The Mysterious Pachanga...

[ballroomboilergirl]

What IS the pachanga??? It must be the best kept secret on our team, as all of the advanced members claim to know it but refuse to even talk about it with the newcomers, saying that we "aren't ready it" :wink: Its the one dance that was talked about in Dirty Dancing but we never saw; and googling the word "pachanga" comes up with next to nothing. Is the pachanga the new "forbidden dance"?! :x Someone please enlighten me!

[HothouseSalsero]

I have been wondering the same thing. Every decription I read is too vague to help me. (I'm not very good at going from verbal descriptions to imagining a dance though.)

I think we are about 25-30 years late for the pachanga craze.

[Sagitta]

I did not find too much. Basically Pachanga is the dance that is done to charanga music, i.e. Cuban music played using violins and flutes, popular in the 1950s/60s? Anyway you can read the two links I found below.

http://www.webref.org/dance/p/pachanga.htm

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0FXV/n6_v8/21128737/p1/article.jhtml

[vey]

What IS the pachanga???

I am dyiing to know it myself !!!!

And also, what is descarga and boogaloo :?: Or, rather ( I know how they sound), how to dance pachanga, descarga and boogaloo? is it acceptable to do salsa steps or connaisseurs will be offended (much like some people do, when they see others dancing salsa to cumbia music). :?: :?: :?:

[HothouseSalsero]

If it's even half as fun to do as it is to say, it must be fun: PACHANGA!

There is a little glossary of Afro-Carribbean Music Terms in back of the Descarga.com catalog (the 98/99 one anyway--I haven't bought the newest one). They simply define "descarga" as "a jam session, as well as an improvised tune."

For a while I thought that "boogaloo" was strictly a Latino term, but it turns out that African-Americans have been using it for years too, and I think their use came before Latinos picked up on it. It basically just means R&B. From what I've heard from Latino sources, there is no such thing as a "boogaloo" basic step. (Maybe we need a World Boogaloo Foundation?) I don't know if there is particularly style of dancing that African-Americans refer to as "boogaloo."

[MadamSamba]

Hey, BBG. Great topic, I've wondered that for years and just assumed it was a American dance that I had no idea about.

According to one site, Pachanga music is "a hybrid rhythm conceived of elements of both the Merengue and the Conga (Merenconga), which began its song hits in Colombia, Cuba in 1959.

Originally the Pachanga only had seven variations but when mixed with the Cha-Cha (Pachanga-cha) aquired hundreds more. The Pachanga dance replaced the Cha-Cha dance in popularity in the early 1960's." (http://www.streetswing.com/histmain/z3pchnga.htm)

Another site describes the Pachanga as A rhythm style created by Eduardo Davison in Santiago, the capitol of the Oriente province of Cuba. (http://www.mambofello.com/salsa_glossary/glossarypt.htm)

As a dancer, neither explanation answers the question for me, but hey, we're a step closer to knowing what the elusive Pachanga is! :)

[Sagitta]

I remember reading somewhere that boogaloo is music derived from the Cuban son montuno and African blues/jazz.

[HothouseSalsero]

Sagitta, I realize that I forgot to say that in a Latin musical context, boogaloo is music that is (usually anyway) a mix of R&B with Afro-Latin elements. But apparently it also has been used by African-Americans to refer to R&B, without any added Afro-Latin elements.

[HothouseSalsero]

Exhibit A: Boogaloo : The Quintessence of American Popular Music
(http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Boogaloo+%3A+The+Quintessence+of+American+Popula r+Music)

(edited by Sagitta - no commercial links allowed)

[looyenyeo]

Boy, are you guys testing me.

Alright. Before we tackle the pachanga, boogaloo and descarga, there are a few things you should bear in mind:

i. You have asked the equivalent of "what is salsa?" This is an explanation only as I understand it, so please expect there to be significant differences of opinion.

ii. a music style is different from a music type:

A style refers to the instrumentation of a band. A conjunto style/format contains brass esp. trumpet and trombones, and you can get small conjuntos as well as large ones. Compare this with a charanga format that tends to contain flutes and violins instead (but not exclusively e.g. Africando). A more in-depth explanation can be found in "Salsa Guidebook for Piano and Ensemble" by Rebeca Mauleon.

A type refers to the result after every instrument layer is assembled i.e. chachacha, songo, mambo, son montuno

iii. not every music type has a specific dance form associated with it. Many types were extremely transient in nature, and their associated dances were not codified (and therefore not frozen for posterity). However, in some cases, dance movements can be approximated /"reverse-engineered" if you have a knowledge of the context of the period.

iv. a vamp is a repeated pattern of chords (usually between 2-5), with variations. A montuno (piano), or guajeo (violin, guitar family) are examples.


Pachanga
Heavily associated with New York - many places claim to have given birth to it, but most of the recording studios and distribution of music in the 60s were in NYC. The chachacha, mainly interpreted by charanga bands in the 50s, gave way to rock 'n' roll in the 60s (incidentally Fania and its distinctive sound of salsa was born in the 60s). The chachacha made a short-lived resurgence in the form of the Pachanga in the 60s but failed to take hold - hence the pachanga's association with charanga bands. Some people say it's a combination of the words Pacheco (Fania co-founder and flautist) and charanga.

Rhythmically, the congas play a pattern called "a caballo" instead of tumbao moderno. It is also slightly more up-tempo. And as a dance? Hardly any concrete evidence exists. From what I understand of the era, I would personally interpret it as a loose "non-ballroom" mambo, less high on the toes but still light on the feet, with more groove and swing (remember that the Boogaloo era was starting at this time).

I try to nail the accents on the conga in different ways because of the different tones: dry "slaps" on 1 and 3, and low round tone on 4 (excluding clave direction). From a ballroom background, I'd think of it as a cross between a mambo and a deep, groovy swing. On 1 or 2 depending on the alignment of brass with the percussion.

Fruko has some cheeky current-ish pachangas. Fania has some earlier ones.


Boogaloo
Possibly an attempt by Latin music to recapture lost ground from rock 'n' roll, also in the 60s, also mainly in NYC. Simplistically, its salsa and soul. Lyrics could be found in English, vibraphones in the melody, heavy backbeats (2 and 4) sometimes emphasised by hand claps.

Danced light, with a centre of gravity higher from the floor. Hip action is more lateral, swivelling around the vertical axis of the spine because of poorer leverage from the floor. This is closer in mode to inland Colombian styles (another dangerous generalisation). I tend to use rhythmic counterpoint, accenting beats 1 and 3 as the "call (pregon)" and letting the hand-claps in the music "respond (coro)" on 2 and 4.

Some artists (Fania): Joe Cuba, Joe Bataan. Also Sonora Carruseles, La Misma Gente.


Descarga
Lit. "Unload". A word that describes a passage of improvisation by musicians. A solid music/rhythmic framework is established with instrument vamps over percussion. (Usually) single instruments improvise freely and in turn over the course of a descarga. It can form part of, or be the length of a whole song.

You'd probably encounter it in the form of mambo, son, salsa.

Historically, dancers would improvise most at this stage, and the musician-dancer interaction would be at its peak. This phenomenon is diminishing because of a decline in live music. I personally think it's a great skill to have.

Cachao and his descarga sessions are highly recommended listening for students of AfroCuban music. My favourite is "Descarga de la Luz" by Orquesta de la Luz (Please don't shoot me, I'm only the bass player).

Hope this helps,
Loo

[SDsalsaguy]

Wow! Thanks for all of that information Loo!

[Vince A]

I was wondering how many margarita's you all can drink before you fall flat on your derriere . . . not from dancing, but from trying to figure this stuff out???

Most of those dances are new to me, but I do read the topics with a questioning, yet dizzy mind from all the "new" terminology.

WOW! Very informative . . . to say the least . . .

[vey]

looyenyeo

I absolutely love your posts :kissme:

That's exactly the kind of information I was looking for :!: :!: :!:
and now I do not even have to surf the web and read books :D (well, I will have to, but later, when I have more specific questions)

[vey]

Isn't it great to have our own DF expert on latin music theory :!: :!: :!:

I don't know if anybody's interested, but I found "Heavy salsa" CD by Sonora Carruseles very helpful - inside the cover they specify what type of music (I hope I got that right, looyenyeo, type not style) each song is. In addition to salsa they have descargas, pachangas, cumbias, boogaloos.
For example I had no idea (though it does sound different from salsa) that the famous "Michaela" they perform is boogaloo !

[looyenyeo]

Vey, you got the idea of "style" and "type" right on. I think most music people tend to be easy-going about it, so I don't mean to come across as pedantic.

And you're right. Original CD liner notes often yield important information (although the accuracy is only as good as the writer). It's nice to see that Sonora Carruseles finally managed to penetrate the US. That album was originally titled "Al son de los cueros" and had a tough time getting in (about two years, but that's another story).

To recap: If you take chachacha music, replace the tumbao moderno pattern on the congas with "a caballo", speed it up a bit, you get a pachanga... more or less.

"a caballo" or "by horse" is so named because it sounds like the clip-clop of a horse's hooves.

As for dancing it, just get a feel for the context of the times in the mid-late 1960s, and what was around in the latin dance scene in NYC and you'd have a pretty good idea.

If there are any terms or concepts that you feel I haven't clarified properly, please let me know and I'll do my best.

Happy Pachanga-ing

Regards,
Loo

[borikensalsero]

Man Looyenyeo, can I come over your house so you can teach me some stuff and we can talk music all day long. :D :D Well, you can talk music all day long and I can listen.

Pachanga, was a direct invention of Charlie Palmieri and Johnny Pacheco. Many try to claim the pachanga title, however, the first 2 to play such sound anywhere in the world were Pacheco and palmieri. Descarga.com claims it to be an invention in the 50s, however, there really wasn’t anything that sounded pachanga like in the 50s(but many say there really was). Hence, why I believe they mainly mean it as an up and down kind style of playing music, and not the music Pachanga itself. Cañonazo (1964) by Johnny Pacheco actually marks the end of the Charanga Craze in the 60s and the birth of a new sound, what sound I ask. :) . By the mid 60s, it is said that pachanga really hit it big, until the late 60s, where the new sound became Salsa. Pachanga music itself only lasted 3 years on “top of the charts”. I wish I remember the years better. L For unknown reasons it never stuck with mainstream public. There are different thoughts as to what a pachanga can be called. Some say it too is the dance pertaining to charanga, as well as the style created by Palmieri and Pacheco. However, I think, it can’t be the dance to charanga because the basic step taken to a pachanga is unique. [Max Salazar, says it is the dance of charanga, which is what Palmieri said]... Hmmm, I'm confused, charanga and pachanga in my opinion sound differntly.



Pachanga has its own upbeat style of dance. It has a basic step as well, which is very popular as a shine step in NY City clubs, especially by the girls. Mainly, in my opinion of why mainly girls, but a fact of about who, because the first person to ever apply a pachanga step to salsa was one of NY Cities top dancers at the time was a woman. I’ll have to say that a person must really know their music to tell when a pachanga comes on as opposed to a slower salsa. Although they sound differently they are somewhat similar, hence, why DJs everywhere swear they are playing salsa when they bust out a pachanga.

Boogloo… it is the incorporation of Hip hop and Soul to son (If I remember correctly). It was purposely done to attract English America to Afro-Cuban Rhythms. It failed, and I still don’t like boogaloo. I don’t care how many times I listen to it.

About descagra, Loo, let me know if that is the case. Of what I've read, it is said that descarga songs usually had a beginning and a set end. The middle where all pretty much players going wild until they heard the "Q" to come together to end the song.

Think of descarga like dancing salsa there is a basic step and partner work, but then you hear the "Q" by the band that its about to let loose, and you let go of each other and shine solo around the other, bang you got a dance descarga, and why I think it looks so bad to do partner work durning a descarga section in a song. But, hey, how many of use can dance solo more than 5 steps.

[borikensalsero]

looyenyeo

Is this a good spot to ask you for some advise in what to look for to know the difference between a guajira, son montuno, and chacha. I think I finally got it down after listening to a million and one songs the other day, but I'm not confident enough to tell someone what it is that I hear that differentiantes them. :cry:

Any help would be most greatly apreciated. :D :D

[vey]

Loo, Thanks so much!!!

As soon as I get some spare time on my hands, I'm planning to sit down and re-read your posts while listening to the music types in question, so I could actually hear what you're describing. And I'm almost sure I will have more questions :D

[vey]

Pachanga has its own upbeat style of dance. It has a basic step as well, which is very popular as a shine step in NY City clubs, especially by the girls.

Boriken, do you think you can describe this step :?:

[borikensalsero]

Pachanga has its own upbeat style of dance. It has a basic step as well, which is very popular as a shine step in NY City clubs, especially by the girls.

Boriken, do you think you can describe this step :?:

It has a dragging motion of side to side, where you would bring the right together with the left then the same with the right. It has a hopping kind of motion when you shift weight from leg to leg enabling the dragged foot to slide, heel first, towards the opposite foot. A handkerchief was used back then, now we don’t.

Stand with feet shoulder width apart, knees slightly bent to your comfort, place the weight of your body on the right leg lifting the body upwards, then slide the left foot, heel first, towards the right foot, tap it or almost tap it. Slide the left foot back to its original position and place the body’s weight on it, where you use the body to “hop” (upward motion) itself. *NOTE, Let the body back down to original bent position as you slide back to starting position. Repeat the same with the right foot with the left holding the body’s weight.

Hope that helps, in salsa you would use it coming back with the left leg to middle (starting position), then hitting the next 2 or 6 count with the right and start the move. You can either play, weight shifting on the 2 and the 6, or 2 4 6 8. That is assuming you dance on2, where you could come out when the right leg steps again as a back step on a basic and go right into the basic salsa step.

[borikensalsero]

I was checking a search on google with “Pacheco” “pachanga” and one of the sites says that the word pachanga is a fusion of Pachecos name and that music he was playing before the charganga craze was over. Incidentally, the same word is used to mean a party, as they are having a pachanga. I can only assume that the contrast and debate over the charanga dance, or pacheco's new style came from, the “rivalry” of the bands at the time, and possibly the confusion of the meaning of pachanga as party and pacheco’s fusion with the (now old style) music, charanga, that he used to play, hence, "Pach" for Pacheco and "anga" for Charanga, the two mixed together giving birth to the new sound of Pachanga.

[peachexploration]

"Heavy salsa" CD by Sonora Carruseles very helpful...

Yes, they do that on most of their CDs, including the new one which include "La Comay" which is another good boogaloo. Very helpful for the new salsa listener.

[vey]

THANK YOU, BORIKEN :!:

I think I got IT :) (but even if I didn't , I got the general idea )

[HothouseSalsero]

Boogloo… it is the incorporation of Hip hop and Soul to son (If I remember correctly).

Borikensalsero, Hiphop? Hiphop didn't see the light until the late 70's, I thought. I think it's a little anachronistic to refer to 60's boogaloo as incorporating "hiphop." I don't think the term was even around then, and neither was the style, really.

[looyenyeo]

Dear Borikensalsero,

That has got to be the toughest question to date. To tell you the truth, I’m no longer absolutely clear about the distinction between guajira and son montuno. Mainly because what is called a guajira or son montuno now, is different from what it used to be nearly two centuries ago.

Please let me elaborate.

A guajira used to employ the decima form, that is eight syllables per line, ten lines to the verse. The lines of the verse used to be arranged something like: aabbacddcc (I’d have to look that one up to be accurate, but you get the idea). One would have to be a Spanish speaker to be sensitive to it, and being Boricua you are.

Son used to be much more free-form, being the musical newspapers of their day i.e. improvised social commentary over a guajeo vamp. However, the made-up lines would still have to comply with the clave - this is where the art of soneo hails from. Instrumentation was light and portable because the musicians were itinerant: tres, guitar, marimbula, maracas, botija, bongos depending on era. Interestingly, the trovadores singing in son’s early days used to hurl jibes at members of the audience, and it wasn’t considered a good son unless a fight broke out. Son consequently had a bad reputation for a while. In this respect, the Cuban son has parallels with the Puerto Rican plena.

With the modern son being interpreted by bands with different instrumentation, and the relaxing of the guajira’s lyrical structure, you can understand why they are no longer as distinct. I think that the guajira still has a more floral, arpeggiated form than the son.

I haven’t heard very much son matamoros or any other variant, so I can’t define for you the differences between them. If you do know, I’d be interested to hear.

Finally the difference between guajira and son montuno in group 1 and chachacha in group 2. In percussion, there is the concept of implication e.g. musicians must play together in the same clave direction even if the clave is not actually present (all three of the above types would comply with the son clave).

Another rhythm is also present, implied or not. This is the pulse. The pulse of group 1 is once every two beats: 1, 3, 5, 7 and is normally voiced by the bongo bell open tone during the montuno. The pulse of the C3 is every whole beat: 1 through 8 as voiced by the chacha bell (higher pitched than the bongo bell). This gives the C3 a much more pushed feel, but also (for me) dissipates the clave feel (I’ll leave the discussion on rhythmic tension/relaxation for another time).

Most dancers interpret the pulse literally, especially if "on one" or "street two". Very few go on to imply clave in their bodies.

On a side but relevant note:
When I first started dancing the contemporary Latin American dances e.g. salsa, merengue, cumbia, tango argentino, I found myself often baffled by the different rhythms, especially since I’m not Latin American. That is until I could play the congas. In many instances the sounds of the different strokes are hidden under the other instruments, and by learning to play, you train your ear to hear the sounds, and your mind as to where to look for them. I recommend it very much.

I also found it added an extra dimension to my dancing: from being able to stay on beat, whichever beat I wanted (what I describe to my students as first order control of timing); interpreting musical types more effectively (second order); interpreting rhythmic tension and relaxation (third order). All of my dance partners, percussion trained or not, are sensitive to third order interaction i.e. they know that dancing with me is different, most of them just don't know why.

Back on topic:
If you want to hear “a caballo” on the conga, it plays at the start of one of Johnny Pacheco’s renditions of “Acuyuye”, which happily is a pachanga, and has funny lyrics. Well, the bit about the girl spinning anyway.

I'm off to get a life...
Saludos,
Loo

[looyenyeo]

About descagra, Loo, let me know if that is the case. Of what I've read, it is said that descarga songs usually had a beginning and a set end. The middle where all pretty much players going wild until they heard the "Q" to come together to end the song.

Oops, I forgot to reply to this one

A “standard” salsa song nowadays is still sectional. It could go:

Chorus
Section A
Section B
Chorus
Section A
Section B
Chorus
Break
Montuno (including Descarga section)
Break
Chorus

Lots of songs begin with a chorus because it’s more punchy i.e. getting to the meat of the matter.

Descarga:
Opening – where the descarga leader sets the musical theme to be explored. Once the leader feels that the musicians/audience have understood the theme, (s)he cues the entry into the improv section.

Long middle bit – where musicians take turns demonstrating their interpretation of the theme. When the leader: thinks the theme is adequately explored, is bored, needs a drink (see Alegre All Stars), or spots the sax player turning blue, (s)he cues the end.

Ending – reprise of the opening theme to remind the audience what that was all about and/or how marvellous the musicians were.

At least, that's how I remember it.
Descargas make for good encores - well I think there was polite applause the last time I played.
Loo

[brujo]

Interesting link here

http://www.thesalsaguide.com/salsamusic.html

[borikensalsero]

Boogloo… it is the incorporation of Hip hop and Soul to son (If I remember correctly).

Borikensalsero, Hiphop? Hiphop didn't see the light until the late 70's, I thought. I think it's a little anachronistic to refer to 60's boogaloo as incorporating "hiphop." I don't think the term was even around then, and neither was the style, really.

HipHop, is meant as usage to the term hip kind music at the time. Like the hip stuff in music, ala R&B. Thank you very much for the correction. I should have said R&Bs.

[looyenyeo]

Borikensalsero,

I've referenced some texts and music about son montunos. I think that the rhythm line, played on the guitar/tres or piano takes the guajeo/montuno pattern famous associated with Arsenio "El Ciego" Rodriguez.

The vamp is played on the beats: 1, 2, 2+, 3+, 4+, 5+, 6+, 7+, 8+.

I don't believe that sones comply with it.

You can hear this guajeo rhythm in the violin line of "Acuyuye" (just so we don't get off topic).

Loo

[borikensalsero]

Thank you Loo… Thank very very very much. I’ve got a set of too expensive LP Pro bongos for which I’ve been meaning to take percussion classes for. Money is lacking though. I have heard the caballo before a few times. I was actually listening to a salsa the other day and it busted out with the caballo. I was cracking up, It made me think of you.

At least I feel better now, the old stuff I can usually say yeah, guajira, son montuno, cha cha, but the relatively new stuff I say to myself, I need a percussion degree to figure out what these babies are. I really never took into mind that because of the instrumentation the feel will change. I can have tunnel vision at times. The rhythmic stuff definitely helped. I have a jazz player friend who gets mad at me for asking so many questions. He tells me that it can be difficult to explain, but he is the one I ask for musical differences when I try differentiating songs. Lol… he might not know what they are but when he is do explaining their subtle differences, I can say what type the song is. He also tells me that past is pasta, that because the shape changes it doesn’t make them different. lolol

Hmmm, no wonder my dance teacher keeps telling me that Guajira is the Jibaro music (decima) of cuba. And to think of son like plena. That also leads to their lyrical, as in themes.

I’m with you in the son matamorros. I didn’t even connect the son matamorros in the lyrics of the music with its own type. I just wondered what it was, if anything other than a made up term.

Did I say thank you, yet…

I’ve mentioned to my dance instructor that I don’t feel the cha cha as I feel a son montuno. I could Never really pin point why. Now that it started getting in me I don’t think I’ll surely know why, but think it has something to do with the constant cha cha through out the entire song. I don’t see it as giving my body time to ride the music but rather constantly flow with it.

Loo, again, thank you for taking the time to explain some of the implications. When are you moving to NY City so I can take some classes with you? :D :D

I don't think I have acuyeye on my collection. I'll have to go out and buy it. :D More music. 8)

[HothouseSalsero]

Hey, I just bought a CD that includes a pachanga. I was shaking my arms in a funny way while it was playing, so I wanted to see what it was, and it was a pachanga. I think I want to hear more pachanga. This album has a pretty broad range of genres. Not sure what I think of it so far, but I like some of it: Juanito Marquez y Su Combo: Arrimate Pa'ca. I know there are less obscure things I could have bought, but sometimes I like checking out something that isn't particularly well-known in general. I was particularly interested in hearing how electric guitar was used here, though at times it's maybe too "cocktail"ish.