What Makes a Champion?

[SDsalsaguy]

I was responding to a different thread (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1889) earlier today and realized that one of the qualities that I think helps make a champion is recognition of one’s own limitations. The particular scenario I was commenting on had to do with ballroom and salsa…how a couple of national ballroom champions, from different countries and dancing different ballroom styles, have told me that they don’t “know” salsa. Now obviously if you take a dancer of this caliber, and one who is used to partnered dancing, and give them some music they can do something that the average lay person would, no doubt, be blown away by. Yet these same champions well recognize that their rendition lacks a deeper understanding, familiarity, and fluency with a different dance form.

The more I’ve mulled this over, the more I am convinced that it is this same recognition of their own limitations that is one of the keys to why these individuals became champions. Now this is just off the top of my head at the moment, but I’m curious what everyone else here thinks about this…

Whereas ballroom instructor Joe/Shane Shmoe says, “You want to learn salsa? Sure I can teach that” the ballroom champions I mention, who are ultimately probably more competent salsa dancers than Joe/Jane in the first place, are also the ones who are cognizant of their own limitations. Such awareness suggests a couple of things to me: (1) that their ego is in check and does not surpass their competence, and (2) that they *can* learn because they’re not convinced that they already “know.” These two elements, when taken in conjunction with (at least some) ability, dedication, and lots of hard work strike me as foundational (i.e. necessary, not sufficient!) to becoming a champion.

What do you all think? Do you agree? What else makes a champion?

[Vince A]

I'm surprised that this didn't get a good discussion going. It may be difficult for some individuals to imagine themselves as a "champion." But we do "dream," do we not???

I am not a champion, but I am a competitor who has several 1st place overall wins under my belt. I can "visualize" myself as a champion . . . and did! If anyone is to succesfully compete, they should (emphasize the should and not a must) visualize some version of being a champion (winning) in order to really win, place, or show. I would venture to hypothisize that most individuals in dance, or for that matter, any competitive sport, have visualized "winning," or being a "champion" at sometime in their competitive life.

You mentioned two wonderful reasons why champions 'are' cognizant of their own limitations: their ego is in check and they do not surpass their level of competency, and they can still learn, be it a new dance, or going back to basics, or bringing the level of what they already know up a another notch.

You mentioned ability, dedication, and lots of hard work . . . I might add lots of $$$ . . . except for a few who have mommy and daddy around to foot those bills. And a few of the ones that I personally know that have wonderful parents to pay for all those privates . . . are superb dancers . . . they also have big egos . . . and they do not appreciate what was given them. One of them, after nearly 4 years of mega-dollar privates and competitions all over the US, doesn't even dance anymore! Not even socially. I'd give my left . . . *ahem*, arm, to be able to dance half-as-well as that person.

Attitude also comes to mind, but having the right attitude in all situations is merely a daily task . . .

[SDsalsaguy]

Yeah, I was a little surprised this didn't draw some more feedback myself. I don't know, maybe it fell through the cracks?

Anyway, even aside from picturing one's self as some version of a champion, we see also often get to see those who are widely considered to be champions. even as a spectator I find it interesting to grapple with what it is about these people that sets them apart – aside from the aforementioned criteria of ability, dedication, $, etc., that many others, who never become champions, also share.

[Vince A]

. . . I find it interesting to grapple with what it is about these people that sets them apart – aside from the aforementioned criteria of ability, dedication, $, etc., that many others, who never become champions, also share.
Wow . . . you have hit of one of my deep-dark, private ventures-that-still-needs-to-be figured out!

A lot of the questions I ask go toward discovering this. I'm in :shock:

I really cannot believe that you mentioned this. Any chance of adding to your writings?

[SDsalsaguy]

. . . I find it interesting to grapple with what it is about these people that sets them apart – aside from the aforementioned criteria of ability, dedication, $, etc., that many others, who never become champions, also share.

A lot of the questions I ask go toward discovering this. I'm in :shock:

Really? Don't most people (well, competitors at least) wonder about this stuff? I guess I always sort of figured they did . . . but, when I stop to think about it, I guess you may be right. :shock:

I really cannot believe that you mentioned this. Any chance of adding to your writings?
Oh, you can count on it Vince . . . this is definitely something I plan on taking up as I think through my materials and what I want to explain and account for.

[Vince A]

"Something I will help you with, this is . . ."

[pygmalion]

Here's another older thread that never came to closure. Anyone care to comment? :wink: :D

[spatten]

It is interesting SD, how you mention that champions know their own limits.

One of the most interesting comments I have heard from a dancer was made by Andrew Sinkinson. After placing in the final of Blackpool, to my recolection, he said he realized he really didn't know and understand the foxtrot.

If Sinkinson doesn't know the foxtrot, then what the hell do the rest of us know? I guess he intimately recognized his limitations.

Als, my guess is that champions also know their abilities. I have no direct ballroom knowledge of this, but believe it to be true from working with some amazing actors. They seem to have an amazing sense of self and belief in themselves.

Scott

[Warren J. Dew]

The more I’ve mulled this over, the more I am convinced that it is this same recognition of their own limitations that is one of the keys to why these individuals became champions. Now this is just off the top of my head at the moment, but I’m curious what everyone else here thinks about this…
I've noticed this about most world champions, including the ones that get farthest ahead of the field. It makes a lot of sense, since the first step to learning how to be better is the recognition that you don't already know how to be better; the more you recognize your own limitations, the more places you have to improve. Of course, you have to be able to differentiate the changes which are improvements from the changes which are not.

On the other hand, you can get pretty high - maybe even to world championship status sometimes - simply by doing what you already know better. If you have a conviction that you are working on the right thing, it helps you push harder and get farther with it, even if it causes you to reject alternatives that might be more fruitful in the long run.

I've noticed this most in talking to coaches after they've retired. The former world champions are usually willing to explain things and take on the responsibility for showing you why they are telling you the things they are telling you; in my experience, they don't, surprisingly, expect you to just do things their way just because they were world champions. It's the ones that didn't quite make it that seem to want you to do things their way just on their say so - maybe they are still fighting the same battles they were then they were competing.

[pygmalion]

[The former world champions are usually willing to explain things and take on the responsibility for showing you why they are telling you the things they are telling you; in my experience, they don't, surprisingly, expect you to just do things their way just because they were world champions. It's the ones that didn't quite make it that seem to want you to do things their way just on their say so - maybe they are still fighting the same battles they were then they were competing. No comment, except :idea: :roll: