How often do you take lessons?

[atk]

In another thread, somewhere, someone mentioned being completely obsessed with dancing.

I'm just wondering how often people go out dancing, take lessons (group and private), and how long they've been dancing. For myself, I'm at the local AM studio every night of the week (Except Sundays) taking group lessons, or practicing, for 1 to 4 hours. I take two private lessons per week, both shared with my partner. But I only manage to go out maybe 1 night every month or two. Oh, and I've been dancing for just about 3 years.

What about you?

[Indiana_Jay]

I'm just wondering how often people go out dancing, take lessons (group and private), and how long they've been dancing.

My lw and I are also AM students. We take a private lesson every other week. We go to the studio dance almost every week. When we started, we were taking two group classes a week but lately, it's been 0-1 groups per week because of schedule conflicts. Almost every week we attend an open studio dance at one of the other studios in town. We also attend three monthly social dances at various locations near our home (including the one hosted by the local USA Dance chapter). This July, it will have been two years since we started dancing.

-IJ

[Peaches]

Private lesson about once a week with once teacher; double private lesson every other week with my other teacher.

Two group classes on Tuesdays. Group class every other Friday.

Dancing maybe about once a week, on average.

[Laura]

If I tell you will you promise not to hold it against me? Sometimes when these threads come up and people answer, weird arguments about unfairness with respect to one's disposable income and dancing crop up.

[Indiana_Jay]

If I tell you will you promise not to hold it against me? Sometimes when these threads come up and people answer, weird arguments about unfairness with respect to one's disposable income and dancing crop up.
Laura, I promise it won't bother me. We know that you are not one to flaunt your blessings and would not intentionally belittle anyone with fewer resources.

[Peaches]

Very true, Laura.

I try to look at it and just be grateful that I have the income to dance at all, and to take private lessons.

I don't have as much as others, but I've got nothing to complain about and everything to be grateful for.

Heck, the fact that I have a job, a roof over my head and food in the fridge, and am healthy and safe on a day-to-day basis is enough to be happy about. Everything else is gravy.

[Laura]

I take six to eight privates a week. TS and I also get a coaching about once every other month from one of his coaches whenever she is up here.

When I was doing Amateur, K & I would take one private a week and one group class per week, and practice three or four times a week.

The previous time I was doing Pro/Am, I took two to four privates a week plus a group class.

And the time before that, when I first started dancing, I took two privates a week.

[WorksForShoes]

Too true, one should tread extra-carefully thinking one understands another's financial priorities and abilities. I imagine some of DH's and my friends think that we could afford (and desperately need?) more lessons, some think we are crazy for the amount we already do spend.

As for lessons, we take somewhere between 2-4 group classes a week (depending on where we are with the dance, whether we take the studio Friday pre-dance workshop, and scheduling), we are accelerating to 3 private lessons in every 4 weeks, and we social dance at least one night every weekend, plus usually two outings for club salsa a month. Oh, plus an hour of belly dance for me and formation practice for the two of us every Saturday. When last I counted, we were dancing between 5-12 hours every week, depending.

[samina]

If I tell you will you promise not to hold it against me? Sometimes when these threads come up and people answer, weird arguments about unfairness with respect to one's disposable income and dancing crop up.

good point.

hey, luv your new avatar! :)

is that a new red dress...?

[samina]

I take six to eight privates a week. TS and I also get a coaching about once every other month from one of his coaches whenever she is up here.

When I was doing Amateur, K & I would take one private a week and one group class per week, and practice three or four times a week.

The previous time I was doing Pro/Am, I took two to four privates a week plus a group class.

And the time before that, when I first started dancing, I took two privates a week.

that is excellent... you are very fortunate... i love hearing this

[Laura]

is that a new red dress...?
No, it's the same damn one that I've been dancing in since my days with K. back in 2005! I desperately need to make a new one but I still haven't moved yet (although the movers are finally scheduled to come this Wednesday morning).

Glad you liked the picture. It's TS & me at City Lights Ball the weekend before last.

[NielsenE]

Current 3.5 privates/week pro-am (smooth/rhythm)
1 private/week for am/am smooth
trying to get to 1 private/2weeks for am/am rhythm

aiming to scale back the pro-am work following my competition this week and continue to increase the lesson/practice time that the am-am partnership gets

[samina]

beautiful. the red is so rich.

[Twilight_Elena]

I usually have two 90 minute (double) privates a week. I have tons of group lessons in stock but I haven't found a group class that would suit my schedhule and level. Totally sucks.

T_E

[fascination]

I have been dancing a total of 2 1/2 year.s..first six months was once every two weeks on a saturday with dh...two years ago in januray I started private lessons at twice a week and went to groups about 4 times a week... now, and like Laura please don't shoot me for having disposable income, I take about 10 hours a week and no groups...this varies depending...can be 6 can be 15 before a comp...we are no longer at a studio so groups are not really an option anymore, but mercifully the price has gone down b/c there is no overhead...this year we had very little coaching b/c of the transition, but we are scheduled for at least 5 hours of it in april...

so I have been dancing pro am for two years...competing will be two years in june(16 comps)...and an extra six months if you count the @12 lessons w/ dh prior to that...I dance bronze and silver in 3 styles and bronze in latin....and i think it is safe to say that I am fairly obsessed

[samina]

....and i think it is safe to say that I am fairly obsessed

passionate... enthusiastic... i like the positive spin :rolleyes: obsessed sounds like such a liability, and clearly there are so many positives to your pursuit!

that is just fabulous that you are able to pursue this so wholeheartedly. i hope you and laura will be inspirations to others rather than projections of lack... this is exactly the tempo i wish to be at, and the fact that other pro-am-ers like yourselves are doing it only reinforces to me that it's very possible!

[fascination]

thanks...I'll go with that...and I am sure you have what it takes...

[wooh]

Been dancing about 2 1/2 years with husband. For a long while we took one group a week, a private per week together, me a private per week and he a private every other week. (I need more to keep up!!)
We cut out the solo privates about a year ago, and cut the group classes last October and changed instructors. So currently we're taking one private a week (and getting so much from our current instructor in that one private a week that we could really chew on it for a few weeks, she's just amazing at isolating what we're doing wrong and challenging us.) We tend to go out dancing at socials about once a week. Very occasionally (like maybe 4 times a year) skip a week, and about twice a month go dancing on both Friday and Saturday. We're social dancers that do the occasional showcase.
All the lessons in the world didn't matter until we started going out each and every week and dancing. It was all about going out and getting comfortable on the dance floor until we OWNED it.:)

[tj]

If money is tight, you could always just take group salsa classes. They're usually $8-15 for an hour, and then you'll pay $5-15 each time you go out.

[mamboqueen]

Dancing on and off for 7 years (probably a solid 5). I take two privates a week and fantasize about another 6. Practice about 4x/week. Rarely go out social dancing.

[Sagitta]

Depends on what dance? salsa? I haven't taken any lessons for a long time. I don't believe in lessons as such as there is way too much focus on moves IMO and not enough on learning to dance. For the others? I do group ballroom during the semester when it works out. I've taken some swing classes...now and then...AT now and then...maybe an average of 3 group classes a month I think in various dances. And I often don't care with what is taught, but usually learn something that is ancillary to the moves being taught. I guess I'm not serious enough maybe...or my philosophy has changed?

[Laura]

I think the fact that you learn something about dancing regardless of what type of dancing or steps is being taught is a really good thing! So, I'd say your philosophy has changed.

[Tori]

I used to be taking lessons for about six to eight hours a week... which isn't TOO bad but it really cut in on my school work so I've gone down to two hours a week.

[tanya_the_dancer]

I used to do 5-6 privates per week + 2-3 groups. Now my situation is somewhat tricky (too long to describe) but I probably average out 4-5 privates per week + 2 groups, it's when they happen that's the interesting part. But I am looking forward to the day when I will stop paying for my son's education (he goes to a private school, and then there will be college...), that will free up quite a bit of money for more comps.

[atk]

Wow! This thread grew faster than I expected :)

I think it's really cool that some posters can manage so many private lessons. I'd love to be able to do more.

[naturallove]

Right now, I'm doing (salsa) student team 2xs per week (which involves sort of lesson within a rehearsal) but I also take a partnerwork class once a week after team rehearsal. I also like to go to salsa workshops about once a month or so (sometimes out of town, sometimes in) to get different ideas about dancing.
I want to take some privates but things are busy and I can't decide what I should concentrate on!

[DennisBeach]

In another thread, somewhere, someone mentioned being completely obsessed with dancing.

I'm just wondering how often people go out dancing, take lessons (group and private), and how long they've been dancing.
What about you?

We took 2 hours of lessons every 3 weeks, practised once a week and went dancing once a week for 5.5 years. We replaced the lessons with a video library last fall. I spend 1-2 hours a week watching the videos to find technical improvements and new moves to work on. Nothing is close to were we live, so the one dance a week, we do a lot of dancing. We spend over 2 hours actually on the floor dancing. We also do some dancing on concerts, weddings etc. in addition to the one real dance a week.

[anp73ga31]

I take six to eight privates a week. TS and I also get a coaching about once every other month from one of his coaches whenever she is up here.

When I was doing Amateur, K & I would take one private a week and one group class per week, and practice three or four times a week.

The previous time I was doing Pro/Am, I took two to four privates a week plus a group class.

And the time before that, when I first started dancing, I took two privates a week.

Cool! You are one lucky woman! Can I be you when I grow up? :D

Will have been dancing 2 years in another month. Started out taking a group lesson a week. Then added social dancing twice a week. About 6 months in I started taking a private a week. Then I cut out the group lessons and just did the private lesson a month(I like having the instructor to myself). Now money is temporarily tight so I had to cut out the weekly private lesson and instead I get two private lessons a month in exchange for working a little at the local studio. Once my money situation works itself out I'll go back to taking once a week, and if it gets much better, I'll be able to do twice a week. Still dance socially at least once a week. Have done one competition and one showcase...decided I liked the competition better and hope to start competing next year.

[SPratt74]

I used to practice every night! But since I'm trying to work on competing, I've had to cut back a lot due to the higher cost in privates. It all depends on a lot of factors like what you can afford and how much time you have etc. ;)

[kayak]

I have been dancing two years. That seems like a pretty common number on this thread :D I take two group classes a week. They are kind of mini-group classes. So there is a lot of personal attention. Then, I get out social dancing 2-3 times a week. Kind of fun, I basically never sit down at the dances.

[MacMoto]

In another thread, somewhere, someone mentioned being completely obsessed with dancing.

I'm just wondering how often people go out dancing, take lessons (group and private),
This probably depends largely on what dance(s) you do and whether or not you compete or perform.

I'm a strictly social salsa dancer and have been dancing salsa for 4 years now. For the last two years I've only been able to take group classes sporadically (class times/locations don't suit me anymore). I'm taking one private lesson a month. When I go to congresses/weekenders (I attend 3-4 events/year), I take 2 full days' workshops (10-12 classes).

I usually go out dancing 3 nights every week, 4 if I'm lucky. This amounts to anything between 6 and 10 hours of dancing per week. I know many salsa dancers who are out 6 nights a week, but to me 3-4/week + congresses is about right.

[Purr]

Private lesson two or three times a week, depending.

Group classes three times a week; two are advanced technique, one is ladies styling.

Studio party once a week. Community dances about twice a month.

[Dave Bailey]

I'm just wondering how often people go out dancing, take lessons (group and private), and how long they've been dancing.
Typically (Tango), up to once a week social dancing, twice a week classes (about 4 hours), and twice a week practice (about 2 hours).

I've been learning Tango for coming up to 18 months now.

[tanya_the_dancer]

Private lesson two or three times a week, depending.

Group classes three times a week; two are advanced technique, one is ladies styling.

Studio party once a week. Community dances about twice a month.

You have advanced technique and ladies styling classes? I am sooo jealous. ;)

[Purr]

You have advanced technique and ladies styling classes? I am sooo jealous. ;)

I've seen your videos. I'm jealous. Enough said. ;)

[SonInDance]

My son and his partner has two group lessons per week (one latin and one standard). Then they take 3 private lessons per week (2 latin and 1 standard). They sometimes will practice for one hour with no instructors. Thank goodness for private lessons! Our kids never wants to practice but think they will get 1st place during competitions:rolleyes: . This may seem a lot but sometimes their different instructors are either sick, going on vacation, or competing in dance competitions in other cities, so many weeks the kids will have at least 2 private lessons.

They have been dancing ballroom for 3 years but only "getting" ballroom in the last year. This sport has really become a family goal in that both my husband and I as well as our partner's parents are very active in supporting and encouraging our children's dancing. We are even thinking about taking vacation to places where they hold dance competitions as well. Crazy, huh!

[tanya_the_dancer]

I've seen your videos. I'm jealous. Enough said. ;)

Thanks, this really made my day ;)

[Gumby]

I'm totally jealous of those of you that can take 4 to 5 hours of privates a week. I can barely manage to afford 2 hours a week on top of my comp fees and coaching and shoes and et ceteras. I do try to make up for it by practicing a couple of hours everyday. But is can be discouraging to go out on a comp floor and know some of the women's I'm competing against have had as much time with their pro in a week as I have in a month.

I don't do to much social dancing anymore - couple of swing nights a month, couple of studio dance parties. There's just not enough me to go around after work, practice, gym a couple of times a week and sewing my fingers to the bone all weekend (do I sound pitiful enough yet?).

[DancinAnne]

As much as possible, but not nearly enough. :)

It varies... from dancing daily to no less than 2 or 3 times a week. A lot of social dancing. Exhibitions on occasion. Privates from pros as often as possible. I assist a group class at least once a week. Studio party once a week. Swing club party once a week.

I partner with DH, so we train as much as we can together. We try to dance daily, but doesn't always work out.

Last year we both pro-amed, DH am-amed (he's been competing for several years), and we both did J&Js and strictlys (swing and hustle). We hit a competition about once a month between March and November last year. Have plans to do the same this year on the swing circuit. Both J&Js and strictlys. Possibly pro-am too.

[musicchica86]

But is can be discouraging to go out on a comp floor and know some of the women's I'm competing against have had as much time with their pro in a week as I have in a month.

What's even worse is when said women brag about it. :headwall:

[Gumby]

What's even worse is when said women brag about it. :headwall:

Of course if you manage to beat them

[samina]

just ftr... i don't perceive that there is anyone on DF who is bragging...

[Gumby]

just ftr... i don't perceive that there is anyone on DF who is bragging...

I think she meant at comps. I've encountered this periodically - sometimes I think it done to imtimidate a bit.

[samina]

I think she meant at comps. I've encountered this periodically - sometimes I think it done to imtimidate a bit.

oh, really? sheesh... poor form, indeed. pay them no mind... insecure biddies...:roll:

[Gumby]

oh, really? sheesh... poor form, indeed. pay them no mind... insecure biddies...:roll:


Actually its about the dumbest thing they can do to this red head - every time I've hit the floor annoyed I rip it up. Its when I'm feeling good and unstressed that everything falls apart. Maybe I should pay someone to follow me around a comp and irritate me.

[musicchica86]

As the guy I've been out on a few dates with says, "People have no sense of consideration for others anymore."

So, so true.

[samina]

Actually its about the dumbest thing they can do to this red head - every time I've hit the floor annoyed I rip it up. Its when I'm feeling good and unstressed that everything falls apart. Maybe I should pay someone to follow me around a comp and irritate me.

hey, cool... so they're doin you a favor! you sparkplug, you... ;)

[fascination]

I always dance better poed...and ftr, personally I would never discuss how many lessons I take at a comp b/c I really get sick and tired of having my successes attributed to my billfold rather then my hard work...one can take a boatload of lessons and get nowhere as well(though it certainly can help)...and taking a bunch doesn't also mean that one doesn't practice or whatever...we all have a mixed bag...I don't dance with a well- known pro...is it a guarantee? no...does it help?...very likely...but I would never suggest that a lady who won with a well known pro didn't deserve it...it isn't my place to judge and even if she didn't it would be so very ungracious...beyond that...folks talk about lots of things for lots of reasons that can sound like bragging if the thing they are talking about is something you envy...gotta be careful there....they may not think anything of it at all...

[samina]

folks talk about lots of things for lots of reasons that can sound like bragging if the thing they are talking about is something you envy...gotta be careful there....they may not think anything of it at all...

absolutely.

[NielsenE]

I always dance better poed...



This seems to be a common sentiment, so does this mean that there is a selfish reason to be polite to your competitors but rude to your own partner?

[mamboqueen]

As the guy I've been out on a few dates with says, "People have no sense of consideration for others anymore."

So, so true.

Hey! New b/f??!! Does he dance???

[musicchica86]

Not a boyfriend, at least not yet, and no, he does not dance. He has proven useful, however, for getting opinions on costumes when I can't decide.

[mamboqueen]

Not a boyfriend, at least not yet, and no, he does not dance. He has proven useful, however, for getting opinions on costumes when I can't decide.

You're dating DP?? !! J/k...just not many guys out there that want to be involved in that. Good for you for finding the one guy in your state who does!

[fascination]

This seems to be a common sentiment, so does this mean that there is a selfish reason to be polite to your competitors but rude to your own partner?
I am not "rude" to him but I will get poed if he has been rude to me or I have percieved him to be...it is never my goal...but he and I have both noted that it makes me less in awe of him which allows me to dance more within myself rahter than trying to please him...it has value

[Laura]

What's even worse is when said women brag about it. :headwall:
See, that's why I said what I did at the beginning of this thread. This had better not turn nasty.

[fascination]

it won't

[musicchica86]

You weren't bragging, Laura. Far from it.

[quixotedlm]

lessons now every week - an advanced salsa class, an beg-int class in salsa as follower, ECS and lindy hop.

privates according to ones needs - less than one a month.

i don't perform or compete - so this is plenty :)

a long time ago, i used to average about 1.5 private classes and 4 group lessons a week, and went out dancing about 5-6 times a week. on second thoughts, it wasn't too long ago. i woke up one day and realized that despite being young, i've got to think about retirement now ;)

[SlowDancer]

I'm glad this thread got started because it's causing me to do some serious thinking about going with a different pro. I am presently taking one private a week, one group, and social dancing about 2X a week. This thread has got me thinking that the only reason I don't take more privates is that my pro is so hard to get time with...not necessarily because he has so many students but because he is so absent-minded and is always forgetting lessons, double booking, standing me up, etc. I haven't made a change because there have been several reasons, finances being one, that one lesson a week has been OK with me...but I know that I would really like to be taking two or three a week, and I would find the means to do it if only my pro were more reliable.

Sorry for the mini-hijack...I'm pondering what to do about this...maybe I should start a new thread or just pray/meditate/ponder some more...

[wooh]

I'm glad this thread got started because it's causing me to do some serious thinking about going with a different pro. I am presently taking one private a week, one group, and social dancing about 2X a week. This thread has got me thinking that the only reason I don't take more privates is that my pro is so hard to get time with...not necessarily because he has so many students but because he is so absent-minded and is always forgetting lessons, double booking, standing me up, etc. I haven't made a change because there have been several reasons, finances being one, that one lesson a week has been OK with me...but I know that I would really like to be taking two or three a week, and I would find the means to do it if only my pro were more reliable.

Sorry for the mini-hijack...I'm pondering what to do about this...maybe I should start a new thread or just pray/meditate/ponder some more...

Double booking, forgetting lessons, standing you up? I don't care how good a pro is, if he has that little respect for my time, I'm finding someone new. The occasional miscommunication or emergency or brain fart is understandable and forgivable. But if it's a regular thing, no way I'm tolerating that!

[SlowDancer]

Wooh, you are absolutely correct. I've actually become pretty good friends with this pro over the years, outside the studio, and maybe that's why he's become so nonchalant about me...He thinks I'll always be there, no matter what. But I believe that I deserve a pro that is as serious about my dancing as I am...and sadly, I don't think this one is.

[Laura]

I agree...if your pro isn't there week in, week out, when he/she says they'll be there (reasonable exceptions and emergencies excluded, of course), then find someone more supportive of your dancing and of their own professionalism!

[wooh]

He thinks I'll always be there, no matter what.

Yep, my old instructor thought that.:( He was quite wrong.:cool:

[musicchica86]

I'm glad this thread got started because it's causing me to do some serious thinking about going with a different pro. I am presently taking one private a week, one group, and social dancing about 2X a week. This thread has got me thinking that the only reason I don't take more privates is that my pro is so hard to get time with...not necessarily because he has so many students but because he is so absent-minded and is always forgetting lessons, double booking, standing me up, etc. I haven't made a change because there have been several reasons, finances being one, that one lesson a week has been OK with me...but I know that I would really like to be taking two or three a week, and I would find the means to do it if only my pro were more reliable.

Sorry for the mini-hijack...I'm pondering what to do about this...maybe I should start a new thread or just pray/meditate/ponder some more...

You're exactly right. Currently I'm taking even less than you, but I never have that problem with my pro. If something comes up, he ALWAYS calls ahead of time to reschedule. He never leaves me hanging.

As for my own lesson situation, currently all I can afford is one lesson a week. Yep, that's it. One hour all week. No groups. No socials. Depleted my bank account past what I should have a few months back and haven't quite recovered. Before, I was doing one private a week, one group, and one social a week if I felt like it, and I'll go back to that once I've got the funds again. Actually, I might substitute the social for another group--David Hamilton's recently taken over another group class, so I'd like to take both of his non-advanced groups if at all possible (not quite ready for advanced smooth with him yet).

Will definitely be back to all that by summer, if not before then. Will have to rev up the privates then anyway, have a showcase mid-June that I'll need to prepare for. Will probably go up to 2 privates a week, not sure about groups and socials. Luckily I've got a pretty good memory, so I can get away with not taking lessons all the time because I can remember the routines fairly easily.

Now all that's left is making said routine look as gorgeous as when David choreographed it for me...that will be a challenge.

[chandra]

hehe, I take about 1 private a month. Social dance 3x a week (one salsa, one lindy, one WCS - none really count, as they are in IOWA!!!!) I travel to compete about twice a month (WCS) and those comps have TONS of social dancing, so thats where I get my dancing in. Hopefully once I move I can social almost every night, and get 2 privates a month in. (I love that in the westie world, thats a crap load of privates! NOBODY does that many privates! heh, different dances, different worlds I guess. With my one private a month, I take way more privates than most westies!)

[Laura]

Definitely take as many groups from David Hamilton as you can...talk about a cost-effective way to learn!

[wooh]

Definitely take as many groups from David Hamilton as you can...talk about a cost-effective way to learn!

I'm wondering what gas and wear/tear on my car would cost for the drive to Nashville for group lessons now!

[fascination]

Wooh, you are absolutely correct. I've actually become pretty good friends with this pro over the years, outside the studio, and maybe that's why he's become so nonchalant about me...He thinks I'll always be there, no matter what. But I believe that I deserve a pro that is as serious about my dancing as I am...and sadly, I don't think this one is.
or he's just that way by nature...its been known to happen:rolleyes: ...doesn't make it fun though...I have developed some coping strategies...pm me sometime if you want

[samina]

This seems to be a common sentiment, so does this mean that there is a selfish reason to be polite to your competitors but rude to your own partner?

is it really so common? is it true for you too, nielsie? am wondering if i should become an instigator...:cool:

actually, i was po'd last night -- at one of my instructors -- and i'm rarely po'd... and i actually got my frickin heel leads in during waltz practice. hmmm.

[Peaches]

Yep. Was told last week that I dance much better when I'm pissed off.

Except I wasn't. Temporarily annoyed at him, maybe, but not pissed. Tired and blah and worn out in a general sense, but not pissed. Well...not last week, at least.

But he's right. I probably dance my worst when I'm happy.

[SlowDancer]

or he's just that way by nature...its been known to happen:rolleyes: ...doesn't make it fun though...I have developed some coping strategies...pm me sometime if you want

Thanks, Fascination...I may pm you this evening, but I really think this situation is beyond repair. I've been taking from this pro on and off for 8 years and I'm thinking it's really time for a change. It's very hard to get and stay inspired under these circumstances. I know I have above average ability but I feel that I am making zero progress, and no wonder...I know I could spend more time practicing outside of lessons, but again, I'm not really inspired to do that any more.

I think I've almost worked up the courage to call him today and just tell him that I'll be taking from other pros since he is so difficult to get any time with...no hard feelings, stll love ya, dude, but gotta take care of me...

[fascination]

pro and I have discussed this....at length....(FWIW, he doesn't differentiate btwn poed and annoyed...its all poed to him...but okay, whatever)....ANYHOW.....I really think the crux of it is this: usually, I care alot about him and about how I am doing and usually I am painfully aware of my inadequacies and very eager to try hard and to please him....this is usually a recipe for poor posture, upper body tension, and quick movements...when I am poed w/ him...I hold my head up high, take a deep breath, relax, become very focused in an "I'll show you" sort of way...and I dance myself w/little regard to him...it just works...fortunately for us, this happens alot

[fascination]

Thanks, Fascination...I may pm you this evening, but I really think this situation is beyond repair. I've been taking from this pro on and off for 8 years and I'm thinking it's really time for a change. It's very hard to get and stay inspired under these circumstances. I know I have above average ability but I feel that I am making zero progress, and no wonder...I know I could spend more time practicing outside of lessons, but again, I'm not really inspired to do that any more.

I think I've almost worked up the courage to call him today and just tell him that I'll be taking from other pros since he is so difficult to get any time with...no hard feelings, stll love ya, dude, but gotta take care of me...well certainly if his teaching isn't worth the hassle then ya gotta do what ya gotta do...and after 8 years you probably know that...but if he's one of those very talented artistic sorts that just can't seem to pull the organizational aspect off...well, I have some strategies on that...either way, you are right...it has to stop and you deserve better...

[DancinAnne]

hehe, I take about 1 private a month. Social dance 3x a week (one salsa, one lindy, one WCS - none really count, as they are in IOWA!!!!) I travel to compete about twice a month (WCS) and those comps have TONS of social dancing, so thats where I get my dancing in. Hopefully once I move I can social almost every night, and get 2 privates a month in. (I love that in the westie world, thats a crap load of privates! NOBODY does that many privates! heh, different dances, different worlds I guess. With my one private a month, I take way more privates than most westies!)

Hey, I don't suppose you went to the Tulsa Spring Swing event this past weekend?

You are right about privates in the westie world...

[wooh]

...I hold my head up high, take a deep breath, relax, become very focused in an "I'll show you" sort of way...

That's when I dance best. Someone pisses me off, then I WILL show them!

[samina]

i wonder what mindset it takes to muster that kind of passion & focus and not be angry... a drag to think "i'll show you" must rely upon pissiness... to my mind, anyway... definitely food for my thinking cap today

[chandra]

Hey, I don't suppose you went to the Tulsa Spring Swing event this past weekend?

You are right about privates in the westie world...

I was there!

I led stevie in pro-ams, as a female, I followed Doug as a female, I have bright red hair. I got 6th in JnJ. What about you?

[NielsenE]

is it really so common? is it true for you too, nielsie? am wondering if i should become an instigator...:cool:

actually, i was po'd last night -- at one of my instructors -- and i'm rarely po'd... and i actually got my frickin heel leads in during waltz practice. hmmm.


Actually its not true for me.. When I get mad I tend to go stone-faced which doesn't help...

[SlowDancer]

well certainly if his teaching isn't worth the hassle then ya gotta do what ya gotta do...and after 8 years you probably know that...but if he's one of those very talented artistic sorts that just can't seem to pull the organizational aspect off...well, I have some strategies on that...either way, you are right...it has to stop and you deserve better...

Yes, he definitely fits into the artsy-disorganized category...everyone who knows him knows he is this way, but it seems to me it has gotten much worse over the past few months. He's a very good teacher, when I can actually nail him down for a lesson. But I'm just not liking the way this is making me feel. I don't like having to chase him down for a measly hour per week.

What's happening right now is a perfect example. We didn't have a lesson last week at all, because he was getting ready for a dance exhibition with his girlfriend. So, we scheduled a lesson for last night at 8 p.m., after a group class at 7 (taught by an out of town pro). After the class I walked up to him, ready for my lesson, and he got that deer-in-the-headlights look and said, oh I'm so sorry, I forgot and booked a coaching during this time. I was visibly ticked off, and said, well when, then? He said, how about Thursday night? I said, great, when on Thursday night? Couldn't pin him down to a time and now it is Wednesday night and I still haven't heard from him. I hate to be paranoid but it's almost like he's trying to get rid of me...weird...

And no, I still haven't called him...it almost feels like I'm breaking up with him and I haven't quite figured out the words I want to come out of my mouth...

[tanya_the_dancer]

Yes, he definitely fits into the artsy-disorganized category...everyone who knows him knows he is this way, but it seems to me it has gotten much worse over the past few months. He's a very good teacher, when I can actually nail him down for a lesson. But I'm just not liking the way this is making me feel. I don't like having to chase him down for a measly hour per week.

What's happening right now is a perfect example. We didn't have a lesson last week at all, because he was getting ready for a dance exhibition with his girlfriend. So, we scheduled a lesson for last night at 8 p.m., after a group class at 7 (taught by an out of town pro). After the class I walked up to him, ready for my lesson, and he got that deer-in-the-headlights look and said, oh I'm so sorry, I forgot and booked a coaching during this time. I was visibly ticked off, and said, well when, then? He said, how about Thursday night? I said, great, when on Thursday night? Couldn't pin him down to a time and now it is Wednesday night and I still haven't heard from him. I hate to be paranoid but it's almost like he's trying to get rid of me...weird...

And no, I still haven't called him...it almost feels like I'm breaking up with him and I haven't quite figured out the words I want to come out of my mouth...

Buy him a day planner as an early Easter present :)

[SPratt74]

That's when I dance best. Someone pisses me off, then I WILL show them!

The only problem with me is that I find out I'm far toooo tense when I dance mad. I do dance better, because I concentrate more etc., but I'm still a bit tense. ;)

[fascination]

Buy him a day planner as an early Easter present :)
nope, i think you have to decide that it is worth it to be his planner...and to sound like a biddy when you inform him of it

[SlowDancer]

Buy him a day planner as an early Easter present :)

Great idea, Tanya...if I really thought it would work. But I'm really thinking it might be best just to make a clean break. The only problem is, I'm not sure who I want to start taking lessons with...there are a couple of pros at the studio (it's basically the only studio in town) who are possibilities. One does ballroom AND country, and that really appeals to me since I am a country western dancer, too. :cowboy:

[SPratt74]

Great idea, Tanya...if I really thought it would work. But I'm really thinking it might be best just to make a clean break. The only problem is, I'm not sure who I want to start taking lessons with...there are a couple of pros at the studio (it's basically the only studio in town) who are possibilities. One does ballroom AND country, and that really appeals to me since I am a country western dancer, too. :cowboy:

Maybe take a practice lesson with the one that you are interested in? ;)

[tanya_the_dancer]

Great idea, Tanya...if I really thought it would work. But I'm really thinking it might be best just to make a clean break. The only problem is, I'm not sure who I want to start taking lessons with...there are a couple of pros at the studio (it's basically the only studio in town) who are possibilities. One does ballroom AND country, and that really appeals to me since I am a country western dancer, too. :cowboy:

You should tell him why you're going to someone else, maybe it will be a wake up call for him. Also, I think, since there is no obvious choice (as it sounds from your post), you should take trial lessons with different pros to see whom you like better.

[fascination]

IME...they couldn't change if they wanted to...and they don't want to

[anp73ga31]

Great idea, Tanya...if I really thought it would work. But I'm really thinking it might be best just to make a clean break. The only problem is, I'm not sure who I want to start taking lessons with...there are a couple of pros at the studio (it's basically the only studio in town) who are possibilities.

I know how you feel. I have taken from a guy for two years now and am ready to move on to someone else. Not the same scenario as you, because my reason for moving on is that I want to compete and need someone who is more technical and into that sort of thing, and he is very derogatory towards the "exaggeration" of competitions and the technical aspects as well, which I totally do not agree with and am tired of arguing with him about. But we are friends and I feel guilty about leaving him, and have to constantly remind myself that I'm NOT leaving him high and dry, nor do I owe him anything for getting me started with dancing, because I have paid him for every lesson I have taken and he has gotten money in exchange for his teachings. That being said, I've only told him that I needed time off to deal with money issues (which is true!), and have not had the courage yet to tell him that I wont be back ever. Not looking forward to that. But I am with you in that I think a clean break is for the best. I will have to do that myself when the money works out and I can figure out who I want to take from next. Changing teachers is hard, but who knows...the next instructor we find might actually be the one that we can really work great with, and if we had stayed with the former instructor, we would never have met the new one! Just a thought....

[DancinAnne]

I was there!

I led stevie in pro-ams, as a female, I followed Doug as a female, I have bright red hair. I got 6th in JnJ. What about you?

Nice to put a face with a name! Not sure what my final standing was in JnJ.

[Laura]

Why are people so enthralled with their dancer dancers that they can't tell them that they want to move on, that it's not working, etc. It's a business, it's a business relationship. If a teacher can't/won't teach you what you want/need, you have every right -- and a responsibility to yourself -- to move on.

Just do it.

I had to once. Yes, it felt weird, but I just did it. I said to one of my old teachers that I was quitting Pro/Am to focus on amateur, and didn't want any more lessons, and that was that. Since we were both there, I took that one last lesson -- and it was actually a fun goodbye. We mostly danced, and it was very good. I am very thankful for everything he taught me, and we still see each other around and say "hi". He's even judged me and K. at a comp or two, no hard feelings, no BS, it was just time to move on.

Yes, these people are friendly, and some really become friends, but they also should be grown-up businesspeople.

[tanya_the_dancer]

Why are people so enthralled with their dancer dancers that they can't tell them that they want to move on, that it's not working, etc. It's a business, it's a business relationship. If a teacher can't/won't teach you what you want/need, you have every right -- and a responsibility to yourself -- to move on.

Just do it.

I had to once. Yes, it felt weird, but I just did it. I said to one of my old teachers that I was quitting Pro/Am to focus on amateur, and didn't want any more lessons, and that was that. Since we were both there, I took that one last lesson -- and it was actually a fun goodbye. We mostly danced, and it was very good. I am very thankful for everything he taught me, and we still see each other around and say "hi". He's even judged me and K. at a comp or two, no hard feelings, no BS, it was just time to move on.

Yes, these people are friendly, and some really become friends, but they also should be grown-up businesspeople.

Because what you're doing is basically firing a person. It is stressful in itself. I had to fire 2 nannies in the past for a reason, and it was extremely unpleasant.

[anp73ga31]

And some pros also take it personally. I know in the past when I have told my pro I was going to take some time off, whether it was a week or more, he would get this panicked look on his face and then look at me suspiciously as if I was thinking of "cheating" on him with another teacher. :rolleyes:

[SPratt74]

Because what you're doing is basically firing a person. It is stressful in itself. I had to fire 2 nannies in the past for a reason, and it was extremely unpleasant.

Yeah, but the way I see it is that it is my money. It's my call how I want to spend it. If I don't like their service... then that's it. I won't put any more money into their pockets.

[wooh]

Because what you're doing is basically firing a person. It is stressful in itself. I had to fire 2 nannies in the past for a reason, and it was extremely unpleasant.

That's a lot of it. Fear of change is another big part.

[Laura]

And some pros also take it personally. I know in the past when I have told my pro I was going to take some time off, whether it was a week or more, he would get this panicked look on his face and then look at me suspiciously as if I was thinking of "cheating" on him with another teacher. :rolleyes:
Just because the teacher is insecure, it doesn't mean the student has to buy in to their insecurities. A person doesn't massage the ego of their dentist or plumber, right? In fact, if my doctor or car mechanic was all insecure about their work, I'd start getting very suspicious of their abilities.

Every single one of my dance teachers over the years have told me that it's good for me to study with whoever I want, whenever I want, because the more information I get and the more angles and points of view I am exposed to, the more I will learn and grow. It's not "cheating" to take from another teacher.

[Laura]

Fear of change is another big part.
Now that is definitely a good point to ponder, especially if you are in one of those areas where there aren't a lot of teachers to choose from.

I recall there was someone on here, sorry that I forgot the name, who agonized for a while over going to a new teacher -- and after she got there she was so amazingly happy that she moved on, and gave us glowing reports of her great lessons and how much she was learning and understanding. So for her, the fear of change ended up being greatly outweighed by the benefits of the change.

[wooh]

I recall there was someone on here, sorry that I forgot the name, who agonized for a while over going to a new teacher -- and after she got there she was so amazingly happy that she moved on, and gave us glowing reports of her great lessons and how much she was learning and understanding. So for her, the fear of change ended up being greatly outweighed by the benefits of the change.

Moi?:) Although I don't think I shared a lot of my agonizing here.

[Laura]

No, I think it was someone else...the name is at the edge of my consciousness but I can't get it out!

[fascination]

yea...I am really grateful that pro is of the mind that feedback from all corners is good...he is great about that b/c he is confident in his own skills

[and123]

Moi?:) Although I don't think I shared a lot of my agonizing here.

Ditto. Definitely put off breaking away from my old instructor/studio, and after I finally did it, kicked myself for not doing it sooner.

[tanya_the_dancer]

Just because the teacher is insecure, it doesn't mean the student has to buy in to their insecurities. A person doesn't massage the ego of their dentist or plumber, right? In fact, if my doctor or car mechanic was all insecure about their work, I'd start getting very suspicious of their abilities.

Every single one of my dance teachers over the years have told me that it's good for me to study with whoever I want, whenever I want, because the more information I get and the more angles and points of view I am exposed to, the more I will learn and grow. It's not "cheating" to take from another teacher.

But I think their are different levels of business relationship, taking dance lessons doesn't really compare with fixing a car. Besides, if I am not happy with a mechanic, I just go somewhere else, I wouldn't even bother telling them that I am not going to bring my car over there again (unless I am there, completely po'ed and telling them what I really think in the heat of the moment). Business relationship when you work one-on-one on a regular basis is more close, whether you like it or not. And in such relationship, you cannot terminate it without telling the other person that you are doing so, and that confrontation (if you're firing the person for cause, so to speak) is an uncomfortable thing for most people I think.

[Laura]

I actually agree with you, Tanya, it's just from years of watching various people agonize about it on various dance boards, it seems to me that some people look at their relationship with their dance teacher the way that they might look at their relationship with their boyfriend. I've seen lots of talk about cheating, letting the person down, feeling guilty, etc etc. It's to those people that I give my words of advice: I hope that if they can realize that it is a business relationship, they will better be able to do what they need to do in order to get what they want for their hard-earned-cash when it comes to dancing.

[tanya_the_dancer]

I can understand feeling sorry for the other person part. I had this sort of thing, not with a dance teacher, but with a personal trainer. Here's the story. I trained with him (I'll call him P) for about a 18 months, once or twice a week. At one point he told me that he will be moving in about a year. At around the same time he broke his foot and was out of work for several months. During that time I was assigned another trainer who was actually better than P. When P came back, I had to go back to him. I thought about switching to the other guy at that time, but then yeah, I felt sorry for P. He lost several clients over that time, he only had a few months before he was moving, and I decided that since I will have opportunity to switch once he moves, I don't mind continuing working with him until then. Which was what I did.

[9dncr]

Why are people so enthralled with their dancer dancers that they can't tell them that they want to move on, that it's not working, etc. It's a business, it's a business relationship. If a teacher can't/won't teach you what you want/need, you have every right -- and a responsibility to yourself -- to move on.

Just do it.

I had to once. Yes, it felt weird, but I just did it. I said to one of my old teachers that I was quitting Pro/Am to focus on amateur, and didn't want any more lessons, and that was that. Since we were both there, I took that one last lesson -- and it was actually a fun goodbye. We mostly danced, and it was very good. I am very thankful for everything he taught me, and we still see each other around and say "hi". He's even judged me and K. at a comp or two, no hard feelings, no BS, it was just time to move on.

Yes, these people are friendly, and some really become friends, but they also should be grown-up businesspeople.


:cheers: Couldn't have said it better! After all you are teh one paying for the lessons!!!!!

[9dncr]

Back to How many lessons we take a week.

I have been dancing Pro- Am for 4 years now. I started taking 2 group classes a week and one private a week becuase I was so intent on learning all the dances right away.

Then I settled in competing and decided to focus on 9dances. I now do 2 private lessons a week- one in Rythm one in Smooth. I wish I could do more but I have to keep telling myself that I have to get the most quality out of the lessons I take so that I can have something to practice since time is of the essence!

[SPratt74]

But I think their are different levels of business relationship, taking dance lessons doesn't really compare with fixing a car. Besides, if I am not happy with a mechanic, I just go somewhere else, I wouldn't even bother telling them that I am not going to bring my car over there again (unless I am there, completely po'ed and telling them what I really think in the heat of the moment). Business relationship when you work one-on-one on a regular basis is more close, whether you like it or not. And in such relationship, you cannot terminate it without telling the other person that you are doing so, and that confrontation (if you're firing the person for cause, so to speak) is an uncomfortable thing for most people I think.

Now see the way that I see it is that you can terminate anything without telling a person. Whether that's a good idea for your particular situation or not is up to you, but still.... it's your life. They don't control you, and they don't need to know anything you don't want them to know. ;)

[anp73ga31]

I can understand feeling sorry for the other person part. I had this sort of thing, not with a dance teacher, but with a personal trainer. Here's the story. I trained with him (I'll call him P) for about a 18 months, once or twice a week. At one point he told me that he will be moving in about a year. At around the same time he broke his foot and was out of work for several months. During that time I was assigned another trainer who was actually better than P. When P came back, I had to go back to him. I thought about switching to the other guy at that time, but then yeah, I felt sorry for P. He lost several clients over that time, he only had a few months before he was moving, and I decided that since I will have opportunity to switch once he moves, I don't mind continuing working with him until then. Which was what I did.

perhaps we are too nice and overly sensitive towards other people's feelings. or that is what I have been told, anyway. ;) At any rate, I think its a learning thing. Once you have done it a couple of times I'm sure it gets easier. At least thats what I'm telling myself based on other experiences. I had no backbone as a teenager/young adult, but the older I get I have noticed it has grown quite a bit....apparently it still has alot of growing to do. lol! ;)

[anp73ga31]

Now see the way that I see it is that you can terminate anything without telling a person.

My sister has done that in both business and personal relationships and believe me it comes back to bite you in the butt tenfold. ;)

[SPratt74]

My sister has done that in both business and personal relationships and believe me it comes back to bite you in the butt tenfold. ;)

That's why I also said that you have to decide if it's good for you in that particular situation lol. ;) I have done it too, and it always comes back. But still... sometimes its just better to cut off ties and be done with whatever and to move on and to forget about it. :p

[DancinAnne]

But I think their are different levels of business relationship, taking dance lessons doesn't really compare with fixing a car. Besides, if I am not happy with a mechanic, I just go somewhere else, I wouldn't even bother telling them that I am not going to bring my car over there again (unless I am there, completely po'ed and telling them what I really think in the heat of the moment). Business relationship when you work one-on-one on a regular basis is more close, whether you like it or not. And in such relationship, you cannot terminate it without telling the other person that you are doing so, and that confrontation (if you're firing the person for cause, so to speak) is an uncomfortable thing for most people I think.

It is uncomfortable to 'fire' someone, that is depending on the reason why, but I do think under these circumstances (one-on-one on a regular basis) that it's thoughtful to let the person know that you are terminating. For whatever reason.

[DancinAnne]

My sister has done that in both business and personal relationships and believe me it comes back to bite you in the butt tenfold. ;)

It does tend to do that...

[anp73ga31]

That's why I also said that you have to decide if it's good for you in that particular situation lol. ;) I have done it too, and it always comes back. But still... sometimes its just better to cut off ties and be done with whatever and to move on and to forget about it. :p

Yeah, I suppose in certain situations running far, far away would be a very good thing. lol! In my case, though, I will see this person around at local competitions and showcases, plus he knows both the pros I am considering taking lessons from, and it will be awkward for both me and the other pros unless I handle it as delicately as possible. From what I have seen, pros are very careful about stepping on other pros toes (or the ones around here I have dealt with are, at least).

unhijack

[SPratt74]

Yeah, I suppose in certain situations running far, far away would be a very good thing. lol!

That's so funny! I love that lol! But I don't think I would run from your pro. He's a hottie lol! j/k ;)

In my case, though, I will see this person around at local competitions and showcases, plus he knows both the pros I am considering taking lessons from, and it will be awkward for both me and the other pros unless I handle it as delicately as possible. From what I have seen, pros are very careful about stepping on other pros toes (or the ones around here I have dealt with are, at least).

unhijack

Yeah that's true. What's weird is that you don't see these kinds of actions amongst other kinds of areas like retail etc. Why is it that dance instructors take things so personally? It is a business after all. Instructors really have no control over their students once the contracts run out (if they are on a contract that is), by which they don't have any control over their students if they aren't on contract, so the student can go wherever they choose. But still... what I don't get is that you don't even see this kind of behavior amongst contractors or anyone else you might hire. So, I know what you mean.

[tanya_the_dancer]

Yeah, I suppose in certain situations running far, far away would be a very good thing. lol! In my case, though, I will see this person around at local competitions and showcases, plus he knows both the pros I am considering taking lessons from, and it will be awkward for both me and the other pros unless I handle it as delicately as possible. From what I have seen, pros are very careful about stepping on other pros toes (or the ones around here I have dealt with are, at least).

unhijack

I think since dance scene is typically small compared to the rest of the population and you're bound to run into each other, unless you're relocating big time, you have to tell the pro that you don't want to take from him anymore. Otherwise, you're setting yourself up for a lot of potential embarrassment.

[SPratt74]

I think since dance scene is typically small compared to the rest of the population and you're bound to run into each other, unless you're relocating big time, you have to tell the pro that you don't want to take from him anymore. Otherwise, you're setting yourself up for a lot of potential embarrassment.

Yeah and remember that if they are hurt it's only because you are taking money out of their pocket. They know you are still in dance, and they would rather you spend money on them no matter how good or bad they are. But so what? It's your money and you decide what to do with it. You are only a customer to them. They've got their own friends and so do you etc. It's a business relationship... not a friendship relationship no matter how close you might think you are to them.

[anp73ga31]

You guys are totally right, of course. It all comes down to what is best for YOU. I will strive to remember that in the future! :cheers:

[DancinAnne]

Yeah and remember that if they are hurt it's only because you are taking money out of their pocket. They know you are still in dance, and they would rather you spend money on them no matter how good or bad they are. But so what? It's your money and you decide what to do with it. You are only a customer to them. They've got their own friends and so do you etc. It's a business relationship... not a friendship relationship no matter how close you might think you are to them.

Seems rather cynical to me. Like any other business, not all are in it just for the money. I'd like to think that I'm more than just $$ to the pros I work with. In fact, at the comp this last weekend, two of our regular coaches encouraged us to work with other pros that we don't get to see as often. Call me an optimist, but I'd like to think that most of the pros that we work with would just like to see us grow as dancers.

Here's an analogy... if you shop at a Walmart Supercenter, you can get just about everything, but that doesn't mean they'll always have everything you need. Likewise, no single teacher can give you everything that you need. And many teachers recognize this and are not afraid to recommend someone who may be able to help you in a different way.

[tanya_the_dancer]

Yeah and remember that if they are hurt it's only because you are taking money out of their pocket. They know you are still in dance, and they would rather you spend money on them no matter how good or bad they are. But so what? It's your money and you decide what to do with it. You are only a customer to them. They've got their own friends and so do you etc. It's a business relationship... not a friendship relationship no matter how close you might think you are to them.

I still think that when you work close with someone, even in a business situation, you develop a stronger bond. You're making it sound too impersonal, and IMO, it's not. Maybe it makes a difference how much you work with the person, too. If you're just taking 1 lesson a week vs. taking 4-5 a week plus competing together - it is probably easier to make a switch in the first situation.

[Laura]

I bet one spends more time with the people at their jobs than with their dance teachers. Yet, the vast majority of businesses that I've been in contact with have "at will" employment, which means they can let you go at any time -- and you can walk out at any time. If someone here wanted to leave their job, and had another one lined up that was better, would they agonize about their work friendships and how their boss would feel, or would they just tell everyone it is time to move on and do it?

I really think the physical closeness and the vaguely romantic aspects of ballroom dance training can make it seem like more is there than really is. No, it's not necessarily all about money -- but really, unless your teacher is inviting you over for dinner and you hang out and do non-dancing things socially together, I wouldn't consider him or her a "friend" by my personal definition of the word. In my way of thinking, they may be your "work friend" (or maybe I should say "hobby friend"), and you may feel fondly toward each other, but at the end of the day it's a business relationship and keeping that in mind can be a good thing for some people. I mean really, look at the number of times something like "Help, I'm falling in love with my dance teacher" crops up on boards like this....

I feel very very fortunate that I have formed a (by my definition) real true friendship with the woman who coached me when I was dancing amateur with K. She's a fantastic woman. Our social life together extends way beyond dancing.

Ask yourself this: Would your dance teacher come over on a Sunday afternoon to help you paint your bathroom? Then you've got a real friend there and yeah you should really consider what you are doing. But if not...well...it's a very good and satisfying work/hobby relationship.

I'm sure people will disagree with me, because there is no one hard and fast definition of friendship. And that's okay!

[tanya_the_dancer]

Laura, by that criteria (asking to help with something like bathroom painting) I have no friends at all. Seriously.

[DancinAnne]

I bet one spends more time with the people at their jobs than with their dance teachers. Yet, the vast majority of businesses that I've been in contact with have "at will" employment, which means they can let you go at any time -- and you can walk out at any time. If someone here wanted to leave their job, and had another one lined up that was better, would they agonize about their work friendships and how their boss would feel, or would they just tell everyone it is time to move on and do it?

I really think the physical closeness and the vaguely romantic aspects of ballroom dance training can make it seem like more is there than really is. No, it's not necessarily all about money -- but really, unless your teacher is inviting you over for dinner and you hang out and do non-dancing things socially together, I wouldn't consider him or her a "friend" by my personal definition of the word. In my way of thinking, they may be your "work friend" (or maybe I should say "hobby friend"), and you may feel fondly toward each other, but at the end of the day it's a business relationship and keeping that in mind can be a good thing for some people. I mean really, look at the number of times something like "Help, I'm falling in love with my dance teacher" crops up on boards like this....

I feel very very fortunate that I have formed a (by my definition) real true friendship with the woman who coached me when I was dancing amateur with K. She's a fantastic woman. Our social life together extends way beyond dancing.

Ask yourself this: Would your dance teacher come over on a Sunday afternoon to help you paint your bathroom? Then you've got a real friend there and yeah you should really consider what you are doing. But if not...well...it's a very good and satisfying work/hobby relationship.

I'm sure people will disagree with me, because there is no one hard and fast definition of friendship. And that's okay!

I don't disagree with anything you said... but I would actually, if leaving a job, give an explanation, prolly agonize a bit, and then move on. Depending on the length of time at said job, I might keep in touch with co-workers. I suppose it depends on the sitch, just as you said. Thus far I've had nothing but good experiences in the dance world, moving from coach to coach. :)

[DancinAnne]

Laura, by that criteria (asking to help with something like bathroom painting) I have no friends at all. Seriously.

:uplaugh: Surely you jest...

[tanya_the_dancer]

:uplaugh: Surely you jest...

No, not really. I have plenty of what Laura called hobby-friends or work-friends (and whom I refer to as my friends), but I don't have friendships which are that close. And I am not sure if I would like to have such relationship.

[SPratt74]

I still think that when you work close with someone, even in a business situation, you develop a stronger bond. You're making it sound too impersonal, and IMO, it's not. Maybe it makes a difference how much you work with the person, too. If you're just taking 1 lesson a week vs. taking 4-5 a week plus competing together - it is probably easier to make a switch in the first situation.

Well, it's still not easy to switch no matter how many lessons you take. But again... I'd say to focus on you. I guess with me is that I look at these people as business acquaintences more than anything. I've only kept in contact with one business associate that I worked with, but we also graduated college together. So, it was a different kind of relationship. Otherwise, nope... I tend not to go that way. I know enough in case I need references or whatever, but that's about it.

Now, when it comes to dance teachers, again... it's just a business. I wouldn't call them up to paint my bathroom (for I have to get mine done, but a professional is going to do it for me). I wouldn't even call them if I had to go to the E.R. It's not that kind of friendship. There are certain people in my life that would do anything for me, and those are people that are in neither of those categories.

And the way I see it is, would you feel guilty for not paying them to help you since you pay for them to teach you something else? What if you couldn't afford to pay them to help you with your bathroom? If you feel any kind of guilt, then it's probably more like a business relationship than anything else. And I just couldn't go that way, because I would feel as though I would have to pay them, but that's me though. Because again... I look at them more as a business acquaintence than anything else.

But it is how you look at things. I guess with me and the kind of experiences I've had made me learn how to look at people more closely if this makes sense. ;)

[fascination]

it's all grey...compounded by the differences btwn the way that men and women define friendship as well...I mean most folks in a marriage can see that women tend to define a greater amt of intimacy as ideal...lots of guys think they are being a friend by doing VERY little...best approach is to talk about it if in question IMO...I take alot of lessons..I have no delusions about that being an important finanacial IV to pro...I also know that his pride would allow him to say goodbye to me in an instant if I tried to abuse that...we are friends...not tied at the hip friends...and definately not stable nor romantic...just two people muddling through our lives together counting on each other and forgiving each other...he's made us dinner once...he's a really good cook...I don't really care whether it looks like a friendship or not...given the amount of time...it just is...even when we don't like each other...but if I felt that he no longer had the same sorts of goals for my dancing that I have...it would break my heart, but I would move on...mercifully, he does....as for the friendship part...we have very different ways of being friends...but we are, even when we aren't...BOT...we take as many lessons as I can afford and/or which we can emotionally sustain given both of our tenuous grasps on being in the mood...but hey, it's coming out pretty well...and we are content

[Laura]

It sounds like exactly the right relationship at exactly the right time for you, fascination, and in the end that is all that anyone can ask for.

Ditto for me and TS. He's a good guy, and has been brilliant for my dancing. I'm glad that I can learn from him, and that he can share this phase of his career with me.

[fascination]

lol...except that only, due to my own instability, I change my mind weekly...but I am learning to ignore myself and so is he...we are finding a way....I am really happy that you have found that in TS...you certainly deserve that....

[SPratt74]

No, not really. I have plenty of what Laura called hobby-friends or work-friends (and whom I refer to as my friends), but I don't have friendships which are that close. And I am not sure if I would like to have such relationship.

I'd help you paint your bathroom. I'm hiring a professional to do mine only because the whole house needs to get done. Otherwise, I have experience. I've painted two bedrooms, a bathroom, and part of the store I work at lol! I don't expect anything in return. Painting is relaxing to me... until you get high from the smell that is lol! ;)

[anp73ga31]

I bet one spends more time with the people at their jobs than with their dance teachers. Yet, the vast majority of businesses that I've been in contact with have "at will" employment, which means they can let you go at any time -- and you can walk out at any time. If someone here wanted to leave their job, and had another one lined up that was better, would they agonize about their work friendships and how their boss would feel, or would they just tell everyone it is time to move on and do it?

Actually, yes. (see, some of us are truly pathetic! :() I have a boss I've been with for 8 years now; she just bought out the business about 9 months ago and subsequently had to let our receptionist/scheduling clerk go when business became slow at the first of the year and she couldn't afford to pay the person. Now me and the other girl who is left are doing like 3 people's jobs (because we were short staffed even with the other lady there!). And the boss always talks about how we all have to work together to get thru this, and it will get better one day, and talks about loyalty, etc. And I'm sitting there thinking, I gave you 8 years! I dont owe you this; I'm miserable trying to do 3 people's jobs for the same pay(no raise for us this year!) while you try to pretend everything is hunky-dory...when all I would have to do is get a job with a bigger atty office in the city and make 10 thou a year more with alot less stress because I'd be doing my job and no one else's! Once I've finished moving and have gotten rid of that stress(gotta take one thing at a time here), I'm going after a new job. But, yes, I do feel guilty about it. And I know she's going to have hard feelings about it, and that she'll think I'm terrible for abandoning her after all these years, etc, which makes me feel more guilty about it. But like the dance teacher thing, it has to be done.

Incidentally, i CAN see where you are coming from in all this. And I totally wish I was like you and could do these things without feeling guilt about it at all, but I'm just not made that way (I'm a total wus; I admit it, lol!). ;)

[wooh]

I actually currently need to do a lot of touching up to the paint in my bathroom. :)

[anp73ga31]

No, not really. I have plenty of what Laura called hobby-friends or work-friends (and whom I refer to as my friends), but I don't have friendships which are that close. And I am not sure if I would like to have such relationship.

Dont feel bad, you arent missing much IMO. I have one work friend, who I do nothing outside of work with and who would probably be better defined as an acquaintance. I have had two best friends over the years but they left me for boyfriends/husbands...why cant girls figure out they can have both friends AND a man?! Now I have a married couple as my close friends (maybe that will work better!), although we dont do much outside of dance. I've never had a group of friends, but then again, I'm not a group sort of person...too many people to try to keep happy (can you see a theme here?)...

[SPratt74]

Actually, yes. (see, some of us are truly pathetic! :() I have a boss I've been with for 8 years now; she just bought out the business about 9 months ago and subsequently had to let our receptionist/scheduling clerk go when business became slow at the first of the year and she couldn't afford to pay the person. Now me and the other girl who is left are doing like 3 people's jobs (because we were short staffed even with the other lady there!). And the boss always talks about how we all have to work together to get thru this, and it will get better one day, and talks about loyalty, etc. And I'm sitting there thinking, I gave you 8 years! I dont owe you this; I'm miserable trying to do 3 people's jobs for the same pay(no raise for us this year!) while you try to pretend everything is hunky-dory...when all I would have to do is get a job with a bigger atty office in the city and make 10 thou a year more with alot less stress because I'd be doing my job and no one else's! Once I've finished moving and have gotten rid of that stress(gotta take one thing at a time here), I'm going after a new job. But, yes, I do feel guilty about it. And I know she's going to have hard feelings about it, and that she'll think I'm terrible for abandoning her after all these years, etc, which makes me feel more guilty about it. But like the dance teacher thing, it has to be done.

Incidentally, i CAN see where you are coming from in all this. And I totally wish I was like you and could do these things without feeling guilt about it at all, but I'm just not made that way (I'm a total wus; I admit it, lol!). ;)

I was in a similar situation with the college. My boss was loading loads of work on me, and I just couldn't do it any more. And then one day he said where work comes first and family comes second etc. Well, that did it for me. I am a family person. My work is not my home life I'm sorry. So, I ended up leaving after four years of being loyal. I don't think down about him at all, but I am still furious that he said that. I know he looked at me as his daughter as well as another girl, but he was not my father. I couldn't do it any more, so I put in my resignation.

To me... sometimes being close with bosses is toooo close for me. There are certain people that I am loyal to, but they do not include my bosses nor my teachers. And as far as dance teachers come, I don't owe them anything except what I pay for my lessons. And yeah... I've been through a lot, but to me... in the end... they are just teachers. I pay and think of them like how I pay my college teachers. I don't care for that kind of closeness. I'm not saying that I think down about my teacher or anything like that. I do care about him, but still... you can care about a person without it turning into this whole hoopla of an ordeal.

And there have been other times when I have been loyal only to find out they weren't being loyal to me. They were just putting on an act for whatever the reason. Mostly it was to get money. Its funny how loyal people can be when money is involved, and how all of the sudden things change when money isn't going into their pockets. But mostly I have found this out over the years through my personal experiences. Others may think differently if they've had better experiences than me. I just don't trust people when an exchange of money is involved (not meaning family etc.). Sorry. That's just me. ;)

[Laura]

There's a saying that goes around the techie community where I live: you can love your job, but your job won't love you back. I guess because I worked for 13 years in a field where loyalty (going in both directions) meant nothing, it's easier for me to look at the student-teacher relationship in dancing the way I do. And also because I've just seen so many people over the years post about how their teacher isn't giving them what they need, and how there's this other teacher they could go to who is so much better, but they are afraid/loyal/don't want to hurt someone's feelings by moving on. Why spend money if don't feel like you're getting your money's worth?

When I told my old Pro/Am teacher that I was quitting to concentrate on dancing amateur with K., I wasn't cavalier about it. It did make me feel a little sad and shaky. But those feelings lasted for about a day before I told him and a couple of hours afterwards. It wasn't bad enough to spend days or weeks wondering if I should move on....

[fascination]

in any area...if you keep bumping your head up against something you don't like and you do nothing about it ...you really have to accept that you have chosen the predicament...yes some might justify staying in certain situations due to percieved lack of other good alternatives...but to stay in a situation that is untenable...you had better alter your expectations or prepare to be frustrated...it is virtual insanity to continue to expect things from people that you know aren't going to happen...and the agony at that point isn't even their fault any longer...there are exceptions...but not so many...so, where the two directions of this thread converge; if one desires to take more privates than one's pro is willing or able to commit to, one can either; 1)come to acceptance, 2) add-a-pro, 3) get a new pro, 4) issue an ultimatum and mean it, or 5) b*tch and whine incessantly or be made to feel unreasonable by said person who is too set in their way to change...

as for the initial question...I am curious as to why it was asked...IIRC it was b/c the OP wanted some idea of what would be a good plan for progress...and that I think has far too many variables for there to be anything that nears a pat answer...but it certainly is a good question and I hope the range of answers reinforces the acceptability of a number of paths

[DancinAnne]

in any area...if you keep bumping your head up against something you don't like and you do nothing about it ...you really have to accept that you have chosen the predicament...yes some might justify staying in certain situations due to percieved lack of other good alternatives...but to stay in a situation that is intenable...you had better alter your expectations or prepare to be frustrated...it is virtual insanity to continue to expect things from people that you know aren't going to happen...and the agony at that point isn't even their fault any longer...there are exceptions...but not so many...so, where the two directions of this thread converge; if one desires to take more privates than one's pro is willing or able to commit to, one can either; 1)come to acceptance, 2) add-a-pro, 3) get a new pro, 4) issue an ultimatrum and mean it, or 5) b*tch and whine incessantly or be made to feel unreasonable by said person who is too set in their way to change...

as for the initial question...I am curious as to why it was asked...IIRC it was b/c the OP wanted some idea of what would be a good plan for progress...and that I think has far too many variables for there to be anything that nears a pat answer...but it certainly is a good question and I hope the range of answers reinforces the acceptability of a number of paths

Well said...you are a beautiful voice of reason. Would love to meet you someday, F.

[DancinAnne]

I actually currently need to do a lot of touching up to the paint in my bathroom. :)

As soon as I decide on a color... I'll be painting my bathroom... leaning towards a yellow/goldish with perhaps some fun finish... hmmmm. I wonder who I could invite over to help? Tanya? I'll help you, if you'll help me...;):)

[tanya_the_dancer]

As soon as I decide on a color... I'll be painting my bathroom... leaning towards a yellow/goldish with perhaps some fun finish... hmmmm. I wonder who I could invite over to help? Tanya? I'll help you, if you'll help me...;):)

:) Maybe someday I'll get around to remodel my bathroom. I think I'll hire someone for the job, though. But that's a subject for another thread.

[fascination]

Well said...you are a beautiful voice of reason. Would love to meet you someday, F.that is so sweet...thanks...I am not hard to track down btw...pm me if you want my comp schedule...hug

[SPratt74]

:) Maybe someday I'll get around to remodel my bathroom. I think I'll hire someone for the job, though. But that's a subject for another thread.

Yeah sorry to get off the original post, but it was Laura that brought up the bathroom subject lol!!! Just kidding Laura. ;)

But anyways, this thread has kind of gone off in three different ways lol. As far as the OP was concerned, it's basically what you can afford amongst other issues as in time and convenience etc. I vary at different times depending upon my circumstances at that time etc., and I think most people will agree with me on that one. There is no reason to feel bad about it as long as you are doing something that you love. ;)