How to be grounded?

[spectator]

Dear all,
looking at your advice in the other threads I totally believe that there will be someone who can help.

Back story and sorry excuses:
When I started learning AT a few years ago I was very underweight (had a chronic illness which has since been treated successfully), at my lowest I weighed 36 kg because I was so small (i'm 5'1") and light my teacher found it very difficult to tell me whether I was grounded (or even explain it) as we danced although I did manage to maintin a presence. She said that it would be difficult for me to imagine as I was so light. In the end we gave up on that part and focused on other things such as balance, posture and connection at practicas. I should say at this point that I am a student, so even with concessions work shops and private lessons have been beyond my financial reach (UK loan system only stretches to a few pounds a week after rent and board).

The present:
I have recently moved to another city and taken up Tango with a different group, I have also put on a lot of weight and am now a normal kind of size so I have found that I don't need to apply as much resistance for a good connection and I want to focus on being grounded. I have been told that I follow very well and that my body position and posture is good, but I have the feeling that there is something missing, although there is a connection with some people, I feel like it's a bit one sided and maybe boring for the lead, as although I can execute the sacadas, vulcadas and boleos it feels a bit empty- it's like a bit shallow? Is this the grounded part being missing?

Is it about pushing down on the floor through your feet all the time? Is it about maintaining your balance so that one foot is always firmly planted? Is it about the position of one's hips? Was I grounded and never knew it?

I'd appreciate any advice as at the moment I'm working from home so I spend a lot of time dancing with a mop to Batanga radio in the kitchen.

Cheers!

[Steve Pastor]

You bring up lots of good issues.
"sacadas, vulcadas and boleos it feels a bit empty- it's a bit shallow?"
Rarely do people do these with any relationship to the music. I'm sure that lots of people think my dancing is boring because I rarely use them. There ARE musical moments when they seem appropriate, but a leader can usually make them happen at any time, and you are doing it just to do it.
It also seems to me that people are attracted to these movements because of how they look, rather than how they feel.

When you get to the point that you can just sit and watch people dance, and really listen to the music rather than be impressed with the movements that people are doing, you will undoubtedly notice that there is a distinct lack of musicality in what you see.
Granted, dancing musically is a lot harder to get than learning a new sequence of steps. But I just don't see that most people even realize that is a place they want to get to .
Maybe you feel more from female leaders for the same reason boys are usually more into sports and "horsing around" than music, dance, and other "arts".

"Is it about pushing down on the floor through your feet all the time? Is it about maintaining your balance so that one foot is always firmly planted? Is it about the position of one's hips? Was I grounded and never knew it? When people have complimented me on my presence was I actually grounded? "

There seem to be many ways to explain "being grounded". The answer to all of these questions is "yes".
When you step, there should be a complete transfer of weight onto that foot, and you should establish your new "axis" or position quickly. If your hips move more than minimally when you do this, or if you bend at the waist, the leader can't feel your weight "going into the ground" as easily, and you have less "presence".
Keeping your weight toward your partner also makes you feel like you are "there". Keeping your posture intact allows him to feel you being connected firmly to the floor through the foot, and leg all of your weight is on.
Over the years I've felt women acquire this feeling, then for some reason unknown to me, lose it. One came back from Buenos Aires with a marvelously assertive step and presence. Within a month she lost it. Beginners often seem to have a better presence than women who have been dancing for a while.
I think most women get the "be on your own axis" message, and forget that tango is a partner dance, and that their partner should feel their every step, and has to always know where their feet are.
Although it's good to be very responsive, it can have disadvantages. Personally, I think that when the woman it "too responsive", and too light, it takes some of the feeling out of the dance.

[Ampster]

S, Hi! :)

Before I attempt an answer (I have a good idea of what to say), I would like some clarifications on a couple of things first.

I have regualr partners who fall into the 4'9" to 5'1" height range, and they hardly weigh anything. I think I know what you're talking about, but I need to be clear...

I have been told that I follow very well and that my body position and posture is good, but I have the feeling that there is something missing, although there is a connection with some people, I feel like it's a bit one sided and maybe boring for the lead

What prompts you to say this? Is there any indication from your lead that would suggest it? Or is it your personal perception?

it feels a bit empty- it's like a bit shallow? Is this the grounded part being missing?

Is it about pushing down on the floor through your feet all the time? Is it about maintaining your balance so that one foot is always firmly planted? Is it about the position of one's hips? Was I grounded and never knew it?


How would you describe "'...a bit shallow,''...it feels a bit empty?'" Is it the lack of that warm, semi-heavy drunk earthy feeling one feels when dancing AT?

[thorn]

You bring up lots of good issues.
"sacadas, vulcadas and boleos it feels a bit empty- it's a bit shallow?"
Rarely do people do these with any relationship to the music. I'm sure that lots of people think my dancing is boring because I rarely use them. There ARE musical moments when they seem appropriate, but a leader can usually make them happen at any time, and you are doing it just to do it.
It also seems to me that people are attracted to these movements because of how they look, rather than how they feel.
......

Very puzzling statement. For example, a well executed and well timed volcada has all the connection, feeling, sensuality, musicality etc that one could possibly ask for. Trust between follow and lead is huge. When I lead them I _always_ do it for the richness of feeling, not the look of the move. No matter what style you dance tango, you can do it poorly or you can do it well. You can do it with or without musicality. You can make the dance empty and shallow or rich and expressive. If you are simply stating that volcadas are difficult to time and to execute well, that could be. But don't complain about them just because they are difficult to lead well.

[Gssh]

[QUOTE]If you are simply stating that volcadas are difficult to time and to execute well, that could be. But don't complain about them just because they are difficult to lead well.[\QUOTE]

Hmm, i am a bit on Steve's side here - i think volcadas are so difficult to lead musically that i don't think i have ever seen them done in a way that gripped me with its musicality. I personally have only one partner where i can pull off flowing into a volcada without any setup and even then even then a volcada takes at least two beats one to get into the hang, one to get out of it again, and while i can extend this timing by making the hang longer, i don' seem to be able to lead them shorter- I loose the a "suspended" feel to them, and they become something ocho cortado like. So in theory they should fit in perfectly with pauses in the music - but i feel more comfortable with pausing there. They don't really have a "snap" to them so they don't work to accentuate a accent that the orchestra is setting. So i usually pull them out when i dance to relativly featureless music , like gotan project - i know they are not going to surprise me, and i don't feel like i am not listening when i simply stick with the baseline and overlay it with some flowery stuff - becausu that mirrors what the band does. I originally thought it volcadas should be fun for vals - doing the swooping thing with swooping music - but i always felt that i didn't go with the basic rythimc structure of it when i was just flowing - i feel that vals is very close to milonga con traspie in what makes it fun - it lives of the syncopation.
Most people i have seen dancing lots of volcadas and colgadas seem to feel the same way - they seem to prefer music that is either relativly featureless (some of the neo tango, non-tango) or that is so complex that it is possible to ignore most of it without loosing anything (some piazzola).
For me setting up this kind of three dimensional puzzle with sacadas, colgadas and volcadas is fun, but i have found that i get engrossed in the connection with my partner and the feel of the moves and loose some of my connection with the music.

I once read on somebodies blog about how he videotaped himself in practice, and afterwards watched himself dance, and found that if he turned off the sound he was not able to tell which song he was dancing to. That story really touched me, and it is now what i am looking for when i think about musicality, and it is very hard for me to think of something that sounds like a volcada.

GSH

[spectator]

S,

What prompts you to say this? Is there any indication from your lead that would suggest it? Or is it your personal perception?


I it's just a feeling I get- no one has actually said anything, but I think sometimes a hint of a movement is given and requires an answer from me that is more than simply taking the step, like perhaps I'm missing out a middle part of the engagement and cutting straight to the chase? Do you think I might have been too light on my feet rather than too light? (That feeling might also be residual from the fact that the first two years I was learning I was ill and felt like crap anyway!)

How would you describe "'...a bit shallow,''...it feels a bit empty?'" Is it the lack of that warm, semi-heavy drunk earthy feeling one feels when dancing AT?

Yeah, I think so, and perhaps also what Steve Pastor said about the musicality of it - I have no argument with Thorn, when you see good dancers incorporating these it can be amazing and enhance the feeling from the music for dancers and watchers, it's just that when I've done it it has felt very up in the air and not quite right and it could be in part due to the difficulty some people have with 'finding themselves' within the music, but it could also be that I'm lacking something because I'm not grounded.

Any ideas for exercises I could try?

[Ampster]

I it's just a feeling I get- no one has actually said anything, but I think sometimes a hint of a movement is given and requires an answer from me that is more than simply taking the step, like perhaps I'm missing out a middle part of the engagement and cutting straight to the chase? Do you think I might have been too light on my feet rather than too light? (That feeling might also be residual from the fact that the first two years I was learning I was ill and felt like crap anyway!)



Yeah, I think so, and perhaps also what Steve Pastor said about the musicality of it - I have no argument with Thorn, when you see good dancers incorporating these it can be amazing and enhance the feeling from the music for dancers and watchers, it's just that when I've done it it has felt very up in the air and not quite right and it could be in part due to the difficulty some people have with 'finding themselves' within the music, but it could also be that I'm lacking something because I'm not grounded.

Any ideas for exercises I could try?


First: It is my opinion and in my experience, height and weight really do not determine the richness of the dance. It's quality of movement, richness of intent, and resolute delivery, that makes the difference. It may very well be that these feelings could have been brought about by your struggling with a past illness. However, by your description (of your volcadas, sacadas, etc.), it seems to negate that.

Second: I also do not think that it's a lack of technical expertise. On the contrary, you're fine!

I would advise you to listen to the music deeply, and move to it. When your lead initiates a movement, it is up to you complete it. So, in the process of delivering your reply to his initiation, feel the rhythm of the music. Feel the melody in your spirit, and let that be a guide to your movements (whatever they may be). Remember, AT is a relationship between leading & following, proposal and acceptance, initiation and completion.

As an exercise, when you're able, play and listen to tango music. Feel the music in your head and in your heart. Try to move to it as you do you daily chores (sweep the floor, type, anything, etc.) Move to it's calling. Try to get in-synch with the music. When you go dancing, transfer that deliberateness into your AT, and see if that made a difference.

Hope that helps.

[Peaches]

Nothing to add here. I'm always being told by my teachers, or other teachers I take a special lesson from, that I need to be more grounded.

I'm still trying to figure out what in bloody hell it's supposed to mean. My teacher tells me that it'll just happen over time if I'm aware of other technique, and one day it'll just feel different and I'll be grounded. He consoles me with the thought that it took him about 5 years to really get it, and he'd been a dancer for years prior to that. I'm not sure that actually makes me feel better.

Anyway, I'm watching this thread intently.

[Ampster]

How on earth did my post turn blue? :confused: