Developing Speed in Latin

[LenaB]

So I'm a slow poke & I think it's about time for a change. I was wondering if anyone had some suggestions for developing speed in Latin. Practice with fast music all the time or practice with slow music first & then move to tempo-dance music? Are there certain songs/artists that anyone recommends for practicing Cha, Rumba, Samba, or Jive to develop speed or improve technique?

It seems that practicing with fast music will get you moving, but my problem is that I can't land things correctly at the proper dance tempos. Am I just impatient & someday this is all going to click or am I don't something wrong? Thanks!

[Brush Tap]

I think for any kind of dancing (latin or smooth)... the key is to work on accuracy and technique first. If you have accuracy, your weight is in the right place at the right time, etc., you will be able to pick up speed fairly quickly. In my opinion, to go the other way (learn "steps" at tempo first then go back and try and relearn accurately is way harder and takes longer to accomplish the same thing).

[Masaya]

I don't really know why but all my coaches are vehemently against dancing to slower music. They tell me that I should practice slowly, without music, and then practice to competition-tempo music. Apparently practicing to slower-speed songs makes you learn things incorrectly.

[mamboqueen]

I don't really know why but all my coaches are vehemently against dancing to slower music. They tell me that I should practice slowly, without music, and then practice to competition-tempo music. Apparently practicing to slower-speed songs makes you learn things incorrectly.

I don't believe that last sentence to be true; I dance to slowed-down music all the time. I dread it....but, I do it. With a smile. Well, not really. :evil:

[samina]

practicing slowly for a time when learning to play an instrument helps, why wouldn't it help with dancing, i wonder?

practicing more quickly than one can manage can also help... as does practicing methodically & without expression... everything has it's place. i'm sure this must transfer to dancing... the nervous system is the nervous system is the nervous system, y'know?

[dTas]

i think practicing slowly is a huge benefit and i mean extremely slow. your body learns about balance and weight transfer when you move slow. when moving fast your body learns about momentum and power.

power is a good thing but is poorly used if balance and control are not applied to it.

to generate speed think of how you can control your power... for example:

you put your hand out in front of you, palm down, and pull it in as fast as you can. then put your hand out in front of you again but this time hold onto something solid like a rail; start to pull your hand back but don't let go and then suddenly let go. your hand moves back much quicker!

now... did you fall back? or did you stand in one place? if you fell back then you didn't control the power. if you stood in one place then you did.

either way your limb moved quicker but one way was correct and the other out of control.

[BM]

Particularly with rumba, speed is not necessarily generated by how quickly you move (though that helps), but how quickly you stop. You could be doing a quick spiral, but if you just twirl until you run out of momentum, then there is no contrast defining your movement. Best of luck!

[LucyDiamond]

I find that my feet need to know what they are doing before I can even think about technique and styling. I like dancing to a slower version of the music while my feet are learning what to do. This way I'm also learning the rhythm of the music also. As my feet become better and better, speeding up the music works great. For, me it takes much less time to learn a routine this way than if I do it slow without music and then jump right into the fast paced music.

[Masaya]

I don't believe that last sentence to be true; I dance to slowed-down music all the time. I dread it....but, I do it. With a smile. Well, not really. :evil:

I thought so too, but... I told my coaches that I can dance well when I dance slowly without music, but have trouble keeping up with comp tempo music (well, except in rumba). I asked them if I should start with slower music and gradually speed it up. They both told me no, and that I should instead spend more time practicing to comp tempo music so that eventually my body will just get used to moving at that speed.

[samina]

I like dancing to a slower version of the music while my feet are learning what to do.

i feel the same way.

my instructor clearly does not. when i was doing latin with him, he'd put on relatively fast music and expect to see the figure executed to it... the lack of speed came out of incorrect use of the feet, he said. "if you use your feet correctly, you will have no trouble getting there..." i find this frustrating, because i want to slow down until it's in my body & THEN speed up. but he helped me understand (conceptually, anyway) for the first time how our movement comes out of the floor... or rather, our pushing against it.

reminds me of what baricchi emphasizes in his DB vids... "a man dances with two ladies... his partner... and the floor"...

[tuftufwang]

I don't think dancing to slow music would hamper your speed improvement ability. Practicing to slow music will force you to think about weight placement more carefully and the best way to transfer from foot to foot with as much as precision as possible and to "dance" your back especially in Latin. If you were to start with normal tempo music right away, you'd most likely develop a tendency to rush through the intermediate steps to get to the destination. For example, you'd be able to get through 2-3-4-1 in a simple rumba walk fairly easily and on time. But the question is whether you can DANCE 2-&-3-4-&&&-1 complete with articulation of the back, hips, and feet. Slowing down the tempo will enable you to really think through the technique first and develop a strong base i.e. strong feet, back, core, balance etc. Of course, when you start dancing to fast music, you'd feel like you are unable to finish all the intermediate movements and your balance is all over the place. However, if the technical fundamentals are strongly grounded in you, you'd be able to develop the strength to better execute clear, precise movements to on tempo music.

For cha-cha - some of Della Reese's songs are slowed down. Latin Jam 8 seems to have 5 practice tracks at the end. I love that "tea for two" remix in that CD.

For Jive - you can actually dance to swing music or foxtrot. "Fever" is a good song to dance to for practice.

[dTas]

I thought so too, but... I told my coaches that I can dance well when I dance slowly without music, but have trouble keeping up with comp tempo music (well, except in rumba). I asked them if I should start with slower music and gradually speed it up. They both told me no, and that I should instead spend more time practicing to comp tempo music so that eventually my body will just get used to moving at that speed.

i have had coaches tell me this as well and i understand why. at least for me they wanted my body (and mind) to get used to the speed of the music and not so much the technique required to dance the dance. the thought here being... if the mind and body can get accustomed to moving that fast then we can start working on making it look better.

and it does work when learning a specific routine. if you get your muscles used to firing at a certain rate in a certain way then it will become more automatic and then you can start working on polishing it.

i like coming at it from the other angle... if my technique is on and i'm moving my body correctly then i can move to any tempo because i'm on balance and controling my power. i like this appproach because i feel it makes me a better overall dancer and more rounded to learn many different routines or individual steps where the other approach makes me really good at one routine.

if one routine is all you need to know then you don't necessarily need to understand all the technique behind the movement. that isn't to say there there's no technique involved... i'm just saying you don't have to completely understand the technique.

[LucyDiamond]

my instructor clearly does not. when i was doing latin with him, he'd put on relatively fast music and expect to see the figure executed to it... the lack of speed came out of incorrect use of the feet, he said. "if you use your feet correctly, you will have no trouble getting there..." i find this frustrating, because i want to slow down until it's in my body & THEN speed up. but he helped me understand (conceptually, anyway) for the first time how our movement comes out of the floor... or rather, our pushing against it.
For our cha cha routine, I had the same conflict with my pro and I found trying to learn it very frustrating. I talked with him explaining that I'd like to bring in the same songer, edited to a slower speed, to which he (thankfully) agreed. The software I have does a very good job of slowing down and speeding up music without changing the pitch. I made 2 version, one at 96% of full speed and one at 98%. Even though the difference in time between the 100% version [3:18] and the 96% version [3:26] is only 8 seconds, it made a WORLD of DIFFERENCE in the speed at which my feet learned the routine. Also, the version you saw us dance was at the 98% level and I doubt you could tell it was a slower version from the original. I'm now up to 100% and my feet are very comfortable with the choreography. Now, if only the rest of my body would follow suite... ;)

I was first introduced to this technique in my tap classes (which I've been taking 10 years) and have found it VERY HELPFUL over the years. Whenever we are learning a new sequence, the teacher most always plays the music at a slow speed for a few tries. Then, it's up to regular speed and we all do so much better and learn it so much faster.

I think pro teachers need to realize the people (especially adults) learn in different ways and shouldn't discount a particular method that may not have been the best for them.

Paula

[Masaya]

I think a specific example for me was that, because I spent a lot of time practicing slowly, my cha cha started to look like a rumba, despite the fact that there are subtle differences in technique between the dances (like hip action, amount of settling, lightness of feet etc.). Obviously it's not possible to do proper rumba to cha cha music, so I used to have a lot of trouble keeping up with the music.

[delamusica]

I think a specific example for me was that, because I spent a lot of time practicing slowly, my cha cha started to look like a rumba, despite the fact that there are subtle differences in technique between the dances (like hip action, amount of settling, lightness of feet etc.). Obviously it's not possible to do proper rumba to cha cha music, so I used to have a lot of trouble keeping up with the music.

I think the trick is to not ALWAYS practice it slowly.

When my partner and I were learning routines like cha-cha and jive, we would always start slow. But as soon as it was comfortable, we'd speed up the music a touch, rehearse till it was comfortable, speed up the music a touch. Sure, sometimes the pitch sounded funny. Whatever. And we'd always begin and end each rehearsal with a full-speed run-through to stay in touch with how it felt at tempo.

Doing this really helped us to stay clean in our footwork and lines.

Also, when dancing slowly, be sure to stay crisp. Hit your lines at the front of the beat, dont move your foot to the next step until the last possible second, etc.

Crisp does not equal fast. Maybe your dancing too smoothly at the slow tempo to easily make the transition to the fast tempo?


Hope some of this made sense/helps. Good luck!

[mamboqueen]

I thought so too, but... I told my coaches that I can dance well when I dance slowly without music, but have trouble keeping up with comp tempo music (well, except in rumba). I asked them if I should start with slower music and gradually speed it up. They both told me no, and that I should instead spend more time practicing to comp tempo music so that eventually my body will just get used to moving at that speed.

Well, I guess my train of thought is that if you can do it correctly slowly, you can do it when the music speeds up. You may have the issue I have been having, and that's not getting fully over my leg and into my hip (dreadful for me in cha which, due to the speed, demands it). I have also found that when practicing turns (let's say step turns), the more over and "into" my leg I am, the faster I can turn.

As dtas alluded to, your balance will develop quicker/better if you're able to do things slowly and not rely on momentum.

*disclaimer* I'm just passing on what has worked for me lately. You should consult your physician (errr...instructor) before you start any new program ;)

[mamboqueen]

I to "dance" your back especially in Latin. If you were to start with normal tempo music right away, you'd most likely develop a tendency to rush through the intermediate steps to get to the destination. For example, you'd be able to get through 2-3-4-1 in a simple rumba walk fairly easily and on time. But the question is whether you can DANCE 2-&-3-4-&&&-1 complete with articulation of the back, hips, and feet. Slowing down the tempo will enable you to really think through the technique first and develop a strong base i.e. strong feet, back, core, balance etc.

Excellent stuff, Tuf Tuf! And you are right on the money. Before I even knew I was supposed to be using my lats and abdomen/ribcage, I would just do what you said and rush through it without any body action (and distinctiveness) at all. When I finally saw peeps in my category using their bodies, I had to ask about it and that's what I have been putting a lot of focus on. And it's *much* easier to train your body while moving slowly and isolate the parts of the body that generate the movement. You know, when I practice rumba walks I completely forget about using my back half the time...even when I'm going slowly. Then it'll dawn on me *zoiks*....the lats!

[dTas]

i agree... the lats!

[xxtupikxx]

Foot speed in latin is largely a consequence of proper weight movement and proper understanding of timing. To develop speed i would practice drills with or without music. Rumba foot speed drills revolve around progressing from what is somestimes termed as foot positions A, B anc C and only then bending and relaxing the foot to arrive in to position A on the other leg. You have a 1/4 of beat to move the foot, but this becomes easy to achive once you realize how to Move Your Weight Ahead Of The Foot.

[elisedance]

Hi all,

Here's a new angle recommended by my instructor that I wondered if any of you have tried: to improve leg speed, practice with ankle weights. While not replacing any of the excellent advice above, this both helps critical muscle strength and speed.

[White Chacha]

Arguing purely from the physics of the situation, adding mass at your ankles is a good way to slow you down. I'd think there could be harmful side effects from this as well.

[Twilight_Elena]

Arguing purely from the physics of the situation, adding mass at your ankles is a good way to slow you down. I'd think there could be harmful side effects from this as well.

Agreed. I think injury is very possible.
However, the strengthening the ankles part is a good point. There are safe ways to strengthen the ankles, and since strong ankles lead to good balance and alignment it would make sense that it would help with speed.

T_E

[chica latina]

If what you are thinking about is foot speed, think about relaxing your thighs and using your feet and ankles. I guess you can look at it as flicking from below your knee and then transferring your weight. Your foot has to alwyas be there before you even begin to transfer weight. A common misconception is that using more muscle will make you faster, when in reality it will slow you down. I hope this helps. Practicing with slow music is definetly the way to go and then gradually speed up as your body gets the mechanics down, but if what your are trying to do now is develop foot speed, don't worry about Lats yet. It is all about learning in layers.

[Peaches]

I thought so too, but... I told my coaches that I can dance well when I dance slowly without music, but have trouble keeping up with comp tempo music (well, except in rumba). I asked them if I should start with slower music and gradually speed it up. They both told me no, and that I should instead spend more time practicing to comp tempo music so that eventually my body will just get used to moving at that speed.
Maybe it's different with music than with dance. But it seems as though you need to get the movements down, correctly, first. And slow is good for that, for developing the control and the precision.

IME, the way to get faster and get used to faster tempos is not to just put on fast music and try to move correctly. The technique I know of for music is called "metronome marching." You start slow and do everything as precisely as possible. Then you put the metronome a click faster and do it all again. Lather, rinse, repeat. Ideally, you get your tempo up to faster than what it's actually supposed to be, so that when you do it at the correct tempo, it feels nice and slow. But, if you do metronome marching, the increase is so gradual that you can get very fast without really feeling too much of a difference.

[Chris Stratton]

Arguing purely from the physics of the situation, adding mass at your ankles is a good way to slow you down. I'd think there could be harmful side effects from this as well.

The recommendation was to practice with the ankle weights. When you then take them off, you might reasonably expect to find it easier to meet timing.

Don't know if it works though.

[dTas]

well here's something new... try doing the cha cha in a swimming pool or in deep sand.

[liangjz]

One problem I've seen a lot in myself and others is understanding what movements are part of what steps. If you're slow, it could be because you're blurring your steps. That is, one foot (or maybe your body) is still in the process of one step while your legs are moving to your next step. It makes the step slow because the rest of you has to catch up.

Take spot turns to your left in cha as an example. Many people who have trouble with speed in spot turns(left) don't turn their body to the left too early. Then they step, but don't wait for their body weight to go to their right foot before turning back to their partner. This puts different parts of their body on off timings and makes it harder for the crisp movements associated with that fast look in latin dancing.

[Twilight_Elena]

well here's something new... try doing the cha cha in a swimming pool or in deep sand.

Hah. That's actually a pretty cool idea. I was told to walk on sand with my feet curved to get that ballet arch I've always dreamed of having.

T_E

[liz]

I have been told that what makes you look slow is that you have to have the head snap. then, another thing that makes you look slow is not finishing the step and running the next into eachother... Clarity of each step... my problem is finding the right amount of energy to put in turns..
about the slow music, I am trying everything. I guess is you practice to slower music then at a comp. when you are nervous you will be able not to be to fast... that is my problem, nerves start and I just get faster and faster...

[mamboqueen]

heh...I'm with you Liz. The 1.5 minute dance becomes one long move. I am looking forward to the moment where I can play around with timing more so things look a little more interesting. Unfortunately, retirement might come sooner!

[sargenta]

I have been told that what makes you look slow is that you have to have the head snap.

In his book, Winkelhuis mentions "looking to the future" as one way of giving "fastness" to your dance. He says that, if you give an indication with your eyes (or your head) of what your next move is going to be, the outside impression is that you move faster. Of course, he expresses it all in a much clearer way :D:D!

[liangjz]

I just noticed yesterday that, in Samba, my instruction often bends his knee less than mine when doing cruzados. This let him come out of the steps much faster.(Well, that and the fact the he's just better)

Anyway, as a general rule, it's worth reanalyzing each step you take to see if you're doing anything excessively. Too much lower, too much rise, too big of a step..