View Full Version : Salsa the Music vs Mambo the Dance
scout@niagara.com
03-18-2007, 08:36 PM
Ok, I'm new here, but I'd like to start a discussion of salsa vs mambo. I maintain, that mambo is the dance, and salsa is the music, but when you dance mambo to hot music, you can call the dance, salsa. IMO, mambo can break on 1 or 2; it's not confined to mambo on 2 or salsa on 1.
Now let me hear from the experts. Scout sits back and learns. ;)
quixotedlm
03-19-2007, 04:12 AM
who cares what it's called. toh-ma-to or to-maa-to. it's the same thing either way..
SDsalsaguy
03-19-2007, 04:36 AM
Sorry scout, but the whole on1/on2, music/dance thing has been beaten to death numerous times. No problem asking of course, but just in case your thread doesn't get traction, you may want to use the DF search feature to dig up some of the past threads on the issue.
I don't even know if the majority of us define the terms the same way. :shock: :lol: But things are pretty calm here in regards to the On1 vs On2 debate.
Regarding music, as with most things, there are exceptions to every rule, and I have found that there are a handful of songs which break into a long jazz riff/solo where the melody is gone, and you're left with an instrumental along with percussion/bass in the background. I, personally, find such songs pretty hard to dance to On1. Meanwhile, there are a handful of songs where the melody is so strong and a lack of anything for me to hear the "2-3" and thus I can't dance On2 to it. Add in that my ear is attuned to hearing most songs as On1 since that's my usual style.
I'm an On2 newb for the most part. I did, however, have a salsera compliment me last Saturday that my On2 has gotten good enough that that is all she wants to dance with me any more. :wink:
Bottom line, as always, if you're competent in both, you should cater to the one who can't dance both.
sweavo
03-19-2007, 07:20 AM
mambo can mean a variety of specific things, so can salsa now! If we look to origins, mambo has connotations in african religious rites and salsa is a marketing term from New York to sell Afro-Latin music, which connotes "spiciness".
The dancing and the music existed before the term "salsa" was applied to it...
So your standpoint is too simplified to stand up against robust probing!
Oo-er missus!
Similar (but slightly differently worded) question with better answers can be found here. (http://www.salsaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=3669) It's our sister site.
Sagitta
03-19-2007, 08:26 AM
Phew...rather not talk about this all over again... :-) Thanks tj. :-)
scout@niagara.com
03-20-2007, 03:48 PM
Sorry, y'all. I'm a newbie here, and didn't know of past discussions. Thanks for your input.
Sagitta
03-20-2007, 05:01 PM
No problemo...it's just that topic is so gone over and raises all sort of passions and tempers and... ;-)
quixotedlm
03-20-2007, 05:17 PM
No problemo...it's just that topic is so gone over and raises all sort of passions and tempers and... ;-)
At least on DF, it's one of those topics that hasn't raised serious passions because mods pour water into it as soon as anyone mentions the words on1 and on2 (or salsa and mambo) in the same breath. I'm not sure that they've actually seen a flamewar either, I think they are just trying to be preemptive (like Bush's war on Iraq ;) )
At least on DF, it's one of those topics that hasn't raised serious passions because mods pour water into it as soon as anyone mentions the words on1 and on2 (or salsa and mambo) in the same breath. I'm not sure that they've actually seen a flamewar either, I think they are just trying to be preemptive (like Bush's war on Iraq ;) )
LMAO!! At least the mods here have a better success rate! :D
Sagitta
03-20-2007, 09:42 PM
LMAO!! At least the mods here have a better success rate! :DThanks. I would have taken offense otherwise. We keep df friendly as all non-productive probably inflammatory discussions are gently discouraged. ;-)
quixotedlm
03-20-2007, 09:53 PM
Thanks. I would have taken offense otherwise. We keep df friendly as all non-productive probably inflammatory discussions are gently discouraged. ;-)
While that may be so, I strongly believe that Mr. Banana, :banana: , is dancing on2. Therefore on-2 must be better. Right? ;)
While that may be so, I strongly believe that Mr. Banana, :banana: , is dancing on2. Therefore on-2 must be better. Right? ;)
Mr. Banana is on Merengue mode.
scout@niagara.com
03-21-2007, 07:59 PM
Yeah, yeah..Mr. Banana's doin' his/her? little dance. ;) Ok, so forget the on1 or on2 issue, ( I think that just depends upon the feeling a danceer gets from the music) but how about definitions of mambo or salsa? Is my thought on that correct?
Regarding the definitions, from what I understand is that within the genre of salsa music, there is a subset called mambo music.
Quoting Richie Rumbero (from that discussion on our sister site that I have mentioned earlier in this thread), who is talking about the differences between salsa music and mambo music:
"Both are generic terms and are associated with more than one stylistic convention. (Much of which is predominantly afro-cuban.)
Mambo's are normally uptempo numbers that tend to have limited lyrical content. Whereas what's called Salsa is normally played in the styles of Son Montunos and especially Guarachas. Mambo's can be and have been interpreted by big bands, conjuntos and small group ensembles (sextets, septets, etc.,) but are mostly known as being representative of the big band tradition. Salsa is usually interpreted within a conjunto format. The traditional/conventional conjunto in Cuba was a rhythm section, a tres guitar, and all-trumpet orchestration. Since the late 1950s, the conjunto has been redefined, mostly outside of Cuba. You now have conjuntos with nothing but trombones or multiple trumpets & trombones. Some conjuntos might add a saxophone or two. Or perhaps even a flute. They may drop the tres altogether or add another instrument to compliment the role of the tres. (Some examples are Yomo Toro playing the Cuatro in the Willie Colon band; The vibraphone as found in the late Louie Ramirez's band; An electric guitar in Manny Oquendo's LIBRE; An electric violin as can be heard in older Eddie Palmieri and Orchestra Harlow recordings.), etc.
Unlike most Mambo tracks, a Salsa track is alot more consistent with utilizing rhythms, melodies, and lyrical/choral refrains that are related to other musical genres. Of course, this is only relative to specific artists and not necessarily a universal approach across the board. Mambo's tend to have a much stronger jazz/bop element found within the phrasing of the brass section, piano, bass, timbal/drums. Salsa bands tend to lean towards a more tipico/cuban sound, but in a distinctive fashion from their cuban counterparts. However, this too is relative to specific artists and should not be perceived as a universal approach by all whom are described as Salseros...
Richie"
Regarding salsa dancing vs. mambo dancing - it's probably similar to my previous post. (i.e. Mambo being a subset of salsa.) I have heard both On2 dancers as well as ballroom dancers call it mambo, but I've never heard LA Style or Cuban referred to as mambo.
IME, of course. :wink:
scout@niagara.com
03-25-2007, 08:26 PM
lol
Ok, so this is a hot question in the dance world. As I've said on another thread; the dance community, better agree on the names and execution of dances, if dancesport is to be admitted for the 2012 Olympic games. Just this morning, the MC at Stardust Dance Weekend, said, that mambo is on two, the original Cuban dance with the musical syncopation, and that when they tried to market the dance in New York, they simplified the dance, put it on one, and called it "hot" and "salsa". Therefore, mambo/salsa are the same. He didn't agree with my definition regarding the music as a means to differentiate the break.
I still listen to the music to decide on which beat to break.
"The music tells you how to dance." Cheyenne, in Dance With Me.
lol
Ok, so this is a hot question in the dance world. As I've said on another thread; the dance community, better agree on the names and execution of dances, if dancesport is to be admitted for the 2012 Olympic games.
News flash scout... salsa ain't dancesport. And regarding dancesport... if you think salsa/mambo is a topic of contention among dancers, DanceSport is even more so and will always be taught/danced in a variety of ways... besides, who really cares if it's an Olympic sport?
sweavo
03-26-2007, 03:58 AM
You'd better be clear on your terminology and post dancesport issues in a dancesport forum!
And what is this "dance community" you speak of?
And what is this "dance community" you speak of?
More likely the ballroom community than the salsa community that you and I share.
Different strokes for different folks...
tangotime
03-26-2007, 07:58 AM
The reason that you do not hear the term " Mambo " used in general terms by many salseros, is 2 fold -- One, they are not old enough to have been around when thats all there was- and 2-- they would not know the differences, primarily because there are so few left who dance the more original " style " ,outside of Miami . The very same reason they ask for cha,s in Latino clubs and not Guajira.
Sabor
03-26-2007, 08:08 AM
salsa really dont mean anything.. just a commercial term made up in the early 70's and its simply a marketing term the latin music promoters picked up on to revive the art and the buisiness after a slump in the 60's .. Johnny Pacheco and Fania Records had a big part to play there.. taking the local rhythms of the Carribean basin and mixing it up (cuba, puerto rico, dominican rep. etc...
anyway.. naming stuff whatever is really exactly that .. whatever
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