Dancesport series (Superbowl Pro/Am)

[elisedance]

As far as I am aware, the Dancesport Series (is the only thing going that lists, and tries to compare the achievements of, pro-am dancers. I believe (I hope I am right about this) that this was started, or is at least organized by, Sam Sodano (else I am about to make a twit of myself yet again). Anyhow, I would love to hear what other dancers think of this and...... (continues after next paragraph).....

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I just arrived at the Doubletree hotel in NE Toronto, the site of the Crystal Ball which starts tomorrow but there is a lecture tonight. And there, sitting in the cafe is Sam Sodano. No time like the present, so I introduced myself and asked if I could talk to him about the Dancesport series sometime during the next few days. He stared at me a bit blankly then asked my name. Well, actually, he asked how I spell it so maybe he made a link to all those e-mails I sent (that were never replied to by the way). Hope that does not scare him off. So at least I got that far.
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....sooo, what improvements might be made. Thus, if you were to talk to Sam about the Dancesport Series/Superbowl what would you like to say? Careful how you reply cause I may just ask him!

[Laura]

That's great that you got to talk to him. Sam's a great guy, the kind of person who is always extremely busy, but once he makes a personal connection to someone he's not likely to forget you.

As far as the DanceSport Series, goes, one thing that would help is that if things like little spelling errors in someone's name didn't result in their points being split around in the standings. I'm assuming this gets all straightened out in the end, but even now it's possible to look at the team match qualifying standings and see the same couple listed twice, with different comps and point values, simply because of a one-letter change in the Pro's surname.

That sound so tiny and quibbly, but since this is my first year truly trying to participate in the Series, I don't really have the experience or perspective to suggest changes.

I definitely appreciate the existence of the series, because -- speaking solely for me and my teacher -- it gave us some "bigger goal" to try for other than showing up at random comps. The Series helps us pick and plan what comps we do, because there's little point in spending the time and money to go to an event that won't potentially earn us points for the series.

I also like the way the honors are kind of split -- there's this "top student" area, which is based on numbers of entries and bonus points for doing lots of entries and dancing out of your region, and then there's the team match qualifying standings, which are purely based on one's results in the DanceSport Series Team Match Qualifiers. I'm glad that there's a system that is tracking pure results, rather than being based on who feels like dancing a gazillion heats and who can afford to go to a bunch of competitions outside of their region. Basically, someone really good can get onto their Regional Team by winning a few comps, regardless of what other people do.

I guess the one complaint I have now is that the web site is a little confusing, and that the various member competitions don't really explain what the DanceSport Series is all about. They just seem to assume that you know what it is.

And one final suggestion...although I guess this would go more to Aida Moreno, the producer of "Championship Ballroom Dancing," wouldn't it be fun to have a short "package" of highlights from the team match on "America's Ballroom Challenge"?!

[avab]

Clarification: Aida Moreno is the producer of "America's Ballroom Challenge"; Rita Moreno is an actress who starred as Anita in the film of "West Side Story" and who (many years ago) hosted PBS's "Evening of Championship Ballroom Dancing". They are separate and distinct people!

[elisedance]

one thing that would help is that if things like little spelling errors in someone's name didn't result in their points being split around in the standings.

I definitely appreciate the existence of the series, because -- speaking solely for me and my teacher -- it gave us some "bigger goal" to try for other than showing up at random comps. The Series helps us pick and plan what comps we do, because there's little point in spending the time and money to go to an event that won't potentially earn us points for the series.

I also like the way the honors are kind of split -- there's this "top student" area, which is based on numbers of entries and bonus points for doing lots of entries and dancing out of your region, and then there's the team match qualifying standings, which are purely based on one's results in the DanceSport Series Team Match Qualifiers.

I'm glad that there's a system that is tracking pure results, rather than being based on who feels like dancing a gazillion heats and who can afford to go to a bunch of competitions outside of their region. Basically, someone really good can get onto their Regional Team by winning a few comps, regardless of what other people do.

I guess the one complaint I have now is that the web site is a little confusing, and that the various member competitions don't really explain what the DanceSport Series is all about. They just seem to assume that you know what it is.



I actually wonder how many ProAmers here know of, or have explored the DanceSeries site? You may want to take a look because if you have competed in any of their events (and this is a large fraction of the competitions in N america) you are listed with your current points. Thus, for those of you haven't looked at this please do check it out and drop a line telling us what you thought of the site.

As for Laura, I also found the site difficult to understand - its easy enough to find the 'leaderboard' and look up your name but you will note that your score is listed as bonus points and then bonus with performance points. There is no column of your performance points by themselves. I could be wrong, but I think this is purely to try to boost the performance of those that enter a lot of competitions and heats over those that actually win.

Again, as mentioned by Laura, there is an entirely separate competition that I still did not understand till she explained it to me. In this one you accumulate points solely for 'Superbowl' listed events and, in essence, it provides a separate forum for the top dancers. Note, that in this table there are no entry 'bonus' points.

There are also 'team' matches, regional (N America is divided into several) and province/state scores - though the meaning of all this is also a bit obscure.

I have a few other ideas in addition to those suggested by Laura but will hold off until we get more input (hopefully!!).

And now off to my last dance lesson before the comp!
ee

PS Laura: no fair, you get to edit your errors, we get to look at ours in perpetuity!

[fascination]

yea...I wish I was in open....give me a year...so that the whole superbowl thing was an option...am toying with doing silver there regardless...have seen it done...meh

[fascination]

and, btw, while I am too much of a peon to be on a first name basis with Mr. Sodano...he has always been very friendly when I have had occasion to speak with him, and he does seem to remember you once you speak with him...I am sure you will have a good experience talking with him

[DancingJools]

I actually wonder how many ProAmers here know of, or have explored the DanceSeries site? You may want to take a look because if you have competed in any of their events (and this is a large fraction of the competitions in N america) you are listed with your current points.

In my experience, most of the pro-am dancers who compete frequently enough or have good enough results to be serious contenders in the series know about the site. I don't know that they check it all that frequently, since they know their results. Also, the table of results and points are usually published regularly in DanceBeat. But yes, as we get close to November, when the results are tallied and invitations to the team matches are set up, things get dicey: Dancers who are close to a tie or who want to break into the ranks of the team match invitees will try to do one or two events just before Ohio, in order to gain those extra few points. There are a couple of smaller competitions that take place just before Ohio, and they openly market themselves as such. Remember that you don't have to compete in your own region (i.e. you could be from Region 5, compete in an event in Region 1 and, if you win, add the points to your total). And savvy dancers also know to target smaller events throughout the year where the competition is more limited, but the points count just as much as they would in a huge event.
So, yeah, the Superbowl series and website is well-known, once you are in a league (financially and level-wise) where it matters to you.
I agree that the site is not easy to navigate. But, if you're into the competitive scene where these results matter to you, you'll navigate :-) (Been there, done that).

[Cal]

I started competing, on-and-off, in the Dancesport Series ever since its inaugural year. Back in those days, comps very rarely offered multi-dance events or scholarships in Bronze or Silver. The Dancesport Superbowl was promoted as a series of "open" multi-dance events - as Laura pointed out on another thread, "open" means open to all levels, not that it requires open choreagraphy. So, as a Bronze student, I entered the Standard event.

At the first comp I went to where it was offered, I was the ONLY person in the event in ANY age category - so the organizers put my event on the floor at the same time as the Amateur Open Scholarship event. Oh My God. I felt exactly like a WV Beetle that accidentally wandered onto the speedway during the Indy 500. But hey, I "won."

Even though it's open to all levels, in reality the competitors these days are usually gold- and open-level students. Very few bronze-silver people want to spend the money to enter the event without a realistic shot at placing. However, after I got some Smooth and Rhythm open silver choreography, I entered more Dancesport Series events; and I've entered Dancesport Series events in Standard with closed silver choreography.

But I question whether results and leaderboard placings reflect quality of dancing in quite in the manner that Laura hopes for. Except for my very first VW Beetle event, I've never placed other than bottom or near-bottom in any Dancesport Series event; but somehow, at various times and in various categories, I've been in the top three of the leaderboard rankings. (I still have a copy of the leaderboard chart that shows me as First in my age/region for Latin, of all things!) Even if I place last, if I'm the only one from my region in the event, my points aren't necessarily getting stacked up against those of the actual winners, if they are from a different region.

So Dancesport Series results can still give "skewed" picture of who the actual top-quality dancers are.

[mamboqueen]

Well, and with the dancesport series, doesn't it boil down to how many comps you can do? I'm not sure the leader of this is really indicative as to who is the best out there. Someone with the means (time off and money) and gets decent (but not the best) placements/points can be at the top and not necessarily be the "best" dancer out there.

[tanya_the_dancer]

Well, and with the dancesport series, doesn't it boil down to how many comps you can do? I'm not sure the leader of this is really indicative as to who is the best out there. Someone with the means (time off and money) and gets decent (but not the best) placements/points can be at the top and not necessarily be the "best" dancer out there.

That's what I think. I am somewhere on 500th place there with my Florida Superstars results, don't know where I'll be after St. Louis results are in. I placed well in what I've done so far, but I did not do a lot of heats.

[mamboqueen]

The only thing I can think of to make it somewhat level is to have 12 comps in the circuit and have the results of 4 count (I think they do this with ice skating in one of the competitive circuits, the name of which escapes me....Laura would probably know).

[DancingJools]

There are two systems in the DanceSport series. There is the "top student", which is an accumulation of points based on the number of entries. I don't know if this is linked to results in any way, or is just a "frequent flyer" system.
The other one is the "leader board", where points are given strictly based on placement in a limited number of "superbowl" events. These are very competitive. Some more so than others, of course. Anyway, placing in the "leader board" is the more meaningful one.
I looked briefly at the "top student" list and couldn't recognize most of the names, though I follow most events rather closely.
Also, some regions are more competitive than others. Region 1, which includes MA, NY and NJ, is very tough.

[elisedance]

That's what I think. I am somewhere on 500th place there with my Florida Superstars results, don't know where I'll be after St. Louis results are in. I placed well in what I've done so far, but I did not do a lot of heats.


Hi Tanya,

I competed at the Falls Premiere in February - and the points still have not been added to the tally. To say the least, this is a bit irritating since the series was one reason why I did the event (its also within driving distance from me).

What I think I am hearing is that it would be nice if the results were more skewed to performance. Perhaps there should be a greater benefit for call-backs. I think these are underrated with the current system.

ee

[fascination]

agree...while I don't dance any of those events and am just now silver...of the top ladies listed right now just on the regular leader board...it is definately a combination of some very good dancers, some very monied dancers and some folks like me who are at a decent level in both...I am in the top 30....there are some fine dancers there...there are some frequent dancers there...and I will say that as someone who has only bee competing two years in june and it will be 16 comp by then...I would say that I recognize about half of those names and think that of the ones I recognize, at leas thalf of those are pretty respectable dancers...the smae is true of the pro list btw...IMO there are some ...uh...not so hot pros in that list who dance a boatload...and there are some awesome pros....it's a mix

[Laura]

The only thing I can think of to make it somewhat level is to have 12 comps in the circuit and have the results of 4 count (I think they do this with ice skating in one of the competitive circuits, the name of which escapes me....Laura would probably know).
You are thinking of the Grand Prix. This is an interesting idea, but I think it might lead to a lot of ties due to the sheer number of competitors involved. In the Grand Prix, each national skating association (the USFSA in the US), choose who to send to which Grand Prix event. So, there's already a pre-selection of the top people, before anyone even competes.

[mamboqueen]

You are thinking of the Grand Prix. This is an interesting idea, but I think it might lead to a lot of ties due to the sheer number of competitors involved. In the Grand Prix, each national skating association (the USFSA in the US), choose who to send to which Grand Prix event. So, there's already a pre-selection of the top people, before anyone even competes.

Yeah, I knew it would have to be tweaked somehow. It just seems that there has to be a better way. Even having a "national championship" when a lot of people can't make it to Miami the first in September (which can wipe out anyone who has kids in school and *has* to be there for their first day) is tough and leaves out a lot of contenders.

Don't really have a good answer for this, but I'm sure someone who has a more methodical mind than me can probably come up with some good alternatives.

[tanya_the_dancer]

Yeah, I knew it would have to be tweaked somehow. It just seems that there has to be a better way. Even having a "national championship" when a lot of people can't make it to Miami the first in September (which can wipe out anyone who has kids in school and *has* to be there for their first day) is tough and leaves out a lot of contenders.

Don't really have a good answer for this, but I'm sure someone who has a more methodical mind than me can probably come up with some good alternatives.

Yeah, I wish USDSC was NOT right after the start of school year. I did not go last year primarily because of that. Although schools start on a different day in different areas. Ours start around August 20th.

[elisedance]

After all that it got too busy and I couldn't even get close to Sam - and then after competing in the evening session and all that adrenalin I didn't even think of it! But what a high.

Still, I am going to follow up on this and the one interesting thing for this thread is that they are changing the 'regions' for the team match competition (see above). This means that Canada will become a single reason. They also were pushing the idea that this is now the World pro-am Dancesport competition - so I presume this is a step to create national representation. However, I doubt somehow that the US will have a single rep in each catagory!