Salsa Fix - The Day After...

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

Hi!

I’m sure all of us have had that exceptional dance with a lady that causes us to fall into a state of nirvana. Weeks later, we keep reliving that dance over and over in our minds and a smile of satisfaction appears on our face. Rewinding our brain in order to feel that special 4 minute moment we had with that salsera, that place of complete bliss we were taken to and want to go back to.

Unfortunately this does not happen everytime we go to a salsa club. If it did, I would probably quit my day job and just dance for the rest of my life (just kidding). :wink:

When this first started to happen, the first thing that I would do was either ask her to dance again on that very night or the next time I’d meet her in a club.

Recently, I have been reluctant to ask these girls to dance again. Usually only after 1 or 2 months do I feel like asking them again. Why? Well to be honest, I feel that during that dance we accomplished something great. A masterpiece created by two people, something very close to perfection. To dance with her again on the same night or the night after, would probably be a disappointment. Even though the second time is usually quite good also, it is far from being that fabulous experience you had with her before.

In short, I guess it’s because I want to keep the moment in my mind as long as possible without it be cluttered with the second not-so-good experience. I know this seems odd, but does anyone else purposely create a “delay” after a salsa fix, or should I be in a mental institution?

Regards,

[TheArchon]

:shock: :?

I really dont understand you, mostly you dance with yourself in Salsa, you choose the moves, the song decide the rythem, and hopefully the girl wont put to much resistance, or to little(so i dont really wanna dance with myself), and that she doesnt have rubber shoes...

I usually choose my partners for their look, for the first time(if i really like them i will probably try to date them), and in the second time, if i like dancing with them(the resistance factor), but nothing special there, casue i didn't liked her enough to date her...

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

Hi Archon!

I think that I probably didn’t explain myself well enough. I wasn’t talking about liking the girl in a romantic way. I was talking about having a great “dance” experience with a girl (any girl). It’s hard to explain - only if you’ve experienced the same thing can you understand what I mean.

Regards,

[TheArchon]

I did understand you, and answered.

If you are a girl, i can understand what is a great dance experiance(not really, but i can visualize), if someone is a great dancer and her knows how to move a girl, she can have a great experiance.

But since we choose what to do, and the girl only comply(hopefully), i dont see your point in a great dance with someone, she doesnt moves you, she doesnt choose your rytheme.

Enlighten me, how can a girl gives you a great dance experiance?(beside one that looks great) :?:

[borikensalsero]

To clarify...

TheArchon. This is my take on MapleLeaf Salsero. He is not talking about anything skin deep that can be seen with the eyes of a bystander. He is talking about something deeper than skin that was achieved during a dance. The easiest thing in mind to come to explain that difference is that of liking someone and loving someone. While they are both good, liking is never going to make you reach the nirvana that love does. Sex turns into love making, words turn to poetry, the imperfection of a person is a perfection, and the two of you have ceased to be two individuals and become one.

Hence, when he goes out dancing and finds that spark on someone that takes the dance beyond physical means and transcends it to that of absolute love, he reaches nirvana and does not want to ruin it by dancing again. He wants to savor that memory as long as he can. Kind of like when you first kiss the love of your life, you’ll sit there and replay the moment over and over and over in your head. To each time hope that you feel the same way, with the fear that it might not.

Ultimately why salsa is so addicting. You can find love from the cookie monster in the next garbage can. All you have to do is be there and let your soul take you there.

[borikensalsero]

Now, I have to say, welcome to the wonderful world of soul-salsa MapleLeaf. I must admit that since my first occurance 2 years ago, it has been easier and easier to reach nirvana when dancing. In a night, if the DJ plays 20 absolutely great songs, all 20 of them will enlighten my soul. Now, when the DJ doesn't, I'll fall flat on my face and try to push my soul to peak out just a tad, so I can, at least, dance with someone with out looking like I want no part of that song.

Besides that, I will have to say that it has more to do with you than her. She is only making it easier for you to allow nirvana to take over. She has the spark too, and when two dancers dance with the soul a spark is generated even from across the room. You don't have to dance with her to know what she feels, nor be in nirvana, you will automatically be there just by watching the dancer. Its a passion that out reaches the walls. You can sense it just by walking into the room. But make no mistake, enjoyment also disguises itself as passion, and if you happen to come across that dancer and dance with them, you’ll be in total dissatisfaction and leave the night wishing you really never asked her to dance.

Not because she wasn’t a good dancer, but because you were fooled into thinking that there was passion/love there, when in reality there was only a big LIKE in her dance. It’s happened to me and I’ve been devastated to touch the girl and feel there is absolutely nothing there. I must admit that it feels like being broken-hearted. It can destroy how you see her dancing again, but you will notice the difference in her aura, something your passion didn’t allow you to see the first time. :cry: There is nothing worse than the anticipation of something great to succumb to a lifeless dance. :cry:

[salsachinita]

You can find love from the cookie monster in the next garbage can. All you have to do is be there and let your soul take you there.

:lol: :lol: :lol: This is by far the cutest thing I've ever heard 8) !

*Mental Note to Self: check for cookie monster in garbage cans :wink: *

[borikensalsero]

You can find love from the cookie monster in the next garbage can. All you have to do is be there and let your soul take you there.

:lol: :lol: :lol: This is by far the cutest thing I've ever heard 8) !

*Mental Note to Self: check for cookie monster in garbage cans :wink: *

:bouncy: :tongue:

[salsachinita]

There is nothing worse than the anticipation of something great to succumb to a lifeless dance. :cry:

I can SO relate to this :cry: ! But the need to reach that nirvana is strong enough to make me get back on that horse and give it a try all over again (same applies in love)!

[looyenyeo]

Dear Mapleleaf,

I understand completely what you're on about. I call it "the perfect moment", and it's a poor phrase to describe dance's embodiment of enlightenment.

The question is:
"Would you prefer to hold on to the memory, or risk it for the possibility of creating another?"

I'd take the second option every single time. What is more, I use the memory of it as an incentive to be a better partner, that perhaps it could happen more often, with more different people (and it has).

By all means, wait a respectful period before asking that person for another dance. I find a week nearly too long, which means it's just about right.

As for recreating the feeling, maybe you're trying for it too hard. I've found that if you go out looking for it, you won't find it - the intent alone stops you from building a rapport.

How can I phrase this right... (I'm sorry, I don't mean to preach)

Just enjoy the dance as the dance, and enjoy your partner as your partner. Neither of them can be intentional vehicles for creating the moment, because it'll happen when it happens.

And during the times when it doesn't? Well, I've learned to wait.

Loo

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

Hi again,

I was starting to think that no one understood what I said, that I was speaking some kind of foreign language.

BorikenSalsero put it perfectly. He has been there; he knows what I’m talking about…

I think it’s hard for someone to understand unless they’ve felt it before. How do you explain a tooth ache to someone who has never experienced physical pain...

The question is:
"Would you prefer to hold on to the memory, or risk it for the possibility of creating another?"

Looyenyeo, you have a good point! One or two months is a long time in a salsero’s calender. I think I expect too much after a nirvana like experience. I have to let loose a little bit... Hmm......

Regards,
[/quote]

[peachexploration]

There is nothing worse than the anticipation of something great to succumb to a lifeless dance. :cry:

I can SO relate to this :cry: ! But the need to reach that nirvana is strong enough to make me get back on that horse and give it a try all over again (same applies in love)!
I'm with you on this one Salsachinita! :D

The question is:
"Would you prefer to hold on to the memory, or risk it for the possibility of creating another?"

As a follower, I would say "please, please, please take the risk for the possibility of creating another memory". :) If I felt the same as you at the time we danced, chances are, I'd want to go there with you again. :wink: But not everyone is the same so I know what you mean. The risk of not being able to connect with that person in Salsa as you once had is a little disheartening.

[TheArchon]

I guess i will never understand you, when i dance, i care mostly for the music, if its salsa, or wales or cha cha, or trance. I absorb the rythem the beat, im in control, i dont really care who my partner is at that moment, as long as she dosnt intefere with my dance, i enjoy the dance as long as i enjoy the music.

[Vin]

I understand you here mapleleaf, but I don't understand one aspect. If I have that incredible connection with a person, I want it again and I am sure that it will only get stronger as we learn more about dancing together.

[borikensalsero]

I understand you here mapleleaf, but I don't understand one aspect. If I have that incredible connection with a person, I want it again and I am sure that it will only get stronger as we learn more about dancing together.

There are times that a connection really has nothing to do with the dance itself (physical pleasure), but the meshing of the dancer’s soul. The point where no matter how well the dance goes or doesn't, to the dancers it was incredible.

When dancers reach this point it truly feels as if there is one person dancing, so their mistakes are your mistakes, their best move becomes your best move, their best follow is your best lead, regardless of how well the dance ends being, the connection felt hasn't been one physical but emotional. So better knowing each other has no relevance as to reaching "nirvana".

Example being what people call soul mates. The connection of these individuals is said to be incredible from first sight, however, it doesn't increase with time, what increases with time is their physical awareness of each other. Awareness can include, movement, thoughts, desires and so forth. Basically soul mates get to know each other so well that they can physically know what each other is thinking and feeling. However, the mystical connection hasn't increased nor lessened. It has stay consistent. When the soul takes over the body, there is no stronger emotion that the one felt in total nirvana, it can never increase because it is at its plateau. You have met it, which means, once you have felt unconditional love, as in agapeo, there is no stronger love, there just is, you have bypassed they body and gone to the soul. For a 4 minute period your body stopped feeling and the music went straight into the soul, hence “nirvana”, total ecstasy, dance illumination, etc. The soul is omni present, an omni present blast of energy can not be felt any stronger than what it originally is, the feeling itself is a blast of energy felt by the soul and not the body. If the body and the mind were present then and only then can we speak in terms of measure, when the body is bypassed the ecstasy that my soul feels will be no greater than that you feel or that I will feel again. The only time this happens is when you’ve just tapped into the source for a few seconds and you haven’t given your body time to be in total dance meditation or trance.

[Vin]

Boriken, your words are beautiful, unfortunately for me you speak of intangibles that I don't fully understand.
As far as better knowing each other goes I still stand by what I said, when and if I ever meet a soul-mate, my expectation is that I will be even crazier about her after 20 years than after 20 minutes. Same thing goes for dancing, I have had that great instant connection a few times dancing, only with 2 women whom I dance with regularly however, let me tell you, everytime I dance with those women again the connection feels stronger. The reason being is that I get a better understanding of how she will respond to my lead and she gets a better understanding of how I will respond to her movements and thus we are better able to express ourselves.
The last dance I had with one of these women actually had me saying
"that was the most enjoyable dance I have ever had", I expect the next time I dance with her to be even better. Should I be scared to dance with her again so that I don't ruin the memory of the last time?

[youngsta]

I'm going to take my time with this post because it is a situation I hold dear to my heart. For me the 'fix' signifies the dance has gone from the physical to the spiritual. I equate it to being in the zone in athletic competition. You can never prepare for it; it is not something that can be manufactured. You could experience it with a partner once, and then never again with that same person. All you can do is be willing to give your very soul each time you take a new partner on to the floor. When both give their essence to the dance AND the music sparks exceptional levels of execution the 'fix' is on.

I've only been in that place a few times, but when it happens everything is in slow motion for me. I instinctively know what we are going to execute literally a minute before it happens. It's much like a chess Grandmaster being 15 moves ahead of the actual move he is making. I understand you completely MapleLeaf Salsero! Every night I step on the dance floor I give myself so this can happen. When it does I desire to experience that feeling again as soon as possible! No waiting for me :wink:

[brujo]

I think the big problem here is expectation.

An analogy I read once goes something like this. You are walking down the street and you hear a beautiful song. Your world stops suddenly in front of your eyes. Your heart is beating at the same beat as the music. The lights are brighter. Time stops in front of you as you are engulfed in the music. The song ends and you are left scrambling to find out who the artist is.

Then you hear the same song again, you take down the name, go to the store and buy the record. You play it and it's great. But the earth didn't stop this time around. You listen to the song some more, it's nice, it remind you of that one time that you were engulfed by it. But soon enough, the CD sits in your drawers, never to picked up again.

The difference that the first time this happened, it was an organic, dynamic experience. You weren't expecting it, it just happened. The second time, it became a static experience, a close copy of the real thing, but not quite there. You just can't get too excited about it anymore.

There are many factors that affect a dance. Lighting, attitude, music, floor conditions, people around you, your mood at the time, clothing, confort level with each other, eye contact, etc. You expect to reproduce some of it and you think that asking her to dance again will bring back this fleeting experience. But you can't reproduce that moment in time that was perfect.

But I think we all keep coming back trying to chase fragments of this perfection every night that we go out. Here is some practical advice that I found helps from my clubbing experience:

A) Dance with as many people as possible. The problem with dancing clickes is that soon enough, everything becomes part of the routine.

B) Try different dances. I recently had an amazing experience dancing merengue where she and I just clicked and we were goofing off and having a great time. With salsa and the dances that we constantly practice and try to get good at is that we've seen all the moves and it doesn't excite us anymore. I remember the first time I saw the Taina dance company [ http://www.tosalsa.com/videogallery/2003/video_030330nyc_taima.htm ] live. Wow, it blew me away.

C) Don't expect anything. Just because last time was magic, it doesn't mean that it will always be. But just because last time was crap, it doesn't mean that this time it won't be magic.

D) Try different things. A lot of people go into the mistake of thinking the more complex turn patterns, the more moves, the more elaborate the dance, the better the chances are to reach nirvana. This weekend, I dance with a girl, we just did the basic and maybe two right hand turns for the whole song, but the eye contact and the way we flowed in the music made it amazing.

[salsachinita]

Great advise, Brujo :D !

[brujo]

Enlighten me, how can a girl gives you a great dance experiance?(beside one that looks great) :?:

Gives you eye contact and a great smile.
Moves to the music.
It's smooth like butter.
Easy to lead.
Makes up stuff that compliments your dancing. (styling, covers mistakes, stays close)
Watch out for you in the dance floor so you don't bump into someone else.
Great attitude, doesn't feel like you're dancing with a wall.

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

I used to think that partner dancing was simply two people trying to coordinate their movements in a smooth way. If they managed to do this, they would be satisfied with the dance and it would look good to the bystander. I never realised that it could more anything more than physical.

After reaching nirvana for the first time I was completing blown away with the moment. It was like having a mental orgasm (sorry for the analogy). As Boriken mentioned, your souls become one and you are completely oblivious of your surroundings, you have no concept of time and all you can see is the girl’s face in front of you. It is like you came out of coma after 5 years and you start feeling life inside you again.

When you get your salsa fix, it is like reaching “perfection”. However, after the rush, you start thinking “It doesn’t get any better than this”. Therefore, I tell myself that if I dance with her again in the near future, I most likely won’t be able to reach nirvana with her again. So my practical side says, “OK, wait a while, until you have all the ideal conditions for it to happen again”. For instance, I wait for one of my favourite songs to come on, the lighting has to be good, I have to be dancing well that night, she has to be available, etc. You rarely have all these things at the same time, which means you have to wait a certain time before you ask her again.

I’m not a masochist. When I have a fabulous dance experience with my partner, I want to it to happen again as soon as possible. The problem is that I realise it probably won’t happen again in the near future or at least under certain conditions (bad song, crowded room, etc.). I prefer to dance less times with her but with more emotion.

Regards,

[borikensalsero]

There is something we have to point out, that something is the difference between the physical and the meta-physical world.

When our mind is in total control of our surroundings, the first time we feel a strong emotional "shock" it will feel the strongest only because the mind has never known of its existence, so the body responds accordingly by reacting with a greater sense of astonishment, or what other emotion it reacts with. As time passes the emotional charge exuded by the event, in this time song or dance, will not change. What has changed is how our perception of the same event/feeling. It isn't new to the body/mind so it becomes the norm/not as interesting. Hence, why many people confuse infatuation with being in love, then blame falling out of love with, not feeling it any longer or the other person, when in fact it has been our minds that have changed our feelings/views about a given something.

When you feel absolute love/nirvana/illumination whatever other word close to a state of total ecstasy the first time and each and every single time after that the feeling will always be the same. Why, because we have stopped feeling/seeing with the mind and body and gone to the source of all feelings (SOUL) and ultimately one feeling disguised in different forms (total LOVE, or what Christians call a Jesus State like of agapeo, or Buddhists call Nirvana). You have bypassed the physical world and have become the feeling itself. Once you are the feeling itself you will always feel it with the same intensity as if it was the first time, done see because it has been felt through the soul. Anyone who meditates knows that the first time they fall into total meditation, regardless of how many times its done afterwards, or for how long, will always feel the same each consequent time, for a feeling of total love won’t change because it isn’t subject to reason nor feeling.

Worrying about a state of dance nirvana coming from, how much better we dance with someone. How much more we’ll know our partner in dances to come, how many more things we can do to a favorite song, and think that it will allow us to reach a state of ecstasy, we will always mistake infatuation with love. Eventually blame not feeling the same to a song, the music, the partner, the moves, after the “new” label has faded. The soul isn’t aware of time that is the job of the body and mind, to the soul the ecstasy will be forever. A feeling of total love can only be lessened by our minds’ judgment.

Bypass the mind, dance with the soul... Then, the same song will always sound as good as the first time and Not knowing a dancer better won't be the cause to feel better about a the last dance than the first years ago.

[brujo]

Once you are the feeling itself you will always feel it with the same intensity as if it was the first time, done see because it has been felt through the soul.

Boriken, I like your posts. But have you ever sat down and thought about how you got there? A lot of your posts talk about how it feels once you reach nirvana, but I think a lot of us will benefit if you thought about it a bit deeper and also give us practical advice on how to reach there.

Here is what I think. You need three things to reach nirvana : technique, musicality and environment.

Environment is the hardest one to control. Sometimes the floor will be horrible, or the place too packed, or the DJ not good. So I won't go into this. I've found that you can still have really good dances even in really lousy places, it's just a state of mind thing, I guess. But not having to worry about bumping into people definitively helps.

So the big 2.

Technique: I take a lot of lessons with LA style instructors. I've found that while their style seems very restrictive for me, specially when it comes to travelling around the floor, I love their understanding of the body.

Every time I learn a pattern, I try to see how this pattern can be changed. With a lot of moves, you gain a really good understanding about how the man can give signals from one part of his body to the communicate intention to the other person ( hand to shoulder, butt to butt, etc. ). You can also see how to create direction changes within the path of dancing and learn all sorts of wraps and positions that you can both be in. Patterns are great if you use them as mnemonic devices for experimenting on the dance floor, think of them as a periodic table of elements, not rules set in stone.

It was only with the LA style dancers that I've learned about leading with the body and the proper footwork to be a smooth ( not bouncy ) dancer. Of course, since I love cuban + colombian style salsa, when I go dancing, I will try to integrate the things I have learned and really experiment with the way the body works. After a while, you stop worrying about the steps and you see that your body begins to improvise on the way you dance. It is vital that you get a good understanding of how to lead and really connect with the other person.

But it obviously takes time, patience and a thick skin willing to stink it up on the dance floor for a loooong time. Let the rewards and the way the dancers you admire inspire you to keep going.

Musicality: The most vital and often ignored part by a lot of salseros I know. I've read somewhere that without music, there would be no dance, although it seems that some dancers don't care.

I've always had problems with the music, understanding the beats, the structure of it, it was just a big mess. Until I did 2 things. I had someone explain to me how salsa is constructed and gained a good understanding of the different instruments and how they sound. Then I started listening to the music night and day.

You know how boriken talks about the feeling that you get from your soul? You can cultivate this. Use the same trick used by actors, listen to the instruments that are predominant through the song, and then assign feelings to them. For example, Jimmy Bosch's song 'Otra Oportunidad'. Knowing Spanish, I know this is a sad song about his brother's death. I then attach those feelings to the instruments being played in the song. When he plays the trumpet, each note is a tear, but is also a reminder of the determination from the song. Of course, if you don't know spanish, just make it up. The idea is to assign feelings to the music, and play just try as hard as possible to feel and groove to the music, but with specific feelings.

When you go out and dance, try to be in the moment. In the moment is an improv term where you don't think of what is coming next or have expectatios on what will happen, you just focus on right now, not even the next move, but really feeling the move that you are doing now and the emotion it evokes. If you feel no emotion, make it up and show it in the way you move your body and your facial expressions and eye contact. When you are dancing, become the music. Don't just hear it, but liquify its essence and express it with your body. You will find that when you are doing this, your mind is too busy to be distracted about your insecurities and actually calm you down and relax you.

When all three of the above come together, you will have dance nirvana. But even focus on the music. You can be in a completely crowded dance floor, and the feelings that are evoked from the music alone will help you talk with the gods.

P.S. I think we need to give other more insights and learn from each other's experiences, so if there is something that you think is vital, write it out and post it.

[danceguy]

Really enjoying these posts here - I was going to start another thread called "Enlightenment through Salsa", but Boriken has already covered it here. :P

What fascinates me the most is to hear how he describes his dancing...I've heard this from other dancers and have observed subtle things in Salsa that are so very similar to my Taoist way of thought that its uncanny.

I don't know if this will help some of what Brujo asked, but I'll try my best to put this to words, but its not an easy thing to do.

What I see Boriken writing about is a state of enlightenment, and this is not something that is only reserved for monks and nuns who live high up on the mountain. Each and everyone of us is capable of reaching that state, and the cosmic joke is that it is not difficult - in fact it is incredibly easy - but our fears can make it hard.

While I see many people focusing on the "path" to enlightenment - I think they are missing the point entirely. For once you have let go of all fears, expectations and reached that true state of zen...you realize its only the first step of a much bigger path. Ok, so you've become enlightened, now can you truly incorporate this into your day to day life? What about your body as well as your mind? Maybe some people need to follow a guru to do this, but the best guru is the one inside ourselves.

It may seem like I'm getting off on a tangent here, so please bear with me if you are still reading this. :)

I reached a state much like what Boriken described here, but in a way completely different, with nothing to do with dancing. It is a very beautiful thing when people of different walks of life can all come together from many paths - when we are truly in our heart - we are all one.

Through many years of meditation I was able to find that same sense of bliss, but it was something I could only at first do alone, in a very quiet place. Eventually, I practiced in crowded areas and in public places, until it became a part of my life as natural as breathing. I'm no master or expert at this...and I have so much still to learn each and everyday.

But again this is where I laugh at myself - because all of my experiences involve me doing this by myself. I used to think that that was all there was to do...find enlightenment on your own...and then sit atop a big hill and pray the rest of my life...?

Enlightenment is meant to be shared...and I soon realized the the true test would be to reach this state with another person. As I read Boriken's posts, I see that what he is describing is exactly that.

I haven't yet reached that point in my Salsa dancing, because I still have much awkwardness in my body, and many walls around myself. But that is also why I so drawn to it...for I can see where I'd like to be one day. Once during a dance (not Salsa oddly enough) I fell into that zone with a lady and suddenly I saw only her - and the rest of the world seemed to stand still. It was a very amazing feeling, and I've yet to experience it since.

I remember once when I was sitting with a girl I was dating, and I looked very deeply into her eyes for the first time. For a moment time seemed to stand still - and then I noticed that she had the most perculiar look on her face. I asked her what was wrong, and she said, "For a moment I didn't even know where we were, it was like we were both together and everything around us was gone. I have never felt anything like that before."

I smiled at her and said, "Empty all thoughts and the void fills you. You are one with everything."

Its been said that love can wear many masks, for that moment while sounding beautiful to some, was to mark the end of our relationship, which was shaky to begin with. To me, this was my best attempt to describe the way I feel everyday...connected to everything and in my heart.

This girl was frightened by what she felt - accused me of using witchcraft on her, etc etc...and I explained all I had done was look into her eyes and admired her, and it was the simple honest truth. She then forbade me to ever do it again...and I realized then that she and I had different paths in life...and it was certainly time to move on.

So yes simple, but yes difficult too. To be able to reach this in a dance with no expectations, with no desire at all...to let it just happen as it was meant to be...now that would be truly magical...

SG

[borikensalsero]

scorpionguy

:notworth:, If you only knew that I got chills down my body as I read your post. (not because of the things you said about my writing, but what you shared about yourself). I noticed, before you said it, that you didn’t belong to a Judeo-Christian thought. As I read your post the hairs in my body kept standing up. Wow! I haven’t read something like that, not from a book, in years. Isn’t it like they say, concentrating on the path will only take you to the path… :D Now, getting there without being something and doing anything, now we are talking. :D

Thank you so much for sharing a bit of you with us. Even, if the girl didn’t think you had a right to see HER…

[borikensalsero]

Brujo

I'm glad you brought that up. Yesterday, I was thinking to myself as I waited for class to start, Hmmm, I think I'm writing about destination and not how to get there. Possibly limiting the posts to the understanding of the advance dancers. Sure, glad you jumped in and gave your insight in what can help others get there.

Indeed, I agree that if we depend on the music to get there, then the music has to feel right in order to jump start a great destination. If the dance-floor is packed and we have people bouncing off of us like pinballs we won't be able to enjoy the night, even less achieving a higher state of dancing. There are so many variables that can affect a night of dancing. Last night I went out, danced a number of times and really didn’t enjoy any of them, and left, as SD mentioned in his New Years Salsa thread, with a bad taste in my mouth. The music was truly bad, I unwontedly fasted the entire day so when I showed up to dance I was running on fumes, the few dancers who truly seemed to enjoy the music didn’t do anything for me, the aura of the place wasn’t right even when I got there. I let all of that factor in the night and ended up having one of the worse nights of dancing I’ve had in a long time. Class sucked too. I didn’t sleep the night before either, so I was falling asleep in class.

Now, I'll have to disagree with technique. If technique were needed to reach a higher state of dancing nirvana then it could only mean that there had to be only one and sole right technique, for not every technique would lead you down the same path, ultimately different results. More over, if more technique meant reaching dancing nirvana only the most experienced dancers could reach such state. However, that isn't the case, each and every technique or no technique is just as good to bring you there. It matters not the moves we know, mastery of lead, or follow we have. What counts is how much you connect with the music, your partner, surroundings, yourself. How that music embraces your body and consumes your world. That void scorpion guy refers to, I substitute it with music when I dance.

Thinking deeper would lead me to say, to enjoy the music, feel what it makes you feel, take that and dance it out as per your current level of salsa undersatnding, without the mind, without thinking about only knowing 2 moves, feel it and it will take you there. For I don't really believe that there needs to be logical understanding of the music to feel in your soul.

I can't give anyone parctical advise on how to get to themselves, for my experiences/knowledge doesn't help them any, they have to experience it for themselves and find how to get there on their own. All I can do is tell them to allow themselves to be taken somewhere by the music. I can however as you mention, give them technical examples in how to move the body dancing salsa, how to technically achieve something, to reach a higher skill level of physical salsa dancing...

BTW, that was an absolutely awesome post you wrote. :notworth:

[passion]

There are times that a connection really has nothing to do with the dance itself (physical pleasure), but the meshing of the dancer’s soul. The point where no matter how well the dance goes or doesn't, to the dancers it was incredible.

For a 4 minute period your body stopped feeling and the music went straight into the soul, hence “nirvana”, total ecstasy, dance illumination, etc. .

You described that perfectly!! I don't think it can be said any better.

I've had several dances where I've reached that state, and made several mistakes. But I didn't feel bad about that for one moment! It is as you said, it was incredible!

I would without a doubt dance with anyone I've reached that state with over and over again. Once you've gotten to nirvana, as it's been said, it's easier to get there over and over again.

That's why salsa is like a drug. Once you're in that nirvana state, your body physically releases endorphins (the "feel-good" hormones) in your brain that lead to addiction. Who would want to give that up?? :?:

And the good thing is that, being addicted to reaching that state through salsa, is a good a thing and is not harmful to your body. :!:

[salsachinita]

This topic came so close to my soul that I've been thinking about reaching Nirvana via Salsa since I read this thread (while away in Sydney).

Now, I'll have to disagree with technique. If technique were needed to reach a higher state of dancing nirvana then it could only mean that there had to be only one and sole right technique, for not every technique would lead you down the same path, ultimately different results. More over, if more technique meant reaching dancing nirvana only the most experienced dancers could reach such state.

The only time I've reached Nirvana (in the purest form as desicribed by Boriken, ie. his experience to "Idilio") was more than 10 years ago (closer to 15?) when I was still a newbie in salsa, but my LOVE for the music, culture, lifestyle was so intense, many people commented on it as they felt it from me. I was by no means technically as competent as I am today, nor did I truly understand the complexity of the music.

Yet, when I was being lead (in a completely surrendered state) with my ex, the world outside our existence ceased to exist. We became one with the music, and all I could remember was how bright & warm the light was on us. I was blinded completely, yet all my senses were heightened

I have never experienced it (to the same intensity) since :shock: .

This shows that techniques do not equal ways to Nirvana.

[brujo]

The only time I've reached Nirvana (in the purest form as desicribed by Boriken, ie. his experience to "Idilio") was more than 10 years ago (closer to 15?) when I was still a newbie in salsa, but my LOVE for the music, culture, lifestyle was so intense, many people commented on it as they felt it from me. I was by no means technically as competent as I am today, nor did I truly understand the complexity of the music.

Yet, when I was being lead (in a completely surrendered state) with my ex, the world outside our existence ceased to exist. We became one with the music, and all I could remember was how bright & warm the light was on us. I was blinded completely, yet all my senses were heightened

I have never experienced it (to the same intensity) since :shock: .

This shows that techniques do not equal ways to Nirvana.

If I have to be the great crusader for technique, so be it.

I think it's easy for one dancer to be completely at ease and reach Nirvana or whatever when you are dancing. Just drop some acid before you dance and you'll be in salsa heaven. The challenge is to take the person you are dancing with there with you. In order to do this, you need absolute stillness in the chaos of movement and sound.

Why do I say technique is important? Is easy for one person to be completely at ease and feel and groove to the music. When I am dancing bachata, I often see that the girl I am dancing with will close her eyes and just flow with the music. When I do one of those dips that are just for her, I can see the smile come in her face. Do these moves make me feel like I am expressing my soul? Only when they don't feel like burdens and they come naturally.

Learn to dance, then forget you are dancing. Many of us enter the dancing world with a huge burden of physical and psychological limitations. Our bodies can't, our minds can't. What you are buying with all those hours practicing to be smooth, to lead better, to dance to the beat is the ability to be comfortable, to not be self-concious on the dance floor, to not worry about where your foot is going to be next but just dance. With each aspect of dancing that you master, you cast off a chain that ties down your dancing.

Sure, salsachinita, you feel absolutely comfortable dancing with your ex. I would as well ( well, not your ex, but a woman I am in love with ). But you are just letting your dancing amplify the feelings you already have, not creating new emotion through your dancing. It is easy to connect with an old friend, but try the same things with a stranger, and the results will be mediocre at best.

By learning to lead properly, my partner doesn't have to worry about being jerked around the dancefloor or bumping into people. If I do this instinctively, I don't worry about it either. The way I look at it, there are the chores that come with dancing, and the joy and fun that comes with dancing. You can have all the fun in the world yourself, but if you are bumping into the people around you or making your partner feel like garbage, are you really dancing well? By mastering technique, you are doing everything you are supposed to do when dancing, but you don't think about it, so you are having the same amount of fun as someone who is bumping into everyone, but you add that extra level of security, safety and comfort.

[salsachinita]

you are just letting your dancing amplify the feelings you already have, not creating new emotion through your dancing. It is easy to connect with an old friend, but try the same things with a stranger, and the results will be mediocre at best.

Very true, Brujo! We were very much in love back then.......

And, I was being lead. He was already a very well-respected salsero.

So you are right in stating the importance of techniques. I guess the leader at least had to be proficient enough to NOT cause traffic hazards....

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

Why do I say technique is important? Is easy for one person to be completely at ease and feel and groove to the music. When I am dancing bachata, I often see that the girl I am dancing with will close her eyes and just flow with the music. When I do one of those dips that are just for her, I can see the smile come in her face. Do these moves make me feel like I am expressing my soul? Only when they don't feel like burdens and they come naturally.


Brujo,

I agree with you that good technique can help you reach nirvana more frequently. The reason for this is as you say, it makes you feel more confident in your skills and relaxed freeing your mind from all negative thoughts, worries, fears or concentration on moves/patterns. Nevertheless, I don’t think it’s compulsory for you to get your salsa fix. I’ve seen beginners with poor technique get their fix in ways I never thought possible. Dancing with such feeling and intensity that it brought chills to my spine. Looking intensely into each others eyes during the entire song, minds disappearing into the twilight…

I realise this is rare but it does happen. To be honest, the first time I reached nirvana was when I reached intermediate level. I felt that I had progressed a lot, was getting good feedback from my partners and was starting to let myself go. Before, I was so worried about the patterns, the lead, controlling floor space, etc., that I couldn’t relax and clear my mind for other things. When “it” happened for the first time, I was in a state of awe. Completely bewildered, thinking “What just happened to me?” Is this possible? Of course, I had had great experiences dancing with girls as a beginner, good connection, nice smile, warmth, good sensation, nice song, etc., but nothing that compared to my first nirvana experience. It was like comparing a pleasant sensation to cloud nine or seventh heaven.

This is why I admire certain people who undeniably lack technical skills but still manage to reach nirvana. They transcend themselves by refusing to acknowledge that their lack of technical skills are important. This I cannot do!

Regards,

[borikensalsero]

How can we differentiate reaching nirvana, from a strong physical emotional journey? And like brujo said, not do it alone, but taking your partner with you.

For, it must come from both dancers in order for one dancer to allow the self to mesh with the other dancer’s self in order for nirvana to open its doors to a complete journey.

I’m speaking of bypassing all physically felt emotions, the fun, the skill, all the strong physical feelings that turn a good dance into a great one. A dance where the dancer doesn’t know what happened, even deeper, can’t describe it. As salsachinita says, a feeling of total loss of time and space.

How do we know that we have reached nirvana in a dance? As I like to differentiate it with the same as being in love and being infatuated. How do we differentiate? How can absolutely fantastic great sex can turn into absolutely fantastic great love making?

For I truly believe that there is no need for technique of to the least extreme to reach such point. All there needs to be is a instant connection with the other person. Usually felt by a simple hold of hand on way to the dance floor. A connection where hands spark, we feel the energy of the other person blending with ours. Where despite how horrible the lead is, the follower is just as awesome and turns a push and shove lead into call and response session blending as if the leader truly was the beast of leads. To which the next level can only be reached with the company of onlookers during the journey… They cease to have fun, their smile turns to awe, they only stare at your faces, forgetting that there are patterns, moves, leads in the dance, forgetting that there is a dance.

What makes that dance, nirvana-like, and the others marvelously fantastic?

[passion]

Learn to dance, then forget you are dancing.

I think you've got something there. Once you get past the part of making sure you have the right steps and being worried about your dancing, that's when it's easier to reach nirvana.

When the dance flows through you, instead of you forcing it out of you, then you open the doors to let the emotions flow between the two of you to reach a higher state together.

I also agree with that it's easier to reach it with someone you love. The challenge is being able to reach it with a partner with whom you only dance. It is possible...

[passion]

For I truly believe that there is no need for technique of to the least extreme to reach such point. All there needs to be is a instant connection with the other person. Usually felt by a simple hold of hand on way to the dance floor. A connection where hands spark, we feel the energy of the other person blending with ours. Where despite how horrible the lead is, the follower is just as awesome and turns a push and shove lead into call and response session blending as if the leader truly was the beast of leads. To which the next level can only be reached with the company of onlookers during the journey… They cease to have fun, their smile turns to awe, they only stare at your faces, forgetting that there are patterns, moves, leads in the dance, forgetting that there is a dance.

As salsachinita said earlier... :notworth:

I too, strive to reach that level.

[borikensalsero]

For I truly believe that there is no need for technique of to the least extreme to reach such point. All there needs to be is a instant connection with the other person. Usually felt by a simple hold of hand on way to the dance floor. A connection where hands spark, we feel the energy of the other person blending with ours. Where despite how horrible the lead is, the follower is just as awesome and turns a push and shove lead into call and response session blending as if the leader truly was the beast of leads. To which the next level can only be reached with the company of onlookers during the journey… They cease to have fun, their smile turns to awe, they only stare at your faces, forgetting that there are patterns, moves, leads in the dance, forgetting that there is a dance.

As salsachinita said earlier... :notworth:

I too, strive to reach that level.

Salsachinita is passionate, so are you, you haven't been here long and I already see in your posts that you seek a deeper thirst, just like Salsachinita does. A shift on focus will do the trick. Work on your skill to best suit your needs, but never forget that there is something behind skill and desire that roots our passion... That something is what will elevate your skills past perfection into the shapless world of.... :D :D

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

The only time I've reached Nirvana (in the purest form as desicribed by Boriken, ie. his experience to "Idilio") was more than 10 years ago (closer to 15?) when I was still a newbie in salsa.

Really Salsachinta? It took me a long time before I reached it for the first time, but after that, it started to happen to me a lot. :) I think it was because I started to look at dancing in a different way.

The last time I reached nirvana was a couple months ago with a girl I never expected to. It was a big surprise! She had been dancing salsa long before I came along, and since she only danced with good leads, I never asked her till I felt I was good enough. :oops: The first time we danced I got dissapointed - she wasn´t very good. Over the following year I danced with her around 10 times. She was actually quite "cold" as a dancer, rarely smiling, practically no eye contact, etc. One thing I´d notice is that she´d always look to see who was watching her dance. Hmm...

Anyway, several months ago I asked her to dance again (it was a slow salsa) and as always she started to look at who was watching her. I don´t know what hit her, but after about 30 seconds, she started to give me eye contact and completely surrendered to my lead. We never broke eye contact for more than a split second till the end of the song. I don´t know if it was the song, the lighting, the place, whatever, it was one of my best dance experiences ever - from someone I´d never expect it from. :?

The fix is what primarily makes me come back week after week. I think I need one soon. :wink:

[danceguy]

For I truly believe that there is no need for technique of to the least extreme to reach such point. All there needs to be is a instant connection with the other person. Usually felt by a simple hold of hand on way to the dance floor. A connection where hands spark, we feel the energy of the other person blending with ours.

Boriken,

This is exactly what happened to me the one time I found nirvana on the dance floor. There was a lady I had met during the first hour lesson (at a ballroom dance), and as soon as our hands met for the first time...something happened that I can't find the words to describe (I've been trying for 10 minutes but have come up blank!).

She was so mellow and centered within herself, and I could "feel" her on many levels, and I can only hope that she felt the same from me. Although I found her quite attractive, what I felt from her was beyond mere physical beauty...for I had looked into the eyes of a kindred soul.

I can't even remember what we danced that night, but I do know that there was a Salsa. What I do remember is dancing 3 or 4 dances in a row...but they all felt like one. It was the first and only time I have danced with a follower that was so effortless to lead...and despite her being far more advanced than me this didn't matter at all.

I don't know what went on around us or even the time of day, I just remember her presence, and the sensation of feeling totally connected like one person as we danced.

Come to think of it, I can't even remember her name...but I will never forget the person...she was someone very special... :wink:

SG

[brujo]

Sure, a normal person can hit a home-run once in a while, but he will not hit a home-run as consistently as a professional baseball player that practices and works on his batting. On the same token, the home-run hitter will never always hit a home-run.

I am not suggesting that technique is the end all and catch all of all troubles. Read my previous post, it is just one of many aspects that are going to affect the way you dance. I honestly don't understand why there is this absurd fear of technique. Knowing a little floorcraft, comfortable leading and where to put your hands to create a stronger connection will not make you into a salsa robot. Far from it, it is going to help you on the dance floor as it will make you less of a liability.

To borrow a term from improv, there are three ways you can connect with someone: verbally, physically and emotionally. Dancing, in the most part, is a physical conversation. What I am suggesting is that by working on your technique, you can figure out ways to bypass this physical conversation and make it deeper. What you guys think as Nirvana, the perfect moment, or whatever, is just a moment when you are lost in the dance, when you body doesn't realize that it is dancing anymore. Like that groove that you can get into when writting, or drawing, or fixing a car, or programming a computer. Where the next move just comes naturally, without thought, without effort.

So there we go. A physical connection that is magnified eventually becomes an emotional connection. Where the sadness of a trumpet player, the patriotism of a conga player, the melancholy of the singer or the joy of the pianists leaves the music and is translated into movement by the dancers. To reach this state, you need to trust each other, trust the music, and trust yourself. Technique is not the bridge between simply moving your body and nirvana, but it is one of the stepping stones.

[borikensalsero]

I agree with you brujo that if we are planning to dance a “formal” dance there need be technique involved, otherwise, there is no formal dance, ala Mambo NY City style, or Cuban style. To achieve such feats we need technique, and as you have mentioned, the more technique the better the dancer. It is a fact of dance, likewise, it in itself doesn't not lead to robot-like dancing as you alluded to. What leads to robot like dancing, even for those who get lost in the dance is dancing without ever breaking free from the technical world (Physical world), but less so for those who managed to get an emotional connection even without breaking out of the technical world.

I think differently of nirvana, if it was in itself getting lost in the dance, then every skilled dancer would have witnessed so from a flawless dance. However, I can't compare my one and a million flawless dances, where I have been totally lost, with the ones that surpass flawless even when they are filled with mistakes, yet reach a plateau that those other dances haven't. Repeat motion leads to the brain stopping to consciously communicate with the body, however, we don't say that a person has reached walking nirvana because he is fluid in his walk as well as is daydreaming where he doesn't know where he is, or even what he is thinking. He is in a moment but not connected. What I believe you speak of is what runners and the sport world refers to as, The ZONE. When a person is in a zone, he sees everything before it happens, he doesn’t realize what he is doing, yet still does it superbly, and the connection he has to his immediate surroundings seems flawless. Where as Nirvana you are the ball, the player, the game, teammates, expectations, the cheers, the boos, you become everything, and everything ends up being a sense of deep love.

What differentiates the ZONE from Nirvana is a deep sense of self, filled with absolute love, which is directly shared by everyone in relative contact with the person, but you share not only you but the world itself. The Zone gives a person a feeling of self but it lacks love, and connection to that beyond its means, it can even lack the participation of those around.

We will never hear a person refer to the ZONE as being in deep love, or an emotional feeling that actually lasts for a couple of days and even weeks. When a person is in Nirvana, their heart fills so much with love that it actually hurts when you’re coming out of it (at least to me). We can feel the other person without touching them. We can hear the other person speak without the use of words, we are so connected as dancers that there is an actual pull and interchange of energy within each other. Physical lead isn’t necessary because both dancers have become one and will, as long as they are in nirvana, act as one. Not because of physical lead and follow but because they are actually one dancer sharing two bodies but using one soul to guide movement. Our soul simply doing its work of balancing us as part of everything.

Do I agree that it helps a person reach nirvana, if and only if the person truly believes so. For dancing from the soul can only come out when the brain is good and ready, and if technique is what the person needs to bridge the soul to the dance floor, then, indeed we will need technique.

It isn’t whether a person hits a homerun or how often, but will he to allow a strikeout to feel like a homerun with bases loaded. For it isn’t the result that matters but what the person feels while doing it. If I think a homerun is pleasure I will never feel pleasure for knowing that I have a chance to stand there and swing at the ball, for soulful meaning isn’t dependant on result.

[brujo]

I agree with you brujo that if we are planning to dance a “formal” dance there need be technique involved, otherwise, there is no formal dance, ala Mambo NY City style, or Cuban style.

As opposed to what? Grab two people on the street and have them dance and see how well they gell together?

You are entitled to your own views. In my book, there is no difference between what you refer to as the Zone and Nirvana. Why not? Because of the deep emotional investment in dancing. You are not just dancing for yourself or for a crowd. There is one other person that you are sharing and interpreting this feeling for. Because of the other person involved, the dynamics are absolutely different than running a marathon or tai-kwan do.

The difference between religion and philosophy is that philosophy does not hide under absolute power words like the soul and love and dancing from the heart. Sure, they are both powerful emotional triggers. The soul is something pure, beyond the body. The heart, oh, that's where love comes from and a million valentine cards are minted from. Wanna look deeper? Tough luck, because that is as far as these definitions go to.

What makes us want to connect with another person? On the dancefloor? What drives us to seek out one another and engage in such movements to the music? Why does the bible say dance and praise the lord? Why is movement such an essencial part of the Yoruba / Orishas religion? God / Nirvana / blah is not trapped in dance, but you can get a taste of it through dance. Whatever. No more religion talk. My brain hurts.

[borikensalsero]

Religion has not place in this entire dance philosophy we are speaking of. It is about what we think of dancing and its stages. To put it into better light, and hopefully clearer…

A flawless person = The Zone = Confucius’ belief of a perfect acting person can be no more than a perfect person, hence, he didn’t believe in anything passed a flawless human.

An enlightened soul = Nirvana = Tao’s views of something beyond the physical ala Buddha, Jesus, and Mohammad. And a dancer who has taken Confucius like physical feats, such as technique and transcend it to Tao like dancing with the water flowing.

That is the difference; you brought it up before but have failed make the distinction between Confucianism and Taoist thinking. You know a difference is there but have yet to make the distinction.

Difference between 2 people that don’t know how to mambo and 2 that do? One couple grooves and moves to the music with no specific purpose but to move and enjoy the music, as opposed to the other performing the same grooving but within the lines of its pertaining dance art form, with the objective to depict the form to the best of their abilities, as well as enjoying the dance.

[brujo]

Religion has not place in this entire dance philosophy we are speaking of. It is about what we think of dancing and its stages. To put it into better light, and hopefully clearer…

A flawless person = The Zone = Confucius’ belief of a perfect acting person can be no more than a perfect person, hence, he didn’t believe in anything passed a flawless human.

An enlightened soul = Nirvana = Tao’s views of something beyond the physical ala Buddha, Jesus, and Mohammad. And a dancer who has taken Confucius like physical feats, such as technique and transcend it to Tao like dancing with the water flowing.

That is the difference; you brought it up before but have failed make the distinction between Confucianism and Taoist thinking. You know a difference is there but have yet to make the distinction.

Difference between 2 people that don’t know how to mambo and 2 that do? One couple grooves and moves to the music with no specific purpose but to move and enjoy the music, as opposed to the other performing the same grooving but within the lines of its pertaining dance art form, with the objective to depict the form to the best of their abilities, as well as enjoying the dance.

Alright! Math notation!

Technique != Mambo Technique

I love it when you make up new words. What next? The confusian zone and the tao zone? The salsa Atkins?

If you believe that technique is absolutely useless, it's up to you. You're entitled to your opinion. But don't distort my words to match your ideas. I will say it again. It's not about flawless technique or musicality or whatever, but having all those things will help you connect better with the music and your partner because your own comfort level is going to increase. Your view is hit and miss, whenever this mysterious soul will decide to express itself, then the magic will happen. It's too new age for me man.

I suggest that there are things that you can do to become more comfortable with the dance and each other. It's not a surefire formula, and some dances are going to suck. But by exploring ways to lead better, ways to communicate better and ways to interpret the music better, you can get in touch with that aspect of your spirit that thrives to soar.

[borikensalsero]

Yes, there is such a thing as Mambo technique, just like there is Cuban Technique... One of the first things taught to a woman, in NY City style, is not to have spaghetti arms. Equal pressure, etc, etc, etc. For the man, Cuban dancing roots in holding her by the waist, where as in NY City Mambo, it’s hold her by the shoulder blade... Different techniques for different dances…

I never said that technique is useless, all I said is that it isn't needed to reach a point you label zone and I don't. Any person who has ever had the experience to feel both will tell you that they are indeed, different. I speak from experience from both sides, The Zone, and reaching a Nirvana-like state in a dance. They by no means felt the same, and why I stress difference. To me is like tasting a Red Delicious and a McIntosh apple and conclude that they taste the same because they are apples. When in fact they don’t taste the same, and aren’t the same.

Comfort has nothing to do with technique, nor musicality, but the individual himself, the brain. Feeling good in your own skin while doing something has nothing to do with what a person knows, but how they feel about themselves. It is a head game to which people really think that knowing more means reaching higher grounds, and a feel better because I’m doing things like I’m supposed to. However technique, and experience will allow us to dance Cuban Style and NY style better. I can't and won't deny the fact that the more you know the more you can do in a dance.

I don't dismiss that your views are correct that a person expresses a particular dance much better and more efficient, through technique. That is why we all seek training. The more I know about a given style the better I will dance it. However, it has nothing to do with how deep the feeling of being in that dance will be, what it has done is cover up insecurities we shouldn’t have to begin with, at which time you say we can allow the spirit to soar, but some never get there, because they really think that the zone is the ultimate goal.

You speak of dancing facts like Confucius spoke of the way a man should lead life. Always in search of being a better person by means of doing things better that eventually the person becomes a super man. A man gliding through the world doing things better than before, without thinking about it, for all a super man can do is great things for himself and others. I am not twisting and turning your words, they speak for themselves. Ways of doing physical things for better result all belong to Confucius-like thinking, there is no getting around that. Where as Tao-like, anything is already better.

I simply say that there is something further than being in a zone, having a better lead, or better communication, and that despite how proficient a person becomes at them, it will not allow them to reach a higher perspective of the self in a dance. If the dancers don’t surpass the feeling of, “I need to know more to begin to get in touch with myself”, more will never get there regardless of how much a person knows, for they’re are seeking the soaring of the spirit by means it doesn’t care for. All it takes to reach a nirvana-like state is to be in tune with ourselves, so much so that regardless what you do, it will come out because you have allowed it.

Now, that you look better dancing Cuban style while being there, I’ll give you that. If you reach nirvana dancing Cuban style, and I don’t know Cuban style but dance it and reach the same feeling, then you will look much better than me, that is, using Cuban style as a measure to look good.

I can't disagree with your view nor dismiss them, they are facts, and I understand where you are coming from, seeking better ways and techniques in a dance will always make us better dancers, and allow some to break through comfort level that is a times absent.