Importing Dance Pros

[pygmalion]

I was just on a ( DF competitor :shock: :lol: ) dance web site, and found an ad for one of the major franchise studios. It said "Want to teach dance in America..." and so on.

That made me think about ballroom in America versus the rest of the world. Is this a trend to watch? International competitors or dance pros coming to America? Why? Any interesting implications or observations?

[SDsalsaguy]

Is this a trend to watch? International competitors or dance pros coming to America? Why? Any interesting implications or observations?
This very phenomenon has been entirely reshaping the American dance scene, especially in the in the international styles (but not only!) for several years now. Half of the New York/New Jersey dance scene now seems to be Russian/Ukrainian/Eastern European, and the U.S. finals, especially at the pro level, are filled with those who have moved to the U.S. to dance.

At the level you seem to be talking about though, many studios, franchise and otherwise, have been importing teachers for some time as well. The years of training and technical know how of the average international dancer were years ahead of what we had here (please note that I said average – obviously there were top notch dancers here in the U.S. as well) but who appreciated the financial and lifestyle opportunities available to them in the U.S. While I think the dancing landscape in the U.S. is quite different today than it was 10, or even 5, years ago, prior to that there were fewer top-notch coaches and competitors in America. Also keep in mind the ages at which many/most non-U.S. dancers tend to start dancing vs. what has been typical of American dancers . . . certainly one of many factors involved in the various dynamics mentioned above.

[DancingMommy]

That made me think about ballroom in America versus the rest of the world. Is this a trend to watch? International competitors or dance pros coming to America? Why? Any interesting implications or observations?

Well, you know who our coach is... He's been in America for 20 years or so. He was also a junior finalist at Blackpool... His sister started dancing at age 4.... AND he can dance circles around *most* (if not all) of the pros here locally...

Did his early start in GB have anything to do with that? Most likely.

The one implication I can see is that the "bar" has been raised as far as competing - pro/am, am and pro.

Interestingly enough, in GB, the concept of pro/am competition does not exist per se. I believe the only time a pro dances with a student is in medal examinations (as far as I recall). That may have changed of late, but that is the last I heard on that.

Also, International "imports" have a different take/slant on dancing that Americans have as a general rule. Discipline is greater (IMNSHO)...

Gotta run - The Mom Show is on....

PM me about taking our spot with him if you'd like...

[pygmalion]

Yes. I had observed the difference in discipline levels, too. I wonder if it's because Americans usually start as adults and mostly do social dance. In Europe and other parts of the world, there seems to be much more focus on competition and medals.

And yes, thanks, I will definitely PM you. I've seen your coach dance in a competition. He's gorgeous. Oh yeah, and he dances beautifully too. Just kidding. :lol: :lol: If he's a strict coach too, that will be perfect to help me reach my goals for the year. Thanks. You're tops.

[DancingMommy]

No sweat, dudette!

He is so FAB! And YES strict too.... One of the strictest - no make that THE strictest coach I've ever had...

But then my coach list includes these as well:

Bob Long
Shirley Johnson
Eddie Ares
Edward Mueller
Gary Stephans
Raphael Cologne
Ana Llorente
Ron Pack
Melanie Sandvig

[pygmalion]

I was also wondering whether the dance pro exchange is going in the other direction, i.e. are American dance pros having success in European and other countries? And what effect, if any, is the influx of dance pros from overseas having on the American ballroom scene?

[pygmalion]

Here's yet another article about the influence of Russian Emigres on American ballroom dance.

Posted on Fri, Mar. 12, 2004





American ballroom dance gets big lift from Soviet emigres

BY KATHLEEN MEGAN

The Hartford Courant


HARTFORD, Conn. - (KRT) - Vadim Asmolov is gliding with Esther McNany around the dance floor in a smooth fox trot, when suddenly he stops.

"Where's your weight?'' he asks her.

"On both feet,'' she answers her teacher.

"No, no,'' he tells her. "With ballroom dancing, your weight has to be on one foot or the other.''

Off they go again, with Asmolov - a former St. Petersburg, Russia, champion of fox trot, tango, waltz and other dances - calling out, "Right, right, right, left, left, left, right ..."

Who would have thought that the fall of the Soviet empire in the early '90s would be good news for American ballroom dancing?

It's not the sort of effect that historians would give much notice to, but ballroom devotees say an influx of ex-Soviet ballroom dancers in the past decade has raised the standards of American ballroom dance dramatically.

Just ask McNany, who has been taking lessons for six months from Asmolov (who immigrated from Russia three years ago) and is already entering her first competition this month. She attributes her progress in no small part to Asmolov's no-nonsense, expert teaching style at the Fred Astaire studio in West Hartford.

"With my Asian background, I know where he's coming from,'' McNany said. "Do it again and again and again until you get it right.''

"She hates me, she hates me, but she loves me,'' Asmolov smiles. He says he adjusts his teaching style to the student. McNany is one of his more dedicated students.

Jack Rothweiler, president and chief executive officer of Fred Astaire Dance Studios Inc., based in Longmeadow, Mass., said the Russians have "zipped our dance standards along'' in the last decade at about three times the speed of the past.

"They are more serious in approach to almost anything they do in sport,'' Rothweiler said. "That's the way they achieve success.''

Along with Asmolov, Alexie Lovkin, who came to the United States from Ukraine in 1992, is also teaching at the Fred Astaire studio in West Hartford.

Immigrants from the former Soviet Union now own 10 of the 31 Fred Astaire dance franchises in New York, New Jersey and New England. And there are about 75 ex-Soviets who teach in the 90 other Astaire studios around the country.

The greatest influx of ballroom experts from the former Soviet Union has been to New York and New Jersey, where dancing schools run by these teachers are filled with the children of immigrants from there and Eastern Europe. In Connecticut, too, the former Soviets have arrived, whether as teachers, such as Asmolov and Lovkin, or as competitors and performers.

In Bridgeport, Conn., Bob Beslove, a longtime competitive dancer, often invites dancers from the former Soviet Union to put on demonstrations at his monthly dance event, called Premier Ballroom Dance of Connecticut at Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Church.

"The Russians are a phenomenon,'' said Beslove, who has received training from various Russian coaches. "They know all the tricks.''

Yang Chen, president of the Greater New York Chapter of the U.S. Amateur Ballroom Dancing Association, said he first began to experience the impact of these dancing schools in the '90s, when he was organizing the association's Manhattan Amateur Classic. At that point, he said, the contest would run a junior competition that would take about two hours. In 1997, suddenly they had such a huge number of junior entries, the junior competition went almost all day.

"It has definitely raised the bar,'' said Chen, who noted that some of these juniors have gone on to success in international competition. "Even 10 years ago, to even imagine a U.S. couple would make it to the semifinals on the world stage was unheard of.''

Among the U.S. stars with Soviet roots are Eugene Katsevman and Maria Manusova, both born in Ukraine, Chen said, but raised and trained in Brooklyn. They are now among the world champions in the Latin dance competition.

Victor Kanevsky, who trained Katsevman and Manusova, opened the first dancing school in Brooklyn, called The Kaiser, which catered to the children ofimmigrants from the former Soviet Union. Kanevsky, himself a champion ballroom dancer and an immigrant fromUkraine 26 years ago, said he had Eastern European immigrant parents coming to him and asking him to open a school for their children.

From that school have come many of the current national and world champions.

Such success, Kanevsky said, has "completely revolutionized the way that people look at ballroom dancing. Now American kids, when they look at ballroom dancing, see more than their mom and pop. They look at young, attractive, athletic, exciting people and very dedicated, very disciplined."

"It used to be England, Germany, Holland, Italy,'' Kanevsky said. "Lately it's been absolutely dominated by the Russians and the Americans.''

Just watching Russian-trained dancers has raised the standard of dancing, said Chen. "It helps to see good dancing, what looks good, what looks right.''

So why are so many dancers from the former Soviet Union so good?

According to Lovkin and Asmolov, it's because they began their study of ballroom dancing as young as ages 3 and 4 and bring to it the same type of intensity and competitiveness that Russians bring to all sports.

Teachers in the former Soviet Union tend to be more straightforward and demanding of kids, Lovkin said. "Here, you don't say, 'You're wrong. You messed up.' You encourage people to get better instead of fixing it right there on the spot. It's takes longer, but I think people come out happier.''

Asmolov said, "In Russia, everything's about competition.''

"You've got to be better than the kid next to you,'' Lovkin said.

Both were in ballroom dancing classes where, as Lovkin said, "If you don't get ahead, you get left behind.''

Kim Haidinger, regional director for the Fred Astaire studios, said that, in general, it is far easier to find a proficient ballroom dancer from Europe than in the United States.

"You rarely will find an American who is good at ballroom dancing,'' she said.

For most Americans, ballroom dancing lessons aren't something they ever consider until perhaps they are getting married. It is almost impossible to get young boys to do ballroom dancing.

Lovkin said that boys in the Soviet Union would probably rather play sports than dance, but once they get into ballroom dancing, they enjoy it. The difference is that ballroom dancing is an accepted activity for boys in Eastern Europe. Here, he said, it isn't, and boys might be teased about it.

"Ballroom is so big in Russia,'' Asmolov said. "It's like soccer; it's addictive.''

For Esther McNany, ballroom dancing has indeed been addictive. She dances several days a week and says she appreciates the highly skilled teaching of Asmolov, Lovkin and other teachers at the studio.

"I always say: Unless you push, you don't know how far you can go,'' said McNany.

---

© 2004, The Hartford Courant.

Visit The Hartford Courant on the World Wide Web at http://www.ctnow.com

Distributed by Knight Ridder/Tribune Information Services.

[Larinda McRaven]

I was rather sad when this article came out. I was dissappointed that I had been interviewed, but my whole viewpoint did not seem to gel with what Kathy Meegan had wanted to portray, and therefore was not used.

"" "You rarely will find an American who is good at ballroom dancing,'' she said. ""

poppykosh

[Porfirio Landeros]

Imports have always been important in the development of the U.S. ballroom dance scene.

My original instructor literally witnessed International Style being brought to the U.S. He was an advanced student, and got to be one of the first students of many of the International Style ambassadors (it was English style, at the time). They didn't even have a Latin program back then!

I think the difference between then and now, is there was more mentoring of the U.S. dancers, whereas now, it appears that people are coming (or being brought) just for the purpose of getting championship titles.

I wish there was more of a mentoring program, where the foreigners were brought over to fill a coaching capacity, rather than instanly becoming "our" competition.

[Kitty]

I was rather sad when this article came out. I was dissappointed that I had been interviewed, but my whole viewpoint did not seem to gel with what Kathy Meegan had wanted to portray, and therefore was not used.

"" "You rarely will find an American who is good at ballroom dancing,'' she said. ""

poppykosh

What was your opinion that was missed out from the article?

[pygmalion]

Anybody who makes general statements dissing whole groups of dancers is not only wrong, just on general principle, but pretty arrogant as well, IMHO. Of course there are good American dancers. Sheesh.

[GalacticDancer44M]

Curious to hear your viewpoint too Larinda. I assume you're from Russia. I do have a Russian instructor and I find myself most comfortable with her, but dance with a few American instructors as well. Hard to say if I can tell if one is a better dancer than the other, they all have different strengths. But, I do admire my Russian instructor's style and strictness. I must confess that I dated a Russian woman beforehand and this was in her nature too, although she was not a dancer :(

[Larinda McRaven]

Actually I have pure Irish blood, but was born and raised in Missouri. I moved to Connecticut 10 years ago for a teaching job at a local studio.

Kathy Meegan simply was trying to follow up on an article that came out in NY recently abut the Russian Invasion in the NY ballroom scene. My information was simply that there are relativley few Russians in CT actually. And that it doesn't matter if the "imports" are Russian or Italian or whatever.

What matters is that the US, being a continent all alone over here, often develops artistic skills and ideas that are drastically different than the rest of the world (Hollywood, Broadway...American Smooth and Rhythm). But we tend to lag in the ideas and information that flows so freely across Europe and Asia. As the rest of the world started to pour in they brought this vital info. It simply happens that the Italians have a great country with a decent economy, so there is very little need for the masses of them to come here looking for jobs. But Russia is anther story...we now have thousands of them here.

In addition to that, many of the imports that come here for teachng positions, were not teachers in their native country. On guy I know drove a bus for minimum wage for the past 11 years. He now charges over $90 an hour for 45 minute lessons. Some of them haven't even danced since their teens as amatuers. So the whole "teaching and imparting knowlege" can be rather difficult for them.

I was coaching at a studio down in Florida and working with a Russian teacher and his students. Everytime I said anything the teacher was amazed at what I said and the students were floored to hear what I was saying. They all (himself included)told me that he never broke anything down for them. He just danced with them and described a little bit here and there. My realization was that he, himself, did not even know what the lady does to get into closed position (or anything else). The girls he grew up dancing with simply put themslves into the right spot and off they went. But he now had no words to tell his students. All he could tell them was "press on my chest and stay back in my hand". That was the depth of his teaching information, even though he was a rather good dancer. I see this ALL THE TIME as a teacher and competitor on the east coast.

I did agree that the Russians bring a great work ethic with them and a great appreciation for the arts. And often a substandard "teacher" will rise to the challenge because it is usually sink or swim in this industry. And also the Russian children I have taught were no better than the American children I have taught. What is different is usually the parents attitude. Russian parents want me to teach. American parents was me to keep the kid happy and make them have fun. When it is no longer fun the parents and the child leave to enjoy any of the other hundreds of activities that are available to our youth. The Russian parents tell the kids stop whining and listen to the teacher.

The quote about Americans not being as good as Russians was a bit of a personal dig (I felt). Steve used to work for Freds and this lady, who then fired him for choosing to dance with me, when I was from a neighboring and competing studio. She has always had a bee in her bonnet regarding our success and will spare no opportnity to knock us. Funny thing is I gave the reporter this lady's studio phone number to include her in the interview since I knew that that particular studio had two of the very few Russians teachers in Connecticut working there. So much for professional support among peers.

All in all my point was just that the sheer number of Russian immigrants (due to politics and economics) makes it possible to appear that they better. Realistically when thousands of them come over, some of them are bound to be good. But it could have been any culture. We actually have only had coachings from one Russian, but we have had plenty from Irish, Scottish, Italian, English, Danish, American, German, and to say that Russians are simply better is simply racist.

But I can see how that did not fit in with the story she wanted to write...

[Genesius Redux]

I was rather sad when this article came out. I was dissappointed that I had been interviewed, but my whole viewpoint did not seem to gel with what Kathy Meegan had wanted to portray, and therefore was not used.

"" "You rarely will find an American who is good at ballroom dancing,'' she said. ""

poppykosh

She's a reporter. You expect truth? :shock:

[Taita]

My 2 cents....

Ok, I've been avoiding this one since I know most of the people mentioned in the article. All in all, I'd say it was a positive writeup in the Hartford Courant. The theme ('American ballroom dance gets a big lift from Soviet emigres') is mostly accurate (I'd probably say 'Russian' or 'Eastern European', but I digress). Russians have made a tremendous impact on the American ballroom scene. What's interesting to me is the way she supports her thesis.

You almost have to speak Russian in order to make your way through the ballroom dance scene in NY/NJ (I'm not sure about Boston). Like Larinda mentioned before, there are very few Russians in the Connecticut dance scene (I think I can count the number of CT Russian pros I know using one hand). Yes, there are many Russians who dance ballroom, yes, they have had a tremendous impact. No, they are not based in Connecticut.

It's too bad Larinda was not quoted in the article as she and Steven are very well established professionals that are based in CT that shouldn't have been ignored (especially since the article was written for a CT newspaper! :shock: ).

...back to lurk mode...

[GalacticDancer44M]

Very inciteful look inside the Ballroom Dance world Larinda. After seeing your link and your credentials (impressive to say the least!) I'm sure you have as much knowledge about the subject as anyone. I've only been into Ballroom Dancing for a little over a year, so I'm pretty naive about it. But, one of the joys I find in it is meeting people from all over the world. Truely is remarkable. Music and dance seems to bring people of all cultures together.

Hopefully, as I progress in dancing, I'd like to visit some dance clubs abroad and be able to dance along with different people. Sure makes traveling more interesting. But, so far I'm learning American Standard. Do many dancers outside the USA learn American or should I learn International before even thinking about dancing outside the US?

I wish I was in CT to take some lessons from you!

[SDsalsaguy]

American Standard??? :shock:

Ummm, do you mean American Smooth or International Standard GD?

As far as outside of North America it is not at all common to find people familiar with either Smooth or Rhythm... definately go with International if you want to use it overseas.

[GalacticDancer44M]

Thanks for the correction SDsalsaguy. See I told you I was pretty naive. Looks like I'll have lots of dance lessons to learn!

[Larinda McRaven]

But, one of the joys I find in it is meeting people from all over the world. Truely is remarkable. Music and dance seems to bring people of all cultures together.

Yup, actually Steve and I always say that our favorite thing we enjoy about our job is that we have gotten to make so many wonderful friends all over this country and from around the world. I joke sometimes and say "If my car broke down in CT I am not sure I would have anyone to call to come pick me up, but I could call 10 people in LA!

Dancing is great for bringing people together.

[D-spot]

American Standard??? :shock:

Ummm, do you mean American Smooth or International Standard GD?

As far as outside of North America it is not at all common to find people familiar with either Smooth or Rhythm... definately go with International if you want to use it overseas.

Canada is a very large part of the North American continent. Of the many ballroom clubs (differentiating from studios) in the Toronto area NONE have a significant American Style attendance except on the occassion that studios have an outing.
My experience in Vancouver and Montreal also supports this.
In the Toronto area, it would be useful to know one of the Eastern European languages as there are many highly skilled teachers who are not fluent in Canadian/American or English (and I like to understand what they want me to do and I ask a lot of questions).
D-spot
(now living on the North American continent, but not in the United States).

[SDsalsaguy]

Point taken D...

I guess I was just thinking about the past couple of years when I was up in Toronto for the CAn-Am and there were any number of American style contestants from Canadian studios... certainly more than there would be anywhere else except the U.S.A.

[D-spot]

I think the American influence is so strong mainly due to the approach to marketing/sales being done for AS through FADS and AM.
As far as I am aware, there are very few AS studios outside the NA continent. Examples have been given as one in Ireland, or one here nd one there. But a handful.

WRT the Can-Am (cancelled this year leaving the Crystal Leaf as the main one at this time of year), it's a great opportunity for the pro to sell to the am. Hence there is proportionately more visible interest in AS than there is in comparison to actual numbers of dancers publically dancing in AS/IS.

D-spot.

[Kitty]

pygmalion,
to make my point clear I'll comment on this Larinda's post (which I wanted to do for a long time).

it doesn't matter if the "imports" are Russian or Italian or whatever.

completely agree with this one, I think it is an important point missed out in the article.

What matters is that the US, being a continent all alone over here, often develops artistic skills and ideas that are drastically different than the rest of the world (Hollywood, Broadway...American Smooth and Rhythm). But we tend to lag in the ideas and information that flows so freely across Europe and Asia. As the rest of the world started to pour in they brought this vital info.

agree also. It doesn't matter whether coach is Italian or Russian, but it does matter whether coach is Aerican or not. American coaches are more often interested in creativity, enthusiasm, making stuff up, choreographing things that can't be classified as a ballroom dance and so on. I think newcomer students of an American teacher would be more likely to get on a dance floor and make stuff up, because they are less drilled with "keep your knees straight" and "you can't do this." This is true for academic disciplines also. I don't mean that Russians are not creative, but it is usually only accomplished dancers who make stuff up.
In general, so much new stuff comes from non-Europe ( I don't want to say "US"): slow waltz, foxtrot, peabody, rumba, cha-cha, mambo, tango, samba, swing and lindy... jazz music, much of rock music... Things that masses of people develop, popular art, like social dance, social music, thrive! However, the arts that require tradition and long training, like architecture and ballet, are doing better in Europe.

It simply happens that the Italians have a great country with a decent economy, so there is very little need for the masses of them to come here looking for jobs. But Russia is anther story...we now have thousands of them here.


I disagree with this completely! Russian economy is doing very well now. Better than Italian actually. If you want to argue about it, I'm willing to give you the data. I'll just say that Russian GDP grew 33% between years 2000 and 2002 (that's twice as much as Italian economy grew during same period). Since 2002, I think, Russia is largest oil exporter in the world, and I've heard that according to one study the number of mercedes cars in Russia is higher than in Germany.
It upsets me that US news programs cover whats happening in the world so little, that people still have impressions of Russian economy as it was in the beginning of 1990s. Things have changed (think about 33% growth!)

The reason why more Russians are here in Ballroom industry is because Russia has a great overproduction of professionals in few areas: dancing (including ballet and ballroom) music (pianists, violinists, godd ones, many of them) and engineers/scientists. Both high quality dancers and musicians are due to system of subsidized training for children that want to do it (like 3 private music lessons a week + music theory lesson + music literature lesson + choir and orchestra while parents pay only $15 a month, similar systems exist for dancing). And overproduction of scientists and enginners is due to historical reasons: most spots in universities in Russia today (and in USSR back then), are for engineers and scientists. So it is not that Russia is poor, it is that for the number of professionals, number of jobs is not sufficient (for Ballroom especially because social Ballroom and wedding dances don't exist, so number of jobs is much more limited than here).

[Warren J. Dew]

But he now had no words to tell his students. All he could tell them was "press on my chest and stay back in my hand". That was the depth of his teaching information, even though he was a rather good dancer. I see this ALL THE TIME as a teacher and competitor on the east coast.
Of course, the vast majority of these immigrant pros are primarily teaching pro-am, for which being a good dancer goes a long way; a student, especially a lady student, can learn a lot just by dancing with a significantly better instructor.

Uh, I have a question for Galactic: what made you assume that Larinda was Russian?

[pygmalion]

Just curious. (This is a question for anyone, not just Warren)

Why does being a good dancer go a long way with pro-am? What goes a long way with pros coaching pros? Pros coaching amateur competitors? Is it different than pro-am? How?

(I'm not asking to be difficult. I'm looking for an amateur partner and a Latin coach, so I really want to know.)

[GalacticDancer44M]

Bad assumption on my part, I just was thinking that she may have been Russian because they interviewed her and I thought maybe Larinda was a Russian name because I hadn't heard it before. (Pretty name BTW).

[Kitty]

Bad assumption on my part, I just was thinking that she may have been Russian because they interviewed her and I thought maybe Larinda was a Russian name because I hadn't heard it before. (Pretty name BTW).

no, it is not a Russian name.

[GalacticDancer44M]

Excuse my ignorance, I'm sorry.

[Larinda McRaven]

It simply happens that the Italians have a great country with a decent economy, so there is very little need for the masses of them to come here looking for jobs. But Russia is anther story...we now have thousands of them here.


I disagree with this completely! Russian economy is doing very well now.

point well taken...I am sorry, I haven't payed too much to world economics lately.


...I thought maybe Larinda was a Russian name because I hadn't heard it before. (Pretty name BTW).

thanks

[Throwaway Overshare]

The game is up tovarish Mikravena. We know you are KGB sabateur. You cannot corrupt patriotic American Style with pinko international influences any more. Soon decadent capitalist pro-am will be even in Kremlin palace theater!!!

[Warren J. Dew]

Why does being a good dancer go a long way with pro-am? What goes a long way with pros coaching pros? Pros coaching amateur competitors? Is it different than pro-am? How?
Well, in pro-am the student spends a lot of time dancing with the instructor, and given that ballroom is a physical activity, one can absorb a lot kinesthetically without a word being exchanged. This is especially true in Standard.

But I do agree with Larinda that it's even better if the instructor can also explain verbally, since sometimes it's useful for the student to know what he or she is doing, in addition to being able to do it. This is particularly true if the student is planning on dancing with people other than the instructor.

For an amateur couple, the bulk of the teaching takes place through explanation - knowing what it feels like with the instructor is not going to to help nearly as much, since one's partner is going to feel different from the instructor.