How much touch is too much?

[pygmalion]

Just curious, folks. How much touch is too much, when it comes to dancing? How do you draw the line between appropriate touch and sexual touch? Teacher/student relationships or any sort of non-romantic relationship makes tocuh an iffy proposition. How/where do you draw the line?

[tsb]

Just curious, folks. How much touch is too much, when it comes to dancing? How do you draw the line between appropriate touch and sexual touch? Teacher/student relationships or any sort of non-romantic relationship makes tocuh an iffy proposition. How/where do you draw the line?

every person has their own personal standard. while i personally feel that people should expect certain contact based on the dance involved & not be freaked by it, i've stepped on enough land mines to learn certain techniques to gauge a partner's comfort level in terms of contact, particularly for salsa & merengue.

in general, asides from touching the naughty bits, i have found through experience and discussion that followers are more likely to be creeped out by too light a touch (in my case a consequence of being too careful) vs. a firm placement of the hand.

[pygmalion]

I've gotten pretty used to getting touched by dance teachers, but I've had a few freak out moments. Like the former teacher who actually SPOONED me during a dance lesson. I'm not kidding. Very casually, of course, while working on some hip movement or the other. I know spooning when I feel it. That goes just a bit too far for my taste.

[tsb]

I've gotten pretty used to getting touched by dance teachers, but I've had a few freak out moments. Like the former teacher who actually SPOONED me during a dance lesson. I'm not kidding. Very casually, of course, while working on some hip movement or the other. I know spooning when I feel it. That goes just a bit too far for my taste.


i know some salseras who are now reluctant to turn their backs on their partner.

and i'm glad to hear that it's now a "former" teacher. :D

i had a salsa teacher who choreographed a move that involved doing a connected (front to back) simultaneous hip roll, followed by a chest bump that was supposed to convey the same impact as a hip thrust. oddly enough, it was a couple of the guys who were clearly the most uncomfortable people in the room but unwilling to speak up, so i said sotta voce in the thickest drawl i could muster: "we din't do stuff lak this growin' up in uh-HI-ya (ohio, which is where i'm from originally)" the teacher consequently modified the move so we were standing off center to each other.

[Sagitta]

When you dance with someone who does not quite know what they are doing it sometimes instead of getting the sensual dance movement (e.g. bachata) you get the sex bump/grind/ spoon version. I just try to guide the follow into the right sort of motion.

[msc]

It's a tough question. On the one hand, obviously it's just crude to grope. On the other hand, if your really connected with your partner, and you've got the whole lead-follow from the body thing down, even if there's no accidental contact, the feeling will be I-N-T-E-N-S-E, especially in the ballroom dances. Much more so, in my opinion, that the feelings generated by simple touches, no matter where those touches might be.

So the question, especially for more advanced dancers, might be "How much connection is too much connection?"

[Vin]

This is from a leaders viewpoint of course.
Usually I try and stay with a respectful but acceptable amount of contact. If the woman I am dancing with has a problem with me holding her hand or getting into a closed position with her I just won't dance with her again. I have danced with women who resisted getting into a closed position in salsa. On the other hand a couple of times my hand has accidently touched a breast, the women realize it is an accident(at least on my part) and we smile have a quick laugh and keep dancing without missing a beat.
So I really think it depends on the partner and the dance, in general I think that the following should be "open" regardless of dance and who you are dancing with.
hands,arms, shoulders, upper portion of the back
With comfort and an understanding I will move on to moves that require a little more sexiness.

[Vince A]

As a follower, you should be aware of what is and what is not appropriate, just as if you should know how far someone "can go" with you out on a date.

Obviously, if you look at the leader, and he looks "happy to see you," or has a roll of quarters in his pocket, or has drool all over the front of his shirt, then you should know that his "accidental" feel was not that. Your recourse should be to punch his damn lights out.

Many times with my Pro, I did un-intentionally grab a boob or two, or might have slid a hand around her derriere, but believe me, my intent was on competing/dancing, and the farthest thing from my mind was "SEX."

Now, on the other hand, if you are out on the town at a dance bar, etc., and you are out for a one-night stand . . . who cares what either one of you are doing . . .

[NeoDevin]

Now, on the other hand, if you are out on the town at a dance bar, etc., and you are out for a one-night stand . . . who cares what either one of you are doing . . .

Ladies... Come to the clubs around here for that sort of thing, and let me know when you're going to be there.

:D :wink: :ladiesma:


(must escape before they beat me)
:car:

[pygmalion]

Hi Vince! :D

You got to this thread before I did. and I think you make an important distinction. Out in a bar dancing with strangers (or even friends) is a heck of a lot different than being in a dance lesson.

The teacher I mentioned with the spooning was out of line, and his behavior was deliberate -- I know, because, first of all, spooning with full derriere to front contact is hard to do accidentally. And it happened exactly twice -- in two consecutive lessons. (Before my .. um.. reaction let him know that wasn't okay.)

But spooning happens all the time in night clubs. People do it, and it's not just sicko men out on the prowl who initiate the contact.

I guess the bottom line for me has become to be aware of the moment when I get uncomfortable, figure out why, and confront the person if I need to. Lots of accidental touches happen, and are generally very brief and followed by an embarrassed apology. If the touch is not brief and/or no apology is given, I get suspicious.

[Vince A]

Hiya again, Jenn,

I think the line has to be drawn by you and only you. Some people believe that a casual feel or grope, IS part of the mating ritual. It has to be a two-way street . . . so, if it happens to you, you need to immediately issue a warning . . . in your choice of ways to do just that. If you are going to let it go, then you have just given the go-ahead signal.

I'm sure you can ask those who do "dirty dancing," (like d nice) that even that dance can be very, very provocative and intense, yet we can keep the dance very clean. Any dance can be made dirty, but then, it depends on who you are with, where you are, and what your intent is following the dancing . . .

[pygmalion]

Yes, Vince. I do dirty dancing -- or, as my (so to be former :cry: ) coach calls it, booty dancing. That's my favorite sort of dancing. It's a big time sexual pantomime (hope I'm not offending anyone here), but very little touch has to be involved. You can make it sleazy if you want, but you don't have to. The ripples, isolations, hip rolls, etc, make it LOOK sexual. But it's not. It's really just a way of expressing myself. And you can believe I know how to set limits with the guys who don't know the difference. Mostly, I only do club freestyle dirty dancing with guys/friends I already know, who know I'm a .. um.. "hottie" dancer who has no desire to be picked up.

[pygmalion]

Um. edit. Vince. I'm thinking you were probably saying indirectly that I should have stopped the spooning teacher the first time. You're right. But things happen quickly, sort of, and I questioned myself. I didn't want to overreact to an innocent mistake. It was only when it happened the second time that I was sure he was being a jerk. Then I made a scene! The first time, I wondered if it was an accident (even though I knew it couldn't possibly be)

[NeoDevin]

Unwanted spooning is why you have elbows ;)

[pygmalion]

Or the ability to ripple away from the predator in question. Or I think boriken moon walks. Whatever. Just get away from the unwanted spooner. :shock: :lol: 8)

[NeoDevin]

But using your elbows is more fun

[pygmalion]

Using the elbows is more fun, but I want to get another dance! :shock: :lol: Funny thing -- If you injure one partner, it's a lot harder to get another. So rippling or moonwalking works for me! :lol: :lol:

[NeoDevin]

Ok, have it your way. I tell you though, if a guy ever does that to me, he's getting my elbow!

[Vince A]

Using the elbows is more fun, but I want to get another dance! :shock: :lol: Funny thing -- If you injure one partner, it's a lot harder to get another. So rippling or moonwalking works for me! :lol: :lol:
You are very wise, Grasshopper. You have grasped the ways that will allow you to continue to grow as a dancer and still be a woman!

Wise, very wise . . .

[SDsalsaguy]

Or I think boriken moon walks.
I wouldn't recomend this tactic if your objective is getting away from the spooner... :?

Now if you happen to like the person in question, well... :lol:

[Swing Kitten]

shortening the frame is a way a follow can have her say about proximity while communicating in the context of dance. That is... engage the frame sooner as to reach it's limit before the end of the comfort zone. I figure it's far more important to remain happy and comfortable even at the cost of perhaps not following the lead exactly. A jerk can still be a jerk and be forceful and such-- but they are the exception and not the rule.

[pygmalion]

I think msc raised an interesting point about closed position and body contact as well. Where does one draw the line in terms of that sort of touch -- the unavoidable kind.

[Swing Kitten]

shortening the frame is for closed position... the follow has a say in the closeness of the torsos...

... so are we talking about wandering hands?