I guess they know they're giving up a certain amount of their privacy. *shrug*

To me, it doesn't mean they give up their right to privacy. It means that a lot of their public chooses not to respect their right to privacy. As a viewing public, I think it's only natural to be curious. And, to an extent, we have a "right" to know things, such as shifting partnerships, etc. But, in my mind, there has to be a balance that shares readily available information while respecting these people and their human need for a safe life, free of unwanted intrusion. :?

[jon]

But, in my mind, there has to be a balance that shares readily available information while respecting these people and their human need for a safe life, free of unwanted intrusion. :?

I tend to react particularly strongly to gossipers because I'm subject to them myself at the moment. Just recently some woman I barely know, and dance with perhaps once/week, had the temerity to ask me "so, where's your <size> <color of hair> friend?" for the Nth time, referring to someone whom I dance with a lot and about whom this person asks far too many questions. Tired of being noncommital, I outright told her I valued my privacy and didn't want to talk about personal matters. Whereupon she acted all hurt and said she was "just teasing" and retreated in confusion.

Of course it will probably just incite her to start even more gossip, because if I reacted that way, surely it meant something about the state of the hypothetical "relationship" I was having with my "friend", rather than being in reaction to the annoying questioner and her arrogant assumptions, right?

[pygmalion]

Yeah, jon. People don't reserve their gossiping ways for the ballroom elite (which, for some reason, I assume you're not even though I have no idea who you are ... :? ) edit: Maybe it's because it's obvious to me you're a scientist that I assume you're not a dance pro. Not sure. :? 8)

Gossip often (almost always, IMO) hurts the object of the gossip. I wonder what would happen if people who gossip understood the impact of their actions. Would they stop? :?

[jon]

I'm just a random social dancer. Not a teacher, not a competitor, not interested. But fed up with people who think my life is any of their business simply because we share a dance floor occasionally.

[pygmalion]

Yeah. IMO, the gossip is almost always unnecessary, and quite often hurtful, regardless of the object thereof. IIRC, that's why I started this thread. Somebody (whom I don't remember) started a gossip thread and I got fed up. :oops: :lol: :lol:



And, btw, I wasn't asking about your identity, jon ... or anyone else's. Just for the record, I'll know about you whatever you want me to. Period. End of story. I don't pry. 8) :friend:

[jon]

And, btw, I wasn't asking about your identity, jon ... or anyone else's. Just for the record, I'll know about you whatever you want me to. Period. End of story. I don't pry. 8) :friend:

Oh. Oops, my bad. The "fed up" comment wasn't directed at you, at all, but I see how it could be read that way now.

[pygmalion]

I didn't take offense at all, jon. It's all good. :D

Sorry to hear about the nonsense you're living with these days, though. Sometimes, the in-studio gossip among/about students can be just as bad as the gossip about the "stars."

I lived through an of that episode once. I was making friends -- just friends -- with a fellow student. Unfortunately for me, I didn't realize that one of the other females in the studio had decided to pursue him romantically. Sheesh! I was the object of some pretty nasty gossip and exclusionary stuff for a few months. It cooled down after he told her to buzz off and that he wasn't interested.

Eh. I thought it was funny. Really annoying, but funny. What the lady didn't realize was that, if he'd wanted her, nothing I could have done would change that. He just didn't want her. Ha! :twisted: (Petty old witch, aren't I? :twisted: :lol: )

[Laura]

So, when does life stop being like high school?

[randomMysh]

Actually, that kind of gossip is often the only thing that lets people know what other people are thinking/saying behind their backs about them. There was a time when people assumed I was dating my dance partner, simply because I danced with him, and someone who knew that he had a girlfriend got confused and kind of asked me what's up with that. :shock: Needless to say I immediately sent the correct information back 'round the local gossip circle. Yikes!

[pygmalion]

So, when does life stop being like high school?

I'm beginning to think it stays like high school and just recycles over and over. The people in my scenario were thirty and forty-somethings. You'd think they would know better. :?

[DancingMommy]

Yeah no kidding. I've been on the receiving end of it too when I taught. UGH!